Open Mike 12/08/2018

110 comments on “Open Mike 12/08/2018 ”

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1. DH 1

   12 August 2018 at 6:32 am

   Looks like the property market has stalled, the Herald is trying to pimp it again;

   “Aucklander, 21, already owns 11 properties around New Zealand ”
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12102563

   The abridged version: You too can be rich…. if your parents can (and will) bankroll you.

   All they really achieve there is to highlight the inequality in this country IMO.
   • Barfly 1.1

     12 August 2018 at 7:37 am

     The NZ Herald purveyors of property porn since……..forever
     • DH 1.1.1

       12 August 2018 at 7:56 am

       Yeah, they must really need the advertising revenue from the real estate industry.
     • Ed 1.1.2

       12 August 2018 at 8:28 am

       Because real estate has sadly become one of the pillars of New Zealand’s FIRE economy.

       Finance
       Insurance
       and
       Real Estate

       35 years of neoliberalism……
   • dV 1.2

     12 August 2018 at 8:23 am

     And he will be in deep dodah if/when the interest rates increase by a couple of % and or the properties drop in value.
     The way the article reads 10 of the properties were bought with 100% mortgage based on increased valuations.
     • Ed 1.2.1

       12 August 2018 at 8:31 am

       Greed.
       The epitome of the Randian cult.
       • Molly 1.2.1.1

         12 August 2018 at 11:56 am

         Ed, it could also be related to fear, especially for those who think the social contract between government and the public has been broken. They don’t want to be left vulnerable to life’s unknowables, and tax, investment and housing policy has all contributed to housing being a proven investment for those with capital.

         We shouldn’t blame individuals when policy decisions are incentivising such behaviour.
         • Ed 1.2.1.1.1

           12 August 2018 at 12:15 pm

           Good point
   • Ed 1.3

     12 August 2018 at 8:26 am

     Interestingly the Herald chooses not to be precise about the amount the rich boy got off his parents.
     A key detail without which the story is utterly meaningless.
     • DH 1.3.1

       12 August 2018 at 2:24 pm

       Yeah they were certainly a bit vague on the details weren’t they.

       It’s the parents guaranteeing the loan that tells the main story. No typical 18yr old can walk in to the bank and get a mortgage like that.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.4

     12 August 2018 at 6:30 pm

     Ah, the Herald propagandising for the bludgers.
   • mpledger 1.5

     13 August 2018 at 11:41 am

     If always stalls at this time of year because houses always look nicer when the sun is shining. The prime time for selling is after Labour weekend so people who want to sell and can wait, will wait till then.
2. Ed 2

   12 August 2018 at 7:08 am

   We are seeing evidence of catastrophic climate change across the planet.
   We are seeing rampant inequality in the world.

   And yet helipads and the Haka is what the Herald decides is news.
   The media is a significant part of the media/military/industrial complex which will see life extinguished on this Earth rather than abandon capitalism.
   • Gosman 2.1

     12 August 2018 at 7:47 am

     What is rampant inequality?
     • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1.1

       12 August 2018 at 8:01 am

       See #3 below
     • Ed 2.1.2

       12 August 2018 at 8:21 am

       Pay attention Gosman
     • Adrian Thornton 2.1.3

       12 August 2018 at 8:43 am

       @Gosman
       Rampant inequality looks a lot like this…
       Statistics New Zealand, this report is from 2007, and as we all know this social obscenity has mushroomed since, especially under the government of John Key.
       “Wealth disparity persists in New Zealand, as in other societies. Disparity in wealth holdings is of significant interest in respect of its implications for health outcomes, economic and social well being, opportunities for social participation, ability to withstand life-shocks, and so on.”
       http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/people_and_communities/Families/wealth-and-disparities-in-new-zealand.aspx

       or this
       ‘10% richest Kiwis own 60% of NZ’s wealth’
       https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/307458/10-percent-richest-kiwis-own-60-percent-of-nz%27s-wealth

       or maybe this
       ‘Rich man, poor man: inequality gap grew in 2017, Oxfam report reveal’
       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100751224/rich-man-poor-man-inequality-gap-grew-in-2017-oxfam-report-reveals
       • Gosman 2.1.3.1

         12 August 2018 at 10:00 am

         Umm… That might define inequality but you haven’t explained why it is rampant? What makes the level of inequality in NZ rampant?
         • Ed 2.1.3.1.1

           12 August 2018 at 11:28 am

           Do your own research.
         • cleangreen 2.1.3.1.2

           12 August 2018 at 12:49 pm

           Pay attention Gosman

           The global economic war has begun!!!
           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znh6jwniQy4

           We are very clearly in a better position to weather the economic storm now appearing with a Labour lead Government with us than having another “sell all to the lowest bidder “John -Key-ism” capitalist carpetbagger government as they would give the whole country to China at the blink of the eye.

           Best we keep a socialist government in power at this ‘transitional time’ as the US did in the last depression under FDR.

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgwgUujn4Uk

           “Economic Collapse Is Coming! China ‘Weaponize’ Yuan For Dollar Collapse – 2018 Stock Market CRASH!”
         • McFlock 2.1.3.1.3

           12 August 2018 at 3:26 pm

           you really are a heartless scoundrel. Only a real scumbag would reflect on the level of homelessness in NZ, look at the mansions and empty houses, and decide that the pressing issue is whether the correct description of the level of inequality is “rampant”, or maybe “rife”, or simply “intolerable”.

