More recently known as Ed, and probably even more recently (and briefly) known as Jinx. Definitely not witty, in fact completely devoid of any detectable humour whatsoever.
Pseudo-pseudo majorly concentrated on funnelling the USA and world disasters to us. I wondered why he seemed stuck in a rut, but after WtB’s count of its headline groupings, if he looked at the Herlad that would have been predictable.
Just one word of amelioration about the Herald – it does produce some good factual stuff; we aren’t seeing it become the National Enquirer yet.
Hmmmm…in these times, where even expressing an interest into thoroughly investigating all aspects of what are now considered conventional practices (be it vaccination, fluoridation of public water supplies, widespread 1080 use, widespread agrichemical use etc) is going to attract a shit tonne of ‘strident’ pro-ers tearing one to bits and accusing the ‘antis’ of being the cause of all the worlds problems…is it any reason your so called ‘anti – vaxxers’ are keeping a low profile?
Judging by the comments sections of msm articles about all of the above issues…it is the ‘pro’ lobby dishing out the bulk of the shit in a ‘strident’ manner
So. Being a person who was raised to make my own inquiries I’ve gone to the source, so to speak, and downloaded the current Immunisation Handbook from the that august institution the Ministry of Health.
The Disclaimer, though, kinda made my eyebrows rise….
“Disclaimer
This publication, which has been prepared for, and is published by, the Ministry of Health, is for the assistance of those involved in providing immunisation services in New Zealand.
While the information and advice included in this publication are believed to be correct, no liability is accepted for any incorrect statement or advice.
No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Those sort of publications always have that sort of warning.
There are people who simply cannot be given immunizations. There is apparently at least one child in this category at the Christchurch school. Quite why that is so I don’t know.
Anybody reading this publication you have is merely being told to consider the individual health situation of the person concerned before going ahead with the injection.
“No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?”
Yes absolutely, this is standard risk management by the MoH, no different from the provision of any medication or medical procedure to a patient. Benefits must out weigh risks…do no harm etc etc
yes. The harm from not immunizing only eventuate if they loudly declare how they are justified they are not to, and enough of the herd follow their lead. It’s like they want to kill lots of people and get a egotistical high of the higher ground.
The Min of Health is just protecting itself from possible expensive legal claims that people who have endless negative cautions, and a positive desire for litigation, are adding to the maelstrom of matters to fear and defend oneself from.
I read some of Linus Pauling’s work on Vitamin C, and remember an article about a vaccination programme in Australia on aboriginal children.
A doctor working with the children, advocated for the administration of Vitamin C before any of the children were vaccinated. He theorised that their diet did not provide their immune system with the ability to respond to the vaccinations as expected. Ridiculed for this procedure, when he left his post the fatality rate for immunised children rose as high as 50% in the Northern Territories. And this was in the 70’s.
There is a long and terrible history of forced medication or medical intervention. Measles seems to be a very low bar to call for compulsory vaccination.
Many people who have had iatrogenic experiences, don’t have the blind faith in medical institutions and decision making that is required for such clear non-questioning compliance.
Wouldn’t you say that many on this site are authoritarian in their views with regards to the action required to address climate change? And rightly so. Evidence suggests action is required on climate change.
When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe, then we have a right to be “authoritarian” in those views, and we must always call out those who choose to ignore the evidence. Vaccinate your kids, or stay out of our schools. The exception obviously being those who cannot vaccinate based on medical professional opinion – which is exactly why the rest of us need to vaccinate – to keep those who cannot vaccinate, safe!
“When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe,..”
Possibly the most recent evidence that that statement is false…
” In spite of protecting against the diseases, DTP-vaccinated children had fivefold higher mortality than children who didn’t receive the vaccine.
We have repeated this finding many times. Protection against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis seems to come at a very high price: increased risk of dying from other infections, such as respiratory infections, particularly for females. Translated into absolute numbers, the results indicate that the use of DTP vaccine in sub-Saharan Africa may cost tens of thousands of female lives every year. ”
The researcher is not saying all vaccines are bad and is not saying that all non live vaccines should be banned. She IS saying there is a very, very real problem with the order in which vaccines are given. She IS saying (well, implying) that because the whole discussion around vaccinations has become so polarised, these vital research findings are very likely to be lost in a(nother) shitstorm of extremist rage.
But. Whatever. I never cease to be awestruck at the absolute, blind commitment of some on these pages to a particular point of view, regardless of any information that might come their way that ordinarily would make a person have a further wee think.
Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.
“Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.’
Case proven. How about, when you dive into an ongoing conversation, you actually backtrack and actually check out the links?
Or, I can just dish it up to you again….because information is power and all that…..
How many deaths have been avoided over the last few decades due to the vaccines? I would hazard a guess that this far outweighs the risks. It is the risks that you seem so fixated on, even if the evidence suggests the benefit to society outweighs these risks. You are looking for a perfect solution to eradicating these illnesses – I’m sorry, but there will never be one. But to expose the vast majority of the population to these illnesses based on a low level of risk from vaccination would be absurd. I’ll stop arguing at this point – as pro-plague people are extremely painful to argue with.
I would consider myself very concerned about climate change, and an advocate for effective changes, information sharing and planned transition. My personal individual choices reflect that as well as my attendance at a couple of select committee hearings and protests, and my commitment to submitting to government when possible.
Yet, I believe an authoritarian approach is one that treats people like children and dismisses any questions or concerns. Ultimately, it creates division and builds resistance to change. It may be the choice of the frustrated – and satisfy in the short term – but in the long term it takes greater energy to sustain and often results in significant pushback.
Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.
There’s an Aussie woman on her way to NZ to spread her brand of anti-vaxxer poison. She should be banned from entering the country on the grounds she represents a danger to the community at large. In this case I strongly suspect she’s a con artist making a lot of money out of the anti-vaccine campaign.
Perhaps we could follow the example of the Italian Government.
From an Economist daily newsletter I get.
“Italian children can now be turned away from school unless there is proof they have been properly vaccinated. Parents of unvaccinated children aged between six and 16 can also be fined up to €500 ($565). Lorenzin law, introduced following a rise in measles cases, requires immunisation against a number of illnesses including chickenpox, polio, measles, mumps and rubella.”
From what level of understanding would you support such a law, Anne?
That you endorse hate speech views such as garners on this subject signals your understanding of vaccine science is literally zero…
If you actually cared about children, you might take the time to spend learning and undstanding more about the subject…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
Or are you comfortable to disregard the body of evidence?
If you would like a discussion, and some links, I can share you many (to peer reviewed research)…
Do it for the children, Anne…you say you care about them…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
If I read you correctly then that is one of the most obnoxious pieces of crap I have ever encountered on the subject. It serves to highlight the necessity for a law to prevent that kind of hair-brained garbage from being advocated in public places.
And Nigel Latta expressed the same views as mine on Seven Sharp tonight except in a rather more diplomatic fashion. (Not online yet)
Btw, I was professionally trained in both the physical and psychological health and well being of children.
Precis….live vaccines good and can have health benefits beyond the target disease. Dead vaccines….not so good…in fact bad in far too many cases…especially for girls.
Very simple precis, and I sincerely hope it gets your attention.
Live vaccines priming the immune system. Absolutely no surprise there though it is a wow moment for me that the coverage is more comprehensive than the targeted disease. And this was found for multiple live vaccines. Wow.
I kinda see why doctors prefer the dead vaccine and why mothers do not. But patient harm in any form needs to be put under serious scrutiny. Is there any test for a pre-condition of immuno-compromised people?
I geek out on tweaking plant immunity with various microbes and fungi, viruses are over my pay grade – we did have a relatively
comprehensive look at HIV in postgrad. Damn thing evolves…
Our tutor was one of the ones that died on flight MH17. Damn shame that was.
About a century ago there was a woman helping Australian Aborigines at a time when polio was being vaccinated agai
Sister Kenny devised a way of treating polio victims that had better outcomes than previously. One of her ideas was that the vaccine shouldn’t be given to someone at a time when they had a cold, or their health was compromised. I think that would fit in with your idea of having a pre-condition that would affect immune systems.
She also did a lot of work keeping their limbs moving so that they didn’t end up as permanently disabled.
And yet you’ve offered zero, nothing to counter the comment I made…but go right ahead…you believe it’s “obnoxious crap and hairbrained garbage”… you must be able to back it up…
Surely if you’re supporting punitive laws, endorsing violent hate speech , you must have legitimate counters to my comment, Anne….you must have a level of understanding of the core issues…the research…the harm…the damaged and dead…
Surely, Anne…you must have…or how can you offer written support of such laws coming to Nz…Endorse censorship…you must have knowlegde and understanding to counter…
I’m offering you the opportunity for an open discussion…only you on this subject Anne…because you supported the hate speech I’m calling out…
I also believe you are a higher calibre of commentator on balance, here in comparison to others engaged in this discussion…
With respect…if your training was from your understood generation (based on your comments)…then it will be terribly outdated and in need of a refresh…
So go right ahead, Anne…provide substance of your position to endorse hate speech against children and parents…censorship and punitive legislations…
Here we go… Nigel Latta talking about vaccines on Seven Sharp. Scroll past the weather and it’s the first item. Listen to Hillary and Jeremy after the end of the interview following the brief ASB ad. They make a couple of pertinent points couched in humour:
Nigel Latta. He’s a bit akin to a much loved teddy bear isn’t he? Hauled out, dusted off and cuddled so we can all feel comforted and secure. I had no idea he was an expert on immunology and vaccination science.
On second thoughts Anne…DON’T WATCH/READ WHAT DR BENN HAS TO SAY.
Fair enough Anne. That is the level of propaganda which you’re amenable to…that your level of understanding is derived from…
You’re not alone in being fooled…there are too many ‘fools’ …on either side of the discussion…including the paid ones in the link you posted…
You see Anne, it is not a binary discussion…despite your preferred propaganda channels imploring you to believe…it is a deeply nuanced, complicated set of (actual science) , not vaccine science and its pseudoscience relative, psychology…components…deeply personal…
You, and each and every individual…paid or unpaid who share…or pretend to share the same views…are already relegated to the sidelines of the discussion…while the minority goes about what the minorities through history…always go about doing…
That you so callously disregard the global scientific community’s body of archived research, performed and disseminated to those adults and parents who take full responsibility for their offspring, by spending time and energy learning and understanding that research…
Says that you Anne, have chosen…at this point in your life…not to grow…not to further your knowledge…not to gain understanding as to why it is you…and the ‘authorities’ you refer…who will continue to lose ground…who will continue to lack understanding about why…the vaccine science industry…has lost its position…
And you will continue to blame those who do know…who did the research…the science…who suffered the damage and loss…who shared the actual science with other adults from all professional and non professional backgrounds…to decide for themselves, the best choices to make for their children…
While yourself…and all those whose views you relate to…will continue to belittle and berate those…who took the time to grow and expand themselves…for the good of others…
And you and your ilk…will believe it is ‘others’…who are stupid…who are gullible…who are uneducated absorbers of fake news on the internet….
But that, Anne…is already the projections of those who have been sidelined…because real science…is never settled…
It had already moved on from what you ‘believed’ it to be…decades ago…and you’re not interested in updating yourself…
Thanks One Two. It’s reassuring to know that you’ve done all the research because you care so much… and still come up with the wrong outcomes.
Vaccines, amongst other public health methods, have lifted health quality outcomes like being free from communicable diseases and living longer to heights almost unimaginable 100 years ago.
But of course some stupid fuckwits on the internet know better than 97% of health professionals because they’ve done some reading. This is the magic number of scientists that confirm global warming is correct. So how can the same proportion of doctors be so wildly incorrect in your opinion?
Personally I don’t want my kids going to schools with other parents children who are trying to be 3rd world worriers. Vaccines should be legally mandated or no entry into public schools.
The anti-vaccination movement is, by and large, a first world thing.
Take the polio vaccine, afaik, the oral polio vaccine, which has its risks. And is basically something given in (sometimes literal) shitholes where the disease is rampant anyway.
Vaccines are by definition of “reality” not 100% risk free: You can be allergic and only find out when you go into a seizure. It’s just that those situations are rare.
As in, between 1:1.000.000-2.000.000.
The risks of dying to something like measles, is even less with proper healthcare something like 1:1000, are you young, are you not that strong, you get pneumonia, and sometimes that’s it right there. It happens. In less priviliged societies? It kills.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
As long as the people involved clearly understand the risks of vaccines and why it’s so important to society to be able to control communicable disease down to manageable levels then I don’t see any reason why people can’t live and let live.
Only a single comment to respond with…covers the largest flaw in your core of your thinking…
* vaccinated communities have been proven to spread the same diseases (and mutated versions of) which are supposedly ‘vaccine preventable’ by injecting the vaccines(s) which manufactures, lawmakers and doctors, recommend,advise/force people to inject…to prevent from catching the [virus]…
Get better informed…no excuses for that level of missing data…
I’ll not be responding to you further on this subject…
I do not like you using the words ‘hate’ speech One Two. It seems to me that they are being thrown around far too frequently.
