Open mike 12/12/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 12th, 2011 - 99 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

99 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2011”

  1. Yesterday’s Auckland meet the candidate meeting was an enjoyable event.  Radio NZ estimated that there were 600 people present although I would have thought there was a few less than that but not by much.

    The candidates all spoke.  No guess who I thought was by far the best.

    Reform of the party was discussed in detail by David Cunliffe.  His suggestion that the leadership should include a vote by all members received a large cheer.

    The biggest cheer was reserved for Carmel Sepuloni who made a triumphant entry.  She did really well.  Despite comments to the contrary Waitakere is not naturally a Labour seat.  There is a wealthy area in Henderson Heights that voted heavily for the tories and the rural area also has pockets of very wealthy areas.

    Nanaia Mahuta presentation was different to the others and she presented extraordinarily well.  If people are looking for a “non political” politician she is the real deal.

    Hopefully now all MPs will consider the views of their activists when they decide who to support.  If they do not there will be some tension caused as these meetings have raised huge expectations on the part of members that their views will be taken into account.

    All in all these meetings have been a tremendous success.  Party President Moira Coatesworth should be praised for the initiative. 

    • Damos 1.1

      I hear that Darien Fenton is voting for David Shearer, I thought she was well supported by the union movement and aren’t they supportive of the Cunliffe/Mahuta nomination? 

      It’s a pity your MPs aren’t required to make their vote public, that’d change a few minds and I bet you Fenton would vote Cunliffe in that case. Strange, still, she’ll be shuffled off either way now I suspect.  

      • mickysavage 1.1.1

        You will have to ask Darien this.  It is strange that a “left winger” would vote for the “right” candidate.
        Speaking of strange how is this for a comment by Cactus Kate.  She has written a very perceptive post concerning Labour’s battle.
        In particular this deserves repeating:

        In one corner Cunliffe, the man who was chosen to front the cornerstone CGT policy and he did a pretty brilliant job. Shame for them the voters thought the policy was tits, but his performance in explaining the policy in the video campaign was flawless. He is a man who I guess thinks he has done everything he has to in order to be named Leader.

        Shearer on the other hand is a poor red man’s Smile and Wave. And there is nothing wrong with that but the man lacks substance for sure and simply parrots out he’s the good guy solely because he worked for a good whack of US tax free dollars for the UN. He clearly lacks political judgment, no easier example being on the Sunday after the election turning up to Matthew Hooton’s now infamous corporate BBQ.

        Just like Goff, Shearer can’t answer the hard economic questions. Neither can Robertson. Both have a far too generalized skill set for the job of the next three years which is to undermine National’s performance with respect to economic issues. Labour need to choose Cunliffe to fight this battle because he is the only one in the front bench with the economic mongrel to do it.

        I find myself in the unusual position that I could not agree more with Cactus.

        • Damos

          Ardern is voting for Shearer as well?? What is up with these people? I can’t believe your guys are actually in a contest over this, it should be Cunliffe and Mahuta if you’re smart. Ardern and Fenton voting with Shearer, have they actually listened to their membership?  

        • Colonial Viper

          the economic mongrel

          I thought this was a label applicable to Key and English 😛

          • Draco T Bastard

            Nope, Key has NFI what economics is and Blinglish is showing himself to be just as inept.

        • RobM

          While I agree with her too you gotta love her worldview:

          “You get what you are good enough to take.”

          Subtly linking goodness with taking.

          What about creating something eh, prickly lady?

          As she says:

          “The global environment will no doubt be deteriorating and Labour need to capitalize on this and chip away at National’s timid approach to dealing with the issues.”

          So what’s needed is an alternative economic version. One would have thought the orthodoxy was doing a pretty good job of taking itself down. Problem is Labour haven’t presented a credible replacement. Cunliffe’s the only one with the brains and insight to create one. Can Shearer present it?

          Mallard/Pagani’s National lite, it’ll be our turn soon on the roundabout lads, may ultimately be successful.

          Pity the country will be fucked.

        • prism

          “Economic mongrel” sounds about it for what is needed. But then would Roger whatisname be considered one? I don’t want one who swings in that way. Oh Lord protect us from such rabid dogs.

  2. Clare Curran – “MPs need to be able to put aside party politics to agree on some issues”.

    MPs agree on City advocacy

    All four Dunedin MPs support the idea of working together more closely to advocate for Dunbedin interests.

    MPs working together positively for the city is a good start, but the main aim of ‘Dunedin voice’ is to give the people, the constituents, more of a chance to be heard and to be able to work together better with their MPs. This will add support and weight to combined MP advocacy.

      • Pete George 2.1.1

        Do you think people standing up and making sure they have more input into politics is “a joke”?