           Some days you just really make me want to puke.
           • Gosman 2.1.3.1.3.1

             12 August 2018 at 5:27 pm

             Boo hoo. Given inequality is “rampant” it is obviously the number one priority of the current left leaning Government. What policies are they implementing that will immediately address this problem?
             • McFlock …

               12 August 2018 at 7:00 pm

               Only national promise magic wand solutions. In the real world, repairing the damage caused by people like you takes longer than you take to damage it in the first place. And so many problems are rampant, in any normal human use of the word.

               People sleep in the goddamned street in NZ. Not just a few, either (as if that would make it any better). Not only do you not care, your “boo hoo” and party-political point-scoring suggest that you don’t even think you should care about anyone else’s misery.

               Hell is a myth invented in the dim hope that unregenerate fuckwits like you would at least pretend to act like normal, caring human beings, on the off-chance that it’s real.
               • Gosman …

                 12 August 2018 at 7:32 pm

                 Fixing inequality is easy. Higher income taxes and a wealth tax. That doesn’t take much more than a single budget cycle.
                 • McFlock …

                   12 August 2018 at 7:43 pm

                   It’s a start.
                   What does the government do with the cash?
                   How do you judge “taxable income” vs “wealth”?
                   How do you close loopholes like corporate or trust beneficiaries/expenses?
                   How do we know that what might be a magic want now will be less applicable in, say, a highly automated society with high unemployment?

                   Jeez, even your trite solution becomes less simple very quickly. Maybe we should have some sort of working party look at it with official advice for all the various options. I think that’s already started.
                   • Gosman …

                     12 August 2018 at 7:48 pm

                     What does the Government do with the cash?!? I can’t believe I read that comment from a lefty. I thought there was a huge list of areas of under investment that was crying out for funding.

                     How about instead of a working group you propose actual policies.
                   • McFlock …

                     12 August 2018 at 8:06 pm

                     Start by reading the 2017 manifestos of the Labour and Green parties.

                     While you’re at it, get a dictionary and find out what “rampant” means.
                 • Pat …

                   12 August 2018 at 7:50 pm

                   has been done, NZ pre 1984…and its progressive taxation rather than increased.
                   • Gosman …

                     12 August 2018 at 7:59 pm

                     Whatever. The point is it is easy enough to implement so why isn’t the current Government implementing it?
                   • Pat …

                     12 August 2018 at 8:09 pm

                     might have something to do with the pledge not to alter taxation this parliamentry term
                   • McFlock …

                     12 August 2018 at 8:22 pm

                     Because of pricks like you trying to point score and derail every goddamn conversation about inequality for literally years – even a decade in your individual case. If the search engine were running I’d bring up some debates we had back when the nats were a young and fresh government and you reckoned everything was fine. Now that it’s someone else’s problem, you’re happy to provide half-arsed suggestions on how to fix the damage.
                   • Gosman …

                     13 August 2018 at 12:55 am

                     Are you claiming my arguments are somehow powerful enough that they have the ability to slow the implementation of urgently needed policies to tackle inequality?
                   • McFlock …

                     13 August 2018 at 2:31 pm

                     not you by yourself.

                     Just you and pricks like you. As Marx basically said, the mediocrities who manage to thrive better then most under capitalism will fight to preserve what little advantage they have, thereby serving the interests of the true profiteers of the system.

                     You, Gosman, are an excellent example of the alienation that capitalism causes, a fracturing of the natural human connections within society. But you are merely one amongst thousands, if not millions.
                   • Gosman …

                     13 August 2018 at 2:36 pm

                     But united we stand McFlock!

                     How ironic that the power of collective action is defeated by collective resistance.
                   • McFlock …

                     14 August 2018 at 1:49 pm

                     Not collective resistance.

                     Fractured, alienated, individual small-mindedness. Hordes of nasty little egoists convinced that they’re better than most other people, little realising that they’ll always just be the expendable pawns of capitalists, thrown just enough crumbs to keep them ravenous.
               • Hongi Ika …

                 13 August 2018 at 3:53 am

                 People like Donald Brash & John Key were the ultimate magician’s, they could just wave their magic wands around and everything was fixed in a jiffy, it was like watching everyone being sprinkled with pixie shit.

                 “The Art of the Illusion?”
     • Ed 2.1.4

       12 August 2018 at 9:36 am

       Have you seen Adrian’s response below?
       As you asked, it might be nice to respond.
     • Grey Area 2.1.5

       12 August 2018 at 1:32 pm

       Zzzzzzz….
   • solkta 2.2

     12 August 2018 at 8:26 am

     What evidence do you have for the claim that climate change will “see life extinguished on this Earth”? Sounds like bullshit to me.
     • Ed 2.2.1

       12 August 2018 at 8:30 am

       Of course it would to you.
       Maybe you should read a bit more widely.
       Did you see Bill’s post the other day?
       Beyond that, I am not doing the research for you.
       • solkta 2.2.1.1

         12 August 2018 at 8:40 am

         So i think you meant to say “some life forms”. It would not be possible for it to “extinguish life”.
       • mauī 2.2.1.2

         12 August 2018 at 8:55 am

         Thank you Ed.
         • solkta 2.2.1.2.1

           12 August 2018 at 8:58 am

           What are you thanking him for?
           • Ed 2.2.1.2.1.1

             12 August 2018 at 9:35 am

             You really don’t like alternative viewpoints, do you?
             You sound like the playground bully the way you stamp on other people’s comments.
             • solkta …

               12 August 2018 at 9:43 am

               So you do really think that climate change can extinguish life on earth? So i say again, where is your evidence? What is your argument? That position is certainly not supported by Bill’s last post and that is the only thing you have referenced.

