Open mike 11/11/2010

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1. Bored 1

   11 November 2010 at 6:52 am

   I read the debate about fuel efficient cars yesterday with some interest, and kept right out. No point upsetting those in denial of a fuel starved future, and then disabusing them with the laws of thermodynamics when they propose techno fixes. Watching the news on TV there was some equally related denial.

   The denial in question was a Federated Farmers man refusing to admit that the fertiliser run off and the dairy effluent run off had anything to do with polluted waterways and lakes. And Nick Smith sitting on tougher regulations for some reason that must have to do with mates and money. Meanwhile our environment degrades and dies. Well done Nick, well done Fed farmers, well done the petrochemical / fertiliser industry. You do our species proud (not)!
2. Jenny 2

   11 November 2010 at 7:09 am

   Why are people homeless in Mana while state homes stand empty?

   Is National preparing to sell them off to private speculators?

   To hi-light this scandal, by-election outsider, Matt McCarten who is running on a social justice platform, has got unemployed volunteers to fix up an empty and neglected state house and put a local homeless Mana family in it.

   Reports are, that there are another 30 empty state houses in Mana in the same condition, while there are lots of local unemployed who could fix them, being kept idle.

   Housing New Zealand keep these houses empty, and the workmen who could fix them sitting idle on the dole, while other Mana families are homeless or living in overcrowded and unhealthy conditions.

   Is this fair?

   Is this just?

   What possible excuse will housing New Zealand or the government give to explain this away?

   Will any of the other election hopefuls join Matt in demanding that, every empty state house in Mana is immediately filled with a homeless family, and that Housing New Zealand do all the necessary repairs needed to bring them up to standard.

   TV3 News: McCarten takes over state house in by-election stunt.
   .
   • jcuknz 2.1

     11 November 2010 at 7:55 am

     Possibly because the houses were not really fit to live in and were awaiting renovation [Because some irresponsible bludger living on the State damaged them?].. that is the message I got from viewing the TV coverage. I agree that state houses should not be empty when there are homeless but how do you renovate when there are tenant living in the house?
     We also know that to avoid rorts we have to have three tenders for any job and likely those unemployed, if there are any skilled tradesmen unemployed what with the CHCH earthquake etc, are not in a position to put in a tender ….I don’t think you thought it through properly.
     Think of the howls of anger if HNZ put tenants into houses below standard .. I think they can’t win either way. And we know how hidebound public servants are with all the rules and regulations governing their actions … quite impossible to make decisions quickly … one of the facts of life.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

       11 November 2010 at 12:00 pm

       Chch are actively bypassing builders/construction workers from outside Chch/Southland.

       They also shouldn’t need to put in a tender – HNZ just needs to employ them directly and get them doing the work. Chances are that HNZ has enough ongoing work to make that cheaper than always having to go to tender.
3. Logie97 3

   11 November 2010 at 7:35 am

   That nasty IRB has done it again. One of our “whiter than white” sportsmen who never infringe, never have the reputation of “team enforcer” has been accused of being “dirty” again. It’s just not fair. I don’t know why we bother to play England at rugby. We moan about the Northern Hemisphere officials every time we venture over there. Why don’t we just stay at home?

   Wait a minute, Tony Woodcock displayed the most appalling act of thuggery in a recent Tri-Nations test against Australia, and the local judiciary didn’t have the “balls” to cite let alone suspend him – that belief that it’s just the opposition who play dirty again…

   And while on the subject, watch Nonu receive the next citing – for not using arms in a tackle – you read it here first folks.
4. jcuknz 4

   11 November 2010 at 7:44 am

   Is this an argument against National Standards? I don’t know enough to judge but bring it to your attention.
   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/education/10teacher.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a22
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     11 November 2010 at 12:05 pm

     That’s what a lot of people have said about league tables.
5. Carol 5

   11 November 2010 at 7:46 am

   UK students took part in a major demonstration yesterday, protesting sharp increases in Uni tuition fees and cuts to education spending. Very good to see that people, especially young people, in the UK are rediscovering the UK tradition of protests:

   http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/video-of-students-protests-in-london/

   There’s always the issue of the minority of protesters turning violent, and whether the media would have taken much notice without something dramatic & sensationalist. The violence was against property: the Tory Party headquarters.

