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Open mike 12/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, August 12th, 2014 - 333 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeKia orana.

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

333 comments on “Open mike 12/08/2014 ”

  1. ropata 1

    what, no pictures of a random person called Mike?

    here’s a neat infographic of the electoral history of NZ

    http://thewireless.co.nz/themes/election/an-electoral-history-of-new-zealand

  2. cunnliffe just kicked arse on tvone breakfast…

    (and harre is up soon..replying to keys’ effigy-burning allegations..)

    • Paul 2.1

      Did that Christie interview him?
      Any signs of his Tory bias seeping through?

      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        no..the co-compere..

        ..and harre is now kicking christies’ arse…

        .wonderful stuff..!

        ..must-watch television..!

        • phillip ure 2.1.1.1

          corin dann then accuses the internet/mana supporters/’far-lefties’ of being behind all the billboard defacing..(!)

          ..which orifice did he pluck that one from..?

          (and i’m half-expecting harre to rush back into the studio..going:..’oi..!..dann..!..’)

          ..and billboard-defacing has clearly become a social-media sport..

          ..and some of them are bloody funny…

          ..and deserve points for creativity..

          ‘trevor moa’ on one of mallards..

          ..raised a chuckle around these parts..

          • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1

            and in their edit of the harre/christie takedown..

            ..tvone shows none of what is the ‘news’ in that interview..

            ..namely harre holding christie/tvnz to account..

            ..and then they only read out anti-harre emails from viewers..(!)..

            ..he/they are such tory-toads..eh..?

            ..and blatant with it..

          • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1.1.2

            What a revolting programme, had not watched it since the Paul Henry days, Christie and his simpering assistant delivering the world for shallow people. The TV equivalent of TradeMe message board.

            Harre´gave Christie a serve and he has been whinging and chipping at her remarks since. There was a weak admission that the effigy clip was not linked to Internet Mana and they do not supply free drinks to students.

            After Harre´ left our man then conveniently turns up an email from the mother of one of the students in the FJK video who says he had a selfie with the Prime Minister the next day, and that “there was alcohol there” (but they don’t state who supplied it)–hmmm wasn’t that exactly what Mr Key has suggested–that people telling him to fuck off one day would want a photo op the next?

            File under…

            • Tracey 2.1.1.1.2.1

              yup

            • bad12 2.1.1.1.2.2

              Talking of ‘Paul’, Henry that is, i watched last nights effort from the wee ‘Perve’ to see what InternetMana’s Lailla Haare, who was on the show last night, had to say,

              Befor Lailla appeared Perving Paul was talking as if He would be giving Her the ace grilling which didn’t eventuate i suspect out of Henry’s fear that Haare would vocally carve Him up in a serious fashion on His own show,

              What had me Laughing out Loud was the ‘interview’ Henry did with fellow media ‘personality’ Patrick ‘Alfred E Nuemann’ Gower befor Lailla was present,

              The boys own club of TV3 couldn’t but help feed off each other in a bout of inanities which, and, you will have to excuse the gross expression here, had me thinking of the pair of them as ”giving each other a public verbal hand-job on air”…

              • I hate to look like someone who holds a grudge, bad, but I must once again insist on a retraction of your false accusations about my opinions on abortion and eugenics.

                The crap you posted yesterday was nothing more than an attempt to dodge the fact that you made up a quote to smear me and sneered at me for challenging its veracity – when your only excuse was “oh whoops you never used the word “poverty” but that’s still how I ~feel~ your statements were.”

                Open mike 10/08/2014

                You can also explain, like you said you would, why you felt it necessary to introduce lies about my opinions on a completely different topic into an argument about strategic voting.

                • bad12

                  Yes, wait five stephanie i am sure i will get around to answering your latest stalk,

                  First tho i will go back a couple of days and read the Moderators Note that advises
                  me that you are Protected to a certain extent from my comments thus in debating with you at any time from the point of that Moderation on carries a certain Risk to at least me as a commenter and perhaps others,

                  SO, a wiser choice of comment from Me to you would seem to be, ”Yawn”………..!

                  [Stephanie: Allow me to assist you. lprent said “it is inadvisable to continue to attack [an author] on the basis of what she did not say, or what you choose to place as the meaning on those words.” It is linked in the exact comment you are responding to.

                  Now you are accusing me of “stalking” you. Stalking is a serious matter which shouldn’t be used as shorthand for me expecting you not to tell lies about me. Consider this a moderator warning that you either back up your claim, retract it in full, or take some time off.]

                  • bad12

                    [Stephanie: banned until the end of the year for abuse.]

                    [lprent: Interesting reading the comments in the spam bucket. bad very clearly doesn’t want to come back. And he really really seems to want to an increase. Lets double that, and carry on doing so each time I see one of those comments. I’ll harden up the effectiveness of the ban somewhat as well. ]

                    • yeshe

                      That’s a great loss; sorry to hear that. Wish you could have sorted it amicably. Sigh ….

                    • that’s a shame..

                      ..he often has intelligent/astute commentary to contribute..

                      ..has good bullshit-detecters..

                      ..he will be missed..

                      ..any chance of making his ban for just a couple of weeks..?

                      ..or delaying it until post-election day..?

                      ..i feel he is needed here..at this particular point in time..

                      ..he is a force of/for progressive-energy..

                      ..(and if the ban holds..and he wants an outlet for his comments/dialogue..

                      ..he is welcome to come to whoar..

                      ..and i will engage with him there..

                      ..we cd do hatchet-jobs from afar..

                      ..with no holds barred..

                      ..it could be entertainng..

                    • bad12

                      [deleted]

                      Do you really think you impotent little arsehole that you can actually keep me from commenting on here,

                      [deleted]

                      [karol: off to moderation]

                      [lprent: Actually I can stop you being able to read the site if I choose to. I have chopped out the entire range of IPs from your location from your current ISP from reading the site. I guess it is time for you to find a new ISP to get the attention you crave.

                      And if you make it past that shield, in answer to your question, it takes time to make sure. I didn’t want to affect anyone apart from you. I had to scan the stored encrypted logs to find out other lurkers who could be impacted and carefully craft the barrier around them.

                      I don’t expect a reply – because if I see one, then I’ll simply reject another range of IPs. Somehow I don’t think that bad12 is up to spambot standards. And we now have a permanent ban. ]

                    • Wish you could have sorted it amicably.

                      Yeshe, I can only assure you that the kind of shit bad12 was saying in comments which weren’t published would change your mind about his ability to settle things amicably.

                    • The Al1en

                      “I can only assure you that the kind of shit bad12 was saying in comments which weren’t published would change your mind about his ability to settle things amicably.”

                      I can imagine, and bet it wasn’t pretty. I, like I bet DC would also be, am sorry for that. 😉

                      I don’t see much wrong in the occasional p an q, but there’s always a moral line in the sand. It’s a shame bad felt compelled to cross it over an internet fall out, to save face, because he got caught out bullshitting.

                      Still, plenty more in the sea and all that (I’m looking at you pu) cough lol.

            • Lanthanide 2.1.1.1.2.3

              ““there was alcohol there” (but they don’t state who supplied it)”

              Given that this occurred at the student bar, I would be quite surprised if there wasn’t.

          • Tracey 2.1.1.1.3

            sometimes it’s the only power some people feel they have to make their point… It’s as much (to me) about people trying to be heard as it is “vandalism”.

          • Enough is Enough 2.1.1.1.4

            The effigy burning and general defacing of National billboards is a sign of the hatred which the current government is creating with its war on the poor.

            Expect more scenes like this Mr Key. You have created this atmosphere.

            Laila shouldn’t be so defensive. This is democracy and we should be proud of the youth making their feelings known.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.1.1.1.4.1

              Theres no excuse for vile anti-semitism and crude threats

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Ah, so you’ll be calling for Key’s resignation then. Weekly phone calls to Mr. Slater. Open incitement of his methods.

                The strongest force grows old, and then its violence will return, and kill it.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Got proof? (don’t worry I know you don’t have proof but are just trying to minimise the vile racism coming from the left)

                  • Enough is Enough

                    Stop with the faux outrage.

                    A burning effigy and a crowd chanting their displeasure at an evil man is not racism.

                    • john

                      We have antisemitic graffiti on billboards.

                      Nazi graffiti on billboards.

                      Antisemitic term used in hate speech from a Labour MP.

