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Open mike 12/05/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 12th, 2022 - 89 comments
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89 comments on “Open mike 12/05/2022 ”

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  1. ianmac 1
    12 May 2022 at 7:15 am

    National's reporter Coughlin reports on the Willis grand speech but even he is luke warm in his report. Wishy washy I think.

    This week, National finance spokeswoman Nicola Willis delivered her first major speech since taking on the role in March.

    Intended as a scene-setter for the Budget, the speech was also meant to set out Willis's vision for the role, often seen as the most important Cabinet post after the job of prime minister.

    The speech, delivered to the Canterbury Employers' Chamber of Commerce, was focused on restoring "discipline" to government policy and spending – a line National has been rolling out for months.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nicola-willis-on-her-first-big-speech-and-when-to-expect-tax-cuts/JF63KYTWO7QYXOH2OHKOZ3FSXI/

  2. Tricledrown 2
    12 May 2022 at 7:46 am

    Willis selling Austerity when as we know National cut govt funding then then use that money to higher in consultants (their cronies ie Jenny Shipley $450,000 for 16 meetings) who propagandise National political policy.

  3. Tricledrown 3
    12 May 2022 at 7:56 am

    David Clark is releasing the inquiry into the supermarket /retail grocery market Duopoly of Progressive and Foodsfuffs. Hopefully its progressive and not a stuff up like Clark is very capable of. One thing is Why are both Foodsfuffs and Progressive allowed to each hold a 10% stake in their biggest competitor the Warehouse if he doesn't force them to divest and allow the Warehouse to compete Clark will continue to be seen as useless.It looks like the duopoly are preempting this report to make the inquiry look irelavent.If Clark fails he will be on his bike with the rest of Labour in 18 months.

    • Jenny how to get there 3.1
      12 May 2022 at 8:07 am

      This mornings headlines

      "Supermarkets in price war"

      Words matter,

      Everyone hates war. War is a bad thing.

      What's the message here?

      Maybe the headlines should read;

      Supermarket duopoly shamed into lowering prices.

    • Chris T 3.2
      12 May 2022 at 8:51 am

      Call me Mr Conspiracy Theory, but the biggest issue with duopolies is how easy it is to collude together with pricing levels.

      • mac1 3.2.1
        12 May 2022 at 9:12 am

        No argument there, C(hris)T. According to this article consumers do not benefit with duopolies. Instead they work to shut out new players and new services, and to fix prices.

        https://sendpulse.com/support/glossary/duopoly

        • Ed1 3.2.1.1
          12 May 2022 at 10:32 am

          With the electricity market there are more players – they just take turns to be highest costs / lowest cost, as market prices generally continue to rise. Now that is changing however as they complicate charges so that it is difficult for anyone to determine where they will get lowest cost – the Theresa Gattung strategy. Ya gotta love the "Free" market!

      • Sabine 3.2.2
        12 May 2022 at 12:11 pm

        Maybe the Warehouse muscling in on the duopoly will change a bit?

    • Patricia Bremner 3.3
      12 May 2022 at 2:29 pm

      David Clark has a penchant for mathematics and systems. He has beaten Woodhouse for the Dunedin seat for a number of elections.

      I wonder if Woodhouse/mates of, spotted David Clarke's outings during the lockdown? It would not surprise me, given Woodhouse's lies involvement and even instigation of rumours and bullying. He of the "toilet and photo on the seat,' made up "homeless man", and recipient of leaked personal patient details. The man is a worm, never mind his "dangerous worm farm" fame.

      David has kept his head down and his work is already causing the duopoly to lower prices, but it will not be enough, and I look forward to the Report coming out, as David fights Goliath, as no-one else has done before, and he has caused a reaction.

  4. Visubversa 4
    12 May 2022 at 9:08 am

    A new resource for people concerned about the new ideology in schools.

    https://www.resistgendereducation.nz

  5. weka 5
    12 May 2022 at 9:41 am

    Good piece about fa'afafine and other GNC people in non-Western societies. Of particular note is that this researcher is naming Western LGBTQ+ movements as gender colonisers where they project western gender values and expression onto other cultures. This isn't a new idea, but I think he explained it well.