               You do understand that it was the processes of life that put the carbon in the ground in the first place?

               Climate Change is a serious issue, talking nonsense is not helpful.
               • Ed …

                 12 August 2018 at 9:53 am

                 Zzzzzzzz
                 • Gosman …

                   12 August 2018 at 9:58 am

                   The question seems valid one. Simply because you can’t be bothered backing up your claim does not invalidate it.
                   • Grey Area …

                     12 August 2018 at 1:34 pm

                     Yawn…
                 • solkta …

                   12 August 2018 at 10:06 am

                   As usual you are not prepared to back up what you say. It is all just propaganda. All you really do here is fart.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     12 August 2018 at 1:31 pm

                     We all fart, and Ed’s ‘farts’ have value.

                     It’s possible that man-made climate change will extinguish all capitalism on Earth, but prokaryotes at least would survive.

                     Then just wait a billion years or so for the farting to begin again. Humans – so smart (we fart), so slow to learn.

                     “People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.“
                   • mauī …

                     12 August 2018 at 1:52 pm

                     You are a bully.
                   • marty mars …

                     12 August 2018 at 1:59 pm

                     A pity ed didnt just say ,’ha yeah you’re correct I didn’t mean extinguish ALL life but rather all HUMAN life. Thanks for pointing out my hyperbole.

                     But no we don’t get that do we.
                   • solkta …

                     13 August 2018 at 7:44 am

                     If that is what he actually thinks. It is often hard to be sure with Ed. But yeh, most of us just laugh it off when we get our words wrong.
3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

   12 August 2018 at 7:49 am

   And so this has happened.

   Lady with 3 kids living IN A NZ SHANTY TOWN.

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/106078431/the-shanty-town-of-wanaka

   I bet they get booted or their illegal (but necessary) structures get torched soon given that tourist $$$$ and visual impact matters more than people.

   Yeah no crisis at all
   • greywarshark 3.1

     12 August 2018 at 1:32 pm

     Albert Town Community Association chairman Jim Cowie.

     I think this gentleman is about to offer to personally put up some of the people in this camping ground about which he is expressing distaste. And he is going to reach out to the community to share space in their back yard and use of facilities so that those suffering from lust for money and lack of kindness and good planning will be able to remedy their faults in a practical and helpful manner.
     /Not
4. Ad 4

   12 August 2018 at 9:43 am

   What a sparkly gardening day
   • OnceWasTim 4.1

     12 August 2018 at 10:52 am

     Indupitably old bean. The answer lies in the soil.
     I just got me broccoli and cauliflower in, the fruit trees are blossoming and little Zealandia birdies are paying their regular visit.
     • In Vino 4.1.1

       12 August 2018 at 5:39 pm

       Indupitably.. lovely word. I like it.
5. joe90 5

   12 August 2018 at 10:00 am

   Best Ms Alyokhina be careful, because, you know, accidental suicide is a thing.

   https://www.thecut.com/2018/08/pussy-riot-smuggled-russia-music-festival.html
6. Adrian Thornton 6

   12 August 2018 at 10:32 am

   Email to RNZ this morning re; under reporting on Yemen…this should make their day.

   Fairness and balance in reporting Yemen and Kim Griggs defending RNZ’s racial bias

   Good morning

   In an bizarre email exchange earlier this year with the producer of morning report Kim Griggs on this very subject, that producer actually told me at the end of that debate, that people preferred to see/hear stories on people in USA or Europe, to which I replied (in effect) that how would she know what NZ citizens want or not want to hear/see, because she has has never let a balanced world news cycle to exist, so there was nothing for RNZ listeners to compare it too…..

   BTW if you know and understand that this is a serious problem of fairness and balance in reporting at RNZ..then change it!

   anyway here are some excepts from that exchange….

   Kim Griggs

   “And no, we’re not racist but there are differences in news values
   about deaths during annual monsoons, difficult as these are, versus
   unexpected and catastrophic flooding of a large city not used to
   flooding.

   There are also issues about news production from one area versus the
   other which is part and parcel of being part of the Western news
   media.”

   Adrian Thornton

   Thanks for your reply, however Huston has had major floods over the
   last three years, so this is not a completely unusual event there of
   late, where as the floods in India, Bangladesh and Nepal are the worst
   in 30 years, so are in fact an unusual event.

   I of course understand your (RNZ) dilemma with being a ‘western’ media
   source, however RNZ is the one place where this seemingly natural news
   bias should be at it’s lest obvious, which I have to say it is often
   not.

   Kim Griggs,

   “Adrian, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

   Thirty years of experience in news tells me most people don’t care
   about Bangladesh, more people care about Houston.

   Right or wrong, it’s happened like that for years. For instance If you
   can, without googling, name the ship involved in the deadliest
   peacetime maritime disaster in history (and a hint – it’s not the
   Titanic), I’ll listen to your arguments harder”.

   Adrian Thornton.

   I can’t remember it’s name off the top of my head, but I know that a
   German troop ship carrying civilians sunk at the end of WW2 by a
   Russian submarine is often cited as having the worst causality rate of
   a ship lost at sea….no google involved.

