Open Mike 12/11/2016

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1. Jenny 1

   12 November 2016 at 7:04 am

   On the good news front

   Auckland Council passes historic vote to oppose deep sea oil drilling

   Thursday, November 10: Auckland Council has just voted to oppose the Government’s offshore oil agenda in New Zealand, for the first time ever.
   The vote this morning saw 14 councillors including, new Mayor Phil Goff, pass an amendment to oppose oil prospecting, exploration and drilling in New Zealand, while only 7 voted in support of it.
   Greenpeace campaigner, Steve Abel, who spoke at the meeting, says the win is historic and decisive, and sends a clear signal that the John Key Government’s oil agenda is not supported.
   “This is a massive result. It means two of the biggest councils in the country have now come out in strong defiance of the Government’s climate-destroying policy of searching for the oil we can’t burn if we are to have a future for our children,” he says.
   “If the Government does not pay attention to this it would be an insult to democracy, it would expose the consultation as a sham, and it would be straight up climate denial.”
   Last week, Christchurch City Council opposed oil drilling, with only one dissenting vote in favour of it.
   And in 2015, Kaikoura, Dunedin and Gisborne Councils also voted to oppose offshore oil activity.
   Abel says Auckland’s new Mayor Phil Goff should be congratulated.
   “Last year, Mayor Len Brown let us down, with his vote being the decisive vote in Auckland Council not opposing oil drilling,” he says.
   “Today the new Auckland Council has taken this opportunity to define itself as serious about taking climate action. And Mayor Goff stood with the growing swell of New Zealanders who see that a continued search for oil that we can’t afford to burn is craziness given the climate emergency we face.”
   Auckland Council’s vote to oppose oil drilling in New Zealand will now be submitted to Central Government to consider for the 2017 Block Offer process, which decides which tracts of New Zealand ocean will be opened up to oil companies.
   ENDSAuckland Council passes historic vote to oppose deep sea oil drilling
   Thursday, November 10: Auckland Council has just voted to oppose the Government’s offshore oil agenda in New Zealand, for the first time ever.
   The vote this morning saw 14 councillors including, new Mayor Phil Goff, pass an amendment to oppose oil prospecting, exploration and drilling in New Zealand, while only 7 voted in support of it.

   Greenpeace campaigner, Steve Abel, who spoke at the meeting, says the win is historic and decisive, and sends a clear signal that the John Key Government’s oil agenda is not supported.
   “This is a massive result. It means two of the biggest councils in the country have now come out in strong defiance of the Government’s climate-destroying policy of searching for the oil we can’t burn if we are to have a future for our children,” he says.
   “If the Government does not pay attention to this it would be an insult to democracy, it would expose the consultation as a sham, and it would be straight up climate denial.”

   Last week, Christchurch City Council opposed oil drilling, with only one dissenting vote in favour of it.
   And in 2015, Kaikoura, Dunedin and Gisborne Councils also voted to oppose offshore oil activity.

   Abel says Auckland’s new Mayor Phil Goff should be congratulated.
   “Last year, Mayor Len Brown let us down, with his vote being the decisive vote in Auckland Council not opposing oil drilling,” he says.
   “Today the new Auckland Council has taken this opportunity to define itself as serious about taking climate action. And Mayor Goff stood with the growing swell of New Zealanders who see that a continued search for oil that we can’t afford to burn is craziness given the climate emergency we face.”

   Auckland Council’s vote to oppose oil drilling in New Zealand will now be submitted to Central Government to consider for the 2017 Block Offer process, which decides which tracts of New Zealand ocean will be opened up to oil companies.
   ENDS

   Mike Smith Greenpeace
   • Jenny 1.1

     12 November 2016 at 7:40 am

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0rZ2CPCYBQ
   • Robert Guyton 1.2

     12 November 2016 at 8:09 am

     Now that’s really something!
     I’ve emailed the good news to all of the Southland Regional councillors and will move that we do as Auckland and Christchurch have done, at our Wednesday meeting (at which there are three public delegations addressing the council on this very issue.
   • save nz 1.3

     12 November 2016 at 8:38 am

     Yay! Auckland councillors did something good!
     • Molly 1.3.1

       12 November 2016 at 9:45 pm

       These are the councillors that need to be persuaded to do the right thing for the rest of their term:

       Deputy Mayor Bill Cashmore
       Denise Lee
       Daniel Newman
       Dick Quax
       Desley Simpson
       Sharon Stewart
       John Walker

       If they are your representatives get in contact and tell them to catch up with reality.
       Emails: firstname.lastname@aucklandcouncil.govt.nz

       All the others can be sent a quick “Well done” if you are of a mind to.