    I also like that it breaks the Western obsession with hormone treatment and surgery, and affirms the idea that if we were actually accepting of gender non-conformity then many people could be who they are without radical medical treatments. This in turn opens the door to one of the ways out of the current sex/gender war. Lots to like here for both sides.

    Unlike many trans people in the West who identify as male-to-female, fa’afafine and muxes recognize that they have male bodies and that these are immutable. A tiny number might femininize their bodies with hormones or even more rarely surgery, but no one in their local communities, least of all fa’afafine and muxes themselves, believe that such procedures transform them into females. Given that they do not identify as women and recognize that they are male, dysphoria about sex or gender has traditionally been relatively uncommon in these cultures, my research has shown.

    https://www.newsweek.com/stop-imposing-western-lgbtq-identities-non-western-cultures-its-gender-colonialism-opinion-1705785

    If western societies weren’t so homophobic and gender enforcing, then men who want to dress and behave like stereotpyical women could do so without insisting on having access to women’s spaces and women’s business. Likewise, young women wouldn’t hate being female so much that they prefer to remove their breasts and take masculinising hormones.

    The core issue there for men is that they need to make the changes so that GNC males feel comfortable in male spaces. What we have now is a gross abrogation of that responsibility, and instead expecting women to give up rights.

    The issues for GNC women are different but also result from societal pressures, these ones based in sexism and misogyny. We are losing ground around women’s rights outside of the gender/sex wars, girls and young women are growing up under intense pressure and few are taking any notice.

    • Molly 5.1
      12 May 2022 at 11:50 am

      You may have missed this example when I posted a couple of days ago, weka.

      Dealing with the single-sex prison estate issue since 2014, successfully:

      At the Los Angeles County Men's Central Jail, a separate wing exists for gay, bisexual, and transgender inmates. Since its creation, the unit has gained a reputation as one of the safer, community-oriented units.

      But getting in isn't easy. A series of questions, past incarcerations, arrest records, and resources are utilized to determine whether an inmate can be classified for this special unit. If one doesn't pass, it's back to the general population.

      The unit, known as the K6G, is home to approximately 360 GBT inmates. It was established in 1985 after the ACLU filed a lawsuit urging for the protection and prevention of assault against LGBT inmates.

      Video included in the link:

      https://www.kcet.org/shows/socal-connected/clip/life-behind-bars-for-gbt-inmates-at-the-k6g

    • Sabine 5.2
      12 May 2022 at 8:24 pm

      just came across this, and thought about your comment here.

      https://twitter.com/LavenderAndFire/status/1465753034307387398/photo/1

      • weka 5.2.1
        12 May 2022 at 10:57 pm

        nice one. Particularly like the bit at the end about sex and sex/gender system.

        • left for dead 5.2.1.1
          13 May 2022 at 5:35 pm

          weka and all the others here must listen Nat Rad,Kill Hill will be speaking for an hour to Kathleen Stock(Saturday morning)9-10

          • weka 5.2.1.1.1
            13 May 2022 at 7:47 pm

            oh excellent? Let's hope KH pays attention and doesn't go into major interruption mode. Ask the hard questions, but less of the stupid ones.

            • weka 5.2.1.1.1.1
              13 May 2022 at 7:49 pm

              Evenhanded intro, although I guess gender ID activists won't like it.

              9.05 Kathleen Stock: the professor who lost her career amid toxic gender debate

              Kathleen Stock was a professor of philosophy at the University of Sussex for 18 years, but quit her post last year amid angry protests over her views on gender and transgender rights. In her book Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism, Stock writes on her belief that biological sex is immutable and cannot be changed, therefore people that choose to transition genders are living in “immersive fiction”.

              Stock, who describes herself as a gender non-conforming lesbian, says questions about sex and gender are deeply philosophical, but people – including academics – are scared to talk about it due to the toxicity that surrounds the debate.

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday

            • left for dead 5.2.1.1.1.2
              13 May 2022 at 8:05 pm

              Lets hope,we will see where she stands,KH had been my here hero.

