Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
When a war between the states threatened to rip our country apart, the members of our state had no problem whatsoever ripping the state apart and seceding from Virginia, just as Virginia had seceded from the Union. We formed our own state in 1863, thank you very much.
The only reason anyone still burns coal today is because of the enormous political power and inertia that the industry has acquired since the 19th century. In America, that power and inertia is embodied in the cruel and cartoonish character of West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, who, paradoxically, may have more control over the trajectory of the climate crisis than any other person on the planet right now.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
CO₂ and Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Human emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases – are a primary driver of climate change – and present one of the world’s most pressing challenges. This link between global temperatures and greenhouse gas concentrations – especially CO₂ – has been true throughout Earth’s history.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them,
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Walensky explained: "A study of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated between December and October demonstrated that severe disease occurred in about 0.015 percent of the people who received their primary series and death in 0.003 percent of those people."
In a tweet posted on January 9 following the GMA interview, Walensky said: "We must protect people with comorbidities from severe #COVID19. I went into medicine – HIV specifically – and public health to protect our most at-risk. CDC is taking steps to protect those at highest risk, incl. those w/ chronic health conditions, disabilities & older adults."
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was ripped off from "an homage to" some other movie.
But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous…
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake.
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
While two doses still provide good protection against severe illness, the study found that booster shots increased protection against symptomatic infection to 75 per cent.
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .
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Citizen Science writes – Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dreamThat all the people of the world got together on the same wavelengthAnd began helping one anotherNow in this dream, universal love was the theme of the dayPeace and understanding and it happened this wayAfter such an eventful day ...
This is a guest post by Oscar Simms who is a housing activist, volunteer for the Coalition for More Homes, and was the Labour Party candidate for Auckland Central at the last election. ...
Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
You're in the mall when you hear it: some kind of popping sound in the distance, kids with fireworks, maybe. But then a moment of eerie stillness is followed by more of the fireworks sound and there’s also screaming and shrieking and now here come people running for their lives.Does ...
Karl du Fresne writes – There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
The Government must commit to the Maitai School building project for students with high and complex needs, to ensure disabled students from the top of the South Island have somewhere to learn. ...
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel. “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says. "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board. “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti. “I have asked her to ...
The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States. “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
The Fast-track Bill, if passed, would allow three Ministers, unchallenged and unchecked, to approve the immediate extraction and exhaustion of one-off resources. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne iamharin/Shutterstock For many people, the term “bulk billed” refers to a GP visit they don’t have to pay ...
Emmas Hislop, Sidnam and Wehipeihana discuss what’s in a name. Emma Sidnam: Hello Emmas! Thank you so much for agreeing to do this with me. My first question for you is related to what’s been on my mind for a while. It’s very important. You see we’ve recently had some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Sievers, Research Fellow, Global Wetlands Project, Australia Rivers Institute, Griffith University Chris Brown Humans love the coast. But we love it to death, so much so we’ve destroyed valuable coastal habitat – in the case of some types of habitat, ...
Josh Thomson on the 80s milk ad jingle he can’t stop singing, the beauty of The Simpsons, why Jersey Shore is as good as Shakespeare and more. For someone who spends a lot of time on our screens, popping up in everything from 7 Days to Taskmaster, Educators to Good ...
In apparent defiance of the Biden administration, the Netanyahu government has now initiated missile strikes against Iran. Last Saturday night (Sunday morning in New Zealand) Iran launched more than 300 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles against Israeli military targets. With the assistance of US, UK and possibly French forces, ...
Māori representation brings a perspective that encompasses not only the interests of Māori communities but also a broader, holistic approach to environmental stewardship and community well-being, principles deeply embedded in Te Ao Māori (the Māori ...
This week in Auckland, a group of young people took over the microphone at a ministerial press conference, to explain why they oppose the Fast-Track Approvals Bill. One young woman said, ‘We’re here because we love Aotearoa New Zealand. We want to raise our children in an environment that’s thriving, ...
The summer was wonderful. Evie was wonderful, too; finally a teenager, finally worthy of long, hot days. She shaved her legs for the first time and bought cut-off shorts from the op-shop that made them look long. She got a Warehouse singlet so tight on her new shape that her ...
When Thomas James was on his solo camp as part of Outward Bound, the keen outdoorsman didn’t find it too challenging, as others often do. In what might just be the perfect illustration of his character, he saw it as a great opportunity to solve a few problems. “I thought, ...
