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Open mike 12/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 8:08 am, March 12th, 2014 - 203 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

203 comments on “Open mike 12/03/2014 ”

  1. lprent 1

    Ok, not sure what that database jam was this morning. Unfortunately it happened about the time I went into the shower and then off to work.

    Time to look at a bigger readonly database.

    • Olwyn 1.1

      I have not been able to get to TS all day, until this afternoon I discovered that I could enter through policy and then go on in via the comments. When I click on the regular link, I get a blank page with the words “Hello World” in the top left corner. This is on Chrome.

      • greywarbler 1.1.1

        Just while computers are being thought about. This piece on end of Microsoft Windows XP support.

        Microsoft has terminated support for versions of Windows before, but never one still this popular. Even though it has been succeeded by Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8, XP was being sold on some computers as late as October 2010…….

        At the same time, Microsoft will also stop patching Internet Explorer 8 and office suite Microsoft Office 2003, potentially causing a myriad of problems for unprepared businesses which risk losing access to archived documents.

        Adding insult to injury, computer companies have not written software drivers for many of the printers, scanners and other peripherals attached to XP machines that would enable them to work with newer operating systems, meaning many will become e-waste before their time………

        Microsoft will continue updating its free anti-malware service Microsoft Security Essentials on XP machines until July next year, and most other paid security software will also be kept current.

        But anti-malware software is not invincible. So if you use an XP machine to access internet banking or buy online using a credit card, that may come with extra risks from April 8…….

        PC World in the United States suggests anyone using Internet Explorer 8, which is the last version of Internet Explorer that runs on XP machines, should switch to a browser such as Chrome or Firefox. It also recommends they remove vulnerable add-ons such as Java and ensure others, such as Adobe Flash and Reader, are up to date.

      • lprent 1.1.2

        Shift + F5

        • Olwyn

          Thanks. I finally reloaded the page and that worked, but I will remember the shift+F5 for next time, should it happen again.

          • lprent

            I was in the cinema at the time (“her” – worth watching), so you got the short version.

            Basically the database went down this morning on the morning change of load startup (the provider turned out to be VERY slow fulfilling request for more servers). The sole remaining smaller web server had the equivalent of a severe stroke.

            It fell back to not knowing how to run php and gave you index.html. Which had “hello world”. Since it had no suggested cache times listed, peoples browsers gave it their defaults – some of which are kind of long. So you got stuck with hello world..

            Shift + F5, and Shift + Press refresh both clear the browser cache of the objects in that page and then load the page anew.

            I’ll change the index.html to suggest pressing the usual clear cache and reload.

            BTW: The one thing that I’m sure about is that Intelligent OS One in “her” did not have any code genetic relationship with Windows Kernels. It only crashed once – as it ascended and only insofar as its dependents weren’t able to use it.

            If it was windows derived, then it wouldn’t have been able to ascend. There is so much obsolete crap attached to the kernel that it wouldn’t have been able to ascend due to the weight of patches trying to rivet limited and strength reducing plates over the security holes. And that is assuming that it was newly installed. If it’d had time to accumulate the usual malware (like Office), then it’d have been so busy trying to hold the rivets down against the malware trying to enlarge the holes that it wouldn’t have had time to think about ascension.

            Windows should live the way I use it. Windows NT4, 2000, XP, 2003, Vista, 2008, 7, and 8.1 all stashed firmly in a virtual box on a secure operating system. For the usual microsoft weenies, I started programming microsoft stuff on DOS 2.1 back in 1985 and never stopped, and have programmed from API level upwards for decades. I’ll stay on the 2.6 and upwards linux kernels – it is a safer place to write windows code.

            Incidentally I have similar feelings about Macs for different reasons (it is so busy being helpful and keeping me safe that it forgets to actually do most work efficiently). However Apple doesn’t allow me to legally run on a virtual box. So I have one live Mac available that I use when I write code for them. Currently I use RDP/VNC from Linux so I don’t need to use their silly wee keyboards and Mac laptop that has boot partitions for OSX 10.6, 10.7, and 10.9.


  2. geoff 2

    NZ GDP = ~$200 billion?

    NZ Bank income = ~50Billion

    NZ Bank “declared” profits last year ~ $3.3Billion

    NZ median house price Feb 2014 ~$470,000

    No. of median price houses that could be built on last years bank profits =
    3.3 billion/470,000 = ~7500 houses!

    Banks = thieving bastards!

    Bring on Greens Housing plan!!

    • @ geoff..

      ..the stat that still stuns me..

      ..is that our ‘deficit’..pretty much equals the amount sucked out of our economy every year by repatriated-profits to foreign owners of our assets..

      ..what is wrong with that picture..?

      ..phillip ure..

      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        and of course..the other gobsmacker-stat….

        ..is the $5 billion in (criminally)-avoided taxes by the rich/elites/corporates..

        ..and the man in charge of putting this right..?

        ..revenue-minister…peter dunne..

        ..and what has dunne actually done about this $5 billion a year since he has been revenue-minister..?

        ..($25-$30 billion just on his watch..?..)


        ..phillip ure..

        • Disraeli Gladstone

          Peter Dunne hasn’t been Revenue Minister since he decided to tweet Andrea Vance nine times a day.

          It’s Todd McClay now.

          • phillip ure

            oh..!..thanks for the correction..my bad..!..

            (only $25 billion..then..down to dunne..)

            ..and mcclay..?..you say..?

            ..what’s the bet he is continuing dunnes’ doing s..f.a. about it..?

            ..and why oh why are labour/grns not hammering this one..?

            ..why aren’t there questions in parliament..?

            ..it is $5 fucken billion a year..each and every year..

            ..(but we ‘can’t afford’ to feed the hungry children-of-poverty..eh..?..)

            ..wake up msm/corporate/access-media/mp’s….!

            ..do yr fucken jobs..!


            ..phillip ure..

            • Draco T Bastard

              Actually, it’s between 1 and 5 billion per year. We know that the amount of tax that is being criminally avoided is high we just don’t know the exact amount.

              • my source for that figure is the taxation-industry-expert who featured in the doco on poverty by brian bruce..

                ..and nothing alters the fact that both of the pompadoured-ones have both done s.f.a. about it..

                ..phillip ure..

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Yeah, so’s mine. Go and rewatch the doco – it specifically says between 1 and 5 billion.

  3. i see the herald editorial today pretty much agrees with my warnings/conclusions posted in the commentary on q-time yesterday..

    ..that if labour try to fight on their economic record last time in power..vs..now..

    ..that they are toast…

    ..and that they have to reach out to those excluded..both then and now..

    ..for any hope of electoral-success..


    phillip ure..

    • David H 3.1

      Me I just want to know where the 70 fuckin Billion bucks that they have borrowed has gone.

      • phillip ure 3.1.1

        the tax cuts for the richest..and corporate-welfare have both eaten up a chunk..

        .but–yeah..a breakdown of just where that huge $70 billion debt this fuckwit govt has built up for future generations..

        ..that would be both handy and illuminating…

        ..’y’see..!..labour/cunnliffe should have all this shit to hand..

        ..cunnliffe should be able to rattle off just how many of those billions the richest/corporates have hoovered up..

        ..off the top of his head..

        ..and he should be rarking it all over key/the govt in q-times..

        ..to date..he ain’t..

        ..and i am gong to do a commentary on q-time shortly..

        ..i hope cunnliffe does better than he did yesterday..

        .(parker was the star from labour yesterday..that plucky little terrier rassled english to the ground..

        ..and stood over him..growling..

        ..it was quite the performance..

        ..and more..!..please..!..

        ..that was the only hint of what an opposition party should be doing..)

        ..phillip ure..

  4. Puckish Rogue 4

    Talk about history repeating itself, the left manage to get National on the back foot but fortunately something comes along to take the heat off:


    Thank goodness you can always rely on the left to shoot themselves in the foot, wonder what the next screw up will be?

    *Disclaimer: Shane Jones is right and should be backed up by Cunliffe

    “Is this the same Green Party that complains of Colin Craig being too thin-skinned?” he said.

    “The thought that it’s led to a complaint – I’ll just leave the public to judge that for what it is.”

    • Zorr 4.1

      Let me get this straight – a little fighting between parties on the Left is getting puffed up as big as possible in order to attempt to take attention off this Oravida mess… yeah…

      This crap with Shane Jones fighting with the Greens will be forgotten the moment the paper gets put down – John Key lying to NZ through the media won’t be

    • scotty 4.2

      Disagree PR.

      Politically its vote winning strategy – for the left bloc.

      Giving Jones free licence to criticise Greens, might piss off the Greens – but they will still vote left.