              • roblogic …
                13 May 2022 at 8:20 pm

                I don't have too much hope, KH didn't stop Judith Butler's torrent of nonsense. KH is not as sharp and critical as she once would have been

  6. SPC 6
    12 May 2022 at 9:42 am

    Xi Jinping's determination to eliminate COVID, is as much a manifestation of a determination to be (seen to be) in control as it is prudent management of the problem being faced in the here and now.

    It has echoes of the old regime, where one party state rule came before the economy and society.

    It may be the same flaw, in strong man rulers, that led Putin to his aggression in Ukraine.

    If so, it may have harmful impact on more than China – first in disruption in the global supply chain and second because of recourse to foreign policy adventurism.

  7. higherstandard 7
    12 May 2022 at 10:24 am

    Politicians shouting at each other in parliament what a pack of muppets.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [lprent: If you can’t address anything of relevance to a post – especially on the first comment – then just don’t comment. Otherwise it is just another hypocritical Muppet displaying their lack of skill in a debate. Banned two weeks for wasting the time of everyone reading your comment. ]

  8. pat 8
    12 May 2022 at 10:38 am

    "So, is oil really worth $100 a barrel? Another way of looking at it is to compare oil to a horse. A horse laboring a standard 40-hour work week (eight hours a day, five days a week, 50 weeks a year) would have to labor for more than one year to produce the energy in a barrel of oil. Do you think a horse could be fed and maintained for a year for $100? Not likely.

    Human labor is even worse. A fit human adult can sustain about one-tenth of a horsepower, so a human would have to labor more than 10 years to equal a barrel of oil."

    https://www.mcall.com/opinion/mc-xpm-2011-05-24-mc-barrel-oil-explainit-20110524-story.html

    Work and energy…..how do we value those in our society who do the work?

    We may be discovering we are rewarding the wrong things.

  9. Temp ORary 9
    12 May 2022 at 10:59 am

    I was reading this in the Spinoff (having seen the Canadian story elsewhere):

    Just last month, Canada lifted its own “gay blood ban”, prompting the question: is Aotearoa now out of step internationally?

    Aotearoa has historically been a leader in the field of blood donation. But maintaining the safety of the blood supply now comes at at the cost of stigmatising a community with an unfortunately rich history of social and policy discrimination.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/11-05-2022/overturning-the-gay-blood-ban-isnt-as-simple-and-straightforward-as-it-seems

    Which had me thinking of this piece from last year:

    Gay and bisexual men will now be able to donate blood but only if they abstain from sex with other men for three months, the New Zealand Blood Service has announced…The change will take effect from December 14.

    The same reduction will also apply for people who previously lived in a country known to have a high prevalence of HIV, as well as sex workers and their partners…

    New Zealand has low rates of HIV compared with international rates: In 2018 there were only 178 new diagnoses and sexual transmission accounted for most cases.

    While the majority of new diagnoses were gay men, the annual number of heterosexual men and women infected with HIV in New Zealand has risen gradually since the mid-1990s.

    A lifetime ban on blood donation for men who have sex with other men was introduced in the 1980s amid concerns about HIV.

    In 2014, New Zealand reduced blood donor deferral from five years to 12 months for individuals whose circumstances carried a greater probability of transmission of infections through blood transfusion.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300183173/blood-donation-rule-change-will-allow-more-gay-bisexual-men-to-give

    There's also the ban on collecting blood from anyone; who lived in the UK, France or Ireland between 1980 and 1996, due to CJD risk. Which is getting to be a fair chunk of the eligible population barred from giving blood ("about 20%") during Pandemics. So this is not simply targeted at gay men. But it is hardly a foolproof system:

    What if they just lie (or "forget") about it?

    • Molly 9.1
      12 May 2022 at 11:43 am

      I would consider it a risk vs supply scenario.

      As the supply becomes more critical, the risk factors carry less weight, and the balance between the two changes.

      Did the pandemic put such a strain on the supply that the balance had changed?

      "What if they just lie (or "forget") about it?"

