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Open mike 12/12/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 12th, 2020 - 40 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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40 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2020 ”

  1. Pat 2

    [deleted quote due to lack of link]

    and then

    "Even the beleaguered Queenstown-Lakes District recorded price growth of 10.8% in the three months to November."


    One trick ponies

    • vto 2.1

      High capital values help nobody

      Except lenders

      Go ask yourself

      Imagine how wealthy we would all be

      If our homes cost very little

      And our businesses

      The amount of money left in our back pockets would be unfeasibly higher….

      High capital values help nobody

      Other than lenders

      Go ask yourself

    • gsays 2.2

      If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits.

      If only the PM couldn't accept 'property investors' (don't say landlord) non-compliance of paying tax.


      • vto 2.2.1

        "If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits."

        Link benefits and minimum wage to house price inflation

        Job done

        Entirely justifiable

      • Grafton Gully 2.2.2

        "If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits." But an increase in benefits might be be a disincentive to working and she gets advice directly or indirectly from Dave Bratt at MSD about the importance of work.

        In a speech at the Conference for General Practice last month, ministry principal health adviser David Bratt said that it was important GPs talk to their unemployed patients about working. This included asking people "what they wanted to do for the rest of their life.


        It's the Work Ethic idea – still very influential.

        [Tidied up the format of quoted text to make it clearer]

        • Incognito

          As far as I can tell, Dr Bratt was first mentioned here on TS in 2008, talking of opening a can of worms!

    • Stuart Munro 2.3

      It's a curiosity that a government vehemently opposed to loading the economy with the deadweight costs of excessive taxation should be such pathetic boosters of an equivalent or greater deadweight cost paid to banks, with no redeeming social return.

      Some of the explanation no doubt lies with the ability of councils to inflate rates in a rising property market, to pay the nodding dogs of council owned corporations those massive undeserved salaries.

      It is fascinating to consider however, what a competent and enlightened government that actually was concerned about the economy would do. Pretty sure it wouldn't be endless support for speculators and banks.

      • Pat 2.3.1

        The rates take is unimpacted by property values …but i agree with the rest of your statement….their competence is certainly in question….but then they have little competition on that front.

        • Foreign waka

          Rates are going up at a rate of 5% and more. In the time I lived in my house I have had an increase of my pay at best pa 2-4%. Right now its going negative as REAL inflation bites but my pay is frozen. Rates in the same time increased by 5.7% pa. (in real terms)

          Now, I don't know but for me this looks like behaviour you see from those online fraudsters, just deducting small amounts regularly, bleeding the account owner dry but get rich in the process.

          Meanwhile, we are being told that the outdated sewer system, for which we have paid maintenance for decades, is broken and there is no money. Hahahah, yeah the money is in the extraordinary pay packets of the ones making false statements. Now we hear its global warming that causes the stink. Oh my lord save us from those tabloid reporters.

          • Pat

            Yes rates have increased above the (offical) rate of inflation for years but that is unconnected to property values.

            As to the lack of maintenance that situation is only going to become increasingly unaffordable…not only do we need to replace/maintain the existing infrastructure we also need to expand it…an exponential growth situation that cannot be supported in either monetary or resource terms…..and something that everyone wilfully averts their gaze from.

            • Foreign waka

              So we pay above inflation increases to cover maintenance of waste water, supply of drinking water, infrastructure and let me mention public transport to make sure the core need is covered. The money is collected and if you don't pay you can loose your house (!) And yet we, the payer have no protection and council seem to be not accountable.

              Here is my question. Are NZlanders able to sue the council down to their personal enrichment for taking the hard earned cash called rates of those actually working but splashing it about on pet projects and themselves?

              I feel there ought to be balance in the justice system. If a person can be evicted for not paying rates than this person must have protection under the same law to have these expectation met without having to fork out more and more money. Since all is commercialized, lets work with that and use the consumer guaranties act.

              • mikesh

                The problem of the high salaries of CEO's is not restricted to local councils. It is endemic throughout the economy.

              • mikesh

                The problem of high CEO remuneration is not just restricted to local bodies. It is endemic throughout the economy.

