Open Mike 11/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 11th, 2017 - 100 comments
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100 comments on “Open Mike 11/09/2017”

  1. tc 1

    Making a difference starts today with early voting commencing.

    • Cinny 1.1

      YEAH ROCK ON!!!! Meet up with our amazing local MP and fellow labour supporters this morning, waving signs on the main road, heaps of toots and waves, my youngest had a blast. A great way to start the day.

      Taking the kids to vote once school is finished, family tradition, mum would always take me to the voting booth so I could see democracy in action 😀

      • DSpare 1.1.1

        I will be going into town tomorrow with my daughter anyway and will vote then (as it’s a couple of ks to the nearest voting place). Which leaves me free for scrutineering on the day (a boring but necessary part of our democracy). Green Party, Labour Electorate, vote.
        I had my voting pack come on the weekend, so have my easyvote card (though the perforations were really meagre, and I had to use scissors to get it off the page). For those who haven’t registered yet (which you can do at the time during the advance period, but not on the 23rd), and so didn’t get the printed copy of polling places; this will tall you where your local advance polling stations are:

        http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2017-general-election/information-voters-who-when-and-where

  2. aom 2

    Never listened to ZB in 40 odd years but have seen references to Larry ‘ fuckwit’ Williams. After hooking into ZB for the Jacinda interview, I now understand!!!! Not sure if it was deliberate but it seemed as though at one stage Jacinda was giving him the two fingered salute – if on purpose, it was much deserved, if not, it was deserved anyway.

  3. Hanswurst 3

    Barry Soper muses on the last time a NZ prime minister was elected on the “sheer force of their personality”. It would appear, however, that he has not visited NZ since 2008. Either that, or he is in accord with all thinking New Zealanders that there was no force whatsoever to Key’s personality.

    • Timbeau 3.1

      Nicely put, Hanswurst.

    • tracey 3.2

      He is one of the Key cheerleaders that thinks Key was pure talent

    • Frida 3.3

      That attitude of Soper et al has been infuriating me the last weeks! As if we haven’t had personality politics for the last 9 years!! I doubt that a vast chunk of people who voted National in the last three elections could name a single policy. except tax cuts….grrr. I find it quite a mosigynist viewpoint actually when it keeps being stated about Jacinda.

  4. Belladonna 4

    Jacinda holding her own with far right Larry William’s aggressive biased interviewing on ZB in a Leader’s breakfast. Goes until 8.30am if your blood pressure can cope.

  5. Carolyn_nth 5

    Jane Kelsey is asking for some clear answers from Labour, on their position about a revived TPPA (with 11 countries), before the election:

    All of the 11 countries now

    have all agreed to suspend (but not remove) some of the most controversial intellectual property provisions that hiked the price of medicines. Other countries want parts of the actual text and countries’ schedules reopened. Each country has to come back with its wish-list at another meeting in Japan in late September, probably while the New Zealand government is in caretaker mode.


    Jacinda Adern recently defended Labour’s ‘bloody minded’ opposition to the agreement. But its only firm position is an objection to a single, very specific provision in the entire 30-chapter deal: the right to discriminate against foreign purchasers of residential property in the schedule on investment. Does Labour really intend to agree to the TPPA-11 if that minor matter is changed (as it has been in a leaked copy I have of New Zealand’s proposed schedule to the now-suspended Trade in Services Agreement negotiations)?

    Labour’s leadership needs to go on record before the election with some more detailed and convincing answers to these questions, and its position on other toxic provisions affecting the right to regulate on state-owned enterprises, government procurement, financial services and taxation.

    Above all, Labour needs to commit now to a genuine consultation about what position New Zealand should take on the TPPA-11

    Jacinda, Grant, David, anyone in the Labour leadership – can we know your real position on the TPP-11 before the election please?

    • weka 5.1

      Do you know if Parker has said anything recently.

      • Carolyn_nth 5.1.1

        David Parker on 7 July (when Little was leader):
        Focus on restrictions of foreign home buyers (which seems is already excluded from the TPPA-11 draft):

        Parker dismisses the suggestion that fears about a loss of sovereignty are overblown, saying other countries in the TPP retained the right to keep restrictions on foreign homebuyers.

        Parker on 4 Sept: (again on foreign home ownership)

        Labour trade spokesman David Parker said his party supported TPP-11 as long as some revisions were made.

        “TPP was obviously more important with America in it. It remains beneficial into Japan, particularly, but we expect our negotiators to renegotiate the provisions relating to land and we want in TPP-11 the same rights that Australia currently has under TPP-11, which is to ban foreign buyers of [existing] New Zealand homes.