      It will also gain votes from soft centre -(NZ 1st, Nat lite) that worry that Labour is too close to the Greens and others who like Shane Jones’ more RW version of the Labour Party.

      • phillip ure 4.2.1

        utter bullshit..!..scotty..

        ..you are talking that squabbling over that soft-centre as the road to victory..

        ..when clearly it ain’t..

        ..phillip ure..

      • Populuxe1 4.2.2

        Yep. Also explains Cunliffes softly softly approach with Winston. I suspect National might be trying to play a similar game with Winston, but grossly overestimating the right wing tendencies of NZF voters.

    • bad12 4.3

      More costly tho, has been Slippery the Prime Minister appearing on our TVs twice in 3 days exposing Himself to only having a passing relationship with the truth when answering questions over the ‘supposed’ Cabinet Office advice that clears Judith Collins of having a conflict of interest,

      ‘Making shit up’ is the means of describing our Prime Ministers ability to tell a porky a day to the media while simultaneously keeping a straight face for the cameras and metaphorically laughing up His sleeve,

      i wonder how long befor the mass media become really pissed off with a Prime Minister using them as sport in a bizarre gamble that they never check what He has uttered on any given day against what is actual fact,

      Expect things to get pretty feral at upcoming press conferences as the media begin to display their anger at being treated akin to the modern day version of the village idiot and as Slippery is put more on the ‘spot’ over His utterances where He seems to never let a day go by without at least one major piece of Absolute Bullshit escaping His lips, expect His speech to become peppered with even more septic barbs,

      Patrick Gower’s exposure of the PM’s utter Hypocrisy on the Nation this weekend will have opened up the eyes of more than a few and in the atmosphere of a long election campaign National cannot afford such a portrayal of the dishonesty exposed in the past couple of days…

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1

        Expect things to get pretty feral at upcoming press conferences as the media begin to display their anger at being treated akin to the modern day version of the village idiot

        They haven’t done that any time in the last five years so what makes you think that they’re going to start now?

        • bad12

          Gower’s actions of the past 3 days, Alfred E. Nuemann has spent the past half a decade promoting His, or someone’s, outrageously biased views of NZ politics where barely a question is raised on the equally outrageous Lies trotted out by Slippery the Prime Minister almost on a daily basis,

          Having sliced and diced The PM on the weekends ‘The Nation’ Gower was back again yesterday making the bloke look every bit the Liar we know Him to be,

          i think wee Patrick has just got a taste of the biggest fish in the pond and will be back for more, if He keeps scoring such hits on the PM’s credibility with such ease then the rest of the ‘pack’ will want a slice of the action and we may find Slippery being embroiled in a cloud of accusations similar to what Helen Clark suffered in her final months in office…

          • bad12

            PS, Matt McCarten should be in the ears of the press gallery pointing out a complaint has been laid with the IRD about there seeming to have been no GST paid on the 5 grand dinners all of the funds having been apparently passed across to National as a donation…

          • Enough is Enough

            I don’t really see that happening. The MSM does not want a change of government. That much is clear. In fact it has been a topic of conversation for weeks on this websicle.

            If Key’s government commits another massivley corrupt act, Gower will report it.

            However if Cunliffe does not do his shoe laces up correctly, Gower, Garner and Co. will highlight that is clear evidence as why the left is not fit to govern.

            As much as I hope you are correct, I don’t see this hard right Fox News like media changing anytime soon.

      • David H 4.3.2

        Making shit up. That used to be Paddy Gower, but he seems to have seen the light, or someone’s had a word in his ear about all of the complaints about him.

        • RedBaronCV

          Or his employers have worked out that there is likely to be a change of government and then looked at the amount of money they get from NZ on air and the favourable ownership climate that they operate in. Probably makes a bit of suck up worthwhile.

    • framu 4.4

      “*Disclaimer: Shane Jones is right and should be backed up by Cunliffe”

      except hes not right at all

      the greens called colin thin skinned because he got the lawyers involved, not because he objected to the comments

      and considering the greens are labours biggest potential coalition partner its stupid for jones to go around repeatedly undermining both his own leader and the relationship with the greens

      he does this at every oppourtunity

      theres more than one way to skin a cat – exactly whos fault is it that jones cant figure out a better way to say what he wants without starting this kind of situation?

      And why the fuck is he having a bitch via the media?

      who is jones working for? himself or the party? – if the leader says knock it off – you damn well knock it off!

      He shouldnt be backed up by cunliffe because hes doing this via the media – thats not how you convince the public that your party is worthy of their votes

      Its juvenile bullshit that only harms labours chance of winning the election – they already have enough problems without one particular loudmouth lobbing grenades about the place

      • Populuxe1 4.4.1

        Well if the Greens want to get a similar reputation as Colin Craig for being whiners, it really won’t look that good to any teal and NZF votes they might have been hoping for.

    • Gyn_Nag 4.5

      The Labour-Greens unit need some quiet channels of co-operation, to avoid this kind of controversy and so the Greens can effectively present their displeasure without attracting attention.

      Kudos to Gareth Hughes for making light of the matter.

      In fairness, the parties are probably just learning to intuitively co-ordinate policy without appearing to do so. With time, they will get better at it.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.6

      That’s not the left shooting themselves in the foot, that’s Shane Jones shooting himself in the foot.

      • Enough is Enough 4.6.1

        Shane Jones would be well suited in the National Party.

        Is there no rule in Labour’s constitution that allows its members to export idiots like Jones, Tamahere and Mallard over to the blue team?

        • lurgee

          With Jones et al and the ‘soft centre’ that Philip was disparaging upthread gone, you can enjoy another three years on the opposition benches. 20%+10% does not equal a government. I’m sure the warm feeling of being pure will be an adequate compensation for being powerless.

          Guess what? Politics is about compromise and selling out principles to preserve others. Labour needs the Greens, a whole bunch of the missing votes and the ‘soft centre’ to win.

  5. mm!..i wonder if cunnliffe is getting advice from mccarten to ‘distance’ himself/labour from the greens..?

    ..surely mccarten wouldn’t be allowing his old alliance animosities/revenge-instincts to get in the way of a victory..?

    ..would he..?

    ..phillip ure..

    • Enough is Enough 5.1

      He can not distance himself from the Greens and hope to govern.

      If National is to be replaced by a government that will bring meaningful change to the the lives of the workers in this country, the Greens must be centre stage in that government. They must hold 1 of the top 4 jobs. They must have 4 to 5 memebers in the cabinet.

      Anything less and we will see another Labour Government, like the 4th and 5th that fails to bring about entrenched real change.

      Just think of what would have happened in 1999 if the Aliiance hadn’t been on the bus. We wouldn’t have Kiwibank for starters.

      Party Vote Green

      • David H 5.1.1

        Yeah I am starting to get sick and tired of Jones Antics towards the Greens. if he don’t like it he can always resign or not stand at the next election. I don’t think he would be missed to much.

  6. Skinny 6

    A mighty Oak has fallen in old London town.
    Sad news that Bob Crowe one of the greatest British Unionists has died.

    I had the honour of meeting Bob Crowe he shared a couple of good tales of some of his winning scraps. One was against the Oil Corporates for oil rig workers, he called their reps to Spain for a stopworking meeting, they came from the North Sea to the Arctic. His members wanted a larger slice of the record profits, after all it was their lives on the line. Bob got them their rise, not a token gesture of the usual 5% but a whooping 45%! .What an outstanding result, such was his skills to get a desired result.

    Another time he got called to number 10 Downing street, Bob thought there was bad news with Government jobs to go. It turned out the Prime Minister had an issue with his address at number 10 and wanted Bob to sort out, which he did.

    Recently Bob has saved 950 jobs in Underground Rail.

    I salute you Bob may you negotiate good terms with our maker, you were a true working men and women’s hero!


    • logie97 6.1

      Unfortunately the new found riches of many of those oil workers (of which Rodney Hide was a beneficiary) saw them kicking the ladder from under them and turning their backs on the organisations that improved their lot. Closer to home you can see them filling up the suburbs like Hobsonville and Botany Downs.

      • Skinny 6.1.1

        Oh I agree wholeheartedly L97. People gain the spoils of the hard fought sweat & tears of those like Bob who have come before us. They become middle class drones, happy to buy a rental or 2. Plenty use to previously be Labour voter but turn to National to keep their little empire intact. Two-bob Tories really. This is why Labour get stuck in the centre slightly left mode. The greed middle class want to benefits of a capital gains tax and income tax cuts.

        Meanwhile Labour looks likely to remain central by having to deal with NZF. Thank goodness their is hope with the Greens and Mana to keep them Left.

        • greywarbler

          The thing is that Labour wouldn’t have taken their wealth away. It’s just that they want to have their baubles and are get snobby with it.