       Councillors who voted against exploration:
       Cathy Casey
       Ross Clow
       Efeso Collins
       Linda Cooper
       Chris Darby
       Alf Filipaina
       Chris Fletcher
       Mayor Phil Goff
       Richard Hills
       Penny Hulse
       Mike Lee
       Greg Sayers
       Wayne Walker
       John Watson
   • weka 1.4

     12 November 2016 at 9:16 am

     There’s a post up now.

     Jenny, please link (and preferably post a piece of what you are linking to not the whole thing).
     • Jenny 1.4.1

       12 November 2016 at 11:36 am

       My sincere apologies. Without giving too much away. If I had, had a link at the time, I would have posted it. You can transfer my comments to your new Thread.

       Cheers Jenny
2. Jenny 2

   12 November 2016 at 7:20 am

   Turn up the volume.

   First we take Auckland then we take Wellington

   “They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom, trying to take the system from within”

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0rZ2CPCYBQ
3. Richard Rawshark 3

   12 November 2016 at 8:13 am

   Imagine a scenario, you move to NZ, want to help the community and you join the National party with all the good intent in the world, your brown and your anti racism.

   It’s long shot, more likely wanted to be snobs, and be judgemental to others.

   Suddenly someone tells you a few things that concern you about the party you join..

   I hope Parmjeet and her husband are right now, using there heads and deciding they have been fooled and drop out of National.

   These people need to wonder why it is, there are so few ethnicities in National.

   When you actually look at The Hearald and National(both have gone hand in hand though the history of political NZ), in a standing back from it way. WOW whites only..
   • james 3.1

     12 November 2016 at 8:17 pm

     “Suddenly someone tells you a few things that concern you about the party you join”

     Richie – you see most people can work out things for themselves – they dont need to be told by someone – especially someone who is ill informed and trying to be smug that they know everything and that the choices others are making are wrong – so they have to be told.

     Parmjeet and husband I am sure are quite happy with their choices and there is zero chance of them dropping out.

     “These people need to wonder why it is, there are so few ethnicities in National”

     So just for giggles – to to the labour party website – dont see any indian folk in their team. For that you have to go to National.

     Perhaps you should ask the same question – but of different parties….
4. The Chairman 4

   12 November 2016 at 8:34 am

   Chloe Swarbrick sets sights on Auckland electorate seat
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/86359009/chloe-swarbrick-sets-sights-on-auckland-electorate-seat
   • save nz 4.1

     12 November 2016 at 8:48 am

     ‘m not really a cheerleader of Chloe I have to say. She was propelled by National loving Spinoff and many blogs into the limelight and her fresh face and youth may have mean’t some people failed to examine her policies which are more Green Lite, development focused and ACT (for the Mayoral race).

     I sense that their might be conflict by old school Greens voters who actually care about the environment. Thinking that saving the environment is about a cycle lane in Auckland, making poorer areas and people pay congestion charges and “help a developer, help save poverty”. Now it’s trains for the very rich, very migrant North Shore in Auckland.

     Chloe isn’t a person out there in the forests saving the environment, doing community service or protesting against the establishment.

     This is someone who is the youth member of the establishment who studies law, has a social marketing firm, fashion line and is the darling of the MSM.

     It’s possible she might get an electorate seat in Auckland, but equally possible she might come second or third, and instead alienate existing Green party voters who really believe in the Green movement and don’t want to be represented by Developer friendly Green Lite.

     Sue Bradford would be a better choice for anti-establishment and authenticity.