                      Antisemitic statements against Act and National coming out of Young Labour in May.

                      Green Party members endorsing Hitler posters with Keys face.

                      Left wing commentator and ex Green Party worker Gordon Campbell has a go at Key for being Jewish.

                      A German who collects Nazi memorabilia encourages hate chants, then use them as an advertisement.

                      Quite a pattern forming. Look under the carpet with a few google searches, and you’ll find it’s much more widespread than the small number of examples above. Including on this site.

                    • vto

                      you reap what you sow

                    • john

                      That’s funny VTO – – the very first example I found of someone on this site having a go at Key for being Jewish was you.

                      (your antisemitism even drew criticism from a number of other regular left wing commentators here)

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      When did the Prime Minister’s encouragement of Slater meet with similar criticism from the Right? Never.

                      These are your rules. If you don’t like them talk to the bottom feeders and tr*lls you rely on.

                    • Enough is Enough

                      John

                      Diddums

                      Harden Up

                    • North

                      The slitting the throat number was so proper. Only the best do that. No. The GodKey is shite. History will record it.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    His own mouth. “Every so often”. Numerous photos, Slater openly invited to National Party private boxes, etc etc.

                    The outpouring of hatred against Key and National concerns me as much as the regular day-to-day hatred they foster and encourage, I just have a better understanding of the source than you do.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      The outpouring of hatred against Key and National concerns me as much as the regular day-to-day hatred they foster and encourage, I just have a better understanding of the source than you do.

                      • That would explain John Keys massive personal popularity and Nationals popularity that Labour can only dream of
                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So it’s ok for a Prime Minister to openly encourage hate speech so long as he’s popular. Those are some lovely antique ethics you’ve got there. Are they for sale?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Depends on how much is Kim Dot Con offering

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      That would explain John Keys massive personal popularity and Nationals popularity

                      Open mike 11/08/2014

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Your hostility towards him means nothing to me one way or the other: he’s a sideshow and I note your failure to find a substantive rebuttal to my ethical challenge. I’ll go further, when your team does it you approve of the whole nasty bag of tricks: hate speech, smears, up to and including violence.

                      Where was your outrage at the bullet holes in Hone Harawira’s office? Live with it.

              • minarch

                “Theres no excuse for vile anti-semitism and crude threats”

                but there is for pearl clutching over-reactions ?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.4.2

              The tone Slater sets, with the Prime Minister’s full approval and assistance.

            • fisiani 2.1.1.1.4.3

              Defacing billboards with racial insults is democracy!!!! War on the poor?????? What are you smoking, it must be strong stuff.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Democracy? Of course it is: the billboard is a monologue, defacing it is a dialogue.

                That doesn’t make it the right thing to do, Fisiani, before you deceitfully accuse the Left of something based on one anonymous bloke’s opinion. Obviously it’s hurtful and destructive, as well as in some cases being creative and hilarious.

                You’ve sat on your hands while the Prime Minister has encouraged Slater’s methods all this time. These are your rules these kids are playing by.

                Suck it up champ.

                • Tracey

                  Gotta say, it does look like younger folk stooping… They do as others do, not as they say… I wonder how many of them come from homes that love mr key. So in that respect, well said OAB

                  anti semitic = wrong but saying haree takes dotcoms money in return for sex = ok

              • Enough is Enough

                Stop being so sensitive. I see David Farrar having a cry as well this morning about things being dirty.

                Get used to it. We are not going to stand by and quietly hand our nation over to the Key and his rich mates.

                Fuck John Key.

                We are taking our country back.

                • fisiani

                  So you approve of racist vandalism. What is your limit in your quest to “taking the country back? Do you approve of violence as well?
                  You have the freedom to speak but not the freedom to deface. It is not a childish prank it is criminal damage.The Left are simply appalling when it comes to democracy.

                  Given that most New Zealanders are reasonable people I do wonder about the impact of your negativity and criminality. I suspect it generates Votes for Team Key

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    😆 we’re the ferals Cameron’s been inciting hatred against. Oops.

                  • Enough is Enough

                    Where have I approved racist vandalism you moron. You are the one who keeps bringing racism into it. I have referred to burning effigy’s and chants.

                    Explain the racism in that you sensitive sausage.

                  • @ fisi..

                    ..have you noticed that all of the billboards altered..

                    ..that not all of them belong to tory toe-rags..

                    ..how does that fit in yr fitful-‘appalling’-thesis..?

                  • anker

                    F ………..I await your approval and congratulations to David Cunliffe for how he has handled all of the this.

                  • Tautoko Viper

                    Economic vandalism of NZ by National is a hell of a lot more serious crime than a few Hitler moustaches.
                    And on the subject of racist vandalism which to me is epitomised by the fact that National have followed a monetary policy that has caused further deprivation to the poorer in our society who include a disproportionate number of the Tangata Whenua, – I say No, I don’t approve of racist vandalism, no matter what form it takes.

                  • minarch

                    you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet i believe ?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  And the best way to do that is to point out that John Key is jewish…good strategy

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    No, hence the person who did so getting a telling off. Please keep up.

                  • Enough is Enough

                    One rogue Labour candidate who used a term that is arguably racist, is not a strategy adopted by the left.

                    That carless candidate has been dealt to by Mr Cunliffe.

                  • JamesMaxton

                    Being Jewish is not belonging to a particular race but belonging to a religion.

                    Surely John Key belongs to the Caucasion race.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Being Jewish is not belonging to a particular race but belonging to a religion.

                      Being Jewish is both.

                    • weka

                      Not to mention that there is no such thing as different human races. We’re all the same ‘race’ (species).

            • Kiwi Local 2.1.1.1.4.4

              +++++ excellent comment. Enough Enough.

              “The effigy burning and general defacing of National billboards is a sign of the hatred which the current government is creating with its war on the poor”

              Otherwise all traces of freedom of speech are banished by this Government control NatZis.

              This site The Standard and The daily Blog are the only ways we can get our collective opposition messages out there because we can’t via the fascist corporate controlled MSM that is a contorted Joyce Key media.

              • Tracey

                I think one point some are missing is a sense of powerlessness. People deface property, espesh billboards, cos they want to be heard. If you feel you have no other way to be heard…

                The right hear themselves constantly through people like hoots on radio and in media and farrar in print… That has an element of empowerment for right voters.

            • Weepus beard 2.1.1.1.4.5

              Expect more scenes like this Mr Key. You have created this atmosphere.

              – Enough is Enough

              This. The tone has been set from the top. The increase in arrogance is astounding. That’s the difference in this election.

  3. millsy 3

    If you oppose Labour’s health care policy, then you support US style health care. Plain and simple.

  4. philj 4

    xox.
    Labour candidate Steven Gibson, and Shylock reference. Do Labour vet their candidates for general knowledge? Is this the best Labour can find? Not a good look and ammunition for RWNJ’S, and RNZ’S Espiner.

    • are you todays’ concern-tr*ll there..philj..?

      .cunnliffe closed that right down in his aformentioned appearance on breakfast..

      • Tracey 4.1.1

        what did cunliffe say?

        • phillip ure 4.1.1.1

          said he personally phoned gibson..and told him that one more outburst like that wd see him hauled b4 the party council..

          ..and he was particularly adroit at that close-down-task..as he got that in..b4 the interviewer could get her first ‘gotcha!’-question out..

          ..(i looked for the harre/christie vid on tvnz on demand..

          ..no sigh of that yet..but the cunnliffe-clip is up there..)

          ..all in all..it’s been a good ‘breakfast’ for the progressive-cause..

          • Tracey 4.1.1.1.1

            Thanks phil

          • phillip ure 4.1.1.1.2

            hilarious..!

            ..christie continues to whinge and moan about harre attacking him..

            ..he is such a pussy..!

            ..and he reads out one pro-harre email..

            ..tries to read a second..critical of him..

            ..and only gets thru one sentence..

            ..b4 throwing it to one side..

            ..the poor-luvvy clearly needs a hug..

            ..both the co-comperes are getting all petulant/pouty..

            • Gosman 4.1.1.1.2.1

              Why do you watch it given you have stated you no longer listen to Morning Report because of the supposed bias there?

              • Tiger Mountain

                Bing! logical fallacy alert
                –this appears to be a “loaded question” Gosman.

