Why is the BBC permitted, day after day after day, to pump out programming which actively promotes a political programme far to the right of where the British population actually stand? With the continual over-representation of nutty right wing groups like the Taxpayers’ Alliance and the Henry Jackson Society, while left wing groups of much larger membership such as Stop the War are completely ignored. Why low tax campaigners but no invitation ever to groups like Black Triangle who represent claimants interests? Not to mention the routine ignoring of the SNP, parliament’s third largest party.”
This is why State owned media is a bad idea. Even an organisation set up to attempt to be unbiased like the BBC gets accused of bias by people and then they start discussing his it can become more “unbiased”. This is usually code for ‘agree with my side more.
No. That’s why state-funded media is essential. Because it’s the only organisation that will ever be under any meaningful obligation to be impartial.
It’s that fact that makes the debate Ed started even possible. Nobody expects state-funded media to do a perfect job, but at least the obligation is there.
I agree.
We just have to deal with the bias of the senior executives at RNZ.
Why so many Taxpayers’ Union New Zealand Initiative stories?
Why the acceptance of neoliberal premises on economics?
Why the framing of stories from a right wing agenda?
Fortunately we now have alternative news sources to show the lies the mainstream runs.
@Ed +1 You can add to your list…
Why financial updates all through out the day, but no workers news?
Why is it RNZ have nearly all domestic and international financial/economic analysis done by bank economist?…economists who have a ideology that is based on selling and profiting from debt.
State-funded media doesn’t have to be one single entity that might dominate the media landscape. Nor does it have to mean an entity where the Board & Chairman are appointed by the Government of the day. Nor does it have to mean an entity with strict hierarchical structure with strict managerial and editorial over sight where decisions by others are controlled and overruled by superiors all the way to the top. And it also doesn’t have to mean a Charter that demands financial/operational return AKA profit and dividends (to the Government).
Rather than having a one-size-fits-all entity or set-up why not reflect our society’s diversity and pluralism and fund that adequately? Media should cater for all citizens and inform the people so that they can make their own judgements if they wish …
Riiight – and that wretched chip wrapper The Herald never interferes politically at the editorial level? The state model is sound – the only commercial enterprise that even approaches the BBC or Al Jazeera for quality is Reuters.
Gosman: talking the obvious unaccountability of private news organisations you have guaranteed politically based interference in what the populace receives and no one can say a word.
Talking the obvious accountability of state news organisations you have at least the formal capacity for the populace to holler like hell if/when there is the appearance or fact of political interference.
I see you’re still exercising risibly twisted, absolutist zealotry; oligarchs = good while the people = bad.
Sure but again independent journalists also have their own bias.
I try to read everything from a multitude of sources. I read The Standard as much as I read Kiwiblog (though I’d never lower myself to comment there). I read the New Yorker, The Atlantic, Fox News, BBC, NYT, Washington Post, The Listener, AJZ, CNN, NBR , the list goes on and on.
It gets fucking tiring but I’m a news junkie. Then there’s the science mags and the books….it’s a wonder I manage to have job and raise a child while maintaining an alcohol habit.
Sure but again independent journalists also have their own bias.
And there’s nothing that we can or should do about that – except demand that they provide proof and not just ‘reckons’ as we get from so many talking heads in the private sector.
State-ownership, in my view, ought to mean that it is owned and managed by the state on behalf of all citizens and it has a (social) mandate to deliver (a service or product) for the public good, not for (financial) profit to the owners. This doesn’t make it immune from political meddling but any (political) benefits may be harder to obtain (and hide from public view) as they tend to be more indirect (arm’s length influence and control). State-owned media have a fundamentally different mandate and governance compared to privately-owned media unless they’re run strictly as a business in the common sense in which case it is an easy step for National & ACT to sell/privatise.
State owned media is no less biased than private media. The difference is our taxes don’t fund private media. State run media is totally surplus to requirements in a modern society.
Sure a state can run a lame media – Pravda or RT – but not all states do.
What’s wrong with the MSM is not state interference, but commercial interference. Murdoch etc. The useless ZB network. Fox.
The citizen has no comeback against their shit short of shutting them down. When you see the crap NZ TV has become it’s looking like a pretty good option.
Who said anything about state propaganda? Can you provide an example of “state propaganda” on TVNZ or RNZ. Be specific: quote the actual article in question and explain how it qualifies.
“What’s wrong with the MSM is not state interference, but commercial interference. ”
Commercial interference is paid for by commercial interests. State interference (and it is endemic in state media) is paid for by tax payers. Stop it all.
That isn’t what you claimed. You claimed them as an example of “state propaganda”. So you’ve now abandoned that claim and are claiming bias.
But once again, you’ve failed to provide any examples of this bias, although perhaps you mean Matthew Hooton.
I expect you’ll cite John Campbell as an example, but then you’d have to show how Checkpoint exhibits a “state” bias, as opposed to John Campbell’s. And if your only objection is that individual hosts bring their own biases to the mix, RNZ is doing no more or less than whoever it is that employs Hoskings et al, and RNZ has the advantage of a wider spectrum of views.
Perhaps it’s that advantage that you don’t like. The very idea that the state might provide something more useful (and popular) than the “free” “market”.
Unless you can link to a specific example of “state propaganda”, that is. Tumbleweeds?
“You claimed them as an example of “state propaganda”.”
Where?
“So you’ve now abandoned that claim and are claiming bias.”
Well when the Minster of Broadcasting has a clandestine meeting with a senior RNZ executive, that both try to hide, I’d say that was a pretty good example of at least an attempt at state influence. Of course you support the Greens, so you are in bed with liars and cheats.
Whereas I’m happy to provide it on my “dime”, and since at the last count far more people support my position (even the Trashional Party funds RNZ when in government) than yours, I’m pretty sure we can do without your petty contribution. Tell you what, we’ll fund the things we like and you can contribute to David Seymour’s taxpayer funded trough, eh.
On this issue, I’m also in bed with the NZLP, NZF and National. We’re having a great time while you’re in line to practise necrophilia with Ayn Rand, and Don Brash took your place in the queue 😉
On what issue? The welfare cheat? The MP who worked for war criminals while claiming to be bringing them to justice? The MP who has gone on to head an organisation who are bullying people for donations?
The continued funding of RNZ. Perhaps if you and Don pooled your resources you could afford a couple of clones of Ayn, and they could humiliate and despise you just like the original.
In case you missed it, the ‘liars and cheats’ I was referring to were the Greens. Here, you’ll get the idea if you read my comment “Of course you support the Greens, so you are in bed with liars and cheats.”https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12-05-2018/#comment-1483690
You provided your own example. Do you seriously want me to post examples of state media propaganda from China, Russia, etc etc? If you don’t think it can happen here, perhaps you missed the meeting between Clare Curran and Carol Hirschfeld?
I don’t click on the Herald’s links – following others in boycotting it since its ghastly rubbish a couple of weeks back,
The Herald is rapidly becoming an echo chamber for Farrar and his crazed right wing friends.
You mentioned “Red Radio”, aka RNZ. Provide a specific example of an RNZ article that constitutes “state propaganda”.
You freely admit “commercial interference” in commercial radio. You allege that similar interference, specifically “state propaganda” exists in local state owned media, and cite RNZ as an example.
Yet you can’t point to a single article to illustrate your argument. Don’t get me wrong, I know you’re full of shit, but you might at least make some flailing attempt to justify your conspiracist delusions.
“Provide a specific example of an RNZ article that constitutes “state propaganda”.”
All bias on red radio represents state propaganda. Note, not government propaganda. State propaganda. Now John Campbell is biased, and I have no problem with that on private media, but not on my dime.
“You allege that similar interference, specifically “state propaganda” exists in local state owned media…”
No, never said ‘local’.
“and cite RNZ as an example.”
I asked you a question about Red Radio and provided evidence of at the very least interference – Curran’s meeting with Hirschfeld.
But wait, there’s more:
“When Metiria Turei announced she was stepping down from Parliament, Radio NZ’s Checkpoint host John Campbell was a paragon of empathy and compassion, writes Liam Hehir.”
“Like many news agencies, Radio NZ has a mild centre-left bias. If you don’t believe it, my guess would be that you probably have a centre-left disposition yourself.” https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/99720488/radio-new-zealand-should-appoint-its-own-ombudsman
“Matthew Hooton broadcasts state propaganda. Good to know ”
No, he doesn’t broadcast it, but he participates in it. You see, Blokey, with private broadcasters we can discern the bias and we’re not paying for it. With public broadcasting we’re getting propaganda and paying for it. No thanks.
Explain it yourself, you rude prick. You don’t get to make demands: you get to provide some supporting evidence for your assertions of “propaganda”. Put up or shut up.
Advertisers? Oh, that’s o.k. then as that would make private broadcasters immune from political meddling because political parties and their lobbyists never take out ads in MSM, never ever. And private broadcasters only broadcast direct messages on behalf of their advertisers, like shampoo manufacturers. That’s why all talkback shows, for example, are about shampoo and other commodities and never about politics. I mean, I can tell when an ad is about shampoo although sometimes it is hard to discern at first because it could also be a lipstick ad …
Talking of lipstick, do you know whether Mike Hosking and Simon Bridges use the same brand of hair gel, by any chance?
One last question, who’s paying the advertisers?
And one very last question, I promise, are advertising and marketing expenses tax deductible in NZ?
“…because political parties and their lobbyists never take out ads in MSM, never ever.”
Of course they do. That’s the point…they are the ones paying, not the taxpayer.
“And private broadcasters only broadcast direct messages on behalf of their advertisers, like shampoo manufacturers.”
Of course not. They broadcast their opinion. How many awards did Newstalk ZB receive at the recent Radio Awards?
You seem to believe private commercial interests having opinions and broadcasting them is bad. It isn’t. What is bad is the government owning the medium for broadcasting ideas.
“One last question, who’s paying the advertisers?”
People who voluntarily buy their products.
“And one very last question, I promise, are advertising and marketing expenses tax deductible in NZ?”
Of course. They are a cost of deriving assessable income.
So, private broadcasts are full of political and other direct and indirect advertising but that’s o.k. because the consumers pay for it; the consumers who are also the Taxpayers.
The only accountability and transparency, if any, is to the private owners of the station; the consumers/Taxpayers will have no idea who’s influencing them.
As long as the funding does not come directly from the Taxpayers any opinion or influence that the private broadcaster wants to send out for whatever reason and on whomever’s behalf without either the listeners or consumers/Taxpayers fully in the know is perfectly fine.
All this is perfectly acceptable because consumers voluntarily buy (or not) the products of the advertisers in a free-market exchange. The commercial guys are so much more credit-worthy than politicians, aren’t they? [pun intended]
You do know the saying that if you don’t know what the product is … ?
All media carries bias. I’m fine with that as long as it is declared and I’m not paying for it. The government has no business in media, none. It is a risky and expensive business for little or no benefit. And I don’t trust government’s of any stripe to declare their bias and keep far away from propaganda.
As opposed to rigorously professional outfits like Fox News and MSNBC? You don’t have a clue.
Gosman, your comments are often ignorant and ill judged, but whatever you say this morning, no matter how ignorant and ill judged, will not be worse than what you inflicted on us a few days ago….