     Or David Cunliffe – at least they would win the seat.
     • Visubversa 4.1.1

       12 November 2016 at 9:14 am

       Chloe is a marketer and so far she has done a very good job of marketing herself. Howevr, she does not say anything that a lot of other young and old environmental activists have not said before, and it is a pity she has used the Mayoral contest to boost her own public profile. I hope she is not using the Green Party for the same thing. Also, I hope that the wise heads in the Greens will not be dazzled by her to the extent that they do something stupid and jeopardise the agreements they currently have with Labour.
       • Penny Bright 4.1.1.1

         12 November 2016 at 11:06 am

         Chloe Swarbrick supports privatisation via Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs).

         Has the Green Party now adopted Chloe Swarbrick’s ‘pragmatic’ politics and do the Green Party now support privatisation via PPPs?

         In my view – the voting public need to know ASAP.

         Penny Bright

         ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’.
         • The Chairman 4.1.1.1.1

           12 November 2016 at 12:48 pm

           Good question, Penny.

           Anybody from the Greens care to take that on?
         • KJT 4.1.1.1.2

           12 November 2016 at 6:27 pm

           No
     • save nz 4.1.2

       12 November 2016 at 9:16 am

       In fact if Greens were really smart and if the rumours are true that Metiria is leaving, then Greens should do anything they can to secure Cunliffe as Green’s leader.

       That would also help Labour now they have the MoU. Little and Cunliffe would be a very compelling offering to voters in NZ. Not too radical but a genuine push for genuine change. Both men are authentic so although they are not anti establishment they are still appealing to those who want change.

       I have no doubt that Cunliffe is disgusted with politics and would be very reluctant to go back, but what about getting rid of Key and saving NZ – maybe he can be persuaded it is worth the personal sacrifice for the greater good?
       • Stephanie Rodgers 4.1.2.1

         12 November 2016 at 10:13 am

         Um, you do know David Cunliffe is a man, right?
         • save nz 4.1.2.1.1

           12 November 2016 at 11:08 am

           I think a lot of people would vote for an black and white muslim asian ant rather than some establishment IYI careerist at this point..

           Voters are sick of ‘tick box’ candidate selection panel – it is about what the candidate has done, what they stand for, if they understand the voters and how they articulate that, that counts.

           Yes, I think the whole country know Cunliffe is a man – and most voters don’t care about that, if his Labour members had supported him publicly instead of personal political power and media grabs, we might have had a different election result.
           • Chuck 4.1.2.1.1.1

             12 November 2016 at 11:58 am

             Green Party co-leaders policy follows the principals of Yin Yang.

             http://thetaoofgender.blogspot.co.nz/2006/12/i-write-on-male-and-female-behavior.html

             So can not be a male / male or female / female combo.
     • The Chairman 4.1.3

       12 November 2016 at 10:10 am

       I’m not cheer-leading for Chloe.

       But she does have her supporters.

       Her desire to run in an electoral seat (if supported by the Greens) will put new pressure on Labour to stand aside.

       Seeing as the Greens are welcoming her on-board and you sense it may lead to a conflict, does that mean you also sense a divide (similar to Labour’s) forming within the Greens?

       Your suggestion of Cunliffe going with the Greens is an interesting one.

       The announcement of TOP and Cunliffe standing down from Labour got me wondering for a moment there.
       • save nz 4.1.3.1

         12 November 2016 at 11:22 am

         @Chairman – If Cunliffe was the leader of the Greens, with Labour & Little, (and stay off attacking white homeowners and the middle class), they would defeat Key. Just like Sanders and Clinton genuinely united would have bet Trump.

         Imagine Key’s face if he had to debate with Cunliffe again in the next election – more priceless than when his beloved TPP was announced dead in the water!

         Labour has lost their voters over the last decade because they spent too much time trying to gather new voters and neglected their existing voters. The spend too much time analysing IYI stuff, hanging out with media and PR, and not in touch with their electorates who do not engage with politics on a regular basis. Under Little this is changing which is good for Labour.

