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Open Mike 12/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 12th, 2019 - 84 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

84 comments on “Open Mike 12/02/2019 ”

  1. Jenny - How to get there? 1

    Empire watch:

    Only three days left before the US becomes an autocratic one party state. 

    And President Trump tells the US Congress; “You’re Fired!”

    Not just Mexico will pay, the whole world will pay.

    Trump: ‘There’s a good chance we’ll have to’ declare a national emergency to build the wall
    President Donald Trump on Friday said, “I think there’s a good chance we’ll have to” declare a national emergency in order to appropriate the funds to build his border wall.
    The remarks came as a specially created committee in Congress works to reach a compromise on border security before government funding expires on Feb. 15.

    Asked if he was concerned about courts halting an emergency declaration, Trump said, “We have very, very strong legal standing to win,” adding it would be “very hard” for a court to enjoin the declaration.
    Christina Wilkie – CNBC, February 1 2019

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/trump-good-chance-well-have-to-declare-national-emergency-for-wall.html

    ‘USA, USA, USA, USA’

    • Sabine 1.1

      yeah, yeah, any minute now.

      the us is already a totalitarian state. has been for some time now especially if you are person of color.

      good grief, is this giving you a case of heavy giggles?

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.1.1

        You don’t see it as a step change?

        The Weimar Republic wasn’t such a barrel of laughs, either. The Weimar Republic were responsible for smashing in Rosa Luxembourg’s head, a fact that the German Left couldn’t get over. And when faced with a greater danger, they couldn’t see it. And couldn’t agree to a common front against fascism with the Social Democrats. Who they labeled as ‘Social Fascists’ How wrong they were.

        You think it is going to be the same ol’, same ol’ ?

        There is a difference between imperialism and naked imperialism

  2. swordfish 2

    Latest Newshub Reid Research Poll:
    (A few Stats)

    ————-2017 Election—-TV3 Poll Feb 2019—-Change

    Labour——— 36.9 —————- 47.5 ————— Up 10.6

    Green———- 6.3 ——————- 5.1 ————— Down 1.2

    Lab+Green— 43.2 —————– 52.6 ————— Up 9.4

    NZF————– 7.2 ——————- 2.9 —————- Down 4.3

    Coalition——- 50.4 —————– 55.5 ————— Up 5.1

    .

    National——– 44.4 —————– 41.6 —————- Down 2.8

    ACT————— 0.5 ——————- 0.4 —————– Down 0.1

    Oppo———— 44.9 —————– 42.0 —————- Down 2.9

    (All other Parties)– 4.7 ————– 2.5 —————– Down 2.2

    .

    Coalition leads Oppo by– 5.5 —— 13.5 ————— + 8.0

    Coalition leads Right by— 5.2 ——- 12.4 ————– + 7.2

    .

    Preferred PM / Leader Performance
    (Comparisons with same point into first terms of Clark & Key Govts)

    Ardern more popular than Clark at the point into first term / Bridges less popular than Shipley the year she was rolled by the charismatic English

    Feb 2001——————————————-Feb 2019

    Preferred PM

    Clark .. 30 .. (performing well 63) ———– Ardern .. 41.8 .. (performing well 68.3)

    Shipley 13 .. (performing well 54) ———- Bridges …. 5.0 … (performing well 21.9)

    ——————————————————– Collins …… 6.2

    .

    Bridges less popular than Goff at the same stage:

    Feb 2010

    Key … 49.4 .. (performing well 73.5) …. Net …. plus 57.9

    Goff … 8.2 …. (performing well 33.7) ….. Net .. minus 12.9

    .
    Feb 2019

    Ardern… 41.8 .. (performing well 68.3) …. Net …. plus 51.5
    Bridges … 5.0 … (performing well 21.9) …. Net .. minus 28.9

    • Kat 2.1

      Interesting statistics. Listening to RNZ “National” this morning the disbelief with regards the poll was palpable. Espiner the Winston Slayer was more interested in Chinese whispering. Hawkesby over at aunty herald just can’t work out why Simon Bridges is so unpopular and she asks “what is it about Simon that voters don’t like”…….

      Going to be very noisy when all those pennies drop.

  3. adam 3

    46 seconds to laugh and cry.

  4. rata 4

    Labour’s hold on Government is based on a 73 year old maverick MP
    who’s party won 0 electorate seats and who 93%
    of the country did not vote for.
    National should cruise to victory in 2020.

    • ianmac 4.1

      When you pick your “facts” try and make them credible rata. Winston has won Northland and Tauranga electorates.
      If National banks on your wisdom of winning an election by only contesting NZF, they are very very silly people.