   Also of note is the use of digital communications to report on the protests: twitter, IPhones etc.
6. joe90 6

   11 November 2010 at 9:13 am

   British intelligence officials say that there was no evidence to support Bush’s claim that the use of waterboarding had helped to foil terrorist plots but I wont be holding my breath waiting for another hearing by the US or a judge in The Hague issuing warrants. Pricks.
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     11 November 2010 at 9:24 am

     Obama remains a huge disappointment, and now with Congress hamstrung he has 2 years of paychecks to collect and then he’s out.
7. Carol 7

   11 November 2010 at 9:39 am

   Kathryn Ryan is right now asking the Attorney General some tough questions about undemocratic practices by the government, as raised by the law society: ECAN, Earthquake enabling powers, Rugby World Cup enabling bill.
   • marty mars 7.1

     11 November 2010 at 9:56 am

     he sounded very petulant.
     • Carol 7.1.1

       11 November 2010 at 9:59 am

       Yes. There was a stage when he accused Ryan of just being nasty or something along those lines. But he was very defensive concerning what happens in caucus stays in caucus.
   • mickysavage 7.2

     11 November 2010 at 10:01 am

     I heard it and this is one of the best interviews I have heard for a while.

     Ryan clearly needled Finlayson and he sounded really irritated by the end of it. He kept minimising the Law Society’s concern about the gradual increase in executive power.

     The part that really appeared to needle Finlayson was when she questioned him about the sacking of ECAN. He dismissed this by saying that everyone in Cantebury supported the Government’s action. Kathryn then tried to analyse this from a point of principle and suggested that the sacking of a democratically elected body was wrong unless the circumstances was extreme and that just because it was popular did not make it right. He was not willing or able to argue the principle.

     He resorted to cabinet collective responsibility to justify the decision. I suspect that he personally does not approve of the power grab.
     • Colonial Viper 7.2.1

       11 November 2010 at 10:19 am

       I wonder how Finalyson feels about selling out his professional integrity for $240K p.a.
     • Lats 7.2.2

       11 November 2010 at 10:22 am

       I live in Canterbury, and indeed worked at ECan for a few years a while back. I certainly did not, and still do not support the sacking of the ECan board. It was an appalling act of dictatorial authoritarianism.
       • Logie97 7.2.2.1

         11 November 2010 at 9:59 pm

         Today it is revealed that our lakes and waterways are in a highly polluted state.
         ECAN has been disbanded and replaced by the very same polluters implicated in the report. As if Canterbury waterways had enough troubles, Smith and English Bros would appear to have just been given a freehand to foul them even more.
     • William Joyce 7.2.3

       11 November 2010 at 2:16 pm

       I wonder, grudgingly giving Finlayson some benefit of the doubt, that he was being forced by cabinet responsibility, to defend these actions.
       Although defensive throughout the interview, he did seem to start to lose the plot only when being challenged about his own opinion and if he had expressed it to his fellow cabinet ministers.

       Perhaps he was being forced to defend actions insisted upon by currency traders, woodwork teachers, economics hobbyists and Fed Farmers stooges.
8. Scott 8

   11 November 2010 at 10:21 am

   Racism rears its ugly head (again) in Dargaville:
   http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2010/11/dargavilles-media-should-honour-towns.html
   • Bunji 8.1

     11 November 2010 at 10:46 am

     My, that’s a finely written post. Good stuff Scott.
9. john 9

   11 November 2010 at 10:46 am

   The current NeoLiberal mad Government in the UK: Why mad? They are privatizing everything under the Sun, they refuse to maintain the tax system and collect 10s of billions of pounds owed by Corporations who try every trick to avoid and evade what they owe. They lower and lower the Corporation tax rate. The current austerity measures are totally unnecessary, they are doing the Chicago School’s shock tactic for ideology reasons, Now students are protesting against being socially excluded from University education by the tripling of tuition fees to impossible to pay back levels. The UK is a NeoLiberal madhouse the result of sucking up to the Yanks for decades.This government has declared class war on its own people!Refer link:
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328385/Student-tuition-fee-protesters-smash-Millbank-Tory-HQ.html#comments
   • Carol 9.1

     11 November 2010 at 11:00 am

     Hmmm… the police say they didn’t predict that levels of violence. It seems the police have forgotten the past of London demos…. maybe lulled into a false sense of security in recent years?