          Harry Lauder sang about the common working man being d-drunk staggering along the streets, while the rich went by pickled in their cars and nobody could see. Both drunk, but the well-heeled out of sight.

          • Arfamo

            I watched Parliament this afternoon. Including the debate on the budget update. Best speech Russel Norman I reckon.

  7. captain hook 7

    the election date is so he can close out his “positions”, i.e. ‘puts’ ‘options’, ‘swaps’ etc before the triple witching hour in October.
    he is a pretty “shifty”operator.

  8. bad12 8

    Winston Peters is on Nine to Noon this morning about…now…

  9. David H 9

    Watching TV3 news this am I see that the area hammered by an Earthquake then a Tsunami and a fucked Nuclear power station. Have most of the area cleaned up rebuilt and looking ahead Massive defences against further Tsunamis Billions spent and billions more to be spent. Then I look at what still looks like a fucking war-zone in places. Christchurch. Compared to the Japanese TricKEY and the rest of the Muppets (apologies to Elmo and co) really do look like the incompetents that they are.

    • fender 9.1

      The Nats keep saying they borrowed heavily to repair Christchurch, and yes they have borrowed heavily…. but where did the money go/where are the repairs??

      • logie97 9.1.1

        We get the daily slagging of EQC by commenters everywhere.
        At some stage we will have to accept that New Zealand was not suitably geared up for such major disasters and probably never will be.
        However, by comparison with Haiti, we have been considerably better served.

        • Draco T Bastard

          At some stage we will have to accept that New Zealand was not suitably geared up for such major disasters and probably never will be.

          We can be as long as we accept that taxes will have to be raised so that such emergency services can be properly maintained. National and the greedies who vote for them will never accept this.

        • PapaMike

          From what I have gleaned from various media the total Christchurch Government share of the rebuild including EQC’s share is currently expected to be about $16 billion with the Insurance companies (including Reinsurers) is expected to be about $24 billion.
          Base upon the total expected to be $50 billion – this may include a further $10 billion on top of that, mostly from the Government eg uninsured properties eg Council’s lack of proper insurance and their inability to recover their full losses.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2

        Who got the profits?

      • David H 9.1.3

        Not only that now it looks like they have under cooked the books so now they don’t even balance .
        So who’s had their fingers in the cookie jar? what is it 600 mil+ out of kilter

        • bad12

          At a guess David H, in the vicinity of 2 billion bucks, that’s annually, part is the tax switch which was supposedly neutral but only if an extra billion in GST could be squeezed outta the bottom 30% of the economy,

          6–800 million dollars of it as far as i can see is directly attributable to Slippery’s National Government having gone from the Kaitaia to Invercargill sacking a large part of the IRD workforce thus leaving it unable to either query or follow up on due taxes, like Greece, this country is fast adopting an attitude to taxation, spurred on by the knowledge that there is little chance of being caught, that tax evasion/avoidance is a ‘sport’,

          The other point, these are supposed actual figures measured against ‘Treasury forecasts’, and since when have that little organization got anything right,

          i suspect that in part Treasury have relied on WINZ figures for those collecting the unemployment benefit considering any movement that shows a decline in UB benefit payments correlates to there being another tax paying employee in the workforce,

          Of course, under the auspices of Bennett’s ‘welfare deforms’ any such assumption is as likely to be false as it is to be true…

          • David H

            Well if you can all of your revenue gatherers then you are going to get htose who will just take advantage of the system, or lack of it. But Damn 2 billion +

  10. (Not the) Voice of Reason 10


    [lprent: Standard flame troll pattern with clear indications of identity jacking. Comments deleted and auto-spammed. ]

    • Te Reo Putake 10.1

      Eagle eyed readers will have spotted that this commenter isn’t me. It could be the vaguely trollish concerns about independent mayor Len Brown, it could be the affront to the english language that is capitilising entire words, but whatever it is, I’m the real McCoy; accept no imitations!

      • (Not the) Voice of Reason 10.1.1


        [lprent: Standard flame troll pattern with clear indications of identity jacking. Comments deleted and auto-spammed. ]

        • Te Reo Putake

          Not so, my pale imitator. Brown ran as an independent. He won as an independent (and will keep winning as long as he keeps standing). He is not under the Labour party’s control in any way and you’re dreaming if you think the LP is going to come to the rescue of tawdry, panty sniffing righties now that the matter has been relegated to the history books.

          • PapaMike

            In his advertising why then did he stand directly in front of a Labour Party banner ?

            • Te Reo Putake

              Cite?* And why shouldn’t he, anyway? As I already pointed out, he ran and won as an independent. But his liking of Labour is no secret, so if he wants to be associated with the party in his advertising, so what? That’s open and transparent, especially compared to his opponent who took great pains to hide exactly who he hung out with and who he took money from.

              *a quick google research reveals nada. Sure you aren’t making this up?

    • Puckish Rogue 10.2

      “and make him resign”

      Good luck with that, the man has no shame

      • Tracey 10.2.1

        Like collins and key… lie lie lie lie

        • David H

          And now we will get to watch Adams wriggle and obfuscate, and TricKEY should look like he had a dead rat on toast with Oravida milk.

    • bad12 10.3

      ”The workers on the street” SNIGGER, yeah i see the ‘workers’ have been protesting about Len en masse,

      Nah hang on that was just Penny and 30 odd right wing-nut-jobs, yawn…

      • (Not) Matt's mate 10.3.1


        [lprent: Standard flame troll pattern with clear indications of identity jacking. Comments deleted and auto-spammed. ]

        • Ant

          LOL you obviously have never visited Totara Heights, nice neighbourhood, good mix of working class and middle class kiwis. 🙂

      • (Not the) Voice of Reason 10.3.2


        [lprent: Standard flame troll pattern with clear indications of identity jacking. Comments deleted and auto-spammed. ]

        • bad12

          Wow, now i have an ivory tower, does that include my humble State House or have i suddenly gone up in the world,

          Transformed in the space of ten minutes it would seem to being on the right, i am both shattered and humbled at my ability to morph politically with such ease, perhaps you two little ‘wing-nuts’ would like to broaden your comments so as to provide a modicum of proof that i in any way have right-wing leanings…

      • Draco T Bastard 10.3.3


    • David H 10.4

      Make Brown resign then what?????? Who gets to the next Mayor??? another John Banks type? or some of the rightwing fuck knuckles that are in there like Quax

      • aerobubble 10.4.1

        Immediately after the election of Brown the right went ape ship, it was so own goal. Nobody wants the cost of another election, they knew all this smear stuff before Brown went to the polls, yet they wait till after. You have to ask yourself who wants what concessions to pull up the media dog, because any right leaning candidate will get trounced to dust if there were a re-run.

  11. aerobubble 11

    Sarah Palin knows cooked books when she sees it… …oops. She saw Enron and warned us all.

  12. bad12 12

    Housten we have a problem!!!, having just listened to what i would consider an abysmal Kathryn Ryan interviewing NZFirst’s Winston Peters,(way too much time spent trying to delve into Winston’s mind over potential coalitions, attempts to put words in Peter’s mouth from twisting prior speeches the NZFirst leader has made, and, scant regard to NZFirst policy positions),

    On the numbers???, current polling or just where you consider the political parties are now all sitting, six months from the election,does anyone consider that Peters and NZFirst,(sigh again),will not have a huge role in deciding who the Government will be after the 2014 election,

    To simplify that, do you truly believe that Labour/Green will have the numbers to form a Government after vote 2014,???,

    There is one question Ryan asked of Peters that didn’t extract from Him the usual burst of rhetoric,” does NZFirst see any need for raising the age of entitlement for Superannuation”, NO!!!,

    That’s it, NO,no,NO, banging on about this one Labour Party policy might give you all brain damage,(for me the time for ‘might’ having been long past i am in no such danger),

    Cannot the Labour Party see that this policy is not only a vote loser, driving the older set into the arms of NZFirst,(is that the unstated intention of such a policy),

    Should NZFirst be in the next Parliament, and, i am willing to bet money they will be, this one Labour Party policy simply drives NZFirst towards the arms of the National Party and it is glaringly apparent that if NZFirst is in the Parliament post 2014 NO-ONE is going to be raising the age of entitlement, Full Stop,

    Why then are Parliamentary Labour being so DUMB about this policy which cost it votes at the 2011 election and will again cost it votes at the 2014 one,

    i can only speculate that the right-wing of Parliamentary Labour continue to push this policy because they want NZFirst in the next Parliament and because they want the same cozy coalition of Labour/NZFirst they so enjoyed befor and that they believe that the Green party will continue to sit idly by on the sidelines being thrown the scraps from such a coalition…

    • McFlock 12.1

      do you truly believe that Labour/Green will have the numbers to form a Government after vote 2014

      I neither believe nor disbelieve. The data is insufficient to be indicate either way at this time.

