Open Mike 12/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 12th, 2018 - 155 comments
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155 comments on “Open Mike 12/06/2018”

  1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

    Trump and Kim will meet accompanied only by interpreters.

    On the agenda: real estate and money laundering opportunities, bribe management, meth and human trafficking arrangements, contract killing.

  2. Ed 2

    According to Pete George, this does not constitute a crisis for our democracy.

    Bryce Edwards sees it differently.

    Nearly 64% of the electorate did NOT vote.
    18% of the electorate voted for Bidois.

    “But what about the fact that there was a low voter turnout. According to the Electoral Commission, voter turnout is estimated to be 43.7%. This figure is based on the numbers that have voted, as a percentage of those enrolled. However, the Electoral Commission and Statistics New Zealand previously estimated that in Northcote there is an eligible voter population of 54,790 (of which about nine per cent are not enrolled). So, when you take that into account, the 19,900 who voted, make up an even smaller “real” voter turnout – which is well under 40%.

    It also means that the vote for each candidate as a proportion of all eligible voters in Northcote is somewhat smaller than it might initially appear, since about 35,000 eligible voters choose not to vote – which somewhat overshadows the 10,147 who voted for the winning candidate.”

    http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2018/06/northcote-voter-turnout-lower-than.html

    • tc 2.1

      Compulsory voting is the solution. Oz have done it for decades and there’s engagement across the demographics as a result.

      National rejected that along with pretty much every other suggested reform, my how surprising. Keeps the bastards honest, where that’s practical for some parties, when they know the disaffected are forced to vote.

      Like road rules they serve a greater good even if they’re not popular.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2

      Stv returns mayors in places like wellington with as little as 22% of the actual vote and as little as 11% of the enrolled vote.

      No one screamed constitutional crises when the dippiest dipper ever, Celia wade brown, was voted in

      • Robert Guyton 2.2.1

        Farrar and his cronies certainly did. But then, they’re constantly screaming.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2.1.1

          I ignore broken records like Farrar. Our views align in some areas but his messaging is wrong

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.1

            Some of your views align with “broken record” Farrar?
            Which ones?

    • dukeofurl 2.3

      What a lot of silly nonsense.

      Think of it as like an opinion poll, but instead of say 300 giving their view, its 19,000

      In other words , THE RESULT WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THOUGH EVERYONE VOTED.

      The idea that 19,000 vote and we dont know what ALL the actual voters think is seriously nutty thinking
      Bryce Edwards needs a good telling off

      • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1

        In other words , THE RESULT WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THOUGH EVERYONE VOTED.

        Probably not actually. The people who vote tend to be more right-wing and rich compared to those who don’t.

    • Gosman 2.4

      This was a by-election at the start of the term of a new government for a seat previously held by the opposition. Of course turnout will be low. There was nothing really at stake. Jumping up and down and trying to call this the death of democracy in NZ is ridiculous.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.5

      As I say, we need compulsory voting. Voluntary voting simply isn’t working.

      Australia shows that compulsory voting works far better.

      • David Mac 2.5.1

        Does it Draco? This from a stuff article after their 2016 Federal Election:

        “A long winter federal election campaign in Australia that clashed with school holidays has resulted in the biggest voter no-show in the country since compulsory voting began in 1925.

        More than 1.4 million Australians last month failed to cast a vote for the House of Representatives in what ultimately became a cliff-hanger election. The figure represents more than 9 per cent of 15.7 million eligible voters.

        The turnout is the worst since 1922, when voting was optional and just 59 per cent of eligible people cast a lower house vote.”

        It’s a political hot potato. As you say, it’s those doing it toughest that are least inclined to vote. Fining those that struggle to keep food up to mouths is popularity suicide. If zero punitive measures against non voters, there’s no point introducing the fresh law.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.5.1.1

          Yes it does.

          9% compared to more than 50%.

          Or even in general elections where we’re seeing less than 80% turnout.

          You also seem to have missed this line in the bit you quoted:

          The turnout is the worst since 1922, when voting was optional and just 59 per cent of eligible people cast a lower house vote.

          Seems that Australians are actually quite happy with compulsory voting.

          Fining those that struggle to keep food up to mouths is popularity suicide.

          And yet our governments keep doing it to beneficiaries.

          All it takes is good advertising before each election and the number fined will be minimal.

          • David Mac 2.5.1.1.1

            Yeah ok, I’ve gone and done some more reading on it. I’m not as partisan as I was. I lived in Oz for a long period, it is no hardship to vote. Chasing up non voters appears to be a token effort, 12 people in Darwin taken to court after the last election.

            I dread the influx in….”I voted for that chappie with the straight teeth, whatisname? I once saw him in a Crusaders jersey” vox pops.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.5.1.1.1.1

              Chasing up non voters appears to be a token effort, 12 people in Darwin taken to court after the last election.

              I suspect that it actually isn’t. Most would be given a warning and to vote next time or else. Many would be given the voting slip and told here and now or else.

              You probably just don’t hear about it which is unfortunate.

              • mikes

                If you’re not on the electoral roll how do they know who to chase up?

                But also, in order to enrol you have to sign a form. No person can legally be forced to sign any form they don’t wish to sign.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  If you’re not on the electoral roll how do they know who to chase up?

                  Just because you’re not on the electoral roll doesn’t mean that you can’t be traced. Got a bank account? Pay your taxes? Drive a car?

                  Yeah, I’m one of the few people who have no difficulty with the government doing data matching to catch criminals. Especially when those criminals are fucking over our democracy.

                  But also, in order to enrol you have to sign a form. No person can legally be forced to sign any form they don’t wish to sign.

                  It is a legal requirement to be enrolled. You must sign that form whether you like it or not.