Hate speech encourages KKK to go and hang African Americans, and to burn down their churches.
It shouldn’t be used about people who have a different point of view and argue strongly for it. Biased they are, foolish and bigoted perhaps, but hate is another bloody four letter word like rape. There seems little respect for language and meaning when such words are used freely.
One Two: most of us accept that we live in an imperfect world where there are very few perfect solutions. Most of the time we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils, and I think this is one of them.
If all the anti-vax arguments are true, so be it – vaccination is an evil.
But I for one would much rather have had the risky vaccinations I have had, than suffer from just one of the nasty diseases I have been protected against.
For the vast majority of people the nasty diseases have a far more devastating effect than the vaccinations do , and for those who suffer from vaccinations, maybe we have to wait for medical science to help them as well..
Lesser of two evils.
If vaccinations had ever looked like being worse than the disease avoided, a huge majority would have become anti-vax.
Are you now going to tell me I am an innocent victim of propaganda?
In Vino, your comment indicates you’re ok with people making choices with regards to bodily autonomy, and forced medication…that position alone, is a respectable one to hold…
There are many points in your comment which I could address and which I could show are logically incorrect…but they are your perspective and your decisions to take for yourself…
What I would suggest is that no-one who involves themselves in having an opinion on vaccines, should allow themselves or others, the disservice of complacancy , laziness or ignorance by believing what they are told…or believing what they ‘know’…
Western medicine (the corporate consensus variety) has seemingly no interest in accepting why it might be an evolutionary necessity for humans to get sick and self heal, thus gaining genuine full cell immunity through a powered up immune system…it is what our bodies have been doing since day one…our immune systems are amazing just as they are…
Pure hubris to think that short circuiting and tricking the immune system with chemicals is not leading to human beings becoming sicker, with more illness and diseases in younger cohorts than modern medicine provides any answer for other than…more drugs/vaccines and toxic allopathic protocols…
Our spieces has evolved symbiotically over [forever number] of years with the very microbes we believe we have somehow mastered, and can control…and should eradicate from the environment…they can’t be…not by human beings…
To your final question…innocent victim…no not at all…just someone whose comment also indicates they need to invest more time into learning about the flaws in vaccine science…which actual science has now moved to unreservedly, exposing…
So much research and scholarly material available which could assist with helping people to make more well informed decisions for their own well being, and that of their loves ones…
One Two
I have kept an open mind as to your comments and the veracity of the beliefs, information, references etc. But the longer they are and the more you use emotional language, the more wary I become of your statements.
For once Sam comes up with something informative. And it is a serious matter which he takes through giving freedom to anti-vaxers with a waiver of treatment for their children. And a case to answer of involuntary manslaughter when they cause deaths.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
Then he makes the point about plagues that they cause 100% deaths. Which may not apply to measles, instead there will be numerous cases of people being debilitated badly, blind etc.
Measles infections can harm the front or back of the eye, possibly causing vision loss or blindness. Though measles is just re-emerging as a threat in developed countries, the disease has long been a leading cause of childhood blindness worldwide.Mar 5, 2015
(Some American Academy that blacks out everything over cookies)
One in ten will get ear infections and some hearing loss also.
In her book about her travels in early New Zealand colonial times, Florence Harsant travelled in remote areas where Maori had been struck down by measles. She was horrified to find whole households laid low, parents unable to care for children, and no-one in the village with medicines and no help from authorities.
She had to plan to escape herself from a travel limitation set up by either Maori or surrounding colonists, and advised health authorities herself.
As Sam says, this is a first world thing, with emotional people who haven’t been taught decision making, analysing risk, ratios and percentages and means and averages etc. And in life there is risk, and that we are surrounded by unsterile air, and constantly ignoring advice to wash hands after going to the toilet etc. – noticed in public places.
There are irresponsible people, there are ones who despise western medicine, there are others who are fatalists. One woman I knew of was a Pacific Islander of determined decisions, and she would not allow her teenager to use asthma aids, such as an inhaler. When her son died from an asthma sttack, the authorities did not know what to do for the best. I don’t know whether she was even charged with neglect. Some parents can not be reasoned with. Public health is set up to assist us, and has, but they must be watchful to keep up quality. Whatever they do, though there will be criticism – too early, too late, wrong type, over-spent on the wrong virus line.
Gw..and with respect…you’re clearly underinformed on this subject…take responsibility for your weariness…do not transfer your shortcomings onto my commentary…
Others have tried a similar tactic in the 5G discussion…it is a tactic of the disingenuous …
I addressed the logical failings in the core premise of Sams proposal…
Why are you ignoring my response to Sam, regarding known and proven vaccine failure rates?
That is…the spread of the very disease individuls were vaccinated against catching..
Messaging with people who do even tale the time to invest in learning vaccine 101 is not productive…
No emotions Gw…you’ve read me incorrectly…and you’ve written a novel…
Edit. You should stop using derogatory terms…I believe you are above such use of anti-v***
Alwyn for once I entirely agree with your suggestion. Producing proof of vaccination is a good idea which would save lives and prevent illness. I had polio, measles 2 kinds, mumps and chickenpox. There is no advantage having these diseases and every advantage not to.
Join the club. So did I.
Amazing that any of us made it to adulthood isn’t it?
I cannot understand anyone who refuses, or is simply to lazy, to vaccinate their children.
Some still believe that disgraced English doctor with his b*s about a connection between the MMR vaccination and Autism. Now there is a dreadful example of a human being.
One of the things the pro-disease crowd sometimes go on about is Big Pharma make money from vaccines so that inherently makes them suspicious.
Yet that fucking fraud Wakefield was busily patenting his single disease vaccines in order to line his pockets and consulting on lawsuits in order to line his pockets all the while he was fabricating his data that happened to support those activities. But somehow, he’s a hero to the pro-diseasers?
Wakefield. Yes now I remember the name. When I read about his activities at the time he was kicked out of the profession I got so mad at his behaviour I never wanted to read anything more about him, EVER.
When I wrote the comment here I couldn’t recall his name but I refused to google the story because it would simply make me so mad about that vile person again. So rather than do so about all I could think of to say was ” that disgraced English doctor”.
The number of kids who must have suffered so he could attempt to line his pockets.
Whooping cough was best…after the awful coughing the rest of 6 weeks off school to ride bikes up and down SH1 (wartime and almost no traffic. Seriously, they were all dangerous. Think the first immunisations were for diphtheria early 1940’s, done at school.
And to think Heather, our Mum’s put us into contact with other children who had contracted these diseases because it was believed we were better off catching them as children. That is, with the exception of polio and whooping cough.
I remember the school shutdown for some six to eight weeks during the polio epidemic of the early 1950s. As an extra precaution we weren’t supposed to play with one another, so we spent all day whizzing past each other on our scooters. Yeah… there were some bruised and bleeding knees came out of that one. 🙂
The schools closed in 1947 when I caught polio in the last great epidemic, and again in 1953 when June Opie got polio from the failed vaccine, Salk? and spent the rest of her life in an iron lung.
The three drops on the tongue polio vaccine was available in my first year of teaching in 1962.
“Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.”
Well that’s part of the problem right there, and I referred to this at 2.1.2 .
I struggle with the need to fluoridate all drinking water. To me it makes no sense when tooth decay is not caused by lack of fluoride.
Yes I do agree our climate is changing, the sun is more intense than 20 or even 10 years ago, and that we definitely need to urgently seek and implement ways to try and mitigate the effects. (Although I fear rampant capitalism will see our ultimate doom as a species.)
I exercised discretion when it came to my children’s immuisations, which is not to say I didn’t have them vaccinated. As I mentioned a few days ago….MMR was very new and there were anecdotal cases of serious adverse events (NOT autism…!!!) which made a few folk understandably nervous. Very frustrating that with the release of MMR the old single measles jab became unavailable…even if we were willing to pay. When the Hep B vaccine was being given to newborns there were concerns from some groups. I asked a GP if my 18 month old needed the jab, and was told there was no way he was going to catch Hep B…he wasn’t in the at- risk group. So why the mass vaccination program if the disease is a risk for only specific sections of the population?
I’ve have tried (and failed) to find the official register of significant averse effects from vaccinations…..where is it?
Calling people ‘nutbars’ and ‘murderers’ for vaccine hesitancy is merely going to widen the divide.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
“It is a very small percentage of the New Zealand population.
“We need to understand it and respond to it, and definitely put more resources and thinking into it, but it is a very small part of why we are not getting high immunisation coverage rates.”
Dr Turner said there were other problems with delivering immunisations, beyond what she called vaccine hesitancy, and New Zealand would be better off dealing with those.”
Now it would be manifestly unreasonable to expect a shock jock media personality to actually take a calming breath or two and actually do some proper research…or even check with the head honcho from IMAC before launching into their lynch mob rousing speech…but I’d expect most of the commentators here to at least keep a tiny portion of their minds ajar.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
I would have agreed with you say… 20 years ago but not any more.
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers. Respect and open conversations do not work with many of these people. Their anti-ness has become ideological to the point of religious fervour. To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.
It is time for them to be called out for what they are – fools. Fools who are putting their children’s – and other people’s children’s – health and a viable future in serious jeopardy.
“To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.”
Is it possible for you to provide a link or two as examples of this? I am seriously interested.
And again….according to the IMAC chief, so called ‘anti-vaxxers’ are a very small part of why we are not getting high rates of immunisation coverage.
So…it may very well be the the anti- vax brigade are as angry/shouty/hate- speechy as the pro- vax lynch mob….but they are not having the effect on immunisation rates you seem to think they are.
Well. One Two…thanks for just about ruining our mince and noodle dinner.
What a powerful piece of work, and for those who can spare the time the Ted Talk is totally engrossing.
This should be turning the whole vaccine debate inside out…but as the Doctor Benn says…the whole issue has become so polarised that each side will try and use the findings to give credibility to their stubbornly held point of view. And the very, very real potential benefits of accepting the findings and changing the way we vaccinate will be lost.
No worries, Rosemary…It was really for people such as yourself…it’s not my role to change anyone’s views…that’s an individual choice to expand…
I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…
Some of the comment links are also probable triggers for folks here…
For the time being I’ll limit any linking, as per my comments a few days ago…I’m a long way over this discussion…except to call out those who publish and/or endorse violent hate speech…
The progapanda levels are a signal the establishment has completely lost the decades long control, and they know it…
Real science , research, knowledge and thinking has moved on…people are no longer kept in the dark (unless they willingly choose to be)…and in a few years from now…it will all be over…
Have a good evening…hope you recoverd the meal alright…
‘I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…”
I had to check with a scientist the credibility of The Conversation (because I have trust issues ) and was assured that it was ‘… usually OK…much better than the Guardian’.
The comments section I’m going to read right now.
Passionate commitment to one’s point of view/beliefs/ideology is all very well if tempered with an open mind and respect for the commitment of the opposition…blind adherence and all that.
How many more deaths before we can be brave enough to put our dogmatism aside?
On the subject of vaccination , TC is about as low level as it gets. If you have time…brave some of the other articles over the years…it’s likely that you will pick up the themes and discourse TC publishes…
Often comment sections would mirror the majority on todays thread, here, and then the comments gets closed off…as soon as a counter or two is visible…it is a consistent form of censorship…perhaps due to lack of mods available…but it is an observable occurrence…
I would say that spending prescious time reading anti-scientific and outdated articles about research which only represents established industry position…can be unhealthy…but you’re definitely up to it should you choose to…there is years worth of it on TC…
The piece I linked to, I’ve had to read multiple times in appreciation of the author and her professional yet honest demeanour within the article, as well as her responses in the comments section…gold nuggets can be found…
I’ve been reading through the linked material in comments as some of the linked material and commentary was new for me…I will also watch the ted talk…perhaps TC should leave comments sections open on this subject…
To your question. Many, many magnitudes more than the total global deaths from measles in developed nations…over the past 50 years…
Thanks for the read. AFAIK the live polio vaccine, which was on the immunisation schedule many years ago was changed to the dead polio vaccine after a couple of incidents where mothers got the disease after immunising their children.
I had read many years ago about the benefits of live vaccines, but can’t remember where. Also, about the difference in immunity robustness from people who had the vaccine compared to those who had recovered from the disease. The immune system was much stronger, and the article/paper was discussing the possibility of the body responding with changes to the respiratory system, or mucous membranes, that is not achieved with vaccinations. Sorry, I can’t remember more, it was a while ago.