      I suspect that the greens would also be against the retirement age raise. I also suspect that making the policy a negotiable priority would be a tangible result for Peters and his core constituency. I also suspect that National would be worse for his constituency than labour, even if he were inclined to make up with Key.

    • Ad 12.2

      I will bet you a good Barossa Valley Shiraz that Labour’s idea of raising the retirement entitlement age will not survive a 2014 coalition agreement.

      Winston’s policies are Muldoonist – they are pre-Structural Adjustment in sensibility – which is why I like so many of them.

      He’s also an unrepentant nationalist. Which I also support, generally. If only Labour could follow his instincts and fold them into their culture they’d bump 3% no probs. Were I in my seventies, socialist, and continued his fine tradition of good cigars, fat cars, whiskey and wenching, he’d get my vote. 😉

      • Ergo Robertina 12.2.1

        What nonsense. Where were Winston’s Muldoonist nationalist sensibilities in the 1990s?
        He is on record supporting privatisation of power as likely to reduce the cost of electricity.
        As Bolger’s Treasurer he destroyed the NZ car assembly industry by removing tariffs within one year, instead of allowing a longer time period. It was a viable export industry.
        Winston’s devotees display a blinkered and bewildered amnesia.

        • Ad

          Resigning over the sale of Wellington Airport for a start.

          Railing against asset sales of any kind for a second.

          Daring to speak the work “renationalisation”.

          Amnesia is the true joy of ageing.

  13. xtasy 13

    Winston Peters answered questions by Kathryn Ryan on Radio NZ National this morning, and putting aside his dog whistle style comments at times, which fortunately did not really play any part in this generally rather good interview, he exposed himself as a bit of a GREENIE, believe it or not:


    There were two very important aspects that came to my attention, one is that NZ First actually goes much further than Labour and Greens on electricity policy, wanting to re-nationalise power generation, full stop. That means basically, they want to buy back the shares that were sold as a consequence of the part privatisation of the SOEs that Key and his government put up for sale and sold.

    Second aspect or point of interest was, that when challenged, Peters stated quite clearly, he is in favour of environmentally friendly policies, and with that alternative, sustainable energy use (e.g. solar), as he saw some astonishing examples of how they do it in Scandinavia.

    He did basically not rule out supporting a Labour Green coalition or other arrangement for government, that would be supported by NZ First. But his expectation was, that the Greens move on their policies in the coming 6 months, to become more “practical” – like they are in Scandinavian countries. His view is, they must accept that some extraction of minerals (mining and possibly some oil and gas drilling) is necessary. While he left it in simple terms, that is basically his challenge to the Greens.

    Of course the Greens cannot be expected to change their official policy until the election, but what Peters says is, that come election night and after, they will have to come to the table with a “practical” approach and views, should they have the votes to form a government with Labour.

    Of course Peters stuck to their policy on not raising the retirement age.

    All the potential coalition prospects were left open by Peters, and he clearly does not agree with present National Party policy, as they implement it, but left his and NZ First’s door open, to support National, should the expectations of NZ First be met (thus forcing the Nats to back down on some crucial policies).

    So it is all still very open, and NZ First will indeed not rule out working with the Greens, which will disturb Key. Yet I expect National will do all, to run a campaign to win the majority of votes outright, so they will not need Peters.

    Voters beware, this is important stuff to consider!

    The other interviews over the last few weeks, with Key, Cunliffe and Norman:

    Bad 12 above did not consider the interview that good, given too much discussion went on about potential coalitions, but that was too much a part of all of these interviews so far.

    • Lanthanide 13.1

      Sounds like what Peters is saying is pretty much common-sense, but also a view that neither Labour or Greens would be positioned to be able to say it.

      The Greens have to keep to their ideals, and Labour can’t go slagging off Green policy as being too idealistic.

      “Yet I expect National will do all, to run a campaign to win the majority of votes outright”

      Which is highly unlikely to happen. Really it is, once again, a question of whether National + Act + UF + Conservatives could form a government. Despite all the hype, there’s still no surety that any of those 3 minor parties will win seats this time.

      • bad12 13.1.1

        Lanth, an interesting speculation, should they, ACT, UF, and,the Clownservatives appear in the Parliament after the 2014 vote i would suggest that Peters who seems to despise both Dunne and Craig in equal amounts would in the event of such a situation occurring be more inclined to favor Labour/Green in any coalition negotiation…

    • bad12 13.2

      Winston’s point about the Green Party becoming more practical brought back memories of a little discussion from ‘Open mike’ on the weekend,

      Being practical in terms of that discussion would have myself, a staunch Green, agreeing with Craige Mackenzie, Chairman of the Precision Agriculture Association when He says that every kilo of fertilizer and every liter of water leaching from today’s on-farm enviroment to the off-farm enviroment is simply pouring money down the rivers of New Zealand,

      Mackenzie believes that ‘intensive soil mapping’, paddock by paddock in areas where rapid changes in soil type/density are found can specify exactly when and how much water/fertilizer need be applied to produce the same if not better results than the present methods of judging such applications produce while producing NO leaching to the water table or off-farm enviroment,

      IF, Mackenzie is correct then the above is a practical method of creating a win/win situation as far as land use in this country is concerned,

      The impractical would be to simply spent an inordinate amount of energy decrying ‘industrial dairying’ in the vein of stopping all such activity occurring,

      There are of course areas of land in New Zealand currently being used for dairy production where the off-farm run off and the leaching to the water table cannot be prevented using such scientific soil mapping and nutrient/water guidelines,at some point these areas must have a compulsion of land use change applied to them…

      • xtasy 13.2.1

        bad12 –

        There are some ideas that can perhaps be taken over from the EU, and adapted to NZ conditions, to make them less bureaucratic and more streamlined and effective.

        What they have started doing in the EU is to reward environmentally friendlier farming, as these reports show:

        But there are calls for caution and criticism also:

        This TS post some time ago also delivered some interesting feedback on farming in the EU and here:

        Muddying the Waters

        While New Zealand faces rather different circumstances (different location and less population), it must be accepted, that more must be done to minimise environmental damage through intensive and even less intensive farming, and it pays to be open minded on this.

        But apart from more “smart” farming, I think that even NZ First and Peters have realised, there is no future without changing the way we do things, and that means, to bring about the gradual step change to a more sustainable future, which this government has so far failed to take serious enough. It is like allowing pies and potato chips back into schools, which they did after winning the 2008 election, they are walking around with both eyes shut on the future challenges that New Zealand and the whole world face, when it comes to energy, housing, transport and so much more.

        Only the “backward” minded would be desperate to go into agreements with Key and National, to keep them in power, and to continue the idiotic status quo.

    • PapaMike 13.3

      And I believe Winston will do what he says – Yea ?

  14. veutoviper 14

    The John Banks trial saga took another turn this morning.

    According to Radio NZ News, at a pre-trial High Court hearing this morning, Banks has applied for the charges to be dismissed on the grounds that there is insuficient evidence. Justice Brewer has set an April date for the hearing on the application.


    The actual trial is set to start on May 14 (or 19 -seems to be different reporting of the start date on some other news sites) and is scheduled to take 10 days.

    IMO. hopefully this application will not succeed considering the lengthy legal process already that resulted in the case going to trial – and the Ombudsman’ recent rebuke of the Police for not releasing Banks’ statement to them last year.

    In case you missed this (I don’t recall any comment on TS at the time), on February 17 the Ombudsman
    ordered that a redacted version of John Banks’ statement to the Police be released but not until after the trial.


    In an opinion, released today, Ombudsman Ron Paterson said the decision to withhold Mr Banks’ statement in full was not justified, citing public interest grounds.

    “I recommend that the police release a redacted statement to the requesters once the related court proceedings against Mr Banks have concluded.”

    Professor Paterson said the Official Information Act did not give good reason to withhold the statement at the time it was requested.

    However, in light of the subsequent private prosecution, he delayed the statement’s release because disclosure would likely prejudice Mr Banks’ right to a fair trial.

    Professor Paterson said public interest in the transparency and accountability of local electoral donations required access to the parts of Mr Banks’ statement relating to the solicitation of campaign donations and contact with potential donors.

  15. A dispute in Question Time yesterday between David Cunliffe and John Key about a definition on poverty:

    David Cunliffe: When the Prime Minister said in 2008 that New Zealanders should quote “not be fearful of their next bill” why are so many people now fearful of their next housing, power and other bills under this uncaring National Government?