   I am sad to hear that you have succumbed to just answering the call of
   essentially reinforcing the lowest common denominator in human
   instinct, instead of helping to fellow citizens to look up higher,
   which as I mentioned earlier, is what I thought high level public
   funded news and reporting was all about…so I might just as well
   listen to Mike Hosking’s then?

   Kim Griggs,

   “Not at all, it was a ferry in the Philippines. You probably don’t
   recall because here in NZ no one took any notice of the fact four
   thousand Filipinos had died – then or ever since.

   And going back to the original message a) we are not racist and b) we
   are not an educational service, we are a news service. As such we
   follow the usual news values, which at the moment mean more people
   care about Paris over Kenya, Houston over Bangladesh. It may be a sad
   fact for you but it’s true.”

   Adrian Thornton.

   That’s a very strange analogy that you have used, surely you have just reinforced my position? isn’t this is the exact reason why RNZ should cover non european news in a more balanced way…I didn’t remember this tragedy probably because it was covered quite lightly considering it’s epic proportions at the time, whereas if this had happened in a western country I surely would have remembered it from the amount of coverage and human context you would have given it over a long time?

   People can only care about what they are informed about (you don’t know what you don’t know), if you took time to humanize and contextualize a human from Bangladesh most other humans would relate to that person just as much as they would if the person was from France, but you never do so they never will have that chance…but that is your production choice not ours.

   It is not sad for me personally because I try to take the time to stay informed, but it is sad for the citizens of NZ who trust you as their main news source.

   BTW news and education are the same thing, well should be.

   So there you have it..RNZ’s racial bias apparently explained.
   Best
   Adrian Thornton
   • Ed 6.1

     12 August 2018 at 10:37 am

     This conversation needs a post in its own right.
     There you have the biases of the msm laid bare.
     • greywarshark 6.1.1

       12 August 2018 at 10:53 am

       Adrian T
       You have taken this further than I have been able to. I have contacted RNZ
       about this and received no answer,

       When you get met with the sort of pomposity, complacency, calls to authority, history and precedent it is obvious as to how the recipients of complaints and requests for change view them.l

       It is interesting to hear this media person quote that they are not concerned with being educative. In a world where every previoly held idea is being hung by its heels over a long drop, it is obvious that this is so far away from acceptable that one can’t touch wuch ideas with a continent-wide barge pole.

       And going back to the original message a) we are not racist and b) we are not an educational service, we are a news service.

       This bit about being a news service being totally self-explanatory is similar to the old idea in sociological research that they were completely scientific without bias. Except when women surveyed their modus operandi and choice of subject, they were pronounced thoroughly sexist and women were considered second-rate. So long-held myths confuse from all sides in every centre of thought and choice.
       • OnceWasTim 6.1.1.1

         12 August 2018 at 11:34 am

         Interesting – Colin Peacock had a bit of a different take on things in Mediawatch (shame he isn’t Editor in Chief)
         TRP (below) may be correct if you subscribe to the idea that a public service broadcaster should only be concerned with what’s popular.
         It’s no wonder that some of NZ’s best (and others from that ‘Western media’) fuck off and join Aljazeera
     • Dennis Frank 6.1.2

       12 August 2018 at 11:24 am

       I agree Ed, and well done Adrian. I’ve had a global view since I was a teenager in the sixties and often noticed the relative discounting of news from afar.

       Dunno if you’d call this bias Eurocentric or pakeha-centric? A residue of colonialism? I give the RNZ producer credit for honesty though. Unusual, that.
       • Ed 6.1.2.1

         12 August 2018 at 11:27 am

         A residue of power as well.
         Only important people and countries are news
     • Adrian Thornton 6.1.3

       12 August 2018 at 1:10 pm

       @ Ed, I would be happy to put the whole exchange on a post if there was any interest, never done one before, so don’t know how to go about it, and I am not to tech savvy.
       • te reo putake 6.1.3.1

         12 August 2018 at 1:24 pm

         Hey, Adrian. If you’re keen, send the email exchange and your thoughts on it to me and I’ll turn it into a guest post. I’ll send you back a draft for your approval before publishing.

         tereoputake@gmail.com
         • Adrian Thornton 6.1.3.1.1

           12 August 2018 at 3:07 pm

           Will do. thanks.
   • te reo putake 6.2

     12 August 2018 at 11:05 am

     Kim Griggs is correct.

     Reporting reflects readership (or in this case, listenership). For an item to be newsworthy it has to meet several tests, such as its impact on the audience (does it directly affect them), proximity (a plane crash in Norway vs a plane crash in Normanby), timeliness and currency (is it fresh, is it engaging?), are people we know or recognise involved (Johnny Depp snapped wearing an AB jersey vs 2nd division Romanian rugby team has bus accident).

     There are quite a few principles or rules of newsworthiness that you could look up. They’ll help you understand why and how RNZ (and every other news service in the world) prioritises news. Hint, it’s not the news organisations’ ‘racism’, it’s the practical need to provide news that has value and engagement to the reader or listener.

     Even better, enrol in a journalism 101 course. You’ll learn a lot about how the media works in quick time and you’ll be less likely in the future to fall in to Morrissey shaped holes when critiquing media output.

     btw, there’s an old newspaper joke headline that goes something like this:

     Thousands Killed in Indian Earthquake; One Briton Bruises Toe.
     • Ed 6.2.1

       12 August 2018 at 11:25 am

       Not all media follow the same trajectory.