Salk was to have said the live polio vaccine was responsible for +/- 100% of polio…it was replaced but the damage was done…
The Cutter Incident
With regards to live vaccines and the article in particular…there is also large archives of research of contraindictions resulting from live vaccines, the manufaturing, storage and transport problems including the adjuvants required (similar to attenuated vaccines) which are also problematic…
I linked the article as it is one of the most balanced I’ve encountered in a mainstream web site…and can be understood and progressed from by those who are interested…
Was a good read One Two, and worth the couple of minutes it took to do so.
My children are grown so the vaccination issue is one I don’t look into much anymore. But I am always surprised by the vitriol expressed on this issue, and the calls for mandatory medication. This could be a result of the medium that allows for collective censure, which brings out the bully in all of us, but I can’t remember it being that divisive twenty years ago.
It certainly is testament to the psychological abuse pushed repeatedly at the public, setting parents against eachother, children against eachother as well as children against their own parents…
It has been ramped up to levels which have essentially exposed vaccine science for what it always was…something masquerading as science…there is a word for that…
The aggressive campaigns through corporate media leading to poorly advised and punitive legislations, have created the situation you describe…
Hostile is an understatement…all aimed in the the wrong directions…
Your link cites a study suggesting that, while the DTAP vaccine protects against infection from those three bacteria, it makes children more susceptible to dying from other causes. If this were true, it would certainly concerning however..
It was published in a rather obscure journal. This by itself doesn’t give us an indicator of the quality of the paper, but if we really had data that showed us there was a concern with the DTaP vaccine, an important part of the childhood vaccine schedules worldwide, it should have been published in a higher quality journal.
The study looks at the mortality rate after the vaccine used at that time, which contained the whole-cell version of pertussis. That vaccine was pulled from the market and replaced with an acellular version. Reasons for changing the vaccines are complex, but it was partially because of the higher rate of minor adverse events with the wP version of the pertussis vaccine. There is no evidence I am aware of that the wP version caused more deaths than the current aP version.
The study only examined 1057 children, which is a tiny number in any epidemiological study that tries to compare one group to another to examine a potential effect. Many case control studies that examine vaccine effects (either effectiveness or adverse events) use 100,000 to several million patients and there’s certainly far more data on this vaccine available now at medicine regulators around the world.
The number of deaths that was used in the study was tiny, sometimes only 1 death in a population group (like female unvaccinated children). Because they used such small numbers, unintentional bias could occur.
The deaths were not categorized and may have absolutely nothing to do with vaccination. With such small numbers analyzed, it’s possible that unrelated mortality could have given results that could change dramatically with just a handful of unrelated deaths.
Ironically, the study showed that there was decreased mortality with the children who received oral polio vaccine (separate from the DTP vaccine). If we accept this statistically suspect small sample as unbiased (which we can’t), the overall results are positive with a full vaccination.
This leads me a critical point in the vaccine debate that those critical of vaccination cherry-pick studies that support beliefs about vaccine safety, the antithesis of real science. If we look at larger studies more broadly, what can we say about the safety profile of the DTaP vaccine?
There’s a Danish study that included over 805,000 children looking at various outcomes to getting multiple antigen vaccines, such as DTP or DTaP, came to this conclusion:
‘… results do not support the hypotheses that multiple-antigen vaccines or aggregated vaccine exposure increase the risk of non-targeted infectious disease hospitalization.”
In a meta-review, considered by many as the pinnacle of high quality scientific research hierarchy, which included over 183,000 participants in 58 different trials, the authors concluded that,
‘..Acellular vaccines have fewer adverse effects than whole-cell vaccines for the primary series as well as for booster doses.’
The authors found no vaccine related mortality for either vaccine, which completely contradicts the belief about the lack of safety of the DTaP vaccine.
Hviid A, Wohlfahrt J, Stellfeld M, Melbye M. Childhood vaccination and nontargeted infectious disease hospitalization. JAMA. 2005 Aug 10;294(6):699-705. PubMed PMID: 16091572.
Mogensen SW, Andersen A, Rodrigues A, Benn CS, Aaby P. The Introduction of Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Oral Polio Vaccine Among Young Infants in an Urban African Community: A Natural Experiment. EBioMedicine. 2017 Mar;17:192-198. doi: 10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.01.041. Epub 2017 Feb 1. PubMed PMID: 28188123; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5360569.
Zhang L, Prietsch SO, Axelsson I, Halperin SA. Acellular vaccines for preventing whooping cough in children. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2014 Sep 17;(9):CD001478. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD001478.pub6. Review. PubMed
Mullet, good on you for having a genuine go at contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way…
I am responding as a show of appreciation for that comment…
Comments I’ve posted, yesterday and today provide ample starting points for those who are interested and were able to pick up on them…as such I am not going to address the mesh of points you attempted to raise…
Except these few:
* You, nor anyone in the entire human populace is aware of ‘the entire volume of research’ let alone map it all out…so absolutely…you are not aware of ‘evidence’…same applies to any individual or agency who uses that deceptively misleading statement
* Published in a ‘big journal’ is subjective speculation on your part , and your part only. It transparently leads into the next dot points in effort to create a sense of dismissive minimizing of the research team, the report and the findings
* Cherry picking is your projection and does not alter the validity of the findings in the 190 page report, that you’ve actually cherry picked data from in an attempt to further dismiss and minimize the research findings
* The study reported positive and negative outcomes from the research, and you seek to trivialise all findings claiming ‘size bias’ without referencing the duration of the researched study
Ironically, vaccine science and corporate testing protocols and regulatory licensure have achieved approval to market, including recommended schedule vaccines using highly dubious (documented) tactics and inferior ‘research protocols’ from smaller test cohorts alongside truncated , fast tracked timelines
* Danish studies including the link you posted to last week, have a track record of corporate sponsored ‘research’ becoming reference studies of the vaccine science industry, used ad nauseum by vaccine advertising dependant journals and media outlets
It seems you have more to offer the discussion, than the usual remarks and name calling would suggest…
Well, if you come from a broken home with nothing but shitty role models you might understand the attraction of a man who gives you straight up good advice. The demonisation of Peterson, as some of his views are nonsensical, detract from the fact he’s put a lot of people’s lives back on track.
And the left can’t stand it. He doesn’t preach but it’s based in biblical teaching. He explains why. They don’t care. Utterly shitty people protesting just to protest, you find them at every protest, just wankers looking for excitement in their meaningless lives.
Society, instead of learning what they can from all this, taking the good, made blanket statements of condemnation and all we learned is there’s a lot of judgmental assholes out there prepared to lie and distort things to get their column inches.
It’s trendy to hate Peterson, and banal.
Maybe people think the public will think they’re clever if they one up an intellectual.
you need to watch his talks, not listen to the attention clamoring press.
I’m waiting for the first lawsuits by the kids of anti-vaxxers pro-plaguers (good point JS). Suing their parents after they catch a fully preventable disease because their parents refused to get them vaccinated.
Yet hunger is not the context here. Because there is other bad shit happening, it does not minimise the stupidity of playing russian roulette with a child’s life.
It was a parody of the RNZ headline (a source didn’t go with the style).
It is the most appropriate source for anyone interested in the facts. Someone wih your views ought to know these facts which can then be contrasted with any risk of an adverse effect. Caring and committed child health professionals throughout the world, well appraised with the facts, are entirely convinced by the weight of evidence. Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?
Interesting that you know what my views are – since I haven’t articulated them on this thread…
You have such faith in a medical system and drug clinical trials that allows you to accept all information without question. Some ask questions anyway.
I have faith in the scientific process that utilises qualified people to continually and robustly investigate and test the basis and foundation of knowledge. I trust the motives of people who care for children and I listen carefully to what they say.
For illustration check out the comprehensive and continually expanding list of studies published on the Immunisation Advisory Centre’s website:
I’d like to give another shoutout to Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage for her massive expansion of the National park estate through the Mohikinui River and catchment.
I would also like to give a great big shoutout to all the activists around and in Forest and Bird who campaigned against that dam, squashed those corporate dogs in Meridian, and ensured this great area remains wild and free forever.
It includes about 15km of the Mokihinui riverbed, all of the Mokihinui Forks Ecological Area, a large part of the Lyell Range-Radiant Range conservation area and a small part of what remains of North West Nelson Forest Park, most of which became Kahurangi National Park when it was established in 1996.
The Mokihinui addition to Kahurangi National Park is equivalent in size to Abel Tasman and Paparoa National Parks combined and is twice the size of Egmont National Park.
Kahurangi is the country’s second largest park and with the addition of the Mokihinui land, it will increase in size by 14 per cent to 517,335ha. Fiordland National Park, at more than 1,230,000ha, is the largest national park.
6. PROS AND CONS OF CORRIDORS Noss (1987) provided a list of some potential advantages and disadvantages of ecological corridors. The following is an elaboration of his scheme.
A quick look at the maps shows that AT and Kahurangi NP’s are already very close together; any corridor between the two lies mainly along a relatively short area on the top of the Takaka Hill limestone area, north of the state highway.
From memory most of this area is pretty undeveloped, marginal farmland or regenerating. There are some private dwellings scattered about in the area, but nothing at any scale.
Surely a formal corridor would be feasible, even if it didn’t have the full formal status of a National Park, along with all the restrictions that would imply. Something more like say a Forest Park that permitted existing activities and dwellings, but protected it from further development?
You’re more familiar with the area than I am, would something like that work?
Great news!! Now, we just need to add the Matiri River Valley to the park on its eastern boundary. Oops too late, construction of the hydro scheme is under way. This was one that got the nod from the John Key government – payback to the Talley family for years of National party support.
Lake Matiri is a wildlife refuge and part of Kahurangi NP, the Matiri River Valley was deliberately excluded due to its power generation potential. Despite significant local opposition, the power scheme was consented quite some years ago. The Talley family chose not to make a start (power prices too low?) and recently sold the consent to Pioneer Generation, Talleys still own the land. DOC could have refused the concession due to lack of required reports etc but didn’t. Pressure from above??
.Well done indeed Eugene Thanks Ad. A good post. I see they are leaving the remains of the monster wasp nest in the tree at Hamurana, for fear of poisoning the stream.
Pest control always has fish hooks, but is worth it.
I know there is an issue of scale…but I have dealt to wasp nests by enclosing said structure in a heavy duty plastic bag, tying off the top and cutting the whole caboodle free from it’s anchor. Bag containing wasp nest can then be further contained until inhabitants discorporate. This can be sped up by freezing. Or chemicals.
Of course…the use of a plastic bag might not be acceptable either….oh, life is getting sooo complicated!
Woulda been even more exciting if there was another undetected entrance that led under the house. Seen that almost happen, not quite under the house but uncomfortably close…
Hah! When a neighbour deployed one of those sonic rodent deterrers, our usual non chemical methods of keeping the rat population down in our chook house failed. (The rats moved to our place.) The rats congregating in broad daylight to give us the single digit salute coincided with the failure of a large batch of very hot chili paste to seal properly. We emptied the contents of the bubbling jars down the most used rat runs…..
Back in the day when one could purchase strings of double happy firecrackers….
Humans are apex predators. But I don’t need to kill for food, and nor do domesticated animals. The problem with cats is not killing for food supply so much, as simply killing for fun.
I often wonder if, at some stage, we’d deliberately culled out the ‘cruel’ cats, we’d have a better breed that only killed when hungry.
I’d agree that humans are at the top of the food chain but as far as an apex predator I’d put bears above us. and cats don’t kill for fun, that’s just the human talking. Cats kill vermin that stray in there territory when they not feeding. Cats are cats. I’d suggest people who don’t really understand cats enough to leave them alone instead of dating bits off them and making them carry around fashion accessories, I’d suggest they get a goldfish.
Muscled, black with steel green eye
Swishing through the rye grass
With thoughts of mouse and apple pie
Tail balancing at half-mast
And the mouse police never sleeps
Lying in the cherry tree
Savage bed foot warmer
Of purest feline ancestry
Look out, little furry folk
He’s the all night working cat
Eats but one in every ten
Leaves the others on the mat
And the mouse police never sleeps
Waiting by the cellar door
Window-box town crier
Birth and death registrar
With claws that rake a furrow red
Licensed to mutilate
From warm milk on a lazy day
To dawn patrol on hungry hate
No, the mouse police never sleeps
Climbing on the ivy
Windy roof top weathercock
Warm blooded night on a cold tile
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
…
Songwriters: Ian Anderson
Could we develop a family of cats which are really good mice catchers. That would save me putting down poisoned grain and have mousetraps littering the place. I think the parents have to teach the catching skills, so by careful breeding and initiation procedures, they would be very useful cats and not a disdained predator – they could be as valuable as trained sheep dogs.
Dogs have a lineage of pack hunting and scavenging which made them really suseptable to domestication where as cats are extremely territorial and would savage humans in an instance if it was large enough and it’s a simple as that.