Similarly, Ed, I note that David Farrar and Jordan Williams’s ludicrous Taxpayers’ Union and the right wing New Zealand Initiative often set the agenda for “news” on both main TV channels, and on Radio New Zealand. The researchers and analysts of the universities and the unions, by contrast, are rarely given much consideration.
names are ( couldnt click and paste ,grrr)
Lisa Scott and Ian Telfer
Jo Mccarrol and Scott Campbell
max Ritchie and Niki Bezzant
Rosemary Macleod and Peter Fa’afui
garry Moore and Miriama Aoake
cas carter and Steve Mccabe
Jock Anderson and Mai Chen
Verity Johnson and Simon Pound
Peter Vial and Paula Penfold
Clare de Lore and Alan Blackman
Ella Henry and John Barnett
Micheal Moynahan and Penny Ashton
Minhingarangi Forbes Sam Johnson
Lynda Hallinan and Chris Clarke
Alexia Russel and Mike Rehu
Mike Williams and Michelle Boag
Bernard Hickey and jenny Moreton
neil Miller Alison Mau
Chris Waikira and Janet Wilson
Lisa Scott and Andrew Hoggard
Gary McCormick and Lizzie Marvelly
Michelle A’ court Peter Fa’aifu
Catherine Robertson and Peter Milne
Nadine Higgins and Matt Nippert
Thats over a months worth and quite a variety. Sometimes certain names are more memorable while a lot of the above arent too well known ( arent yet famous for being famous)
[1] vacuous; [2] supporter of Israeli government; [3] close links to National Party; [4] spouse of ex-National Party MP; [5] regularly expresses strident right wing views; [6];
Lisa Scott [1] and Ian Telfer
Jo Mccarrol and Scott Campbell [3]
max Ritchie [5] and Niki Bezzant
Rosemary Macleod [5] and Peter Fa’afui
garry Moore and Miriama Aoake
cas carter [1] and Steve Mccabe
Jock Anderson [5] and Mai Chen
Verity Johnson and Simon Pound
Peter Vial and Paula Penfold
Clare de Lore[4] and Alan Blackman [1]
Ella Henry [1] and John Barnett [2]
Micheal Moynahan and Penny Ashton
Minhingarangi Forbes and Sam Johnson [3]
Lynda Hallinan and Chris Clarke [1]
Alexia Russel and Mike Rehu
Mike Williams and Michelle Boag [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]
Bernard Hickey and jenny Moreton
Neil Miller [5] and Alison Mau
Chris Wikaira [2], [3] and Janet Wilson [5]
Lisa Scott [1] and Andrew Hoggard [1], [3], [5]
Gary McCormick and Lizzie Marvelly
Michelle A’ court Peter Fa’aifu
Catherine Robertson and Peter Milne
Nadine Higgins and Matt Nippert
Really? An ACT party member today?
Stephen was certainly an ACT MP from 1999 until 2005.
However he then joined the National Party and was on the National List in 2008. He has taken no active part in politics since then as far as I can see so, although he may still be a member of the National Party I have seen no evidence at all that he went back to ACT.
Do you have any?
When the comment made is in the present tense
“And look at the number of ACT members who get on Mora’s Panel”
one is certainly entitled to expect that you will find current members to nominate. If the best you can discover is someone who was a member a decade ago you are failing.
On your basis I am entitled to state that the Labour party is the arch-proponent of Rogernomics. You will have to agree if you think your own comment is accurate.
Oh dear, Alwyn… more punctilious crap. Franks remains ACT in thought and word whether he is a current member or not. Get your mummy to put you to bed instead of allowing you to post such rubbish. (I am returning a foolish insult you posted against me, just in case it escaped your university-qualified vigilance.)
Ed’s comment is about yet another Craig Murray opinion this time re the BBC. Hence UK related, not NZ; and not about the NZ Taxpayers Union.
The TaxPayers’ Alliance is a right-wing British pressure group and think tank formed in 2004 to campaign for a low tax society. The group, based in London, had about 18,000 registered supporters as of 2008, and claimed to have 55,000 by September 2010.
To go along to get along. The whole Thatcherite revolution was essentially a dumbing down and raising fears, all started with Murdoch lowering the bar and mulching any conflict against wealth. Press bias merely reflects the current elites unwillingness to pull its finger out, having been deluded into believing that the market will save their sorry arises if only they distrust the market of ideas that will save their sorry arises from being burnt to a cinder.
Shocking especially because they used to (and probably still do I expect) make everybody in Britain pay a yearly TV licence for the content which clearly should not be biased!!!
You want one image that shows how compromised the BBC has become.
Look at Jo Coburn’s face as the BBC cut an interview when one of their reporters says MI6 was involved in torture.
The media routinely take their lead from Slater and Farrar. Jim Mora references Farrar every second day, and has him on as a guest regularly. No doubt he’d do the same with Whalefat if he ever relaxed his ideological ban on appearing on “state media.”
Though remembering that it’s helpful to listen to which fear they are playing up. Of course if it’s all right-wing sledging then do what I do, avoid Hooten, Boag, Frank’s, and just pick one right-wing hack, it’s not like there is any depth to their messaging. Farrier is best of the boring fools.
Yeh, I have noticed that Mora has only just contained himself of the Asia peril at our doorstep re; China, lately…I am pretty sure he is going to slip on this one pretty soon.
Are you saying that giving a voice to the disenfranchised and holding power to account is inherently Left Wing?, because I can’t remember Campbell pushing any political ideology…maybe you can refresh me.
Given that David Farrar runs the most widely read blog in New Zealand, it is hardly surprising that media commentators refer to him.
And although Standardnistas won’t like this, David Farrar comes across as reasonably balanced, even if he is a well known supporter of National. It is some of his commenters that are extreme.
He regularly gives credit to the government when he thinks it is due. He is not so one-eyed that he condemns every single action of the government. Likewise he is critical of the opposition from time to time
” David Farrar comes across as reasonably balanced, even if he is a well known supporter of National. It is some of his commenters that are extreme. ”
If one were so inclined and had the ability and the facility, one could invent a persona, append a twitty pseudonym and spew vile hate speech unfettered on a totally un moderated website. It’d be like allowing one’s evil alter to have a ‘real life’ or in some cases ‘lives’.
Farrar allows those “extreme” commenters free reign…he is a despicable person.
Most people here know this….why would you even think it appropriate to try and defend the indefensible?
The scary thing is that I think you really believe this! Or do I hear a dog-whistle?
The fact that those “extreme” commenters are being ‘invited’ by the posts on KB written by DPF and other authors (…) seems to have escaped your thought. All propaganda has and starts with instigators too.
Further, DPF not only provides an inviting and welcoming forum with ample ‘food for thought’ for those “extreme” commenters but also cries that it is too hard to manage, which is just unbelievably pathetic and has a very disingenuous ring to it.
DPF may give token credit to the Government and express token criticism of the Opposition “from time to time” but that’s just pulling the wool over our eyes, isn’t it? Just like Simon Bridges strongly condemned the DP campaign against Clarke Gayford. Yeah, right!
No resignation calls for his disreslect to oyr falken? We would still be hearing about it if Shearer, Cullliffe, Little or Ardern had taken a taxpayer funded flight to Hawaii on hols instead
I”m [sic] not on Twitter very often and I think this shows why. Effectively, I was scrolling down and I saw a tweet that you’re referring to, I noticed it, I accidentally liked it, I got rid of that within literally a second and kept on moving.
Anyway, we now know Mr Bridges reads scrolls through tweets by WO. We also know that Mr Bridges easily lets his guard down when (or better: in spite of) reading tweets by WO – WO is a well-known and respected comedian in National circles and his tweets are often considered ‘funny’. Maybe Mr Bridges was not wearing his hat as Leader of the Opposition but tweeting in ’private capacity’.
He was just scrolling down tweets from WO, as you do, and literally liked it but that doesn’t mean he literally liked it as it is just one of those things you do when scrolling down through tweets from WO, literally.
In National nothing should be taken literally, only aspirationally. A brighter future for all literally means a slightly less dim future for the dimwits (AKA poor, workers, un- and underemployed, beneficiaries, most people) and a much brighter future for the few (AKA rich) but you cannot literally say that. Being on the cusp of something special literally means that you’ve got gas and have to do a fart but just like weeing in the shower you cannot literally say that in a public medium so you make it sound expirationally.
Anything that this Government says or does is literally bad, of course. It goes without saying that the Opposition and particularly the Leader of the Opposition without question and without reading literally poopoos everything from Government. Coincidentally, this comes naturally to National because they literally have no original ideas, which is why they scroll through WO tweets and KB and literally like posts and comments alike; in National they like what they like ad nauseam, literally.
My second share of the day are the words of a great New Zealander, Robin Westenra.
“Ecological and economic collapse in New Zealand
It will be only apparent to those paying attention but New Zealand is collapsing environmentally, socially, financially and politically, not to mention socially.
Every day we read headlines like this. The detail with which these questions are dealt with are usually in inverse proportion to the importance of the crisis in question.
People who react emotionally to things,mostly on social media, but are incapable (or unwilling) to analyse why this might be the case just blame the government.
It is really only the symptoms of social collapse that get any public attention.
While the previous government with its socially-destructive policies of austerity took this breakdown to new, unseen levels. But there is nothing unique in this and the result probably end up being the same.
We cannot look solely to economic policies.
What we are seeing is a neo-liberal response to a very real problem to ongoing and progressive collapse as a result of economic crisis arising out of energy decline along with ecological degradation and accelerating climate change.”
This is what happens when:
You let farmers take water to intensify dairy farming on the Canterbury Plains
You let farmers pump fertiliser into the land
You allow foreign corporations to take our water.
“Chlorine levels in some Christchurch water might be enough for swimming pool.”
Capitalism (and/or politics) may accelerate the process but physics dictate it….
“…A society in which depletion is advanced and M(p)
rapidly increasing relative to C(p), though, may not be able to escape catabolic
collapse even if such steps are taken. Cultural and political factors may also make
efforts to avoid catabolic collapse difficult to accomplish, or indeed to contemplate.”
That is shocking. Didn’t take long for the FBI to enter into the spirit of the new regime.
First – the Kaiser
Second – Hitler and Mussolini
Third – Trump.
Remember how Hitler was lauded for his so-called peace initiatives in the 1930s? Now we have some calling for Trump to be given the Nobel Peace prize. Beyond belief!
Trump isnt really offering peace either. as we well know his claims one month are abandoned 6 months later.
see his campaign claim to reduce US prescription drug prices is now an attempt to force foreign nations with ‘socialised medicine’ to pay more for their drugs ( ref our Pharmac)
Interesting case. Time to tighten up laws so that these transactions, offshore accounts and ‘loans’ which result in avoided tax, are not even possible in this country.
A well written Tobin tax would have collected the tax prior to the money leaving and avoided the lengthy court case.
Makes me wonder if this Current Lot are on a mission. Winston especially has history of going after those who are less than transparent in their business dealings.
Agree mostly with a financial transaction tax/levy….in these time of e-commerce it should be easy to implement.
