web analytics

Open mike 12/06/2025

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 12th, 2025 - 52 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

52 comments on “Open mike 12/06/2025 ”

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    12 June 2025 at 7:09 am

    Apparently the left must use force: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2025/06/12/federated-farmers-poll-shows-a-cultural-sectarianism-the-left-cant-negotiate-with-climate-change-reform-must-be-forced-upon-farming-interests/

    Whilst Bomber's picture of a typical farmer is quite cool & the tinfoil hat is suitably stylish, I'm not so sure of the merit of his advocacy of the use of force. Do farmers deserve it? Yeah, sure. Will it work? Well, how often do you see leftists being forceful in public? Thought so. That means a political culture shift.

    The truth is the Left need to be brutal on one hand and supportive with the other.

    Sending a mixed message is indeed normal politics for the left and right, so he ain't wrong in principle. Yet one can readily imagine the reaction from Labour women: "Eeek!!!" And from Labour men: "Multi-tasking is a clever idea, but too hard."

    Bomber gets how to talk to farmers no problem:

    A cow shits the same as 14 humans, we have 10 million cows, that’s the equivalent of 140 million humans pissing and shitting into our rivers.

    Then he gets hit by the warp factor:

    we need to work with Framers to ensure our local food security

    Too lateral-thinking for most punters, this. Framing is vital, no question, but capitalizing framers exalts them to undeserved status. Farmers will point out that they don't like pointy-headed intellectuals, who will obviously want to compete with their pointy tinfoil hats, and it's quite an irritating scenario to have to worry about…

    Reply
    • lprent 2.1
      12 June 2025 at 7:45 am

      More bomber than the left. I know he doesn’t speak for me.

      I worked in a factory from 15-17 mostly night or evening shift, a town supply farm for 6 months. Kinloch station for 6 months. Then went in the army for 3 months training. Then went to university. Oh also worked on my families hobby farm from age 15 pretty much until I was about 21 – it was their version of having a batch. I suspect that Bomber was less attuned to labouring.

      However the fact remains that dairy in particular are simply not going to change on their own. If they improve the methane produced per litre of milk, then they will just increase the level of production.

      Not to mention that over the last 30 years there have been no viable methane reducers for our dairy industry. They need a strong price signal in a more rapid ETS (not worth changing). To make it hard for National to change….

      Umm.. First tax the ETS out of milk gate payments before it is paid to the dairy. So just make it a price per kg of milk solids. Then rebate that with whatever income or company tax the milkers pay. The more tax that they pay, the more that they will get back.

      That will get the milkers extremely interested in rapidly improving their productivity techniques rather than the desolately slow research done to date. Sure we’ll lose some low profit farmers, but that is going to be good for the industry…

      I’d suggest that Labour also does something moderately smart with the proceeds. They use it to fund increases in National superannuation while reducing the bottom tax rate. Or use it to fund increases in local body infrastructure spending without raising rates. Don’t really care, just so long as it is really hard to remove the ETS from farming without getting a very large relatively conservative urban and semi-urban voting block pissed off.

      But it should all be done in the first couple of months of taking government, and done under urgency and without select committees – after al this has all be thrashed out multiple times over the last 30 years.

      Between that and our increasing age demographic, it will make it hard to undo. The dairy industry and National only have themselves to blame – they have been dragging their feet on this since the late 1990s while everyone has been effectively paying their ETS levy.

      In terms of economic damage – it will probably be minimal. Dairy and most pastoral farming in NZ is not very profitable – unless you are an Australian bank. Each increase in farming efficiency has been accompanied by a decrease in real prices per tonne, and a increase in price per hectare.

      This is pretty obvious when you look at the tax takes from farming especially dairy at the IRD (ie based on profit). For a pastoral industry with an extremely high export value, the amount that farmers pay in tax is relatively tiny, especially when you compare it to other businesses or PAYE employees. This appears to be common across the whole processing and export chain.

      Especially when you compare it to horticultural farming or tech exports using the same criteria.

      Sure dairy prices are reasonably high right now. F]Give another 6-9 months and they will be back in the toilet again. That is the problem with having a commodity product. It isn’t worth the amount of capital that is invested in the land and plant.