        • kriswgtn

          No fuk ur a clown

          everyday all you can do is diss Labour diss Labour- well dish it out fuktard

          youll get it back

          I am so over reading your fuking shit every day here blah fukin blah
          consider this war

          answer the questions

          Dunne who has just been snapped suppressing this report getting released is a joke

          Hell he was associate minister of health and he sat on this?

          I also clearly remember Dunne on smaller parties leaders debate making a statement that UF were against asset sales and he has flip flopped and bent over and offered his ass to Key

          • Pete George

            Dunne has been consistent on asset sales – United Future had no policies to sell assets but made it clear the most supported party had a right to progress it’s key policies.

            UF made it clear what it’s bottom lines were on asset sales, and it was also clear that it wasn’t strongly opposed to partial sales of some assets. I’ve got no problem with the party position on this.

            • kriswgtn

              I also clearly remember Dunne on smaller parties leaders debate making a statement that UF were against asset sales and he has flip flopped and bent over and offered his ass to Key

              • Galeandra

                Pete might like to explain slimy’s stance on tobacco, too- before he became all unctuous on restricting other people’s drugs of choice. He’s consistently proved to me that he’s in the pockets of vested interests and is for sale at whatever price. Look at his history of support for the hunting with Jesus lobby, for further examples.

            • Colonial Viper

              United Future had no policies to sell assets but made it clear the most supported party had a right to progress it’s key policies.

              So UF ran on the basis of being a sycophant and a collaborator?

              “We don’t have a policy of selling out the country, but will fully support any party in Government which wishes to do so”


            • Draco T Bastard

              …the most supported party had a right to progress it’s key policies.

              Except that they don’t. If they can’t get a majority then they can’t pass their policies and all of that means is that Peter Dunne said one thing while being confident that he would be doing something else. Most people call that lying.

        • mickysavage

          Oh the Irony.

          So Petey if the Government is doing important policy review in an area, like, as an example, alcohol reform, and there is a comprehensive report on public opinion concerning alcohol use that is directly relevant to the policy review, do you think that the public should have the opportunity to have more input into the review by the release of this information?

          Or do you think it should be suppressed?

          Please answer. This is a debate I am sure many would like to have with you.

          • Pete George

            On the surface it seems like the survey hasn’t added much to the issue, the results look pretty much as I would have expected them. I think I’ve seen similar elsewhere.

            However I’m all for as much openness and informed debate as possible so this does raise an eyebrow – but I’d like to find out more about this before being too critical.

            • kriswgtn

              Dunne sat on this report getting released its as simple as that FOOL

              • I’d prefer more balanced views than yours and TV3, who campaigned against Peter Dunne when they didn’t ignore him.

                • Well why did he sit on it?  Why didn’t he release it.  His reported response, that they did not want to spend $10k on a peer review of the report, is bollocks.  

                  The report should have been released.  It would have steeled up public opinion on the reforms and made some chicken MPs firm up on their views.

                  Petey, has UF or Dunne  received donations or free grog from the liquor industry in the past 12 months?

                  • Greg, that’s a particularly shitty sort of insinuation. Do you have any at all to support that sort of accusation?

                    If I attempted that sort of smear on, say, someone called David I suspect you’d be asking moderators to demand substantiation or retraction.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Take it up with the Green Party mate. Didn’t you see their press release on Dunne’s questionable actions?

                    • Ianupnorth

                      That Pete is a question – as indicated by the ? symbol at the end.

                      An insinuation would be – UF keep taking money from breweries.

                  • prism

                    ms A fair enough question. It would be 99.9% sure that the liquor industry is massaging the pollies, inside and out, anyone for a whisky rub? So invigorating to their cause. Even Treasury that noble astute disinterested bunch have been accepting cosy dinners for three or four.

                • kriswgtn

                  hahha and ur views are *balanced** hahha

                  you still HAVE NOT answered both questions
                  you have done ur normal spin
                  IT hasnt worked
                  so i stand by my comment youre a fool and an idiot

                  • I’ve responded here and on another post.

                    You didn’t answer my question to you related to this thread. Do you think people standing up and making sure they have more input into politics is “a joke”?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      There’s only one joke I can see.

                    • McFlock

                      The joke I find hysterically funny is someone urging people to have more say in politics when the person doing the urging, while speaking at great length and often, actually says nothing of any political note.

  3. Carol 3

    Regulation/watchdog recommended for “public affairs” bloggers:

    The proposal would involve a single regulator for print, broadcasting and online media, independent of the government and the industry and part-funded by the taxpayer. It would publish different codes for each medium.

    Privileges should be extended to online media such as public affairs bloggers if they adhere to journalistic standards, be subject to a complaints process and publish regularly, it says.