         Greens are running this voter risk of alienating existing voters. They have too many ‘branded’ politicians – Metiria barrister, Shaw ex Coco Cola and now Chloe marketer who doesn’t stand for anything Green.

         6 years ago Chloe might have worked, now there is visible anger at the establishment and careerist candidates that look more like they are working for themselves rather than their community.

         I don’t know enough about Chloe to write her off, but so far she actually makes me angry not because she is a bad person but because she does not seem deserving or authentic and she is being propelled by the same propaganda machine that keeps getting the left and middle vote wrong which keeps the right in power.
         • The Chairman 4.1.3.1.1

           12 November 2016 at 12:46 pm

           There was talk the Greens were moving more to the centre, especially when Bradford left and Shaw was selected as co leader.

           Which some believe (moving more to the centre) helped them secure their MOU with Labour.

           I’m sure a number will see welcoming Chloe on-board as more evidence of that.

           In an attempt to grow their support and wider appeal, the Greens need to ensure they don’t fall into the same pit as Labour.  

           So far, they seem to have largely held it together.
           • save nz 4.1.3.1.1.1

             12 November 2016 at 1:25 pm

             I hope you are right Chairman about the Greens. Remember Chloe is no Bernie Sanders – in the Auckland mayoral election where most people did not vote, Chloe came third, not exactly convincing.

             I might be old fashioned but I think that people should actually deserve to get a place, by doing something worthwhile.

             What Labour and Greens do not realise is that the vote is not just against National or each other, it is actually selecting a candidate that people can get excited to vote for. It’s the disgusted voter who has refused to vote for anyone, they need to capture.

             Chloe may not be a disaster, but like the ‘peak flag’ incident, trust is everything and it could be a wasted opportunity for the Greens to get someone who activates and motivates people to vote.

             Auckland showed she was not that person.
5. Ad 5

   12 November 2016 at 8:42 am

   Leonard Cohen music is the best way to commemorate Leonard Cohen.

   Such a melancholic weekend.
   • adam 5.1

     12 November 2016 at 2:07 pm

     Try this Ad, might just pick you up.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYxe_OVAQt0
   • Robertina 5.2

     12 November 2016 at 3:08 pm

     Yes.

     In My Secret Life:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NfF5N6IcoE

     Closing Time:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-0lV5qs1Qw

     A Thousand Kisses Deep:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3GFC_DgtuY
6. Morrissey 6

   12 November 2016 at 9:43 am

   Leading thinker calls Armistice Day “a momentous moment in history.”

   Five years ago Hekia Parata became acting Minister of Energy and Resources. It would surprise no one who has witnessed her disastrous tenure as Minister of Education that she was inept, perhaps never more so than when she tried to explain to Kathryn Ryan why deepsea oil drilling was a good idea…

   “Well, ahhhh, ummmm, it includes a variety of various variables. We have a suite of variables. Ahhhhh, look, we are a first world nation and that means exploring and exploiting the opportunities available to us. Ummmm, there is a suite of measures… Ahhh, ummmm,.. look, aahhhhmmm, look… you know… aaaahhhhhmmmm…” [1]

   I have always thought that, other than listening to any random five minutes of NewstalkZB’s resident clown Leighton Smith, that was the single most extraordinary example of blithering verbal incompetence I had ever heard.

   Then, yesterday afternoon (Friday 11.11.16), this message played on the radio…..

   GILBERT ENOKA: [intoning sententiously over a bed of plangent orchestral music] Armistice Day is a momentous moment in history….It’s the only time the All Blacks don’t swap their jerseys after a game, it’s when they have the poppy on them.

   Point to Ponder: Gilbert Enoka is a “mental skills coach.”

   [1] https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30082011/#comment-369467
7. Rosemary McDonald 7

   12 November 2016 at 10:15 am

   Kim Hill doing what she does best this morning…

   ….great post election interview with Lamia Imam…http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201823553/lamia-imam

   and a great Him Kill bout with veteran Republican insider Dick Allen….http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201823555/dick-allen

   I doubt if any other broadcaster in Aotearoa could impart such…. meaning…. into the name “Dick.”