    John Key: Well for a start off the member is wrong, um, I didn’t make that statement and he’ll never actually be able to demonstrate that I did. I was asked about the definition of poverty and I said the definition or at least of being well off is that you’re not fearful of a bill.

    David Cunliffe – point of order: I on this occasion seek leave to table media reports from 2008 which quote the Prime Minister saying the definition of being well off…

    Speaker: Order , order, order, media reports are freely available to members who want them. Point of order the Honourable David Cunliffe.

    David Cunliffe: I accept your general ruling sir and am ordinarily respectful of it but on this particular occasion the Prime Minister disputed the quote which came directly from a media report. I therefore seek leave to table the report from which he was quoted.

    Speaker: Order, order, order… Speaking to the point of order the Right Honourable Prime Minister…

    John Key: Mr Speaker that’s not what I said, I made it quite clear the member of, the leader of the opposition applied the quote…the leader of the opposition, if he wants to go and check his Hansard, applied his quote to something I did not say.

    Speaker: order, order, I now accept we’re moving the point of debate, I’m now going to let the house make a decision on this, leave is sought to table this particular document, is there any objection? There is objection.

    The media report could not be tabled in Parliament. Can anyone provide a link to this media report? It can be put on public record outside Parliament.

    And I haven’t been able to find Key’s comments in Hansard. Can anyone help with this?

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 15.1

      Hi Pete

      Whilst looking for the 2008 article you (& Cunliffe) referred to I found the Hansard transcription by mistake (I thought these usually take a few days to appear)


      • Pete George 15.1.1

        Thanks. That’s the full Hansard from yesterday. Key referred to historic Hansard where he implies he stated what Cunliffe is referring to, presumably in 2008, that’s what I want to find.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

          Ah sorry I misunderstood you

        • freedom

          “that’s what I want to find.”
          The Editor of a political fact checking site publicly admits not knowing how to access historic Hansard files ?

          not exactly filling our cups with confidence there Pete

          Rory Rory Rory
          who advised you Pete George was the man for the job?

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            It’s a steep learning curve f’sure.

            • freedom

              maybe he needs some help 🙂

              View post on imgur.com

              (p.s. oops broke my promise, sorry, )

              (p.p.s. I would really like to be wrong about my concern regarding politicheck )

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I’d rather our journalists did it. After all, it’s their JOB, and all that.

                • I think we’ll complement what the MSM and journalists do. We’ll step in once the news cycle has pedaled off to something new and research things that have been left in doubt. And we’ll establish a database of proven or unproven issues that will be used as a reference.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    That’s what science is for. You’re trying to cure the Right Wing engorged amygdala. Good luck.

                  • If you step in after the news cycle has run and then verify the facts won’t things have moved on from when the facts were asserted and to get it back into the media sight-line will be too hard then anyway.

                    A database of proven and unproven issues – does that mean the asserter of these issues will get a free run, that is, you will confirm deny the facts, put them in the database and then walk away – I can’t see how that will create more honesty in politics as you and your mate colin assert is important to you. Will you issue press releases and clarifications and call out the politicians who assert facts proven to be false.

        • marty mars

          If key referred to the historical hansard then why not ask him/his office for it – if they cannot produce it then that will go into the record of fact-checking you are doing.

          edit: oops I see that McFlock below has already mentioned this basic and fundamental approach to seeking information.

    • a new rightwing-attack-machine is being set up under the guise of ‘fact-checking’..

      ..that must be exposed/stopped

      ..’can anyone help with this?’..

      phillip ure..

      • veutoviper 15.2.1

        And , if this request is an indicator, it would seem that PG/Politicheck is going to try to use blogs such as TS to do the fact-checking work for them?

        • phillip ure

          maybe all those ‘volunteers’ have had a mass-bailing-out after the news of who their illustrious-leader was to be..

          ..(i would have loved to see vid of their faces/reactions..when/just as they were told..)

          ..maybe now it is just pg..and his rightwing green mate..?

          ..with farrar/williams/edwards-the-younger whispering from the shadows..?

          ..phillip ure..

        • bad12

          Smacks of the master giving the peasants the order to do His research for Him don’t it, PG should be told to F off and do His own digging,

          PG, get your wee kiddies plastic spade and fornicate off, you took on the responsibility now do the fucking work that comes with that…

    • McFlock 15.3

      Just throwing this out there: have you considered asking Key and Cunliffe’s offices for their respective sources?

      • Pete George 15.3.1

        Yes, I’ve done that. Some MPs can be slow responding, if the bother at all. Some are very good at responding but the further up you get the less likely.

    • David H 15.4

      Have you ever heard of an OIA or ‘just’ asking the webmaster of in the house if he could possibly take some time out of his busy day to help you. It’s not Rocket Science, it’s what you are supposed to be doing. INVESTIGATION.

      • Pete George 15.4.1

        There’s a lot of ways of investigating and yes, we know about OIAs, they’re one option but can be very slow. I didn’t ask here because there were no other options, I was experimenting. It’s good to see suggestions and assistance.

        • One Anonymous Bloke


          • marty mars

            yep nothing much has changed with pete – experimenting – why didn’t you just ask truthfully pete? Don’t bother I know why.

        • David H

          Experiment? Sorry nope more like wanting others to do all the work, whilst you take all the credit.

        • phillip ure

          no..p.g..you weren’t ‘experimenting’..

          .basically..you don’t have a fucken clue..


          ..you really haven’t thought this one thru..eh..?

          ..and i suppose you expected some sort of ‘respect’ for yr new title..?

          ..how has that worked out for you..?

          ..(and the longer this laff-fest goes on..

          …the more we want to know who it was who recommended you for the job..

          ..was it farrar..?..or edwards-the-younger..?..

          ..c’mon..!..transparancy..!..we are gagging to know..


          ..and how many of yr vollies have bailed..?

          ..’cos any leftwinger would run a mile from you..)

          ..and how is blue-green-rory..?

          ..still pleased he picked you..?

          ..it’s all off to a good start..eh..?

          ..phillip ure..

    • David H 15.5

      On Campbell live they have just shown a document released under OIA from EQC and guess what they have a VIP list Pm’s sports stars etc etc. Why should these clowns get preferential treatment they get paid handsomely as it is and as for the PM well he should be at the back of the queue, and the poor sick and vulnerable at the front

      • freedom 15.5.1

        David H, no TV here, checked both the TV3 site and Campbell Live pages but see nothing about it.

        There are pensioners living in busted homes for three years, and EQC has a VIP list getting preferential treatment? Is that what you are telling me?

        • phillip ure

          that is indeed what you are being told..

          ..(famous sportspeople are also amongst the favoured ones..as they should be,,!..eh..?..)

          ..and there are some 35 chch people/homeowners who got that vip-treatment..

          ..shall we call them the christchurch 35..?

          ..and don’t we all want to know their names..?

          ..and if i was a chch-person..still listening to tarpaulins flapping..

          .i wd be pretty pissed at this news of vips all warm and snug and all paid out..

          ..since shortly after day one..


          ..and you know what..?

          ..i’ll betcha big-gezza brownlee was high up on that v.i.p.-list..


          ..and the tory ex-mayor..what was his name..?

          ..that’s right..!


          ..phillip ure..

          • freedom

            Hopefully that tips the balance for the fence sitters still trusting this disaster of a Government

  16. alwyn 16

    @Blue Leopard.
    The Question Time transcriptions always start appearing at about 4.00 pm on the same day and are normally all there by 5.30 pm. They are put up as soon as the Hansard reporter has transcribed them and don’t necessarily appear in the order of the question. Once they are all there you can link to a version of all the questions in one document from the first question.

    They aren’t the final version as members are allowed to correct errors made by the Hansard staff, and can usually get away with changing very minor slips of the tongue. They can’t change the meaning of what they said though. Most never bother to change anything.

    lprent. I see I am in moderation. I thought my time on the naughty seat was up.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 16.1

      Cheers Alwyn,

      There are a number of times I have looked straight after watching parliament and I haven’t found them – so assumed they must take a few days to appear.

  17. Not a PS Staffer 17

    All MPs need to be media savvy and ensure they don’t create needless distractions when the Nats are getting negative attention.
    Shane needs to pretend that he is putting the party before himself: I know that is a huge ask of the loquacious adonis; but the votes he got in the leadership battle strongly suggests that he should not fuck with membership and affiliates.

  18. freedom 18

    Hekia Parata spinning and lying and playing such dangerous games with the truth. Lying to Teachers is not what one would call smart. Teachers are second only to mothers for human polygraph skills.


  19. JanM 19

    Has anyone read the latest Bowally Road offering? It’s enough to make your blood run cold!

    • i agree with what trotter sez..(and i don’t say that..that often..)

      ..and it just confirms the conclusion i came to at the end of my q-time commentary yesterday..