    • Incognito 2.6

      According to Pete George, this does not constitute a crisis for our democracy.

      Bryce Edwards sees it differently.

      How exactly does Bryce Edwards see it differently, Ed? His piece is actually very noncommittal and empty of firm opinion on the matter at hand.

      I think your comment has put a few here on the wrong foot …

      You could have made the argument as to why you think the numbers reflect badly on the current state of our representative democracy but you didn’t. Why not?

  3. Sanctuary 4

    I am struggling to work out what Andrew Little was thinking in putting about his agenda to dump the three strikes legislation without first getting his political ducks in a row. Is he a political idiot?

    • Robert Guyton 4.1

      Little floats idea, gives Winston the opportunity to make his mark, both postpone the issue for a while and a satisfactory result flies through the House; everybody wins. Meanwhile, the Right enjoy a temporary lift, to no eventual gain. The Coalition Government works, and is seen to be working, as it should.

      • Ruby 4.1.1

        Spin Spin Spin RG, just like a Council does when it imposes 8% rates increases. Your man was fed to the dogs, not unexpected.

        • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1

          8.3 and in any case, is your “dogs” reference to the poor autistic man, savaged yesterday by rottweilers near Winton? That’s harsh for this time of the morning, Ruby. For any time really.

      • Sanctuary 4.1.2

        That seems an excessively generous interpretation to me.

        Occam’s says more like Little, who was a politically inept leader, simple fucked up the politics.

        I agree the politics are nowhere near as bad as our aggressively authoritarian political media seem to think, but the Likes of Audrey Young seem very under employed most of the time. Not a lot of substance happens in our politics, so they are reduced to making mountains out of molehills and reporting two flies climbing a wall with breathless urgency.

        I just wonder why they don’t occupy their copious spare time writing in depth backgrounders.

        • Robert Guyton 4.1.2.1

          “politically inept leader”, even if true, doesn’t translate to inept politician. I suggest that in fact, Little is a good and efficient politician, especially when out of the “leader” spotlight. In this instance we can only speculate, but my view is that he’s not so “inept” as to be unaware of what Winston’s position would invariably have been, and in fact played the game to the satisfaction of all-but-you (and some other posters 🙂

          • Gosman 4.1.2.1.1

            Except his actions are generating headlines like this:

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/12/new-zealand-coalition-under-strain-as-jacinda-ardern-prepares-for-maternity-leave

            Now this is clearly overblown but Politics is as much about perception than reality and if the perception is a Government that is unstable soon enough it will be.

            • Robert Guyton 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Headlines, schmedlines – they’re froth, Gosman, eye-catching dross, the don’t mean anything; that you’re enchanted by them is… a shame. Nevermind, there are others who can see past the headlines .
              Your believing that illusions are real is … cute. Serious political commenters though, don’t fall for illusions. The Government won’t become “unstable” simply because National declares that to be the case; your confidence in that sort of fickleness marks you as … fickle.

              • Gosman

                Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) serious political commentators don’t generally dictate the popularity of political parties. If the perception gains traction that a governing coalition is unstable then people will think is is likely to fall and stop supporting it. Yes this is unfair to a degree but it is political reality.

                • McFlock

                  So?

                  Three years of parties disagreeing in public (but respectfully) without the government being brought down will show those headlines as stupid.

                  The media need crises to sell copy. I can understand why the populace might not be used to a government of adults, but they’ll learn what should be the norm rater than the exception.

      • Gosman 4.1.3

        I was thinking about that possibility except it has had a negative impact on the Government generally. It looks like the political management skills of Little and by extension the PM are flawed. Just listen to the attack by Guyon Espiner on Morning report this morning.

        • Robert Guyton 4.1.3.1

          Guyon’s attack was, by accounts I’ve read, a failed one. Little would have been attacked even more vigorously, had his proposal gone ahead un-modified, as you know – Farrar et al would have been shrieking heedlessly; as it is, they’re crowing prematurely. What the media does is of little consequence, pun intended, and a smart operator will play them. Little’s a clever guy and Winston’s not too shabby either.

          • Baba Yaga 4.1.3.1.1

            Little clever? Nah, he’s either stupid or arrogant. Clearly he didn’t have NZF on board with the three strikes policy, and Peters has rescued his plummeting polling at the expense of the hapless Mr Little.

            • Robert Guyton 4.1.3.1.1.1

              Yours is a simplistic world view, Baba Yaga. Sophisticated ideas must make you feel dizzy, yes?

              • babayaga

                The proposed repeal of the 3 strikes law was not sophisticated. It was stupid.

                • Robert Guyton

                  No it wasn’t; you’re like a cuckoo clock, babayaga; same phrase, over and over cuckoo, cuckoo!

                  • Tamati Tautuhi

                    Is Baby Gaga trolling again today or is he being sensible today, Gossie and Mullet Head are going stupid again ?

          • Gosman 4.1.3.1.2

            Little should never had floated this idea as essentially a done deal. He could have made out that he was very keen to review the law including and then allowed Winston credit for nixing it.

    • ScottGN 4.2

      The whole thing has been a shambles.
      Luckily Winston’s going after MSD and Bennett et al plus the shenanigans in Singapore will quickly push it off the news cycle (for now).
      But the ongoing government messiness and poor comms etc can only be explained away by Ardern for so long before it starts to become a major liability.

      • Robert Guyton 4.2.1

        “the ongoing government messiness” is a message constructed and broadcast by the Right. There’s a grain of truth in it, as there would be for any and every “new” coalition Government, but the blue magnifying glass is being held over that small issue as part of National’s programme of denigrating the Government.