        Audrey Young reports on Labour and Nat positions on the TPPA-11 (again for Labour the focus is on foreign home buyers).

        The article claims Ardern’s Labour would withdraw from TPPA-11 if they weren’t allowed to restrict foreign buyers of NZ homes. But, it seems that is already in the TPPA-11 draft according to Kelsey having seen a leaked version – so, when it’s made public, Labour would presumably then claim a win.

        This seems to be the main focus of articles I have seen that were published in the last month. Labour leadership seems to be silent on any other provisions in TPPA-11.

        • weka 5.1.1.1

          Thanks. That Newsrooms article appears to be saying that Labour are ok with the TPPA on their five bottom lines except that one re foreign house buying. That’s not what I’ve gotten from the conversation on the weekend about Labour, but again that unclarity.

          • Carolyn_nth 5.1.1.1.1

            That was Andrew Little on the 5 bottom lines on the Newsroom article – while he was still leader. So we need to be clear where Labour stands under the Ardern leadership.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1

              I agree. My take is that they oppose it unless they can renegotiate the bits they don’t like (the five bottom lines aren’t on the website statement anymore). At least two problems with that generally. One is that we don’t know what they will do if they can’t renegotiate or can only renegotiate partially. The others is that their bottom lines aren’t likely to be enough.

              I’m willing to trust Labour on developing their tax policy via a review next year, but I don’t trust them on this. They need to earn that trust.

    • tracey 5.2

      It is interesting that a year ago Labour was a part of a ralkying call….

  6. garibaldi 6

    Winston is up to his old tricks again. No coalition with Labour without more detail on tax. I’ll say this for him……he is utterly reliable for putting a spanner in the works.
    How will Jacinda deal with this, or is it Robertsons job to give more clarity?

    • riffer 6.1

      I’ve got to admit, after hearing Ron Mark last night on the news talking about the amount of dead rats any party that “NZF choose to put into government” would have to eat, and after hearing Winston Peters “clarifying his position” about support for Labour, I have to assume that NZF either really don’t want to be in Government, or don’t really want to be in Government with Labour.

      All the more reason to not vote for them I guess.

      • weka 6.1.1

        Which news?

      • Hanswurst 6.1.2

        They’re just trying to shore up their conservative vote, and perhaps hoover up some votes from National. The basis of their sales pitch is that they could go with either main party. Up until now, they’ve been having a bob each way by dint of their default position of negotiating with the largest party first, while implying that they want to change the government by criticising National.

        Now that the polls tell us that cleaving to the largest party and changing the government will both mean the same thing, they need to go hard at Labour in order to prevent voters from concluding that a vote for NZ First is a vote for Labour.

        At the end of the day, a vote for NZ First is a vote for nothing in particular.

        • marty mars 6.1.2.1

          Yep and I’ve watched a few Māori Party videos and the big question – ‘Do you want Winston or us to be the Kingmaker?’ – along side ‘we can work with both sides’ – the fight is real and desperate.

          I think winnie will drag in a few gnat voters who just hate to be on the losing side – it just doesn’t fit their distorted self image.

    • weka 6.2

      Interesting, that sounds like a clear indication he is considering supporting a National 4th term. Where did you hear that?

        • Whispering Kate 6.2.1.1

          My partner was going to vote for Winnie – this morning on hearing this news he turned to me and said “that’s it – Winnie has been unstable recently and lording it over everybody – he isn’t getting my vote” – he will vote Labour or the Greens – this I do know so I wonder how many other people will now give him a miss.

          I have never considered Winnie because of his attitude about who his preferences would be – couldn’t trust him on such an important decision. Incidently I am voting Greens for their climate policies and their compassion for the vulnerable and poor.

  7. riffer 7

    And if I was GR, there’d be no bloody way this close to 23/9 that I would change tack and start trying to make a positioning statement for the Tax Working Group.

    And have any of the other parties been asked to promise that they will not introduce ANY new taxes?

  8. riffer 8

    I don’t find the policy on tax too difficult to understand.

    The Tax Working Group will be given a completely clear mandate to look at all tax, with one major exception – nothing they recommend will in any way touch the primary family home.

    • Carolyn_nth 8.1

      The concern about Labour’s tax plans surely must be a middle-upper class and/or home owners’ concern.

      I doubt it is of much concern to those on low incomes, whether working or on a benefit.

      And that is why it’s getting so much coverage from journalists – all middle-upper class.