       I disagree with you and side with Adrian.
       And Morrissey is a beacon of light on the Standard.
       • te reo putake 6.2.1.1

         12 August 2018 at 11:37 am

         Correct. Only the successful ones share RNZ’s trajectory (and have been doing for hundreds of years).

         News values are not exactly a secret; as I wrote, they are taught at beginner level in media studies. If you don’t understand the process, you’ll never be able to successfully critique it.

         And, as an aside, there’s nothing racist in this approach. Media in Africa, or Asia, or the Americas all use the exact same principles. You’ll be hard pressed to find regular mention of NZ in overseas news outlets for exactly the same reason.

         Racism? No; relevancy.

         ps agree about Morrissey’s luminous qualities, and I’ll refrain from cheap jokes about the wattage of his bulb 😉
         • Ed 6.2.1.1.1

           12 August 2018 at 12:25 pm

           Economics 101 teaches neoliberalism as a fact not a theory.’what is taught at University is not necessarily either correct or true.
           • te reo putake 6.2.1.1.1.1

             12 August 2018 at 12:59 pm

             Er, I illustrated the actual process used for centuries in media, Ed. It’s nothing to do with university (though you can learn about it there). The guiding principles for media reporting are fundamentally unchanged over the years and if you understand them, you can understand why the responses from Kim Griggs are actually correct.

             No need for uni, just google ‘newsworthy’. There’s a ton of guidance available. And once you’ve got your head around it, you’ll be able to contextualise media reporting from around the world a hell of a lot easier.

             And once you know what the media are doing and why, then you have a basis for quality criticism.
           • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1.1.1.2

             12 August 2018 at 3:04 pm

             @ Ed
             Exactly right +1
           • Hongi Ika 6.2.1.1.1.3

             13 August 2018 at 4:01 am

             Do they actually teach that Neoliberalism Bullshit at University, I did an Economics Degree at Lincoln University under Professor Bruce Ross, he subsequently joined the OECD and became one of the world’s leading agricultural economists.

             We did papers on production economics, international economics & trading, farm management & production systems, financial & management accounting, so what is neoliberal economics ?
           • Gosman 6.2.1.1.1.4

             13 August 2018 at 5:15 am

             You know this how?
         • OnceWasTim 6.2.1.1.2

           12 August 2018 at 12:59 pm

           “News values are not exactly a secret; as I wrote, they are taught at beginner level in media studies………..”
           They certainly are, as are other ideas (such as the news agenda, and gate-keeping) in the hope there’d be some critical thought.
           Then there’s a Public Sphere in which people are exposed to other ideas and viewpoints, NOT solely those that an individual might solicit. When we only ever expose ourselves to that which we solicit, we end up living in our own little bubble.
           Of course, given that much of what is taught in the (now) BUSINESS of education, where boxes are ticked, and it doesn’t matter if the Media 101 student has plagiarised, or not even written their own assignments, some have reason to worry about the state of our public media.

           What I find most interesting in the Adrian Thornton/Kim Griggs exchange is the bit about “thirty years experience………..etc”. She must undoubtably know best.
           As I said before, it’s no wonder why many of our best are fucking off to join the likes of Aljazeera.
           But then I defer to you TRP – you’re the voice of reason.
         • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1.1.3

           12 August 2018 at 1:07 pm

           @TRP,
           I would expect nothing less from you……and here I was thinking that one of the key objectives of the progressive project was helping fellow citizens and one’s self to slowly progress toward evolving to something higher…you know a place where we can care as much about people in Africa as in the USA, as much about someone’s plight in South East Asia as we do about someone in the UK or NZ….maybe not in our life times, but through us standing up to and calling out blatant racism/sexism etc in whatever way we can, we try to make a difference…at lest that is what I think part of being a progressive means.

           Obviously you think different, and that’s OK..in the words of Kim Griggs….
           “we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
           • te reo putake 6.2.1.1.3.1

             12 August 2018 at 1:16 pm

             ” … here I was thinking that one of the key objectives of the progressive project was helping fellow citizens and one’s self to slowly progress toward evolving to something higher… ”

             And that has precisiely nothing to do with RNZ. They don’t exist as part of a ‘progressive project’. They’re a state owned news outlet, broadly based on the BBC model, and utilising the common news gathering and broadcast methods of all other news outlets.

             You’re simply expecting too much from them.
             • OnceWasTim …

               12 August 2018 at 1:39 pm

               “Er, I illustrated the actual proces…………”
               Don’t you mean ” WHY Er HELLO!!!!, I illustrated the actual proce…………”

               And just btw (that’s ‘by the way’), people are actually expecting a bare minimum
               Er er er er er
             • Adrian Thornton …

               12 August 2018 at 3:02 pm

               @TRP
               No it is you who you expects too little.
           • Dennis Frank 6.2.1.1.3.2

             12 August 2018 at 1:23 pm

             My take was that TRP wasn’t defending the status quo, merely describing it. Identifying the relevant teaching in media 1.01 explains why journos operate accordingly. Well to a large extent. Obviously supervision of those in the media organisation hierarchy reinforces adherence.

             Most commentators believe leftists control & perpetuate education curricula according to the antique formula `those who can, do; those who can’t, teach’. Institutionalisation of the problem is the problem. A progressive agenda would include an education regime fit for purpose.

             Then there’s the problem created by those calling out blatant racism/sexism: collateral damage caused by callers who get it wrong…
           • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1.3.3

             12 August 2018 at 6:48 pm

             you know a place where we can care as much about people in Africa as in the USA

             I do. I don’t really care about either. Their life and death have no effect upon me.