@Rosemary – that is why they should look at putting a micro financial tax on everything and reduce other taxes that benefit those on smaller incomes more aka GST. If something like that was done correctly then if you live on peanuts you pay peanut taxes, if you have a million dollar lifestyle while earning zero profits you pay your share of tax at the point of transacting it… At the moment tax is so easy to avoid, too many variations and loopholes and so costly to fight cases…
yep, I think now with so much global capital whistling around the world it’s time to make it happen. Tax money and transactions so people like John Key, Eric Watson, Peter Thiel, Facebook, Google, etc whether resident in or out of NZ will be taxed a micro amount on their money made or going through NZ, where ever it goes afterwards will be someone else’s problem.
“Dinghy Pattinson is aiming to fulfil a promise he made as part of a mines rescue team that sealed up the Pike River mine in 2011.
The team left a note on the seal 170m up the mine access tunnel, or drift, promising the men they would return to get them out.
Pattinson was also part of the mines rescue team who were ready and waiting for two weeks to go into Pike River after the explosion that killed 29 men on November, 19, 2010.
‘We will not rest and we will never give up. We will return’ “
Was talking to an ex-coast, long time miner the other day about Pike, was very insightful, once he opened up a bit.
He explained that all along mine tunnels were little rooms with breathing apparatus etc, all one needed to do was get to one of these rooms and they would be able to stay alive for around 36hrs or more, giving rescue crews a chance to come and get them.
The rescue that never happened at Pike.
He believes that many of the men down there died from being abandoned, rather than the explosion. Also said Pike was well known for their shoddy safety, everyone on the coast knows it and that when they finally get in to Pike and get the men out it’s going to open a massive can of worms, and that’s why the prior government avoided rescue at all costs.
So proud of our new government for doing something. I can’t imagine the heartache and suffering of all involved.
The botched rescue including just getting the local police who knew nothing about mine safety is truely horrendous. Even countries with so called much worse human rights and employment safety bother to rescue their workers.
Pike River highlights that something is seriously wrong with how many companies with government assistance are operating in NZ – while pretending it’s all in the interests of health and safety but really to save dollars, avoid responsibility, not bother doing anything and delay tactics being the norm.
I’d like to see a memorial in Wellington for the men, by the beehive, to highlight the sad state of company greed and negligence and the government inaction supporting it and why a u-turn is needed.
You say
” Also said Pike was well known for their shoddy safety, everyone on the coast knows it”
What a shame that Andrew Little, yes, that Andrew Little, didn’t see anything wrong at all when he was supposed to be representing the men who worked there.
At the time Andrew said.
“EPMU national secretary Andrew Little said he was not aware of any safety concerns at the site.” https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/experts-raise-safety-concerns
He repeated that a number of times
“It was Andrew Little who, after the first explosion, claimed to the NZ Herald (November 22 2010) that there was “nothing unusual about Pike River or this mine that we’ve been particularly concerned about”.
It was a view he repeated to RNZ National’s Morning Report, also on November 22:
“Every mine on the West Coast takes great care when it goes into production and I don’t think Pike River is any different from that. They’ve had a good health and safety committee that’s been very active. So there’s nothing before now that’s alerted us to any greater risk of this sort of incident happening than at any other time.” http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
If there is anyone who wants to run a cover-up it looks like Andrew. Who wants to bet on the proposition that he will decide it is unsafe to try for a re-entry next year? He is in the perfect position to shut down any real investigation, isn’t he?
They will never get on with it.
There is no chance at all that there will be any re-entry to the mine that goes right in to the place where they were working. No politician would ever risk it.
Lolz alwyn, would you like to place a wager? I’m keen, 3 month self imposed ban?
alwyn you are familiar with the West Coat yes? It’s a different world there.
I also said… “Was talking to an ex-coast, long time miner the other day about Pike, was very insightful, once he opened up a bit.”….. once he opened up a bit….
I wasn’t aware that Andrew Little came from the West Coast. I was always under the impression that he came from Taranaki. Am I wrong?
What does what the West Coasters think really matter? It is Andrew who is going to make the call, and I believe it is pre-determined. Who can say what might, or might not, have been done at the time. Now it would just be sending people into danger. Let those who died, like people drowned in ships sunk in the war, rest in peace.
I remember visiting the Coast in the mid-1960s. Yes it was quite different, However I can remember talking to a railways driver. There were still steam trains going across to the Coast. He said that the people there threatened to riot if they put Diesel Loco’s instead of coal powered ones on the route. He also said it was just talk and no-one living there had kept a coal range when they could get an electric one. They might talk about keeping coal but they weren’t actually going to use it themselves.
What exactly did you have in mind for this wager. All you seem to be willing to say here is “I say they will go into the mine”.
I suppose you could argue that they have done this. Remember the brave face that Little put on when he, and a couple of the members of some of the deceased miners’ families put on as he went 30 metres into the portal to the point where it was sealed the other day?
What are you proposing? I’ll give you a good example to follow. John Kennedy said
“First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth”.
Quite explicit isn’t it? What to do. When to do it. How to judge success or failure.
How would you word the wager? Do you propose, for example, that people in the mission will travel right to the area where the men were working and, as far as I know, the explosion occurred, before 31 March. 2019? That is all the way into the mine.
If not, what would you suggest?
You are quite right about the first words of this comment. It was Rosemary who was talking about Little, Andrew. I do apologise for seeming to think that you were the one proposing him as an exemplar of integrity.
Nice dancing on the head of a pin alwyn. Cinny made a simple wager suggestion. And yes it was simple. The stakes arent even high but you had to go pseudo intellectual and self righteous rather than just acceptung or declining. Would that you were quite as analytical of Brownlee et al and the profit motive on these deaths as you are on Anrew Little.
Ironic that someone who has voted for those who have neutered unions now criticises a union for letting its members down
I rather hoped that Cinny would have responded by now as to what she did have in mind for the wager. It obviously has to have a date. After all it could otherwise turn into something like Winston’s threats to sue the National Party and its MPs.
“I’m still going to do it” Winston says while all is otherwise silent.
I suppose Little supporters could claim in 2050, when no attempt at a proper re-entry has taken place,that it will still happen, sometime.
Why does Little persist in messing with the victim’s families with the false hopes he keeps proclaiming?
For Tracey’s benefit I would note that I am not criticising the Union. I am criticising Andrew Little.
Utilising your long lack of empathy …. out of cameron slater and john key which one do you think was more likely to call bereaved mother of a pike river mine worker a bitch ?? … ,…..
the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled Key …according to Slater and published in Nicky Hagars “Dirty polictics”
I presume she did so over the hollowness and insincerity of his political stunt …his false promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….
The media nearly always gave key a pass for lieing ….. but not so from a young dead mans mother.
Totally missing from Alwyns mean eyed spit at this woman and other Pike river mine workers mothers: …is the Key and previous Nat Govts part in the criminal negligence that lead to these working mens deaths …….
cutting the number of mine inspectors … not enforcing regulations… Non-Compliant is virtually Nationals Trade Mark.
But what really shows up Key as a nasty arse-hole…. when his Governmnet received a multi-million insurance payout over Pike river…… the suggestion was put that some of that money be given to miners familys as compensation ……
Key “ they can sue “….Alwyn may well agree
We all know …At the end of the day 😉 😉 it was key who ran off from NZ politics
You may, or may not, realise that I am not John Key.
Neither am I Cameron Slater.
That obviously doesn’t matter to you. You really are a nasty piece of work aren’t you? What gives you the right to abuse me for things I have never done?
What gives you the right to accuse me of things like, in your own disgusting dribble ” Alwyns mean eyed spit at this woman “? I have never done such a thing and I despise anyone who would do so.
I also despise people like you who propagate such lies.
Get back in your hole you miserable little excuse for a human being. If you are unable to tell the truth about me why don’t you just shut up?
Its not about you Alwyn ….. your smeary diversionary blame Little dribble needed putting straight….. its part of the ‘blame the union’ shit your sort cynically use.
Your skewered, one-sided, political statement on pike river was offensive to the victims … a written slap in the face for the mothers on mothers day.
your coming across as ugly as Key … using the victims for political gain ….” let them sue”…..
I don’t place much stock on a cynical ugly repeat liar and hypocrite calling me a liar….
Instead lets be reminded of a New Zealander with morals and Justice challenging the rot and corruption of the last national Government ….
Frankly you are a complete nutter.
You have zero interest in the truth, or facts, or simple common-sense.
Crawl back into the cesspit of your fevered imagination.
You are completely beneath contempt.
You start a sentence with “I don’t place much stock ….”.
Well I don’t place much stock in the ravings of an idiot like you.
Pike River,,, and your bat-shit politically motivated appropriation of Blame …
Managers, directors, design and mining safety specs … have all dissapeared behind a little union rep … according to angry Alwyn
By Not engaging with facts , shouty abuse,, and a dose of the shut-ups.. Alwyns providing a good example of an ongoing context … where the ugly and dishonest .. attack lie and deny ,,, those who expose them.
Dirty Politics …its in their blood.
John Key : ” …Nicky Hager is a screaming left-wing conspiracy theorist,”
Key and waynes gutsy Afghanistan attacks: “,,,,, “Stephenson’s integrity and credibility has been questioned by Prime Minister John Key, he’s been accused of fabricating testimony, of being an anti-war activist, of being part of a plot to undermine the New Zealand Defence Force.”
Pike river NAct PR :… John Key: ..”The first thing is I’m here to give you absolute reassurance, we’re committed to getting the boys out, and nothing’s going to change that. So – when people try and tell you we’re not, they’re playing, I hate to say it, but they’re playing with your emotions.”
“Following from the first explosion at Pike Rive Mine, there seemed much positive comment heaped upon the likes of Peter Whittall and John Key.”
The Mine Rescue guys would have been gutted. My Dad was in Mine Rescue, and he said leaving anyone down a mine was their worst nightmare. So proud of Andrew Little and such respect for the families.
Not sure of your point here, are you saying less gdp growth would be good for nurses or more, or simply you have confused what ever the correlation is between GDP growth and nurses well being with causation
‘Charities’ are the new rout avenue. Clinton Foundation and so forth are really vehicles to channel money with tax advantages so it doesn’t look quite so much like a bribe or buying influence.
Personally not a fan of modern charities like KidsCan either that have millions in the bank, spend a lot of administration and make many think that government agencies and more austere type charities should be abandoned for the more glitzy marketing type of charity.
And I’ll only mention in passing, because with the rain today there’s gloom aplenty already, the many charities and trusts who have got their snouts firmly in the trough of government funded contracts to provide services in the ‘social’ sector.
They don’t make profits…they have surpluses…and pay no tax.
They can cause the deaths of people in their ‘care’ through under staffing and and are never properly held to account. By “held to account” i mean lose their fat contracts forever.
Hi. Am seeking the best books on recent (post-1984) NZ Political History – am aiming to guide a millenial. Here’s what I have so far:-
Simon Collins. 1987. Rogernomics: Is There A Better Way?;
Nicky Hagar. 2006. The Hollow Men;
Bruce Jesson. 1987. Behind The Mirror Glass;
Bruce Jesson. 1990. Fragments of Labour;
Harvey McQueen. 1991. The Ninth Floor: Inside the Prime Minister’s Office –
A Political Experience.
It’s a bit spartan so far. Anyone have any recommendations?
Also: Are these recommended?:-
Simon Sheppard. 1999. Broken Circle: The Decline And Fall Of The Fourth Labour Government;
Jon Johansson. 2009. The Politics of Possibility: Leadership in Changing
Times.