    And of course the article quotes those morally upstanding citizen journalists, as leaders in the struggle for honest and ethical blogging:

    David Farrar, publisher of Kiwiblog, welcomed the report and said bloggers should develop their own code. “Some sort of code for accuracy is not a bad thing. What will be interesting is if you need a formal complaints process as opposed to what I call the online trust method. If someone gets its horribly wrong, they get a bad reputation … that is actually reasonably effective.”

    Cameron Slater, of the Whaleoil blog, who has been prosecuted for breaching suppression orders, said he would be happy to abide by the same codes as journalists. “I applied to join the Press Council … and I couldn’t … When you make that choice your credibility goes up. If you choose not to belong, then your opinion is rated as something akin to blogs on knitting patterns.”

    And, of course, I would expect no less of Fairfax Media than their statement supporting anything that would improving journalistic standards, and the importance of freedom of speech going hand in hand with responsibility and accountability. /bemused.

    • Ianupnorth 3.1

      Slater applied to join the press Council, and was presumably declined! Even journalists have standards.

    • Jackal 3.2

      Why did they only seek comment from two right wing retard bloggers without any modicum of credibility? I would have expected more from Fairfax Media /sarc.

      Being that the hypocritical elitist pricks breach journalistic standards on a weekly basis, their opinion on regulation is obviously contrived to turn others off the idea… or perhaps they believe the watchdogs mandate will be formulated in such a way as to disadvantage left wing bloggers while allowing them to continue their (often illegal) hate speech. Another good reason to stay anonymous and host elsewhere.

  4. “If someone gets its horribly wrong, they get a bad reputation …”
    From Farrar? Priceless!

  5. Dv 5

    In todays herald
    Huljich’s lawyer Jack Hodder SC asked the judge to consider discharging his client without conviction because it would harm his career as a ”businessman in a globalised world”.

    Huljich’s lawyer Jack Hodder SC asked the judge to consider discharging his client without conviction because it would harm his career as a ”frauster in a globalised world”.

    There fixed it.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      I don’t know why you fixed it, in the modern globalised world

      financier = fraudster

      Just ask the peeps at Lehman Bros, AIG, MF Global, JP Morgan or any of the other government sanctioned ponzi artists now posing as bankers.

  6. Afewknowthetruth 7


    From yesterday:

    ‘No specifics on your linked pages – a bit like saying “Key promised to dowhateverit takes” and using as your source.
    Though you get points for poetic language, e.g. “financial unravelling”.
    Doesn’t say a damned thing. Are you predicting NZ or US inflation at, say, more than 300% by 2015? Reduction in international goods exchange by 30% in the same period? Will we no longer be using money? What?

    You’ve been saying the same stuff here for a couple of years or so and the dates keep changing. Be a bit more specific so your predictions are testable.’

    Let’s put it this way.

    ‘Peak oilers’ said in the early 2000s that global oil supply would fail to meet demand, that prices would rise rapidly and that the world would be subject to a series of ‘recessions’ that would morph into the Great [never-ending] Depression. Sure enough, it happened. Oil went from $28 a barrel to $147, blew the global economic system apart for a few weeks, and is currently around $100 a barrel. The global economic system has been in non-recovery phase since 2008.

    ‘Gold bugs said in the early 2000s that the price of gold would rise spectacularly. It did. Gold went from around $250 and ounce to $1900 and is currently around $1700. Gold will break through $2,000. It will break through $,3000 as ‘paper’ money becomes increasingly worthless.

    ”Property freaks’ said in the mid-2000s the US housing market was overblown would crash. It did. The collapse of the US housing sector commenced in 2007-8. And it’s still unravelling.

    ‘Climate change scaremongers’ said in the early 2000s the Artic region was in unprecedented meltdown. It is. 2007 saw the lowest ever summer ice cover and 2010 saw the lowest ever winter ice cover (since modern measurements commenced in 1979). The latest report from Greenland points out that the island is rising as the weight of ice rapidly declines. And crops are being grown in Greenland that have never been grown there before.

    According to your criteria, all the people who gave timely warnings were wrong or unreliable because they didn’t give specifics. They didn’t forecast in which month of which year any particular event would happen.

    All I can say is keep taking the ‘soma’. Don’t bother to do the necessary research. Don’t read the book I suggested. Don”t spend time reading important material on the webstites I recommended. Remain uninformed. Remain in denial. After all, the system requires lots of people to become victiims. And since there are far too many people chasing declining resources we do need a population die-off. Thanks for volunteering.

    And I’m not going to waste any more of my time providing you with information you do not appreciate.