  5. A scathing critique.

    Last Tuesday, Todd Muller wrote an op-ed piece in The New Zealand Herald about what he’s learned in his first year as the National Party’s climate change spokesperson. Rod Oram goes through Muller’s text point by point, giving a response to each.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/02/09/431962/rod-orams-feb-8-column

    • vto 5.1

      Yep, that is certainly scathing.

      Oram shows up a classic National Party MP for the useless conservative he is.

      The National Party should really stop pretending to be progressive in any way. At least they would have integrity and credibility if they just came out and re-named themselves Conservatives.

      They don’t do anything.
      They can’t see the future.

      They are conservative, and should simply take their place as the ballast in the hull of the ship.

      Funny though that they always end up where the hippies were decades before – think Waiheke eh Michelle Boag …. or electric bikes, or organic food, or pottery (maybe not pottery)

      conservatives – limited use. Keep in the fridge until needed.

      • ianmac 5.1.1

        Neo-Liberalism, Free Market has allowed the 1% to become very very rich. (Oxfam reporting that 82 percent of the wealth produced in 2017 went to the top 1 per cent of the population.)
        The resistance to Climate change comes from the very very wealthy because the changes necessary to combat Climate Change will threaten the very very rich. For them it is not the Science it is the ideology.

        So writes Dr Neal Curtis.
        (Dr Neal Curtis is head of media and communication at the University of Auckland.)
        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@future-learning/2019/02/11/438169/climate-change-denial-not-about-the-science?preview=1

        No wonder National downplays Climate Change!

      • AB 5.1.2

        Though real conservatives should perform the useful function of stopping us doing new things that will be stupid or counter-productive. So real conservatives in the late 1980’s would have opposed the privatization of public assets that were natural monopolies. They would have opposed the replacement of progressive income tax with regressive consumption tax, etc, etc.

        So National are oddly useless even at being conservative. That’s because they oppose only those new things that will be good and vigorously support keeping on doing old things that will be bad (like exploring for new oil reserves). i.e., the complete opposite of what you really need in a conservative. Does this actually make them radicals rather than conservatives? God it’s confusing!

      • Macro 5.1.3

        Actually the root of the word “Conservative” is the same as that for “Conservation”.

        ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense ‘aiming to preserve’): from late Latin conservativus, from conservat- ‘conserved’, from the verb conservare (see conserve). Current senses date from the mid 19th cent.

        And in the early days that was what right wing politicians actually tried to do.
        It is ironic that those who call themselves conservative today, are in the main, the ones who by consistently maintaining their neoliberal free market led approach to the economy (which they perceive as being a superset to the environment, rather than a subset) are the very ones who are doing the most damage.

      • cleangreen 5.1.4

        Thanks vto that put as smile on my face.

        “conservatives – limited use. Keep in the fridge until needed”.

    • Adrian Thornton 5.2

      Thanks for that link, excellent stuff, Oram absolutely dismantles Muller, this is the sort of critical response we need to see, hear and read more of in our media, imagine applying the same robust logic to the ministers of housing or health today, exposing the inconsistencies of them desperately trying to cling on to their debunked economic ideology verses…the actual reality for most citizens.

    • “Greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide caused by the agricultural sector, by belching livestock and fertilisers, are thought to produce about half of all greenhouse gas emissions in New Zealand.

      So why did Kaikōura MP Stuart Smith take to Facebook last month to declare “Agriculture is NOT the major source of NZ’s greenhouse gas emissions”, refuting the stance of the Ministry for the Environment, Landcare Research, and the New Zealand Agricultural Greenhouse Gas Research Centre.”

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110499590/national-party-mp-unsure-whats-scientifically-accurate-wades-into-methane-debate

      The answer may surprise you – I thought he was just a thick, dim, dull gnat…

      • Pat 5.3.1

        he is…or deliberately obtuse

      • cleangreen 5.3.2

        Marty
        During some time we spent at Florida University in 1996 we were part of an environmental watchdog with Chemistry knowledge and found a term in a Oxford University reference book on scientific chemistry.

        This term was described as “Substitution reaction” which was described as a common law of physics and was a chemical reaction between several ‘elements’ that are freely spread around our open air space today.

        These three elements to produce an extremely toxic chemical once it is mixed in our air produces a banned chemical today that was called “Carbon Tetra-chloride that was used as a solvent and in fire extinguishers however the realisation that it is toxic has now been banned.

        An example is the reaction between methane and chlorine that is stable when in the dark but when it is in sunlight when exposed to ultra-violet radiation or when they are heated they react.

        The reaction produces a list of toxic alkanes as solvents such as ‘chloroform’and other highly toxic chemicals.

        So we are really now living among so many dispersed chemicals that we are now living in a dangerous world sadly due to the actions called “substitution reaction”.