             As TRP said – it’s all about relevancy.

             Now, if the African states banded together and started wars the same way that the US does then I’d be interested. If African deaths were caused by US actions or vice versa I’d be interested.

             These types of things are interesting as they require a country to respond to them in some way.

             Bias can be shown in the MSM but not because they don’t report natural disasters. It’s because they’ll report a single Israeli death to Hamas missiles while the thousands of Palestinians killed by the IDF and Israeli settlers on Palestinian land either doesn’t get mentioned at all or its not more than a line or two.
             • Adrian Thornton …

               12 August 2018 at 8:47 pm

               It is not about relevance it is about balance, I get it that of course we would never have or maybe even want a 50/50 news balance re; west and the rest, but at the moment RNZ would be running on something like 90/10 or worse…I don’t know what the right balance is but it ain’t what it is now, that much is for sure.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 12 August 2018 at 9:54 pm

                 No, it really is about relevance. They don’t have a lot of time to put things in and so things need to be prioritised and the simple fact is that things like death outside of the local is of no relevance whatsoever.
     • greywarshark 6.2.2

       12 August 2018 at 1:14 pm

       Hint, it’s not the news organisations’ ‘racism’, it’s the practical need to provide news that has value and engagement to the reader or listener.

       As the way that media operate and have condensed is a change, so the way that media is taught and views itself has to change. It is no use repeating what has been the meme for years. Particularly as change is being thrust upon us because of our ineptitude of understanding received news in the past, and what has been chosen as suitable for us. (Patronising, even authoritarian.) And then there are the enormous number of things we don’t know that we don’t know.

       I am interested in expanding my knowledge. It is facile to argue that news should be just about what is popular. Also that it is not educative. People read news to learn – at a populist level just what is going on in their everyday thought playpen, then those who want to be citizens read it to go further, and ask why is this going on and what ramifications does it have. When others choose the information to be presented people are being cheated of the opportunity to be informed people. Then you get bunches of prejudiced stuff flowing round in society that is all artificially flavoured but few will know what the reality looks and smells like.

       I like Slavoj Zizek who presents constant clashes between what one thinks is known and his latest perception. He commented on a well-known speech from 2002 by then United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
       Rumsfeld stated:

       Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones…..

       (But there was more).
       Psychoanalytic philosopher Slavoj Žižek says that beyond these three categories there is a fourth, the unknown known, that which we intentionally refuse to acknowledge that we know: “If *Rumsfeld thinks that the main dangers in the confrontation with Iraq were the ‘unknown unknowns’, that is, the threats from Saddam whose nature we cannot even suspect, then the Abu Ghraib scandal shows that the main dangers lie in the “unknown knowns”—the disavowed beliefs, suppositions and obscene practices we pretend not to know about, even though they form the background of our public values.”[12]
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

       Ever heard of a Johari window? No. Oh that will be because some newsman decided it wasn’t new news that was fit to print.

       For a Public Service Broadcaster, in an out-of-the-way place like NZ, not to be delivering a pathway to world news leads to our ignorance, our backwardness and our cringe mentality to ‘clever sophisticated people from overseas'[ which seems fairly well-embedded in us. FGS get off your cliche’s of merely following historical trends that don’t supply what we need in a fraught, taut, endangered and not well-informed nation – that has to change.
     • mpledger 6.2.3

       13 August 2018 at 11:50 am

       And those rules may have made sense in the 1950s where NZ was connected to England … and that was it. But NZ has Bangladeshis living here, it has Africans living here, we tend to be well travelled especially to south east Asia.

       I was pretty shocked to hear (on media report on RNZ) that 1,000,000 Yemeni’s are likely to get cholera and that the Saudi’s have bombed the port that medical supplies come through. I had no idea the conflict was at that kind of scale.

       The silence isn’t because it’s in part of the world that we are not interested in – it’s silence around who are doing the attacking and who are supplying the millitary equipment … and it’s not Russia.
   • Bearded Git 6.3

     12 August 2018 at 11:06 am

     Brilliant post Adrian. RNZ needs to get rid of Kim Griggs-terrible sentiments, terrible opinions.

     It is because of people like her that all we hear is Trump Trump Trump…
     • weston 6.3.1

       12 August 2018 at 4:26 pm

       I concur !! rnz seems to do a good job of giving us a very broad selection of music from around the world , and we get current affairs etc etc but the news as such is a few minutes of msm talking points WTF ??just the same as the crap on tv Does the rnz newsroom not contain any actual journalists ?To make a food analogy its like a constant diet of luncheon sausage and boiled veges and like a row of blackbirds with gaping beaks we,re expected to swallow the spoon fed proffering !!Im sure TRP,s explanation is accurate but it still feels patronising or in this case matronising !!
   • David Mac 6.4

     12 August 2018 at 12:09 pm

     I too appreciate you sharing your exchange Adrian, thanks, it is an interesting subject.

     I’m not fond of the picket up my bum but I find myself on the fence. When I strip down my personal take on newsworthiness I am more inclined to want to hear more about my neighbour that got struck with lightning than 1000 drowning in Dunedin. Ideally, like you Adrian, I feel that an insight into both events is both attainable and desirable.