              • Graeme

                A lot of rates rising faster than inflation is that councils have been reluctant to spend what is really required to maintain their assets and grow those assets to cater for future growth. This has been going on almost forever. Very few get elected to Council saying they are going to raise rates to spend more on infrastructure. And then there's strong lobbies that campaign on reducing rates, and the effect is further reductions in maintenance further exasperating the situation.

                So maintenance and upgrades get deferred until things break, and then cost considerably more to fix.

                Districts that are growing strongly like Queenstown and Central Otago are able to get very large contributions from developers, along with a growing capital value, so are able to have relatively low rates keep sort of ahead of maintenance and growth. Older, declining districts, say Gore or Oamaru, generally have high rates and struggle with infrastructure.

                • Foreign waka

                  To be honest, I really don't have any sympathy for the council member that over the years have had salaries that made your eyes water and spending rates on things like silly signage to "promote" a city. To top it all off, they all have subsidized pensions and I am 100% sure none of them have difficulties paying their rates. So no, the money paid was not theirs to spend in the way they did. Full stop. Consumers need protection from these spurious expenditures at the cost of those who can be evicted if they don't pay up.

                  As for those special interest people who are so important that the council has to listen to them, perhaps the rates need to be pegged against income, including trusts rather than property value. So those who influence to get their way on what is so important will have to pay for it.
                  Because obviously planning is not in the councils vocabulary. Even people on an unemployment benefit are being asked to go to a budgeting services.

        • Stuart Munro

          The rates take is unimpacted by property values

          Don't you believe it. If property values were flat 5% rises in rates year after year would have the councils facing numerous acrimonious public meetings at best, more likely the Alan Parsons treatment.

          • Pat

            Can not agree….indeed Christchurch has had 8% rates increases year on year post quakes and the property market has been one of the most restrained in the country….no rebellion there, only the standard grizzling

            Rates are determined by the council budget spread across the ratings base…what the properties are worth is irrelevant except in their relationship to each other.

            • Stuart Munro

              The quakes make a better excuse than naked greed – and there's a fair amount of fatigue in Chch, as well as anger focused on other governance failures – Southern Response etc.

      • Phillip ure 2.3.2

        our whole system is set up to service the banksters..

        the speculators play that system..'cos they can..

        but for the average citizen…they are in thrall to those banksters…for most of their lives ..and for what .?

        it is seriously fucked up..

        sucking in an inordinate share of the economy..

        nationalise them..and reconfigure how we do the whole set-up..

        focussed more on the needs of the people..(socialise housing/end poverty etc etc..)

        and no longer on the banksters..

        get their boots off our throats..

        • vto

          yep, more and more of our society becomes 'financialised' and hence subjected to an interest charge.

          we should look seriously at the reasons debt and interest are illegal and immoral in other societies. Most people have absolutely no idea this idea even exists.

          Down the spiraling drainhole we go – of this there is little doubt

          • Phillip ure

            we should also look at those countries that have long-term stable housing values ..

            find out how do they do that .

            then do that here…

            end this giant crapshoot/ponzi scheme…

            the people are the losers here..

            ..and this must change..

        • mikesh

          We should stop the private banking sector creating money. Then, if they wanted to lend money they would have borrow on fixed term from the private sector.

          We should also prevent fractional reserve lending.

    • Treetop 3.1

      Trump is in his own bubble just worrying about his law suits. It appears as if Covid does not require his attention as Commander in Chief.

      Just under 6 weeks of Trump's self interest being a priority and then his ridiculous term is up. I am looking forward to the inauguration of Biden on 20 January 2021.

  2. Stuart Munro 4

    The Positive Pixie seems to have taken some PR advice at last, from someone other than the Boagywoman even.

    I guess her bestest shadow cabinet colleagues couldn't tell her.

  3. logie97 5

    Health department's Covid Tracer.

    I scan at every possible retail, or club, visit and it annoys the hell out of me to watch so many fellow citizens breeze in and out of these places without a care.

    So now I want to go one better and have the Bluetooth option to improve the apps monitoring of my whereabouts.

    Yet, an iPhone 6 is not "Smartphone" enough apparently we need to have the latest operating system.

    Now not all of us can afford to upgrade our handsets at a whim. And I would suggest that goes for most of the target market – elderly and middle aged.

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