              • politikiwi

                I’ve stopped reading / watching all pro-Tory biased media in this country, which wipes out anything published by FairFax or APN as well as most TVNZ news programmes and a lot of TV3, with the notable exception of John Campbell.

                Removing these from my news feed has had two effects: Firstly, it makes my life better as I’m not constantly exposed to bullshit and propaganda. Secondly, it makes my news feed basically empty…

                • Lanthanide

                  Don’t worry, John Campbell will turn on Labour when they’re in government.

                  • politkiwi

                    I’m 100% OK with that: The Government of the day should always be asked the hard questions, whatever colour it may be.

                • crikey politikiwi..!

                  ..here’s a life-raft..!

                  http://whoar.co.nz/

                • Draco T Bastard

                  The major effect that I noticed about stopping watching TV news is that I now had to go out and look for it and this resulted in me having to think about it rather than being a passive ‘consumer’ of it. And the result of that is that I’ve become more discerning and critical of what I read.

                  • politkiwi

                    This is a great side-effect, and one I’ve experienced myself.

                    When you have access to a (basically…) limitless set of viewpoints, it becomes really obvious how orchestrated the supposedly “balanced” panel discussions actually are. When you have “expert panelists” who effectively represent two sides of the same coin – like “Democrat” and “Republican” – that’s not actually balance. That’s a charade.

                    I’m aghast at the efforts to frame all debates in terms of “left” and “right”, or “right” and “wrong”, or “freedom” and “terrorism.” The reality of these things is far more complicated, but if you present two viewpoints on TV that’s implicitly suggesting that those are the only two viewpoints worth considering. And sadly many people believe that that’s the case.

              • @ gosman..because it is on at the heavy-lifting part of my news-gathering-for-whoar day..

                ..and i don’t ‘watch’ it.per se..(that would be a form of torture..to have it..and only it..)

                ..it is just mumbling away in the background..

                ..and i only focus on it when pollies/people of interest appear..

                ..it is part of the news-gathering exercise..

                • and i guess a modicum of holding the lying-bastards to account..

                  ..for their ongoing/egregious spreading of bullshit…

                • Gosman

                  Why don’t you have the radio on then? At least that is designed to be on in the background enabling you to do other stuff. The TV is designed to be watched.

              • Kiwi Local

                Opps, Gosman,

                You did a ‘gotcha!’there,

                To Phillip ure,
                “Why do you watch it (TV1) + RNZ) given you have stated you no longer listen to Morning Report because of the supposed bias there?”

                But we have sympathy for political junkies, and they do have a valid use as “monitors” like the wars when the British intelligence eavesdropped on the NAZIs Reichstag to see what they were saying.

                But for our part we heeded Phillip ure’s boycott of TV 1 and feel better for it as we assume others also did.

                Much less stress watching/listening to TV3 than the NatZ contolled TV1 and RNZ.

          • TightyRighty 4.1.1.1.3

            so a two strikes rule for racism and anti-semitism in the labour party caucus. nice to know

      • Halfcrown 4.1.2

        “cunnliffe closed that right down in his aformentioned appearance on breakfast”

        I saw and like that Phil. Liked the way he told Pugh before she started
        ” I know what you are going to ask”, and then told her the answer.
        First bloody class left her speechless. Then the main course Harre getting stuck into Christie
        which he did not like
        Ha Ha fucking ha Not before time someone took this tax funded broadcaster to task about their blatant bias..

        • phillip ure 4.1.2.1

          another layer in the humour of that one was in the only pro-harre email read completely out.

          ….the email noted how craven christie is around key..never questions him..always gives him the last word..(i paraphrase there..they were much more erudite..)

          ..and christies’ answer to what was an indictment of him/his interviewing (non)-skills..?

          ..he said:..’but we let david cunnliffe do the same thing..we just had him on’..(!)

          ..absolutely no defence offered to that savaging of him..his work..

          ..and right now..christie is whining/wheedling/moaning..wriggling in his seat…still attacking harre..

          ..(and they still have not replayed the piece of the interview where harre holds tvnz to account for their role in the effigy-burning lies told by key..

          ..he is such a liar..that key..eh..?..)

          ..christie after harre..is a bit like the romans after their first encounter with boadicea..

          ..harre for p.m..!..i say..!

    • wyndham 4.2

      Gibson didn’t come across as the brightest star in the firmament when interviewed on MR this am.

    • northshoreguynz 4.3

      Do the names Aaron Gilmore and Claudette Hauiti mean nothing to you?

    • anker 4.4

      Philj @ 4. I doubt Labour vet their candidate for knowledge of Shakespeare’s plays. I take it you are not suggesting they do?

      The man was pulled up rightly so by DC. Given a very tough warning. And apologized profusely once he was informed of the meaning of his comment. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!

      • northshoreguynz 4.4.1

        Some basic knowledge of western culture would be advantageous though.

        • anker 4.4.1.1

          Northshoreguynz @ 4.4.1. Sure I don’t disagree. But no one can no everything and not everyone studies “Western Culture”………………………

  5. North 5

    Rawdon GodKey Whoredon aye. The man’s a joke ! E! Channel material.

    • Kiwi Local 5.1

      TV1 has now cloned all staff as pundits for NatZ policy plankers.

      Ban watching them for your stress/health’s sake.

      We call on;

      ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES TO FORM AN ALLIANCE TO BOYCOTT THE CONINUANCE OF THIS SHAM ELECTION PROCESS AND ORDER A STOP TO THE ELECTION CLOCK FOR A MONTH UNTIL 25TH OCTOBER, AND HOLD AN ENQUIRY INTO ;
      WHY NO FAIR PUBLIC SERVICE FUNDED MEDIA FACILITIES WERE GIVEN FOR OPPOSITION PARTIES TO SPEAK TO THE ELECTORATE AHEAD OF ELECTION DAY TO GIVE THE VOTER REASONABLE INFORMED CONSENT OF ALL THEIR POLICIES AND OUR CHOICES.

      [lprent: don’t SHOUT. It is annoying. I will only correct your behaviour and diminish the volume once. ]

  6. Rosie 6

    A reminder to Wellingtonians who have free time at 1pm today – David Shearer on Gaza at the Khandallah town hall..

    I’m going along, am interested to see what he has to say:

    https://www.facebook.com/events/673980682680041/?ref=22

    • Tiger Mountain 6.1

      Could be worth it, one good account I have seen him give of himself was on Gaza on Q&A several weeks back, any Palestinian advocate would have been pushed to fault it, he called the place an open air prison etc.

    • Tracey 6.2

      Look forward to what he says… And if Goff will say the opposite by this arvo.

  7. bad12 7

    Inherent in a story today to be found in the Granny Heralds online version is a tale of what is really wrong in New Zealand society today,

    7 or 8000 Plods are employed to in part protect us all from ‘organized crime’ and most of what they seem to uncover is if the ongoing trail of news stories is anything to go by anything but organized,

    Here’s ‘organized crime’ the ‘criminal’ allowed to then use the court system in what can only be described as ‘vexatious litigation’ to avoid any responsibility, it is abhorrent that the person indulging in this behavior is not locked up in a jail cell instead of being allowed by the system for 14 years to use His ill gotten gains in a series of court actions designed to simply avoid responsibility,

    ”Between the 1970’s and 2000, Russel established what the court of appeal has said was an Elaborate maze like structure of companies, partners, and trusts, AND provided advice on how others could Avoid tax through their participation in the ”Russel Template”,

    ”It, (IRD), reassessed Russel’s personal income and said He should have declared $15.76 Million between 1985 and 2000 instead of $298,000,

    The original bill was around 5 million,(in unpaid taxes), but penalties and interest inflated it,(while Russel has continued to use the courts to avoid responsibility),

    All of them, Russell and everyone of His ‘clients’ who He deliberately helped to evade due taxation should have been asset stripped just s any common crim has occur to them at the point where the crime was identified,

    These people, tax accountants and tax lawyers dreaming up these schemes are not isolated cases, they are ongoing organized criminal networks,

    In a similar Wellington case of the same nature last year it was shown that even tax accountants who refused to operate outside of the law knew of such illegal schemes and while refusing to be an active part of them happily ‘funneled’ clients to them…

  8. Ray 8

    I hope Greg Presland ( lawyer) is down on his knees to David Cunliffe for letting the jewish slur trip up a good Labour week
    It is all about perception and a steady build up of positives that will carry the day
    I am not suggesting he wrote this just that he should have aware of the damage it might cause
    Added to the cock up over the “secret trust” and you have to question his judgement
    David Cuncliffe’s handling of the slur was excellent

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1

      When we all lived in villages there was a name for this sort of thing: the poison pen.