My encounters with the buzzy things have been during house painting or gardening. I never could see the logic in using chemicals which inevitably infuriate the beasts if one is having to continue working in that area. Hence the containment. Mind you…I don’t have one of those nifty zoot suits.
This wasp nest is right round the trunk of a palm tree and the tree could be damaged. It’s growing on a steep slope, slippery for the blokes, and perhaps slippy if tree died or was removed leaving soil uncovered and exposed to the heavy rain we are getting.
WTF??!!? Somehow I just took it as given that a major government building initiative would include at least include the simplest and basic energy and cost efficient choices. But it seems not …
Meanwhile, if there’s any readers with any concern whatsoever for their budget that are still using old-skool incandescent bulbs, get yourself to Bunnings or Mitre 10 today and buy replacement LED bulbs for them. Seriously. Do it now. You can get them for $3 each or less.
You’ll want warm white colour (unless you like your house to look like the alien autopsy room in a bad sci-fi movie), for most fixtures look at the existing incandescent bulb and divide the watts by 10. I’ve pretty much replaced all bulbs that were 100W incandescents when I moved in with 9W LEDs and I’m happy with the how much light there is. If you want more tech details, ask and I’ll write up a bit more.
By the $, a 100W incandescent costs $0.02 to $0.03 per hour, so if it’s on an average of 1 hour per day, that’s $7 to $11 per year. Plus incandescents only have a design life of 1000 hours, by industry agreement. Compare to an LED that costs $3 initially to buy, but pays for itself in electricity savings in 3 to 6 months and should last 10,000 hours or longer.
If you’ve now got compact fluorescents, it’s probably still worth changing to LEDs but the payback time is two or four years. And you get full light instantly instead of the fluorescents taking a minute or so to warm up and get to full brightness.
Flourescent bulbs were a massive gyp. i think I posted on them here some time back. The past is past. LED’s must have improved cos last I looked at them (probably a decade) they were good for a few months then diminished capacity was the norm.
Yeah there’s been huge improvements in LEDs over the last decade. But if you’re still suspicious, keep the receipt for a warranty or CGA claim if they do start to fade.
Ten years ago I paid $6 each for the nearly best new tech available to make myself mountain bike lights – 1Watt chips mounted on a 23mm aluminium star module heatsink that put out a then amazing 100 lumens/watt. Nowadays if I were inclined to do the same thing I’d be paying about $1.50 each for 10W chips mounted on a 12mm heatsink that would be up around 140 lumens/watt.
The key to long life in LEDs is keeping the chip from getting hot. They’ve learned a lot about getting better thermal paths from the chip to the heatsink, and in turning more of the electrical energy into light so there’s less heat to dissipate.
Interesting info Andre. I knew LED’s had improved, but for a relatively mature tech that’s pretty impressive.
By complete contrast I recall buying my first red LED almost 50 years ago, it took me ages to save for it, and it barely glowed by today’s standards. But it was worth it just to have this amazing new light source in my own hands.
Dunno that I’d call LEDs relatively mature. There’s still a hell of a lot of space for improvement that nobody has found a way into yet.
For general lighting with acceptable colour rendering, a device that turns 100% of input electrical energy into useful light would put out about 370 lumens/watt. At the moment, the best LEDs top out around 200 lumens/watt.
At the moment, most white LEDs are actually a blue LED shining through a yellow phosphor. So there’s significant light energy lost and heat generated for every blue photon that gets turned into a yellow photon.
The next level of energy efficiency is combining blue LEDs shining through a green phosphor with red LEDs (these are commercially available as Phillips Hue LEDs at horrendous price). There’s less energy lost turning a blue photon into a green one and the necessary red photons are separately emitted at high efficiency by the red LED. Our eyes also respond to red, green and blue light, so a light source that directly emits red, green and blue has an inherent efficiency headstart over a light source that’s blue and yellow. It’s also possible to vary how much energy goes into the red vs the blue-and-green, so the light can change from a cozy yellowish warm light to a brighter daylightish white when wanted.
So that naturally raises the question of producing white light with separate red, green, and blue LEDs. Well, nobody has yet found a way to make high-efficiency green LEDs, so that’s an area with potential.
I agree. Seems like Twyford wants to make the coalition look like luddites, but more likely he has been knee-capped by whoever made the design decision. Twyford ought to apologise to the public, acknowledge that the govt wants to implement Green house designs, and direct his department to operate accordingly. Bad looks like this will hurt the coalition unless swift remedial action is taken.
That a level of detail that should have been dealt to several pay grades below Twyford. As I see it, there’s even a potential messaging opportunity here for Twyford to push change to a new way of doing thing. Where instead of the initial cost ruling all decisions there’s more attention on whole-of-life costs.
Twyford has screwed completely a policy that was 7 years in the making, thru what … lack of any detail to implement, and has not delivered more than a few spec builders would have supplied to the market in the same period.
To limit to 1st home buyers was a mistake imo, and should the time come that we have any volume, many of today’s 1st buyers will already have moved into a place.
Honestly can anyone expect 1st buyers wait until an appropriate house comes available in their town/city?
Why would people say that not having LED bulbs installed in the homes was a case of lacking in energy efficiency? The sockets for the lights are the same as incandescent if looking at the cheapest and safest. My incandescents cost a little over $1 each and last six months. It would seem that buying LEDs is better, so if I can get warm white, (I dislike the stark white-blue alernative), and am not price-limited I will buy them. But I like having incandescents as spares that I keep in reserve for failures.
Not everyone can get cheap LEDs where they shop. Incandescents should be kept as cheap alternartives while education about the LEDs should continue. That easy calculation of dividing by 10 to find the right level of light when choosing LEDs is handy thanks. Looking at the lumens and other terminology is confusing and people have limited time to moon over products gathering information in the shop.
At my place with 2 adults and 3 kids at home on after dark it was quite feasible for 20 or even 30 bulbs to be lit up. At an average of say 75W each (if they were incandescents) that would be a load of 1.5kW to 2.5 kw, at peak time. and maybe 3 to 5 kWhr per day just for lighting.
Swap those to LED and it’s around 0.2 to 0.3 kw lighting load at peak time, and less than 1 kWhr per day usage for lighting.
How is that difference not an energy efficiency issue?
Furthermore in a new build you can design the lighting around the characteristics of LED lighting and the way LEDs are more directional. LEDs also don’t generate enough heat to risk starting fires if something like insulation or wood is too close. The insulation issue can be a big one, it’s surprising how much warmth can get lost through old-skool ceiling downlight fixtures that have to have the insulation set back quite a distance.
Michael Cullen has been involved with finance for yonks. Just to refresh us on old but important history: When the Prime Minister, David Lange, attempted to limit the influence Douglas had on the government’s direction, Cullen became involved on Lange’s side. After Labour’s re-election in 1987, Cullen was made Associate Minister of Finance (an attempt by Lange to provide an anti-reform counterbalance to the radical Douglas) and Minister of Social Welfare (an attempt to limit the impact of the reforms in that area).
Eventually, Douglas was forced to resign, but a month later the political controversies around the dispute prompted the resignation of Lange himself. Douglas was succeeded as Finance Minister by David Caygill, one of his allies (albeit a considerably less radical one). Cullen was made Associate Minister of Health, again to reduce the effect of reforms on that sector.
When Labour lost the 1990 election (something attributed by many people to public anger at Douglas’ reforms, and disarray within the Labour Party), Cullen returned to being Labour’s spokesperson on social welfare. The following year, he replaced David Caygill as the party’s chief finance spokesperson…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cullen_(politician)
Eric the Ripper has a good ring to it, he and Hotchin towelled up a few investors here in NZ and even managed to get Sir Owen Glenn over a barrell. Karma is a bitch isn’t it.
Their was one thing that was missing from this report.
The IRD, in 2002, approved the scheme. They gave an opinion that it was an Approved Issuer and that the 2% was the correct rate.
The in 2010 the reversed their opinion. That, unfortunately is something the IRD do quite commonly. The effect is that people who relied on the opinion given by the IRD find, much later on, that they have changed their mind and claim taxes and penalties for something they said was fine.
I have no objection to them changing their view. However I don’t believe they should be able to backdate the change.
It is rather like them dropping the blood alcohol limit from 80 to 50 and then fining everyone who was measured at a level between 50 and 80 at a time when that was quite legal.
It is, in practice, passing a retrospective law.
‘Shipley also invests US$50,000 in Richina. According to numbers quoted by Richard Yan during the court case, Shipley’s investment in the Chinese company could now potentially be worth US$14 million ($22 million), on paper at least.’
Reading this,it seems very clear what was going on here.There is a name for it that begins with F.
female
fortitude
felony
fandangle
flaccid
fart
finagle
fact-finding
foolishness
That’s my stream of consciousness thinking – the f’s that came to mind.
Here’s a couple of interesting articles on insurance, or not being able to get insurance in specific areas due to risk from natural disasters or the result of CC.
Now remind me of what the role of the former State Insurance was prior to it being sold and what the then muppets said about the market is always right as there is no need to have a Government own/ backed insurance company.
I’m a little bit surprised that the IAG can 50% of the market share in Wellington and if IAG is prepared to do this to Wellington, then what does this say IRT other parts of the country that are at risk from earthquakes and volcanic eruptions?
At a briefing on the new indictments Tuesday, Andrew Lelling, a U.S. attorney for Massachusetts, said that some parents paid up to $6.5 million “to guarantee admission” for their children to elite colleges. He said that a total of 33 parents have been charged.
“There will not be a separate admissions system for the wealthy. And there will not be a separate criminal justice system, either,” Lelling said.
How about we ditch the lawnmower and plant a range of pasture grasses and flowers instead which wouldgrow unhindered and as the season changes so do the different species?
Seems strange that we spend so much time mowing stuff and annoying the suburbians.
Pro-life my arse.
I can’t quite put in word how much i despise these fucking forced birthers and how much i despite doctors that would let a women develop a sepsis before ‘aborting’ the rotting fetus she carries cause ‘heartbeat’.
“In one case, a patient who had suffered cardiac arrest shortly before getting pregnant did not meet the hospital’s threshold for life endangerment and was unable to afford to travel and pay for an abortion at the nearest hospital that would see her, about four hours away. She ended up miscarrying in her second trimester. In another case, a patient who was dying from metastatic cancer needed abortion care. The hospital took so long to deliberate, she miscarried too.
“Our conversation should have been like, ‘How can we help you heal and meet whatever your goals are in this terrible situation’, and not about this stupid law,” the doctor said.
“My hands are tied,” she continued. “I can’t do what’s right for the patient.””
yes one can keep roe vs wade ‘legal’ yet put up so many ‘trap’ laws that effectively even a women dying of a septic pregnancy will not get the care she needs. Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women. I can’t find other reasons then hate disguised as ‘won’t no one think of the babies’ cause no, you are not fucking thinking of the baby – born or unborn – and you certainly don’t care about the ‘host’ aka the mothers. (hosts – https://www.google.com/search?q=pregnant+women+are+hosts&oq=pregnant+women+are+hosts&aqs=chrome..69i57.4072j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 )
Well I’m pro choice because arguably the fetus is apart of the woman.
That’s why in my opinion consent is more important than pro choice. The age of legal consent should be again, and this is my opinion, but it should be 21 – 25 years old to account for brain development and basically there’s no marked improvement in income until you’re a graduate.
Having to continue carrying a baby that is dead inside you, is one of the joys that the ethical society force on some unfortunate women. It’s not a healthy situation for her, and negates any suggestion that women and their fertility role is respected by society and those in power. A hero – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
What names do others know of who have championed women in their fertility burden?
“Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women.”
Yes there are circumstances in which abortion is the only humane option. But I encourage you to watch this. To the end.
Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.
So no,
if you read the article above you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain, unable to walk, with fever and because they are not yet ‘actively’ dying do not get the health care they need and should be entitled too.
But maybe you missed the part that i put in quotes ‘ had miscarriages in the second trimester’ cause obviously it is more important for the women to suffer some more month then give them the care they need.
So take your preacher / ob gyn and shove him where its dark. Cause this guy will never be denied healthcare, he will never be left to fester with a dead fetus until he ‘actively is dying’ and he will never have to make the choice of having an abortion at an early stage or when you are told that your child that you wanted is growing with a brain outside the skull or has not lungs and that you can’t have an abortion cause hey, women, you are a host, and as such you would have no issues birthing this child and then watch it die.
Pro life my ass. Forced birth. Once born, pull yerself up by your bootstrap child.
‘…you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain…”
So why the rant about abortion? The issue you are raising is a valid health issue, not necessarily connected to access to abortions.
“Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.”