  6. Adrian Thornton 6

    Tulsi Gabbard takes on Rep and Dem war machine….’NeoCons / NeoLibs never tire of WAR’

  7. Dennis Frank 7

    Toby Manhire has invented a new word: stinkerer. More significantly, he’s produced an unusual rabbit out of his hat. He articulates good reason to give Judith Collins some respect as a principled politician. Yeah, I know. Consider me the devil’s advocate. 😈 He quotes her, then draws his conclusion:

    “At its best, politics is the contest of ideas. It shouldn’t be about playing the game. It shouldn’t be about doing anything to win. It’s only by galvanising the base, by giving people a reason to care, that those more centrist will give the party a chance. If a party’s base doesn’t see why they’re bothering, then why should anyone else. No matter what side of politics people are, it’s always easiest to sell policies that you believe in.”

    “It seemed to me then, and still does now, as nothing less than a personal manifesto.” https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-02-2019/judith-collins-just-leapfrogged-simon-bridges-its-becoming-a-question-not-of-if-but-when/

    What impresses me is that she reveals more than a principled motivation. She displays nous as to how to get votes from centrists while taking a stand on principle. Since centrists always determine our election results, this forces me to upgrade her to 7/10 as a viable contender.

    • Adrian Thornton 7.1

      Centrists in New Zealand will eventually fail, just like it is all over the world, all it will take is for that firebrand ‘somebody’ to come along who will firstly ignite some real fire into the belly of their traditional base, be that Left or Right, and then use them to mobilize at least a good part of the missing million….goodbye (so called) centre.

      Liberal Centrism is already dead, it just doesn’t know it yet…and like any undead zombie, somebody will come along sooner or later and put a bullet in it’s head.

      • Gabby 7.1.1

        Extremists get people killed Ady. Most of us don’t fancy that too much.

        • Siobhan 7.1.1.1

          The point is that centrism leads to extremism as people slowly realise they are being politely and oh so nicely trode on..

          People live hopeless miserable lives and die prematurely every day thanks to austerity budgets and centrist policies, its just they do it quietly in the suburbs no one visits and they smile nicely when they drop off our Amazon parcels or hand us a flat white or their bond for the new flat.

          Centrism is extremism in my opinion.

          • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.1

            Say extremism in drag perhaps.

          • KJT 7.1.1.1.2

            “Centrism is just a mask for “please don’t scare the horses”.

            Chamberlain’s approach.

            Fell grossly short in the face of emerging disaster.

            We can have “peace in our time” and watch human civilization disappear, along with the environment, or we can fight. There is no middle ground.

            • greywarshark 7.1.1.1.2.1

              There is an interesting point about Chamberlains announcement of getting an agreement with Hitler. Apparently if he had come back and soon after declared war, the UK wasn’t ready for it. The following months enabled them to prepare and try to get planes particularly built in feverish haste.
              I don’t know if it was a planned subterfuge but it worked for the UK.
              It seems that managing something okay, is often down to quick thinking to remedy a possible blunder, micro managing in an emergency seems to be the most useful.

              • KJT

                Yep. Judgement in hindsight is often unfair.

                • greywarshark

                  Well i thought badly of Chamberlain too, but then found out this other side of the situation. And I don’t think we were being unfair, but isn’t it amazing how there is often another side to something that is not known and unconsidered that changes the aspect. It’s good to get the background later from people in the know. The layers of info, fascinating.

                  I read recently of Churchill’s fondness for one of his secretaries, who spent a lot of time with him, and stayed in his home. Churchill’s wife Clementine? felt lumbered with him.

                  She was great too.
                  https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/6-surprising-facts-about-clementine-churchill/

          • SpaceMonkey 7.1.1.1.3

            I see it more cyclical or even the yin and yang of each other. Each lead to the other.

        • KJT 7.1.1.2

          “Centrists” seem to be doing that rather well at present.

          From children dying of the diseases of poverty, in one of the worlds most resource rich countries, per capita, environmental destruction causing natural disasters killing millions, bombing the shit out of the middle East, the “sensible” middle, are racking up significant ‘butchers bills.

          Not to mention enabling the rise of Trump’s.

    • Muttonbird 7.2

      If your principles are to threaten public servants, collude with venal attack bloggers, pressure police to changing crime numbers, and use tax-payer funded trips to promote your spouse’s business interests, then yes, she is principled.

  8. WeTheBleeple 8

    While the US is led by an oil gimp there are many states acting independently to work on climate change initiatives.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/climate/states-global-warming.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Climate%20and%20Environment

    When people ignore poor leaders and act independently for the common good… The groundswell is beginning.

    Nice. Fuck the Feds.

  9. greywarshark 9

    First the people allowed the bees to die.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/382264/global-insect-decline-may-see-plague-of-pests
    (What can we do to prevent this?)