      Your concerns have been duly noted k.thanxbai

    • bad12 8.2

      Ray, Shylock was the name of a ”cruel and heartless lender” in a Shakespearean play and while the particular character in the play penned by Shakespeare was cast as being Jewish the term Shylock is not necessarily confined to those of that religious faith,

      i doubt that Shakespear intended to portray to His audiences that the term shylock should only pertain to Jewish moneylenders and when giving its definition of the term my Collins English Dictionary makes no mention of the Jewish faith,

      Thus while being factually incorrect when assigning to Slippery the Prime Minister the term Shylock, in His present guise He apparently is not one, in correct English it is not racist for the particular candidate to have applied the term,

      Shyster, which addresses the actions of Politicians is therefor a more fitting expletive to attach to the PM…

      • TeWhareWhero 8.2.1

        Beg to differ – it was no accident that the money-lender in the Merchant of Venice was a Jew – and the term has become synonymous with Jewish usury. Like the Fagan character in Dickens – it was a caricatured stereotype of the devious money-grubbing Jew.

        If you use the term Shylock about someone with Jewish heritage it is very hard to claim it is anything other than offensive.

        Jews became money lenders because it suited both Muslims and Christians to have them carry out that function – and they were then reviled for it. I would never underestimate the longevity, depth and complexity of anti-semitism in our culture.

      • Tracey 8.2.2

        His jewishness was part of his character because he often harks to his persecution at the hands of christians to justify or explain his uglier traits. There are multiple aspects to shylock. His jewishness, or a kind of comedic parody of jewishness is one part of his character.

        It wouldnt surprise me if the labour candidate used the wrong word and meant shyster

    • weka 8.3

      How is this Presland’s fault exactly?

      • Because he didn’t take down the post himself/scold Gibson. Of course if he’d taken down the post and Kiwiblog had the screencap the story would be “Cunliffe ally covering up for anti-Semitic candidate” and if he’d scolded him the story would be “Cunliffe ally tries to silence candidate with inconvenient opinions” so, you know, buggered no matter what you do.

  9. Blue 9

    I think National’s strategy has become clear – they’re going to spend the entire election campaign whining to cover up their lack of policy.

    Perhaps John Key should check things he gets from Slater a little more carefully next time – but wait, what am I saying? With NZ’s media, he doesn’t need to bother.

    Looks like Key’s top drawer (a.k.a. Cameron Slater) is open and the Nats are going for yet another substance-free election campaign.

    They’re asking Kiwis to give them a third term in which to do nothing (or nothing they will tell you about) on the basis that they can whine, cry and kick up a stink like a two year old.

      • Enough is Enough 9.1.1

        Cry me a river…

      • Weepus beard 9.1.2

        Defacing election hoardings is nothing new. The fact it’s more visible this time illustrates the depth of feeling against #Teamkey and the increase in numbers wanting this government out.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3

        And all he does is link to the scumbag WhaleOil

      • adam 9.1.4

        Pucklish if for one minute you think Whaleoil is a credible source, you have serious issues. Maybe for gutter press, but as a source of what the left is thinking – grow up, no one from the left will talk to Mr Hate.

        And two, look around bro, all the hoardings are being attacked, the Mana ones are the ones I see defaced the most here in Auckland. Lincon road, had each and every billboard demolished over the weekend. I’ve heard similar stories from other roads across the region.

        Finally, it’s a bit rich the right wing accusing the left of racism, or Anti-Semitism. Seriously, have a look at jail figures, job rates, unemployment. Me thinks your might want to look at one of your own, she who has issues within the PM and staunch supporter of whaleoil. Scratch that poll, dear ya!

        • Puckish Rogue 9.1.4.1

          Hey Adam its photgraphs, you don’t need to read the opinion pieces but of course a pictures worth a thousand words and it shows the nasty strain of anti-semitism just below the surface of the left so I can understand why you don’t want to read it

          See no evil and evil exists right

          • vto 9.1.4.1.1

            anti-Semitism lives on the right, that is what history shows. Those pictures were dribble. Typical of the hater slater.

          • adam 9.1.4.1.2
            1. And photo’s can’t be staged? I’ve done it for advertising, promotions, etc.
            2. Come now Puckish, have you got evidence it was done by people you say it was done by? I could and will say it was done by the national front. A organisation with a track history in this country of Anti-Semitism. They have in the past used anti-Semitic remarks, actions and violence in public, they seem the obvious choice to me.
            3. Evil, yes lets talk – 270,00 kids in poverty, slave type wages, massive youth unemployment, and a economy based on earthquakes and milk powder. But no, you do evils job, and blame the other side who want to talk about these issues by name calling and accusations. Evil is, what evil does.
            • Puckish Rogue 9.1.4.1.2.1

              “3.Evil, yes lets talk – 270,00 kids in poverty, slave type wages, massive youth unemployment, and a economy based on earthquakes and milk powder. But no, you do evils job, and blame the other side who want to talk about these issues by name calling and accusations. Evil is, what evil does.”

              • I know the left love using emotion and hyperbole as an arguement but this is NZ not some despotic, tyranical fascist state as you’d like it to be
              • If it was then you wouldn’t have nut bars sharing the stage with the PM, you wouldn’t have KDC still in the country and you wouldn’t have scrote bags running around chanting f**k John Key
              • adam

                Who has fallen into emotion and hyperbole?

                Oh please, it was your national friends who let in KDC.

                Nut bars, thank goodness some on the right recognises act and the conservatives as the bat shit crazy outfits they are.

                And yeah, FJK!

      • tricledrown 9.1.5

        PR so National supporters wrecking left leaning bill boards are a superior class of vandal given they are supposed to be better educated better manners etc.
        election bill boards have been a target of derision for as long as i can remember!
        Its become a sport a National pastime !

      • minarch 9.1.7

        please link to your preferred hate-porn site somewhere else.

      • Blue 9.1.8

        I’d be more impressed if you could link to some National Party policy. But you can’t, because they don’t have any.

        What’s the next right-whinge, PR?

      • thatguynz 9.1.9

        Lol. You come to a left leaning site to quote a rabid right site to elucidate the “left’s strategy”..

        Bahahaha.. Numpty..

      • Murray Olsen 9.1.10

        Nah Pukish, all that crap would show is how pathetic Whalespew and the rest of your pigshit thick inbred mates are. I used to think you fuckwits made stuff up, but now I think you actually believe the rubbish you all spout.

  10. vto 10

    Is this nasty mean aggressive attitude being shown to John Key karma visiting upon his head?

    I think so. He is reaping what he has sown, and is going to have to suck it up. As are all Nat supporters – they sure aint liked much are they..

    • Gosman 10.1

      If you want a nasty and vicious campaign then by amm means take this attitude. Be aware that there is likely to be a counterpunch at some point though.

      • vto 10.1.1

        this is the counterpunch, that is the entire point.

        due to the nasty and vicious policies and attitudes of your lot.

        arseholes

      • adam 10.1.2

        Gosman, what is the effect you quote when people bring up fascists?

      • Tracey 10.1.3

        This is the counter punch to six years of lying and misleading by key and his gang

    • john 10.2

      Perhaps it is karma – it’s scaring middle voters away from the left.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2.1

        How would you know?

        Certainly your gutter smears are concocted with that in mind, and you’re wishfully hoping they’ll work.

        Here’s how it’s going to play out:

        1. Lie: “The Left” is responsible for random acts of hostility towards Dear Leader.
        2. Keep lying in the hope people will believe you.
        3. Realise that Cameron Slater is on your #team, and fuck off, muttering, under that rock you crawled out from, coprophage.
      • vto 10.2.2

        I don’t think so fulla. It is building a move to change that has lain oppressed. Key ignited it with his very self.

        • john 10.2.2.1

          Even Labour is distancing itself from the extremism on Internet Mana.

          The middle wins the election, and the middle is being pushed away from the extremism on the far left.

          As a National MP in the Herald said a few days ago, Nationals best election asset this year is Kim Dotcom.

          • vto 10.2.2.1.1

            extremism – ha ha ha

            the middle is not being pushed away and I think you will find that National saying that Dotcom is their best asset means the opposite. If you think about it.

            • john 10.2.2.1.1.1

              So you think the extreme left is not extreme.

              That’s like saying the middle is not in the middle.

              The fact that Labour might need the support of a convicted conman, fraudster and embezzler who ran porn sites, makes rape jokes, and whose policies are all about avoiding extradition to face justice, won’t scare moderate voters away.

              Yeah right.

              • vto

                prise your blinkers away

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                You’re missing the point, (apart from the fact that Dotcom isn’t standing) which is that National might need the help of an incest supporting racist skinhead or Colin the moonbeam. At least Cunliffe has ruled IMP out of cabinet.

                • john

                  Fisiani mentioned Kiwiblogs poll of polls
                  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/

                  The difference is National has the numbers to make minor parties largely irrelevant.

                  Labour has little choice but to embrace every extreme left party that they can.

                  Peters has ruled out working with IMP and Maori Party, so without a big poll swing to Labour /Greens, the next govt will be Nat. Failing that, it will be Nat / NZ First.

                  But anything can happen in the next 5 1/2 weeks.

                  • McFlock

                    You talk like national didn’t have to cosy up to an election fraudster this parliamentary term, just to get their flagship policy through the House. And they’re less popular this election than they were last election.

                    • john

                      And Labour thinks they have a high ground when it comes to secretly hiding campaign donations?

                    • McFlock

                      I only pointed out that national spent much of the past six years in coalition with an electoral fraudster.

                      If you want to defensively distract from that, feel free. Just don’t be surprised that you’re as transparent as you are stupid.

      • Local Kiwi 10.2.3

        Top Marks Tracy, try how many times Key has been caught with lies? 150+ and counting.
        It’s a game he plays all about the art of deception and Key is the best example of this around.
        Bought a millionaire and got a shokey.

  11. infused 11

    The billboard stuff is getting a bot out of hand. I use to smack these over when younger… Or try flying through them, but I never wrote stuff like we see today. I never wrote anything in fact

  12. logie97 12

    Who was being racist?

    On television news the other evening, two Asian politicians were approached regarding Peters’ Chinese “joke”.
    One was National List mp Melissa Lee.
    I understand Melissa Lee is Korean, but may be mistaken.
    Were the reporters looking at physical characteristics to determine who should be approached for comment?

    That surely was racist.

  13. john 13

    Surely there are few more appropriate to be approached for comment, than the Secretary for Ethnic Affairs.

    Who is being racist?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      Cameron Slater I expect. If not racist then he’s certainly inciting bigotry against somebody. What do you think of the Prime Minister’s active encouragement of this? How do you like the way it makes your complaints about random acts of hostility sound hollow and dishonest?

      • john 13.1.1

        That’s a pathetically weak attempt to link the appropriateness of whether Melissa Lee should have been interviewed.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.1

          Yeah, but all you right wing bastions of goody goodness fail to address it no matter where it’s pointed out to you.

          Ointment, meet fly.

    • logie97 13.2

      …don’t want to put too fine a point on it but actually Judith Collins holds that position.
      Lee, according to Wiki is “As of 2011 she is Parliamentary Private Secretary for Ethnic Affairs under Judith Collins.”

      • john 13.2.1

        Wrong. Lee is the Secretary for Ethnic Affairs, as I stated (and you just confirmed yourself).

        Collins is the Minister.

        • logie97 13.2.1.1

          Think you will find that Collins should have been fielding those questions…

          http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/mpp/mps/current/50MP169971/lee-melissa
          Lees Current Parliamentary Roles
          Parliamentary Private Secretary for Ethnic Affairs
          Chairperson, Social Services Committee

          A Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) New Zealand Member of Parliament (MP) designated by a senior minister in government or shadow minister to act as the minister’s contact with MPs. This role is junior to that of Parliamentary Under-Secretary, which is a ministerial post, salaried by one or more departments.

      • logie97 13.2.2

        … and the accompanying annotation was “Melissa Lee – National List MP”

  14. TeWhareWhero 14

    I will remind all the right wingers who are upset about the Left’s ‘dirty tactics’, what was said and written about Helen Clark prior to and in the build up to the election that gifted John Key to a grateful nation (that’s sarcasm in case you don’t recognise it) – a lot of it was viciously misogynistic and personally cruel – some of it entered the realm of hate speech.

    The worst things I’ve read about JK’s Jewish heritage have come from the section of the right wing which is so mired in anti-semitism it cannot bring itself to even pretend to support Jews and Israel – unlike the mainstream Right which has suddenly discovered it loves Jews – well, prefers them to Arabs.

    The Right’s current championing of all things Jewish would be amusing if it wasn’t so sinister – how come they didn’t and don’t support the socialist secularists in Israel who want to live in peace with their Arab neighbours – they’re Jewish too.

    I cringed when I heard the Labour candidate claim not to have known the anti-semitic origins of the term Shylock. To defend a bad political move by claiming to be an ignoramus is not a good look – but Cunliffe handled it well. Personally I’d have given the bloke the boot and tell him to go home and do some serious reading.

    • adam 14.1

      I’ve heard Shylock used in popular culture, on TV shows like Justified and Rebba. In both instances it was to describe the Dixie Mafia and their money leading habits. I’m pretty sure the Dixie Mafia won’t allow Jews or people of colour into their organisation. Just an observation into irony, that the right slip into over the top political correctness when ever they feel threatened.

      I seem to remember when I was younger being in dust ups with neo-nazi right wing loony bags. I seem to recall that the national front have held rallies and marches in Christchurch and elsewhere. I seem to recollect that more bat shit crazy right wing loons sprayed nazi and other symbols on the Jewish grave yard in Auckland. Just wondering, why the right thinks it can deflect the all this crap to left wing supporters – when obviously, there house, has such clean hands?

    • Gosman 14.2

      You have evidence it was sanctioned and/or tacitly supported by official National party sources do you?

    • nadis 14.3

      And remember when Helen Clark accused John Key of domestic violence?

      • adam 14.3.1

        Nope, got a source?

        • nadis 14.3.1.1

          You have a very poor memory. For many non-partisan voters it was the defining moment of the 2008 campaign. The point at which a lot of middle voters saw Clark being unpleasant, dishonest and tired for the first time. It was an “oh well, maybe it is time for a change” moment. Every incumbent eventually has one.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/683238/i-Its-all-over-bar-the-shouting-i

          • adam 14.3.1.1.1

            That domestic violence quib, is a piece added by the blogger, not what Clark said. Her jibe was “You might be used to shouting people down at home, but you are not shouting me down.”.

            Please let me say again – Just an observation into irony, that the right slip into over the top political correctness when ever they feel threatened.

            • nadis 14.3.1.1.1.1

              Exactly.

              Are you saying verbal violence doesn’t qualify as domestic violence? Interesting you are at odds with Womens Refuge.

              • adam

                Thank you, I’m glad you agree the right has been slipping into over the top political correctness of late.

                Helen got it wrong with her statement, that is something she has to live with. But to extrapolate it to Helen accusing Key of domestic violence, is over the top. Seriously, stop and reflect on that. It was a inappropriate jibe, nothing more, nothing less.

                Was it Helen who cut funding to Women’s refuge was it?

              • Tracey

                You must have been appalled when key said someone being a victim of attempted rape wasnt a serious issue, thus reneging on his promise to apologise if he knew her name?

                • nadis

                  I agree. MFAT should have appointed someone senior to hand hold the complainant thru the news reports and legal process. McCully or Key should have apologised for the poor way in which the issue has been handled.

                  Would have been the right thing to do but also would have been good politics too. Did Key really say “attempted rape is not a serious issue” or are you inferring that from his lack of an apology?

                  BTW I don’t think the Clark comment was that sinister in itself, no more or less sinister than whats been going on in this campaign, I really only point it out as another example of stupid comments that take on a life of their own and ultimately sometimes have an outsize effect on an election. I think with Clark it was the dischord of such a stupid, dishonest remark being made by her when she very rarely made a public miscalculation.

                  And with the IMP I suspect the posturing may well shore up an IMP vote to 3% but if it scares 5% away from Labour to NZ first or National then it is a bad thing for the left.

                  • felix

                    He said he would not apologise to the victim because he only apologises over serious matters.

                • TheContrarian

                  “You must have been appalled when key said someone being a victim of attempted rape wasnt a serious issue”

                  Wasn’t that Hone Hawera?

                  • felix

                    lolz.

                    Hone, on Backbenches, said there were more important things to talk about. The next day he apologised and said it was wrong of him to say that and he hadn’t meant to trivialise her situation.

                    Key said he would apologise to the victim but he just didn’t know her name, and if he knew her name he definitely totally would. Then when he knew her name he refused, on the grounds that it wasn’t serious enough.

                    Yeah dude, totally worth trying to draw a parallel there…

                    • TheContrarian

                      Well he actually said:

                      “I think all of the media, their heads should roll for making a fuss about bugger all. There’s kids starving in this country, there’s a whole lot of issues that we need to be dealing with right here right now.”

                      It’s sweet though. He apologised and didn’t mean to initially trivilise the issue in the slightest.

                      So lets not get confused about who said what because I am sure if the above had been said by, say, anyone from National you’d accept that they had meant that there were more important things to talk about and they apologised and said it was wrong of them to say that and they hadn’t meant to trivialise her situation.

                      So it’s all good.

        • Puckish Rogue 14.3.1.2

          You don’t remember when John Key trounced Clark in the debates? Theres a surprise

          • adam 14.3.1.2.1

            Nope, I’d been knocked off my bike by a car, and was is Hospital during the election in 2008.

          • felix 14.3.1.2.2

            Obviously inventing a new definition for “trounced”.

            ‘s ok. Language is a dinimic invirimint. And I can always find another linguist with an opposite opinion, except when you ask me to, when suddenly I can’t.

          • framu 14.3.1.2.3

            he didnt trounce clark

            he was expected to do very poorly and it was from that starting assumption that he was considered to have done better than clark – no trounce at all

            why does such simple bloody stuff have to be repeated to you over and over again?

            You really need to pull your head of whaleoils backside

            • Puckish Rogue 14.3.1.2.3.1

              No, Clark tried to save face by saying he was expected to do poorly and because he merely held his own it looked like he’d won, the truth was Key defeated Clark and made her lose her cool

              • felix

                He was expected to do poorly.

                Your “oh look I’ve got a new handle” perspective of history is nothing to be trusted. Go look at what was being said at the time. He was considered a lightweight.

                And no, there was no trouncing. He made it through the debate, and then he just squeaked through the election.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  and yet has managed to win another election and see off Clark, Goff, Shearer and is about to see off Cunliffe

                  Not bad for just squeaking

                  • felix

                    Are you now disputing the closeness of the last two elections?

                    Come on chris, there’s bullshitting to make yourself feel better and then there’s just being a fuckwit.

                  • @ p.r..

                    ..that’s because stupid labour/green voters in epsom failed to engage their brains b4 voting..

                    ..had they ‘engaged’ those brains..and voted for the national candidate..to get rid of the act candidate..

                    ..key would have been a one-term prime minister..act wd b even deader in the water..

                    ..and all of those assets wd not have been flogged off to the elites/lost to the people..

                    ..that was one serious fucken brain-fade on the part of those labour/green voters..

                    ..and i really really hope that they aren’t that stupid..

                    ..as to vote without thinking..again…

  15. And while I’m here – these headlines Headlines on Xtra yesterday – just about sum up the insane world we live in.

    ‘Kate Middelton’s brother making edible selflies’ – the clever little chap has set up a business printing Instagram snaps on marshmallows.

    And,

    ‘Australian Boy in shocking Syrian picture’ – a young boy, reportedly the son of an Australian jihadist in Syria, is seen posing with a Syrian soldier’s head. The story is that Syrian government soldiers captured by the Islamic State jihadists are beheaded and their heads impaled on fences or used as props in pictures that the righteous upholders of Islam post on Twitter and Facebook.

    (It’s funny how these maniacal anti-westerners are so into western media and imagery – e.g. the images of them posing in camp gear, legs spread in front of a dick extension (car) holding a dick extension (gun) in each hand – how much more junk-American could you get?)

    I detest all men of violence and all proselytising religious fundamentalists but I especially detest the sociopathic arseholes who cynically manipulate them.

    So – why are we suddenly seeing these horrifying images splashed all over the internet (on some Christian fundy sites they’re in all their gory glory, on MSM sites the heads are tastefully blocked out) – could it be to do with the Abbott government’s plans to introduce changes to the anti-terrorism laws? You know – the ones that aim at broadening the listing criteria for terrorist organisations, lowering the threshold for arrest without warrant for terrorism offences, extending police and intelligence agencies’ powers to stop, question and detain suspects, and making it easier for the Australian federal police to seek control orders on people returning from fighting abroad.

    The Muslim community in Australia is justifiably appalled at the implications of these changes – so how useful to have proof of Australian jihadists involved in heinous war crimes.

    The stench of hypocrisy is unbearable.

  16. shit..!..robin williams has committed suicide…

  17. Bearded Git 17

    Chris Trotter gets it so right:

    “John Key’s best-case scenario has always been one of mass political somnambulance: in which hundreds of thousands of voters, convinced by the pollsters and their journalistic interpreters that the election was already won, would march, zombielike, into the polling-booths and make the media’s prophecies come true. Kim Dotcom’s unparalleled ability to disturb and disrupt has put this fantastical scenario to the sword. Even worse (from John Key’s perspective) the political spell he has cast cannot now be recalled.”

    Read the whole article here:

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2014/08/fking-john-key-how-kim-dotcom-and.html

    And here Trotter says Cunliffe can do it:

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2014/08/we-have-lift-off-some-thoughts-on.html

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      And Trotter can get it massively wrong as well:

      Small parties without prospect of ever being in a position to formulate the core policies of the state are free to promise voters the diplomatically and economically impossible. The leaders of parties large enough to make a difference have a duty to accept the responsibilities of power.

      I really don’t want to live in a dictatorship.

      • Clemgeopin 17.1.1

        “I really don’t want to live in a dictatorship”

        Neither do I. Nor would I want to see a responsible Labour administration hamstrung and blackmailed by two bit little parties with limited appeal and narrow political harakiri inducing agenda who have nothing much to lose as they can simply put the boot and blame on the main party when the distraught fearful voters kick then out just after a term, gain more ‘feel good’ sympathy and steal lots more party votes off it.

        Smaller the party vote to the smaller parties and smaller the tail, the better, in my carefully considered opinion.

        That is why I will be giving both my votes to Labour this time.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1.1

          That article of his was about land sales to foreigners which seemingly the majority of voters want to stop. Trotters position was that the larger parties should ignore this large majority of voters and do what they choose is best which is dictatorship and not democracy.

          It’s got nothing to do with the smaller parties except that, by agreeing with the majority of voters, they’ll likely to become bigger.

  18. fisiani 18

    I challenge any readers to look at Kiwiblog and the poll of polls graph published today. The graph speaks volumes.The Labour high point was September 13 when there was a leadership challenge. Look at the trend, the oh so important trend as people have got to know The Cunliffe. The optimism here in the face of facts could power the grid. What evidence is there of a groundswell upsurge to Labour. What makes anyone think that The Cunliffe will soundly trounce John Key in the TV debates. What evidence is there that people want an unstable coalition propped up by the extremists Harawira, Harre, Sykes and Minto?
    Do you think the Labour TV ads will trounce the superb National ones.
    National wants as many Party Votes as possible and some here will soon see the light and prove that they love New Zealand and will choose to give a positive vote to National the only Party who are Working for New Zealand.

    • adam 18.1

      Good propaganda, uses short. And long sentences which keep people captivated. Bad propaganda – see above.

      • weka 18.1.1

        lolz. I didn’t get past “I challenge any readers to look at Kiwiblog”

        • Once Was Tim 18.1.1.1

          me either. Petula Clarke immediately sprung to mind: A-wishing and a-hoping…..

          actually when that sprang to mind – so did Populuxe1, and I needed a lay down after perusing his recent expert opinion on all and everything; life and the universe; sugar daddies et al.

    • Bearded Git 18.2

      fisi-the tide has turned with a vengeance in the last 4 weeks. Key has lost control of events.

      See the two Trotter articles I posted above.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.2.1

        Oh well if Trotter says it then it must be true, of course when Trotter was saying negative things about Labour he was vilified…

      • fisiani 18.2.2

        If the tide has turned as you and Trotter believe then the next poll will surely show National at about 43% Labour at 33% Greens 10% and IM 5% with Winston still being the kingmaker.
        My prediction for the election more along the lines of National 48% Labour 26% Greens 9% and IM 2%. I do not think that National will poll over 50%. They will still require support parties.
        It is too late to dump The Cunliffe. Shearer could probably have won. See you in 2017.