That’s rather closed minded. He has performed thousands of abortions, and is describing the utter inhumanity if the process. It is chilling.
add new KiwiSaver contribution rates of 6% and 10% and make the savings scheme accessible to those aged over 65;
I’m running on 8% kiwisaver at present, and getting some quite reasonable returns. I wouldn’t mind kicking that up as everything is automatic and way less hassle than dealing with other investments on an ongoing basis. Essentially automatic payments really waste my personal time when they come out of my working account. It doesn’t take much to suddenly be providing the bank with extra revenue with fees. And even worse, I get people trying to ring me when I’m coding which is REALLY expensive.
Which is why I’ve pretty well eliminated most of automatic payments including those to other investment funds. Paying as part of my PAYE is way easier which is now the only way I do it. Other bills just get paid when I have a few spare minutes on my phone.
But I would like to push a bit more into investments. It’d be nice to have a 12% or 15%. But 10% is better than 8%
Also I’m not planning on stopping work (or riding my e-bike to work) unless I really really have to. I’m nearly 60 now and still coding well. Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.
“Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.”
🙂
Careful tho’ @ lprent – things like experience and proven record can often account for sweat FA these days
I have tended to rely less on experience and track records than on companies being desperate to get their projects out of the door.
Most jobs that I have had in programming for the last couple of decades has been after whoever I went to work for had an unfortunate problem of some kind caused by mismanagement of their projects in their staffing, documentation, design, or implementation and needing someone to recover it.
i am so pleased about it. My shop girl studies, works for me and has a few other side digs in summer when the tourist come. I am so pleased for her that she does not have to pay more taxes on her income now then Gareth Morgan.
The utterances of Molyneux, Southern and Peterson seem benign compared to the pro-plague propaganda this fucking terrorist is spreading.
She’s a wellness blogger married to an @NRL star, charging parents hundreds of dollars each to hear her controversial views on childhood vaccinations. Now, Taylor Winterstein is taking her workshops on the road, and doctors say she’s putting lives at risk. @AmberLaidler7#7Newspic.twitter.com/Ol8scuVHXk
Seems an attention getter, without having to strip, but it really is part of a porn movement to look at me, I’m good looking and achieving celebrity and you can be like me. Tell people things that make them think, or feel they have gone through the motions.
It’s mental gym here folks, worry about my subject, and don’t waste your energies on the rest of life, which is confusing and debilitating to the mind. Stay with us and reeelaaax your mind, and together we will solve your problems. Half the things you worry about don’t happen. You can have twice as much fun in your life if you just stop worrying about finding the truth and just listen to us; listen to our Foundation; The Foundation of Life.
Watch out for that in your letterbox and on line soon. Someone will pick up on that to sell something to the peeps.
poor thing, still trying to get away from tax faster then anyone can say boo.
Can’t have Gareth Morgan pay taxes. Now that would upset the tax evader.
Poor thing, did no one tell him that he would have to pay nothing if he is not selling his assets:? Oh that is how he made his money in the first place? Sucks to be him.
This inclusion of taxation upon all income to capital (not just homes but all non-financial capital) properly integrated into the current income tax regime…”
I don’t know what that means. Annual levies? Does that mean like higher Rates?
I have sought an answer for this but does anyone know how this would be better than CGT?
Morgan is not entirely clear on what he means by “annual levies”, but I think he means the tax on imputed rentals. Perhaps The Economixt sees the lack of these as a possible justification for capital gains taxes, but thinks it would be better to apply them on a regular basis rather than as lump sum tax when the property is sold.
Morgan provides a link to the Economist article but it’s behind a paywall. However the headline indicates that what the Economist wanted to replace was stamp duty on the sale of a property.
That would be good – a CGT of reasonable percentage on commercial and rented properties. Then stamp duty of a small percentage on all properties.
Two bites at a luscious cherry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you lachrymose speculators. (I thought I would throw in a new word to the stewpot with the so many others used in the debate about taxes on housing.)
I think you are misunderstanding the comments. The Economist was writing about the British situation, and recommending that their stamp duty be abandoned, and replaced by an annual payment of some sort. Without having access to the Economist article I cannot say what the nature of that annual payment would be.
A woman complained that there were’nt jobs available to locals. If it was her personally, she should have put up her own advert. If it was general she should have not butted in, it isn’t the Finnish woman’s fault and it was just bad-mouthing her instead of the politician who should be controlling foreign workers. But she iwould be unlikely to have put her thoughts to the polly, most NZs just vent, full of sour air.
And the men who used the opportunity to make remarks that were sleazy or suggestive, that is so childish. They have no awareness of how to communicate in a public place, as on-line sites are, and that shows lack of maturity too. I wonder where these men learned their attitudes towards women? In the home? Is it being passed on down the generations in some farm families? And the old refrain – just having a joke, some people have no sense of humour.
by Daphna Whitmore Twitter and Facebook shutting down Trump’s accounts after his supporters stormed Capitol Hill is old news now but the debates continue over whether the actions against Trump are a good thing or not. Those in favour of banning Trump say Twitter and Facebook are private companies and ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Democrats now control the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives for the first time in a decade, albeit with razor thin Congressional majorities. The last time, in the 111th Congress (2009-2011), House Democrats passed a carbon cap and trade bill, but it died ...
Session thirty-three was highly abbreviated, via having to move house in a short space of time. Oh well. The party decided to ignore the tree-monster and continue the attack on the Giant Troll. Tarsin – flying on a giant summoned bat – dumped some high-grade oil over the ...
Last night I stayed up till 3am just to see then-President Donald Trump leave the White House, get on a plane, and fly off to Florida, hopefully never to return. And when I woke up this morning, America was different. Not perfect, because it never was. Probably not even good, ...
Watching today’s inauguration of Joe Biden as the United States’ 46th president, there’s not a lot in common with the inauguration of Donald Trump just four destructive years ago. Where Trump warned of carnage, Biden dared to hope for unity and decency. But the one place they converge is that ...
Dan FalkBritons who switched on their TVs to “Good Morning Britain” on the morning of Sept. 15, 2020, were greeted by news not from our own troubled world, but from neighboring Venus. Piers Morgan, one of the hosts, was talking about a major science story that had surfaced the ...
Sara LutermanGrowing up autistic in a non-autistic world can be very isolating. We are often strange and out of sync with peers, despite our best efforts. Autistic adults have, until very recently, been largely absent from media and the public sphere. Finding role models is difficult. Finding useful advice ...
Doug JohnsonThe alien-like blooms and putrid stench of Amorphophallus titanum, better known as the corpse flower, draw big crowds and media coverage to botanical gardens each year. In 2015, for instance, around 75,000 people visited the Chicago Botanic Garden to see one of their corpse flowers bloom. More than ...
Getting to Browser Tab Zero so I can reboot the computer is awfully hard when the one open tab is a Table of Contents for the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, and every issue has more stuff I want to read. A few highlights: Gugler et al demonstrating ...
Timothy Ford, University of Massachusetts Lowell and Charles M. Schweik, University of Massachusetts AmherstTo mitigate health inequities and promote social justice, coronavirus vaccines need to get to underserved populations and hard-to-reach communities. There are few places in the U.S. that are unreachable by road, but other factors – many ...
Israel chose to pay a bit over the odds for the Pfizer vaccine to get earlier access. Here’s The Times of Israel from 16 November. American government will be charged $39 for each two-shot dose, and the European bloc even less, but Jerusalem said to agree to pay $56. Israel ...
Orla is a gender critical Marxist in Ireland. She gave a presentation on 15 January 2021 on the connection between postmodern/transgender identity politics and the current attacks on democratic and free speech rights. Orla has been active previously in the Irish Socialist Workers Party and the People Before Profit electoral ...
. . America: The Empire Strikes Back (at itself) Further to my comments in the first part of 2020: The History That Was, the following should be considered regarding the current state of the US. They most likely will be by future historians pondering the critical decades of ...
Nathaniel ScharpingIn March, as the Covid-19 pandemic began to shut down major cities in the U.S., researchers were thinking about blood. In particular, they were worried about the U.S. blood supply — the millions of donations every year that help keep hospital patients alive when they need a transfusion. ...
Sarah L Caddy, University of CambridgeVaccines are a marvel of medicine. Few interventions can claim to have saved as many lives. But it may surprise you to know that not all vaccines provide the same level of protection. Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you ...
Back in 2016, the Portuguese government announced plans to stop burning coal by 2030. But progress has come much quicker, and they're now scheduled to close their last coal plant by the end of this year: The Sines coal plant in Portugal went offline at midnight yesterday evening (14 ...
The Sincerest Form Of Flattery: As anybody with the intestinal fortitude to brave the commentary threads of local news-sites, large and small, will attest, the number of Trump-supporting New Zealanders is really quite astounding. IT’S SO DIFFICULT to resist the temptation to be smug. From the distant perspective of New Zealand, ...
RNZ reports on continued arbitrariness on decisions at the border. British comedian Russell Howard is about to tour New Zealand and other acts allowed in through managed isolation this summer include drag queen RuPaul and musicians at Northern Bass in Mangawhai and the Bay Dreams festival. The vice-president of the ...
As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop focusing on our managed isolation and quarantine system and instead protect the elderly so that they can ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 through Sat, Jan 16, 2021Editor's ChoiceNASA says 2020 tied for hottest year on record — here’s what you can do to helpPhoto by Michael Held on Unsplash ...
Health authorities in Norway are reporting some concerns about deaths in frail elderly after receiving their COVID-19 vaccine. Is this causally related to the vaccine? Probably not but here are the things to consider. According to the news there have been 23 deaths in Norway shortly after vaccine administration and ...
Happy New Year! No, experts are not concerned that “…one of New Zealand’s COIVD-1( vaccines will fail to protect the country” Here is why. But first I wish to issue an expletive about this journalism (First in Australia and then in NZ). It exhibits utter failure to actually truly consult ...
All nations have shadows; some acknowledge them. For others they shape their image in uncomfortable ways.The staunch Labour supporter was in despair at what her Rogernomics Government was doing. But she finished ‘at least, we got rid of Muldoon’, a response which tells us that then, and today, one’s views ...
Grigori GuitchountsIn November, Springer Nature, one of the world’s largest publishers of scientific journals, made an attention-grabbing announcement: More than 30 of its most prestigious journals, including the flagship Nature, will now allow authors to pay a fee of US$11,390 to make their papers freely available for anyone to read ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Gary Yohe, Henry Jacoby, Richard Richels, and Benjamin Santer Imagine a major climate change law passing the U.S. Congress unanimously? Don’t bother. It turns out that you don’t need to imagine it. Get this: The Global Change Research Act of 1990 was passed ...
“They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”WHO CAN FORGET the penultimate scene of the 1956 movie classic, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? The wild-eyed doctor, stumbling down the highway, trying desperately to warn his fellow citizens: “They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”Ostensibly science-fiction, the movie ...
TheOneRing.Net has got its paws on the official synopsis of the upcoming Amazon Tolkien TV series. It’s a development that brings to mind the line about Sauron deliberately releasing Gollum from the dungeons of Barad-dûr. Amazon knew exactly what they were doing here, in terms of drumming up publicity: ...
Since Dwight Eisenhower’s inauguration in 1953, US presidents have joined an informal club intended to provide support - and occasionally rivalry - between those few who have been ‘leaders of the free world’. Donald Trump, elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ and a constant mocker of his predecessors, ...
For over a decade commentators have noted the rise of a new brand of explicitly ideological politics throughout the world. By this they usually refer to the re-emergence of national populism and avowedly illiberal approaches to governance throughout the “advanced” democratic community, but they also extend the thought to the ...
The US House of Representatives has just impeached Donald Trump, giving him the dubious honour of being the only US President to be impeached twice. Ten Republicans voted for impeachement, making it the most bipartisan impeachment ever. The question now is whether the Senate will rise to the occasion, and ...
Kieren Mitchell; Alice Mouton, Université de Liège; Angela Perri, Durham University, and Laurent Frantz, Ludwig Maximilian University of MunichThanks to the hit television series Game of Thrones, the dire wolf has gained a near-mythical status. But it was a real animal that roamed the Americas for at least 250,000 ...
Tide of tidal data rises Having cast our own fate to include rising sea level, there's a degree of urgency in learning the history of mean sea level in any given spot, beyond idle curiosity. Sea level rise (SLR) isn't equal from one place to another and even at a particular ...
Well, some of those chickens sure came home bigly, didn’t they… and proceeded to shit all over the nice carpet in the Capitol. What we were seeing here are societal forces that have long had difficulty trying to reconcile people to the “idea” of America and the reality of ...
In the wake of Donald Trump's incitement of an assault on the US capitol, Twitter finally enforced its terms of service and suspended his account. They've since followed that up with action against prominent QAnon accounts and Trumpers, including in New Zealand. I'm not unhappy with this: Trump regularly violated ...
Peter S. Ross, University of British ColumbiaThe Arctic has long proven to be a barometer of the health of our planet. This remote part of the world faces unprecedented environmental assaults, as climate change and industrial chemicals threaten a way of life for Inuit and other Indigenous and northern ...