      Because it is effectively a protected industry by National, it also has little to no incentive to seriously improve its productivity and use of capital.

      Reply
      • Phillip ure 2.1.1
        12 June 2025 at 9:20 am

        That all makes perfect sense..

        Reply
      • bwaghorn 2.1.2
        12 June 2025 at 11:24 am

        Why do we segregate dairy methane from sheep and beef methane?

        Sheep numbers have more than halved in my life time and beef cows will have fallen along with them , as a whole I'm going to take a wild stab and say total farming emmisions have reduced, and as 1000s of ha have been planted those planting should be counted as offsetting farm methane not rich Europeans emmisions.

        Reply
    • Incognito 2.2
      12 June 2025 at 10:54 am

      Dennis Frank eviscerates analyses Bomber – no popcorn needed.

      Farmers will point out that they don't like pointy-headed intellectuals, who will obviously want to compete with their pointy tinfoil hats, and it's quite an irritating scenario to have to worry about…

      The lack of self-awareness is ironic and your projection and erection of straw men is as boring as tedious – a worthy dismissing a worthy dismissing worthies dismissing worthies adding more irrelevant dismay and disrespect and even the popcorn goes “yuck!”

      Reply
  3. gsays 3
    12 June 2025 at 7:21 am

    Brian Wilson, one of rock's more eccentric perfectionists has died aged 82.

    His songs are etched into the memory banks from high rotation on AM radio. It wasn't till I was a lot older that I was aware of his genius. Like a lot of those 'simple melodies' they are far from simple.

    A complicated life with a domineering, abusive father, a career with family members and mental health issues including years of haunting voices in his head from schizoaffective disorder.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/563853/brian-wilson-music-icon-and-creative-force-behind-the-beach-boys-has-died-at-82

    This is one episode of many on Beach Boys songs which looks at Heros and Villans and the collapse of the Smile album. Van Dyke Parks features heavily.

    https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-153-heroes-and-villains-by-the-beach-boys/

    Reply
    • Karolyn_IS 3.1
      12 June 2025 at 8:30 am

      In my teen years, I liked the surfing sound, the sound of the waves and outdoors. 'Good Vibrations' comes to mind. Some great harmonies and haunting sounds in some of the songs.

      Reply
    • Phillip ure 3.2
      12 June 2025 at 9:05 am

      An album of theirs that often slips under the radar is 'holland'….

      It sounds different to that classic beach boys/surf sound…

      And it is just effing excellent…

      Reply
    • Obtrectator 3.3
      12 June 2025 at 11:47 pm

      I've had Beach Boys songs going through and through my head all day since hearing about BW's passing. Great sounds and much-loved, but it'll be a relief to get to sleep …

      Reply
    • Shanreagh 3.4
      14 June 2025 at 8:04 pm

      My favourite is "God only Knows'. Actually it is only one of two (the other is 'In my Room') that I love as opposed to loving dancing and singing away to the others a few mumble years ago.

      Here is Brian Wilson singing in 2009. An old (aren't we all) guy with a pot gut but boy can he sing.

      I listened/watched a documentary of the chord progressions etc in 'God Only knows'

      My theory is that the unusual chord progressions in 'God only Knows' is why so many of us go flat when when trying to sing it. smiley

      So some music geekery from me.

      Reply
  4. thinker 4
    12 June 2025 at 7:46 am

    A bold dream gets a cut as Predator Free 2050 Ltd is disestablished https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thedetail/563851/a-bold-dream-gets-a-cut-as-predator-free-2050-ltd-is-disestablished

    Either National was dumb to instigate it or National is dumb to remove it, given the official reason is to remove duplication.

    If I were DOC the first place I'd be looking for predators is on the government benches .

    Reply
    • Ad 4.1
      12 June 2025 at 9:46 am

      There are so many initiatives ongoing now in Otago and Southland that won't stop regardless.

      But this surely has to be a huge gift to the Greens and to Labour to simply come out and say that this effort will be reinstated, with a specific agency to push it.

      No doubt this will come up in the upcoming Forest and Bird national AGM and the local Otago and Southland ones that are coming up next week.