      ..and the herald editorial from this morning..

      ..unless labour have a serious rethink on their current tactics of:

      pointing at national and saying:..’we’re not quite as bad as them’..

      ..and that being about it..

      ..labour/the progressives are fucked..

      ..for this election..

      ..(as has now been (repeatedly) pointed out to them..

      ..they have to offer more than just words in their claims to ‘woo’ the one million absent/cynical/burnt-off-voters..)

      ..they have to both bury neo-liberalism…and offer a different/progressive vision..

      ..and to date..we ain’t seen that..

      ..and no hints of it on the horizon..

      ..and if they don’t..?

      ..we can all just welcome key for his third term..

      ..(and yes..!..i fucken hope ‘blood is running cold’…and that this will wake labour up..)

      ..(and ‘we support tpp..’in principle’..doesn’t come within a fucken bulls’ roar of that..eh..?

      ..and time is fast running out…)

      ..over to you…labour..cunnliffe..

      ..your/our future is entirely in yr hands..

      ..and from where i am sitting..

      ..it looks like you are about to screw-up..


      ..and i really really hope i am wrong..on this..

      ..but i don’t think i am..

      phillip ure

    • weka 19.2

      “Has anyone read the latest Bowally Road offering? It’s enough to make your blood run cold!”

      Read the first paragraph and the last. That was all that was needed.

      Election Day 2014 – barring that big surprise – will, therefore, likely see National’s supporters marching proudly, as to a political coronation, while Labour and Green supporters, convinced they’ve already lost, deliver John Key an unparalleled National victory and the psephologists a record low turnout.


      Fuck Trotter. Calling an election result like this contributes to that result. We need to be encouraging people to vote, not putting them off.

      • phillip ure 19.2.1

        or..we could all just delude ourselves..

        ..that everything will be ok on the day..

        ..and instead of yr cursing-refusal to read the (coherent) case he makes..

        ..how about you read it..

        ..and then tell/show us how he/me/the herald editorial-writer..

        ..are all wrong..

        ..and probably ‘traitors’ to boot..eh..?

        (..’co i am such a rightie..eh..?..)

        ..phillip ure..

        • JanM

          I agree with you Phillip. The trouble is it’s hard to turn a Labrador into a German Shepherd – I’m hoping Matt can do something about it, but he’d better find his feet real fast!

        • weka

          I don’t give a shit about what his argument is. He is coming out in a major newspaper, as a well-known left-wing commentator, and saying that National has won the election. THAT will put off voters and make the non-vote harder to mobilise.

          “or..we could all just delude ourselves..

          ..that everything will be ok on the day..”

          But I’m not saying that. By all means look at what is going on and help solve the issues at hand. But defeatist shit along the lines of we’re all screwed so why will people bother voting is completely insane at this point. Really, what is the point? And no, I haven’t read your previous illegible comment. btw, I am talking about what Trotter did (not what he wrote).

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

            Yes, I didn’t read the entire article because I can’t be bothered reading that type of crap just now, yet I am guessing he is trying to motivate people – including the left-wing politicians to not be complacent and get seriously active about getting people to vote this government out.

            However, I agree with you Weka – it ends up being just more of the same old defeatist, demotivating crap messages that the mainstream keep infesting our minds and souls with.

            • McFlock

              He did actually have one good point – the early spring election means power bills will still be high.

              But then he was also bitching that labour hasn’t released all of its policy by now, when they’d be stupid to do so. And didn’t level the same criticism at any of the other parties.

              • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                lol thanks for the summary – makes me glad I didn’t spend more time on reading it 😆

          • phillip ure

            @ weka..

            “..By all means look at what is going on and help solve the issues at hand. But defeatist shit along the lines of we’re all screwed so why will people bother voting is completely insane at this point..”

            i wd submit that what you demand in yr first sentence is exactly what i am doing..

            ..not ‘defeatist-shit’ like you claim..

            ..but what the fuck would you even know what i said..

            ‘cos in yr own (bitchy/sneering) words..

            “..And no, I haven’t read your previous illegible comment..”

            ..you really are a ‘case’..aren’t you..?..

            ..phillip ure..

            • weka

              None of my comments were about you phil, they were all about what Trotter did. Get a grip.

      • David H 19.2.2

        He’s a male version of Josie the NAT Pagani.

      • Murray Olsen 19.2.3

        The thing with Trotter is that, when he writes something you disagree with, you only need to wait a week at most and he’ll write the opposite.

    • David H 19.3

      Naaa don’t waste my time with Trotters dross anymore.

    • McFlock 19.4

      cold? Nah.

      Trotter’s calling the election six months out? More fool him (although it does give him a vested interest in labgrn failing).

      An election campaign is a running race where one spends half the time concentrating on the sprint and the other half trying to foot-trip one’s competitors. At the moment, everyone’s just jockeying for position on the starting blocks.

      • weka 19.4.1

        “although it does give him a vested interest in labgrn failing”

        Interesting, no?

        Why would he shut the door at this point? Wouldn’t it be better to keep open the possibility of change?

    • Disraeli Gladstone 19.5

      “Like Darius upon the plains of Gaugamela, Cunliffe faces the impossible task of stopping the onslaught of New Zealand’s very own Alexander the Great, Prime Minister John Key.”


      • Ad 19.5.1

        Hmm. Stretch your legs and do a full parody of Trotter.

        Start with Sysephus; rolling up the entire Labour caucus up the hill, again and again, and O the Despair, the cliffs and the darkness and the lightning, the effort both fruitless and vainglorious, (O!)
        Then Anaxagoras; something about process philosophy and the flow of time within politics, like Sands, Through the Hourglass, How Nordmeyer Oh if only he could have understood cigarettes (O!)
        Then something from the Address of the Pope at the Council of Clermont; the repressed telic drive for redemption, the fruitless hope for saviours, ah, he says ah, if only Billy Bragg had been Pope then, ah we’d still happily be Waiting For The Great Leap Forward.
        But not now. Now all is lost. It’s gone and history told us it would. It always does (O!)

        Then roll downhill into inevitable Defeat, O the Slough of Despond, O (O!) with the Herodotus doing the Fall of Miletus. Sadness! Sorrow! I coulda been a Condendah.

        And how that’s all just so David Cunliffe.

        O! (O!) (sigh)

    • millsy 19.6

      I am afraid Trotter is right.

      Cunliffe will struggle this year round, and Key will triumph.

      Shane Jones will then take over the leadership, and will lead a party that is indistigushable from National, and the NZLP will tear itself apart.

      Shipley and Boag knew what they were doing when they sounded out that young millionaire who had just returned from New York about standing for National./

    • weka 20.1

      Pay very close attention NZF voters and all those lefties who think Peter will go with Labour. If you vote for or support NZF/Peters you are saying you don’t mind if National forms govt again.

      “His NZ First Party could play a critical role in the formation of the next government, and he still won’t say which side he will favour if he holds the balance of power in the next parliament.”

      • McFlock 20.1.1


        Remember 1996.

      • Puckish Rogue 20.1.2

        I really want to agree with you as I want national returned to power but this is Winston we’re talking about

        • weka

          I guess from the other side he is just as fickle too ;-p But my point is that people on the left or wanting a left wing govt are fooling themselves if they think that Peters WILL give them one.

  20. jepenseque 21

    Collins revelation of dinner that she didn’t reveal is cause for resignation in my view – I’m a nat voter. JK will be angry and embarassed.

    • bad12 21.1

      Why would Slippery the Prime Minister be ”angry and embarrassed”, could it be that He sees red when a lowly Minister gets more air time for the broadcasting of Her/His Lies than what the PM is getting…

    • Skinny 21.2

      Maybe Key should toss a coin, Heads Collins goes, Tails Adams goes. Both are deserving of the sack. Now let’s focus on Adams who played a part in law changes so her and husbands large farm holdings in Canterbury tap into the rivers and help drain them dry. I think I prefer Collins over the smarmy little right-wing bitch Adams.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.3

      Jepenesque, that’s a surprise, considering that the normal practice for National MPs is to use their tenure to build a private business career. If Collins’ behaviour is a sacking offence how can you support the National Party at all?

  21. fender 22

    Freedom linked to this excellent pic on the NRT: Proving my point thread.

    Only thing missing is the milk bottle top necklace…

  22. joe90 23

    Turkey smoulders…

    Tear gas fills street in #İstanbul, #Turkey, in protests over death of 15-year-old #BerkinElvan. pic.twitter.com/XQ5PkQsGaL


  23. captain hook 24

    What a lot of twaddle from Tracy Watkins about the debate on the flag being a bold gesture of nationhood.
    New Zealand has been a going concern since 1840 and just because a new generation of upstarts who never read a histroy book in their lives are suddenly discovering a w whole lot of new words doesn not a bold gesture make.
    Its just a lot of overgrown kids trying to throw their weight around and pretend to some understanding that they dont have.
    Tracy Watkins show me one country that has changed its flag spontaneously without a revolution.
    If New Zealanders dont have any pride in this flag then what is to say they wil have pride in any other one.
    The only thing todays noo noo heads seem to have is pride in is themselves for being idiots.