Dr Bill Sutch Economics – Balanced enterprises less weighted to farming
Read the presentations at the annual Bruce Jesson Journalism awards.
Geoffrey Palmer Unbridled Power
Marilyn Waring Counting for Nothing
Max Rashbrooke
Tim Hazeldine
Fabian addresses – must be on record
Thanks Rosemary for giving us all those links.
I have captured that link for Fabian – it takes so long to find stuff sometimes and have wanted to get them to hand for a while.
And Brian Easton – more good stuff. We need to water the good economists, give them some love, keep them going with their alternative thinking and turning of facts etc and flowering of ideas!
Thanks everybody! Much appreciated. Some good stuff here, natch. Whenever I think of Andrew Dean I think of Max Harris – encouraging that those of younger generations are looking backwards as well as looking forwards.
Brian Easton has, amongst others:-
The Making of Rogernomics (Auckland University Press, 1989)
Bruce Jesson Lectures have been delivered by: David Lange (2000), Brian Easton (2001), Chris Trotter (2002), Jane Kelsey (2003), Ani Mikaere (2004), Colin James (2005), Gordon Campbell (2006), Laila Harre (2007), Mike Lee (2008), Robert Wade (2009), Annette Sykes (2010), Paul Dalziel (2011), Nicky Hager (2012), Ted Thomas (2013), Mike Joy (2014), Rod Oram (2015) and Lisa Marriott (2016).
alwyn – we can tolerate what is said. We understand where Bassett was coming from. Whether we value what he says is another matter. No unpleasant surprises, so give up the “You may not like what he says.”
Bassett has not written another Bible.
I don’t care whether you agree with him. I couldn’t care less whether you value what he says. It is however essential reading if you want to understand what happened. Have you actually read the book?
I agree it is essential reading to understand how the Labour Party spawned the ACT Party and people like Bassett kept being used by the media to comment on Labour, following his leaving parliament, as though he represented Labour views.
Rebecca Macfie Tragedy at Pike River Mine: How and Why 29 Men Died
Jane Kelsey. The Fire Economy.
Jonathan Boston, Simon Chapple Child Poverty in New Zealand.
This is a problem for the Papatuanuku society Sea level rise we are to short sighted we have the technology to exanine Papatuanuku history but we don’t no how to live for the future we live for the NOW for what we can get out of life now and not what we can give to OUR mokopunas lives this mind set has to change the old way was to try and give back better than what we received. We need to change building codes to mitigate SEA level rise now or it will be a 1000x worst than the problem we have that our farmers have at the minute .We can not just ignore the problem because the longer we have OUR heads in the sand the bigger the mess we will have to clean up. A few bold moves now will save lives and billions of$$$$$ for OUR mokopunas THIS IS FACT here.s the link.
Eco Maori has to be careful whom I back because I can see a phenomenon.
The powers that be don’t like to be shown up by a Kiwi Maori Cultured Man from Te Waiapu Vally Tairawhiti like the idiots playing with there sounds and flashing neon lights at the minute . Ka kite ano
Good Evening NewsHub the better we care for the vulnerable mokopunas at the earliest we can the higher they will climb up there ladders of life.
That is reality for the working class poor the hardest hit from inequality in income and the brown poor people get hit the hardest the income disparities are shocking go to the high end of town and you see boats flash cars one million dollar house own by two people the other end and one see nothing but poverty people going with out basic needs.
I can rember 10 years ago life was a lot easier and the cost of living was a lot cheaper .
Ka kite ano
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New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Thursday 25 April appeared first on Newsroom. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Fechner, Research Fellow, Social Marketing, Griffith University mavo/Shutterstock Imagine having dinner at a restaurant. The menu offers plant-based meat alternatives made mostly from vegetables, mushrooms, legumes and wheat that mimic meat in taste, texture and smell. Despite being given that ...
“Three Strikes is a dead-end policy proposed by a dead-end government. The Three Strikes law ignores the causes of crime, instead just brutalising people already crushed by the cost of living.” ...
By Don Wiseman, RNZ Pacific senior journalist An Australian-born judge in Kiribati could well face deportation later this week after a tribunal ruling that he should be removed from his post. The tribunal’s report has just been tabled in the Kiribati Parliament and is due to be debated by MPs ...
With its clear mandate for police use, political nuances, and nuanced public trust, Denmark's insights provide valuable considerations for Australia and New Zealand. ...
Books editor Claire Mabey reviews poet Louise Wallace’s debut novel. A famous poet once said to me that he’s always suspicious when a poet publishes a novel. I never really understood why but maybe it’s something to do with cheating on your first form. Louise Wallace is a poet. She’s ...
For a few months at the turn of the millennium, TrueBliss burned bright as the biggest pop stars in the country. Alex Casey chats to two superfans who still hold the flame. During a humble backyard wedding in Nelson, 1999, one of the cordially invited guests had to excuse themselves ...
How will the recent wave of job cuts impact ethnic diversity in the media? In November last year, I was working a very busy day in the newsroom of a large online news site, interviewing whānau about their concerns over the imminent closure of one of the few puna reo ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ruth Knight, Researcher, Queensland University of Technology Have you ever felt sick at work? Perhaps you had food poisoning or the flu. Your belly hurt, or you felt tired, making it hard to concentrate and be productive. How likely would you be ...
Despite heavy criticism and an ongoing select committee process, the Police Minister says the Government will forge ahead with a ban on gang patches. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sam Whiting, Lecturer – Creative Industries, University of South Australia Shutterstock Everyone has a favourite band, or a favourite composer, or a favourite song. There is some music which speaks to you, deeply; and other music which might be the current ...
A new survey says ‘outlook not great’ for those charged with building infrastructure, while RMA changes delight farmers and depress environmentalists, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. First RMA changes announced ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olli Hellmann, Associate Professor of Political Science, University of Waikato Getty Images When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also ...
More interesting material from Craig Murray.
“The Incredible Bias of the BBC
Why is the BBC permitted, day after day after day, to pump out programming which actively promotes a political programme far to the right of where the British population actually stand? With the continual over-representation of nutty right wing groups like the Taxpayers’ Alliance and the Henry Jackson Society, while left wing groups of much larger membership such as Stop the War are completely ignored. Why low tax campaigners but no invitation ever to groups like Black Triangle who represent claimants interests? Not to mention the routine ignoring of the SNP, parliament’s third largest party.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-incredible-bias-of-the-bbc/
This is why State owned media is a bad idea. Even an organisation set up to attempt to be unbiased like the BBC gets accused of bias by people and then they start discussing his it can become more “unbiased”. This is usually code for ‘agree with my side more.
No. That’s why state-funded media is essential. Because it’s the only organisation that will ever be under any meaningful obligation to be impartial.
It’s that fact that makes the debate Ed started even possible. Nobody expects state-funded media to do a perfect job, but at least the obligation is there.
I agree.
We just have to deal with the bias of the senior executives at RNZ.
Why so many Taxpayers’ Union New Zealand Initiative stories?
Why the acceptance of neoliberal premises on economics?
Why the framing of stories from a right wing agenda?
Fortunately we now have alternative news sources to show the lies the mainstream runs.
@Ed +1 You can add to your list…
Why financial updates all through out the day, but no workers news?
Why is it RNZ have nearly all domestic and international financial/economic analysis done by bank economist?…economists who have a ideology that is based on selling and profiting from debt.
It opens itself up for political interference in editorial decisions. That is never a good thing.
State-funded media doesn’t have to be one single entity that might dominate the media landscape. Nor does it have to mean an entity where the Board & Chairman are appointed by the Government of the day. Nor does it have to mean an entity with strict hierarchical structure with strict managerial and editorial over sight where decisions by others are controlled and overruled by superiors all the way to the top. And it also doesn’t have to mean a Charter that demands financial/operational return AKA profit and dividends (to the Government).
Rather than having a one-size-fits-all entity or set-up why not reflect our society’s diversity and pluralism and fund that adequately? Media should cater for all citizens and inform the people so that they can make their own judgements if they wish …
What is wrong with the BBC structure then since people think it is biased
Riiight – and that wretched chip wrapper The Herald never interferes politically at the editorial level? The state model is sound – the only commercial enterprise that even approaches the BBC or Al Jazeera for quality is Reuters.
Gosman: talking the obvious unaccountability of private news organisations you have guaranteed politically based interference in what the populace receives and no one can say a word.
Talking the obvious accountability of state news organisations you have at least the formal capacity for the populace to holler like hell if/when there is the appearance or fact of political interference.
I see you’re still exercising risibly twisted, absolutist zealotry; oligarchs = good while the people = bad.
So does profit oriented privately owned media organisations…
Privately owned and operated media is, by default, a political tool and is open to the political interference of its owners.
The same can be said for state owned media.
Damned if you do etc
It can be but it can also be more open and honest. Depends upon how it’s set up.
Just as a private media will spin a story to its interest as can, and does, the state.
It won’t be The State.
It will be independent journalism.
Sure but again independent journalists also have their own bias.
I try to read everything from a multitude of sources. I read The Standard as much as I read Kiwiblog (though I’d never lower myself to comment there). I read the New Yorker, The Atlantic, Fox News, BBC, NYT, Washington Post, The Listener, AJZ, CNN, NBR , the list goes on and on.
It gets fucking tiring but I’m a news junkie. Then there’s the science mags and the books….it’s a wonder I manage to have job and raise a child while maintaining an alcohol habit.
And there’s nothing that we can or should do about that – except demand that they provide proof and not just ‘reckons’ as we get from so many talking heads in the private sector.
What is wrong with how the BBC is set up?
FWICMO, it’s structured with capitalist, top down, dictatorship control in mind.
State-ownership, in my view, ought to mean that it is owned and managed by the state on behalf of all citizens and it has a (social) mandate to deliver (a service or product) for the public good, not for (financial) profit to the owners. This doesn’t make it immune from political meddling but any (political) benefits may be harder to obtain (and hide from public view) as they tend to be more indirect (arm’s length influence and control). State-owned media have a fundamentally different mandate and governance compared to privately-owned media unless they’re run strictly as a business in the common sense in which case it is an easy step for National & ACT to sell/privatise.
State owned media is no less biased than private media. The difference is our taxes don’t fund private media. State run media is totally surplus to requirements in a modern society.
Good thing the state isn’t running it then, eh. Also, I question your interpretation of the word “modern”.
Re: quality and quantity of bias, I note the presence of a diverse range of opinions on RNZ.
The state IS running state media. With our taxes. Shut the lot down, then maybe Labour can meet some of its broken promises.
Don’t be so stupid.
Sure a state can run a lame media – Pravda or RT – but not all states do.
What’s wrong with the MSM is not state interference, but commercial interference. Murdoch etc. The useless ZB network. Fox.
The citizen has no comeback against their shit short of shutting them down. When you see the crap NZ TV has become it’s looking like a pretty good option.
I agree.
Take back the airwaves from the plutocrats.
At the expense of taxpayers? And in exchange for state propaganda? No thanks.
Who said anything about state propaganda? Can you provide an example of “state propaganda” on TVNZ or RNZ. Be specific: quote the actual article in question and explain how it qualifies.
“What’s wrong with the MSM is not state interference, but commercial interference. ”
Commercial interference is paid for by commercial interests. State interference (and it is endemic in state media) is paid for by tax payers. Stop it all.