        • McFlock 18.2.2.1

          out of interest, how were they going in the weeks before the 2011 election, fistula?

          • Puckish Rogue 18.2.2.1.1

            Good enough to win the election

            • McFlock 18.2.2.1.1.1

              Are they as good this time around?

              Because “almost good enough” is not “good enough”, even with the help of unclecousin and craigslist.

              • Puckish Rogue

                They’re as good as they need to be especially with the extra help KDC and Cunliffes giving National

                • McFlock

                  I’d still like the numbers, though, given that the confidence of a dude who thought banks would walk out of court an innocent man isn’t worth all that much.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    I got the call right, just not the time but how about my predictions about JK winning the election or Shearer beating out Cunliffe etc etc

                    • McFlock

                      I got the call right, just not the time

                      no, you didn’t. You said he wouldn’t be found guilty.

                      As to the other “predictions”, yeah, right. You’re like someone who flips a coin and predicts heads every time, and claims he’s a seer because he’s correct about half the time.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      We’ll see what you’ve got to say when Nationals returned to power

                    • McFlock

                      If that were to happen I would probably say something like “fuck”, because the country will continue going down the toilet.

                      Whereas if key is out on his arse, you’d be sad about not being able to live at the expense of your long-suffering fellow citizens, as well as suddenly finding out that you don’t know half as much as you think you do.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      If Key loses I’ll just get on with building up my capital and generally doing what I’m doing

                      It won’t really make a whole lot of difference to my situation whos in

                    • McFlock

                      not so much a Puck as an Alcibiades, eh.

        • infused 18.2.2.2

          Should have kept Shearer. Actually liked the guy. He was honest.

          Cunliffe is everything to everyone. No one trusts him.

        • phillip ure 18.2.2.3

          yr an idiot fisi..

          ..int/mana are nearly at 5% already..

          ..and things are just kicking off..

          ..’2%’..eh..?

          ..ah well..at least you are in tune with the right-leaning members of labour here..

          ..who have also made that 2%-sneer…

    • minarch 18.3

      getting it out of your system while you still can ?

      Toryettes ?

      • Puckish Rogue 18.3.1

        Still got another 3 odd years to go to get it out of our systems 😉

        • TeWhareWhero 18.3.1.1

          “Still got another 3 odd years to go to get it out of our systems ;-)”

          Yes PR they’ll be very odd years if the last 6 are anything to go by – in fact, not so much odd as awful.

          • Puckish Rogue 18.3.1.1.1

            I always knew the left didn’t like democracy

            • McFlock 18.3.1.1.1.1

              democracy is fine.
              It’s the economic mismanagement and persecution of the victims that pisses me off.

    • Bearded Git 18.4

      fisi-the problem is that even the most recent poll dates from (on average) about 3 weeks ago. I have sensed a change even in those 3 weeks with Labour’s good launch, good policies from the Greens and Labour, Joyce’s arrogant/rude performance and the rise and rise of IMP.

      But I agree it would take a couple of good polls for the left for this to be confirmed. A new Roy Morgan must be pretty close.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.4.1

        A sense…I’ve sensed that Nationals support is strengthening due to people getting more of an idea of what KDC is really like and Labour rolling policies that people see for the unaffordable bribes they are

  19. minarch 19

    The legacy of silk road lives on

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11307503

    Look like high quality MDMA, guess those Dunedin students like a lot of love !

  20. Puckish Rogue 20

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11307015

    • and the faces of some National billboard vandalisers are shown, shining examples of the left 🙂
    • adam 20.1

      Again were, were is the evidence. I see two young men who smashed up some signs. BFW. Their politics is not mentions in piece – your making assumptions. With all the ass that brings.

      • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1

        Smashed up National signs only and, being that they look like small town bogans, they look like IMP or Green party voters (if they could drag themselves out of bed early enough to vote before the polls close that is)

        • adam 20.1.1.1

          Assumptions after the national signs thing. Or is that prejudice? The right showing it’s true colours, and it’s out and out hatred of working class whites – me thinks, yes.

          • vto 20.1.1.1.1

            exactly.

          • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1.2

            You’re assuming they’re working class, I think they’re unemployed bogans

            • adam 20.1.1.1.2.1

              PR your ignorance of language is, a wondrous ballet of violence.

              Bogan is PC for white trash.

              And white trash, are working class. And proud!

              • Puckish Rogue

                Working class are not white trash thank you very much, my family were working class and certainly wern’t trash I can assure you.

                • felix

                  You’ve never really understood how a Venn diagram works, have you?

                • thatguynz

                  So if your family weren’t trash are we to assume that you are the proverbial “black sheep” of the family?

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    You know what they say about assumption…there arn’t any black sheep in my family

          • felix 20.1.1.1.3

            Those young fellas are a couple of legends.

            Hey it’s weird how there’s all these disenfranchised young people who hate John Key, eh? The wealthy baby-boomers who set the parameters for political discourse have been telling us for years that they don’t exist.

            • adam 20.1.1.1.3.1

              +1

            • infused 20.1.1.1.3.2

              It’s funny. I was like that too… and voted Labour. Then I woke up.

              • felix

                Good for you. When I was young I was selfish and thought nothing much mattered beyond the rights of the individual. One individual in particular, of course. 😉

                A lot of young people are like that though. The neoliberal philosophies of National and ACT are little more than a teenager’s perspective of society. Pissing and moaning about cleaning your room as if it’s the greatest injustice on earth to have to tidy up after yourself, while expecting full and unfettered access to everything in the fridge by virtue of your mere existence.

                But you live and you learn. I wouldn’t say it was a dream to be woken from – that’s a facile way to describe the never-ending, confusing, sometimes joyous and sometimes terrifying process of discovering what is and isn’t important.

                • minarch

                  ” Pissing and moaning about cleaning your room as if it’s the greatest injustice on earth to have to tidy up after yourself, while expecting full and unfettered access to everything in the fridge by virtue of your mere existence.”

                  pure gold ! 🙂

            • Gosman 20.1.1.1.3.3

              They are legends because why?

            • Tracey 20.1.1.1.3.4

              Yes, but but but, they arent playing by tge right’s rules….

              • Peter Matthews

                As they’ve made a court appearance I assume those rules your talking about are the rules of law. Do the left play by other rules?

                • felix

                  “the rules of law” my goodness that sounds serious.

                  I think Tracey was referring to the rules of political discourse.

          • El Jorge 20.1.1.1.4

            “The right showing it’s true colours, and it’s out and out hatred of working class whites”

            The Right don’t hate anyone that ‘works’, just the ones that ‘take’

        • framu 20.1.1.2

          “they look like IMP or Green party voters ”

          really?

          thats an incredibly dense thing to say

          let me guess young and a bit poor looking?

        • tricledrown 20.1.1.3

          so how does that equate to the people who are smashing Labour and left billboards

    • vto 20.2

      Shining examples of those left in the ditch (excuse the assumption) by the nasty and mean policies and attitudes of the far right.

      What on earth do you expect? You create a problem then cry like a baby when the problem bites back.

      You lot hate people like this – it is hardly surprising they hate you in return. Wake up fool

      • Puckish Rogue 20.2.1

        Just a couple of scrote bag lefties that were stupid enough to be caught but the reality is most people don’t hate National most people in fact like National, just a minority of drop kicks that can’t understand why everyone doesn’t think likee they do

    • mac1 20.3

      And what do the faces of defacers of Labour billboards look like? I think I can tell you; as I put up a billboard to get jeered at by a ute load of good young farming stock driving by- “That won’t last the night.”

      It didn’t. It disappeared. Stolen. From another farmer’s property.

      So what do they look like? Well, at least the dog on the back of the ute looked intelligent.

  21. Puckish Rogue 21

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/july_public_polls.html

    and if anyone missed it this is the poll of polls and its shows a good trend for Labour 🙂

  22. Weepus beard 22

    Puckish Rogue, you’re spamming, and getting hysterical. Stop it.

  23. Once Was Tim 23

    @PU
    ‘RNZ Afternoon’ (aka ChattyRad) has a locum today. Expect something better than the usual.