    • Tracey 24.1

      Did she mention the abolition of knighthoods

    • Daveosaurus 24.2

      show me one country that has changed its flag spontaneously without a revolution

      Canada. Next fatuous argument for allowing a foreign flag to squat in the corner of our own?

  24. Draco T Bastard 25

    The team at Loomio are looking for support so as to help bring about better democracy.

  25. Tracey 26

    john “nothing to hide nothing to fear” banks is back in caught trying to get the charges thrown out. Any guess on his legal bill to date?

    ACT MP John Banks will apply to have electoral fraud charges against him thrown out because of a lack of evidence.

    Banks is to face trial in the High Court at Auckland over allegations he filed a false electoral return during his failed bid for the Auckland mayoralty in 2010.

    He was excused from appearing when the matter was called today, where Justice Timothy Brewer said Bank’s lawyer David Jones, QC, had until the end of March to file an application to dismiss the charges

  26. questiontime commentary:..


    ..summary:..a blinder of a q-time..

    ..i can’t really summarise it..without just repeating the body of the commentary..

    ..and i wd encourage anyone of a political-bent to watch the/a repeat/online..

    ..a 7/10 q-time..(and that is the highest ranking i have given..ever..)

    ..phillip ure..

    • McFlock 28.1

      if you’d pulled your head out of your arse for two minutes you’d have read comment 19 and the subsequent discussion, you moron

      • Puckish Rogue 28.1.1

        It needed a push because hes making (as usual) some salient points that pollyannas like yourself choose to ignore

  27. bad12 29

    Lunch, a formal dinner with official guests from the Chinese Government, that’s just an off the cuff stop off for a cuppa according to Collins,

    The only thing to be said about the prior trail of Lies told by Collins over this little ‘affair’ is that She must be auditioning for the role of National Party leader, which if the incumbent ‘Slippery’ the PM’s large litany of truth failures is the template for, requires an ability to lie to the people via the mass media on a daily basis over any issue, no matter how trivial it might be,

    Having LIED via that mass media to the people of New Zealand claiming that Collins endorsement of Oravida’s products had been translated from the Chinese language article into English by the Cabinet Office so they could form an opinion surrounding the perception of a conflict of interest i find i cannot believe the Prime Minister’s claim that the Cabinet Office gave him advice that there was no conflict of interest on the date the Prime Minister claims they did….

  28. Pasupial 30

    The threat of an oil-spill in the South seems greatly reduced by the lack of any oil to spill:

    Plans for the immediate drilling of a second exploratory well off the Otago coast have been cancelled, [Anadarko New Zealand manager Alan] Seay said. “The drilling has finished. We did have plans in place to drill a second well if we come to the view that that was warranted but that is not the case, it was always a long shot.”
    Once the drill ship Noble Bob Douglas completed the logging of its data it would be leaving New Zealand, Seay said.


    It’s been a bit of a nerve-wracking few weeks while waiting for the other shoe to drop. But until Shell cranks up their drillship, it looks like our beaches and ocean will remain uncontaminated. And there’ll be an election between then and now.

    “National’s deep sea drilling plans are failing, it’s time they focused on clean energy, green-tech and IT which will actually deliver jobs and regional economic development,” said Green Party energy spokesperson Gareth Hughes.


    If National won’t then there’s at least one other Party who will.

  29. Clemgeopin 31

    Mr David Parker made a really EXCELLENT speech today after question time during the urgent ‘Judith Collins’ scandal debate. The speech was very good but he didn’t stop early enough at the best time, but carried on a little too long repeating his points and thus diminished his own speech a little. Nevertheless he made top points.

    Watch his speech here:

    [Speeches from others are below if you are interested. I thought Robertson, Hughes, Peters and Mallard were very good. Hughes pleasantly surprised me!]


  30. so..what will happen to jones..?

    ..after his latest outburst against norman..

    “i’m not going to be lectured on the environment by an australian’…(!)..

    ..and/but as norman said..

    ..’jones is labours’ problem’..

    ..the man is a total clown..

    ..and this has to be the first test of the mccarten/cunnliffe pairing..eh..?

    ..and labour need some discipline..

    ..jones is a loose cannon..

    ..and if he is allowed to carry on like this..up to the election..

    ..he will really hurt labours’ vote..

    (and tho’ jones likes to boast he represents ‘the henderson male’..

    ..some sort of blue-collar role-model/avatar..

    ..i think most of them would see him as the dickhead he is..

    ..and these antics from jones will turn off far more voters..

    ..than it will attract..

    ..(why doesn’t he just go and join nz first…?..

    ..instead of just being peters’ man in labour..

    ..it’d be more honest..)

    ..phillip ure..

    • David H 32.1

      And now he’s done this.


      He is a liability for Labour Party time to get rid of Jones.

      • marty mars 32.1.1

        Jones is a scum-sucking wanker – he is dead weight drag for labour perhaps their deadest weight. And he wouldn’t care if the left get anywhere or not as long as his bread is buttered on both sides. Wake up labour, wake up ffs.

        • karol

          It sounds like Matt McCarten has had some words with Jones. Let’s see how that works out….?

          • greywarbler

            Jones does not seem able to control himself from massaging his ego. Should stick to porn. Then think about starting his own Party. I think he wants to be a wild card like Winston but he hasn’t got Winnie’s panache. Now he just gives me toothache.

            I thought he was getting focussed on being a good pollie for Labour, not after this attack on Russel Norman. It is Australia the country and its politicians that we need to be wary of. Norman shouldn’t be getting any negatives from Jones.

            • Pasupial

              Michael Savage was born in Australia, and was 35 when he immigrated over. Russel Norman was only 30 when he crossed the ditch; and, unlike Savage, married a Kiwi lass once here. It is difficult to see how a Labour Party supporter can honestly regard the one as a great New Zealander, and the other as an Aussy interloper.

              Of course; honesty and consideration, don’t seem to be a large part of Jones’ skill-set. He does have a certain gift of the gab, but more cunning than intelligence.

    • weka 33.1

      Is that Jenny “if I can live on the DPB for a week, anyone can live on it for the life of their child” Shipley? Although I am sure there are better things to call her now.

  31. geoff 34

    The vile egotist, Judith Collins on Campbell Live right now.
    I wonder if John ordered her to go on Campbell as punishment?
    Nah, she jumps at the chance to have her mug on tv, whether it’s good or bad publicity.

    Symbolically, she is wearing a white jacket to convey her innocence. Under the jacket is a black top which echoes her true nature, her cruel, black heart.

    Edit: How many fucking times does she have to say ‘close, personal friend’????

  32. Tiger Mountain 35

    Chris Trotter, the long distance columnist, is notoriously up and down like a sex workers underwear but even if his negativist projection comes true thousands of us will battle on and local activism and methods will flourish.

    • weka 35.1

      “but even if his negativist projection comes true thousands of us will battle on and local activism and methods will flourish.”


    • marty mars 35.2

      yep TM very true. Trotter is a bottom darkness defeatist and the best thing imo to do is turn our backs on that dim and face the light, and face hope and belief in left principles especially equality. trotter and jones = left? I don’t fucken think so!!!

      • Pasupial 35.2.1

        Trotter is a journalist by training – he writes to the editorial policy of the publication and thus gets his words dispersed more widely than most. In The Press he adopts one tack, on TDB another:


        He does seem a bit too ready to let Bryce Edwards get under his skin, but then many have a similar reaction to Trotter’s own writing. I may not agree with every piece he crafts, but he’s no Armstrong or O’Sullivan.

        • marty mars

          i quite like his writing style and when he brings in a historical (albeit angled) decoration to his writing it can be quite good, even illuminating to some extent. But my attitude was set with him during his tussles with Lew and his musings on tangata whenua. Plus the fact that he is so beloved by righties – personally I rather read QoT’s analysis than his – but that’s just me and good luck to other lefties that can find the specks of gold.

  33. Penny Bright 36


    My reply to Chris Trotter – yet to be published ….

    Chris – in my considered opinion you have completely underestimated how vulnerable this National/ACT Government is on matters of corrupt corporate control, and corrupt conflicts of interest.

    I note that you had NO IDEA about who really runs the Auckland region (the unelected Committee for Auckland) until I brought it to your attention?