Looks like you don’t know what endemic means either.
oops meant epidemic. Thanks.
All you need now is an example.
The airwaves are the commons.
Rich corporate interests should never be allowed anywhere near them.
And under your system babaya the world becomes a plutocracy, where the rich own and control the news.
We are getting closer to that.
Only the state setting up grassroots news and taking the airwaves back can stop the march of the uberrich.
Why do you take the side of the robber barons?
The airwaves are the commons.
State interests and their accompanying propaganda should never be allowed anywhere near them.
So who do you think should have access to the airwaves?
Large corporations?
“So who do you think should have access to the airwaves?
Large corporations?”
Large, small, and in between. Community groups. Special interest groups. Heck anyone but the government.
Do you think Fox News is better than RNZ as a source of news?
Do you think The NewZealand Herald is better than RNZ as a source of news?
“Do you think Fox News is better than RNZ as a source of news?”
Yes, absolutely. Particularly given that Fox news is balanced by CNN and MSNBC.
“Do you think The NewZealand Herald is better than RNZ as a source of news?”
Marginal call.
Ed: Do you think Fox News is better than RNZ as a source of news?
Babyaga: Yes, absolutely.
True believers untie, you have nothing to lose but your sanity and balance 😆
Fox News is unashamedly biased. So is Red Radio.
The differences are:
1. We fund Red Radio and,
2. Read Radio don’t admit they are biased.
Repeating Farrar’s catchphrases is not a good sign of a well thought out argument.
‘
Red RadioRNZ is biased’.That isn’t what you claimed. You claimed them as an example of “state propaganda”. So you’ve now abandoned that claim and are claiming bias.
But once again, you’ve failed to provide any examples of this bias, although perhaps you mean Matthew Hooton.
I expect you’ll cite John Campbell as an example, but then you’d have to show how Checkpoint exhibits a “state” bias, as opposed to John Campbell’s. And if your only objection is that individual hosts bring their own biases to the mix, RNZ is doing no more or less than whoever it is that employs Hoskings et al, and RNZ has the advantage of a wider spectrum of views.
Perhaps it’s that advantage that you don’t like. The very idea that the state might provide something more useful (and popular) than the “free” “market”.
Unless you can link to a specific example of “state propaganda”, that is. Tumbleweeds?
“You claimed them as an example of “state propaganda”.”
Where?
“So you’ve now abandoned that claim and are claiming bias.”
Well when the Minster of Broadcasting has a clandestine meeting with a senior RNZ executive, that both try to hide, I’d say that was a pretty good example of at least an attempt at state influence. Of course you support the Greens, so you are in bed with liars and cheats.
“not on my dime”
Whereas I’m happy to provide it on my “dime”, and since at the last count far more people support my position (even the Trashional Party funds RNZ when in government) than yours, I’m pretty sure we can do without your petty contribution. Tell you what, we’ll fund the things we like and you can contribute to David Seymour’s taxpayer funded trough, eh.
Bully for you. Not my dime.
in bed with liars and cheaters
On this issue, I’m also in bed with the NZLP, NZF and National. We’re having a great time while you’re in line to practise necrophilia with Ayn Rand, and Don Brash took your place in the queue 😉
On what issue? The welfare cheat? The MP who worked for war criminals while claiming to be bringing them to justice? The MP who has gone on to head an organisation who are bullying people for donations?
On what issue?
The continued funding of RNZ. Perhaps if you and Don pooled your resources you could afford a couple of clones of Ayn, and they could humiliate and despise you just like the original.
In case you missed it, the ‘liars and cheats’ I was referring to were the Greens. Here, you’ll get the idea if you read my comment “Of course you support the Greens, so you are in bed with liars and cheats.”https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12-05-2018/#comment-1483690
Still waiting for a specific example of the
bogeymanstate propaganda.Here’s an example to help you recognise it.
Have you ever heard of Red Radio?
PS great article BTW.
I have already asked you to provide a specific example of an actual article and explain in your own words how it constitutes “state propaganda”.
If you can’t manage that very basic thing your argument isn’t worth very much.
You provided your own example. Do you seriously want me to post examples of state media propaganda from China, Russia, etc etc? If you don’t think it can happen here, perhaps you missed the meeting between Clare Curran and Carol Hirschfeld?
I have heard that term used by right wing nut jobs yes.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12021163
I don’t click on the Herald’s links – following others in boycotting it since its ghastly rubbish a couple of weeks back,
The Herald is rapidly becoming an echo chamber for Farrar and his crazed right wing friends.
You mentioned “Red Radio”, aka RNZ. Provide a specific example of an RNZ article that constitutes “state propaganda”.
You freely admit “commercial interference” in commercial radio. You allege that similar interference, specifically “state propaganda” exists in local state owned media, and cite RNZ as an example.
Yet you can’t point to a single article to illustrate your argument. Don’t get me wrong, I know you’re full of shit, but you might at least make some flailing attempt to justify your conspiracist delusions.
Well said.
“Provide a specific example of an RNZ article that constitutes “state propaganda”.”
All bias on red radio represents state propaganda. Note, not government propaganda. State propaganda. Now John Campbell is biased, and I have no problem with that on private media, but not on my dime.
“You allege that similar interference, specifically “state propaganda” exists in local state owned media…”
No, never said ‘local’.
“and cite RNZ as an example.”
I asked you a question about Red Radio and provided evidence of at the very least interference – Curran’s meeting with Hirschfeld.
But wait, there’s more:
“When Metiria Turei announced she was stepping down from Parliament, Radio NZ’s Checkpoint host John Campbell was a paragon of empathy and compassion, writes Liam Hehir.”
“Like many news agencies, Radio NZ has a mild centre-left bias. If you don’t believe it, my guess would be that you probably have a centre-left disposition yourself.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/99720488/radio-new-zealand-should-appoint-its-own-ombudsman
All bias on
red radioRNZ represents state propagandaMatthew Hooton broadcasts state propaganda. Good to know 😆
Don’t forget they’re out to get you.
“Matthew Hooton broadcasts state propaganda. Good to know ”
No, he doesn’t broadcast it, but he participates in it. You see, Blokey, with private broadcasters we can discern the bias and we’re not paying for it. With public broadcasting we’re getting propaganda and paying for it. No thanks.
“Propaganda”
For which you are yet to provide a single specific example. Is it during the leader of the opposition’s regular slots?
Curran. Hirschfeld. Explain it.
You’ve piqued my curiosity; who is paying (for) private broadcasters? Do they work gratis or pro bono?
Advertisers.
Curran. Hirschfeld. Explain it.
Explain it yourself, you rude prick. You don’t get to make demands: you get to provide some supporting evidence for your assertions of “propaganda”. Put up or shut up.
Look it up. Think about it.
Advertisers? Oh, that’s o.k. then as that would make private broadcasters immune from political meddling because political parties and their lobbyists never take out ads in MSM, never ever. And private broadcasters only broadcast direct messages on behalf of their advertisers, like shampoo manufacturers. That’s why all talkback shows, for example, are about shampoo and other commodities and never about politics. I mean, I can tell when an ad is about shampoo although sometimes it is hard to discern at first because it could also be a lipstick ad …
Talking of lipstick, do you know whether Mike Hosking and Simon Bridges use the same brand of hair gel, by any chance?
One last question, who’s paying the advertisers?
And one very last question, I promise, are advertising and marketing expenses tax deductible in NZ?
“…because political parties and their lobbyists never take out ads in MSM, never ever.”
Of course they do. That’s the point…they are the ones paying, not the taxpayer.
“And private broadcasters only broadcast direct messages on behalf of their advertisers, like shampoo manufacturers.”
Of course not. They broadcast their opinion. How many awards did Newstalk ZB receive at the recent Radio Awards?
You seem to believe private commercial interests having opinions and broadcasting them is bad. It isn’t. What is bad is the government owning the medium for broadcasting ideas.
“One last question, who’s paying the advertisers?”
People who voluntarily buy their products.
“And one very last question, I promise, are advertising and marketing expenses tax deductible in NZ?”
Of course. They are a cost of deriving assessable income.
What a tangled web we weave.
So, private broadcasts are full of political and other direct and indirect advertising but that’s o.k. because the consumers pay for it; the consumers who are also the Taxpayers.
The only accountability and transparency, if any, is to the private owners of the station; the consumers/Taxpayers will have no idea who’s influencing them.
As long as the funding does not come directly from the Taxpayers any opinion or influence that the private broadcaster wants to send out for whatever reason and on whomever’s behalf without either the listeners or consumers/Taxpayers fully in the know is perfectly fine.
All this is perfectly acceptable because consumers voluntarily buy (or not) the products of the advertisers in a free-market exchange. The commercial guys are so much more credit-worthy than politicians, aren’t they? [pun intended]
You do know the saying that if you don’t know what the product is … ?
You are confused.
All media carries bias. I’m fine with that as long as it is declared and I’m not paying for it. The government has no business in media, none. It is a risky and expensive business for little or no benefit. And I don’t trust government’s of any stripe to declare their bias and keep far away from propaganda.
This is why State owned media is a bad idea.
As opposed to rigorously professional outfits like Fox News and MSNBC? You don’t have a clue.
Gosman, your comments are often ignorant and ill judged, but whatever you say this morning, no matter how ignorant and ill judged, will not be worse than what you inflicted on us a few days ago….
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08-05-2018/#comment-1482422
Yes Gosman talks silly stuff.
NZME and Stuff are owned by multinational finance corporations.
They wouldn’t be biased would they?
In the corporate media you get biased fools like Garner showing their true colours.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/103843906/duncan-garner-if-twyford-cant-phil-us-in-on-kiwibuybuild-who-can
Eh???
What has a comment about Melanie Trump got to do with me?
Similarly, Ed, I note that David Farrar and Jordan Williams’s ludicrous Taxpayers’ Union and the right wing New Zealand Initiative often set the agenda for “news” on both main TV channels, and on Radio New Zealand. The researchers and analysts of the universities and the unions, by contrast, are rarely given much consideration.
Agreed. And look at the number of ACT members who get on Mora’s Panel.
Who for example?
Stephen Franks. But I’m sure there’s many more..