     I have been on many protests in London, and it was a very frequent event for some protesters to push the police to confrontation. It was usually led by “anarchist” groups, such as Class War. To me it was totally predictable, and I could see when such a confrontation was building up and would get well out of the way. The police knew it was predictable too. There used to be a cat-and-mouse game between Class War and the police. I recall one massive demo (I think against the first Gulf War), when Class War were a little way behind us at the beginning of the demo. As we went through Trafalgar Square, a large contingent of police formed up alongside Class War, with a policeperson every yard or two.

     Of course, I should add that under Thatcher, the police often seemed to deliberately provoke such violent confrontations. Then it made it possible for Thatcher to dismiss the protesters as thugs, and set on violence rather than a legitimate protest.
     • Vicky32 9.1.1

       11 November 2010 at 6:29 pm

       I heard about all that on the radio this morning… It’s what we need here, but what we get is “baaaa”…
       (Except when it comes to cannabis, or so I heard on 3 News.)
       Deb
       • Carol 9.1.1.1

         11 November 2010 at 7:05 pm

         Well, when the French protests were in full swing, I saw some comments in Britain, asking why Brits seemed to not have a protest tradition, and weren’t protesting against the “austerity” measures. Actually, they do. There also often seems to be a small minority of Brit activists who are prepared to push the boundaries of confrontation. I think some have the philosophy that state violence should be countered with violence.

         I must say, I’m a bit of a coward and always kept well away from such aggro. Is that a Kiwi thing? In London, I have saw a few people fairly close up with blood pouring out of their heads after being whacked by a police truncheon.

         But, I think Kiwi’s have been stirred to activism sometimes (eg 1981), and maybe it just needs the right trigger? And there were the fairness at work & anti- schedule 4 mining rallies recently. Maybe NZ activism could do with being a bit more imaginative, though? Like McCarten & Unite?
     • Colonial Viper 9.1.2

       11 November 2010 at 10:38 pm

       The Bill in the UK have been fed a syrup of Islamic terrorists and chavs in the last 10 years. They have no idea how to respond to protestors who are their own sons and daughters, who are their own brothers and sisters. They’re mentally screwed, in other words.

       They lower and lower the Corporation tax rate. The current austerity measures are totally unnecessary, they are doing the Chicago School’s shock tactic for ideology reasons

       So, this is how it goes.

       1) The UK (could replace with Irish, Greek, Icelandic, French) govt bails out the private banking system using billions of tax payers monies and goes deep deep into debt. Massive deficit spending becomes the norm as the economy stumbles.

       2) In order to fund its daily operations, even as services for the many are cut to the bone (even though it was the FEW who inflicted all the financial damage), the govt has to find more money, and fast. Its options now are to borrow the money or to increase taxes on the rich and on the wealthy capital holders.

       3) Being Tories (in the UK), taxes on the wealthy, on the private banking system and on corporations ain’t going up. Not in a hundred years. So the govt has to borrow the monies to fund its daily operations.

       4) ***This is the important step.*** WHO is the Government going to borrow the money that it needs from? Yep, you got it, those very same wealthy asset holders, the private banking system, the large corporations.

       – Now think about this: given a choice between being TAXED by the Govt, END OF STORY, and having the Govt come to you cap in hand to ask for a LOAN, from which you will be paid back IN FULL WITH INTEREST, I wonder what the wealthy capitalists will push for? 🙄

       5) However, a lot of times the huge amount of money that the govt will need will only be able to be provided by another, very cash rich country. Say, China/Japan/Russia.

       6) So what ends up happening? The Government borrows from these nations, and to pay them back and ends up acting as ***their tax collectors*** taking money from ordinary old you and ordinary old me, on behalf of the Chinese, Japanese and Russian Governments.

       So on the behalf of these foreign powers, and also the wealthy asset holding and banking classes, I would like to THANK ALL OF YOU for being so co-operative, caring and understanding 😈 😈 😈
       • Carol 9.1.2.1

         11 November 2010 at 10:50 pm

         I agree on your points 1-6, CV. But really, I don’t know about the UK police going soft on their own. They can’t have forgotten how to deal with unruly protesters so soon. And back then, in the 80s & early 90s, was when the IRA were blowing up buildings in London & other big cities. The IRA was the great scurge of the right & the MSM then. But still the police had no compunction about slamming a few of “their own” in demos, like the poll tax rioters etc.