      C'mon Greens and Labour there are just thousands and thousands of volunteers pushing and funding this along already.

      Reply
    • AB 4.2
      12 June 2025 at 11:00 am

      National instigated it in 2016 because they wanted to look like they cared about the environment without having to mention or act on climate change. While Predator Free is an excellent idea, it's a modernised version of the conservationism of 50 years ago when nobody much was talking about climate, i.e., it is local action to save biodiversity and especially to save 'glamour' or 'iconic' native wildlife species, It has appeal across the political spectrum – all you need is Hillary Barry fronting it and it's warm fuzzies all round. There's a massive cognitive dissonance at its heart – will the species you are attempting to save now survive the near-term and medium-term changes to the climate in the locations you are working on? I expect the good people at Predator Free were well aware of this and were trying to think about relocation strategies.

      So, to some extent the programme was born out of one example of National Party deception, and now it is being discontinued out of another example – the myth that government finances must be run like a household.

      Reply
      • Phillip ure 4.2.1
        12 June 2025 at 11:51 am

        We ..humans. .flesh-farmers…and flesh-eaters are the real predators/habitat-destroyers/extinction -drivers

        It takes 1,000 litres of water ..to make one litre of milk…etc..etc..

        To address these issues while ignoring those facts…is self-deluding bullshit-on-a-stick..

        How can it not be…?

        Reply
  5. Stephen D 5
    12 June 2025 at 8:45 am

    https://tinyurl.com/2y9mf5j7

    "Even the most ardent supporters of the alliance with the United States – the notional foundation of Australian/(New Zealand) security for more than 70 years – must be having some misgivings about the second coming of Donald Trump." My italics

    Not sure Winnie will read this. Too busy shmoozing the US.

    Reply
  6. Bearded Git 6
    12 June 2025 at 10:29 am

    Only 5.6% of the employed population work in farming. When retirees and people not registered to work are also taken into account they represent a very small percentage of the voting population and most of them vote National and always have/will.

    The Left should concentrate on getting votes from non-farmers. These are the people who see sky-high butter prices at New World while the farmers are rubbing their hands in glee at dairy prices.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/employment-in-agriculture-percent-of-total-employment-wb-data.html#:~:text=Employment%20in%20agriculture%20(%25%20of%20total%20employment)%20(modeled%20ILO%20estimate,compiled%20from%20officially%20recognized%20sources.

    Reply
    • Stephen D 6.1
      12 June 2025 at 10:52 am

      I asked ChatGPT for a breakdown of the retail price of a kilo of butter.

      🧈 Summary:

      • Farmers earn about $3.00 per kg of butter through milk supply.
      • Processors (like Fonterra) take around $2.50 for converting milk into butter and packaging it.
      • Distribution accounts for $1.00, covering national logistics and refrigeration.
      • Retailers (supermarkets) add $3.50 as markup and margin, which includes their own operating costs and profit.

      So, farmers and the supermarkets creaming it.

      Reply
      • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.1.1
        12 June 2025 at 11:34 am

        So, farmers and the supermarkets creaming it.

        As ever. I have recently joined up here..(look for a comrade/fighter everywhere)

        Fighting for fair grocery prices
        and genuine competition

        https://www.gag.nz/

        Reply
      • lprent 6.1.2
        12 June 2025 at 2:00 pm

        The farmers aren't creaming it. Of that $3, probably at least $2.50 is input costs to produce the milk solids.

        The distribution is for local. You have to remember that the $1.00 for local distribution is a tiny proportion of the distribution costs for NZ butter.

        We export about 480 thousand metric tons of butter, and it gets shipped mostly to the northern hemisphere with all of the transport and handling costs that imposes.

        The local market for butter is only about 20 thousand metric tons.

        //—-

        Side comments

        Fortunately for me, my only use for butter is on baked spuds, and my partner has a allergy to dairy. A small block of butter lasts about a year.

        I used to throw butter block stubs out regularly until I discovered how to bake spuds in a microwave. Weirdly enough, I often buy danish butter. This is because I buy very small blocks, and the local butter in those sizes is often priced much higher… But I see that this years block is Lewis Road.