From the unstable and drippy to the hi-tech and pretty, here’s our ranking of all the tunnels you can drive through in this country. The first tunnel seems to have been built in 2200BC in Babylonia, kicking off a global phenomenon for digging holes in order to get places more ...
Lucinda Bennett on the art of being greedy but resourceful. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. When I picture the market, it is always this time of year. Crisp air, dripping nose, counting coins with cold fingers. Sunlight pale, filtered through specks of dew still ...
Zoë Colling’s favourite piece in the ‘That’s So Last Century’ collection is a lubrication chart for a sewing machine from the ’60s. It’s about the size of a postcard, and carefully maintained. “I like it that this piece of ephemera highlights that manual and technical side of the skill involved ...
Kia Ora Gaza A passionate haka reverberated through Auckland International Airport as a medical team of three New Zealand doctors received an emotional farewell from a big crowd of supporters before flying to Turkey to join the international Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. The doctors, who left Auckland yesterday, hope to ...
With submissions closing today, Macassey-Pickard says groups around the country have been supporting a huge range of people to make their submissions. ...
Our response to the new legislation is informed by targeted conversations with practitioners working in the system and through an implementation lens. ...
The new ‘Fast-track Approvals Bill’ would give just three Ministers the power to approve or deny development projects. They would avoid the usual checks and balances that are in place to protect rivers, land, the ocean, and communities. ...
COMMENTARY:By Eugene Doyle Helen Clark, how I miss you. The former New Zealand Prime Minister — the safest pair of hands this country has had in living memory — gave a masterclass on the importance of maintaining an independent foreign policy when she spoke at an AUKUS symposium held ...
The government's released the list of organisations provided with information on how to apply - just hours before public submissions on the bill close. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milton Speer, Visiting Fellow, School of Mathematical and Physical Sciences, University of Technology Sydney Before climate change really got going, eastern Australia’s flash floods tended to concentrate on our coastal regions, east of the Great Dividing Range. But that’s changing. Now ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elizabeth Finkel, Vice-Chancellor’s Fellow, La Trobe University Sia Duff / South Australian Museum In February, the South Australian Museum “re-imagined” itself. In the face of rising costs and inadequate government funds, CEO David Gaimster, who took the reins last June, declared ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Pearce, Professor, School of Allied Heath, Human Services & Sport, La Trobe University, La Trobe University This week, Collingwood AFL player Nathan Murphy announced his retirement, brought on by his concussion history and ongoing issues. The 24-year-old’s seemingly sudden retirement, ...
The Mental Health Foundation provides support and resources for those facing the loss of their job, so it’s wrong in the very week the Government adds another 1000 jobs to its tally of cuts, that this is happening. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Howard, Senior Lecturer, Discipline of English and Writing, University of Sydney Daniel Boud/Sydney Theatre Company Decay, terror, revulsion. These are three of the central themes of Thomas Bernhard’s rarely performed play The President. The Austrian is one of the greatest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ye In (Jane) Hwang, Postdoctoral Research Associate at School of Population Health, UNSW Sydney Shutterstock You’d be hard pressed to find any aspect of daily life that doesn’t require some form of digital literacy. We need only to look back ten ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says threats by ministers Shane Jones and David Seymour to reform or close down the Waitangi Tribunal were “ill-considered”, as legal experts say the ministers may have breached Cabinet Manual conventions. “I think those comments are ill-considered and we expect all ministers to actually exercise good ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Newton, Professor of Exercise Medicine, Edith Cowan University Pexels/RDNE stock project You’re not in your 20s or 30s anymore and you know regular health checks are important. So you go to your GP. During the appointment they measure your waist. ...
A new poem by Evangeline Riddiford Graham. Mitochondrial Problem I. It was long drive to Kansas for the man and his dog but you have to understand he said She doesn’t fly. Which calls to mind not carsick shitting barking or whining but a dog who chooses not to as ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)Hot off the press, this debut ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Wajnryb McDonald, PhD candidate in Criminology, University of Sydney Less than 24 hours after Ashlee Good was murdered in Bondi Junction, her family released a statement requesting the media take down photographs they had reproduced of Ashlee and her family without ...
Chief executive Shaun Robinson said it has not had any government funding cut, but government-funded contracts have not kept pace with rising costs. ...
The Ministry of Health has delayed the release of its evidence brief on the safety, reversibility and mental health and wellbeing outcomes for puberty blockers. While we wait, Julia de Bres speaks to those with firsthand experience. Best practice gender-affirming healthcare is based on trans people’s self-determination and agency. The ...