      • tracey 8.1.1

        Good point.

      • Frida 8.1.2

        I am ‘apparently’ both of those things and it’s no concern to me, so best not to generalise. Personally I vote for all kiwis, a fairer society and a better future for my children, not for what’s best for my pocket.

    • Hanswurst 8.2

      I agree. On the other hand, I find it hard not to conclude that Labour’s public positioning on tax is purely a case of electoral expediency. They have decided that it is a lesser electoral risk to give their opponents a broad, vague target, compared to providing a whole lot of specifics, and having some policy analyst from National pull some misguided irrelevancy out of his arse and have the National leader confound them with it, as Key did in one of the debates in 2014.

      Don’t get me wrong, I think Labour’s strategy is the right one (and the blame lies more with the media landscape than with either of the major parties), but it is what it is.

      • Pat 8.2.1

        “I find it hard not to conclude that Labour’s public positioning on tax is purely a case of electoral expediency.”

        I’m not sure of that….I suspect it is a genuine case of seeking the mandate (and the resources of government especially) to have a wide ranging look at the entire tax system, something they have been unable to do while in opposition due to the revolving door of leadership and financial constraint……they have a broad goal but haven’t determined the detail…….the same could be said of the future of work working group….lots of ideas and no resources.

        • crashcart 8.2.1.1

          I think they probably have a good idea of what they want to do but are more going to use the working group to add detail and flesh to it. As any party would they will pick and choose what they want to do from a working group. They could release those loose idea’s of where they think they can make some change but going half way is probably worse than what they are doing.

          if you don’t have the detail then don’t fall into the trap of letting National miss characterise what you are going to do and look indecisive.

          As to Ron Mark and his dead rat line. How bad must you be as a party when both sides would consider the policies you hold as a bottom line to be that bad?

        • Hanswurst 8.2.1.2

          I agree that setting up a working group is a good idea, and I don’t have a problem with their leaving their options open; Ardern has also stated that their goal is to shift the tax base onto wealth as well as earnings, which is really quite enough to make a decision on when comparing their proposals to National’s. However, I do think they could say more about their leanings if they so wished, and I think the reason is electoral expediency.

          • weka 8.2.1.2.1

            Labour have been saying for a long time that they would have a tax review in their first time (they talked about it last year during the Future of Work thing). You’re probably right about the expediency too.

          • Pat 8.2.1.2.2

            expedient….no, political yes…inclined to agree with crashcart…if they put forward some of their hoped for detail without a total interconnected package (which doesn’t as yet exist) it opens them up to all sorts of charges when those hoped for details may end up not being implemented at all….if everyone is honest about it,the detail of implementation of any proposed policy is seldom known nor unchanged irrespective of who’s proposing it….this (and all) election will be decided on trust.

            • tracey 8.2.1.2.2.1

              John Key was going to have a job summit. No details demanded. A do fest he said, not a talk fest. Whst they did was use it to pretend a mandate for zero contracts, casualisation of the work force and 90 day trials… I do not recall the level of scrutiny being demanded now of Labour

      • tracey 8.2.2

        I tend to agree. We saw what happened when they costed spending. It is not like the media have yet to demand independant costings from Bill, and he must have them, cos today he said the extra money for first home buyers(but not of apartments) is not a knee jerk but something in the wings for a while. So let us see them and where is the media scrutiny of this mounting spending from tight fisted Bill.

    • mikesh 8.3

      [nothing they recommend will in any way touch the primary family home.]

      In other words she is unwilling to address the massive inequity from not taxing imputed rent, but she is willing to tax the capital gains of those ¨evil¨ speculators which will have them laughing all the way to the bank.

      • greywarshark 8.3.1

        mikesh
        Oh dear, what a fault that ordinary people can actually accumulate a bit of wealth for themselves in having a home. Disgraceful. Unfair. If there is an upper limit on a valuation perhaps that would make a division between the ordinary person who has a nice home and someone who is using it to escape reasonable investment taxes. What tax would work for the ‘evil’ speculators best in your opinion?

        You sound like the government that provides a food voucher for someone who is poor, but denies them a packet of chocolate biscuits. They might get something other than plain rations and some enjoyment.

  9. Sanctuary 9

    Peters is flailing about for any publicity he can get. The fact of the matter is Labour in now going to be the biggest party, and if it can get to mid-high forties and the Greens can keep their shit together and get over the threshold they won’t need him, and thank Christ for that.

  10. Pat 10

    “The element of fear that was in the business community about a Labour/Green Government, I think, is well gone,” he said.