    Then the people were allowed to die by the zombie middle class.
    (The middle class contains the potential thinkers with a livable income and those who still see and are still in touch with the lower class – though at a distance.)

    Then the VIPs extended their lives with methods like scientific prophylactics.
    ( Book – Trouble With Lichen by John Wyndham,

    Tv film Cold Lazarus by Denis Potter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfEgdCu5RSM
    and Dennis Potter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAYckQbZWbU

    Film Cocoon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9BSsIX2j7M
    – Blurb – A fantasy to fill your heart. Fact: about some old people who want to
    live for ever enjoying themselves on a dream planet in space and go, leaving their daughter and their grandchild behind them as less important!)

    • cleangreen 9.1

      Greywarshark;

      “First the people allowed the bees to die”.

      That hit a nerve with me as I was poisoned in an un-ventilated building working as a telephone technician for six months.

      I came out as a vegetable afterwards, and someone said to me “you should have used the “Canary in the mine” sequence to tell you to get out if the canary died.

      We are now all Canaries in a mine called ‘earth’.

      So are the rich wanting us dead, so they can claim the planet for themselves?

      • greywarshark 9.1.1

        I think a clever little quote covers that cleangreen.
        Something like this would apply to the wealthy and their purposes.
        ‘Don’t get lost in the shuffle, shuffle along with the lost.’

        Frankly Scarlett, they ‘don’t give a damn’.
        (ex Gone with the Wind)

  10. Cinny 10

    Venezuela…..

    A partially loaded oil tanker from Saudi Arabia, Abqaiq, is due to arrive in Venezuela in the next 24 hours.

    The tanker can carry up to two million barrels of oil. It is the first time the kingdom is sending an oil tanker to Venezuela in two years

    Does this undermine the sanctions from USA? We all know trump is close to the Saudi’s and how slippery the saudi’s can be.

    Is the tanker delivering or collecting from Venezuela? If it’s delivering, then what’s on board…. light oil or something else?

    Might be nothing in it…then again…..

    Short clip 5 mins

  11. One Two 11

      “It’s often lost on the public just how badly they’re being screwed”

    The cellular networks will use frequencies that carry a lot of information but don’t travel very far.

    That means antennas need to be close together and will number in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. They’ll be closer to shops and homes than today’s arrays atop cell towers.

    • greywarshark 11.1

      Loggerheads. it appears USA tech move to 5G ‘Out Of Control’. (And this was in 2018.) Republican states are pushing the for-big-business approach. Corporates are changing agreements and inserting their preferred enablers. They have also infiltrated the regulatory body, the Federal Communications Commission.

      The effect of 5G is breaking new ground, and affects everybody.
      The 5G system is meant to replace today’s mobile wireless technology, making it easier to stream high-definition video anywhere and enable new kinds of apps.
      The cellular networks will use frequencies that carry a lot of information but don’t travel very far. That means antennas need to be close together and will number in the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions. They’ll be closer to shops and homes than today’s arrays atop cell towers.

      …cities, states, companies and interest groups together to devise guidelines for updating telecom infrastructure, a move that paves the way for self-driving cars and a world where every device connects to the internet.

      Big corporates are pushing the regulators and legislators. A committee within the Commission was formed for corporates and cities to discuss the technology and come to terms about its use.

      The group, with representatives of the business world outnumbering government officials four-to-one, may push for a vote on guidelines that have been under debate for more than a year.

      Companies and the FCC have expressed desire for “shot clocks,” a basketball metaphor that would automatically give carriers permission to install beacons if negotiations with cities aren’t resolved in a timely manner.

      “The problem with the debate is everyone is entrenched into their sides,” Bowles [replacement for Santosham (below) who has stepped down dissatisfied] said. “Every single member of the committee will have something in those documents that they don’t like. That’s what a compromise is. If AT&T is thrilled with it, then we didn’t do our job.”

      Too often, officials say, AT&T got its way. As committee members were returning …they got an email from Douglas Dimitroff, a telecom attorney and chairman of one of the group’s city-focused subcommittees. “We have made substantial changes to the last version,” he wrote …Then he thanked Chris Nurse, a senior executive at AT&T who proposed hundreds of revisions, according to a copy of the draft.

      [Sireen] Santosham [San Jose official and member of the FCC.] protested. Sam Cooper, a senior technology adviser to New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, wrote: “Shotclocks. Object.” Even a telecom consultant said the revisions were unfair, tilted in favor of wireless companies like AT&T at the expense of cable providers like Comcast Corp. “AT&T has generally driven the bus,” said Angela Stacy, a committee member who’s vice president at a software company for cities called Connected Nation Exchange.

