Open mike 12/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 12th, 2022 - 86 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

86 comments on “Open mike 12/11/2022 ”

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  1. Sanctuary 1
    12 November 2022 at 6:19 am

    Victory for the Ukrainians in Kherson. Amazing scenes as the population celebrates liberation.

    Take that Putin fan bois.

    • tsmithfield 1.1
      12 November 2022 at 6:45 am

      Yes. It makes a really great start to the day.

      A CNN reporter reporting from Kherson as Ukrainian troops march in for those of us who want to BIRG a bit.

      • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1
        12 November 2022 at 7:03 am

        This is obviously the beginning of the end for the Russian Imperialist invasion and occupation of Ukraine.

        Amazing, and joyous.

        The Russians have long signaled a false flag atrocity in Kherson that they can blame on Ukraine, with the purpose of inflaming Russian public opinion against Ukraine to shore up flagging support for this war

        The worry must be:

        Will the Russian imperialists, accept this defeat?
        The realisation of which will be the acceptance of the fact that this is the start of their inevitable total route from all of the occupied territories.
        Or will the Russian Federation imperialists try and rob this hard won victory of any celebration, with a false flag attack, and continue the war?

        • tsmithfield 1.1.1.1
          12 November 2022 at 7:22 am

          I guess that is a worry.

          There was some talk about the Russians blowing the Kakhovka dam. But they probably would have done that by now if they were going to, and it really isn't in their interests to do that anyway.

          The Russians could set up their artillery on the other side of the river and start pounding away at Kherson and its regions. But Ukraine now has longer range and more precise artillery, so could probably eliminate that threat fairly quickly.

          The biggest worry at the moment is that the Russians might be getting Iranian ballistic missiles (having used up most of their own). This would allow them to target Ukrainian power infrastructure again, and would be difficult to stop.

          Hence why the US really needs to start sending longer range ATACMs missiles to Ukraine so Ukraine can target the launch sites, and Russian airfields in the region.

            • tsmithfield 1.1.1.1.1.1
              12 November 2022 at 8:19 am

              Yes, that is old news, from September. I have seen reports to indicate that things may have changed in that respect.

            • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.1.1.2
              12 November 2022 at 9:40 am

              As well as not supplying Ukraine with the long range Himars that Ukraine requested, The US vetoed Poland supplying Ukraine with MIG fighter jets.

              https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/9/us-rejects-poland-offer-to-send-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-ukraine

              I find it intriguing, that maybe you are starting to realise that Ukraine is not getting all the support from the US they would have got, if Ukraine was simply a Yankee puppet state, acting in America's interests, against Ukraine's own best interests.

              Sort of makes a lie of pro war trolls lie that this is a proxy war between the US and Russia. And not a war for national independence from a foreign invader.

              For goodness sake even Russia let the Vietnamese have MIG fighter jets to fight their invader.

              https://www.rbth.com/blogs/2015/04/30/vietnam_war_the_critical_role_of_russian_weapons_42917

              And even though that war too was accused of being a proxy war between the super powers it too was a war for national independence from a foreign invader

              Sure the super powers like to see their rivals getting a black eye from one of the countries subject to their imperial expansion, and so will back their effort to liberate themselves. But that alone does not make it a proxy war.

              • mikesh …
                12 November 2022 at 10:49 am

                The US has always refused to set up a "fly zone", presumably because they wanted to avoid a direct confrontation with Russia for fear of setting off a nuclear war. However they could have sent planes for the Ukrainians themselves to use. Why didn't they? Is it because the Russians would have no way of ascertaining who would have been flying them if the the did?

                And why does Poland need US permission to send planes anyway?

                • Barfly …
                  12 November 2022 at 3:07 pm

                  Standard contract of weapons suppliers is that any on selling has to be approved by the country of the weapons manufacturer. We needed USA permission to sell our old Skyhawks (I think the deal fell through)

                  • joe90 …
                    12 November 2022 at 4:20 pm

                    Complicated by Poland's NATO membership.