Barcelona’s city streets have gone from traffic-clogged to pedestrian-friendly. How? Superblocks. Ellen Rykers explains. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week I read a great interview with renowned urbanist Janette Sadik-Khan by The Spinoff’s Wellington editor Joel MacManus: “You can reimagine streets, ...
Student groups ‘Climate Action VUW’, Schools Strike 4 Climate and VUWSA will be on the street in Wellington today, the last day for submissions on the Fast-track Approvals Bill, with a message that the fight against the Government’s ‘War on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sofia Ammassari, Research Fellow, Griffith University Since 2014, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s popularity has grown exponentially – and so has the formidable organisational machine of his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). These two factors will be key to delivering the BJP a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendon Hyndman, Associate Professor of Education (Adjunct) & Senior Manager (BCE), Charles Sturt University During COVID almost all Australian students and their families experienced online learning. But while schools have long since gone back to in-person teaching, online learning has not gone ...
Yes, they’re better for the environment. No, that’s not a good enough reason for me to use them. Once every 26 days or so, my period arrives, and if struck by an act of God, I am caught red-crotched without products. How, after 17 years of this, do I still ...
“It will cause significant harm to our environment and communities. It is completely at odds with New Zealanders’ relationship with nature and our need for a low-carbon, sustainable economic future." ...
The Chair of the National Maori Authority, Matthew Tukaki, has warned a Parliamentary Select Committee that fast-tracking legislation is a perilous practice that undermines the core tenets of democracy, transparency, and accountability. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Tenbensel, Associate Professor, Health Policy, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images Since coming into power, the coalition government has adopted a simple but shrewd see-how-fast-we-can-move political strategy. However, in the health sector this need for speed entails ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Hronis, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Darya Sannikova/Pexels Whether you’re watching TV, attending a footy game, or eating a meal at your local pub, gambling is hard to escape. Although the rise of gambling is not unique to Australia, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Wong, Forrest Fellow, School of Biological Sciences, The University of Western Australia Have you ever wondered if there are more insects out at night than during the day? We set out to answer this question by combing through the scientific ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Carol T Kulik, Research Professor, University of South Australia IR Stone/Shutterstock In Australia, it’s not the done thing to know – let alone ask – what our colleagues are paid. Yet, it’s easy to see how pay transparency can make pay ...
The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) is sounding a warning to migrants, that running foul of the law may see them leaving the country prematurely. ...
The government’s plan to get 50,000 people off jobseeker support by 2030 has had a rocky start, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Beneficiary numbers are up – and so are ...
Raglan Roast is a staple of Wellington coffee culture. But with five branches across the capital, which one is the best? I am a die-hard Raglan Roast fan. It’s consistently the most affordable cafe in Wellington, and one of the only places you can get a coffee after 3pm. So, ...
Residents of University of Auckland halls are being urged to withhold their accommodation fees from May 1, in a bid to force the university to take student concerns over rent hikes seriously.The University of Auckland is facing a strike from students over the cost of on-campus accommodation. The Students ...
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Opinion: With maths understanding at 42 percent for Year 8 students, there’s no doubt something has to be done. But how? The post Financial literacy should be on all of us appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Hineaupounamu ‘Missy’ Nuku has been scaling mountains in Canada for her college basketball team, the Lakeland Rustlers. Alberta is currently home for the 20-year-old point guard, who is in her first year of a scholarship at Lakeland College, where she is studying for a business degree. She has certainly made ...
New Zealand and the Philippines have signed a new maritime security agreement and stated their concerns over activity in the South China Sea, as Chinese vessels continue to flout international law. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Philippines President Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos committed to signing a Mutual Logistics Supporting Arrangement by ...
The thousands of government “back-office” job cuts are causing widespread pain in the capital city. In today’s episode of The Detail, we speak to three journalists and a think tank researcher, looking at the larger picture around the cuts and what effect it will have on Wellington, a city that’s ...
Opinion: The famed American architect and urban designer Daniel Burnham once said, “Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men’s blood!” Burnham wouldn’t have been referring to the transport plans in Aotearoa New Zealand over the past five years; projects so big they hadn’t the credibility to ...
Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
Coal country. Manchin!
A Democrat, of course. An avatar of democracy. The best that money can buy.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/28/joe-manchin-kyrsten-sinema-build-back-better-plan
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
do you speak for all idiots, or just a small percentage?