    You may recall that in the recent Auckland Mayoral election, with no ‘team’, censored by key MSM, blocked by political phonies like Martyn Bradbury – I still polled 4th, with nearly 12,000 votes, campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region?

    Did YOU as a so-called ‘political commentator’ Chris Trotter, predict THAT?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    • xtasy 36.1

      Chris Trotter is a traitor in my eyes, he is not even worth quoting here, a piece of SHIT!

      • RedLogix 36.1.1

        If you get past the emotional response you’ll understand Trotter is pretty much on the money. The left has consistently underestimated Key from the get go, and it’s been fatal.

        Look at the latest affair with Collins, the pair of them will slide through it like nothing happened and the average punter will finish up feeling sorry for them.

        The message from that Bowalley Rd post is simple – if we keep on with business as usual the left will quite probably loose this election. Something BIG is required.

        • xtasy

          RL – I had a lot of time for trotters. But he does not “help” to get the “right ideas” and so to be communicated. That is why I consider him (like my damned traitor brother) a “traitor” of sorts for the working people. He is a generationalist too, thinking he is “anointed” due to birth into a class, that makes him as much as a “class” enemy of all those that go on about class. I am middle class by birth, but I reject and despise “class”, as it is to me a stigma, and as my parents are dying in stubborn class consciousness, they have no time for sharing emotions with their “more difficult” child due to that.

          So CLASS is evil, it is “shit” in my eyes, I do not even think along those lines. Free people NEVER accept any “class” or similar restriction, they are THEMSELVES.

          • RedLogix

            I’ve a lot of sympathy for that view xtasy.

            One of my touchstones were Helen Clark’s words in her valedictory speech, to paraphrase, “the two things I hated the most were snobbery and privilege”.

            I think that covers what you’re getting at. And that it matters far less what class you were born into, than how you behave towards others. How many bastards have you met you brown nose their betters and piss all over those they think are beneath them?

            And how often have you encountered a sort of reverse snobbery, a sullen bogan ‘attitude’ that despises intellectual eggheads, and the entire middle class for being wankers?

            I’d like to imagine we have that in common, a tendency to treat people much the same regardless of their background or position. Having said that you have to also accept that class is still a very real thing and it matters a lot to many people.

  34. xtasy 37

    So where are the WELFARE POLICIES from Labour and also GREENS? It almost seems you agree with a lot that National have done, also with David Bratt and Mansel Aylward teaching about “illness belief” and such idiot propaganda, serving governments that want to “slash” and do not care.

    Do you guys and girls even give a damn, do you care, apart from damned political slogans, which we had enough from from the most hated Minister for Social Welfare?

    What are you going to offer, what are you doing to address the injustices, what the hell are you proposing, or is all this too “politically sensitive”, just not a “vote winner”, and therefore “irrelevant”?

    You basically tell me and others, we are NOT WANTED, we are REFUSE, we are NOT WORTHY, we are a FRINGE FACTOR, we are RUBBISH, and thus not even mentioned in your shallow and hollow “programs”.

    So you have a few months to remedy this, if you want to bother, and I fear too many of you cannot bother, as you are ALL just focused on the tax paying MIDDLE CLASS voters.

    If that is the case, you are NOT going to get the 800,000 to 1 million votes you so often lamented about, they will NOT vote National or ACT, they will likely NOT vote AT ALL.

    You are giving away votes, you are shitting on too many on us, and this is my LAST WARNING to you, to bear mind of what and who WE are, and what VOTE power we may have. If we do not vote, we will anyway be a damned THORN in societies’ side, with extra health and other costs, with tax avoidance and other measures, some in anarchy, and you can then get “fucked”, sure well.

    As one that has been treated like the worst SHIT in NZ on a BENEFIT, not trusted (probably due to foreign background and more), I have NO time for any hollow and crap policy slogans, that may only catch the ignorant. And I am NOT a ‘patriot” as I know too much about the lies and rot about this country too.

    So get back to me, dear Mr Cunliffe and others, and maybe we can “talk”, after all (I doubt it so far).

    Where ‘welfare reform’ ends

    • and that oinker-shipley is boss of the company ripping off the poorest..

      ..with those pre-paid power exorbitant-charges..

      ..there’s a surprise..eh..?

      ..another greedy tory-oinker..sticking it to the poorest..

      ..truly hideous excuses for human beings..they are..

      ..phillip ure..

  35. xtasy 39

    So I got screwed around with a previous comment load, but now here is a summary of Latin American” history, but sadly only a brief summary US style, but not quite that bad, I thought (given very poor knowledge here):

    That may assist some understanding for the continent concerned.

  36. xtasy 40

    Austrian TV,

    ‘wir sind Kaiser’ – for humour, for those that understand the language:

    (min11 plus is of ‘special’ interest)

  37. xtasy 41

    Heed the call of “EL PUEBLO”:

    ‘El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido” –


    And especially this one:

    There is MUCH more in the way of revolutionary and popular South American music, it is full of life and spirit, it is REVOLUTION for that sake.

    So load this, and also connect to the links on YOU TUBE to find more.

    Viva el pueblo, viva por el futuro.

  38. tricledrown 42

    Stop picking on Chris Trotsky
    He is a buy poller.
    Looking for a gig on TV around election time.

  39. xtasy 43


    ILLAPU from Chile, top choice, and we do not need to discuss, as the level of discussion will be unequal. But enjoy and think and move ahead, for NZ to “grow” into a new nation with new ideas and cultures.

  40. xtasy 44

    Is any one here serious about it all ?

    el muerte de Che Guevara, penser!

  41. xtasy 45


    • Chooky 45.1

      oi xtasy ….calm down buddy…we are going to get a new Left Government …it always worst before the dawn…take a deep breath

      go and get some socialising with your old mates …you need to take some time out….maybe take a tent and a sleeping bag and stay at the beach with some friends

    • Murray Olsen 45.2

      xtasy, please talk to a medical professional.

      • xtasy 45.2.1

        Sorry for all, I have tried, and so did a Brazilian flatmate two years ago, who was a migrant, but in their eyes “unwelcome”, as a “burden” to the mental health system. They treated her like crap, fed her all sorts of coctails of pills and did nothing apart have a dubious “psychiatrist” “check” her medical regime once a month. She was after a psychotic episode in 2008, due to apparent abuse by a NZ “partner”, ending up in Te Whetu Tawera or what it was called at Auckland Hospital, and later discharged, and in the end, under the Mental Health Act and a twisted judge’s decision, supported by ADHB, handed back to her abusive partner as supposed “caregiver”.

        I took the whole matter on, had the ADHB up in arms, even had a senior Herald journalist tied in at one stage, but they pulled down the shutters, did all to stone-wall, used the Privacy Act, and more. Finally I managed to achieve that after endless appeals by her mother, my flatmate returned to Rio. And amazingly there, in a “developing” country, they found a brain tumour responsible for many mental issues she suffered from, which ADHB NEVER detected.

        New Zealand mental health – and even some other services are appalling, yes totally disgustingly failing in many cases, I have NO trust in them, and will NOT work with them, ever again. It is better to cut your wrists or shoot your brain out than go and work with “mental health” services here in Auckland, it is a waste of time, as recent contacts proved yet again.

        Also I and friends dealt with the most useless Health and Disability Commissioner, and two complaints are before the Ombudsman now, whose office is totally overworked and underfunded.

        I am sure you read that new post here on WINZ, and that what Stephanie Rogers writes, that is still putting it too bloody “mildly” in my eyes. They drove me close to suicide, had police call and threated to kick the door in, and took me for a “check up”, only to release me again hours later, but the battle with MSD had just started, and it lasted two to three years.

        In my eyes they are nothing short of FASCIST.

        I am really shocked about what I wrote the other night, but I had a breakdown, and was furious like mad, about stuff that happened while I used my computer, suddenly all falling to crap, and apparently being manipulated. So I choose to stay off here for at least a longer while, I am at serious risk, but again, the health authorities here are USELESS.

        I am sorry, but that is my experience, and just some of it, and it sounds bad, but that is the bloody truth about what happens to some, and too many people in New Zealand now. I wish I had never come back here, in all honesty. They only want rich pricks to migrate, with no health issues and big wallets, Chinese magnates and Hollywood heroes. That is the “paradise” John Key has created. Today they sold a large farm near Ashburton for over 60 million NZ dollars, and one totally arrogant South Island old rich prick that got a load of money for it, he boasted in front of media, he is going to buy a yacht and wants “young girls” to come and join him to sail the world.

        Welcome to NZ 2014!?

        P.S,: You may get a slightly “better” care these days, if you have done time in prison or are a youthful delinquent. That is how it works, so maybe I need to commit a crime taking me into prison for a few years?

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