Interesting point
heres a summary of this show
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/library
names are ( couldnt click and paste ,grrr)
Lisa Scott and Ian Telfer
Jo Mccarrol and Scott Campbell
max Ritchie and Niki Bezzant
Rosemary Macleod and Peter Fa’afui
garry Moore and Miriama Aoake
cas carter and Steve Mccabe
Jock Anderson and Mai Chen
Verity Johnson and Simon Pound
Peter Vial and Paula Penfold
Clare de Lore and Alan Blackman
Ella Henry and John Barnett
Micheal Moynahan and Penny Ashton
Minhingarangi Forbes Sam Johnson
Lynda Hallinan and Chris Clarke
Alexia Russel and Mike Rehu
Mike Williams and Michelle Boag
Bernard Hickey and jenny Moreton
neil Miller Alison Mau
Chris Waikira and Janet Wilson
Lisa Scott and Andrew Hoggard
Gary McCormick and Lizzie Marvelly
Michelle A’ court Peter Fa’aifu
Catherine Robertson and Peter Milne
Nadine Higgins and Matt Nippert
Thats over a months worth and quite a variety. Sometimes certain names are more memorable while a lot of the above arent too well known ( arent yet famous for being famous)
I’ve annotated that list of “talent” accordingly…
[1] vacuous; [2] supporter of Israeli government; [3] close links to National Party; [4] spouse of ex-National Party MP; [5] regularly expresses strident right wing views; [6];
Lisa Scott [1] and Ian Telfer
Jo Mccarrol and Scott Campbell [3]
max Ritchie [5] and Niki Bezzant
Rosemary Macleod [5] and Peter Fa’afui
garry Moore and Miriama Aoake
cas carter [1] and Steve Mccabe
Jock Anderson [5] and Mai Chen
Verity Johnson and Simon Pound
Peter Vial and Paula Penfold
Clare de Lore[4] and Alan Blackman [1]
Ella Henry [1] and John Barnett [2]
Micheal Moynahan and Penny Ashton
Minhingarangi Forbes and Sam Johnson [3]
Lynda Hallinan and Chris Clarke [1]
Alexia Russel and Mike Rehu
Mike Williams and Michelle Boag [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]
Bernard Hickey and jenny Moreton
Neil Miller [5] and Alison Mau
Chris Wikaira [2], [3] and Janet Wilson [5]
Lisa Scott [1] and Andrew Hoggard [1], [3], [5]
Gary McCormick and Lizzie Marvelly
Michelle A’ court Peter Fa’aifu
Catherine Robertson and Peter Milne
Nadine Higgins and Matt Nippert
Really? An ACT party member today?
Stephen was certainly an ACT MP from 1999 until 2005.
However he then joined the National Party and was on the National List in 2008. He has taken no active part in politics since then as far as I can see so, although he may still be a member of the National Party I have seen no evidence at all that he went back to ACT.
Do you have any?
Who said we were talking about current ACT members??
When the comment made is in the present tense
“And look at the number of ACT members who get on Mora’s Panel”
one is certainly entitled to expect that you will find current members to nominate. If the best you can discover is someone who was a member a decade ago you are failing.
On your basis I am entitled to state that the Labour party is the arch-proponent of Rogernomics. You will have to agree if you think your own comment is accurate.
Oh dear, Alwyn… more punctilious crap. Franks remains ACT in thought and word whether he is a current member or not. Get your mummy to put you to bed instead of allowing you to post such rubbish. (I am returning a foolish insult you posted against me, just in case it escaped your university-qualified vigilance.)
That’s nice dear.
In Vino
So what. I presume you believe in free speech; in which case Franks is entitled to his point of view, even if you disagree with it.
Grantoc
You’re missing or ignoring the point raised @ 1.2 and 1.2.1.
Hint: it is not about free speech as such.
Exactly right, I have been emailing the producers of RNZ (nicely) about this exact point for the past 12 months…no reply of course.
Taxpayers Alliance? Taxpayers Union and they all try to behave as if they are not part of a strategy
Ed’s comment is about yet another Craig Murray opinion this time re the BBC. Hence UK related, not NZ; and not about the NZ Taxpayers Union.
The TaxPayers’ Alliance is a right-wing British pressure group and think tank formed in 2004 to campaign for a low tax society. The group, based in London, had about 18,000 registered supporters as of 2008, and claimed to have 55,000 by September 2010.
https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxPayers%27_Alliance
I understood that, and was noting that the UK has an equivalent of our Taxpayer Union an arms length group helping right parties get re elected
In the background, where the majority of people can’t see, it’s probably the same group.
Kind of like Trade Unions you mean.
No. Trades Unions are comprised of citizens, not sockpuppets.
In your opinion.
To go along to get along. The whole Thatcherite revolution was essentially a dumbing down and raising fears, all started with Murdoch lowering the bar and mulching any conflict against wealth. Press bias merely reflects the current elites unwillingness to pull its finger out, having been deluded into believing that the market will save their sorry arises if only they distrust the market of ideas that will save their sorry arises from being burnt to a cinder.
Shocking especially because they used to (and probably still do I expect) make everybody in Britain pay a yearly TV licence for the content which clearly should not be biased!!!
You want one image that shows how compromised the BBC has become.
Look at Jo Coburn’s face as the BBC cut an interview when one of their reporters says MI6 was involved in torture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxC8hrMhM6A
That reminds me of another time the BBC ‘unfortunately lost the line.’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677i43QfYpQ
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
And not just because he looks like Simon Bridges.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/marco-rubio-condemns-fellow-lawmakers-opposing-gina-haspels-confirmation/
The media have really let Bridges off the hook for his liking of Slater’s tweet.
The media routinely take their lead from Slater and Farrar. Jim Mora references Farrar every second day, and has him on as a guest regularly. No doubt he’d do the same with Whalefat if he ever relaxed his ideological ban on appearing on “state media.”
I actually find Mora in many ways more contemptible than Hosking.
At least Hosking doesn’t pretend.
You have to admit they’ve got the bases covered with gentle Jim playing a subtle nuanced role with a stacked panel.
Though remembering that it’s helpful to listen to which fear they are playing up. Of course if it’s all right-wing sledging then do what I do, avoid Hooten, Boag, Frank’s, and just pick one right-wing hack, it’s not like there is any depth to their messaging. Farrier is best of the boring fools.
Yeh, I have noticed that Mora has only just contained himself of the Asia peril at our doorstep re; China, lately…I am pretty sure he is going to slip on this one pretty soon.
Morrisey – If this is true, its totally offset by RNZ giving John Campbell 2 hrs every night to push a left wing agenda.
Are you saying that giving a voice to the disenfranchised and holding power to account is inherently Left Wing?, because I can’t remember Campbell pushing any political ideology…maybe you can refresh me.
He will have forgotten that Campbell caused a labour PM to flunce out of an interview
Given that David Farrar runs the most widely read blog in New Zealand, it is hardly surprising that media commentators refer to him.
And although Standardnistas won’t like this, David Farrar comes across as reasonably balanced, even if he is a well known supporter of National. It is some of his commenters that are extreme.
He regularly gives credit to the government when he thinks it is due. He is not so one-eyed that he condemns every single action of the government. Likewise he is critical of the opposition from time to time
” David Farrar comes across as reasonably balanced, even if he is a well known supporter of National. It is some of his commenters that are extreme. ”
If one were so inclined and had the ability and the facility, one could invent a persona, append a twitty pseudonym and spew vile hate speech unfettered on a totally un moderated website. It’d be like allowing one’s evil alter to have a ‘real life’ or in some cases ‘lives’.
Farrar allows those “extreme” commenters free reign…he is a despicable person.
Most people here know this….why would you even think it appropriate to try and defend the indefensible?
He’s a troll farmer. That earns less respect, not more.
And Wayne is partisan so his view of balanced is jaundiced.
The Standard also allows “extreme” commentators from the left ‘free reign’. Is that ‘despicable’ to?
Or are you trying to “defend the indefensible”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kc6fjIEV3s
Yeah nah – he was hip deep in the dirty politics scam. Nothing unusual for a Gnat of course, but contemptible by the standards of normal people.
Comes across as reasonably balanced…to the likes of yourself perhaps, Wayne…and those who appreciate and support ‘hate’ blog sites such as KB…
But that is no rational benchmark for , balance…
What drives you to keep commentating on this blog, Wayne…you’ve not tendered a response…
Kiwi blog seems a more natural habitat given your documented publicly available history…
The scary thing is that I think you really believe this! Or do I hear a dog-whistle?
The fact that those “extreme” commenters are being ‘invited’ by the posts on KB written by DPF and other authors (…) seems to have escaped your thought. All propaganda has and starts with instigators too.
Further, DPF not only provides an inviting and welcoming forum with ample ‘food for thought’ for those “extreme” commenters but also cries that it is too hard to manage, which is just unbelievably pathetic and has a very disingenuous ring to it.
DPF may give token credit to the Government and express token criticism of the Opposition “from time to time” but that’s just pulling the wool over our eyes, isn’t it? Just like Simon Bridges strongly condemned the DP campaign against Clarke Gayford. Yeah, right!
No resignation calls for his disreslect to oyr falken? We would still be hearing about it if Shearer, Cullliffe, Little or Ardern had taken a taxpayer funded flight to Hawaii on hols instead
Absolutely
Lucky for him he’s just a tool for global capitalism then.
Odd story:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103764952/bridges-mea-culpa-for-titter-faux-pas-too-much-tweeting-maketh-a-twat
Anyway, we now know Mr Bridges
readsscrolls through tweets by WO. We also know that Mr Bridges easily lets his guard down when (or better: in spite of) reading tweets by WO – WO is a well-known and respected comedian in National circles and his tweets are often considered ‘funny’. Maybe Mr Bridges was not wearing his hat as Leader of the Opposition but tweeting in ’private capacity’.“Literally a second” would not have given time for a 3rd party to do a screenshot. Literally
He was just scrolling down tweets from WO, as you do, and literally liked it but that doesn’t mean he literally liked it as it is just one of those things you do when scrolling down through tweets from WO, literally.
In National nothing should be taken literally, only aspirationally. A brighter future for all literally means a slightly less dim future for the dimwits (AKA poor, workers, un- and underemployed,
beneficiaries, most people) and a much brighter future for the few (AKA rich) but you cannot literally say that. Being on the cusp of something special literally means that you’ve got gas and have to do a fart but just like weeing in the shower you cannot literally say that in a public medium so you make it sound expirationally.Anything that this Government says or does is literally bad, of course. It goes without saying that the Opposition and particularly the Leader of the Opposition without question and without reading literally poopoos everything from Government. Coincidentally, this comes naturally to National because they literally have no original ideas, which is why they scroll through WO tweets and KB and literally like posts and comments alike; in National they like what they like ad nauseam, literally.
Effectively, Slick Britches is full of bullshit.
My second share of the day are the words of a great New Zealander, Robin Westenra.
“Ecological and economic collapse in New Zealand
It will be only apparent to those paying attention but New Zealand is collapsing environmentally, socially, financially and politically, not to mention socially.
Every day we read headlines like this. The detail with which these questions are dealt with are usually in inverse proportion to the importance of the crisis in question.
People who react emotionally to things,mostly on social media, but are incapable (or unwilling) to analyse why this might be the case just blame the government.
It is really only the symptoms of social collapse that get any public attention.
While the previous government with its socially-destructive policies of austerity took this breakdown to new, unseen levels. But there is nothing unique in this and the result probably end up being the same.
We cannot look solely to economic policies.
What we are seeing is a neo-liberal response to a very real problem to ongoing and progressive collapse as a result of economic crisis arising out of energy decline along with ecological degradation and accelerating climate change.”
http://robinwestenra.blogspot.co.nz/2018/05/ecological-and-economic-collapse-in-new.html?m=1
Superb piece of writing there once again by Westenra. If only the world had more men like him.
This looks like a good one.
The book is called “The War On Peace: The decline of American diplomacy”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHZy5uZg_tk
Trevor Noah interviews the author Ronan Farrow, who also broke major stories as a reporter such as the #MeToo movement, among others.
Thanks for the link Ad
This is what happens when:
You let farmers take water to intensify dairy farming on the Canterbury Plains
You let farmers pump fertiliser into the land
You allow foreign corporations to take our water.
“Chlorine levels in some Christchurch water might be enough for swimming pool.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/103631494/chlorine-levels-in-some-christchurch-water-might-be-enough-for-swimming-pool
Neoliberal New Zealand.