I speak for myself. Do you have anything to add apart from nothing?
No, I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn't be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
Bush fires are also caused by climate change apparently.
Opps, reply meant for Robert.
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
"In fact I shouldn't be writing this…"
Weka agrees.
Thanks, weka.
Edit: Blade! Don’t look up! 🙂
Always helpful to moderation when people make their position abundantly clear 😈
lol the edit. That phrase is going to be handy.
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
I knew it!
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
Come back to us in 2 years time, Blade, when the Arctic goes ice free, about September 2023. Then tell us the climate isn't rapidly changing!
You are basing this on what, Tony? Climate modelling…or One News?
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/wmo-recognizes-new-arctic-temperature-record-of-38%E2%81%B0c
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
"Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers."
Quote of the age.
Only if you can't see a common thread, Robert. And it seems you can't.
The recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels doesn't look like a 'natural' trend. All that fossil fuel carbon has to go – somewhere.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
Being a believer is for religion, man made climate change is a scientifically proven fact, weather one "believes " is irrelevant.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
Maybe I should cancel my NewScientist subscription, Dennis? Maybe I should give it to you?
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
See Iprent's post above. He hits the nail on the head regarding NS.
Apart from that I wouldn't have a clue what your post is about. I'm sure it's something profound. It's just a little over my IQ quadrant.
Hi Blade, yes apologies that was a bit obscure.
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Ok, cool.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/ocean-temperatures-earth-heat-increase-record
But don't let that bother you. With your head firmly in the sand dunes you won't see a thing.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
Sorry, I didn't know that. But I wasn't denying climate change.
denial includes denial that humans are causing it.
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
just pointing out where the boundaries are for commenting under my posts.
I also consider ‘it’s too late’ and ‘there’s nothing we can do’ to be a form of denial and have a limited tolerance for that.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I do blame any political party that believes in man made climate change.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
👍
But I wasn’t denying climate change.
Still waiting for your answer to my question what do YOU think is causing it, Blade?
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
See Drowsy M. Kram's post above.
mod note for you Blade
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
The Greens should try to "play" the big parties?
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
'A bit transparent though, isn't it?'
In politics the more transparency the better I'd have thought
'Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.'
I guess it comes down to what you consider more important I guess, pride or results.
Pride or cleaner rivers
Pride or increased funding for pest control
Etc etc
National for clean rivers!
That sort of thing?
Have the Nats fallen out with farmers?
I hadn't heard!
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
Or not.
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
'It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest'
Good luck playing second fiddle to Winston or the next political party that comes along and talks to both sides
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
– If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
if National were to offer enough concessions
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDvmV4zr-Q
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
Intelligent.
A person with oxymoron characteristics is more like it.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Unfortunately it seems like you can't change pugnacious Rogue!
'pugnacious Rogue'
I like it
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Agreed.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
It's been bugging me – and the "It's Time' post is pretty clogged up, so I'll ask here –
Julian Richards described our healthcare system as "McDonald's Heathcare in several comments and when asked, said
I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
What's McDonald's about it? Is it:
– finding someone when you need them, saying "how can I help you?"
– the list of goods you can pick off a predefined menu?
– mass production churning out the same quality product to each outlet?
– the same service and menu for everyone regardless of ethnicity, sex, gender, age, occupation, income and location.
– that it's readily available everywhere?
– that it's bad for you in large doses?
or is that there's always someone asking "would you like fries with that?"
because sure as heck, there are no added extras in the public health system and I can't envisage any of the other comparisons working either.
Can anyone clarify for this unimaginative person?
Julian can't (or won't) even explain his own argument, so I'm not sure anyone else can either 😉
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
that's a fantastic and very clear conceptual metaphor Robert 😁
I can see that one quite clearly 🙂
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
ah, I see. He's… not right (imo).
Our public health response to covid is the Swiss Cheese model
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
Btw -thanks for your response to my comment on the 'it's time' post – much appreciated
(I couldn't leave a response to you there for some reason)
The ice cream machine is always broken?
They have ice-cream?
(or not, it seems).
https://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+meme&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ690NZ690&oq=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i512l4j0i20i263i512j0i512l4.6606j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Nah – especially if narrowing down the metaphor to just the vaccine roll-out, which I suppose was the point (?)
The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response 😉
'The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response'
Not a very high bar to clear…
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
Here is a link to Johns Hopkins – a source I would trust https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
Djokovich's double dose of covid seems to negate the natural immunity theory. Although obviously is subject to interpretation
Who knows with this person……..