        • ScottGN 4.2.1.1

          I admire your rather generous assessment of the situation Robert and I’d like to be able to agree with you but I can’t.
          Three Strikes and law and order issues generally are just too sensitive electorally to be allowed to play out like this has. Apparently there was almost outright panic in Little’s office a week or so ago when the OIA on 3 strikes was released to media and they realised how it was going to go.

          • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.1.1

            Oh well, I can’t argue with “apparently”…
            Mind you, to say that “Three Strikes and law and order issues generally are just too sensitive electorally” shows me that any approach would bring problems, so this way, the usual attack lines are blurred and criticism blunted; in fact, the “usual suspects” are crowing with delight; that’s a pretty clever strategy if in fact, Little and Peters colluded. I’d do it the way they have; play some feints and switches and slip the soul through while confusion reigns.

            • ScottGN 4.2.1.1.1.1

              That’s the thing though, apart from the lock-‘em-up-and-throw-away-the -key crowd pleasers any sensible measures on crime and justice are always problematic to put in front of the electorate.
              It’s hard to see how giving the Opposition and their pals in the media an even bigger stick with which to beat the government on this is going to blur attack lines and blunt criticism?

              • Robert Guyton

                Hard to see? Not for me 🙂
                Will the Government get a progressive package of law & order reforms through in the near future? Yes, I believe they will. Will there be less noise around it, due to the “moderating” effect of Winston’s recent action? Yes, I believe there will. Clever play? Yes, I still believe so. I don’t take much note of the wailing and gnashing of Righty teeth around this issue.

                • ScottGN

                  Well I hope you’re right Robert. Otherwise the future is a correctional facility on every bloody street corner.

                  • Robert Guyton

                    I hope I am also, ScottGN. I think Andrew Little’s bright and will serve us well.

        • Bearded Git 4.2.1.2

          What is missing throughout this debate, especially in the MSM, is the fact the 3 Strikes is a stupid politically motivated law, a blunt instrument that doesn’t work.

          The MSM, if it was being even-handed, should be making the point that Labour and the Greens are right to try to get it repealed rather than treating this as an issue they hope will destroy the coalition.

          Well done Andrew Little for sticking to his guns on Morning Report this morning.

          • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.2.1

            An even-handed MSM would do itself out of a job, consequently, it always tips the table one way or the other, to maintain tension. We readers love tension; makes us feel alive!

            • Brigid 4.2.1.2.1.1

              I guess we have to accept the msm controls the government and the electorate.
              What are we going to do about?

          • Pat 4.2.1.2.2

            Recent history would indicate our MSM are incapable of/disinterested in exploring the effects of policy as opposed to ‘political drama’…..and yet ‘we’ persist in our support.

            Their version of ‘reality TV’?

        • babayaga 4.2.1.3

          ““the ongoing government messiness” is a message constructed and broadcast by the Right.”

          No, the messiness is surely and simply the result of inexperience combined with incompetence mixed with hubris. From the coalition agreement that gifted a billion dollars to a NZF slush fund, to the election of the Speaker (Labour’s screw up and then cover up), to the disgraceful decision making around oil and gas exploration, through to the incompetence of MIA Ministers such as Curran, Jackson, Davis, Twyford et al, this is a shambolic government mislead by a PM whose previous claim to fame had been working in a fish and chip shop. You were warned.

          • Robert Guyton 4.2.1.3.1

            No, the messiness is natural and unavoidable. It’s the reporting that’s unnatural; the endless whine that you are part of, babayaga, that’s the twitter. Plus, You Have Been Warned!!!

    • Stephen Doyle 4.3

      Bomber’s on the money here.
      “By publicly dumping a law that was only rhetoric and theatre in the first place (it’s only impacted 20 prisoners) Labour…

      gives NZ First oxygen at a time when Labour desperately requires their coalition partners to survive
      blunts National’s law and order attack which they will be playing all year with new tough on crime members bills.
      Allows the perception to the petty consumers of bitterness that Labour have had to back down on prison reform when the actual process will continue. Liberal twitter and NGOs on twitter will lambast Little and scream at the injustice which will convince the petty consumers of bitterness in muddle Nu Zilind that Labour must have changed their position to outrage the Twitterratti in such a way.
      Little loses the battle so he can win the war.”

      • Puckish Rogue 4.3.1

        If thats true its a bit short sighted because from now until the next election National can point to Labour being soft on crime so a vote for NZFirst is a vote for being soft on crime whereas a vote for National is a vote for three strikes

    • Puckish Rogue 4.4

      I’m sure he’s like most politicians, a decent, well meaning, reasonably intelligent person.

      However your question: “Is he a political idiot?” is an easy question to answer. He’s failed twice to win an electorate seat and was driving Labour to oblivion before he did the smartest thing he’s ever likely to do, politically, and resign so yes, politically speaking, he is an idiot

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6wBcwj59F4

      However he is rocking a decent beard so thats something in his favour

      • alwyn 4.4.1

        You call that a beard?
        It is just like Mallard’s.
        All it is is that the hair from the top of his head has slipped down his face.
        The only halfway decent beard any recent MP has had is the one Gareth Hughes showed off.
        That added about 10 years to his age and made him look old enough to vote.
        Even then he couldn’t compare to some of the early PMs like Seddon, Vogel, Stafford or Weld.

          • alwyn 4.4.1.1.1

            I am impressed. You could have been PM, or was it Premier, in 1860’s New Zealand.

            • Robert Guyton 4.4.1.1.1.1

              Best I can manage is councillor, Southland Regional Council, 2010 – 2018. I wonder if I’m on my own in being a bearded councillor in NZ? I certainly don’t meet many others.

          • Puckish Rogue 4.4.1.1.2

            That’s a beard that commands respect!

            • Robert Guyton 4.4.1.1.2.1

              I thank you, but respectfully suggest you talk with my wife who holds a slightly different view 🙂

              • Puckish Rogue

                Secretly all women like men with beards and I read it in Oblivious Male Monthly so it must be true

                • Robert Guyton

                  They do, yes; well, mostly. I was told by my wife’s maiden aunt, way back, that she could “never make love to a man with a beard”. I guessed she meant something more arcane than it seemed by that, but still, I was taken aback. Didn’t stop me though!

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    You made love to your wife’s maiden aunt? That’s a pretty ballsy move I gotta say. 🙂

                    • Robert Guyton

                      “Didn’t stop me though”
                      How could I let that slip through???
                      I’m a “share the love” kinda guy. Truth to tell, Maiden Aunt’s comments didn’t deter me from wooing her niece (much more seemly, aye, though not quite the story it was shaping up to be 🙂

  4. Tamati Tautuhi 5

    Kym Koloni NZF stood as an Independent Candidate and got 95 votes, not looking good for NZF down the track ?

    • Robert Guyton 5.1

      Not looking good for Kym.

      • Tamati Tautuhi 5.1.1

        NZF might have to start looking for a new candidate for Northcote if they are going to contest the seat in the 2020 Election ?

  5. Ffloyd 6

    Crikey! Is Guyon looking for a bonus? His interview smacks of desperation. Fortunately Jacinda was able to make him sound just that. DESPARATE. She treated him like the bad mannered child that he is and he achieved absolutely nothing with his hectoring,bullying attitude. Maybe he should try a measured professional approach and he might get taken seriously. An excellent, sensible calm and clear attitude from Jacinda with her replies was wonderful to hear. At least one adult in the conversation! Guyon is past his used by date.

  6. Ad 7

    If President Trump gets a good poll bump from the results of this North Korean summit he will be sending a strong signal to Romney and the traditional conservative Republican wing that there is only one Republican nomination for the next Presidential contest – and it’s him.

    If the Dems don’t get their house sorted in pretty quick order instead of folding and undercutting each other like they did in the banking reforms, then they will be very hard pressed to beat Trump.

    The rest might be a bit too far into the future, but Trump’s massive strength of perpetual chaos, drama, and through that total name-domination in the media is sustaining a very strong base to build from.

  7. Ffloyd 8

    Yahoo! Go Andrew Little. Guyon needs to give up. He’s looking like an amateur. Three strikes AND OUT! He should stick to reporting on weather.

    • Bearded Git 8.1

      @ffloyd….agreed. I loved both Little and Jacinda taking it to Espiner this morning on Morning Report-well worth a listen to anyone who hasn’t heard it.

      Both showed themselves to be smart and on top of the issue. I’m still reveling in this government after 9 years of hell.

    • Gosman 8.2

      Why? What was the issue with the way he approached the topic this morning?

  8. Tamati Tautuhi 9

    Our future trade focus should be Asia and we should be part of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, hanging off the USA’s coat tails is not going to do us any good in the future, the future trade growth region is Asia.

    Forget about the USA let them do their own thing.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1

      Our future trade focus should be on minimising trade. That’s hard though and does require developing our economy and our society.

      • Stuart Munro 9.1.1

        It’s better to trade with countries that make different stuff. Korea makes real steel and computers, and does not compete with our ag goods. The US, with its weird corn subsidies and mad cow disease doesn’t want our stuff.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

          Except that that’s a load of bollocks.

          Dubious Assumptions on Comparative Advantage
          Loss from Trade

          Korea makes real steel and computers, and does not compete with our ag goods.

          We make steel. Around 1.5 million tonnes of it per year. We export around 1 million tonnes of it. And that doesn’t even take into account all the raw iron sand that we export.

          The problem with that scenario is that we will, quite rapidly, run out of iron deposits.

          Our focus on farming is depleting our soils as well poisoning our waterways. So, that’s not sustainable either.

          Electronics tend to made out of silicon and doping with semi-conductors. We have significant deposits of both of those as well. So, we could easily make our own electronics from our own resources. Just need to develop those deposits and build the factories. Do that and buying our own would be cheaper than importing due to distance and transport costs.

          The US, with its weird corn subsidies and mad cow disease doesn’t want our stuff.

          Our main agricultural export ATM seems to be dairy. The US is massively over-producing dairy to the point where their farmers are losing money on sale of it. In other words, even if we had an FTA with the US, we wouldn’t be able to export there simply because they can provide it themselves cheaper. And once they get that over-production sorted it’ll still be cheaper to buy US produced milk in the US than to buy NZ milk in the US.

          An export led economy is doomed due to the very real physical limitations of available resources.

          An economy that uses it’s own resources and recycles them is actually sustainable due to the resources always being available.

          In other words, reality makes trade unsustainable.

  9. Ffloyd 10

    God. Who gave Armstrong the kiss of life. ANOTHER opinion piece on his intimate knowledge of Jacindas state of mind, this time on Andrew Littles 3strike postponement. Definitely on a Labour sabotage mission.

    • Hongi Ika 10.1

      Is Armstrong working as a psychologist now, just wait till after the baby is born and the post natal depresssion kicks in, Guyon, Richardson, Garner and Armstrong will have a fieldday ?

    • Bearded Git 10.2

      Armstrong is a devious National Party shill (as opposed to a journalist).

      He lost all credibility as a commentator when he demanded Cunliffe’s resignation over a meaningless 10 year old letter. He later admitted he was wrong to do this, but of course he knew that at the time.

  10. Tamati Tautuhi 11

    Has the old fossil Armstrong crawled out of his grave ?

    • Robert Guyton 11.1

      Fossils can crawl?
      Yikes!
      There’s some HUGE fossils out there.
      And some of them in graves, I read!