   Now interviewing Tame Iti.
   • Morrissey 7.1

     12 November 2016 at 10:42 am

     I found Richard V. Allen to be a sinister and malevolent person. He has history with Kim Hill, who flirted with him on her television show back in 2003. After this morning’s horror, I sent her the following email….

     Dear Kim,

     It was a moment of grim black comedy to hear Richard V. Allen assuring Lamia Imam that she was “perfectly safe” going out in Austin tonight. On a day that the Klan is staging a victory parade in North Carolina, and junior high students are chanting “Build that wall!” to taunt Latino classmates, that was a statement of unforgiveable complacency.

     Even funnier, or more troubling perhaps, were his descriptions of Ronald Reagan as “a thinker and a writer” and of Jeanne Kirkpatrick as an “eminent scholar”.

     Yours in disgust,

     Morrissey Breen
     Northcote Point
8. Penny Bright 8

   12 November 2016 at 10:53 am

   A new slogan for Auckland?

   How about ‘Auckland – $upercity for the 1%’?

   http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11746553

   Why we need to get rid of ALL Auckland ‘Council Controlled Organisations’
   (CCOs), and bring their functions back under direct Auckland Council control under the genuine ‘public service’ (not corporate welfare) model.

   We the public never voted for CCOs or those who run them.

   CCOs have been the mechanism for the effective corporate takeover of the Auckland region – which is being run ‘like a business – by business – for business’.

   ‘Auckland – $upercity for the 1%’

   There you go!

   Short, sharp and deadly truthful.

   (Also – FREE!)

   First came up with slogan / banner during the ‘Occupy Auckland’ occupation at Aotea Square.

   Penny Bright
9. Penny Bright 9

   12 November 2016 at 11:09 am

   A new slogan for Auckland?

   How about ‘Auckland – $upercity for the 1%’?

   http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11746553

   Why we need to get rid of ALL Auckland ‘Council Controlled Organisations’
   (CCOs), and bring their functions back under direct Auckland Council control under the genuine ‘public service’ (not corporate welfare) model.

   We the public never voted for CCOs, the CCO model, or those who run them.

   CCOs have been the mechanism for the effective corporate takeover of the Auckland region – which is being run ‘like a business – by business – for business’.

   ‘Auckland – $upercity for the 1%’

   There you go!

   Short, sharp and deadly truthful.

   (Also – FREE!)

   (First came up with slogan / banner during the ‘Occupy Auckland’ occupation at Aotea Square).

   Penny Bright

   ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog’.
10. marty mars 10

    12 November 2016 at 11:44 am

    More rwnj trump bullshit spamming the site. As a leftie this is fucken bullshit. Why would I come here to read that crap,why? Hint i wont and neither will my friends and fellow activists. Already the place is full of the dominant group in society dominating. Probably be banned – don’t even care. I am sick to death of this site being tainted by misogynist, racist, right-wing trump supporting bullshit. I’ll vote with my feet.
    • weka 10.1

      12 November 2016 at 1:27 pm

      I sympathise marty. Lots of other good, important leftwing/progressive posts up today, hope there is something there that meets you.
      • marty mars 10.1.1

        12 November 2016 at 1:28 pm

        Yeah sorry for the rant. Ive settled down now ☺
        Good posts up thanks.
        • weka 10.1.1.1

          12 November 2016 at 1:44 pm

          Please don’t apologise, it needs to be said.
        • miravox 10.1.1.2

          12 November 2016 at 11:37 pm

          Phew. Glad you’ve settled down. I’d miss you if you walked away.
    • Richard Rawshark 10.2

      12 November 2016 at 4:32 pm

      If we ever got together Marty, our combined anger and frustration would be a sight to behold.

      Fear the Left, we are not amused.