Seems pretty fast and loose about many things connected with his testing, infections etc.
I don't think we can derive much learning about immunity or covid from that story.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Do they?
Are they up-grades?
They are exactly the same. And Pfizer isn't expressing much confidence in their drug any more.
two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant
It might still lessen severity of illness, but given Omicron appears to present as a common cold in most….
Hmmmm….
Official roll-back of the "fear porn"…
https://twitter.com/cwt_news/status/1480309340447903744?s=20
Further information
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
If they didn't die of covid, then where are all the extra dead people coming from?
No idea what you mean, but re that video, it's been snipped to manipulate.
Here are the longer versions of the interview,
https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1480710199203844098
I don't have time to pick apart the tweet you posted, other than to say fact checking this took me less then five minutes.
Here's a fact check post,
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/walensky-covid-comorbidities
My view is the biggest co morbidity that there is is not having had the vaccination.
When I read about people dying of Covid that is the first query I have.
I realise we are going to have breakthroughs to vaccinated people. .
good point.
Bingo!
From StatsChat
https://www.statschat.org.nz/2022/01/11/why-screening-is-hard/
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
My thoughts exactly!
Why did you present this version Bill, and not the actual real version that Weka has found?
Pop culture round up
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Eagle Fang for life!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2SLqLYzJPI
It's on my list, lol
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Also saw Dune: fecking awesome.
You'll like Cobra Kai, especially season 4
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/tim-miller-terminator-dark-fate-scares-internet-trolls-1202156922/
and it bombed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator:_Dark_Fate
Woke/Intersectional/whatever you call it is bad for movies.
What other examples do you want,?
Charlies Angels: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/elizabeth-banks-faces-backlash-charlies-angels-interview/
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/birds-of-prey-harley-quinn-less-male-gaze-margot-robbie-1202148124/
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Thank goodness
many of those films I haven't seen.
But the point is that I'm not sure GB:afterlife wouldn't have been dumbed down a bit if it cost twice as much to make.
Trust me on this and don't watch them, they're not even worth pirating because you won't get your time back
I think its also a case of the cheaper the budget the less likely you'll get studio interference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(2019_film)
As a prime example
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was
ripped off from"an homage to" some other movie.But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
I liked the scene where he shot Robert De Niro…or did he
It looked very familiar from somewhere
Quite similar to Frank Millers The Dark Knight Returns I thought
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
You should read it as its very good however I will say the artwork isn't quite to my taste
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
Ads would certainly kill it
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/marokopa-mystery-father-tom-phillips-charged-with-wasting-police-resources-fails-to-show-at-court/AQEB7QJQDRLFRHJXTQ2UJC6GIM/
… … … …
This is now getting pretty odd. Forgetfulness, or avoidance? One wonders if Mr Phillips might be in need of psychiatric or psychological help.
Those poor kids…
in need of psychiatric or psychological help
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-investigating-threat-against-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-delivered-to-kerikeri-homes/5P4GZIN3GGVF25FYIH3MCHAXPQ/
… … … … …
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
Hillbillies in the Bay of Islands?? Has Kerikeri really drifted that far down-market?
🤔
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
This earth plain?
when english might be your second language?
Can't spell meets new-age claptrap, I reckon.
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
Kerikeri is no exception,.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
'' She is killing our people.'' '' Our means to live'' Business owner? A Maori?
They can spell 'Eradicate''. They know what that word means, but they cannot spell ''Plane'' in the right context?
The a in ''happy'' is suss.
The h is suss.
Seems to me an attempt to disguise handwriting. What the writer doesn't know is that can never be done 100% successfully.
Felt pen and I assume thick paper, may hint at craft use, or a business back room?
If the ivermectin doesn't work, the FLCCC, 'Murica's front line covid-19 critical care alliance quacks, have a few suggestions.
https://twitter.com/twinkbride/status/1480205837721391112
Tuesday the 11th
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
Two hours ago
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Pfizer announced about 24 hours ago they will have a vaccine for the Omicron variant available by March of this year.
It probably means the other Covid vaccine producers will have one for Omicron available around the same time.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
If not, why not?
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers [Vaccination status of total cases & hospitalisations in Delta outbreak]
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Song for dennis since he gave us an interesting conversation the other night
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_LDeUEiWY
thanks, I remember when that album arrived in '72, folks around me playing it
paradoxical song eh? does seem to evoke depths of human nature & mass psychology
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .