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Open mike 12/05/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 12th, 2012 - 75 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

75 comments on “Open mike 12/05/2012 ”

  1. Carol 1

    How cynically undemocratic is this NAct government? …. determined to push ahead with it’s programme assisting corproates, at home and abroad, to fleece Kiwis of their hard earned assets and rights:


    The Government will not delay the passage of the bill allowing share floats of state-owned enterprises until after the Waitangi Tribunal has held its urgent hearings on the matter.

    Ministers are insisting such sales would not affect the rights and interests of iwi and will not set aside any shares for future settlement.

    But SOE Minister Tony Ryall says the Government could be prepared at a later stage to “stand in the market” and buy shares for some iwi as part of Treaty of Waitangi settlements.

    When will the media hold the government to account, and challenge their way of treating democracy like a business enterprise where rights and social justice are just products and services to be bought and sold in the marketplace?

    • freedom 1.1

      “When will the media hold the government to account …?”
      Carol, i am going to go with never!

      • rosy 1.1.1

        John Armstrong is beginning to give it a go, and not for the first time. He’s been having a few digs recently. It seems like he’s getting a cynical about this self-serving government (unlike his colleague Fran O’Sullivan).

        The talk about contraception was designed to get John Key’s controversy-plagued Government back on the front foot and regain control of the political agenda for the first time in weeks.

        It wasn’t the first time, and it won’t be the last, welfare reform is wheeled out to perform that function.

        • ianmac

          And Joyce’s Student Loan adjustments unsupported by any paperwork or rationale. Off the cuff as a cynical distraction?

        • Dr Terry

          Rosy, don’t talk to me about the blind Fran O’Sullivan who has all the discernment of a weed! Yes, I think we can call her “dear John” a weed, anyway! Fran’s problem is not being able to find a way to “fall out of love” with that handsome stag (sorry – I changed the analogy from weed)!!.
          But whatever his problems, TV News continues to consult JK on anything and everything. He looks sublimely happy with that.

      • mike e 1.1.2

        They have murdoched our media

  2. freedom 2


    RT is playing the very forthright documentary The War in Iraq over the next few days, May 11,12,13. It is a compelling and well researched investigation into the ideas and ideals behind the illegal invasion and ongoing destruction of Iraq. In short it is a terrifying exposé of the manipulation and deceipt that is contemporary Geo-Politics.

  3. muzza 3

    The Government is considering requiring beneficiaries to immunise their children

    Wow what a shock, pretty sure the playbook was called the other day that this was something the govt would use as a move toward forced vaccination!

    EDIT: My comment was about the contraception and forced injections, but it took four days for the article above to appear

    Who else wants a copy of the playbook ?

    • mike e 3.1

      Muzza What against poverty.This is the same attitude they had in southern states of the US last century Eugenics.Divide and conquer the human right commission should get into Paula Bennett.
      Every body should be treated as equal.

      • muzza 3.1.1

        Thats right Mike E – The playbook is simply a rehash, the agenda nothing new…I was trying to point out the ease at which the medias complicity to relaying the messages can be called out!

        Everyone equal….LOL, yes they will all be forced vaccinations if this gets off the ground…Not for the decision makers of course….just the cattle!

      • McFlock 3.1.2

        Another option is that the government thinks it’s taking a hit on the poverty-related kiddie-illness issue. It can blame kids eating slops on bad parenting, but disease is not so easily dismissed.
        So rather than spending money on making doctors more accessible, or reducing overcrowding, or making sure homes are warm enough, I think they figure that forcing beneficiaries to immunize is an easy and free (if not cost-positive) way to drop vaccine-preventable diseases by 5-10%. And making it easier for them to fuck the economy for another three years.

        • muzza

          And what about you McFlock?

          Musing about the possible facist intentions of the current government, could lead one to thinking that you could find some common ground with them….

          In fact having read your posts on the other vaccine thread, it seems you might could well be quite the little tyrant in your own mind!

          • McFlock

            At least I’m only one person in my own mind.
            As for me, I think that addressing inequality and housing, alongside beefing up the education system, would do a lot mre to prevent communicable diseases than compulsory vaccination to catch the tail-end of nutbars.
            Although there might be something to be said for restricting school and ECE attendance to vaccinated kids only, but that might just be a first-stage response to an emerging epidemic.

  4. Lanthanide 4



    Under these arrangements, an American corporation, for example, would be given far more extensive rights against our government than any New Zealand company would ever have. It would mean that a future government, perhaps elected to change policy in an area like environmental protection or health and safety (smoking comes to mind), could be threatened with a crippling lawsuit unless it backed off.

    • ianmac 4.1

      I heard Tony Ryall on the radio yesterday reassuring us Lanth. He said that there was no way that we would lose our sovereignty and that what Government would sell our rights away in a Treaty? So that’s alright then.

  5. Salsy 5

    Sheesh, anyone watching the Nation this morning? The introduction piece about Shearer gagging DC and preventing him from coming on to debate asset sales – fear of stepping on Parkers toes. Parker cant compete with National MP’s on this issue- he simply is not powerful, intelligent and articulate enough. Labour are like a really shit AB’s line up right now, the players are in the wrong places – I cringe when they hit the public field.

    • muzza 5.1

      Actually its deliberate sabotage of the party…

      Parker is a complete lighweight, non entity, so why is he being left in that position…

      Parliamentarians for Global Order , all of them!

    • grassroots 5.2

      This is so crazy. 
      Fancy Shearer appointing Parker Finance Spokesperson.  If promotions are merit based then Cunliffe should be the finance spokesperson.  He should at least be allowed to debate things publicly occasionally.
      And it looks like the leaks are continuing.  Someone high up has told Garner that Cunliffe was gagged.  If Labour really wants to look like a Government these leaks need to stop.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3

      Shearer gagging Cunliffe wouldn’t surprise me especially after the speech that Cunliffe gave a few weeks ago which seemed to be almost totally against what Shearer has been saying.

      • Ad 5.3.1

        Utterly odd that with Shearer AGAIN muzzling Cunliffe, there was no-one to go on The Nation this morning to hold the Government to account.

        So instead Tony Ryle as Minister of SOE’s got what amounted to an Opposition-free hall pass to talk about the great asset selloff.

        And here we are less than 2 weeks away from the Government’s budget, so where the hell is the supposed Opposition Finance Spokesperson David Parker? Utterly absent, from the guy who five months ago who wanted to lead the entire Labour Party.

        And not to put too fine a point on it, Cunliffe has done the only effective set-piece speech from Labour since the election.

        Great Labour can go “me too” to absolutely every political scandal going in the let month, but when it comes to leading the attack, they are simply willful eunuchs. Shame on Shearer – grow a pair man.

        • Jim Nald

          If Labour cannot or do not want to front up, then another spokesperson from the opposition should be there, eg Mana, NZ First or Greens.

          • Colonial Viper

            If Labour want to give the role of major Opposition to one of the other parties, I’m sure the other parties will gladly take the ball and run with it.

            • Jim Nald

              We know the PM shoots blanks but is it clear that Labour has balls?

      • Dr Terry 5.3.2

        How on earth could Cunliffe NOT seem totally against what Shearer is “saying”!

    • Socialist Paddy 5.4

      And Bloody Farrar is now running the story.  He also says Shearer’s office gagged Cunliffe.

      Labour get your shyte together.  Cunliffe is your biggest asset.  Use him. 

      • Pete George 5.4.1

        Not just him saying it.

        Cunliffe no-show on @theNationtv3 clearly shows he’s been gagged by Labour hierachy fearing he appears up for leadership challenge

        This could be a good sign though, that finally Shearer is starting use some authority. If he can keep building on that – and if the party visibly unites behind him – he can let the spokespeople do their thing – next year is plenty of time to develop that.

        • Socialist Paddy

          You have to be joking.  A senior member of the Labour Party being prevented from going on TV to take the fight to the Government?  What are Labour going to do?  Not say or do anything just in case the leader feels threatened?

          A real leader would support his spokespersons getting media traction and arguing Labour policy.  Helen certainly did. 

          • Jim Nald

            While Natz are trying to cut the economy out of the doldrums and telling tall stories, let’s hope Labour are not trying to cut down tall poppies.

            • Well Balanced: a Chip on Both Shoulders

              No, I doubt very much that Shearer is the type of guy who would try to dumb down his front bench spokerspersons. Goff seems to have done that to get his personality popularity figures up: they all know that didn’t work.
              Shearer is a tall man and hopefully a MAN. He would have learned from the mistakes of the Goff strategy. He would definitely be encouraging all of his team to front-up and make strong speeches that push the Labour brand. I hope his replacement of advisors and office staff works out for the better.

  6. Johnm 6

    “Waiting for Copernicus: On the Slow-Death of Neoliberalism”

    “It’s happening in Buenos Aires. It’s happening in Paris and in Athens. It’s even happening at the World Bank headquarters.
    The global economy is finally shifting away from the model that prevailed for the last three decades. Europeans are rejecting austerity. Latin Americans are nationalizing enterprises.”

    “Argentina is by no means the only country in the region to roll back the privatization mania. The Brazilian government increased its control over the oil company Petrobras a couple years ago. In Bolivia, the government of Evo Morales recently renationalized the electricity grid, which had also been in Spanish hands. This move comes after the nationalization of hydroelectric facilities and telecommunications. Venezuela, under Hugo Chavez, has made enlarging the state sector a populist rallying cry. And Ecuador has followed suit with laws to allow the government to seize oil and gas companies that don’t comply with national regulations.”


    The rest of the World except the U$$$$ (Also known as the Banana republic of the US$$$) and the UK$$$$ have woken up to the disaster that is NeoLiberalism. Alas though Shonkey and his mates haven’t and they’re making the ordinary kiwi pay for their willful blindness and stupidity continuing with the Privatisation impoverishment rort which only benefits their class mates.

  7. prism 7

    I heard Winston Peters on Radionz Wed-Fri I think on Morning Report dissing Whanau Ora and Tariana Turia giving a spirited defence of it.
    Government and people need to get beyond having a hissy fit every time something goes wrong with Maori initiatives. She made the point that when working for and with people who have been on the bottom strata of society there would be times when there were unsatisfactory outcomes.
    And I think this is inevitable so let’s face up to it and set up good monitoring and scrutiny and not use the bad to stop good from being encouraged. And the bad can’t be prevented completely – we can only work out regular checks so they get caught early and then the good that is happening can reach out to all levels of Maori society faster.

    After all the whites aren’t so good either, if Maori are supposed to look at the white wealthy as towers of aspiration, we had better step up to our lofty myths and act to stop pakeha business and charitable scams. And the unregulated permissive business and government practices with casinos, jobs for our friends without tender, etc etc (fill in this gap with your own examples) smooths the way to dishonesty and contempt of probity.

    So the one sure way to prevent adequate spending programs on Maori social, employment and SME development, of a legal sort, is to explode with disgust any time that associated wrongdoing comes to light and throw out the baby with the bathwater. Result is a big -0.

    • mike e 7.1

      Maori rip off $20,000 all hell breaks loose
      European rips off millions get to become prime minister

    • kiwi_prometheus 7.2

      Good on old Winnie, the crafty old bugger, he’s always putting a cat among the pigeons.

      “Why would the Government pay for a TV programme [ The GC ] that shows Kiwis earning high Aussie wages while living a degenerate party lifestyle?

      “We are all sick of the chardonnay-sipping liberals creating this sort of rubbish – we need to put people on the NZ On Air board who show a bit more intelligence than those who chose to fund this brain-dead show.”

      NZ On Air funds programmes with cultural value, and Mr Peters says that’s rubbish as well.

      “The much-hyped Maori cultural content is virtually non-existent. Just showing a few scribbles on their faces hardly satisfies the requirement.”

  8. Well Balanced: a Chip on Both Shoulders 8

    24th of May, Thursday week, is budget day. The National Party had a free run on the Nation this morning. The Labour Party declined an invitation. WTF. Tory Ryall got away with murder on selling our Assets: no Labour person there to challenge him. WTF. Who is responsible and accountable for business management in the Labour Opposition?

    • prism 8.1

      Well Balanced – Could the people demand a by-election on electorates of Opposition members who aren’t doing the job we are paying them for? A very adequate income indeed these days. Never heard of it but they are being paid while they are in Parliament and they are expected to be holding the government to account not playing pretty positional and psychological games choosing when to expose themselves and their programs and beliefs to scrutiny.

      In sport coach positions are reviewed quick smart when their team doesn’t perform. We people are supposed to be the backbone of the democracy, the real job creators with our tax money and investment of savings and work skills, so we should have more to say and more control over our political agents in the way that investors in paid sports sectors have.

    • ianmac 8.2

      It may be a good idea to hold fire for now, let Government Ministers shoot their bolts and keep the Opposition powder dry until the blowup of the Budget itself. Let the Minister hoist their own petards and dare them to damn the torpedoes in the winter of our discontent after the Dreaded Budget.

      • prism 8.2.1

        Ianmac – Yes I see your point but it seems necessary to make a show up so that people know they have a sparking Opposition. If they have definite policy trends that they believe are important, even if they can’t actually carry every policy that would be beneficial, then they could refer back to that trend. The comment would illustrate how government was not achieving good change with the latest thrash of programs. It would be a broken record approach – ‘But how will that return us to more employment and full-time jobs allowing discretionary spending?’for instance.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.2

        ianmac. “Keeping your powder dry” applies when you have caches and stockpiles of arms and munitions ready to use at a moments notice.

        Where do you think Labour is keeping these.

        • Ad

          We still haven’t seen Joyce being held to account for whatever this big Ministry of Big Business and Screw You All is supposed to deliver.

          Duncan Garner should do a show with Joyce versus Cunliffe, and see where we really are toe to toe.

          Actually the next set piece speech I want to see, once the smoke is cleared from Greece, is about The Economy and The Environment. Something about biosecurity and agricultural risk, something about our future as a food producer, and something about the necessity of the Greens to New Zealand politics.

          Strange we don’t hear the Labour leadership ready and willing to work with the Greens.

          • Dr Terry

            Would the Greens leadership want one bar of Labour? Greens have all the intelligent policies, where Labour seems unable to come up even with UNintelligent policies, none at all!

    • David H 8.3

      Who knows who’s in charge these days. I won’t vote for em in this state, and Shearer to me? a big mistake making him leader. Cunliffe should have been there to keep the crap to a`minimum, where was he ????

  9. Jackal 9

    Myth-busting rightwing prejudices

    I happened to be reading through the Fifth Annual Report of the Perinatal and Maternal Mortality Review Committee (PDF) and came across some data that was obviously wrong! Namely the graph on page 20 that makes it look like people in poor areas are having on average more children…

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Shit, good job dude.

    • Hateatea 9.2

      Congratulations on wading through those statistics and not emerging brain damaged let alone discovering anything substantive from them.
      What is that saying about ‘damn lies and statistics’?

    • McFlock 9.3

      Not sure about that.
      If one decile of 400000 people has more babies than another decile of 400000, then yeah, they have more births. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a fact. 
      My guess is that deprivation is largely proportional to age, and probably reproduction itself (DINKs vs 2.4kids). Just controlling for age would probably be interesting. Also if there’s a gender skew in the dep06 indices, that might be an issue. If it were really dissected, we might just find that people most likely to be poor are young women.

  10. Well Balanced: a Chip on Both Shoulders 10

    Ianmac: the Labour Brand today was very weak. And it will be even more so tomorrow if the Front Bench does not Front-up. Where was Shearer, Robinson or Parker? A week out from the be budget and you suggest we give them a free run!! We need to get all our best front bench people making appearances on these opinion forming forums. Every MP hold have Pre-Budget scene setting speeches or newsletters out in their electorates to set a context in which voters can hear the budget. Every MP should have a Post-Budget speech booked or newsletter planned that will highlight the deficiencies.

    Ianmac, if we are not shaping the story, the Nats will. Take your pick. Mine is that we shape the the story. Today we failed abysmally. The responsible Labour Party manager should get a written warning. The accountable person should prepare to replace the poor performers.

  11. Tigger 11

    Cameron Slater apparently has published emails stolen from Hell Pizza.

    Slater is quoted as saying they didn’t come from a burglary but won’t say where they came from.

    I refuse to give his site the traffic of following this up but assume others here may have seen what Slater’s been doing and could guess as to why he’s doing this? Personal? Professional? Insane?

    • Jim Nald 11.1

      Are those three options necessarily mutually exclusive?

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        Well, I’m pretty sure that professional will never apply to Slater 😈

    • Jackal 11.2

      Not sure about Slater’s motivation to publish Blomfield’s private emails there Tigger. Probably just to be controversial to get attention.

      Slater receiving stolen property

      Slater is of course not divulging where he acquired the data, but its likely to have come from Blomfield’s stolen computer and therefore Slater could be looking at a bit of jail time…

    • I keep an eye on Whaleoil but have avoided looking at this in any detail, it’s an alleged business related scandal in Auckland, not somewhere I want to spend any time looking, especially if information is illegally obtained – which if true don’t help Whale’s very mixed reputation.

      The number of comments on those threads started high but dropped fairly quickly, I don’t think it’s riveting for most of his audience.

    • DH 11.4

      There seems to be a lack of desire from the Police to test the new anti-hacking laws. They’re pretty specific except for the bit about knowledge which is subjective;

      “252 Accessing computer system without authorisation
      (1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally accesses, directly or indirectly, any computer system without authorisation, knowing that he or she is not authorised to access that computer system, or being reckless as to whether or not he or she is authorised to access that computer system.”

      If the emails are from a stolen computer then I would think that Slater would then be an accessory to a crime. In that scenario the emails look to have been accessed in the manner described above. It might be called anti-hacking law but it’s not expressed as such, it clearly applies equally to accessing someone’s computer directly.

    • David H 11.5

      Well if they are stolen, and he’s got them. Is that not receiving stolen property?

      • DH 11.5.1

        Not sure. I think that was one of the reasons they brought in the new legislation, digital content created some ambiguities on the law front that gave the defence lawyer plenty to argue against. The computer was stolen but if data was copied from it was the copied data still stolen goods? Also.. how can you prove that copied data came directly from the stolen computer; could have come from a hacked PC, backup device or other unknown source.

        Either way he seems to be risking a bit there.

  12. Colonial Viper 12

    The Renegade Economist

    A great series of videos that gives economists who have been sidelined by the corporations a real voice.

  13. happynz 13

    Whew! Just had a cheeky shaker here in Christchurch. Heard it first, then shake shake shake…

    Damn, it has been quiet lately, but…

  14. Just saw Jonathan Young, the National MP for New Plymouth, park in a metered parking space and walk into a nearby cafe without even looking at the meter. It appears the rules don’t apply when you’re an MP. Hope he gets a ticket 😉

  15. RedBaron 15

    Weird editorial in the Dompost today.
    Making vaguely complimentary noises about mothers who look after children.
    Are they trying to send all women back to the kitchen or are the Nact focus groups showing women to be dead sick of all the attacks being launched on them and/or the children?

    Student loans & allowances interest free were very popular when introduced not only with the students but parents and grandpaprents. Is this going to unravel Nact support some more?

    • Deborah Kean 15.1

      Making vaguely complimentary noises about mothers who look after children.
      Are they trying to send all women back to the kitchen

      That seems a bit of a stretch, Red Baron! Mothers look after children and ought to be allowed to! Saying every mother should work outside the home, is a good line for bene bashing, and reminds me that Rosemary McLeod of all people had a column in North & South or Metro in the 80s, in which she speculated that a lot of the hatred of DPB mothers was simply jealousy that they got to stay home and actually look after their children!

  16. Dr Terry 16

    I know I am a cynic, but what in heaven or earth would it take to unravel Nact support in a country whose brightest and best are wallowing in Australia? Those of us (unfortunately) remaining do not rate highly in discernment of human beings (if that is what Tories are).
    We take the Fran O’Sullivans of the country for our models!!

  17. Dr Terry 17

    Sorry, I meant to add Paul Holmes name to that of O’Sullivan! (That is the male version).

  18. KJT 18

    In the education Gazette Today.

    “”A coeducational Christian college, Y1–13, of over 1500 students. Our emphasis is on applying biblical principles to all aspects of school life. Commitment to the college’s special character and a willingness to take part in related instructional programmes are a condition of all appointments””.

    A State integrated school, (Tax funded) ad for a TECHNOLOGY teacher.

    Can’t anyone see what is wrong with this?

    If you want a job you must participate in brainwashing kids with unproven irrational beliefs.

    • Deborah Kean 18.1

      If you want a job you must participate in brainwashing kids with unproven irrational beliefs.

      Sorry, I think you’re wrong – your comment shows a very strong bias the other way, and would you be so angry if the advert was for a Muslim school, a Steiner school or a Jewish one? I can’t see an atheist applying other than to create a huge fuss…

      • KJT 18.1.1

        This is a State funded school.

        State schools should be secular. Not pushing religious beliefs.

        If religious believers want to pay for their own schools to brainwash their kids I can’t stop them.
        But schools funded by all of us should not be allowed to discriminate in their employment practices on the grounds of willingness to help with the brainwashing.

        At least sanity is prevailing. Less and less people participate in religion every year.

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  • Speech to Building Nations 2050 conference
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  • Speech to Constitutional Kōrero conference
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  • Further sanctions on the political and economic elites of Russia and Belarus
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  • Speech to Aotearoa Refugee Hui
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  • Defence Minister visits Ukraine and Poland
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  • Stuart Nash to attend OECD meetings
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  • Speech to the Asia New Zealand Foundation
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