        Cheese I buy more off. I usually go through a 500-700g in about 4 weeks. Biggest hassle is finding the smaller package sizes. The supermarket seems to like selling enormous blocks.

        Reply
    • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.2
      12 June 2025 at 11:30 am

      The Left should concentrate on getting votes from non-farmers. These are the people who see sky-high butter prices at New World while the farmers are rubbing their hands in glee at dairy prices.

      And the Left should indeed. Really need to some some Left colours nailed to masts here.

      Goes without saying NAct1, for all their terrible actions, are indeed flying theirs. Which are bad for, by far, the majority of NZ.

      Living in a small Rural area….most are, if not staunchly Nat, RW conservative. Huge support for the groundswell morons and when they organised their ute/bark off/Anti 3 Waters "parades", many right in with them……..

      Dairy irrigation/pollution sucking the life out of our local inland Rivers and water tables..because its their right..

      Also, its not just New World….its the NZ Grocery Duopoly incl Woolworths …

      Reply
    • tc 6.3
      12 June 2025 at 11:51 am

      +100 a waste of time courting the rabid rural vote.

      Have policies for sustainable farming that make sense but dont waste limited resources pandering to those who plunder the land and pollute our waterways.

      Reply
    • weka 6.4
      12 June 2025 at 8:22 pm

      we have to stay engaged with rural people if we want to make progress on climate and environment though.

      Reply
      • Bearded Git 6.4.1
        13 June 2025 at 6:18 am

        True…I'm not saying abandon or ignore them….many of the new generation of farmers acknowledge climate change needs to be addressed.

        Reply
    • Muttonbird 7.1
      12 June 2025 at 2:16 pm

      The Madleen did not make it to Gaza’s shores. Yet its crew exposed an obscenity that has repulsed western citizens, who will one day force their governments to cease their complicity – which is why, in the end, Israel will lose.

      They will, in the end, lose, because Israel is not capable of managing an exit given their insistence on settling the West Bank.

      The two state program will slowly generate increasing support, and eventually Israel will be chased out of Palestine for good.

      Reply
      • Bearded Git 7.1.1
        12 June 2025 at 2:31 pm

        agree…unintended consequences….would be great to see Netanyahu convicted of war crimes..

        Reply
  8. PsyclingLeft.Always 8
    12 June 2025 at 11:37 am

    Fight back against NAct1 : How,When and Where you can….Here is a Rail Petition.

    https://thefutureisrail.org/

    Reply
  9. Dennis Frank 9
    12 June 2025 at 12:29 pm

    Rather unseemly of RB board to be stone-walling OIA requests, so the finance minister issued a reprimand, which brought the RB board chairfeller cowering to heel: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/563912/finance-minister-nicola-willis-criticises-rbnz-over-handling-of-adrian-orr-s-resignation

    "It's my expectation that all government agencies comply with their statutory obligations and wherever possible are open and transparent with New Zealanders," she said. "Of course they need to balance that against their legal obligations when it comes to employment discussions and agreements, but on this one I think they could have pulled their socks up."

    Younger-generation readers will be mystified by the causal relation between height of socks and Reserve Bank governance, so I will assay an explanation. College kids were once routinely chastised by teachers catching them with socks not at regulation height.

    This height was deemed to have a causal relation to their subsequent professional success, so the fate of the entire economy rested on maintaining sock height. Historians could be consulted to establish how far back into neo-colonialism this went, but what's more germane is her loyalty to the ancient regime. Hipkins ought to jump onto social media with a photo of his socks at regulation height.

    Reply
    • lprent 9.1
      12 June 2025 at 2:47 pm

      Croaking Cassandra did a interesting post that I read this morning off the Feeds.
      https://croakingcassandra.com/2025/06/11/the-orr-story-well-part-of-it-anyway/

      I see that there is a later one as well
      https://croakingcassandra.com/2025/06/12/why-is-neil-quigley-still-rb-board-chair/

      Bit repetitive and self-referential, but does ask the interesting questions about the process

      Reply
      • Incognito 9.1.1
        12 June 2025 at 2:59 pm

        RBNZ Chairman Neil Quigley got aggressively defensive when questioned by a reporter:

        “I’m not interested in having you question me like you’re a lawyer.”

        https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/133702/rbnz-chairman-neil-quigley-confirms-he-withheld-actual-motivation-adrian-orr%E2%80%99s [HT to Jonathan Milne of Newsroom]

        Edit: I see that Croaking Cassandra has already covered this.