         I can’t help but wonder if it was the old story of allowing a bit of violence to happen in order to discredit the protestors.
         • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1.1

           11 November 2010 at 10:56 pm

           Agreed, it won’t take much for the old Bill to be back.
           • Rosy 9.1.2.1.1.1

             12 November 2010 at 6:24 am

             Perhaps the death of Ian Tomlinson in last year’s riots has left them not quite sure about how to handle things this year.
             http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/ian-tomlinson-g20-death-video
         • the pink postman 9.1.2.1.2

           12 November 2010 at 3:12 pm

           Unfortunatly the police seem to attract many right-wingers and a fair share of racist types. In the blackshirt marches in the 1930s in East End of London who do you think went home with busted heads . Well it wasn’t Mosley’ s gang it was the poor Jews and Left -Wingers who were protesting. Have a look at any film available on strikes . Its the picket line people who get whacked with the truncheons not the creeps who cross the picket line. Im afraid its something Lefties have to live with .
   • Bored 9.2

     11 November 2010 at 12:34 pm

     When you declare class war you can expect that, as in any war, there will be casualties.
     • john 9.2.1

       11 November 2010 at 2:20 pm

       Hi Bored
       The main casualties here will be able bright students from poorer backgrounds who will be excluded from University education for the reason that won’t have a hope of paying back 9000pounds yearly tuition fees hoisted up from 3000 !
       • Bored 9.2.1.1

         11 November 2010 at 2:39 pm

         At the risk of being cynical here might I suggest these same bright students will see that even with the debt there will be no jobs a a result (nor instead of)..they will end up being the bright cadres of the revolution. Idle hands as they say.
   • john 9.3

     11 November 2010 at 9:37 pm

     Clegg, Avast me Harties!, He and Labour bailed out the bankers whose casino bets went wrong with billions and billions of pounds,otherwise civilisation would have come to an end! What a joke,Why should ordinary people pay for their failed greed schemes? Short answer they shouldn’t:
     Some opinions from British people themselves:

     “David Cameron urges China to embrace democracy
     5 hours later Millbank Towers Tory HQ is wrecked
     Perhaps people in his own country acted on his words and are no longer going to allow their country to be run by Corrupt Governments/Bankers/Corporate Big Business who do not pay the correct UK tax and Rich Tax Avoiders
     Didn’t see that one coming did you Dave ?

     This is what happens when a government goes back on its promises and a generation of young people don’t fancy being saddled with 50-70K of debt + interest to get a poxy degree. They also don’t like the social-engineering manipulation behind the scenes which has meant that you can’t get a job slinging burgers without one. Some might call it supply and demand, meaning that degrees are devalued, others might say its a rigged system designed to keep people in poverty. Bloody good luck to them, I thought students had become a load of tossers since the 60’s, now they are waking up again. And it’s not some despot in Nicaragua nobody has ever heard of who’s the target of their ire – its all about the crap they are being told to swallow right here, at home, by a load of dishonest and corrupt sleeze-bags.

     The more David Cameron talks of democracy, the more we must count his and Clegg’s pre-election promises and post-election lies.
     How much more violence to our education system will we tolerate in the name of free market ideology?

     Blame Cameron & Clegg for acting like dictators and thinking they can just decree without consultation.
     Cameron didn’t win an election. Clegg didn’t win an election.
     They ignore consensus politics but substitute it with glib phrases such as
     “We Are All In It Together” & “Tough But Fair”
     that everyone knows are lies.

     Clegg lied and lied again to the students. What else did he expect would happen?
     He may have contempt for democracy but he doesn’t crack a whip and everyone jumps. Someone should tell Commandant Clegg that this isn’t Nazi Germany.
     If you’re a student, and did NOTHING to cause the financial crisis, you’ll pay through the nose for an education.
     If you’re unemployed, and did NOTHING to cause the financial crisis, you’ll work for nothing for your benefits or starve.
     If you’re a banker, who CAUSED the financial crisis —– well, how much do you want, old boy? NO, NO NEED TO DO ANYTHING FOR IT, JUST REMEMBER THE PARTY AT THE NEXT ELECTION.

     I get the distinct feeling that this was inevitable. The Gulf War protests, then the election debacle, wherein millions of people voted to keep the Tories out, only to find their vote had been purloined to usher them in; these were the signposts along the way. It’s all very well supporting lawful protest, but increasingly people are waking up to the dismal truth that lawful protests, however widespread, are treated with total disdain by whichever government happens to be in charge at the time. Lawful protest, in actuality, has been used as a convenient pressure vent for social unease – we see people carrying placards and switchover to watch X Factor.
     Now I don’t want to see people getting hurt, but people will, and if this is the price that has to be paid in order to oust this most undemocratic of governments, then so be it. As for criminal damage to Tory HQ, well I say fair enough – given the social damage the coalition has planned for this country in order to appease their pals in high finance, it’s the merest drop in a large and heaving ocean.