     In the media smorgasbord we live in I feel a handle on the world view I’m after is attainable but it’s all down to my searching and clicking. Read 3 lines in a Herald World News round-up and go searching for an English spoken Bangladesh TV report.
7. greywarshark 7

   12 August 2018 at 12:23 pm

   Wallace talking to Bill Bailey about everything. Wonderful humorous thoughtful intelligent and with interesting comment on England. Bill talks about going round some areas of England and the sad state of boarding up they show wth nothing much to notice except some tech shop. And the government obsessed in trying to make sense over Brexist with things being on hold there which the country needs to attend to. The place sounds in a state of paralysis, and the mind boggles about what will happen when final dates arrive and some areas will just close down.

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018657732/bill-bailey-comic-stand-up-who-loves-sup
   Bill Bailey’s a man of many talents. As well as making people laugh, he’s an enthusiastic stand-up paddle boarder, passionate conservationist, accomplished musician and an author. He’s back in New Zealand in September with his Earl of Whimsy show which features tales of Britain’s fortunes past and present. He shares his thoughts on many things from Brexit to the best places in the world to paddle board.
8. bruce 8

   12 August 2018 at 12:35 pm

   From Bill Maher
   https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/875114352679132/UzpfSTYyNTA3NDI3Mjk2OjEwMTU1ODg0MDYyNDEyMjk3/
9. Adrian Thornton 9

   12 August 2018 at 1:15 pm

   Is Jeremy Corbyn’s “anti-Semitism Crisis” a Smear Campaign?

   ‘UK Opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn is accused of presiding over a surge of anti-Semitism inside the Labour Party. Author Norman Finkelstein and British scholar Jamie Stern-Weiner say that Corbyn’s foes have cynically concocted a fake scandal to sabotage his progressive agenda and support for Palestinian rights’

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqXfauyxMX4
   • Dennis Frank 9.1

     12 August 2018 at 1:52 pm

     Too bad Finkelstein’s microphone/acoustics rendered him mostly incomprehensible, but you get the general picture. Seems worse than a smear campaign when you factor in some of the other reports from recent times. Anybody interested in the extent to which the Israel lobby is operated like a gutting knife in the body of the British Labour Party ought to read this expert commentary & analysis: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-08-08/labour-crisis-israel-anti-semitism/

     The party exec committee is looking like a robot with a ray-gun having taken a hit to its control system, gone rogue & now zapping its members with random bursts. Now jews are subdividing themselves into good jews & bad jews!!
   • Ad 9.2

     12 August 2018 at 10:48 pm

     Corbyn can support Israel as a whole (including all the Druze and Arabs who are such significant minorities), if he opposes the destructive Netanyahu-affiliated parties and government, and finds common cause engaging with Israel’s own Labor Party and its own potential coalition.

     The 2019 Israel election awaits.
10. Pat 10

    12 August 2018 at 1:17 pm

    Anyone for chess?

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/08/checkmate-in-two-years.html
    • Dennis Frank 10.1

      12 August 2018 at 1:28 pm

      Depends on Winston. As usual. Trotter has to maintain industry to get his columns published in our dwindling newspaper pool. That requires constant conjuring up of new angles from which to view stuff.
      • Pat 10.1.1

        12 August 2018 at 3:02 pm

        Granted he has a living to make but some of the observations are not without merit
11. adam 11

    12 August 2018 at 2:05 pm

    13.5% wage drop. Such great times we live in, the greedy got get their fix, and workers are where they getting it, by keeping wages low. How about you just stop. STOP. it’s a simple message, no fighting, no struggle, just stop engaging with this system built on greed and exploitation.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz//business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12096031&ref=clavis
    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      12 August 2018 at 10:24 pm

      “I know multiple people who have applied to work in the mines, myself included, and get rejected, so it’s not that Aussies don’t want them, it’s that the mining company’s don’t want Aussies,” Stuart Lightman added.

      As more migrant workers are flown in to pick up mining jobs, conditions and pay have also begun to deteriorate.

      According to Ryan, he and his friends were only out there for the money, which isn’t what it used to be.

      Are we truly surprised that big business is lying so as to lower wages and conditions?
12. joe90 12

    12 August 2018 at 3:37 pm

    ‘Murica

    The first step in tackling a problem is identifying it. That’s the thinking behind a new effort from the Ad Council and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence designed to promote gun safety in the home.

    The organizations today are introducing a new term: “family fire,” aimed at preventing shootings that result from improperly stored weapons or misuse of firearms in households.

    The idea for “family fire” takes inspiration from now familiar terms that have helped to address other epidemics in our country: secondhand smoke, designated driver, friendly fire. “Our goal is to make ‘family fire’ a part of the vernacular in an attempt to change behavior and save lives,” says Lisa Sherman, president and CEO of the Ad Council

    http://adage.com/article/advertising/family-fire-words-taking-home-gun-tragedies-head/314536/
13. joe90 13

    12 August 2018 at 9:04 pm

    Turkey’s financial troubles started off as currency issues, and now they’re afflicted with the same woes that sank Greece, debt and liquidity.

    The most immediate issue for Turkish policy makers is the financial system, which is exposed to interest- and exchange-rate shocks. Four people with knowledge of the matter said the banking regulator had scheduled calls with some banks on Saturday after asking them to study the potential impact. The regulator, known as BDDK in Turkish, said there was no meeting scheduled for Saturday and that the reviews were routine.