                    But Western officials worry that if Ukrainian pilots go to a NATO country to pick up fighter jets and then fly them back into contested Ukrainian airspace, where they might have to engage with Russian fighters, Moscow will view the country they left from as a combatant and therefore fair game.

                    And NATO’s core tenet, spelled out in Article 5 of its charter, is that an attack on any member country is an attack on all, meaning all 30 member states would be obligated to join the fight.

                    “The intelligence community has assessed the transfer of MiG-29s to Ukraine may be mistaken as escalatory and could result in Russian reaction that could increase the prospects of a military escalation with NATO,” Pentagon spokesman John Kirby told reporters Wednesday.

                    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-reject-polands-plan-give-ukraine-soviet-era-fighter-jets-rcna19396

    • mauī 1.2
      12 November 2022 at 10:10 am

      Victory due to a Russian planned withdrawal, not bad ay. Just waiting for the imminent Russian army collapse like it was supposed to do after Kharkov.. right?

      For an area that voted to join Russia, my best guess would be that the populace is not celebrating as you depict it.

      • tsmithfield 1.2.1
        12 November 2022 at 10:20 am

        So, why did the Russians feel the need to withdraw in the first place.

        And, what was the referendum vote? Nearly 100% as I remember. So, if that result wasn't a complete fabrication as most countries believe, there should be huge protests greeting the Ukrainian arrival. I expect you will be able to post videos of that.

        • mauī 1.2.1.1
          12 November 2022 at 11:52 am

          Because their forces are consolidated on the eastern side of the river. Having a single outpost on the western side means its vulnerable. Makes sense to withdraw then right?

          I don't think the result was 100% in Kherson, but how would these countries know what an accurate result was if they're already anti-Russia to begin with. Also there is no doubt that the eastern and southern areas of Ukraine are generally pro Russian, this is backed up by their voting preference for Yanukovych pre-2014 when the situation there wasn't muddied by war and propaganda.

          • tsmithfield 1.2.1.1.1
            12 November 2022 at 3:05 pm

            "I don't think the result was 100% in Kherson… "

            So you agree the result was bogus then? Voting at the point of a gun generally isn't very democratic.

            "Also there is no doubt that the eastern and southern areas of Ukraine are generally pro Russian,"

            Torturing and killing your "citizens" isn't usually great for patriotism.

            And, how long do you think the Russians will be able to hang there on the other side of the river, with the Ukrainians having longer range and more accurate artillery, especially HIMARS.

            • mauī 1.2.1.1.1.1
              13 November 2022 at 2:25 pm

              Russia can hold on as long as it likes. They have a stable frontline, air superiority, drone superiority, tank superiority, artillery and missile superiority. They've been destroying NATO equipment en mass as they repel attacks, and each military aid package Ukraine receives from other countries just gets weaker and weaker.

      • Anne 1.2.2
        12 November 2022 at 10:49 am

        So, you don't understand what a rigged referendum is? I feel sorry for you. It really must hurt having a brain so easy to manipulate.

        • Francesca 1.2.2.1
          12 November 2022 at 1:15 pm

          Sounds like Trump and his stolen election

        • weston 1.2.2.2
          12 November 2022 at 4:35 pm

          There has been much bullshit said, mostly on msm ,about the referendums in the donbas calling them 'rigged ' etc .Their are multiple interviews of actual civilians living in these areas participating in the referendums so before you go accusing others Anne of having brains that are "easy to manipulate "you might like to actually inform yourself !!

          This is one from Eva Bartlett who did many such interviews at the time

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHafLEHaZ6g

          And heres another by Patrick Lancaster he also has done many interviews on this subject .

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYqusaO2Gg

          In all the material ive seen on these referendums they have been conducted in an orderly lawful manner nothing " rigged " about them.

          • Sanctuary 1.2.2.2.1
            12 November 2022 at 5:17 pm

            OMG they walk amongst us.

            Anyway, I was wearing my “Armed Forces of the Ukraine” teeshirt at the mall today and I got a “Slava Ukraine!” from a couple of women so I was right pleased.