A poster boy for plutocrats.
A basket case for its citizens.
Auckland.
35000 empty homes.
Houses too expensive to rent or buy.
People living on the streets.
Neoliberal New Zealand.
A poster boy for plutocrats.
A basket case for its citizens.
https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/
Ponzi schemes everywhere you look…..think there may be a message in that.
Capitalism itself is a Ponzi Scheme. A few end up rich, everyone else ends up poor.
Capitalism (and/or politics) may accelerate the process but physics dictate it….
“…A society in which depletion is advanced and M(p)
rapidly increasing relative to C(p), though, may not be able to escape catabolic
collapse even if such steps are taken. Cultural and political factors may also make
efforts to avoid catabolic collapse difficult to accomplish, or indeed to contemplate.”
https://www.ecoshock.org/transcripts/greer_on_collapse.pdf
Scary stuff about new terrorism laws and how they seem to be operating…
Black activist jailed for his Facebook posts speaks out about secret FBI surveillance
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/11/rakem-balogun-interview-black-identity-extremists-fbi-surveillance
That is shocking. Didn’t take long for the FBI to enter into the spirit of the new regime.
First – the Kaiser
Second – Hitler and Mussolini
Third – Trump.
Remember how Hitler was lauded for his so-called peace initiatives in the 1930s? Now we have some calling for Trump to be given the Nobel Peace prize. Beyond belief!
“Beyond belief!”
We are living in Wonderland now Anne….under Rabbit Hole rules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1mAb2wXsRM
😀
That film was a brilliant rendition of A in Wonderland. And so appropriate to today’s disordered world courtesy of Donald Trump.
Hitlers peace initiatives ?
Only if you are a Hilter revisionist ( which Im sure you arent)!
http://ihr.org/other/what-the-world-rejected.html
Trump isnt really offering peace either. as we well know his claims one month are abandoned 6 months later.
see his campaign claim to reduce US prescription drug prices is now an attempt to force foreign nations with ‘socialised medicine’ to pay more for their drugs ( ref our Pharmac)
From the “It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy…” files,
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12048706
The company of which Eric Watson holds all of the ordinary shares is being chased down for 60 million Big Ones in avoided tax.
What a tragedy…givealittle page on its way?
Interesting case. Time to tighten up laws so that these transactions, offshore accounts and ‘loans’ which result in avoided tax, are not even possible in this country.
A well written Tobin tax would have collected the tax prior to the money leaving and avoided the lengthy court case.
Makes me wonder if this Current Lot are on a mission. Winston especially has history of going after those who are less than transparent in their business dealings.
Agree mostly with a financial transaction tax/levy….in these time of e-commerce it should be easy to implement.
But the Rich Pricks will find a way around it 🙁
@Rosemary – that is why they should look at putting a micro financial tax on everything and reduce other taxes that benefit those on smaller incomes more aka GST. If something like that was done correctly then if you live on peanuts you pay peanut taxes, if you have a million dollar lifestyle while earning zero profits you pay your share of tax at the point of transacting it… At the moment tax is so easy to avoid, too many variations and loopholes and so costly to fight cases…
Hah savenz! I have a close family member who has been banging on about such a tax for years. Pleased for him it is rising to the mainstream.
yep, I think now with so much global capital whistling around the world it’s time to make it happen. Tax money and transactions so people like John Key, Eric Watson, Peter Thiel, Facebook, Google, etc whether resident in or out of NZ will be taxed a micro amount on their money made or going through NZ, where ever it goes afterwards will be someone else’s problem.
Another case of the SFA tax… this video will brighten up a rainy day for many.. it’s very well done.
Honest Government Ad | Trickledown Economics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yzeOqV7eKI
This up date on the Pike River Recovery.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103725677/the-promise-to-pike-river-miners-we-will-not-rest-and-we-will-never-give-up-we-will-return
“Dinghy Pattinson is aiming to fulfil a promise he made as part of a mines rescue team that sealed up the Pike River mine in 2011.
The team left a note on the seal 170m up the mine access tunnel, or drift, promising the men they would return to get them out.
Pattinson was also part of the mines rescue team who were ready and waiting for two weeks to go into Pike River after the explosion that killed 29 men on November, 19, 2010.
‘We will not rest and we will never give up. We will return’ “
Good article, thanks for sharing Rosemary.
Was talking to an ex-coast, long time miner the other day about Pike, was very insightful, once he opened up a bit.
He explained that all along mine tunnels were little rooms with breathing apparatus etc, all one needed to do was get to one of these rooms and they would be able to stay alive for around 36hrs or more, giving rescue crews a chance to come and get them.
The rescue that never happened at Pike.
He believes that many of the men down there died from being abandoned, rather than the explosion. Also said Pike was well known for their shoddy safety, everyone on the coast knows it and that when they finally get in to Pike and get the men out it’s going to open a massive can of worms, and that’s why the prior government avoided rescue at all costs.
So proud of our new government for doing something. I can’t imagine the heartache and suffering of all involved.
The botched rescue including just getting the local police who knew nothing about mine safety is truely horrendous. Even countries with so called much worse human rights and employment safety bother to rescue their workers.
Pike River highlights that something is seriously wrong with how many companies with government assistance are operating in NZ – while pretending it’s all in the interests of health and safety but really to save dollars, avoid responsibility, not bother doing anything and delay tactics being the norm.
I’d like to see a memorial in Wellington for the men, by the beehive, to highlight the sad state of company greed and negligence and the government inaction supporting it and why a u-turn is needed.
Well said SaveNZ.
You say
” Also said Pike was well known for their shoddy safety, everyone on the coast knows it”
What a shame that Andrew Little, yes, that Andrew Little, didn’t see anything wrong at all when he was supposed to be representing the men who worked there.
At the time Andrew said.
“EPMU national secretary Andrew Little said he was not aware of any safety concerns at the site.”
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/experts-raise-safety-concerns
He repeated that a number of times
“It was Andrew Little who, after the first explosion, claimed to the NZ Herald (November 22 2010) that there was “nothing unusual about Pike River or this mine that we’ve been particularly concerned about”.
It was a view he repeated to RNZ National’s Morning Report, also on November 22:
“Every mine on the West Coast takes great care when it goes into production and I don’t think Pike River is any different from that. They’ve had a good health and safety committee that’s been very active. So there’s nothing before now that’s alerted us to any greater risk of this sort of incident happening than at any other time.”
http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
If there is anyone who wants to run a cover-up it looks like Andrew. Who wants to bet on the proposition that he will decide it is unsafe to try for a re-entry next year? He is in the perfect position to shut down any real investigation, isn’t he?
Don’t you think it is appropriate, given that he perhaps erred back in the day, that Andrew Little heads this project?
Even cynical old moi sees the slight aura of integrity around the man. Rare enough for any politician.
Do you honestly think someone like Dinghy Pattinson would let crap like that go unchallenged?
Why not put it on hold for a while alwyn and let them get on with it.
They will never get on with it.
There is no chance at all that there will be any re-entry to the mine that goes right in to the place where they were working. No politician would ever risk it.
Hopes alwyn.
And Gerry Brownlee
Lolz alwyn, would you like to place a wager? I’m keen, 3 month self imposed ban?
alwyn you are familiar with the West Coat yes? It’s a different world there.
I also said… “Was talking to an ex-coast, long time miner the other day about Pike, was very insightful, once he opened up a bit.”….. once he opened up a bit….
I wasn’t aware that Andrew Little came from the West Coast. I was always under the impression that he came from Taranaki. Am I wrong?
What does what the West Coasters think really matter? It is Andrew who is going to make the call, and I believe it is pre-determined. Who can say what might, or might not, have been done at the time. Now it would just be sending people into danger. Let those who died, like people drowned in ships sunk in the war, rest in peace.
I remember visiting the Coast in the mid-1960s. Yes it was quite different, However I can remember talking to a railways driver. There were still steam trains going across to the Coast. He said that the people there threatened to riot if they put Diesel Loco’s instead of coal powered ones on the route. He also said it was just talk and no-one living there had kept a coal range when they could get an electric one. They might talk about keeping coal but they weren’t actually going to use it themselves.
alwyn, I said nothing about Andrew Little, you are the one spinning yarns here.
I said that I was talking to an ex miner, nothing about Andrew.
alwyn, you did say… “Who wants to bet on the proposition that he (Andrew Little) will decide it is unsafe to try for a re-entry next year?”
I’ll take up your bet, I say they will go into the mine, I will wager you a 3 month self imposed ban.
What do you say?
What exactly did you have in mind for this wager. All you seem to be willing to say here is “I say they will go into the mine”.
I suppose you could argue that they have done this. Remember the brave face that Little put on when he, and a couple of the members of some of the deceased miners’ families put on as he went 30 metres into the portal to the point where it was sealed the other day?
What are you proposing? I’ll give you a good example to follow. John Kennedy said
“First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth”.
Quite explicit isn’t it? What to do. When to do it. How to judge success or failure.
How would you word the wager? Do you propose, for example, that people in the mission will travel right to the area where the men were working and, as far as I know, the explosion occurred, before 31 March. 2019? That is all the way into the mine.
If not, what would you suggest?
You are quite right about the first words of this comment. It was Rosemary who was talking about Little, Andrew. I do apologise for seeming to think that you were the one proposing him as an exemplar of integrity.
Nice dancing on the head of a pin alwyn. Cinny made a simple wager suggestion. And yes it was simple. The stakes arent even high but you had to go pseudo intellectual and self righteous rather than just acceptung or declining. Would that you were quite as analytical of Brownlee et al and the profit motive on these deaths as you are on Anrew Little.
Ironic that someone who has voted for those who have neutered unions now criticises a union for letting its members down
I’m sure that Cinny is capable of answering for herself.
Why do you feel the need to “interpret” what she has said?
I rather hoped that Cinny would have responded by now as to what she did have in mind for the wager. It obviously has to have a date. After all it could otherwise turn into something like Winston’s threats to sue the National Party and its MPs.
“I’m still going to do it” Winston says while all is otherwise silent.
I suppose Little supporters could claim in 2050, when no attempt at a proper re-entry has taken place,that it will still happen, sometime.
Why does Little persist in messing with the victim’s families with the false hopes he keeps proclaiming?
For Tracey’s benefit I would note that I am not criticising the Union. I am criticising Andrew Little.
What a ugly man you are Alwyn …
Utilising your long lack of empathy …. out of cameron slater and john key which one do you think was more likely to call bereaved mother of a pike river mine worker a bitch ?? … ,…..
the dead boys mother was a “bitch” who had heckled Key …according to Slater and published in Nicky Hagars “Dirty polictics”
I presume she did so over the hollowness and insincerity of his political stunt …his false promises to the dead pike river miners familys ….
The media nearly always gave key a pass for lieing ….. but not so from a young dead mans mother.
Totally missing from Alwyns mean eyed spit at this woman and other Pike river mine workers mothers: …is the Key and previous Nat Govts part in the criminal negligence that lead to these working mens deaths …….
cutting the number of mine inspectors … not enforcing regulations… Non-Compliant is virtually Nationals Trade Mark.