    “This is a textbook currency crisis that’s morphing into a debt and liquidity crisis due to policy mistakes,” said Win Thin, a strategist at Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. in New York. “The way things are going, markets need to be prepared for a hard landing in the economy, corporate defaults on foreign currency debt, and possible bank failures.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-11/with-turkey-crisis-erupting-bankers-gather-for-emergency-talks
14. Jenny 14

    12 August 2018 at 9:43 pm

    Suggested new names for Act

    Whact, Cract, Sact, Sect, Suct, *uct.
    • Psych nurse 14.1

      12 August 2018 at 10:01 pm

      Fuckt
15. marty mars 15

    12 August 2018 at 9:53 pm

    Classic read and interesting too

    “It’s well known that the racist news website wizard and former Trump confidante Steve Bannon, currently planning a pan-global far-right resurgence called The Motion, was inspired by Jean Raspail’s controversial 1973 French science-fiction novel The Camp of the Saints, which uses an invasion of western Europe by disenchanted brown people from below the equator as a satire of white European privilege and colonial guilt.

    But is it possible that Bannon’s current championing of the sunbed magnate and mortgage fraudster Tommy Robinson as “the backbone” of the UK has been inspired by his acquaintance with a less well-known piece of fascist-flavoured fiction?

    The Canadian alcoholic Richard Allen is thought to have written 290 novels in his lifetime, and between 1970 and 1980 he penned 18 violent books set in the milieu of Britain’s fractious youth culture, such as Skinhead, Skinhead Escapes, Skinhead Returns, and the martial arts-themed Taekwondo Skinhead…

    … Indeed, Steve Bannon seems to be carrying vast sections of dialogue from The Right Honourable Skinhead around in his head, which spill unbidden from his careless face. Bannon said, off-air, to the LBC presenter Theo Usherwood, who had queried his support for Tommy Robinson, “Fuck you. Don’t you fucking say you’re calling me out. You fucking liberal elite. Tommy Robinson is the backbone of this country.”

    And on page 103 of The Right Honourable Skinhead, the news magnate Steve Mannon, Robbie Tomlinson’s chief cheerleader, who differs only from Steve Bannon in that he is a Welsh born-again Christian, addresses radio presenter Leo Isherwood thus, “Flip you, boyo! Don’t you flipping say you’re calling me out. You flipping liberal elite. Robbie Tomlinson is the backbone of this country, by which I mean the whole UK not just Wales.””

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/12/stewart-lee-bannons-crush-on-britains-old-bootboys
16. joe90 16

    12 August 2018 at 10:07 pm

    Not much on how women are faring, but anyhoo, read it and weep.

    The decimation of Syria’s male population represents, arguably, the most fundamental shift in the country’s social fabric. As a generation of men has been pared down by death, disability, forced displacement and disappearance, those who remain have largely been sucked into a violent and corrupting system centered around armed factions.

    An Alawi family in a coastal village provides a window into the ravaged state of Syria’s male population, even in territory that has remained firmly under government control. Of three brothers, one was killed in battle, a second paralyzed by a bullet to the spine, and a third—an underpaid, 30-year-old civil servant—lives in fear of conscription. Their mother summed up her plight:

    We’re tired of war. I gave one martyr, and another son is half-dead. The youngest might be drafted at any moment. I hope for god to end this war; the graveyards are filled with young men.

    http://www.synaps.network/picking-up-the-pieces
17. eco maori 17

    13 August 2018 at 8:27 am

    Good Morning The Am Show Duncan good interview with the science professor John about round up weed killer the owners of that prouduct were cheating and manipulating the data we can not trust there prouduct use all chemicals with causation ban the stuff and come up with some kiwi innovation was to control weed’s
    Why did the council not have people on the ground check farms for environmental breaches because shonky backed the GDP money over the enviroment we leave for the mokopuna’s future I could see that happening right before my eyes .
    This is letting everyone know how Great tangata whenua O Atearoa Culture really is around Papatuanuku ka pai to who stirred this subject of OUR Haka UP.
    Ka kite ano
18. eco maori 18

    13 August 2018 at 9:07 am

    This is what I say about research data follow the mone and you will be able to see if the subject’s data is being manipulated to suit the mone men’s goal of selling more lie’s to us. The link is below
    Huge alcohol clinical trial collapses. ka kite ano

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/106158271/huge-alcohol-clinical-trial-collapses
19. Eco Maori 19

    13 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

    Good morning Newshub Ana to kai national
    Aretha Franklin is a exceptional musician one of the best condolences to her whano/family.
    Is that evedince for you 2 Europeen boys running Dairy farms were are the tangata whenua farm managers they are younger my sons.????????????? Am I imagineing it all. That it’s 10x harder for tangata whenua to get good well paying jobs.
    P.S we served our apprenticeship time in the Dairy industry. Its good that the council are going to check dairy farms effluent systems. You know how it is the many make sure they abide buy the rule and respect the environment and a small % don’t give a toss about the environment those are the idiots that ruin it for the majority OF of farmers. Aotearoa dollar is one of the most trusted traded dollar on Papatuanukue trump won’t shake the Papatuanukue to much his rich M8 will lose to much mone.
    I’M a big Cliff Curtis and Jason stratham Fan I liked The Dark Horse.
    Is Koepka a tangata whenua of America great golfing. Alex We hope we get some warm weather soon Ka kite ano
20. Eco Maori 20

    13 August 2018 at 7:19 pm

    Good evening The Crowd goes Wild James and Mulls look like Wendy and her team m8 had a bit of fun after winning the net ball competition.
    I tryed to find out Brook Koepka culture can’t find any thing on that subject. The Warriors are doing fine
    Ka kite ano P.S the sandflys are grasping at straws of – – – lol

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