      “The criticism speaks for itself — it’s baseless,” Republican FCC Chairman Ajit Pai said Wednesday in an interview. “I’m not going any further.” FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly has accused some officials of trying to “impose their will or extract bounties from providers” and suggested San Jose was seeking “high rents and fees.” AT&T said in an emailed statement that the city-focused working group had unanimously consented to a plan that will be presented to the full committee on Wednesday….

      The influence of Big Telecom inside the FCC has already spread into state capitols. More than a dozen states, mostly in Republican strongholds, have passed laws borrowing similar language from the 5G committee. U.S. lawmakers are drafting legislation along similar lines. “This is the biggest movement in broadband that we’ve seen in recent history,” Santosham said.

      • One Two 11.1.1

        I posted the Bloomberg link as it is mainstream…

        When reading such articles and industry PR there are a lack of even the subtlest acknowledgement to consideration of the environment and those who exist because of it…

        Systems have evolved, life itself developed due to the universal frequencies which formed and shaped this incredible planet…over [however long]…

        And the digital man-made frequencies and technology, are destroying and will continue to destroy all that was created by univsersal frequencies…

        In the blink of an eye…

        Technology is being deployed for the purpose of machines…not biological beings and earths inhabitants…

        ‘Thinking’ such as that which drives ‘tech progress’ is root cause…

        • greywarshark 11.1.1.1

          One-Two
          The 5G thing was so interesting that I decided to read it right through and put up some main points. Bloody outrageous example of how these tech companies are becoming the looming monsters that you see in many computer games or on-line stories.

          It might be mainstream for you but who has time to read all the stuff that comes at you and take an interest in people and take an interest in the environment as well. So need you to draw attention and explain things a little.

          I did a moan on the one about 60Ghz? Just a few lines with some background names details so a reader can grasp the facts is needed. There is so much info to keep up with when one is interested in the people/techpolitics interface.

          And the digital man-made frequencies and technology, are destroying and will continue to destroy all that was created by univsersal frequencies…

          The ordinary person has never thought of the underwater sound and the frequencies situation. I wonder will the plovers be able to fly down from Russia any more.

          The mad following that has been drummed into school kids that tech is the only way and your life revolves around it blah. There is no outdoors, no rest for the soul, you must take your cellphone everywhere and machines are everywhere allowed to menace and stress you when you walk.

          • One Two 11.1.1.1.1

            There certainly are an unlimited number of angles that information can enter the consciousness from, GW…

            Frequencies formed the universe, and they govern every facet of planet earths capacity to create life and to support life…life should be thriving…it has in times past…in natural cycles…

            Life is no longer thriving on this planet…it’s being depleted and extinguished…population growth and life expectancy are a mirage obscuring the truth of degradation and ‘health conditions’ which, if the technology behemoths continue onwards, looks certain to lead to an uninhabitable planet…certainly from a biological organism viewpoint…

            I’ve said it previously…the conveniently named 5G is designed for machines to communicate with machines..

            The entire design is for machines to thrive…

            Humans are the collatoral sold BS about faster internet, as if connectivity speeds are not already adequate for human purposes…

            Capacity for the imagined ‘smart cities’ which are entirely machine based, imagined to monitor and manage all aspects of ‘life’…is inadequate so big tech has banked its future on trillions of dollars required to build…skynet…the financiers are invested…the sick care companies are standing by to profit from increased illness…the insurance companies are…well…not going to insure against 5G…

            Better hope that physics pulls the plug…because the humans won’t…

            • cleangreen 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Bloody true that is One Two.
              Our brain and body can only cope with a certain range of frequencies.

              • One Two

                Also, that the cumulative build up from man made polluting environments, is completely untested, while human illness and ‘health conditions’ increase at greater rates and in younger cohorts…

                Something(s ) are causing the rapid rise in health related issues…

                Perhaps we should seek to remove pollutants, including technological based systems from our environments, not argue the toss about which singular toxin is perhaps responsible for a singular ailment…while bring every more untested and toxic technologies into the environment…

                Meanwhile, human health, the environment and natural worlds are deteriorating at rapid pace…

                The technology is part of the problem, so when some here want to pretend to care about climate change…while endorsing the release of well documented damage causing technology….they are either ignorant or dishonest…

  12. Observer Tokoroa 12

    The Gross Mess

    The Strange people who suck their way into “media” and into the “Gross ” party simply do not realise what a mess they have made.

    It is not possible to Pay very low wages to your working slaves – and then to make sure they cannot ever afford a house – And then expect you biased RATS to be voted into power.

    Nor is is possible to charge Rents that take every last dollar out of the pocket of your working slaves – And then expect you biased RATS to be voted into power.

    You have bungled, scummed, and shat on the NZ Public for every day you have had Breath.