  24. small thing 24

    tHIS MITE HELP THE CAMPAIGN

    KEEP LEFT AND VOTE THE SAME WAY
    when you got to the polling to vote

  25. A VOTER 25

    Maybe we could have the election like the vote for the POPE

    Except we all sit round and smoke a joint when its all over

    • i already do that…

      ..not vote for popes..

      ..the other bit..

      • Bearded Git 25.1.1

        In ’87 I did the other bit in style on a hotel rooftop in Cochabamba (Bolivia) when that f@ck$n Thatcher woman got back in.

      • A VOTER 25.1.2

        Yeah but in a huge gathering in public and break a few of Keys fascist laws on all those public protest of a few years ago regarding Austerity in acted by “by the powers Powers “.Bloody prick should have been done for treason .
        Cheers

  26. fisiani 26

    Labours attempted pensioner bribe fails to impress.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11307324

    Matt McCarten’s assumption that this policy would be loved is shown as just a cynical attempt to win office by giving a few dollars to middle to rich income pensioners. Given that most pensioners see the GP just 4 times year they might save just $200/year. but why give $200 to the super rich. This is not a policy it’s just a failed bribe. Kiwis are not stupid they can see when Labour is trying to con them.

    • fisi..fisi..most pensioners live on the pension..

      ..and that is not that much..

      ..so the appeal of this policy will be widespread..

      ..yet another nail in the coffin of the key govt..

    • ianmac 26.2

      Hoi! I am on Super and not rich. Cost about $50 plus $15 for Prescription. Would welcome this.
      On the other hand there are many much worse off than me.
      And the very rich could just use their private insurance and go to their pet GP and leave the free visits for others more needy.
      I be a lucky chap.

    • Funny how rightwing Kiwis have 20/20 vision when it comes to a Labour policy that subsidises health care for pensioners but are as blind as moles when it comes to National’s tax cuts for the already rich.

      • TeWhareWhero 26.3.1

        A lot of pensioners are very poor – I don’t know where you live Fisiani but I see loads of older people in the supermarket counting every thing they put in the trolley trying to make their pittance cover the escalating cost of living. A lot of pensioners put off going to the doctor because they simply can’t afford the doctor’s fee and the cost and effort of getting there. Some have to go every 3 months to have prescriptions for controlled drugs renewed which doctors use as an opportunity to give a general check up.

        As to your worry that this policy is giving money to the already rich – most rich pensioners are likely to vote National, which is the self professed guardian of the public purse, so, as good National supporters and responsible citizens they should pay for their GP visits or claim on their insurance thus saving the funding for the pensioners who need it.

        You have such a dog in the manger attitude.

        • idlegus 26.3.1.1

          what depresses me at the moment is seeing pensioners delivering junk mail, i saw an old guy the other day & he could barely walk delivering mail, its not a high paying job to say the least! its a cruel world if you are poor. fuck you national.

          • Puddleglum 26.3.1.1.1

            I’ve seen the same where I live. A few days ago I saw an old man – clearly of retirement age – doing just such deliveries.

            He didn’t want to look me in the eye.

            • vto 26.3.1.1.1.1

              Yep, we should be ashamed of the society we have in this regard.

              Shameful.

              Mind you, at least John Key is looking out for the underdog and downtrodden ……. bahahahaha… fuck

    • Puddleglum 26.4

      Labours attempted pensioner bribe fails to impress” … The Herald Editor.

      • miravox 26.4.1

        I applaud the move towards univeral rather than targeted benefits, which free primary care for pensioners and the family policies seem to be signalling.

        Much less divisive and therefore more durable in terms of societal approval, especially for those in the middle who sit around the probable abatement levels.

        Universal benefits at an entry level into services might(?) not that much more expensive than targeted benefits, given the administration costs of targeting.

    • tricledrown 26.5

      Since National has put the price of prescriptions and doctors visits up it has probably given labour an extra 100,000 votes!
      when those doctors visits are costing up to $100 per visit including multiple prescriptions its smart policy

  27. A VOTER 27

    Something that might speed things up is cutting the money political parties get to promote themselves and we as the voters just give them a day off on polling day and they can make and pay for the time they use on tv by using the broadcasting budget responsibly rather than sending their employees on unnecessary trips around the country, thats both the parties and broadcasters terribly boring but so is listening to a load of brainless posturing by politicians when we could have a few sessions on the manifestos of each party reviewed by some political “experts” on television of course it will take hrs because of the advertising but may be Crosby Textor could shut down the advertising for Key so that we might get a modicom of reality in this election and the tax payer funded usage of television time, yes some companies do pay tax ,might actually be worth something ,it mite even start the use of television as a tool for community education cause even the net is getting pretty fucked with the amount of stuff being censored and unbelievable time consuming sites that tell you next to nothing of value

  28. ianmac 28

    Good Stuff!
    Last night there was a great little program on Maori TV looking at the influence of Polls.
    Lead by Stacey Morrison (good!) with Gavin White UMR, Prof Thomas Lumley, and Winston.
    Winston was very informed and raised some of the issues discussed here in the past.
    “Re-Think examines the role of political polls in our democratic system and looks hard at claims that they may not be accurate and can have an influence in the election outcomes.”
    http://www.maoritelevision.com/tv/shows/re-think/S01E012/re-think-series-1-episode-12
    <30minutes long.

    • Murray Olsen 29.1

      It’s great to see Israelis and Jews outside Israel refusing to join Bibi’s ride to destruction. The fact that they are doing this will also help stem the anti-semitism that sometimes grows among people who are pro-peace and pro-Palestinian. As far as I know, the movements against war have existed for a long time in Israel, but have not been reported. With the rise of social media, the news is getting out.

      Meanwhile in Britain, Zionists march with fascists such as the BNP and extremists such as UKIP, united by a hatred of Muslims. Things seem to be polarising, just like the 1930s.

  29. Populuxe1 30

    How fascinating that IMP should have so quickly snapped up the chief architect of New Zealand First’s “Yellow Peril” nonsense…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11307780

    • Murray Olsen 30.1

      That’s funny, Winston First began 6 years before Frank Perry got involved. I seem to remember Winston raving on about the mansions in Howick from somewhere around the beginning. Still, I don’t take stuff you write at face value, so no harm done.

  30. poor kiwi senior. 31

    To Gosman,
    Puckish rougue
    Fiscani.
    You are all are NatZ spinners.

    How much does mister Key and co pay you?

    I need a job. Maybe I as a senior I could make some easy money too?

    You see I am a disadvantaged disabled pensioner that can hardly afford to live on the pittance my pension gives us to live on so I want to know how much are they paying for this job of yours?

    I cant even afford to get my teeth fixed so maybe you can help me get some easy money you’re making?

  31. weka 32

    Felix, I see Darren Watson’s FB page about the police telling a radio station to not play his Planet Key song is down. As is Watson’s FB page. I don’t use FB, but is that normal if someone is say removing content? Did anyone take a copy last night?

    Video is still up on vimeo.

    Felix’s comment yesterday http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11082014/#comment-864345

  32. feijoa 33

    Well, heh, those billboard defacers eh??

    Methinks I can hear the beginnings of the sound of pitchforks rattling

    Watch out you righties, even if Key gets in , it aint going to pretty anymore…….

  33. weka 34

    Does anyone know if the IMP party list is out yet? I can’t find it online. I have the lists for IP and Mana separately but not a combined one.

  34. Draco T Bastard 36

    The Myth of Ownership: Taxes and Justice

    ABSTRACT
    In a capitalist economy, taxes are the most significant instrument by which the political system can put into practice a conception of economic justice. But conventional ideas about what constitutes tax fairness–found in the vigorous debates about tax policy going on in political and public policy circles, in economics and law–are misguided. In particular, the emphasis on distributing the tax burden relative to pretax income is a fundamental mistake. Taxation does not take from people what they already own. Property rights are the product of a set of laws and conventions, of which the tax system forms a central part, so the fairness of taxes can’t be evaluated by their impact on preexisting entitlements. Pretax income has no independent moral significance. Standards of justice should be applied not to the distribution of tax burdens but to the operation and results of the entire framework of economic institutions. The result is an entirely different understanding of a host of controversial issues, such as the estate tax, the tax treatment of marriage, “flat” versus progressive taxes, consumption versus income taxes, tax cuts for the wealthy, and negative income taxes for the poor.

    Sounds like a must read book for those of us interested in a better economic system.

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