  11. ianmac 12

    Justice! Fair play! Good for Nicky and for future police action. Though it still doesn’t explain why the police were so active for Slater.

    “Investigative journalist Nicky Hager has accepted a police apology and payment of “substantial damages” following the unlawful search of his home during the investigation into the hacking that led to the Dirty Politics book.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068928

  12. Tamati Tautuhi 13

    Nicky Hagar getting a big pay out from the NZ Police +100%

    Some very strange behaviour by the NZ Police under the previous National Government ?

  13. Ffloyd 14

    Just listening to K Ryan talking to someone? regarding the meeting between dumb and dumber. He says it is just a publicity exercise and won’t achieve anything. Does this mean it will be all about ‘summit and nowt?

  14. Hongi Ika 15

    Nah its all about someone and newit ?

  15. Puckish Rogue 16

    So about time we heard something about this:

    https://www.labour.org.nz/maria_berryman_review

    “Ms Berryman is commencing immediately with the initial focus of her investigation on the Young Labour camp in February. The review is expected to take between two and three months,” said Nigel Haworth, Labour Party President.

    • alwyn 16.1

      Why should expect to hear anything? t has nothing to do with you. It was a purely internal matter for the Labour Party.
      However I will tell you the gist of the enquiry.

      Nothing happened.
      The stories about it were all fabrications by lying members of neo-Nazi organisations like the National Party.
      There were no members of the Party at the affair.
      The people who were there all went to bed early and no one saw or heard anything.
      The only problems were caused by fifth columnists from the National Party and other Fascist organisations.
      But nothing happened.
      Nothing further will be said.
      It is time to move on.
      But nothing happened.

      There. I think you would agree that is a pretty fair summary of the matter.

      • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1

        Being that the media seem to have forgotten about it as well its hard to see how the left think theres a bias against them

        Also: Pony Tail

  16. saveNZ 17

    Orangutan fights off a bulldozer to protect its home

  17. Gosman 18

    Once again a darling of many a hard core lefty has turned in to an authoritarian douchebag and is messing his country up.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/11/nicaragua-university-protest-daniel-ortega-occupation

  18. Hongi Ika 19

    Hopefully the IRD will do an audit on John Key’s affairs and determine whether he paid tax on the NZRail shares which he failed to disclose to the NZ Public, as he may have bought those shares with the intention of selling them (ie speculation) as he was definitely not a long term investor in NZRail, similar to one of the other major shareholders Fay Richwhite ?

    • Gosman 19.1

      You do come up with interesting conspiracy theories there. Interesting or wacky. Take your pick.

      • saveNZ 19.1.1

        I’d like to think that those in power should have automatic audits to make sure they are not profiting from their power. In particular due to the rise of the super rich to being in politics, aka financial trader makes PM aka KEY, the property developer/reality TV star make President aka Trump, the lawyer who makes his own laws aka Rodrigo Duterte…

  19. Draco T Bastard 20

    What if we killed the job interview?

    But the trouble is that interviews aren’t as useful as employers think. Indeed, organizations can still make great (and arguably better) hiring decisions without them. What would happen if we all agreed to scrap job interviews tomorrow, and focused instead on other indicators of career potential? Unthinkable as it may sound, there are at least three important data points that suggest replacing interviews with other, more predictive measures is the way to go.

    Most of the attributes interviewers try to evaluate by gut feel–a candidate’s competencies, skills, personality, values, “culture fit,” and so on–are more rigorously inferred from other data like resumes, simulations, tests, and past performance ratings. Interviews certainly create opportunities for candidates to make claims about these qualities, but as I argue in my latest book, there’s little reason to believe them. Indeed, there’s not much overlap between the talents people say they have and the ones they actually possess. (Plus, interviewers often use the idea of “good culture fit” to justify hiring people from their own in-groups.)

    In fact, so-called “dark side” personality traits, such as narcissism and psychopathy, are found among people with otherwise strong social skills, at least in short-term interactions, which makes them perform rather well on interviews. In that sense, interviews are just like a first date: Just because someone charms you the first time you meet them doesn’t mean you should marry them. The regrettable fact is that there are parasitic people in just about every organization–those who climb the ladder while sucking up resources and taking credit for others’ work, all at the expense of strong performers who go unrecognized and stagnate in their careers. De-emphasizing job interviews–or ditching them completely–might help alleviate this this problem.

    I’m sure that there are many managers and business owners who think that they’re great at interviews and yet are probably the most biased and make the worst mistakes because of that bias while they hire people just like them.

  20. saveNZ 21

    You have to wonder how a $6000 fine is going to deter employers after a 3.5 year breach of employing an illegal worker and not paying taxes and of course this is a person who is sponsoring in migrant workers too, for a liquor store.

    If you calculate how much is being lost in each case, 3.5 years of someone else not getting a job, the police costs to prosecute, the deportation costs and the justice system and then the guy just gets a fine of $6000 and the loss of business to other stores who employ legal workers paying taxes! Crime sure does pay in this country!

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12069066

    Weird that you can’t get somebody who needs a job locally to work at his store and how the government keeps bringing in low wage workers at the drop of a hat and the government doesn’t understand why poverty is increasing.

    Apparently over 60% of people who end up in prison are unemployed… maybe have a think about, rather than building more prisons and having 3 strikes laws and work for dole schemes – actually employ our own citizens in real jobs at 40 hours a week so that they don’t need to turn to crime!

    There is no longer an equal playing field in this country both for businesses and workers because there has become a culture of paying for for a fake job to get residency, underpaying for a job or having illegal workers paying no taxes taking jobs.

    Even the sex workers are fed up with the illegal workers coming in on student and tourist visas!

    You can’t run a country with less and less people paying taxes and ignoring the problem of fake jobs and illegal workers!