      I can understand someone wanting to contribute. I have little patience for those whose desire to do so, is used as an excuse to bypass current restrictions by lying or 'forgetting'. There have been some recent articles about the positive benefits of matching blood by sex. Perhaps a part-answer to this dilemma if blood supply runs short is to match blood donated by gay men to other gay men (or others) who consent to receive it.

      Despite being a blood donor in the past, I'm one of the UK cohort now prohibited.

      If they determine that the CJD fear no longer has merit, than I'm sure many will return to donating. Until that point, the risk vs supply calculation remains.

      • Molly 9.1.1
        12 May 2022 at 4:33 pm

        Actually the NZ Blood Service site is a great informative source, with eligibility criteria plainly laid out.

        https://www.nzblood.co.nz/become-a-donor/am-i-eligible/detailed-eligibility-criteria/#:~:text=Your%20eligibility%20is%20determined%20by,last%20sexual%20contact%20before%20donating.

        There's a quick precis for homosexual men that want to donate, as well as a link to a 2020 report:

        Homosexual Men

        Your eligibility is determined by your sexual behaviour and history, not by your sexual orientation.

        If you are a male who has had oral or anal sex with another man, with or without a condom, you must wait 3 months since your last sexual contact before donating.

        This criterion also applies to those who have participated in sex work or have exchanged money for sex, those who have previously lived in a country that presents a high prevalence of HIV, and anyone who has taken a HIV preventative drug such as PrEP or PEP. For full details, please refer to this 2020 report from NZBS and the University of Auckland.

        UK NHS changed the criteria last year to ask anyone who participated in anal sex follow up questions. I would assume it is to do with the efficiency of the sperm-blood vector for blood borne disease.

        https://www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/news/landmark-change-to-blood-donation-eligibility-rules-on-today-s-world-blood-donor-day/#:~:text=Anyone%20who%20has%20had%20anal,for%20gonorrhoea%20will%20be%20deferred.

        • Temp ORary 9.1.1.1
          12 May 2022 at 9:06 pm

          Re: your first reply Molly. The research on; the positive benefits of matching blood by sex, though intriguing, isn't that recent – nor is it that convincing:

          The risk of dying was about the same after getting blood from a man or a never-pregnant women, regardless of the recipient’s sex. But every unit of blood that a man got from a woman who had been pregnant raised his chance of dying 13 percent.

          The results are “provocative,” said Dr. Ritchard Cable of the American Red Cross, which supplies just over 40 percent of U.S. blood transfusions…

          When you test a lot of things, you’re supposed to adjust your math to reduce the chance of an association popping up at random. The researchers didn’t, they acknowledge, prompting what Cable called “lively discussion” by the paper’s reviewers and JAMA editors about whether the statistical analysis passed muster…

          The researchers don’t even know what the transfusion recipients died of, let alone “why the [mortality] effect should be limited to … {sic} men under 50,” Middelburg said in an interview. He and his colleagues therefore call their findings “very tentative” in the paper.

          https://www.statnews.com/2017/10/17/blood-transfusions-pregnant-women/

          However, I don't have the university journal access that I once did; it is certainly possible that other more robust studies have since been published. However, what research is freely available online suggests a peak in the field around 2017, then almost nothing after 2020 (but then most medical researchers have been a bit busy elsewhere these last couple of years).

          As regards NZ blood donor's; sexual behaviour and history, I do have to note that is confined to:

          • Following oral or anal sex with or without a condom with another man (if you are male).
          • After engaging in sex work (prostitution) or accepting payment in exchange for sex.
          • If you are a woman, after engaging in sex with a man who has had oral or anal sex with another man

          Why is it safer for a women to have oral or anal sex with a man than a man? Condom use is likely higher amongst many sex workers (depending on their circumstances), but they are somehow a greater risk than an amateur women who is into unprotected butt stuff? That a mongamous gay couple can be seen as inherently more risky than any sexually active women or straight man (who aren't sex workers or junkies), seems to mean that gay marriage is not really recognized as equally valid by the NZBS:

          Warren Dempsey-Coy, who has been in a monogamous relationship with his husband for more than 30 years, said this might seem like progress but it was not.