Susan St John makes the case for taxing a deemed rate of return on excessive real estate holdings (after a family home exemption), to redirect scarce housing resources to where they are needed most. Read the full article here ...
I’m less than convinced by arguments that platforms like Twitter should be subject to common carrier regulation preventing them from being able to decide who to keep on as clients of their free services, and who they would not like to serve. It’s much easier to create competition for the ...
The hypocritical actions of political leaders throughout the global Covid pandemic have damaged public faith in institutions and governance. Liam Hehir chronicles the way in which contemporary politicians have let down the public, and explains how real leadership means walking the talk. During the Blitz, when German bombs were ...
Over the years, we've published many rebuttals, blog posts and graphics which came about due to direct interactions with the scientists actually carrying out the underlying research or being knowledgable about a topic in general. We'll highlight some of these interactions in this blog post. We'll start with two memorable ...
Yesterday we had the unseemly sight of a landleech threatening to keep his houses empty in response to better tenancy laws. Meanwhile in Catalonia they have a solution for that: nationalisation: Barcelona is deploying a new weapon in its quest to increase the city’s available rental housing: the power ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters, PhD The 2020 global wildfire season brought extreme fire activity to the western U.S., Australia, the Arctic, and Brazil, making it the fifth most expensive year for wildfire losses on record. The year began with an unprecedented fire event ...
NOTE: This is an excerpt from a digital story – read the full story here.Tess TuxfordKo te Kauri Ko Au, Ko te Au ko Kauri I am the kauri, the kauri is me Te Roroa proverb In Waipoua Forest, at the top of the North Island, New ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Poster of the Week... SkS Week in Review... Story of the Week... Coming attraction: IPCC's upcoming major climate assessmentLook for more emphasis on 'solutions,' efforts by cities, climate equity ... and outlook for emissions cuts in ...
Ringing A Clear Historical Bell: The extraordinary images captured in and around the US Capitol Building on 6 January 2021 mirror some of the worst images of America's past.THERE IS A SCENE in the 1982 movie Missing which has remained with me for nearly 40 years. Directed by the Greek-French ...
To impact or not to impeach? I understand why some of those who are justifiably aghast at Trump’s behaviour over recent days might still counsel against impeaching him for a second time. To impeach him, they argue, would run the risk of making him a martyr in the eyes of ...
The Capitol Building, Washington DC, Wednesday, 6 January 2021. Oh come, my little one, come.The day is almost done.Be at my side, behold the sightOf evening on the land.The life, my love, is hardAnd heavy is my heart.How should I live if you should leaveAnd we should be apart?Come, let me ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 3, 2021 through Sat, Jan 9, 2021Editor's ChoiceAfter the Insurrection: Accountability, Reform, and the Science of Democracy The poisonous lies and enablers of sedition--including Senator Hawley, pictured ...
This article, guest authored by Prof. Angela Gallego-Sala & Dr. Julie Loisel, was originally published on the Carbon Brief website on Dec 21, 2020. It is reposted below in its entirety. Click here to access the original article and comments. Peatlands Peatlands are ecosystems unlike any other. Perpetually saturated, their ...
The assault on the US Capitol and constitutional crisis that it has caused was telegraphed, predictable and yet unexpected and confusing. There are several subplots involved: whether the occupation of the Michigan State House in May was a trial run for the attacks on Congress; whether people involved in the ...
On Christmas Eve, child number 1 spotted a crack in a window. It’s a double-glazed window, and inspection showed that the small, horizontal crack was in the outermost pane. It was perpendicular to the frame, about three-quarters of the way up one side. The origins are a mystery. It MIGHT ...
Anne-Marie Broudehoux, Université du Québec à Montréal (UQAM)Will the COVID-19 pandemic prompt a shift to healthier cities that focus on wellness rather than functional and economic concerns? This is a hypothesis that seems to be supported by several researchers around the world. In many ways, containment and physical distancing ...
Does the US need to strike a grand bargain with like-minded countries to pool their efforts? What does this tell us about today’s global politics? Perhaps the most remarkable editorial of last year was the cover leader of the London Economist on 19 November 2020. Shortly after Joe Biden was ...
Alexander Gillespie, University of Waikato and Valmaine Toki, University of WaikatoAotearoa New Zealand likes to think it punches above its weight internationally, but there is one area where we are conspicuously falling behind — the number of sites recognised by the UNESCO World Heritage Convention. Globally, there are 1,121 ...
An event organised by the Auckland PhilippinesSolidarity group Have a three-course lunch at Nanam Eatery with us! Help support the organic farming of our Lumad communities through the Mindanao Community School Agricultural Foundation. Each ticket is $50. Food will be served on shared plates. To purchase, please email phsolidarity@gmail.com or ...
"Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." Prisons are places of unceasing emotional and physical violence, unrelieved despair and unforgivable human waste.IT WAS NATIONAL’S Bill English who accurately described New Zealand’s prisons as “fiscal and moral failures”. On the same subject, Labour’s Dr Martyn Findlay memorably suggested that no prison ...
This is a re-post from Inside Climate News by Ilana Cohen. Inside Climate News is a nonprofit, independent news organization that covers climate, energy and the environment. Sign up for the ICN newsletter here. Whether or not people accept the science on Covid-19 and climate change, both global crises will have lasting impacts on health and ...
. . American Burlesque As I write this (Wednesday evening, 6 January), the US Presidential election is all but resolved, confirming Joe Biden as the next President of the (Dis-)United State of America. Trump’s turbulent political career has lasted just four years – one of the few single-term US presidents ...
The session started off so well. Annalax – suitably chastised – spent a pleasant morning with his new girlfriend (he would say paramour, of course, but for our purposes, girlfriend is easier*). He told her about Waking World Drow, and their worship of Her Ladyship. And he started ...
In a recent column I wrote for local newspapers, I ventured to suggest that Donald Trump – in addition to being a liar and a cheat, and sexist and racist – was a fascist in the making and would probably try, if he were to lose the election, to defy ...
A growing public housing waiting list and continued increase of house prices must be urgently addressed by Government, Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson said today. ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. “The Battle at Te Ruapekapeka Pā, which took ...
Babies born with tongue-tie will be assessed and treated consistently under new guidelines released by the Ministry of Health, Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Around 5% to 10% of babies are born with a tongue-tie, or ankyloglossia, in New Zealand each year. At least half can ...
The prisoner disorder event at Waikeria Prison is over, with all remaining prisoners now safely and securely detained, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says. The majority of those involved in the event are members of the Mongols and Comancheros. Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to ...
Travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States bound for New Zealand will be required to get a negative test result for COVID-19 before departing, and work is underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. “The new PCR test requirement, foreshadowed last ...
With criticism from National piling on over the property market, the prime minister has detailed when the government will make housing announcements. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marco Rizzi, Senior Lecturer in Law, University of Western Australia Some Australians could be receiving a COVID-19 vaccine within weeks. Amid the continued spread of the virus and emergence of highly contagious variants, the federal government has accelerated the start of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Euan Ritchie, Professor in Wildlife Ecology and Conservation, Centre for Integrative Ecology, School of Life & Environmental Sciences, Deakin University Australia’s Threatened Species Strategy — a five-year plan for protecting our imperilled species and ecosystems — fizzled to an end last year. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Lecturer, General Dentist & PhD Candidate, The University of Queensland Baby teeth, or milk teeth, act like lighthouses to guide the adult ones to their correct destination. A baby tooth will become wobbly and fall out because the adult tooth ...
Business is Boring is a weekly podcast series presented by The Spinoff in association with Callaghan Innovation. Host Simon Pound speaks with innovators and commentators focused on the future of New Zealand. This week he’s joined by Simon Coley, co-founder of All Good and Karma Drinks.Bananas are one of the ...
Tackling topics such as rugby and body image, Stuff’s latest podcast shines a much-needed light on Aotearoa’s complex relationship with masculinity, writes Trevor McKewen, author of the book Real Men Wear Black.I wasn’t sure what to think when two episodes of the new local podcast He’ll Be Right landed in ...
The Rainforest Alliance reveals that 68%* of Kiwis say the COVID-19 pandemic has made them more conscious about environmental and social sustainability issues. Seventy two percent* state that they have been trying to make more sustainable purchasing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tama Leaver, Professor of Internet Studies, Curtin University The inventor of the World Wide Web, Tim Berners-Lee, has raised concerns that Australia’s proposed News Media and Digital Platforms Mandatory Bargaining Code could fundamentally break the internet as we know it. His concerns ...
ANALYSIS:By Scott Lucas, University of Birmingham Politics doesn’t have to be a raging fire destroying everything in its path Two weeks after the storming of the US Capitol by the followers of his predecessor, in the middle of an out-of-control pandemic that has killed more than 400,000 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Cantrell, Lecturer, Creative Writing & English Literature, University of Southern Queensland Described as “the world’s greatest storyteller”, Roald Dahl is frequently ranked as the best children’s author of all time by teachers, authors and librarians. However, the new film adaptation of ...
Peak housing body, Community Housing Aotearoa (CHA) welcomes the updated Public Housing Plan announced today by Minister Woods, and the commitment by this Government to fix New Zealand’s housing crisis. The 8,000 additional homes are a significant ...
Having recently walked much of the South Island stretch of Te Araroa, Kirsten O’Regan reflects on the magnificent landscapes and interesting characters she encountered along the way.On our 36th day of walking, we climb through the fire-blackened hills above Ohau, stopping to examine heat-disfigured trail markers. Fresh green shoots have ...
Miss Torta in central Auckland is putting the spotlight on a snack that’s commonplace in Mexico, but until now relatively unknown in New Zealand.You’ve heard of a torta, but what is it, exactly? Well, depending on the cuisine it can mean a flatbread, cake, tart, sweet pie, savoury pie or ...
Two of three ministerial statements from the Beehive have been released in the name of the PM over the past two days. The more important, insofar as it involves political action that will affect the wellbeing of significant numbers of Kiwis, was the release of the government’s Public Housing Plan ...
Jacinda Ardern has reminded Labour MPs "ongoing vigilance" will be required in 2021 to avoid another Covid outbreak, admitting she held her breath over the summer break. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Zareh Ghazarian, Senior Lecturer, School of Social Sciences, Monash University Despite many young Australians having a deep interest in political issues, most teenagers have a limited understanding about their nation’s democratic system. Results from the 2019 National Assessment Program – Civics and ...
Pinged $65 for overstaying 10 minutes in a parking block? Put away your hard-earned cash and read this first.Hopefully, by now, I’ve already established myself at The Spinoff as the resident tightarse, determined to avoid all unfair and unnecessary punishments (see: oversize baggage charges). Today, I’m focusing my attention on ...
Nuclear weapons states and their allies risk reputational ruin if they flout a new UN Treaty, Carolina Panico argues The United Nations Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons will come into force this month, on January 22, 2021, turning nuclear weapons into illegal objects. It is an achievement that ...
How does one turn into a rabid extremist over the description of a children’s bike? Emily Writes looks at Facebook comments so you don’t have to.You’ve been there, I know it. You’re scrolling along, trying to avoid QAnon conspiracy theories and Trump apocalypse memes when a story catches your eye. ...
Joe Biden is now the President of the United States and many people across America and throughout the world will consequently be breathing more easily. But while the erratic, unpredictable and irresponsible years of the Trump Presidency may be over, ...
Tough border testing for New Zealand honey imports to Japan is re-igniting the conversation about the use of the weed killer glypohsate in New Zealand. ...
The Taxpayers Union should be aware of the law and of the history of ACC. The ACC is a legal system introduced in 1974 to replace the common law right of accident victims to sue for damages for personal injury sustained as a result of negligence ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Denis Muller, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Advancing Journalism, University of Melbourne Terrorism, political extremism, Donald Trump, social media and the phenomenon of “cancel culture” are confronting journalists with a range of agonising free-speech dilemmas to which there are no easy answers. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Associate Professor of the Sydney Pharmacy School, University of Sydney You’ve just come from your monthly GP appointment with a new script for your ongoing medical condition. But your local pharmacy is out of stock of your usual medicine. Your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deanna D’Alessandro, Professor & ARC Future Fellow, University of Sydney On Wednesday this week, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was measured at at 415 parts per million (ppm). The level is the highest in human history, and is growing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Renwick, Professor, Physical Geography (climate science), Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington It might be summer in New Zealand but we’re in for some wild weather this week with forecasts of heavy wind and rain, and a plunge in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Zareh Ghazarian, Senior Lecturer, School of Social Sciences, Monash University Despite many young Australians having a deep interest in political issues, most teenagers have a limited understanding about their nation’s democratic system. Results from the 2019 National Assessment Program – Civics and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle O’Shea, Senior Lecturer, School of Business, Western Sydney University Last week, the McIver’s Ladies Baths in Sydney came under fire for their (since removed) policy stating “only transgender women who’ve undergone a gender reassignment surgery are allowed entry”. The policy was ...