      • Tony Veitch 1.2.3
        12 November 2022 at 11:32 am

        I can't understand Russian reasoning (!!!) Kherson controls the canal which waters the Crimean Peninsula. If Ukraine cuts that off, Crimea must fall.

        What on earth is going on in Putin's head?

      • Sanctuary 1.2.4
        12 November 2022 at 11:53 am

        lol what part of "retreat" don't you understand?

  2. Francesca 2
    12 November 2022 at 9:25 am

    "Biden said he decided to deny U.S. aircraft to guarantee Ukraine’s skies because, “We’re not going to get into a third world war, taking on Russian aircraft and directly engage.” In a reference to Ukraine’s request for the longer-range Army Tactical Missile System, made by Lockheed Martin, Biden said he’s denied the Ukrainians such missiles, “because I’m not looking for them to start bombing Russian territory.”"

    https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2022/11/10/biden-ukraine-aid-will-keep-flowing-even-through-a-gop-led-house/

    • Jenny are we there yet 2.1
      12 November 2022 at 11:28 am

      – Biden said he’s denied the Ukrainians such missiles, “because I’m not looking for them to start bombing Russian territory.”" –

      Makes a lie of the Russian troll farm claim that this is a 'US/Natzo' proxy war to destroy Russia, Instead of what it is, a war for independence from an expansionist imperial power.

      • Jenny are we there yet 2.1.1
        12 November 2022 at 11:53 am

        Growth and expansion is innate to capitalism.

        Unfortunately for the Russian Federation, (and China), they have come late to the imperialist carve up of the world.

        And as their growth economies butt up against the established global powers, (which are having their own struggles with 'growth'), war is the inevitable result.

        Infinite growth on a finite planet is not possible War and biosphere collapse are the result.

    • tsmithfield 2.2
      12 November 2022 at 12:00 pm

      You would be surprised how things change. A lot of stuff Ukraine is using now was denied them at the start of the war.

    • tsmithfield 2.3
      12 November 2022 at 12:17 pm

      Either this is an old man moment, or Biden has let the cat out of the bag:

      https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-joe-bidens-claim-himars-given-ukraine-have-160-mile-range-1758739

      Biden said there are 600 mile range rockets for Himars and 160 mile rockets, and that they haven't given Ukraine the 600 mile versions.

    • Sanctuary 2.4
      12 November 2022 at 1:39 pm

      I wpould bet dollars to donuts the US has provided a limited number of ATACMS to Ukraine.

  3. weston 3
    12 November 2022 at 9:59 am

    Funniest event of the week for me was Zelensky picking up the Oscar !!!!

    From the Evening Standard

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0Hh3RZJwuwo

  4. Adrian 4
    12 November 2022 at 10:58 am

    Yes its a funny old war.. it appears as though once again Russia has come to Ukraines aid by donating huge stockpiles of weaponry. Nice one Vlad.

  5. Belladonna 5
    12 November 2022 at 11:06 am

    I agree with Jan Logie on this one. If it's too dangerous for Fisheries observers to work on these small ships – because they drift with no active watch, and are at risk of collision; then those vessels should not be eligible for or be granted NZ fisheries quota.

    Maritime NZ says that watchkeeping is a requirement, but FNZ has no capacity to enforce it. Yanking the fishing quota would be a fine enforcement method.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/130411297/fisheries-observers-removed-over-health-and-safety-fears

    • Stuart Munro 5.1
      12 November 2022 at 9:03 pm

      Maritime NZ should be deticketing anyone failing to keep a watch.

      But they're useless – only good for prosecuting the survivors of things like White Island.

      They're a disgrace to the profession.

    • Belladonna 6.1
      12 November 2022 at 11:46 am

      Terrible for those small business owners (it's in the neighbourhood for me – so I know the businesses concerned). Many of them (e.g. the Malaysian cafe or Subway) won't have anything significantly 'saleable' on the premises, or any cash – so it's pure love of destruction driving these criminals.

      Not excusing them when they do target shops to steal to order – but at least it's understandable.