          “I still see it as discrimination. There is one set of rules for a certain section of people and another for the rest.

          “Blood is blood and every donation is screened. I am a gay, married man with no risk of having HIV and yet I would still have to abstain from sex for three months to give blood.

          “For me, it is nothing but a slap in the face.”

          It seems like the NZBS donation criteria have been cludged together in an ad hoc manner over decades. They really could do with a systematic review to increase consistency across the board.

          • Molly 9.1.1.1.1
            13 May 2022 at 4:16 am

            Thanks for that, re blood donor and sex. I did refer to articles so I knew it wasn't conclusive, but you've provided more details.

            You are right about the identification of gay men. I think sexual behaviours have changed fairly recently with anal sex less likely to be solely within the cohort of homosexuals.

            I always thought the issue included the possibility of Aids transmission, but also as mentioned the efficiency of the semen to blood vector for any blood borne disease. Regardless of sex/sexual orientation. Which is why the UK asks about sexual behaviour, not orientation. The UK also has a higher number of immigrants/visitors from countries with high levels of Aids so it still makes sense to screen in some form.

            I don't understand the 3 month interval myself, as it assumes that any infection is no longer present. I'd have to read the report and see if they explain that interval. The points you make about male and female make sense. The more accurate way would be to screen all donors by testing, but I assume the cost would be prohibitive.

            I agree that monogamy limits exposure. Prostitutes, however, have incredibly high levels of exposure. The risk is high there. Given that blood is provided to those with health challenges, this is a balance of risk vs benefit.

            Do you think perhaps there's been little considered change because the current measures provide enough supply? ( ie. no immediate pressure to make changes?)

  10. adam 10
    12 May 2022 at 11:25 am

    How crazy are the neo-cons – very…

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-us-show-it-can-win-a-nuclear-war-russia-putin-ukraine-nato-sarmat-missile-testing-warning-11651067733

    Sorry pay wall, the have a bit where by you can listern to it. But essentially, they want the US to fight and win a nuclear war with Russia.

    Yeah right.

    • joe90 10.1
      12 May 2022 at 12:04 pm

      But essentially, they want the US to fight and win a nuclear war with Russia.

      I parse it as the author saying that a nuclear war should never be fought but if Russia were to start one, the US should be prepared to win.

      But hey, cite away, dude.

      https://archive.ph/6uQ1s

      • adam 10.1.1
        12 May 2022 at 1:48 pm

        So your saying a neo-con saying MAD is fine, is fine with you dude?

        You get a nuclear war is a exchange of nuclear weapons? And this was my point.

        This fool is arguing for such an exchange. In the fact he wants to remove second strike ability, thus leaving Russia with no option but first strike.

        Thus leaving the caged idiot Putin who has penchant for shooting first, only one option to shoot first with – nukes.

        Neo-con logic at it's finest.

  11. aj 11
    12 May 2022 at 1:36 pm

    Anyone who thinks there will be a 'winner' in a nuclear war is crazier than the participants.

  12. joe90 12
    12 May 2022 at 2:06 pm

    The illustrations. Fuck.

    First 20 years. While the real veterans were alive, they remembered at what cost this victory was won, and how the Central Committee and the Cheka reacted to those who won it. Best of all, real veterans are illustrated by the picture "Moloch of War", banned in Sovka. Only psychopaths and necrophiles want to "repeat" this.

    Every year on May 9, the slogan “no one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten” strikes me the most. It was invented in the late Soviet years, when there were almost no real war veterans left.

    But what really happened in the Stalin years.

    google translate

    • RedLogix 12.1
      12 May 2022 at 8:15 pm

      A very moving pic for me personally. While in Russia I saw things very close to this – a man with no legs on an identical trolley – and a homeless boy huddled for warmth around an Eternal Flame just like this one. At -20degC.

      • Blazer 12.1.1
        13 May 2022 at 5:42 pm

        Maybe you should visit the home of the Cherokee and the land of the debt slave.

        Check it out 40 million on food stamps….homelessness in San Fran,Detroit,NY ..in fact most big cities is mind blowing.