    “Businesses that are good businesses will still be able to do well under everything I’ve seen from the Labour party.”

    He said issues could arise with tax complexity under Labour, but the business community also faces problems under National led Governments.

    “Business doesn’t necessarily do better under National led Governments,” he said.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11920633

    the winds of change…..and everyone wants to be on the winning side….

  11. silvertuatara 11

    Go well in the next 2 weeks Greens, Kia Kaha.

    Caught the last 30 minutes of Larry Williams Newstalk ZB leaders breakfast in which Jacinda Ardern eloquently rebuffed, corrected and informed Mr Williams on many counts of misinformation placed in the public arena about Labours policy and intentions by persons opposed to a change in Government.

    Have to say that the manner in which Jacinda presented herself, with honesty, integrity and humor was uplifting and proof that Jacinda if elected into the position of prime minister on 23 September 2017 will do our country proud, and currently is IMHO by far the most suited person to lead New Zealand down the path of a more fairer and equitable positive future.

    It would be refreshing to have such an inspiring and positive role model championing New Zealand’s and our Pacific Nation’s goals and dream on the world stage…..keeping it positive…..well done Jacinda and the Labour team, supporters and voters.

    I am confident that the Greens will come in comfortably above the 5% threshold and poll stronger than has been recently reported and will be a valued asset within a potential new government lead by Labour.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Carolyn_nth 11.1

      This is a post about a GP policy, not about Labour. Do you have a view on the GP policy?

      • silvertuatara 11.1.1

        Thanks Carolyn_nth….yes I praise and support the 11 initiatives outlined in the Greens Climate Protection Plan, each of the recommendations is well thought out and gives proper direction for which a supportive Government can tackle the increasing issues associated with Climate Change going forward.

        I am also glad that the Labour party who hopefully stand to be the largest elected party elected come 23 September, released their Climate Change Policy last week. I see this reflecting Jacinda’s strength of leadership, in that she has fronted first the major climate change issues which Labour have brought to the country during the lead up to the polls closing, to ensure complete transparency.

        A lot of the initiatives are shared between the Greens and the Labour Party, although I appreciate that the Green’s Plan is more comprehensive, and thus will have a wider impact on New Zealanders, businesses and primary producers.

        In an ideal result come 23 Sept 2017, Labour and the Greens would hold a majority, in order to be able to govern alone, placing the Greens in a position to be able to seek possible concessions and variations to Labour’s climate policy initiatives.

        Having said that, if Labour are in the position to form a coalition government, I would also like to see Labour seek memorandum’s of understandings, and or formal coalition talks with the Maori Party and also New Zealand First, for which there are a broad range of shared values and beliefs between all four parties.

        If Labour, Greens, the Maori Party and New Zealand formed the Government based on the last Colmar Brunton poll, they would have a solid 59% of the vote and a dominant mandate to effect the changes that are required to redirect National’s past 9 years of management that has favored the more well off sectors of NZ society, and that has opened up cracks in essential social services due to punitive policy and underfunding by National and it’s coalition supporters.

        So Yes, the Greens climate plan is awesome and hopefully over the next 9 years the bulk of the Green Policy has been assimilated into legislation for the betterment of New Zealanders and the planet as a whole.

    • tracey 11.2

      Great to hear. Williams seems to slip under the radar when National cheerleaders are discussed

    • Bearded Git 11.3

      steven mills said on rnz this morning that UMR have the greens at 7%

    • silvertuatara 11.4

      Thanks…my apologies about that….I did not know about Open Mike and appreciate your assistance, and note that your comments were valid as the post was not on topic in the article it was posted in…sorry to anyone who this may have upset….but rest assured that I hope that the Greens help shape the next Government negotiated by Labour, and I have my fingers crossed that the Green’s current polling increases.

  12. garibaldi 12

    Bill English on TV this am talking about suicide…. “We need to try something more and different”. It sounded like “more indifferent”. Which option would you believe from National?
    Once again he was flailing around. Time we put him out of his misery.

  13. ianmac 13

    “Speaking to Fran O’Sullivan for the Herald’s Mood of the Boardroom series, Campbell said the Jacinda effect of the new Labour leader had “changed the game significantly” and the business and wider community was relaxed about the prospect of a change in Government.”

    That is good news for Green and Labour.

    • tc 13.1

      Big business only works if theres an economy/society to consume their product so this is more about their bottom line than any moral or social outcome.