But what really shows up Key as a nasty arse-hole…. when his Governmnet received a multi-million insurance payout over Pike river…… the suggestion was put that some of that money be given to miners familys as compensation ……
Key “ they can sue “….Alwyn may well agree
We all know …At the end of the day 😉 😉 it was key who ran off from NZ politics
johnny made-off .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRqFBmiVMQU
You may, or may not, realise that I am not John Key.
Neither am I Cameron Slater.
That obviously doesn’t matter to you. You really are a nasty piece of work aren’t you? What gives you the right to abuse me for things I have never done?
What gives you the right to accuse me of things like, in your own disgusting dribble ” Alwyns mean eyed spit at this woman “? I have never done such a thing and I despise anyone who would do so.
I also despise people like you who propagate such lies.
Get back in your hole you miserable little excuse for a human being. If you are unable to tell the truth about me why don’t you just shut up?
Its not about you Alwyn ….. your smeary diversionary blame Little dribble needed putting straight….. its part of the ‘blame the union’ shit your sort cynically use.
Your skewered, one-sided, political statement on pike river was offensive to the victims … a written slap in the face for the mothers on mothers day.
your coming across as ugly as Key … using the victims for political gain ….” let them sue”…..
I don’t place much stock on a cynical ugly repeat liar and hypocrite calling me a liar….
Instead lets be reminded of a New Zealander with morals and Justice challenging the rot and corruption of the last national Government ….
Someone who did care about workers and people …. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/344562/pike-families-justice-should-not-be-bought
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11939650 … sorry for the Herald link … but it is a rare fair story from them.
“Mum always held that Pike was a crime scene; hopefully it will be treated as such by the new government.” …. a quote from Helen Kellys son
/
Frankly you are a complete nutter.
You have zero interest in the truth, or facts, or simple common-sense.
Crawl back into the cesspit of your fevered imagination.
You are completely beneath contempt.
You start a sentence with “I don’t place much stock ….”.
Well I don’t place much stock in the ravings of an idiot like you.
Stop running from the topic
Pike River,,, and your bat-shit politically motivated appropriation of Blame …
Managers, directors, design and mining safety specs … have all dissapeared behind a little union rep … according to angry Alwyn
By Not engaging with facts , shouty abuse,, and a dose of the shut-ups.. Alwyns providing a good example of an ongoing context … where the ugly and dishonest .. attack lie and deny ,,, those who expose them.
Dirty Politics …its in their blood.
John Key : ” …Nicky Hager is a screaming left-wing conspiracy theorist,”
Key and waynes gutsy Afghanistan attacks: “,,,,, “Stephenson’s integrity and credibility has been questioned by Prime Minister John Key, he’s been accused of fabricating testimony, of being an anti-war activist, of being part of a plot to undermine the New Zealand Defence Force.”
Pike river NAct PR :… John Key: ..”The first thing is I’m here to give you absolute reassurance, we’re committed to getting the boys out, and nothing’s going to change that. So – when people try and tell you we’re not, they’re playing, I hate to say it, but they’re playing with your emotions.”
“Following from the first explosion at Pike Rive Mine, there seemed much positive comment heaped upon the likes of Peter Whittall and John Key.”
versus the ugly actions and real attitudes,,,
John Key ” they can sue”
“Furthermore, – Pike River management barred union access to the site if a delegate attempted to come on site – which was their perfect legal right to do so due to legislation passed by this National government.” https://thestandard.org.nz/qc-describes-pike-river-mine-as-a-homicide-scene/
https://thestandard.org.nz/peter-talley-on-health-and-safety-law-unions-are-evil-workers-lives-cheap/
http://www.unite.org.nz/workers_union_slams_talley_s_work_culture_after_crewman_s_death
*PK … post key
The Mine Rescue guys would have been gutted. My Dad was in Mine Rescue, and he said leaving anyone down a mine was their worst nightmare. So proud of Andrew Little and such respect for the families.
A New Zealand nurse’s diary of one ordinary shift: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12048860
But but but GDP…. growth… when we have that we can treat our nurses and health services properly… oh wait
Not sure of your point here, are you saying less gdp growth would be good for nurses or more, or simply you have confused what ever the correlation is between GDP growth and nurses well being with causation
No wonder you are bewildered. We have been told for decades that growth in GDP is crucial and in some instances THE most important factor in
Wages being raised
Health and Education services being well funded
And so on.
But after 40 decades of constant GDP increases we have largely stagnant wages and nurses workng in untenable conditions.
I hope that clarifies it for you
These characters do that tax rort, and some go the “charity road”, as they can claim any donated money against the “public purse” @ 33% back again.
‘Charities’ are the new rout avenue. Clinton Foundation and so forth are really vehicles to channel money with tax advantages so it doesn’t look quite so much like a bribe or buying influence.
Personally not a fan of modern charities like KidsCan either that have millions in the bank, spend a lot of administration and make many think that government agencies and more austere type charities should be abandoned for the more glitzy marketing type of charity.
And I’ll only mention in passing, because with the rain today there’s gloom aplenty already, the many charities and trusts who have got their snouts firmly in the trough of government funded contracts to provide services in the ‘social’ sector.
They don’t make profits…they have surpluses…and pay no tax.
They can cause the deaths of people in their ‘care’ through under staffing and and are never properly held to account. By “held to account” i mean lose their fat contracts forever.
Hi. Am seeking the best books on recent (post-1984) NZ Political History – am aiming to guide a millenial. Here’s what I have so far:-
Simon Collins. 1987. Rogernomics: Is There A Better Way?;
Nicky Hagar. 2006. The Hollow Men;
Bruce Jesson. 1987. Behind The Mirror Glass;
Bruce Jesson. 1990. Fragments of Labour;
Harvey McQueen. 1991. The Ninth Floor: Inside the Prime Minister’s Office –
A Political Experience.
It’s a bit spartan so far. Anyone have any recommendations?
Also: Are these recommended?:-
Simon Sheppard. 1999. Broken Circle: The Decline And Fall Of The Fourth Labour Government;
Jon Johansson. 2009. The Politics of Possibility: Leadership in Changing
Times.
This is a beautifully written book by a NZ Rhodes scholar, Andrew Dean.
Also scores 4.11 rating out of 5 on Goodreads.
Ruth, Roger and Me
Debts and Legacies
Andrew Dean
https://www.bwb.co.nz/books/ruth-roger-and-me
Also the documentary
Somebody Elses Country
Alister Barry
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuniH7qAecTTf1NeSd1PyRA
scott
Some more thoughts about our interesting economic and political scene.
On Radionz The 9th floor – Book of 5 leaders
http://www.radionz.co.nz/programmes/the-9th-floor/story/201861258/the-book-launch-the-9th-floor
Series – http://www.radionz.co.nz/programmes/the-9th-floor
Dr Bill Sutch Economics – Balanced enterprises less weighted to farming
Read the presentations at the annual Bruce Jesson Journalism awards.
Geoffrey Palmer Unbridled Power
Marilyn Waring Counting for Nothing
Max Rashbrooke
Tim Hazeldine
Fabian addresses – must be on record
Book Till the Cows Came Home
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9282669/Russia-offered-MiGs-tanks-to-settle-NZ-debt
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/book-extract-till-cows-came-home-part-1-hold-holiday-review-dc-150320
Would you add “Bread and Roses” by Sonja Davis?
The Fabian presentations can be found here…https://www.fabians.org.nz/index.php?option=com_weblinks&view=category&id=68&Itemid=72
…and I’d throw in some of this guy’s work… https://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/
Thanks Rosemary for giving us all those links.
I have captured that link for Fabian – it takes so long to find stuff sometimes and have wanted to get them to hand for a while.
And Brian Easton – more good stuff. We need to water the good economists, give them some love, keep them going with their alternative thinking and turning of facts etc and flowering of ideas!
Thanks everybody! Much appreciated. Some good stuff here, natch. Whenever I think of Andrew Dean I think of Max Harris – encouraging that those of younger generations are looking backwards as well as looking forwards.
Brian Easton has, amongst others:-
The Making of Rogernomics (Auckland University Press, 1989)
Here’s a link to the Bruce Jesson awards presentations:
https://www.brucejesson.com/lectures-2/lectures/ with the lecturers list being authors worth seeking out:-
You may not like what is said but an essential book to read is Michael Bassett’s book on the 1984-1990 era, “Working with David”.
http://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/books.php?b=workingwithdavid
alwyn – we can tolerate what is said. We understand where Bassett was coming from. Whether we value what he says is another matter. No unpleasant surprises, so give up the “You may not like what he says.”
Bassett has not written another Bible.
I don’t care whether you agree with him. I couldn’t care less whether you value what he says. It is however essential reading if you want to understand what happened. Have you actually read the book?
Have you read all the books listed?
Stop challenging alwyn in vino. He is the arbiter of what amounts to essential reading, amongst other things
I agree it is essential reading to understand how the Labour Party spawned the ACT Party and people like Bassett kept being used by the media to comment on Labour, following his leaving parliament, as though he represented Labour views.
Rebecca Macfie Tragedy at Pike River Mine: How and Why 29 Men Died
Jane Kelsey. The Fire Economy.
Jonathan Boston, Simon Chapple Child Poverty in New Zealand.
Stunning representation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY&ab_channel=ChildishGambinoVEVO
This is a problem for the Papatuanuku society Sea level rise we are to short sighted we have the technology to exanine Papatuanuku history but we don’t no how to live for the future we live for the NOW for what we can get out of life now and not what we can give to OUR mokopunas lives this mind set has to change the old way was to try and give back better than what we received. We need to change building codes to mitigate SEA level rise now or it will be a 1000x worst than the problem we have that our farmers have at the minute .We can not just ignore the problem because the longer we have OUR heads in the sand the bigger the mess we will have to clean up. A few bold moves now will save lives and billions of$$$$$ for OUR mokopunas THIS IS FACT here.s the link.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/103404456/a-profound-crisis-sealevel-rise-and-the-remaking-of-the-world Ka kite ano P.S I know that we have a housing shortage but ignoring Sea level rise is just pushing a bigger problem to OUR mokos .
Heres a man that has similar views to Eco Maori it is lies and dishonesty that causes a society to collapse Michael Bloomberg heres the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/12/michael-bloomberg-epidemic-of-dishonesty-threat-democracy Ka kite ano
We must keep the Mana Wahine movement going Kia kaha ka kite ano here the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/12/cate-blanchett-and-kristen-stewart-join-silent-womens-protest-on-cannes-red-carpet P.S Equality for all Eco Maori says
One has to think out side the square to be as successful as this man Eco Maori admires here is the link. Ka kite ano
http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/19/space-x-launches-nasa-planet-hunter
P.S he will be——-them bro kia kaha
Eco Maori has to be careful whom I back because I can see a phenomenon.
The powers that be don’t like to be shown up by a Kiwi Maori Cultured Man from Te Waiapu Vally Tairawhiti like the idiots playing with there sounds and flashing neon lights at the minute . Ka kite ano
Good Evening NewsHub the better we care for the vulnerable mokopunas at the earliest we can the higher they will climb up there ladders of life.
That is reality for the working class poor the hardest hit from inequality in income and the brown poor people get hit the hardest the income disparities are shocking go to the high end of town and you see boats flash cars one million dollar house own by two people the other end and one see nothing but poverty people going with out basic needs.
I can rember 10 years ago life was a lot easier and the cost of living was a lot cheaper .
Ka kite ano