        Reply
      • Dennis Frank 9.1.2
        12 June 2025 at 3:07 pm

        Yeah, he's been chasing the story ever since the resignation – I read an earlier go at it a few weeks back. This bit from your first link is his insider/outsider take:

        It really looks to have been a toxic combination of headstrong volatile chief executive (who’d been lying to Parliament again just days prior to that critical meeting with the Minister), weak or non-existent accountability from his Board, and an utter lack of resilience or perspective which you’d only really expect to see from someone at the end of his tether. That is reinforced by that line in the final official version about how “the impasse risked damaging necessary working relationships”.

        We deserve better governance of the RB, and that's likely to be a consensus view, so the news tonight may signal some intent to provide it…

        Reply
        • Muttonbird 9.1.2.1
          12 June 2025 at 3:20 pm

          We deserve better governance of the RB.

          Quigley is literally a National Party appointment, so we might want to start there.

          Reply
        • lprent 9.1.2.2
          12 June 2025 at 3:24 pm

          Usual problem – which is what are the objectives of the RB.

          We could have the Don Brash monetary freeze which completely ignored the recession in employment from 1988 to probably about 2002 that soured a generation of kiwis with unemployment (including my current partner).

          Which is what Willis appears to be trying to reproduce now when I look at the unemployment on the under 25s.

          Or we could have an over-emphasis on employment and disaster recovery at the expense of government debt. Which is what happened with National under Muldoon (Britian and the EEC, oil prices), and to a much lesser extent with the fiscal response to the eventual delayed responses to the GFC and ChCh earthquakes. Later with the pandemic.

          The problem is that the RBNZ needs to plot a course on the sweet spot between constraining the economy between recession and unjustified exuberance – with the measure being inflation or artificial recession from capital.

          In NZ this shows up with the pyramid speculation on property because of a lack of untaxed capital gains, and making it hard for the young to start a productive economic life. It isn’t helped these days with our rapidly ageing demographics, and the refusal of conservative governments of the last 30 years to even plan for it – especially including this one.

          Reply
    • Muttonbird 9.2
      12 June 2025 at 3:04 pm

      Call me cynical but the whole this feels like a constructed and managed exit for Willis to be able to distance herself from accusations of pressuring and interference, and to be able to appear authoritative with the RBNZ board now grovelling at her feet.

      Reply
      • Incognito 9.2.1
        12 June 2025 at 3:05 pm

        My thoughts exactly.

        Reply
        • Muttonbird 9.2.1.1
          12 June 2025 at 3:17 pm

          Quigley is the one who lobbied National for the Waikato Medical School an endeavour which the shifty Steven Joyce was involved with.

          Quigley was appointed to the RBNZ board by National (2010), appointed chair by National (2016) and reappointed chair by National (2024).

          Quigley is a loyal National Party guy. He appears sufficiently weak and corrupt to do whatever Willis tells him, in my opinion.

          Reply
  10. SPC 10
    12 June 2025 at 12:49 pm

    ACT libertarian policy on assisted end-time and funding cuts in health care, old aged housing and old age care and here we are already … (and with an ageing population and the full impact of pay parity and pay equity developments yet to come)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/maxim-institute-report-highlights-gaps-in-palliative-care-and-euthanasia-safeguards/Q5J5U2WBMJDRPJL7IP5W5K3FEU/

    Reply
  11. Muttonbird 11
    12 June 2025 at 3:23 pm

    Dubai is a long way to go to for the RUNIT final. Have to wonder why they couldn't go to Australia where the owners and operators are from.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/563927/run-it-championship-relocates-from-auckland-to-dubai-after-fierce-backlash

    Perhaps they are not welcome in Australia.

    Reply

Leave a Comment