    The women in the Media are marginally worse than the so called journalists. But Simon and the Angry Lille dishonest Collins won’t be seeing their names in Stars for very long.

    Neither will Mrs Bennett.

    All of you have taken Housing and Fair go – off Kiwis. The Public of New Zealand did not and do not deserve you Bastards.

  13. veutoviper 13

    First sitting day for Parliament in 2019

    Here is the Order Paper for today.

    No Question Time, with the PM making a statement (20 mins) then a debate of up to 13 hours, with other specified Party Leaders also given 20 mins each, then other Members, 10 min speeches.

    https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/OrderPaper_20190212/b9f5f79d5802665569ee0408fabaa6e7caadb2f4

    • Cinny 13.1

      13 hours of debate… dang !!!

      • veutoviper 13.1.1

        Not all today!

        Unless they go to extended hours, usual sitting hours for a Tuesday – 2-6pm then 7.30pm to 10pm. Same tomorrow and then Thursday, 2pm – 6pm only.

        So on usual hours, provided they don’t debate any other business (eg legisiation) the 13 hours could be over by close of play tomorrow night or Thurs afternoon. I presume that there will be a Question Time plus general debate tomorrow (c. 2hrs total) plus Question Time on Thursday. If so, then the debate will probably finish by close of play Thurs.

        • veutoviper 13.1.1.1

          Correction:

          According to Trevor Mallard on Parl TV online, the debate will begin with leaders’ speeches and then adjourn and onto BAU (Govt Orders of the Day) with Members’ speeches spread over the next few weeks.

          • Cinny 13.1.1.1.1

            Thanks VV, coolies, I can work with that lololz 🙂

            Doing jobs around the house over the next few days, parliament audio in the background. Swim break at the river when the girls get home from school 🙂

  14. mosa 14

    Five endangered albatross die on one long line
    Tuesday, 12 February 2019, 11:03 am
    Press Release: Forest And Bird

    Forest & Bird is appalled to learn that five critically threatened Antipodean albatross have died in a single long lining incident, only 24 hours after revelations that four endangered Hectors dolphins were killed in a trawl net.

    Five Antipodean albatrosses and one Gibson’s albatross were killed when they were caught by a longline fishing vessel in the Bay of Plenty region between 2 December 2018 and 4 January 2019.

    “Antipodean Albatross are as endangered as kakapo, and unless we fix our broken commercial fishing system, they will be extinct within 20 years. These needless and cruel deaths are appalling, and completely unacceptable,” says Forest & Bird Oceans Advocate Karen Baird.

    “The albatross deaths were reported by an official MPI observer, but only a minority of fishing boats have observers on board. In the meantime, a few bad apples in the fishing industry are stalling the Government’s Cameras on Boats programme. This means no one has any idea how many precious native birds and dolphins are being killed in nets and on lines out at sea.

    “MPI have pointed out that the fishing crew were operating entirely within the law. Imagine a law which permitted limitless accidental kakapo deaths at the hands of any industry. It is abundantly clear that a system which allows endangered species to be killed as ‘incidental by-catch’ by the fishing industry is completely broken.

    “New Zealand must stand up to fishing companies like Talley’s and Te Ohu Kaimoana, who are pressuring the Government to delay the Cameras on Boats programme and keep New Zealand in the dark about their true impact on our native animals,” says Ms Baird.

    “These albatross deaths are just the ones we know about. It is highly likely that many more deaths go unreported, and that New Zealand will be robbed of this majestic species by a few companies that only care about their own profit.”

    • Cinny 14.1

      There needs to be camera’s on large vessels.

      How many fisherman have turned a gun on birds…. more than people realise…..birds are predators of fish.

      Just make sure no gun pallets land in the fish bins. What goes on at sea stays at sea….

      The fact that Peter Talley attended Winstons speech at the Motueka RSA just before the election spoke volumes to me. Never seen PT at any other candidates meetings over the years, he’s extremely private in that respect.

    • mosa 14.2

      No right turns perspective.

      Two-faced criminals
      Last year, in a desperate attempt to regain social licence, the fishing industry ran an expensive series of TV ads assuring us that they had nothing to hide. Meanwhile, they were furiously lobbying the Minister to oppose video monitoring of fishing boats:
      At the same time as the seafood industry was placing adverts on television last year proclaiming it had “nothing to hide”, it was writing to the minister, Stuart Nash, expressing its “overwhelming opposition” to the idea of cameras on board its boats to monitor what they were up to.

      The letter, released under the Official Information Act, said its purpose was to “dismiss any suggestion that the ‘New Zealand Seafood industry’ supports the current proposal”.

      For the removal of any doubt the words “do not support” were underlined.

      Some of the signatories were redacted but amongst those still visible are managers at Talley’s, Sealord, the Federation of Commercial Fishermen and Te Ohu Kai Moana, representing Māori fishing interests.