    • McFlock 7.1

      Not quite.
      Peak oil was a specific, testable circumstance, predicted with increasingly accurate timeframes as the event approached. 
      Global warming has specific, testable predictions relating to sea level rise, temperature, other environmental factors, and according to specific timelines. AGW is described at length, and adjusted as better data becomes available.
      Property and gold speculators always have some people predicting boom, others bust. One of them is guaranteed to be correct, but even they almost always use testable scales like “$2000/ounce” or “fall 40%”.
       YOU just refer to “catastrophe”, “collapse” (and can I suggest “calamity”), with different years for each. So when you talk about collapse of the financial system, what are you predicting in the way of inflation, means of exchange ($$, rmb, gold, barter), and so on?

      [edit] – when you actually provide some information, I might appreciate it.

  7. AAMC 8

    Do as we say… not as we do!

  8. numeric 9

    A good piece. Excerpts pasted below ..
    What started its life as a facilitation service has become a dog eat dog eat industry where inter and intra company rivalries have reached dizzying heights .. A recent poll revealed that within the M25 there are 19 000 recruitment companies. To put that in perspective, the M25 is a 188km ring road. we make that 6.75 recruitment firms for every square kilometre.

    So whats the issue? A group of young girls and guys are out there starting up firms and earning good sums of money. Sounds great. Very Entrepreneurial. Well, the issue lies in the fact that recruitment firm hiring and creation is outpacing the number of available non-recruitment jobs by a huge rate and now the competition for business is getting considerably more fierce.

    If we step back and think about this a set of economic principles, the result is very clear. We have a contractionary demand situation with and exponentially large supply expansion that is continuing to boom. As a result, the price level (% fee) falls exponentially to reach a new equilibrium.

    This is what is happening in recruitment. As the market becomes flooded with firms, the market rate for placing a candidate starts to fall. An anonymous source revealed that their fee had fallen from 25% to 5% in some cases just to secure business and this will start to happen market wide.

    From a business standpoint, one of the biggest issues is due to the rates that the companies are exposed to. Those targeting the best clients need a prestige postcode and those aren’t cheap, many of the firms in London are based within walking distance to their city clients and rely upon the chunky commission structure to foot the bill. If this disintegrates, so does the postcode.

    To an investor, these businesses now look like duds. High cost liabilities, low cash flows and a remarkably thin asset level.

  9. Afewknowthetruth 10


    ‘Dunne has been consistent on asset sales – United Future had no policies to sell assets but made it clear the most supported party had a right to progress it’s key policies. ‘

    So, by that logic, if a party wanted to set up concentration camps and introduce arbitrary arrest in NZ, and that party got more votes than any other party, Peter Dunne would support that party and vote for the setting up of concentration camps and vote for abitrary arrest.

    We’ve known for years that Dunne lives in a moral cess pit.

    • No, Dunne also made it clear in the campaign that Labour couldn’t and wouldn’t be supported due to it’s policies (especially tax). So Labour didn’t get the opportunity to try to put together a Labour+Green+NZF+Mana+UF government.

  10. prism 11

    The Tertiary Commission is limiting funds to Maori Wananga because of numbers not finishing study and certification. But my view is that each paper should have standing, it has involved study and learning in itself that shouldn’t be disdained because of not achieving the total number set for the completion of the certificate (a degree, diploma or whatever). Getting a pass on a paper if studied properly, (not just copied from other’s work on the internet) involves a lot of application and learning. We should change the way we view uncompleted degrees etc to recognise this achievement.

  11. The Voice of Reason 12

    Tolley gets dumped by Key, Collins and Bennett move on up the cabinet rankings.

    • NickS 12.1

      And it only took 2 years and an election for them to realise Tolley was incapable of the job.

      Only to put her in charge of Corrections.

      Yay. Let’s watch as she fucks things up and makes Collin’s look positively brilliant in comparison.

      They’ve also given Dunne Conservation, which is utterly moronic given Dunne’s anti-1080 views and his lack of any prior experience with the area, let alone this wonderful thinking tool called “science”.

      • Ianupnorth 12.1.1

        With pictures!

        Tolley as Minister of Police – will she set a minimum number of Tazerings to be done in a month?

        I actually don’t have clue who have that lot are, or for that matter, why we have so many Ministries – Racing, veteran affairs, Regulatory Reform (isn’t that all government); – shouldn’t the Ministry of ‘Courts’ not be under a larger umbrella of justice?

        Also, nice collection of Cantab farmers wives – nothing like having a cabinet in touch with everyday reality…..

        • deuto

          Tolley as Minister of Police – and Corrections! God help us and them. AND to boot , Deputy Leader of the House. That is the one that really astounds me, especially if the rumours are correct and Lockwood Smith ends up High Commissioner to London – although being Deputy Leader does not necessarily mean that she would automatically step up to Leader under the parliamentary rules governing these positions.