    Start with the criminal employers who are not paying taxes, probably collecting many benefits like AS and WFF and creating these Ponzi schemes buying up more small and medium businesses and perpetuating the growing problems for other legitimate businesses and workers.

    • alwyn 21.1

      If Mike Williams’ numbers are correct, and he is CEO of the Howard League, much of the real problem is that more than 50% of prisoners are functionally illiterate. That is the number he gives in this link although I have seen other estimates of it being as high as 70%.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80836726/mike-williams-and-the-howard-league-gives-prisoners-a-second-chance

      They can’t read well enough, for example, to be able to get a driver’s licence because they can’t do the written tests.
      They can’t get a job in today’s society because they can’t read.
      When I was young I used to spend the University Summer break working in Wool Stores. You could get a job like that even if you could barely read or write. Being able to pick out the right numbers on the stencil when marking the weight was pretty much all you needed to be able to do.

      Those sort of jobs simply don’t exist any more, but there are still people who can’t read well enough to do anything else. That is what is the best thing we can do to get people into jobs and out of prison.

      I’m not saying that that is the only reason why this firm doesn’t hire locals. There are always ratbags who will hire immigrants at illegally low wages. It is however indicative of why there are people who can’t get jobs and just drift from one jail sentence to another.
      My personal opinion is that the schools should make their absolute priority getting people up to a minimum level of literacy and numeracy before they worry about anything else at all. Cultural topics can wait. If you can’t read you can’t learn anything else anyway.

      • saveNZ 21.1.1

        Agree literacy in prisons is a problem aka anyone illiterate should all be doing the primary school syllabus while in prison. I’m not talking about dinky little online courses, I think there should be full on schools in prisons for the inmates with one teacher per 20 inmates for example.

        However once they get out of prison they should have an opportunity to get a job or even better not go to prison because they got a job when they left school/tertiary in the first place…

        But my link was about an illegal worker working in a liquor store, I don’t think you need high literacy for that, in fact they seem to use symbols now on tills for products and the tills do all the calculations for the cash customers. So I think that illegal workers are a bad idea, we are just getting worse and worse in NZ, encouraging poor work practises with pathetic sentences and encouraging more of the same.

        To give an example the guy who poached some Paua got 12 months in prison, his dive gear confiscated and not allowed to fish for 3 years. Someone who sent a hoax note to Fonterra got 8 years in prison. Grow a bit of cannabis and you could lose your house!

        But poor working practises from employers, if they even get caught, actually seem to have a fine below what they made by their illegal actions!

        The law should be banning employers caught hiring illegal workers from owning/managing a business for 3 years, let alone allow them to bring more people in as well as a fine of $100,000. They should also have IRD doing full audits to see if any suspicious payments are being made (aka bribes for jobs) and check if they are compliant in other tax matters.

        The point is, people need to be doing something if they are unemployed and getting $150 p/w on the dole aint a good prospect and even worse ‘work for the dole at $150’, and a $600 p/w job in a liquor store, although not great, is better than nothing!

        So if we are getting employers owning multiple businesses who have people paying for the job, working illegally or getting $2p/h (and there are many cases occurring of that), then it’s cutting someone else’s prospects down to get that job or someone else operating a business that operates within NZ law.

        • alwyn 21.1.1.1

          I’m sorry to have derailed your comments with my pet hobby horse.
          I got distracted by the comment about prisoners having been unemployed.

          Having people who are literate isn’t going to help very much with employers like the one in the case you quote of course. They employ people who will work for very little because otherwise they get deported.

          The only real way to deal with such employers is to belt them with truly massive fines. Fines so high that it simply isn’t worth them offending. Then pay at least some of the money out to the people who were employed illegally or on less than the minimum wage. Treat their wealth as being like the money seized from the gangs. It is proceeds of a crime and should be forfeited.

          On a different subject I would allow the employment of people who simply cannot produce enough to justify them having to be paid the minimum wage. There used to be sheltered workshops for such people. Sure they were paid very little. It did however give them something they could do. Make their living costs up with a benefit from the state.

          • In Vino 21.1.1.1.1

            alwyn, I would put it to you that the minimum wage is now so low that it is the equivalent of a sheltered workshop wage.
            How desperate would you have to be to do hard, physically hurtful labour like picking Kiwifruit for possibly less than $15 an hour? (They jiggle it by paying by the basket, I believe.)
            Be honest.

            • alwyn 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Well, to be honest your first statement is simply wrong.
              If you compare the minimum wage to the median wage for a full time worker New Zealand has a very high ratio when compared to similar countries. In 2016, according to the OECD the ratios for a few selected countries was
              New Zealand 0.61
              Australia 0.54
              Germany 0.47
              France 0.61
              USA 0.35
              Canada 0.46
              UK 0.41
              The numbers for lots of other countries are here.
              https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=MIN2AVE
              I would fail to see how that can be described as “low”.

              It is also much greater than would have been a typical wage in a sheltered workshop. They were, until the were forced out of existence by the Clark Government something like a couple of dollars/hour.
              The workers didn’t live of that of course. They, or their families got benefits. It gave the people involved something to do each day and gave some meaning to their life.

              Would I like to do something like Kiwifruit picking? At my age and physical condition of course not. When I was younger I quite happily spent about 3 months each year labouring and enjoyed it. It is amazing how much muscle you can put on in a few months when away from the student life.

              I can’t really discuss the topic with you unless you see that your beliefs about minimum wages in this country are simply wrong, can I?

      • Tamati Tautuhi 21.1.2

        How can 50% of prisoners be illiterate surely they went to school until they were 15 years old, I thought we had a good education system or have we had teachers just f’ing around ? Sounds like B/S to me ?