        Trying to get a min wage of $15 an hour atm.

        As for medical care!!frown

  13. Chris T 13
    12 May 2022 at 3:37 pm

    You couldn't make this stuff up.

    "Govt spent $235k on social media 'listening reports"

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/govt-spent-235k-social-media-listening-reports

    • weka 13.1
      12 May 2022 at 5:44 pm

      what's the problem specifically?

      • Chris T 13.1.1
        12 May 2022 at 5:57 pm

        Nothing particularly, but I do have an issue with govts looking like they are making policy decisions based on the public that can still afford the internet and care about social media while basing policy on their opinion.

        I would have the same issue if they spent $235k on surveying old people's homes. Or teachers.

        • Ad 13.1.1.1
          12 May 2022 at 9:18 pm

          Yes they really do listen, in all kinds of useful aggregate ways, to help inform policy.

          So they should.

        • Temp ORary 13.1.1.2
          12 May 2022 at 9:24 pm

          $235,000 / 5,000,000 = 5 cents per Aotearoan.

          While I do think that the selection sample is likely less than than the entire population, these 150 (58 + 92, or "nearly 100" as this NZH reprint would have it) analyses of views; already in the public arena from Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and other local blogs and forums, were likely representative of some of the concerns of NZers in general.

          I have less of a problem with the DPMC attempting to get a feel for the concerns of the general public (or at least those who like to mouth off online) than I would if a government attempted to proceed in total ignorance. If anything, they shouldn't have cheaped out on this, and instead commissioned more robust (and thus expensive) research.

        • joe90 13.1.1.3
          12 May 2022 at 9:33 pm

          surveying old people's homes. Or teachers.

          The ombudsman, aged care commissioner and ERO.

        • Chris T 13.1.1.4
          12 May 2022 at 10:31 pm

          While I have a certain agreement with your view. It depends on which social media "THEY CHOSE" to listen to.

          Everyone thinks they are are doing things right if they just look at comments saying they are doing things right.

          There are millions of websites, and it can be easy to tend to stick to those that everyone one agrees with you on.

          Not that I know which they look at, so this point might be a stretch. If so I apologise.

          • weka 13.1.1.4.1
            12 May 2022 at 11:19 pm

            I think the fact that they hire businesses who specialise in social media analysis suggests they're not just looking at random tweets and forming policy from them.

  14. Jimmy 14
    12 May 2022 at 3:44 pm

    The judges need to get tougher on crime. 39 year old no drivers licence. He will probably pay the pittance of a fine after 28 days and then drive the vehicle home again without a licence! Harden up judges.

    Forbidden to drive: Man who has never had a licence caught driving – again | Stuff.co.nz

  15. Stuart Munro 15
    12 May 2022 at 4:30 pm

    What – no post on Faafoi's folly?

    The reforms include introducing a medium wage – $27.76 – for most Accredited Employer Work Visas and for Foreign Fishing Visas. https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/05/12/faafoi-defends-immigration-reforms-from-hospo-criticism/

    Accredited employers? Did you learn nothing from the decades of roiling debacles like slave fishing Khriss? Do not outsource important legal powers like work visas to employers – any that want them cannot be trusted with them. Fund a fully staffed Immigration service properly for Chrissakes.

    And $27.76? That's not a skilled worker by any stretch of the imagination. Try $35.00 – and that's a bargain.

    Clearly we are returning to the fucking stupid policies of John Key – "Cheap migrant workers? Have as many as you like."

    • Poission 15.1
      12 May 2022 at 5:53 pm

      Hospo and tourism are 25$

      For the tourism and hospitality sectors, a threshold of $25 per hour is in place until April next year.

      Bad way to get wage inflation down.

      • Nic the NZer 15.1.1
        12 May 2022 at 6:09 pm

        Why would you want wage inflation down? And just how far below the CPI is it presently?

        • Poission 15.1.1.1
          12 May 2022 at 6:18 pm

          On the concomitant increases in minimum wage and hospo price increases.