      • tracey 13.1.1

        I have to disagree. Bob Campbell is something of a shining light amongst Directors precisely because he accepts that profits are not the only responsibility of businesses. And yes I know he is a Chair of Somerset and aged care employers must improve.

  14. millsy 14

    All going well, this time in 2 weeks, we will have Labour back in power.

    But it isnt over yet. Anything can happen in the next 2 weeks.

  15. Southern Man 15

    According to Federated Farmers…

    By the time farmers were paying for 100 per cent of their emissions, the federation said it would cost the primary industry more than $830 million per year.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/96665676/federated-farmers-say-the-ets-will-cost-the-primary-industry-83-million

    In other words, farmers (mostly pastoral agriculture) are benefiting by $830m per year by having everyone else pay for their emissions. What does MSD Minister Anne Tolley have to say about that?

  16. Nick 16

    3 positive headlines on NZHerald website front page at the moment….

    “Fear of a Labour/Green govt ‘gone’
    “Ardern slaps down National MP on euthanasia”
    “Ardern tackles smear campaign on abortion stance”

  17. Pat 17

    M.Hooten has just capitulated on RNZ…and man does he sound like he needs a drink.

  18. gsays 18

    Ahh.. the bleating begins.
    Leading rnz rural news segments: sth island Fed farmers leader grizzling about ‘some political parties kicking cockies around’, followed by more tax-mongering, re cgt: is my farm my home?

    As predicted by some here as part of the desperate thrashing about of an ‘election strategy’.

  19. Trey 19

    FFS. Really over this type of crap in the herald. Can’t Soper remember his mate John Key and the cult of personality that surrounded him.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11920809

  20. greywarshark 20

    NBR headline – NZ Post annual profit drops by 34% after sale of Kiwi Bank stake.

    Just the way to weaken our country’s hold on its own jewels. Next thing we’ll be prostrate.

  21. Brendan 21

    Anyone know when the next Roy Morgan poll is out? They seem to be far less frequent.

  22. chris73 22

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96701209/nat-mp-simon-oconnor-jacinda-ardern-encourages-suicide-with-euthanasia-stance

    Starting to wonder if this is deliberate but I’m guessing English now knows what its like to be shat on by your own party

    • marty mars 22.1

      I think the shatting was from old monKey – ditched the ship and left a bozo in charge – bill doing his best but making mistakes across the board and instead of accepting he wasn’t up to it like last time he has hung on and and shat all over the party and his MP’s and now they are looking down the gurgler he backs dildo joyce and his lies – and that is after bill was caught out lying about todd and that affair. ffs is there any such thing as a trustworthy gnat – no there ain’t. Basically the whole gnat crew are shatters and shattees and they love it!!!

  23. cleangreen 24

    Jacinda = a very intelligent lady

    See Leighton Smith – it was so easy to describe Jacinda.

    ilovejacinda.

  24. Eco maori 25

    To news hub I like fish but not with hooks in it kapai.

    I made comments on Marae about the other people respecting Korako Nuk for his seniority in age well I read that wrong Korako had already captivated his ordinance with his kick in the private parts to Shane Jones twice.Now Shane 80 percent of men DO this and the other 20 percent of men that DON’T admit to this are liers like Korakos and his national so Shane DON’T be to hard on yourself because I no Korako thinks like nationals Muppets do and does not give a shit about my privacy rights.
    So my remarks about Korako are well placed kapai

  25. greywarshark 26

    There is a blog e2nz.org that purports to give facts about NZ but just seems to enjoy slagging off the country. Leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

    https://e2nz.org/2017/03/01/the-reason-why-nz-needs-migrants-is-because-kiwis-use-too-much-drugs-poor-work-ethic/

  26. Eco maori 27

    Eureka now bill english said so himself that he was happy that there is no constitution signed into law in NZ. So he And national can shit allover our human rights privacy rights and OUR SOCIETY AND environment and they will never be held accountable for there crimes. And this is the reason that national are undermining TOPS and the Greens because they want the principles of the treaty signed into law and this will stop all the bull shit that has been going on in our beautiful country and that is what the snakey bill and his puppets are up to.

  27. Eco maori 29

    Yes Joe90 the national party are idiots and O-Conner is one of bills boys to try and create histera and hate.
    But everyone knows what they are up to. We’re do they find them.

  28. Eco maori 30

    Well working 13 hour days trying to catch up with the bills working 2 jobs.
    I’m very carefull who I write about as I’m not into upsetting other people life’s but for the cause of changing government some people I will write my point of view on them especially these people whom live in a glass bubbles and lie that our country and our environment and say it’s all good

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