          Re the Minister for Courts being separate from the Minister of Justice, this is a hangover from the merger of the Department of Courts and the Ministry of Justice some years ago (can’t remember of the top of my head which year). Also the two Ministerial roles are quite dissimilar with the Minister of Justice focused on higher level justice/legal issues while the Minister for Courts role is focused on the operational side of running the Courts system.

          So the Ministry of Justice’s two main Ministers have changed, ie

          Collins in place of Power as Minister of Justice
          Chester Burrows in place of Te Heu Heu as Minister for Courts
          Finlayson remains Attorney-General and also Minister for Treaty Negotiations.
          Not sure from the lists out to date who has got Minister in charge of Legal Services which is now under the Ministry of Justice.

          • deuto

            Oops – in my first para above, I was incorrect in that I mixed up Deputy Leader of the House and Deputy Speaker. Tolley has got the former not the latter – thank goodness. Could not conceive of her as a Speaker in the House! My bad – trying to do too many things at once.

      • Blue 12.1.2

        Hahaha I’m just remembering listening to Radio NZ one afternoon and hearing Dunne’s brilliant solution to a lake that had too many koi carp living in it – he thought the best solution was to have a fishing contest.


        Minister of Conservation. It’s going to be a long three years…

  12. randal 14

    I like your observation about the herald needing a raincheck. (permmanent).
    there is an easier way.
    the NZLP needs to invest in micropulse radio stations.
    $4,000 bucks buys the gear and the license.
    they are line of sight and one could conceivably cover Auckland.
    forget about the dinosaurs in Queen Street.
    time for some real innovation and a new mesage.
    if tribesmen in the hindu kush can do it then why not here?

  13. joe90 15

    Koch-Fueled Americans for Prosperity Takes Credit for Bullying GOP Lawmakers into Climate Denial

    Surprisingly, AFP isn’t shy about discussing its influence on electoral politics. In fact, in the National Journal article, AFP’s president, Tim Phillips, openly takes credit for bullying — literally threatening — GOP lawmakers with “political peril” should they chose to “play footsie” on climate change and clean energy:

    “If you look where the situation was three years ago and where it is today, there’s been a dramatic turnaround. … We’ve made great headway. What it means for the candidates on the Republican side, is if you … buy into green energy or you play footsie on this issue, you do so at your political peril. … And that’s our influence. Groups like Americans for Prosperity have done it.”

    • RedLogix 15.1

      I read that a few days ago Joe.

      Now most of us knew that’s what was going on. But to see them openly gloating about it… well it energises a dark part of my soul.

      Most people who do evil things retain enough sense to keep quiet about it, but revelling in the success of your evil is another thing altogether. These people KNOW they are wrong, they KNOW what they are doing is wrong in every sense of the word… yet they believe themselves so far above normal decency, beyond even the reach of shame..

      PS And joe, here’s a Naomi Klein linky in return:

  14. Re the non-release of the alcohol survey:

    Mr Dunne says he had expected the Health Sponsorship Council to have released the information on its own, as it was the council’s report.

    That’s a fair point – why didn’t the Health Sponsorship Council just release their report?

    • Ianupnorth 16.1

      As a Crown funded agency they can be told not to Pete, thought you were cleverer than that.

      How these things work (yes it was 30 years ago and overseas, not much has changed when it comes to public health)

      • Pete George 16.1.1

        If Dunne says he expected them to release the report it doesn’t sound like they were told not to, it would be easy for them to counter that claim.

        • McFlock

          Hmmm – are you saying that the public sector should start publically arguing with cabinet ministers?
          If Dunne expected them to release the report without him releasing the funding, he either has no idea how government works, or he’s a damned liar.

    • McFlock 16.2

      More slime. The report wasn’t released because (unlike your internet ejaculate) policy-oriented scientific studies need to go through a final peer review process, have a final stage of editing, and then printing and distribution (generally to primary funders, stakeholder groups and archivesNZ). This takes what we call “money”. Mr Dunne was asked for the “money”, and said “no”.
      Oh yes, lion nathan would have loved it if the “report” had been released as an unedited, unreviewed, poorly laid out internet blog. Luckily for NZ, most policy documents and scientific research has better quality assurance than

      • Pete George 16.2.1

        The Health Sponsorship Council would have known this when they funded the survey wouldn’t they?

        It seems odd they would nearly complete it then do nothing more simply because government wouldn’t hand out $10k at the last minute.