          The higher prices in restaurant meals and ready-to-eat food coincided with the minimum wage increase, which increased from $20.00 to $21.20 on 1 April. Restaurant meals and ready-to-eat food had the largest monthly increase in over a decade, up 1.4 percent. This was mainly due to higher prices for dine-in lunches, hamburgers, and coffee.

          https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/annual-food-price-increase-remains-high-at-6-4-percent

          And if signwriters thought they were in for a business uptake,they are wrong stickers are the new black.

      • In Vino 15.1.2
        12 May 2022 at 6:22 pm

        We don't need to get wage inflation down. We need to allow the underpaid to regain fair pay by dropping the percentage nonsense (which always favours the rich and enlarges their margins) by allowing the same flat increase to everybody, including the rich.

        If CEO of Air NZ gets $350,000 pay increase, then so do teachers, nurses, social workers and all beneficiaries. Everybody.

        A couple of years of that would correct the unequal distribution of wealth that exists now because we have been suckered into believing that the same percentage increase for everyone is fair.

        It is not, and the results are now obvious.

        • Poission 15.1.2.1
          12 May 2022 at 6:44 pm

          We see that real wages start to increase to somewhat realistic levels ( due to constraints on immigration) and as border controls relax, then we suddenly need more lower paid workers (the consensus across parliament) rental and housing prices increase,the OCR increases again etc …

          • Stuart Munro 15.1.2.1.1
            12 May 2022 at 9:04 pm

            How very far Labour have come, from being the party that supports workers, to being the Trojan horse for mass unskilled labour in the midst of a housing affordability crisis.

            God only knows why hospo and fishing are singled out for even lower wages too – it's not as if they've been creaming it. The fisherfolk were already on the edge of penury from the way the QMS advantaged the larger companies. Bye bye innovation – large companies are run by accountants, not fishermen. They couldn't innovate on a bet.

            • Ad 15.1.2.1.1.1
              12 May 2022 at 9:22 pm

              This has been the most immigration-restrictive government in decades.

              Already we have rest home managers that are decreasing the number of beds rather than decrease quality of care.

              A great moment to take stock of your life, get out of industries that don't treat you well, re-train and do something in even higher demand and higher wages.

              • Stuart Munro …
                12 May 2022 at 9:31 pm

                I'm five years from retirement Ad, already overqualified in two industries and haven't had an offer above mw in NZ for three decades. This is what you get when parties sell out their constituents.

                get out of industries that don't treat you well

                Better that the government, whose wages I ultimately pay, stops making illegal concessions to drive down wages in my chosen profession. Unless you think we should tolerate or normalize corruption?

                • RedLogix …
                  12 May 2022 at 9:59 pm

                  Ad and I are on your side with this Stuart. You are clearly a capable and competent person with good judgement and highly employable.

                  Getting kicked in the nuts multiple times by industries that turn out to be shitty employers is no fun – but the ground has shifted. 2022 is the year when fully half the Baby Boomers – the largest post-War generation in most of the world retires. And each one of us takes 40 years of experience and skills with us, resulting in the biggest shortage of skilled labour ever. It is the reason why I have tried to retire three times now and each time been made an offer I cannot refuse.

                  We moved to Aus for 'five or six years of adventure' right at the end of my working life. And a decade later we are still at it.

              • Poission …
                12 May 2022 at 10:05 pm

                Rest home nurses are paid more then the minimum wage restrictions.Covid is reducing the bed numbers more then staffing shortages.

                • Ad …
                  13 May 2022 at 7:58 am

                  That's not my experience. COVID has a strong operational effect, but the RN nurses that come over from Thailand and Philippines usually do their two years to get the full NZ registration, then get poached by the public health system.

                  Those that are left still get their minimum wage or just over, but get 'requested' to do double shifts and 1 day a week off.

                • pat …
                  13 May 2022 at 8:06 am

                  ".Covid is reducing the bed numbers more then staffing shortages."

                  Do you mean the number of bed available have reduced or the number of beds occupied?

              • Poission …
                12 May 2022 at 10:19 pm

                This has been the most immigration-restrictive government in decades.