      Forest and Bird spokesperson Karen Baird said it was a case of them saying one thing publicly while working towards a quite different outcome behind the scenes.

      So I guess they do have something to hide after all. But what could it be? The illegal dumping of less-valuable fish? The criminal doctoring of records to understate catches? Or maybe the failure to report catching and killing endangered species? The problem here is that the fishing industry is pervasively criminal. They need to be treated as such, and monitored and prosecuted until they change their behaviour. Instead, our government – bought and paid for by Talley’s – is doing the exact opposite.
      Posted by Idiot/Savant at 2/07/2019 01:53:00 PM

      • mosa 14.2.1

        Another elephant in Jacinda’s room.

        Getting what they paid for
        A political party makes strong promises to regulate a destructive industry and prevent it from engaging in widespread criminal behaviour. They are elected to government. But their coalition partner includes an MP who was paid $10,000 by that industry. That MP argues from within government against regulation, and successfully prevents the government from enacting meaningful reform.

        If this happened in Africa, or the Pacific Islands, we’d call it what it is: corruption. But it has happened here. The industry is the fishing industry. And the MP is Shane Jones, who took $10,000 from Talleys in 2017 in addition to large donations in the past, and has claimed responsibility for preventing any independent review of the fisheries industry. The government has recently shitcanned plans to use video cameras on fishing boats, and announced plans to lower criminal penalties when fishers break the law – and there is a suspicion that Jones is behind both of these moves too. So it looks like Talleys is very definitely getting what they paid for.

        So how do we stop this? Fundamentally, we need to remove the ability of corporations to buy favourable treatment with large political donations. And that means moving to publicly funded political parties. Its either that, or allowing corruption to continue unchecked.

        Posted by Idiot/Savant at 2/05/2019 03:11:00 PM

    • Stuart Munro 14.3

      No excuse for it – the setting protocol to stop longline albatross kills was well established back when I was MAF observing. Here’s a Mediterranean version:
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150310131920.htm

      Skippers used to be good about it – a hook with a bird on it never has a fish on it. Guess they got slack under the Key “administration”.

  15. Seriously – stop the stupid bloody blackface bullshit.

    “The turtleneck black wool balaclava jumper, which sells for US$890 ($1300) on one site, covers the nose and includes a red cut-out for the mouth. It was ridiculed on social media as insensitive and racist…”
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/fashion/110444492/gucci-pulls-blackface-sweater-from-stores-after-complaints?rm=a

    ​”Katy Perry’s shoe label is the latest brand to come under fire for featuring items that resemble blackface.”
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/fashion/110528986/katy-perrys-shoe-collection-pulls-two-styles-over-blackface-controversy

    And for those that may think I’m over reacting check out what they look like from the links – so nad they’re lol

  16. Ad 16

    President Trump is holding a pro-wall rally in El Paso Texas. Next Monday.

    Which is also home to Beto O’Rourke.

    Rally and counter-rally planned.

    Can anyone figure why Trump would hold a wall rally in a fully Democrat town?

    Its like he’s baiting Beto to run against him.

  17. ianmac 17

    Jacinda is delivering a stirring State of the Nation address.
    Refreshing. Succinct. Inspiring.
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/

  18. ianmac 18

    And now Mr Bridges performing predictably. Oh dear.
    The great watch is the Paula Bennett facial contortions. She must have very fit facial muscles.

  19. ianmac 19

    Winston as usual hugely entertaining. He is really demolishing Simons attempted speech.

    • Cinny 19.1

      +1 Ianmac

      Love his style in the house and his extraordinary knowledge base, Winston is an outstanding orator.

      Winston is totally owning simon, super funny.

      Edit…. i think simon has run away lolz

    • Line of the day so far from the Greens Chloe Swarbrick to Simon Bridges: “We’re polling higher than you are!’

    • ianmac 19.3

      Winston’s final words to the Opposition was that “when you realise that your net is full of holes, use a new net.”

    • veutoviper 19.4

      Anyone watching Paula Bennett?

      Interesting, as the shouty, handwaving performance/persona of 2018 has diminished. Miss Reasonable and can work with others, could even agree to a working group on the cannabis referendum etc

      I still think that she thinks that she should/could be leader and that she may well make a play for the leadership in the near future …

      • Muttonbird 19.4.1

        She behaves a lot like Key in her dealing with the media. Forcefully positive with that great big plastic smile, and dominating the one on one with reporters from before she comes to a stop. She almost dares the media to challenge her, the individual, rather than the job she might be doing.

        She has all of Key’s faults too. She’s dismissive and smarmy. Passionate, yet devoid of compassion.

      • Robert Guyton 19.4.2

        She’s preparing to step up, imo. And being groomed for the attempt. She’ll get it too.