        • McFlock

          Well, it’s an indication of how odd dunnehill’s decision was – kicking the report upstairs for comments about direction, “can we have a chapter on this?”, and so on is pretty normal. Final tweaking at the boss’s discretion, then the funding is released for publication.
          To turn down a solid, even groundbreaking, piece of research at this stage is like building the Clyde Dam and then refusing to fund the high-voltage lines that would connect it with the national grid. The fact that the study dealt with NZ attitudes to alcohol harm, pricing and advertising certainly allows folk to make a pretty short inference as to his motives.

        • deuto

          Dunne spun on this aspect this morning on Nine to Noon – something to the effect that the money (a measly $10K) was needed for other priorities. Suggest you go listen to what he said, PG, so you can get your lines right.

        • mik e

          Pompus Git the one man band hasbeen caught out manipulating the evidence also backing a band aid solution to a $6 billion dollar per annum loss to the economy!
          Munny flushed down the dunny

  15. AAMC 17

    Pretty amazing Occupy site…

  16. AAMC 18

    “take the power back” West Coast shutdown this evening, Monday morning US time, including Japanese rail workers proposing to block grain trains in solidarity, march on Goldman Sacs @ 7am in NY… should be interesting


  17. I know exactly who I would like. However I am a loyal, member of the Labour Party .Both these guys will serve the party well/,so lets get behind.
    I dont need being told by sleazy Nats/ACT who I should support.
    The Editorial yesterdays Sunday Herald was an example of the foul columns we can expect ,they have already started an anti Labour leader campaign. Dont let fall for this Crosby /Textor campaign this time. And before any Tory in sheeps clothing tells me that I just do as I told thy need to know I am nobodies poodle/ But I firmly believe in a democratic system and If I have a dispute I do it in in house and if I feel extra strong about an issue I can piss vey well in side the tent.

  18. Bunji 21

    We won the cricket!

    • The Voice of Reason 21.1

      Yeah! Fantastic effort and maybe Punter’s last go round in the baggy green? Luckily our next opponent is Zimbabwe, so we may even get win back to back tests for the first time since like forever.

    • lprent 21.2

      Who cares? (and bah humbug!)

  19. Draco T Bastard 22

    Gordon Campbell on the coalition agreements

    Now that the three deals done to maintain the National-led coalition are all on the table, its pretty clear how shabby these arrangements really are.

    Overall he points out that none of the parties involved have got good deals for their constituents and that a lot of the policies that were agreed on weren’t advised before the election. On that he says:

    Still, since Key seems to want to blame MMP for this sort of ruse, he should be willing to make the lack of transparency part of the independent review of the voting system next year. In principle at least, it should be possible to outlaw policies that played no part in the election campaign from becoming part of the new government’s coalition agreements.

    Which is something I could get behind. Something like:
    Policies that were not advertised before the election can be passed into law unless in response to an emergency situation and such emergent law will have a maximum length of 6 months from implementation and, within that 6 months, must go through a referendum and select committee.

    Time to shift to more accountable democracy.

    • vto 22.1

      I agree absolutely and completely. I have often suggested that the standards that we out here in realityland have to comply should be the same as those for our public lawmakers. In fact their standards should be higher – but they are not, they are lower.

      We have to comply with the Fair Trading Act, which is the way it should be. The lawmakers can lie and bullshit to til the cows come home, which is not the way it should be.

      The exact same or greater standard shold apply to those charged with lawmaking. It is after all supposed to be something most important. Isn’t it? Is making law in Parliament not more important than selling a trinket at the $2 shop?

      So I propose again, The Fair Trading in Politics Act. It is all about preventing “misleading and deceptive conduct in politics”.

      Why should it not apply? I have never heard a good reason. Anyone? Somebody who is a politician perhaps? Got an answer? Or just go quiet and hope it goes away? Follow Key’s stellar example of leadership – whatever you can get away with goes? ?

    • Draco T Bastard 22.2

      Policies that were not advertised before the election can not be passed into law…

  20. Hi Nanaia
    I know you were sent a copy of this essay in a booklet, along with the movie Blind Spot and a ‘video’ of a lecture given by Professor Albert Bartlett titled Arithmetic, Population and Energy. I hope you’ve had the chance to look at this information.
    Combining the above info with this parliamentary report from October 2010 , could you please advise me on weather I should open a Kiwi Saver account, being as Labour were going to make it compulsory I am sure you must have some contrary view and information than what I am presenting.

    [lprent: Do you ask that same last question of everyone in Labour at present, including lowly members like me? I have e-mail from you with a half written answer that keeps getting disrupted by work and xmas socialising. What are you doing? Compiling a dossier?

    Updated – that was a retorical question rather than a reason to open a dialogue. Eventually I will finish my email.