                Only since covid,the so called regional skills list from Immigration (2019) is beyond the pale ( written from central casting for sure)

                Northland skill shortage.

                Recreation,Hospitality and Tourism

                Jockey (Trackwork Rider)

                Outdoor Adventure Guide
                (Skydive Tandem Master)

                Snowsport Instructor
                (including Technicians)

                https://skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/assets/uploads/immediate-skill-shortage-list.pdf

              • Molly …
                13 May 2022 at 4:30 am

                "Already we have rest home managers that are decreasing the number of beds rather than decrease quality of care. "

                The quality of care in many homes is quite low. I'd be interested in knowing which managers are doing this, and whether it's based on quality of care or extra costs due to isolation requirements for new inhabitants.

                As for the getting out of industries remark… Surely we are past the point of blaming individuals for the regulatory and policy failures of successive governments?

                • Ad …
                  13 May 2022 at 7:54 am

                  My experience is that rest homes are a totally cost-driven business. The rest homes closing down through skills shortages have been discussed by RNZ this week.

                  As for transitioning out of failing industries, people have been doing it for decades and it's not anyone's fault. As our export markets change so we have to as well.

                  • Molly …
                    13 May 2022 at 11:27 am

                    Rest homes are profitable cost driven businesses with inadequate regulatory oversight and monitoring. Due to this environment the service ranges from 2xcellent to abysmal.

                    There is a difference between failing industries and industries failing to pay a living wage.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    13 May 2022 at 5:04 pm

                    As for transitioning out of failing industries, people have been doing it for decades and it's not anyone's fault.

                    Sure – government policy is never to blame. The sinking lid that killed the public service as a career path was not the Brownian motion of random collisions but a coldly (some say brutally) calculated move on the part of certain politicians. The decline of the coastal shipping industry, the collapse of multiple fisheries under the inadequate QMS, the failure to develop fisheries and aquaculture as agriculture was once developed by a network of state research and training facilities – these could've happened to anyone.

                    Anyone whose government repeatedly dropped the ball.

                    • Ad …
                      13 May 2022 at 5:29 pm

                      Maybe somewhat, but mostly we change careers because some markets shrink and some expand. There's not a whole bunch the government can do about the decline in printers for printing and rise of digital services, the decline in horse dressage specialists and the rise of cars, the decline of semaphore and the rise of cellphones, the decline of playwrights and the rise of Youtube, the decline of lace collar specialists and the rise of activewear.

                      Nor anything unions or the state could have done about it.

                      You can oversubscribe causality to governments pretty easily.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    14 May 2022 at 6:28 am

                    some markets shrink and some expand

                    In industries where corrupt government created monopolies, like the QMS, hold sway, shrinkage is the rule.

                    But although the majority of NZ fisheries companies retrenched throughout the period of dark neoliberal fantasy that prevailed from 1990, there have been successes like Southern Clams. Sustainably designed, not built on slave workers, growing in spite of supposedly adverse market conditions, this is what a fishing sector would look like absent the fatuous nonsense that comes from sector lobbying.

              • Stuart Munro …
                13 May 2022 at 6:11 pm

                Well it sure wasn't me that implemented the inequitable and unscientific (and coincidentally ineffectual at protecting key species) QMS. That was the government of the day.

                It wasn't me that let the foreign charter game devolve from hiring vessels from specialist nations that NZ companies could learn from, to bringing in and normalizing slave ships – a practice that has now extended right across the economy with dirt cheap, completely unskilled, often fraudulently qualified workers, whose only function is to drive down wages in one of the most expensive economies to live in in the world.

                It wasn't me that utterly failed to transition the crude extraction fisheries to a sustainable and extendable predominantly aquacultural model. I've put my heart and soul into my vocation, for negligible reward with occasional ridicule from the lazy hacks momentarily floating through the Minister of Fisheries sinecure without achieving anything of value. That too is on them.

                I guess you're big on laissez faire "the state can do nothing" – but the state came in and stole the fisheries that were my livelihood, and those of my deceased colleagues. I will never forgive them – but had they a shred of human decency they would apologize to the victims of their overweening arrogance and manifest incompetence.

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