      [lprent: Fear the sysop for they are not amused. See here ]
11. ianmac 11

    12 November 2016 at 11:50 am

    A bright spot from Fran O’Sullivan – again.
    “Get a grip out there. There is a distinct possibility that – however distasteful and ethically challenged Donald Trump appears – his presidency may turn out to be good for business.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11746643
    • miravox 11.1

      12 November 2016 at 11:39 pm

      “his presidency may turn out to be good for business”

      As did Pinochet’s.
12. ianmac 12

    12 November 2016 at 11:59 am

    And anyone see this yesterday?
    “Investigative journalist Nicky Hager has been awarded interim legal costs towards $475,082 spent suing police.”…..”Alternatively, they asked for costs on a reduced scale of $232,672.78.Justice Denis Clifford awarded the lower level of costs…”
    Good news and those who donated about $67,000 will be pleased too.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/86374200/nicky-hager-gets-interim-costs-award-against-police-for-illegal-search-case
    • save nz 12.1

      12 November 2016 at 3:50 pm

      Yay for justice and Nicky Hager!
    • Manuka AOR 12.2

      12 November 2016 at 7:52 pm

      So, it’s just his legal costs that have been awarded? Not much joy there.
13. Robertina 13

    12 November 2016 at 12:12 pm

    An excellent interview on Kim Hill today with Jon O’Brien, who works within the Catholic Church to reform its approach to birth control and abortion.
    He points out the church has stopped preaching from the pulpit about contraception and abortion, because it’s lost the argument, at least in Western countries, and now uses backdoor measures to make it harder to access them, such as the lobbying over Obamacare.
    It’s timely with Trump being beholden to the religious right and the threat to Planned Parenthood funding.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201823558/jon-o'brien
14. mosa 14

    12 November 2016 at 12:14 pm

    Our friends in America are suffering a new illness.

    P T S D – Post Trump stress disorder and the symptoms will last 4 to 8 years.

    Effects are severe night terrors and campaign flashbacks, depression then rage and an orange tinge appearing on the skin.
15. Robertina 15

    12 November 2016 at 1:29 pm

    Silly me – I managed to forget that US election stuff isn’t supposed to be posted in Open Mike.
    • weka 15.1

      12 November 2016 at 1:49 pm

      Can you please repost it in one of the other threads? Then I will delete this one. Good points btw.
      • Robertina 15.1.1

        12 November 2016 at 1:51 pm

        Done, thanks.
16. Richard Rawshark 16

    12 November 2016 at 4:26 pm

    Classic tweet from somewhere in the USA

    Right now, if a clown invited me into the woods, i’d go.

    hahahahahahaah
17. Manuka AOR 17

    12 November 2016 at 8:12 pm

    On Tuesday night 15th November (our time) will be the closest full moon to earth since 1948. If you are one of those people who often feel the full moon effects, take care. It can be a time of heightened sensitivity and of stronger emotions for some people. If you’re one of those, I hope you use this time – the next few days – wisely and well.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/super-full-moon.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/nov/10/the-science-of-supermoons-the-lunar-lowdown-on-the-biggest-and-brightest-in-60-years

    https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/new-zealand/auckland
18. Jenny 18

    12 November 2016 at 11:06 pm

    Disgraceful.

    Colonial Viper gives his open support, (and by association this website’s) to a blood soaked dictator, guilty of torture, and mass murder’

    Censorship, banning, and lies, coupled with personal attacks and character assassination are the tools Colonial Viper uses to avoid any balanced assessment or rational debate of the tragedy engulfing Syria. This sort of unbalanced behaviour only exposes the weakness of Colonial Viper (and this website’s position on Syria).

    Some may think that it is unfair to accuse the site of sharing Colonial Viper’s support for genocide. But this website steadfastly refused to put up a post advertising the Syrian refugees protest against the regime, refusing to give the victims of the Assad regime a voice.

    https://iso.org.nz/2016/10/30/wellington-solidarity-with-syria/

    Colonial Viper makes his case for his Final Solution in Syria.

    ”Russia and the US working together with Assad will end this once and for all.”
    Colonial Viper The Trump peace dividend: opportunity for rapprochement
    1.