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50%, or 5/10 headlines topping NZH website today have a dollar sign in them.
40%, or 4/10 mention ‘celebrities’.
NZH, complete and utter shite.
Too true!! WTB
Oh God don’t morph into Paul please!!!!
LOL. Who is Paul, is he handsome and witty?
More recently known as Ed, and probably even more recently (and briefly) known as Jinx. Definitely not witty, in fact completely devoid of any detectable humour whatsoever.
OK. That’s not me. I feel very strongly about comedy. I even got arrested once trying to smuggle comedy into Germany.
That sounds like one of the very best conversation ice breakers ever
Maybe you could try it on Jude?
How is the Judith campaign? We’re cheering for you.
He boycotted the herald and many other things but always new what was on the front page and screeched regularly about it. . Must have been telepathic.
Pseudo-pseudo majorly concentrated on funnelling the USA and world disasters to us. I wondered why he seemed stuck in a rut, but after WtB’s count of its headline groupings, if he looked at the Herlad that would have been predictable.
Just one word of amelioration about the Herald – it does produce some good factual stuff; we aren’t seeing it become the National Enquirer yet.
I believe he boycotted the paper version. Looking at the front page for free to see what topics they were covering was a very smart move by Ed.
WtB
Lol
A good rejoinder and sets a high bar for the rest of us.
NZH New Zealand’s best fush and chip wrapping paper. it is full of RWNJ B/S IMHO
NZH is committed to the Truth so they say, and Read it and Believe it. Thanks granny, Who would not agree to that. (sarc) .
Thank you WtB. You remind me so much of Ed, thank you. We were so fortunate to be graced with his presence here.
and RNZ this morning:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384585/parents-sending-unimmunised-children-to-school-despite-warnings
Media sending out unhelpful ‘news’ despite 110,000 children dying annually from now preventable disease!
Don’t the anti-vaxxers have questions to answer over this outbreak?
What do they have to say, all those strident opinionsters who for so long harangued others for vaccinating?? Why have they all gone quiet?
What do they say to the outbreak? Surely there are a few anti-vaxxers around these here parts …. come in anti-vaxxers … what say thee
Yes but the rates of Autism are plummeting /sarc
,,,, and Gossie measles are going through the roof another National Party outcome result ?
Eh???? Why are you pinning this on National? In case you missed it, they haven’t been in power for well over a year.
Goss you are are denier of the truth we have had 9 years under the Natzi’s of bleeding our Health System dry IMHO
Hmmmm…in these times, where even expressing an interest into thoroughly investigating all aspects of what are now considered conventional practices (be it vaccination, fluoridation of public water supplies, widespread 1080 use, widespread agrichemical use etc) is going to attract a shit tonne of ‘strident’ pro-ers tearing one to bits and accusing the ‘antis’ of being the cause of all the worlds problems…is it any reason your so called ‘anti – vaxxers’ are keeping a low profile?
Judging by the comments sections of msm articles about all of the above issues…it is the ‘pro’ lobby dishing out the bulk of the shit in a ‘strident’ manner
So. Being a person who was raised to make my own inquiries I’ve gone to the source, so to speak, and downloaded the current Immunisation Handbook from the that august institution the Ministry of Health.
http://www.moh.govt.nz/notebook/nbbooks.nsf/0/5B75258BCFDED7CACC257CF4007CE5B8/$file/immunisation-handbook-may14-v2.pdf a mere 670 pages of everything you didn’t know you needed to know about this very important issue.
The Disclaimer, though, kinda made my eyebrows rise….
“Disclaimer
This publication, which has been prepared for, and is published by, the Ministry of Health, is for the assistance of those involved in providing immunisation services in New Zealand.
While the information and advice included in this publication are believed to be correct, no liability is accepted for any incorrect statement or advice.
No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?
Those sort of publications always have that sort of warning.
There are people who simply cannot be given immunizations. There is apparently at least one child in this category at the Christchurch school. Quite why that is so I don’t know.
Anybody reading this publication you have is merely being told to consider the individual health situation of the person concerned before going ahead with the injection.
“No person proposing to administer a vaccine to any other person should rely on the advice given in this publication without first exercising his or her professional judgement as to the appropriateness of administering that vaccine to another person.”
Confidence, much?”
Yes absolutely, this is standard risk management by the MoH, no different from the provision of any medication or medical procedure to a patient. Benefits must out weigh risks…do no harm etc etc
yes. The harm from not immunizing only eventuate if they loudly declare how they are justified they are not to, and enough of the herd follow their lead. It’s like they want to kill lots of people and get a egotistical high of the higher ground.
The Min of Health is just protecting itself from possible expensive legal claims that people who have endless negative cautions, and a positive desire for litigation, are adding to the maelstrom of matters to fear and defend oneself from.
Have only just caught up on this thread Rosemary. Thanks for taking the time to try and take the heat out of the discussion.
I don’t agree with any premise that mandates compulsory medication.
I’m surprised that so many progressives become authoritarian so easily.
“I’m surprised that so many progressives become authoritarian so easily.”
Exactly the concern expressed five minutes ago by a family member…and its not just over this issue.
I find it quite scary, and deeply saddening.
I read some of Linus Pauling’s work on Vitamin C, and remember an article about a vaccination programme in Australia on aboriginal children.
A doctor working with the children, advocated for the administration of Vitamin C before any of the children were vaccinated. He theorised that their diet did not provide their immune system with the ability to respond to the vaccinations as expected. Ridiculed for this procedure, when he left his post the fatality rate for immunised children rose as high as 50% in the Northern Territories. And this was in the 70’s.
A quick google comes up with an article relating to this.
There is a long and terrible history of forced medication or medical intervention. Measles seems to be a very low bar to call for compulsory vaccination.
Many people who have had iatrogenic experiences, don’t have the blind faith in medical institutions and decision making that is required for such clear non-questioning compliance.
Wouldn’t you say that many on this site are authoritarian in their views with regards to the action required to address climate change? And rightly so. Evidence suggests action is required on climate change.
When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe, then we have a right to be “authoritarian” in those views, and we must always call out those who choose to ignore the evidence. Vaccinate your kids, or stay out of our schools. The exception obviously being those who cannot vaccinate based on medical professional opinion – which is exactly why the rest of us need to vaccinate – to keep those who cannot vaccinate, safe!
“When the evidence overwhelmingly supports the case that vaccines work, and they keep the community safe,..”
Possibly the most recent evidence that that statement is false…
” In spite of protecting against the diseases, DTP-vaccinated children had fivefold higher mortality than children who didn’t receive the vaccine.
We have repeated this finding many times. Protection against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis seems to come at a very high price: increased risk of dying from other infections, such as respiratory infections, particularly for females. Translated into absolute numbers, the results indicate that the use of DTP vaccine in sub-Saharan Africa may cost tens of thousands of female lives every year. ”
The researcher is not saying all vaccines are bad and is not saying that all non live vaccines should be banned. She IS saying there is a very, very real problem with the order in which vaccines are given. She IS saying (well, implying) that because the whole discussion around vaccinations has become so polarised, these vital research findings are very likely to be lost in a(nother) shitstorm of extremist rage.
But. Whatever. I never cease to be awestruck at the absolute, blind commitment of some on these pages to a particular point of view, regardless of any information that might come their way that ordinarily would make a person have a further wee think.
Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.
It would have been more convincing if you had provided a link to that source before railing against people not reading it.
“Another frustration is that many here seem almost incapable of actually reading an article or paper all the way through…yet still feel they have the authority to comment, and worse, dismiss it.’
Case proven. How about, when you dive into an ongoing conversation, you actually backtrack and actually check out the links?
Or, I can just dish it up to you again….because information is power and all that…..
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
Sigh
Protecting children’s health is extremism? Funny old world.
“Protecting children’s health is extremism? Funny old world.”
Of course not, silly! 🙂
Mandatory, forced medical treatment that in far too many cases causes harm or even death to children should be questioned, no?
This is not extremism… but it is treated as if it is.
How many deaths have been avoided over the last few decades due to the vaccines? I would hazard a guess that this far outweighs the risks. It is the risks that you seem so fixated on, even if the evidence suggests the benefit to society outweighs these risks. You are looking for a perfect solution to eradicating these illnesses – I’m sorry, but there will never be one. But to expose the vast majority of the population to these illnesses based on a low level of risk from vaccination would be absurd. I’ll stop arguing at this point – as pro-plague people are extremely painful to argue with.
I would consider myself very concerned about climate change, and an advocate for effective changes, information sharing and planned transition. My personal individual choices reflect that as well as my attendance at a couple of select committee hearings and protests, and my commitment to submitting to government when possible.
Yet, I believe an authoritarian approach is one that treats people like children and dismisses any questions or concerns. Ultimately, it creates division and builds resistance to change. It may be the choice of the frustrated – and satisfy in the short term – but in the long term it takes greater energy to sustain and often results in significant pushback.
I prefer the term “pro-plague” to “anti-vax”
One of the few occasions I fully agree with Duncan Garner:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/duncan-garner-anti-vax-murderers-shouldn-t-get-access-to-the-welfare-system.html
Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.
There’s an Aussie woman on her way to NZ to spread her brand of anti-vaxxer poison. She should be banned from entering the country on the grounds she represents a danger to the community at large. In this case I strongly suspect she’s a con artist making a lot of money out of the anti-vaccine campaign.
Perhaps we could follow the example of the Italian Government.
From an Economist daily newsletter I get.
“Italian children can now be turned away from school unless there is proof they have been properly vaccinated. Parents of unvaccinated children aged between six and 16 can also be fined up to €500 ($565). Lorenzin law, introduced following a rise in measles cases, requires immunisation against a number of illnesses including chickenpox, polio, measles, mumps and rubella.”
Come on “Dr” Clark.
Bring this in here.
I would support such a law being introduced here.
Imo, the health and lives of children in particular trumps any freedom of speech concerns.
From what level of understanding would you support such a law, Anne?
That you endorse hate speech views such as garners on this subject signals your understanding of vaccine science is literally zero…
If you actually cared about children, you might take the time to spend learning and undstanding more about the subject…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
Or are you comfortable to disregard the body of evidence?
If you would like a discussion, and some links, I can share you many (to peer reviewed research)…
Do it for the children, Anne…you say you care about them…
The global researched and archives issues relating to vaccine science (which is the anti-science) people like to project onto other groups…is building daily in support of maimed, damaged and killed children, Anne…
If I read you correctly then that is one of the most obnoxious pieces of crap I have ever encountered on the subject. It serves to highlight the necessity for a law to prevent that kind of hair-brained garbage from being advocated in public places.
And Nigel Latta expressed the same views as mine on Seven Sharp tonight except in a rather more diplomatic fashion. (Not online yet)
Btw, I was professionally trained in both the physical and psychological health and well being of children.
Anne. Please read/watch the article One Two linked to ….
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
Precis….live vaccines good and can have health benefits beyond the target disease. Dead vaccines….not so good…in fact bad in far too many cases…especially for girls.
Very simple precis, and I sincerely hope it gets your attention.
Live vaccines priming the immune system. Absolutely no surprise there though it is a wow moment for me that the coverage is more comprehensive than the targeted disease. And this was found for multiple live vaccines. Wow.
I kinda see why doctors prefer the dead vaccine and why mothers do not. But patient harm in any form needs to be put under serious scrutiny. Is there any test for a pre-condition of immuno-compromised people?
I geek out on tweaking plant immunity with various microbes and fungi, viruses are over my pay grade – we did have a relatively
comprehensive look at HIV in postgrad. Damn thing evolves…
Our tutor was one of the ones that died on flight MH17. Damn shame that was.
About a century ago there was a woman helping Australian Aborigines at a time when polio was being vaccinated agai
Sister Kenny devised a way of treating polio victims that had better outcomes than previously. One of her ideas was that the vaccine shouldn’t be given to someone at a time when they had a cold, or their health was compromised. I think that would fit in with your idea of having a pre-condition that would affect immune systems.