        • saveNZ 21.1.2.1

          @Tamati Tautuhi, sadly I think it is true, I have heard similar, sadly the result of Rogernomics and our ‘new’ educational systems like Tomorrow’s Schools where schools are run more like businesses. Personally I’d like to see our school principals have a more education focus, nowadays they are more like administration managers working our asset depreciation and infrastructure maintenance budgets… because in the old days the ministry took care of all that but now it’s up to the individual schools the burden often falling on principals… which has encouraged a certain type of principal more on the economic side than the educational side..

          Of course in the business world, you have a CEO, CIO, CFO and CTO… but school principals are expected to do all that in one role, plus be the educational leaders..and of course the health and safety side.

          Quite frankly it’s lucky we even get the results we do get with the weird ideas that have come about. The casualties are the kids who are failing 30% and the syllabus not getting every kid through.

          • saveNZ 21.1.2.1.1

            It’s also not just for people who are going the criminal route that these jobs are useful for, I know people with intellectual disabilities who are all working in places like Supermarkets, or people who work in hospitality because they have other issues. The people I know are good workers who have been working for nearly a decade in that type of job. But they are being replaced and forced out of the work force by a growing issue of imported low wage workers, who as well as taking out jobs need more hospitals/schools/roads/houses.

            So not only are people at the bottom facing job pressure, they also now have more competition for getting a house to rent and the rest of the country are subsidising these employers who are increasing at an alarming pace around the country. It used to just be Auckland, no more it’s spreading everywhere.

            Likewise the quality of tourist experience. Stayed at a formally upmarket hotel taken over by an overseas firm who are buying up hotels around the country. If hardly any staff members, stinky minibar, dirty bathroom, un maintained rooms with bits falling off door, and rat bait packages under the bed in a resort that used to be luxury stay, sound like a good tourist experience, welcome to the ‘new’ New Zealand experience…

        • alwyn 21.1.2.2

          @Tamati. I can’t confirm the numbers but I am certainly willing to believe Mike’s comments. Did you read the article at that link?

          I once tutored someone in one of our Prisons. That was about 40 years ago. He was, I think, in for selling drugs and he was doing part-time University courses at Massey. Definitely an odd one out. He said that many inmates couldn’t read and he would read their letters to them.

          There have always been people like that. It isn’t a new thing or something that Tomorrow’s Schools caused. It just didn’t matter so much when there were lots of manual labour jobs available. When I was at High School we had a lot (around 20%) who arrived at the school for the third form at age 13 who really could not read or write. There were a couple of teachers who spent nearly all their time teaching them to read. You see without that skill they couldn’t learn anything else. Once they had, if ever, achieved that skill they could learn other things.
          That was about 60 years ago. At least, as I suggested, in those days you could find work with very low skills. Now you can’t. In fact you may not even be able to get to work if you can’t drive.

          If you don’t get the hang of reading early on at school I have been told you will withdraw from learning. You know you aren’t as good as other kids but you don’t want to admit it or to show up as being behind. So you say nothing. Then you stop attending school and things just never improve.

          And no, it isn’t just “teachers f”ing off” as you put it. Kids missing school because they can’t keep up can’t be helped if they aren’t there.
          On the other hand I think there are far too many things in the curriculum that could be ignored as long as this skill isn’t there. It might be a good thing to learn about all sorts of topics but they should be left until the three R’s are at some minimal level.

      • In Vino 21.1.3

        Good comment, alwyn (just for a change..)
        Some time ago during my time as a teacher of languages I remember a very interesting lecture/article by some linguistic guru who claimed by some research or stats or who-knows-what that even in the best utopian country with the finest possible education system, a minimum of 8% (it could have been 1 in 8) in any population will inevitably remain functionally illiterate.
        It is just the way humans are born.
        So while some prisoners may be capable of becoming literate, it may well be that many will remain the way they are despite our efforts.
        To my mind we need to reinstitute well-paid jobs for such people.
        My surprising choice for an example of such nature is – rubbish collection!
        In the good old days: a gang of 5 or so people with one truck. One drives; one or two stand up on rear, catch the bins lifted or thrown upwards to them, empty the bin into the truck, then toss the empty bin back down to the several runners, who place it back on the footpath upside-down. (A popular member of the old Waikato Rugby team used to do that job because it helped him keep fit for rugby.)
        A radio would be blaring pop music on the back of the truck, the guys would be calling out to one another (including to driver) to maintain coordinated effort.
        My toddler daughter would hear the parade coming, rush to the front window: the guys on the back of the truck used to look out for this, and would wave and grin, causing little toddler to wave back energetically. They seemed to love waving to little kids. They were cheerful enough to smile!
        Lamentably, there is no such thing any more. Automated trucks, max of two people; no music; one might get fit by stepping on and off running board to toss bags (PLASTIC!!) of rubbish into the rear… The worst I saw was in Auckland where one sad-looking guy drove the truck that had mechanised arms to pick up wheely-bins and replace them (emptied out) back on the footpath. He looked bloody miserable. Probably paid far less than those earlier guys.
        This disaster must apply to many other jobs as well. Fewer people less happy, being paid less money. I would not have minded working with those guys back when I was young. I would hate to work in modern rubbish collection.
        This is how the Market leads us to bad places: mechanisation that is not well-guided is the enemy of human society. (The Luddites were right!)
        The economy makes a good servant to society, but a very poor master.
        And we have RWNJs still stupid enough to want the economy and the market to rule….