  7. Anker 7
    12 November 2022 at 11:36 am

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/aut-nursing-students-cared-for-convicts-put-in-dangerous-situations-on-placement-student/BYW4KOTVVREKTCW464KVUMZKP4/

    Something is going very wrong with nursing training. We will lose these trainees nurses before they even are registered nurses.

    Student nurses to be paid well for placements, petrol money, car parking would be a good start.

    Dumping them in potential unsafe situations not o.k.

  8. Sanctuary 8
    12 November 2022 at 12:06 pm

    China has peaked, Russia is being routed, Trump is finished – there is hope in the world.

  9. Joe90 9
    12 November 2022 at 12:19 pm

    When you appoint a profiteer to run your wars.

    How General Surovikin helped Putin and oligarch Gennady Timchenko enrich themselves in Syria.

    https://twitter.com/pevchikh/status/1590740802116145154

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1590740802116145154.html

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QWad-NOAlYk&feature=youtu.be

    (English subtitles)

  10. Poission 10
    12 November 2022 at 12:28 pm

    Semper Augustus harvest as Crypto economy shrinks to small economy.

    https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1591017390598340608?cxt=HHwWgICq4eP4tpQsAAAA

    FBX in Chapter 11 bankruptcy as associated Zombies,fall over.

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1590951516860387328?cxt=HHwWgMColbb-mJQsAAAA

  11. adam 11
    12 November 2022 at 1:17 pm

    The warmongers out in force today.

    Too soon.

    https://www.usip.org/drafting-peace-agreement-five-phases

    • Grey Area 11.1
      12 November 2022 at 4:06 pm

      A bit cryptic.

      • Stuart Munro 11.1.1
        12 November 2022 at 9:05 pm

        Needs to be – he means rolling over to give Vlad a last quarter win.

        • adam 11.1.1.1
          12 November 2022 at 9:42 pm

          Say's Stuart Munro, your one of the worst spreading pro war propaganda.

          But like all warmongering trolls, your only defence is to smear anyone who is anti- war, as putin puppet.

          Sad man, just fucking sad.

          • Stuart Munro 11.1.1.1.1
            13 November 2022 at 6:32 pm

            No need to smear you – you chose that hill to die on.

            Thinking folk aren't too keen to get behind murderous despots – why are you?

            • adam 11.1.1.1.1.1
              14 November 2022 at 11:46 pm

              Think you better put up where I supported a despot, or shut the fuck up with you bullshit lies and trolling.

              • Stuart Munro …
                15 November 2022 at 7:55 am

                Do you deny supporting Putin, or do you deny that he's a despot?

                • adam …
                  15 November 2022 at 6:00 pm

                  But wait, you double down with your lies and bullshit.

                  You really are a total fucking loser.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    15 November 2022 at 7:15 pm

                    Oh, you're offended? After calling everyone else warmongers?

                    Wow solipsism – so hypocrisy.

                    But of course you didn’t answer the question. What are you trying to hide Adam? Do you deny an uncritical admiration for Putin, even after all his crimes?

                    • adam …
                      15 November 2022 at 11:41 pm

                      You just can't stop can you. Lies, misdirection and making shit up.

                      Is the president of Indonesia a Putin puppet, or uncritical of his admiration of Putin now as well? In that he is calling for what I'm calling for. In your world obviously that must be the case.

                      Can't think that the war is wasteful, otherwise your a Putin supporter in Stuart Munro's small little world.

                      So let me ask once again, prove I support a despot, just once, anywhere on this site. One example. You must have something with which to back your claims?

                      No, nothing, then may I suggest, you're full of shit.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    16 November 2022 at 12:07 am

                    You know, if your constant ad homs did not demonstrate what a shriveled husk of a human being you were, I might be offended.

                    Answer the question, Putin poppet.

                    Do you deny you support him, or do you deny he's a despot?

                    Come clean – speak your truth as you see it and stop slinking away like some cowardly postmodern poseur.

                    • adam …
                      16 November 2022 at 1:04 pm

                      Now your back to calling me a putin puppet – how very droll.