     Millbank Protesters Statement

     ‎”We stand against the cuts, in solidarity with all the poor, elderly, disabled and working people affected. We are against all cuts and the marketisation of education. We are occupying the roof of Tory HQ to show we are against the Tory system of attacking the poor and helping the rich. This is only the beginning.”

     Sounds good to me.”
     • Colonial Viper 9.3.1

       11 November 2010 at 9:47 pm

       Time to pull out a copy of “V for Vandetta” methinks.

       If you haven’t watched it yet I can highly recommend it.
       • The Voice of Reason 9.3.1.1

         11 November 2010 at 10:04 pm

         I’ve got the comics, CV, even better. Mint cond. if anyone wants to make an offer!
     • Carol 9.3.2

       11 November 2010 at 11:15 pm

       Yes, this is when we see the Lib Dem’s mistake in going into a full coalition with the Tories, finally exposed. It’s all blowing up in Clegg’s face. How did the election numbers fall again? I think maybe the Conservatives and Lib Dems went into a coalition with a First Passed The Post mentality. They didn’t really honour what the electorate voted for. They wanted a change from Labour & Brown, but many voted Lib Dem to keep the Tories from getting the majority.

       Now it looks like the Lib Dems are fracturing, with some of their MPs going to vote against the government.
       • the pink postman 9.3.2.1

         12 November 2010 at 4:14 pm

         Reminds me of the Maori Party debacle does it not. Very similar. The Libs whose natural coalition partner is Labour ,warts and all betrayed their supporters ,now its the begining of the end. The Maori Party also betrayed their supporters who thought they would go with Labour now they are splilt in two and fighting each other. Both these parties deserve to disappear at the next elections ,hopefully before!
10. Pascal's bookie 10

    11 November 2010 at 11:01 am

    QOTD: kid lucky to have an awesome mum edtion.

    “He rocked that wig”
    • Lanthanide 10.1

      11 November 2010 at 12:35 pm

      One of my favourite episodes of Freaks and Geeks is the halloween one, where the nerdy tall one dressed up as the Bionic Woman.
11. joe90 11

    11 November 2010 at 1:07 pm

    We’ve had What The Fuck Has Obama Done So Far? so for a change try What The Fuck Has Sarah Palin Done So Far?.
12. Draco T Bastard 12

    11 November 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Report: Global Warming Issue From 2 Or 3 Years Ago May Still Be Problem

    WASHINGTON—According to a report released this week by the Center for Global Development, climate change, the popular mid-2000s issue that raised awareness of the fact that the earth’s continuous rise in temperature will have catastrophic ecological effects, has apparently not been resolved, and may still be a problem.

    😆
    • Rosy 12.1

      11 November 2010 at 3:04 pm

      Quick off the mark aren’t they? I like this bit:. “But then the debates over Social Security reform and the World Trade Center mosque came up..” Sooo much more important to worry about a mosque being buit a couple of blocks away from the World Trade Centre.
13. the pink postman 13

    11 November 2010 at 3:54 pm

    I urge everyone to go and see the film “Dagenham” . What a great film and what an achievment for the truly working class. The girls(not my words) were brave and set an example to most of us. The film is a must for workers . Im hoping some of the bludgers who do not join their union but accept the benefits see it .It should be compulsory at all high schools,
14. grumpy 14

    11 November 2010 at 4:17 pm

    And on NewstalkZB, Chris Carter has outed Trevor Mallard as one of his fellow “17 plotters” against Our Phil.
15. Draco T Bastard 15

    11 November 2010 at 4:39 pm

    McCully gives RWC ceremony contracts to Aussies http://bit.ly/NBRpaidWC

    Behind the paywall so you can’t read it unless you subscribe but it appears that the NACT government, so concerned with closing the wage gap with Australia lowering wages, have given jobs to the Australians.
16. aj 16

    11 November 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Laurence O’Donnell of MSNBC: – a defense of socialism. Skewers Glenn Beck and Fox Tv

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40100812#40100812

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