        • alwyn 21.1.3.1

          “A popular member of the old Waikato Rugby team used to do that job because it helped him keep fit for rugby”
          He wasn’t the only one. Jerry Collins did the same thing in Porirua, even when he was a very well paid All Black. In the off season I believe but still.
          https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/69363078/no-passengers-jerry-collins-earned-his-stripes-as-a-wellington-garbo

          • save NZ 21.1.3.1.1

            So weird though that although those jobs are apparently going, NZ seems to have so many ‘unskilled’ jobs on it’s ‘skilled’ migrant list… our productivity has been stagnant for years and our migrants are even lower qualified and less skilled than 5 years ago and so many lobby groups jumping up and down about how there are so many shortages of labour because apparently Kiwis are not suitable anymore. What a strategy for the future, sarc.

            Posted an article a few days ago where an offshore hotel being built wanted 100’s of workers bought into Auckland on $20 p/h as decorators.

            $20 p/h was the rate for a painter/decorater about 28 years ago!!! There are plenty of painter/decorators in Northland, but do you really think it is worth someone’s while to come to Auckland for a pay rate that comes from circa 1990 and is impossible to live on once you have a family ????

            How the fuck can local construction survive when you are getting this under cutting?

          • In Vino 21.1.3.1.2

            Careful, dear alwyn – you have almost agreed with me.

            What is the way ahead? They say that further automation is going to cut even more jobs. Would a sensible society not be concerned to see that its members were usefully and reasonably happily occupied, and use automation only as required to meet those needs, and improve the economy without social damage??
            Instead we have a greedy group who use automation to maximise their profits, without caring that they create one hell-hole of a society.
            A recipe for massive disaster.

            Your thoughts? (As The Chairman was so fond of demanding..)

  21. Tamati Tautuhi 23

    Taika Waititi’s new film about to be released Jojo Rabbit where he is acting as Adolph Hitler, it should be entertaining.

  22. Alan 24

    Thorough verbal referencing conducted after interviewing is the key to making good hiring decisions, and psychometric testing can help too

  23. Jack Ramaka 25

    Simon No Bridges says Winston should concentrate on governing the country rather than taking out vendettas against Senior Government Officials and MP’s.

    What the clown needs to realize is it is a separate issue to NZF, the Coalition or the governing of the country. These people deliberately released Winston’s personal information into the public arena, to smear him and influence the outcome of the 2017 General Election. Dirty Politics Paper 102

    If people are not brought to account by the judicial system these things will keep happening.

    We had blatant fraud and corruption with the collapse of the BNZ which was covered up by the NZ Government and the NZ Judiciary in the Winebox Enquiry. Hence we have systemic failures of companies here in NZ ever since then, as “white collar crime” is considered a legitimate business activity here in NZ. However stealing pinky bars from the local petrol station will get you locked up for a good length of time.

    It sends a message to the crooks “if you are going to commit fraud here in NZ do it for a reasonable sum of money ? ” Doug Graham would be a classic case and example.

    • Gabby 25.1

      I’m sure Slick Britches will have been careful to leave no traces of any advice to Pullya.

  24. Observer Tokoroa 26

    To Whom it May Concern

    The Standard used to be, Worthwhile. But now that it is infested with Trolls it is so dull and childlike. It iooks and acts like a toddler with a dirty bottom.

    Gosman, James, baba yaga. Graffiti Inc.

    • Robert Guyton 26.1

      Observer; The Standard is still worthwhile and then some. Those folk you “name” are our “creative tension providers” – without them, we are soft. Harden up, enjoy the creative stress!

      • Tamati Tautuhi 26.1.1

        You just have to scroll, or scribe past them, throw them the odd lure or live bait when you want a bit of entertainment, as it doesn’t take them long to come up the berley trail, just don’t feed them too much as they can chew up a lot of precious time and bait.

  25. Tamati Tautuhi 27

    12/06/16 The Standard Pick Six Troll Competition

    Report: We had good early activity by two trolls Gossie was up early and I am not sure who the other one was, today we have had good troll activity throughout the day, and it is highly likely we will get the Pick 6 today b4 12.00am, yesterday we didn’t get the last leg b4 12.00am but we got 5 legs in. So far today we have had activity from, Gossie, Mullet Head, James, Puckish Rogue & Baby Gaga. I will post the results later once we have analysed all the days trolling activity across T/S.

    As I have suggested they should set up there own Blog Site and go all out, I guess they are over here undercover from Kiwi Blog & Whale Oil websites to keep themselves entertained ?

  26. Tamati Tautuhi 28

    Has Baby Gaga and James both been trolling today or just James ?

    • In Vino 28.1

      And how do we classify contributors? Who could decide whether a certain genuinely concerned Leftie (who often makes comments that look so) is in fact not what he seems?

  27. Robert Guyton 29

    No James. A James-free day. James has not darkened our door. James has been absent (for years 🙂

  28. ianmac 30

    Watched Question Time today. Bridges all geared up to smash Andrew Little but crashed out having to face Winston “On behalf Of the PM.”
    Winston was at his best. Succinct. Amusing. And made Simon look like a very very silly little boy. Winston will be great as Acting PM.

    Q1 https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=200714

    PS Has Simon sorted out his hair stylist?

  29. AsleepWhileWalking 31

    You know the country is in trouble when a dentist launches a petition to stop DIY dentistry

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018648930/petition-launched-as-diy-dentistry-grows

  30. Robert Guyton 32

    Winston, cat; what’s his name, (Opposition leader) mouse. Bennett took a slamming from Mallard. All’s well in the world.

  31. Robert Guyton 33

    Winston is having the.time.of.his.life.
    Poor National. Stuffed!

  32. Eco Maori 34

    Apologize to the ambulance service people it’s not like Eco Maori rings a ambulance every day. I was informed that the service is busy and the time was 40 min. The last time I had a ambulance rang was a hcoptter I did not wait I got my son to take me to hospital.
    Ka kite ano

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