                      Can you read? Obviously via your comments, comprehension is a major problem for you.

                      Let me make it simpler for you – your boy Zelenskyy is a dick representing a corrupt and fubar oligarchy. On the other side is another dick representing a corrupt and fubar oligarchy. Both of which are war warmongers getting civilians killed to boost their egos.

                      Both swinging dicks around, rather than sorting out a settlement.

                      But then again, you might find that hard to comprehend. Someone who loathes all sides in this conflict.

                      Let me reiterate because of your inability to think, my position has not changed from day one of this war. This war is stupid, and should end before it spills out into something worse.

                      Leaving me with one conclusion, Stuart Munro you are just another tool for spreading hate and war.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    16 November 2022 at 3:19 pm

                    Zelenskyy is a dick representing a corrupt and fubar oligarchy. On the other side is another dick representing a corrupt and fubar oligarchy.

                    Ah the old false equivalence – how original.

                    Invasion – everybody does it, right?

                    Except, my little cabbage, Ukraine does not.

                    It's difficult keeping international politics straight I suppose – we just expected too much of you.

                    • adam …
                      18 November 2022 at 2:01 am

                      Ah the old false equivalence – how original.

                      No prizes for seconds..

                      As I don't support rulers who use civilians as human shields, pass anti worker laws, arrest and detain people for trying to leave the country. I'm not shocked you give them a free pass.

                      The Ukraine Oligarchs are proving themselves to be far right Anti-worker assholes, so I see why you support them.

                      At this point I'm not surprised to see you cluching your pearls. It's all you got left.

                    • RedLogix …
                      18 November 2022 at 5:43 am

                      @Adam

                      Millions of ordinary Ukrainians are putting body and soul on the line to defend their nation; either on the front or in support. The astonishing morale and commitment of their military is well understood as one of the key reasons why they have outperformed all pre-war expectations this past year.

                      Your shameful false equivalence spits on their sacrifice.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    18 November 2022 at 9:03 am

                    As I don't support rulers who use civilians as human shields, pass anti worker laws, arrest and detain people for trying to leave the country. I'm not shocked you give them a free pass.

                    Oh but you do – you consistently take the side of Putin like some soulless soviet aparatchik.

                    Putin's regime surpasses all your unsupported (as usual) allegations against Ukraine by orders of magnitude.

                    But you consistently ignore any evidence that does not support your inane prejudices, and thus you have become a Judas goat, a flagrant fascist supporter running agit prop against a Left site.

                    Shameless.

                    • adam …
                      18 November 2022 at 12:30 pm

                      you consistently take the side of Putin like some soulless soviet aparatchik.

                      See your back to lies again, I don't take the side of Putin and if you read anything I said, rather than fall into know it all, fucktard mod. You'd comprehend that.

                      Your Bush like, your with us or you against us logic is fubar.

                      https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-labour-law-wrecks-workers-rights/

                      https://www.solidaritycenter.org/more-attacks-on-rights-of-ukrainian-workers/

                      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/19/zrjy-j19.html

                      https://www.dw.com/en/how-ukrainian-men-try-to-get-around-the-ban-to-leave-the-country/a-62529639

                      Totally supported facts just to counter all the propaganda you have been spoon feed. .

                      How about you grow up Stuart Munro and realise this is probably the most propagandized war in history. And knowing the truth is quite difficult.

                      I'm calling for an end to the war, a negotiated settlement to stop the insanity. And what do I get from you and the other war monger fuck trads on this site – YOUR A FUCKING PUTIN PUPPET – shut the fuck up.

                      How about you go on line and read what the people who actually support putin are saying, it's very far from what I'm saying.

                      War never helps working people. It only enriches weapons makers and other war profiteering scum. They must be laughing their heads off at how simple it is to manipulate people like you.

                    • weka []
                      18 November 2022 at 12:39 pm

                      tone down the abuse please adam.