    ” The foreign jihadists in Syria have about 2 months of unencumbered operations left.
    Then they have about 2 months of getting pounded into the dirt by a combination of US, Russian and Syrian munitions.”
    Colonial Viper The Trump peace dividend: opportunity for rapprochement

    To be able to keep promoting his unbalanced one eyed argument in support of mass murder, and to make his case for a US/Russia Axis to continue and intensify the aerial genocide conducted against the Syrian people for standing up against . Colonial Viper, rather than engaging in rational debate again resorts to bans and censorship.

    

    Jenny 3.3.1
    12 November 2016 at 2:43 pm
    As much as I admire John Pilger, when it comes to Syria, Pilger is actually morally and factually wrong. His mistake is that he is working from an outdated paradigm, and has let his (immensely justified) hatred of US Imperialism blind him to the actual situation. Which sees him lining up with a murderous regime purportedly because it is anti- American.
    Would an anti-American regime allow itself to be the most favoured destination for victims of CIA flights of Extraordinary Rendition?
    Would an anti-American regime put 19,000 Syrian soldiers under US command as one of the original members of the “Coalition of the Willing”?
    Would an anti-American regime open up its economy at the behest of the IMF and privatise and sell off its state Assets?
    I could go on.
    To fit his simplistic and outdated narrative John Pilger just simply ignores all of these facts.
    [Hi Jenny, I’m banning you off this post now. I’ve had enough of your ridiculous and continuous claims that Syria and the USA are in fact secret friends or allies. Thanks. CV]

    So let us take this rare opportunity to make a right of reply to Colonial Viper’s continuing accusation that my claims are “ridiculous” and do a fact check.

    ”Would an anti-American regime allow itself to be the most favoured destination for victims of CIA flights of Extraordinary Rendition?”

    Syria was one of the “most common destinations for rendered suspects,” as were Egypt and Jordan. One Syrian prison facility contained individual cells that were roughly the size of coffins. Detainees report incidents of torture involving a chair frame used to stretch the spine (the “German chair”) and beatings.
    https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordinary-facts-about-cia-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention

    Iran and Syria are identified by the OSJI as having participated in the rendition programme. Syria is said to have been one of the “most common destinations for rendered suspects”, while Iran is said to have participated in the CIA’s programme by handing over 15 individuals to Kabul shortly after the US invasion of Afghanistan, in the full knowledge that they would fall under US control.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/05/cia-rendition-countries-covert-support
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

    Would an anti-American regime put 19,000 Syrian soldiers under US command as one of the original members of the “Coalition of the Willing”?

    The 1991 Gulf War coalition included 34 countries, many of whom provided substantial military assistance, and many of whom were from the Arab world. Twenty-one of those 34 countries do not support U.S. efforts this time, including France, which sent 17,000 troops, and Syria which sent 19,000 troops in 1991.
    http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a/The%20Coalition%20of%20the%20Willing.htm

    Although serious concerns about Syria`s record on terrorism and human rights continue to trouble the relationship with Washington, Assad finds himself courted by the Bush administration.
    President Bush met with him in Geneva in November, and Secretary of State James A. Baker III arrives Wednesday in Damascus for his third visit since the gulf crisis erupted in August.
    The Bush administration credits Syria with helping to restrain terrorist groups that might have targeted U.S. and other Western interests during the war with Iraq.
    The newly forged relationship with the U.S. provides a balance in Syrian foreign policy that had been lacking.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-03-12/news/9101220963_1_syria-president-hafez-assad-peacekeeping-force

    Would an anti-American regime open up its economy at the behest of the IMF and privatise and sell off its state Assets?

    Information leaked by the Panama Papers revealed that Rami Makhlouf, President Bashar Assad’s cousin, has been largely benefiting from the recent wave of privatizations. He has acquired key economic industries in the country, such as oil and communication networks. He represents a sector of the bourgeoisie that has made $4 million in net profits and hidden them in Swiss banks. The Assad family, nebulous is indisputably corrupt and has made its fortune cooperating with the imperialist privatization project.
    http://litci.org/en/rami-makhlouf-a-corruption-poster-boy/

    [take a month off for spamming the site, a bunch of self-martydom offences, and wasting moderator time again – weka]
19. weka 19

    12 November 2016 at 11:24 pm

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election – weka]

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