        • Muttonbird 19.4.2.1

          Prime Minister Benefit has nice odd ring to it.

          Problem for her is that she doesn’t have the crystal clear backstory Key did. There are a few grubby holes which she has already had to use lawyers to close.

          JA by comparison is an angel. This will always be the case.

        • greywarshark 19.4.2.2

          I’ve noticed her shed her puppy fat – she’s been remodelled by someone smart from the ground up and is match fit I reckon. And with the drive to win and succeed.

          I think you make an error in that judgment M. She reminds me of Trump. People have said that he’s a rotten businessman, he’s been bankrupt two or thee times. I say that he is a clever businessman and knows how to slide through all the loopholes and still ride high. Poorer will be the same, jump high with her wonderwoman smile over all obstacles.

  20. Kay 20

    An interesting encounter with a Winz office today which has left me feeling a tad encouraged although it will never be possible to completely relax around them given the 9 years of hell we had to endure.

    This was my first face to face meeting with them since the new regime (couldn’t put it off any longer) and supposed introduced ‘compassion’. In a nutshell, not asked for ID once, at the door, reception or by case worker. Treated as a human being every step of the way, Case worker actually applied common sense and discretion where it was called for and clearly their computers are no longer rigged so it can’t be. Also offered me a food grant that I never asked for but certainly didn’t say no to given they’ve been illegally underpaying me for years.

    I did start out very much on the defensive- automatic reaction to that place- but I did not leave a jibbering wreck, bawling my eyes out and likely to find myself hospitalised with some seizure drama a la last time I had to do some similar paperwork under the previous regime. So swallows, summer etc still have to apply, and I’m sure there’s still people in other parts of the country who are not being treated as well, for the first time 2009 I’m not terrified to have dealings with Winz. So it looks like the outward changes are kicking in, a small start but a long way to go.

    • Cinny 20.1

      That’s really encouraging to hear Kay. Awesome news, thanks for sharing.

    • ianmac 20.2

      Great refreshing experience, thanks Kay.

    • veutoviper 20.3

      So good to hear, Kay. Long may it last. I actually had the same experience mid-2018 when I had a meltdown with them but that was with Seniors section – massive improvement, and now have a personal case worker who I can ring and ask for him to call me, or I can directly email. Every time I have done so to date, he has been back to me within a couple of hours max. and things get sorted pronto.

      IIRC you’re in SE Wellington aren’t you? If so, was that in Newtown or Willis St? I certainly have noted the difference the few times I have had to pop into one or other of those service centres with papers or have gone as a support person, although I haven’t done the latter very much recently.

      Talking to other people both under 65s and over 65s who are ‘WINZ clients’ (plus some staff) , change is certainly on the way but, as you say, still a long way to go. Changing staff attitudes is a big part of that, but it seems that this is certainly underway with quite a few staff being moved on if they cannot adjust.

    • Anne 20.4

      What I find interesting about your experiences Kay is that Winz staff seem to change their persona and perceptions according to whoever is in power.

      When I was looking after my aged mother in the 1990s I copped the Christine Rankin years which were pretty bad.. At that time many professional people – who had lost their positions due to the restructuring of the Public Service – found themselves on the dole for a period. They and I were treated like ignorant malingerers and were accordingly dealt to by the Winz staff. After some 30 plus years in the P.S., I was scheduled to attend a workshop teaching me how to dress and speak properly at job interviews. I never turned up and told them in no uncertain terms why. They left me alone after that. 🙂

      Years later under the Helen Clark govt., I had cause to visit the local Winz office and saw the same woman who had treated me like a malingerer… all smiles and helpfulness towards the client sitting opposite her.

  21. Observer Tokoroa 21

    When News is withheld
    ZB Bunnys

    There is a group of Media known as News ZB which claims to be the Premiere sauce of News in this Land. It also claims you can listen to it Free. Which perhaps is not entirely true.

    A chap called Hosking, hosts news and Entertainment for ZB Media.

    He and Mrs Hosking have recently shouted out that they have bought a low cost Millionaire slum House somewhere in shabby old Auckland. Yes the Same Auckland that is racing out to decent Pastures. Elsewhere.

    Elsewhere doesn’t really want them. But that is beside the Point.

    Mr Hosking has been rabbiting on for years. He has been one of many National Governments that have made sure NZ workers are paid Low Low Wages. No New Zealand worker can ever afford a House in New Zealand now or in the future. Thanks to ZB And its babySister – The Herald.

    Also Mr Hosking is one of the many unstable National Governments which has Forced Chronically Expensive exorbitant Rents on people who own no homes.

    Nice People the ZB Media. A crushing Cruel slob mob – News ZB. You should get to Know them.

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