                    • weka …
                      18 November 2022 at 12:40 pm

                      please stop the abuse and personal attacks. If the conversation has gotten to the point where this is all you can do, then maybe it's time to step away and focus on something else.

                    • adam …
                      18 November 2022 at 12:41 pm

                      @ RedLogix

                      You can't call out bad leaders, because sacrifice….

                      You really are just an out and out jingoist these days Red.

                    • adam …
                      18 November 2022 at 12:44 pm

                      Come on weka, I've been called a putin puppet over and over with no fucking evidence that I am. It's tiresome.

                      I'm sick to fucking death of everytime I argue for a settlement to this conflict, I'm attacked for supporting putin. Or some other bullshit.

                      I'll stop now, as you obviously can't support peace on this web site.

                    • weka []
                      18 November 2022 at 12:58 pm

                      Well I’ve also just told Stuart to pull his head in, so I’m not sure that is quite true.

                      I don’t read every comment on TS. I don’t like reading the war debate, because I find them tedious. You can always reply to me somewhere on site with a link pointing out that someone is lying about your views. You know me well enough that I have a very low tolerance for people making shit up about others and I will act if I see that happening.

                      I do have limits on my time, so getting my attention is a better bet than taking the chance that I will read something off my own bat.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    18 November 2022 at 1:39 pm

                    You are called a Putin dupe repeatedly because you repeat his propaganda, and link his propaganda sites ad nauseum.

                    There is no sign of balance, or thought, or anything resembling morality – but you seem to imagine that your ill-founded reckons are not merely worthy of our attention, but are more persuasive and informed than those of the people on the ground.

                    The people on the ground are in this instance the Ukrainians. They want self-determination – but your version of political morality is so empty that you appear to believe that they must instead suffer the oppressive rule of Russian kleptocracy.

                    As a apologist for that regime, and a consistent and untiring enemy of Ukraine, you have no claim to enlightened values, nor to any pretention to the Left.

                    You're just a latter day Jean Brodie who's swapped Putin for Mussolini.

        • joe90 11.1.1.2
          12 November 2022 at 9:46 pm

          Eric Blair had pacifism's number.

          Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist.

          https://archive.ph/XxZj#selection-59.0-65.129

          • RedLogix 11.1.1.2.1
            12 November 2022 at 10:05 pm

            From your link:

            Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’. The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security. Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories. The Germans even run a spurious ‘freedom’ station which serves out pacifist propaganda indistinguishable from that of the P.P.U. They would stimulate pacifism in Russia as well if they could, but in that case they have tougher babies to deal with. In so far as it takes effect at all, pacifist propaganda can only be effective against those countries where a certain amount of freedom of speech is still permitted; in other words it is helpful to totalitarianism.

            I am not interested in pacifism as a ‘moral phenomenon’. If Mr Savage and others imagine that one can somehow ‘overcome’ the German army by lying on one’s back, let them go on imagining it, but let them also wonder occasionally whether this is not an illusion due to security, too much money and a simple ignorance of the way in which things actually happen. As an ex-Indian civil servant, it always makes me shout with laughter to hear, for instance, Gandhi named as an example of the success of non-violence. As long as twenty years ago it was cynically admitted in Anglo-Indian circles that Gandhi was very useful to the British government. So he will be to the Japanese if they get there. Despotic governments can stand ‘moral force’ till the cows come home; what they fear is physical force. But though not much interested in the ‘theory’ of pacifism, I am interested in the psychological processes by which pacifists who have started out with an alleged horror of violence end up with a marked tendency to be fascinated by the success and power of Nazism. Even pacifists who wouldn’t own to any such fascination are beginning to claim that a Nazi victory is desirable in itself.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1.1.2.2
            12 November 2022 at 11:21 pm

            If you judge a man by the company he keeps, then Blair was all over the place.

            A Brief History of Cranks
            On bearded fruit juice drinkers, nudists, and sandal-wearers

            “Socialism,” George Orwell famously wrote in The Road to Wigan Pier (1936), draws towards it ”with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist and feminist in England.” His tirade against such “cranks” is memorably extended in other passages of the book to include “vegetarians with wilting beards,” the “outer-suburban creeping Jesus” eager to begin his yoga exercises, and ”that dreary tribe of high-minded women and sandal-wearers and bearded fruit-juice drinkers who come flocking towards the smell of ‘progress’ like bluebottles to a dead cat.”