    Moved to OpenMike so you can talk to yourself for a while. Doesn’t look to me like you are talking to or about Nanaia. ]

    • I guess I’m to reply to you via this system Lynn?
      The reason I ask Labour MPs the question is because they were the ones to bring it in in the first place, and they wanted to make it compulsory, I think I am asking a legitimate question, being as so many of my friends are placing so much money into the scam. And if you have even just glanced at the information I’m presenting then you must know I am right and whom ever dreamed up Kiwi Saver is stark raving mad 😉
      I would ask the same of the Greeds, but they really make my skin crawl.
      Now what is this about an email, happy for you to make it public.
      One thing I’ve noticed with nearly every letter I’ve seen or received from a minister that the signature is always on the last page and all the incriminating stuff is on the first page, as if it would not stand up in court, I think when receiving a letter from a minister each page should be signed or at least initialled .. oh but that might make them tell the truth.

  21. joe90 24

    Ah…irony or …something…

    “Let us be crystal clear, however, Tony Fabrizio is not the victim here. Tony Fabrizio has lined his pockets for years with money from gay groups and is now one of the chief architects of a campaign strategy – not just an isolated television ad – intended to demonize gay people in order to score political points. Fabrizio claims he opposed the latest anti-gay Perry television ad.

  22. Bored 25

    Just watching Russian TV, what a great channel if you really want ot know whats going on.

    The USA correspondent had a story about how the California PD were violently ejecting OWSers in San francisco and arresting them on bylaws in contravention of the US Bill of Rights…..then a story about how spy drones (as -un-seen over Iraq and Afganistan) were being deployed to spy on US citizens despite outrage by civil rights groups…..this was followed by a look at Christmas shopping in New York with $2mlln bracelets for the super rich and 99cent shops for the super poor. Apparently 4 million New Yorkers on food stamps…what a country.

  23. Draco T Bastard 26

    Man, some people will complain about anything.

    A Dutch architectural firm has apologised for its design of twin skyscrapers in central Seoul which resemble the exploding World Trade Center towers in New York.

    The designs have infuriated families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks.

    1.) Two towers close together will look like two other towers close together
    2.) No, it doesn’t look like they’re exploding
    3.) It’s been ten fucken years, get over it already or are all architects forever supposed to avoid designing because a few people in another part of the world might get upset.

    • Afewknowthetruth 26.1


      Gotta use every opportunity to keep the the faux official 9/11 meme going.

      Just think what would happen if people worldwide recognised the official 9/11 narrative for the scam it was.

  24. Afewknowthetruth 27

    Fine words Nanaia. But what do you know about Fractional Reserve Banking, International Bond Markets, Derivatives, Peak Oil, and EROEI. These, and other financial energetic and environmental the matters, are going to determine everyone’s immediate future. And the longer term future will be determined by Abrupt Climate Change.

    In the absence of any evidence to the contrary we assume you know next-to-nothing about any of the issues of the times.

    [lprent: In the absence of proof to the contrary I can’t see that you know much about them apart from their names either. Basically you are making an assertion without proof for no particular point apart from some kind of ego stroking. Bumped to OpenMike. ]

    • Afewknowthetruth 27.1


      That’s a bit rich isn’t it? Overt censorship. Remove a comment from a thread because it highlights unmentionable truths.

      It’s not for me to demonstrate I know about the key issues of the times but it is for someone who wants to lead the country to demonstrate they know about the key issues of the times and can deal with them.

      I guess what we are witnessing right now is just another aspect of the failure we have come to expect from Labour over the years.

      • lprent 27.1.1

        If you had read the whole of post you’d have known that I said I would be moderating the post. One of the things I always moderate when there is time is off-topic top comments. I will typically bump them to OpenMike.

        Your comment was way way off topic. However if you want see what actual censorship is like then ask and I will demonstrate.

        • vto

          A bit rough mr prent? I thought asking one of our leading politicians to comment on the fractional reserve banking system and its features (failures) is entirely pertinent.

          It is after all the world’s BIGGEST ponzi scheme.

          It is also the cause of the current world financial crisis. I mean, how did it come to be that there is more debt in the world than there is money to repay it? And, following that absurdity, how does it then get repaid?

          Very very very fair questions. In fact, so fair that our leading financial whizz-kid, who just so happens be the leader of the land, John Key, should be quizzed heavily on it as well.

          It is past time that this issue was cranked way up

          • lprent

            Perhaps he should actually ask a question?

            Instead he made a statement followed by an assertion. Even in a normal post, I’d be looking at that thinking that it requires a warning. Doing it on a post that has a statement saying it is being actively moderated is pretty damn silly don’t you think?

    • Colonial Viper 27.2

      I have talked to Cunliffe about oil depletion, EROEI, land export model etc. He gets the ideas at least theoretically, but I do not know how important (or real) he considers them.

  25. What are you on about?
    To the best of my knowledge, until 2 min ago, I thought I was writing to Lynn, not having my emails/blogs/messages repeated in open mike. But I guess like all things in life it is my fault for not reading the small print, and ignorance of the ‘law’ is no excuse.
    Is there no wonder I have such a low opinion of this spices.
    Have you ever read Celestine Prophecy , hope you enjoy the power trip 😉

    • lprent 28.1

      I did not repeat your e-mail – that is a lie. I said that I had received a email on the same topic from you and was in the process of writing a reply.

      As far as I am aware there isn’t anything particularly priviledged about my doing that. You didn’t even write about anything to do with the site that would be covered by our privacy provisions.

      Anyway, I am sick of this crap. Desist from bugging me or I will remove the nuisance

      Evidentially another moderator thinks the same…

      • Robert Atack 28.1.1

        dame it! I think I have the right to defend myself
        First I posted a comment on Nanaia’s thing, you made a comment, I didn’t mind in the least, I new the reply would not go public, I wasn’t trying to be smart, I wasn’t aware I wasn’t ‘allowed’ to what looked to me like something I was invited to reply to??? so I replied in a one to one manner, again knowing it would not go public, but then I went to open mike and there it was? … go figure,
        Then the next message I send you via the reply on Nanaia’s blog (again not knowing I was pissing you off) I get called a troll ??? wtf , by a sprout?
        What is that all about???
        I did not lie at all, I wasn’t talking about an ’email’ I was talking about the original reply I sent you via Nanaia’s thing.
        But bygones, lets move on to a brighter future, knowing I had no intention of upsetting you at all
        Happy thoughts

        [lprent: I noted on the comment because the question was damn near exactly the same as as the one I got. I shifted the comments when you started a discussion with me that had nothing to do with the topic on the post and detracted from it. A followup comment by you was caught as being off topic by another moderator before I finished moving it to OpenMike. I am irritable at the best of times – but I was in bed staving off a cold before I got up to put Nanaia’s post up. It requires moderation releases. Now I have just moved to outright grumpy wasting sleep time on these comments. ].

    • Afewknowthetruth 28.2


      ‘hope you enjoy the power trip’

      Spot on.

      That’s what it always comes down to in the end with any political group.

      And controlling the information flow.

      [It’s not about controlling the ‘information flow’, how can it be when you and Robert have had any amount of time and oxygen here on The Standard? It’s about observing a few basic house rules. Guys.. how about leaving off and all coming back fresh another day? Really there is no call for this… because arguing with the moderators, the sysop especially, is always a dead-end street. And there is need to go there. RL]

      • Afewknowthetruth 28.2.1


        The big difference between TS and other places I comment is the lack of censorship elsewhere. Sorry, I’m not into censorship. The moment that is introduced the intellectual argument is lost and the door to totalitarianism is open.

        When I stop posting on TS it will be your loss and the Labour movement’s loss not mine.

        [lprent: You can call it censorship. But you of all people should be aware of the time we spend making sure that you don’t do diversions on topics because you regard everything as being a subset of your favorite issues. We move them to OpenMike – just to to censor you? You have convinced me that I need to test your assertion by experiment

        Banned for a month to give me a good holiday from moving your comments to OpenMike and to test if anyone notices the lack of your wisdom here. ]

        [RL: Good grief AFKTT. A quick search shows you have made something like 30 comments in the last 3 days alone. And you have the gall to call a mild spot of moderation… ‘censorship’? That’s plain wrong and you know it.

        Lynn and I between us probably have more good reason than most to support the essential cause you are so passionate about… but frankly your monomania is undoing any good you may have once achieved. And your failure to understand and control yourself around some basic house rules, is bloody dissapointing.]

  26. Reality Bytes 29

    “Crushed boy racer…” the NZ Herald wittingly headlines the story about the first person to get their car crushed under the car-crush legislation. Some fellow who has been caught doing burnouts thrice. Not exactly a hardened DUI recidivist case… But anyway, team crusher have been baying for this day for a long long time now…

    Herald missed the real ironic story that stands out like a real story though, that this ‘crushing’ punishment which is supposed to discourage such attention seeking behavior, has merely done the exact opposite giving this guy national fame amongst his peers, all for the cost of a shit-box $1200 corolla… Oh I bet he is crying himself to sleep over his crappy old corolla… yeah right.

    Oh and he’s already sold it to someone else, so what does that mean, all that’s happening is some other poor sod loses out.

    Good grief, where is the real journalism in this country, they make a big deal about this and yet ignore the interesting subtleties.

  27. Draco T Bastard 30

    3D printing, this has really got to scare the capitalists.

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