            Pacifists get a bad rap in wartime, but they're not all quaking in their sandals.

            Quakers
            Though a small religious movement, the Society of Friends (Quakers) organized relief and advocated rescue in Europe before, during, and after the Holocaust. The American Friends Service Committee became an important part of a rescue network helping refugees. The group worked in French internment camps, hid Jewish children, and assisted thousands of Jewish and non-Jewish refugees with immigration and resettlement to the United States.
            …
            Early Quakers were among the leaders of the anti-slavery movement in the United States. Quakers are also pacifists, responding to wartime calls for service seeking out non-combat roles such driving ambulances or serving in conscientious objector work camps.
            …
            For their relief efforts, their work with refugees, and for their overall promotion of peace, the American Friends Service Committee and their British counterparts, the Friends Service Council, were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1947.

            Beating the peace drum isn't always a pointless / thankless task – takes all kinds.

            https://quaker.org/legacy/minnfm/peace/integrity_of_german_friends_duri.htm

            • Belladonna 11.1.1.2.2.1
              13 November 2022 at 8:01 am

              Family story. My grandfather went to WW1 and served in the trenches. Family history is (he'd died before I was born) that he and his mates had the utmost respect for the Quaker ambulance drivers and medics on the front lines – 'they risked their lives every day to save others – without even the means to protect themselves'.

              OTOH, they had nothing but contempt for the 'Conshies' – regarding them as cowards.

            • millsy 11.1.1.2.2.2
              13 November 2022 at 10:05 am

              If Orwell was alive today, he would be regarded as 'anti-woke'.

          • adam 11.1.1.2.3
            13 November 2022 at 1:33 pm

            So if you don't kill Russians, and support the killing of Russians, your a fascist now.

            Your arguments are getting desperate joe90

            And sound somewhat like those who support Putin and co. Which I think the word I’m look for is…..

        • Grey Area 11.1.1.3
          13 November 2022 at 8:21 am

          I guessed as much. The huge waste of human life and destruction of infrastructure profoundly saddens me but there is one way to end this – for the Russians leave to Ukraine. The negotiations about reparations to rebuild Ukraine can begin then.

  12. Grey Area 12
    12 November 2022 at 3:36 pm

    Looks like we're seeing the return of plague ships. Why in the age of Covid do people think going on a cruise is a good idea? Humans I guess.

    Cruise ship with 800 cases docks in Sydney.

  13. Poission 13
    12 November 2022 at 7:52 pm

    FTX after filing chapter 11 bankruptcy, freezing accounts,and freezing transactions,has now been hacked with a substantive number of irregularities ( 260-600m$ into the ether)

    https://twitter.com/business/status/1591309921185923072?cxt=HHwWgIC8vab8u5UsAAAA

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  • Release of North Island Severe Weather Event Inquiry
    Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago

  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order.  “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
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    1 day ago

  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
    Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
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    1 day ago

  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
    Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing  At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin    Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho    Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.    I am delighted ...
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    1 day ago

  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
    The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
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    1 day ago

  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions.   “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says.    “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
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    1 day ago

  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
    New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today.   “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
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    1 day ago

  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
    Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale.  “It is good ...
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    2 days ago

  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
    The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
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    3 days ago

  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
    “China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says.   Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
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    3 days ago

  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
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    4 days ago

  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
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    4 days ago

  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
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    4 days ago

  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
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    4 days ago

  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
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    4 days ago

  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
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    4 days ago

  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
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    4 days ago

  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
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    5 days ago

  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
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    5 days ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
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    5 days ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
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    5 days ago

  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
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    5 days ago

  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
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    5 days ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
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    5 days ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
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    6 days ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
    Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
    Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
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    1 week ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
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    1 week ago

  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
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    1 week ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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