She also did a lot of work keeping their limbs moving so that they didn’t end up as permanently disabled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Kenny
And yet you’ve offered zero, nothing to counter the comment I made…but go right ahead…you believe it’s “obnoxious crap and hairbrained garbage”… you must be able to back it up…
Surely if you’re supporting punitive laws, endorsing violent hate speech , you must have legitimate counters to my comment, Anne….you must have a level of understanding of the core issues…the research…the harm…the damaged and dead…
Surely, Anne…you must have…or how can you offer written support of such laws coming to Nz…Endorse censorship…you must have knowlegde and understanding to counter…
I’m offering you the opportunity for an open discussion…only you on this subject Anne…because you supported the hate speech I’m calling out…
I also believe you are a higher calibre of commentator on balance, here in comparison to others engaged in this discussion…
With respect…if your training was from your understood generation (based on your comments)…then it will be terribly outdated and in need of a refresh…
So go right ahead, Anne…provide substance of your position to endorse hate speech against children and parents…censorship and punitive legislations…
Your link…your words…your support…back it up…
Here we go… Nigel Latta talking about vaccines on Seven Sharp. Scroll past the weather and it’s the first item. Listen to Hillary and Jeremy after the end of the interview following the brief ASB ad. They make a couple of pertinent points couched in humour:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-stream-seven-sharp-2018?variant=tb_v_1
I’ll go with Nigel Latta and the medical authorities every time.
Nigel Latta. He’s a bit akin to a much loved teddy bear isn’t he? Hauled out, dusted off and cuddled so we can all feel comforted and secure. I had no idea he was an expert on immunology and vaccination science.
On second thoughts Anne…DON’T WATCH/READ WHAT DR BENN HAS TO SAY.
Fair enough Anne. That is the level of propaganda which you’re amenable to…that your level of understanding is derived from…
You’re not alone in being fooled…there are too many ‘fools’ …on either side of the discussion…including the paid ones in the link you posted…
You see Anne, it is not a binary discussion…despite your preferred propaganda channels imploring you to believe…it is a deeply nuanced, complicated set of (actual science) , not vaccine science and its pseudoscience relative, psychology…components…deeply personal…
You, and each and every individual…paid or unpaid who share…or pretend to share the same views…are already relegated to the sidelines of the discussion…while the minority goes about what the minorities through history…always go about doing…
That you so callously disregard the global scientific community’s body of archived research, performed and disseminated to those adults and parents who take full responsibility for their offspring, by spending time and energy learning and understanding that research…
Says that you Anne, have chosen…at this point in your life…not to grow…not to further your knowledge…not to gain understanding as to why it is you…and the ‘authorities’ you refer…who will continue to lose ground…who will continue to lack understanding about why…the vaccine science industry…has lost its position…
And you will continue to blame those who do know…who did the research…the science…who suffered the damage and loss…who shared the actual science with other adults from all professional and non professional backgrounds…to decide for themselves, the best choices to make for their children…
While yourself…and all those whose views you relate to…will continue to belittle and berate those…who took the time to grow and expand themselves…for the good of others…
And you and your ilk…will believe it is ‘others’…who are stupid…who are gullible…who are uneducated absorbers of fake news on the internet….
But that, Anne…is already the projections of those who have been sidelined…because real science…is never settled…
It had already moved on from what you ‘believed’ it to be…decades ago…and you’re not interested in updating yourself…
Thanks One Two. It’s reassuring to know that you’ve done all the research because you care so much… and still come up with the wrong outcomes.
Vaccines, amongst other public health methods, have lifted health quality outcomes like being free from communicable diseases and living longer to heights almost unimaginable 100 years ago.
But of course some stupid fuckwits on the internet know better than 97% of health professionals because they’ve done some reading. This is the magic number of scientists that confirm global warming is correct. So how can the same proportion of doctors be so wildly incorrect in your opinion?
Personally I don’t want my kids going to schools with other parents children who are trying to be 3rd world worriers. Vaccines should be legally mandated or no entry into public schools.
You must have paused for a moment to consider what drove your thoughts on legalizing mandatory vaccination…
Can you frame the basis of your thinking in terms of, medical, scientific, legal and ethical constructs…
I’m certainly interested to hear the level of though behind the two sentences…
You’re recently commenting here…which is why I’m taking the time to ask you…
The anti-vaccination movement is, by and large, a first world thing.
Take the polio vaccine, afaik, the oral polio vaccine, which has its risks. And is basically something given in (sometimes literal) shitholes where the disease is rampant anyway.
Vaccines are by definition of “reality” not 100% risk free: You can be allergic and only find out when you go into a seizure. It’s just that those situations are rare.
As in, between 1:1.000.000-2.000.000.
The risks of dying to something like measles, is even less with proper healthcare something like 1:1000, are you young, are you not that strong, you get pneumonia, and sometimes that’s it right there. It happens. In less priviliged societies? It kills.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
As long as the people involved clearly understand the risks of vaccines and why it’s so important to society to be able to control communicable disease down to manageable levels then I don’t see any reason why people can’t live and let live.
Only a single comment to respond with…covers the largest flaw in your core of your thinking…
* vaccinated communities have been proven to spread the same diseases (and mutated versions of) which are supposedly ‘vaccine preventable’ by injecting the vaccines(s) which manufactures, lawmakers and doctors, recommend,advise/force people to inject…to prevent from catching the [virus]…
Get better informed…no excuses for that level of missing data…
I’ll not be responding to you further on this subject…
Bulshit detector: 1+2=4
Translation: Before vaccines the death rate was 100%.
I do not like you using the words ‘hate’ speech One Two. It seems to me that they are being thrown around far too frequently.
Hate speech encourages KKK to go and hang African Americans, and to burn down their churches.
It shouldn’t be used about people who have a different point of view and argue strongly for it. Biased they are, foolish and bigoted perhaps, but hate is another bloody four letter word like rape. There seems little respect for language and meaning when such words are used freely.
Gw…you respond to enough of my comments to have realized that I do not use certain terminologies or insults…or hyperboles…
I call that link out for precisely what it is in this case..
Agree in principle with your view on overused terminology…
Which is why I reserve use of terminologies for genuine and appropriate use of them…
Such as in response to Annes link…and comments of support for the content of garners *.*
One Two: most of us accept that we live in an imperfect world where there are very few perfect solutions. Most of the time we are forced to choose the lesser of two evils, and I think this is one of them.
If all the anti-vax arguments are true, so be it – vaccination is an evil.
But I for one would much rather have had the risky vaccinations I have had, than suffer from just one of the nasty diseases I have been protected against.
For the vast majority of people the nasty diseases have a far more devastating effect than the vaccinations do , and for those who suffer from vaccinations, maybe we have to wait for medical science to help them as well..
Lesser of two evils.
If vaccinations had ever looked like being worse than the disease avoided, a huge majority would have become anti-vax.
Are you now going to tell me I am an innocent victim of propaganda?
In Vino, your comment indicates you’re ok with people making choices with regards to bodily autonomy, and forced medication…that position alone, is a respectable one to hold…
There are many points in your comment which I could address and which I could show are logically incorrect…but they are your perspective and your decisions to take for yourself…
What I would suggest is that no-one who involves themselves in having an opinion on vaccines, should allow themselves or others, the disservice of complacancy , laziness or ignorance by believing what they are told…or believing what they ‘know’…
Western medicine (the corporate consensus variety) has seemingly no interest in accepting why it might be an evolutionary necessity for humans to get sick and self heal, thus gaining genuine full cell immunity through a powered up immune system…it is what our bodies have been doing since day one…our immune systems are amazing just as they are…
Pure hubris to think that short circuiting and tricking the immune system with chemicals is not leading to human beings becoming sicker, with more illness and diseases in younger cohorts than modern medicine provides any answer for other than…more drugs/vaccines and toxic allopathic protocols…
Our spieces has evolved symbiotically over [forever number] of years with the very microbes we believe we have somehow mastered, and can control…and should eradicate from the environment…they can’t be…not by human beings…
To your final question…innocent victim…no not at all…just someone whose comment also indicates they need to invest more time into learning about the flaws in vaccine science…which actual science has now moved to unreservedly, exposing…
So much research and scholarly material available which could assist with helping people to make more well informed decisions for their own well being, and that of their loves ones…
One Two
I have kept an open mind as to your comments and the veracity of the beliefs, information, references etc. But the longer they are and the more you use emotional language, the more wary I become of your statements.
For once Sam comes up with something informative. And it is a serious matter which he takes through giving freedom to anti-vaxers with a waiver of treatment for their children. And a case to answer of involuntary manslaughter when they cause deaths.
The simplest and most direct means of discrediting the antivax movement is to give them what they want. Give them an exemption form to sign.
With the caveat that any offspring of their who falls ill and transmits the illness to another who latter on dies from something that could have been prevented with vaccination will be considered a sign of manslaughter and the full weight of the law will act on them in that regard.
Then he makes the point about plagues that they cause 100% deaths. Which may not apply to measles, instead there will be numerous cases of people being debilitated badly, blind etc.
Measles infections can harm the front or back of the eye, possibly causing vision loss or blindness. Though measles is just re-emerging as a threat in developed countries, the disease has long been a leading cause of childhood blindness worldwide.Mar 5, 2015
(Some American Academy that blacks out everything over cookies)
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
One in ten will get ear infections and some hearing loss also.
In her book about her travels in early New Zealand colonial times, Florence Harsant travelled in remote areas where Maori had been struck down by measles. She was horrified to find whole households laid low, parents unable to care for children, and no-one in the village with medicines and no help from authorities.
She had to plan to escape herself from a travel limitation set up by either Maori or surrounding colonists, and advised health authorities herself.
As Sam says, this is a first world thing, with emotional people who haven’t been taught decision making, analysing risk, ratios and percentages and means and averages etc. And in life there is risk, and that we are surrounded by unsterile air, and constantly ignoring advice to wash hands after going to the toilet etc. – noticed in public places.
There are irresponsible people, there are ones who despise western medicine, there are others who are fatalists. One woman I knew of was a Pacific Islander of determined decisions, and she would not allow her teenager to use asthma aids, such as an inhaler. When her son died from an asthma sttack, the authorities did not know what to do for the best. I don’t know whether she was even charged with neglect. Some parents can not be reasoned with. Public health is set up to assist us, and has, but they must be watchful to keep up quality. Whatever they do, though there will be criticism – too early, too late, wrong type, over-spent on the wrong virus line.
Gw..and with respect…you’re clearly underinformed on this subject…take responsibility for your weariness…do not transfer your shortcomings onto my commentary…
Others have tried a similar tactic in the 5G discussion…it is a tactic of the disingenuous …
I addressed the logical failings in the core premise of Sams proposal…
Why are you ignoring my response to Sam, regarding known and proven vaccine failure rates?
That is…the spread of the very disease individuls were vaccinated against catching..
Messaging with people who do even tale the time to invest in learning vaccine 101 is not productive…
No emotions Gw…you’ve read me incorrectly…and you’ve written a novel…
Edit. You should stop using derogatory terms…I believe you are above such use of anti-v***
Alwyn for once I entirely agree with your suggestion. Producing proof of vaccination is a good idea which would save lives and prevent illness. I had polio, measles 2 kinds, mumps and chickenpox. There is no advantage having these diseases and every advantage not to.
Join the club. So did I.
Amazing that any of us made it to adulthood isn’t it?
I cannot understand anyone who refuses, or is simply to lazy, to vaccinate their children.
Some still believe that disgraced English doctor with his b*s about a connection between the MMR vaccination and Autism. Now there is a dreadful example of a human being.
One of the things the pro-disease crowd sometimes go on about is Big Pharma make money from vaccines so that inherently makes them suspicious.
Yet that fucking fraud Wakefield was busily patenting his single disease vaccines in order to line his pockets and consulting on lawsuits in order to line his pockets all the while he was fabricating his data that happened to support those activities. But somehow, he’s a hero to the pro-diseasers?
Wakefield. Yes now I remember the name. When I read about his activities at the time he was kicked out of the profession I got so mad at his behaviour I never wanted to read anything more about him, EVER.
When I wrote the comment here I couldn’t recall his name but I refused to google the story because it would simply make me so mad about that vile person again. So rather than do so about all I could think of to say was ” that disgraced English doctor”.
The number of kids who must have suffered so he could attempt to line his pockets.
Whooping cough was best…after the awful coughing the rest of 6 weeks off school to ride bikes up and down SH1 (wartime and almost no traffic. Seriously, they were all dangerous. Think the first immunisations were for diphtheria early 1940’s, done at school.
And to think Heather, our Mum’s put us into contact with other children who had contracted these diseases because it was believed we were better off catching them as children. That is, with the exception of polio and whooping cough.
I remember the school shutdown for some six to eight weeks during the polio epidemic of the early 1950s. As an extra precaution we weren’t supposed to play with one another, so we spent all day whizzing past each other on our scooters. Yeah… there were some bruised and bleeding knees came out of that one. 🙂
The schools closed in 1947 when I caught polio in the last great epidemic, and again in 1953 when June Opie got polio from the failed vaccine, Salk? and spent the rest of her life in an iron lung.
The three drops on the tongue polio vaccine was available in my first year of teaching in 1962.
FYI….
you’re welcome. 🙂
Thanks Rosemary…for sharing that link…
Another doc…if you’re so inclined…
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/whitepapers/ICAN%20Reply%20-%20December%2031%2C%202018.pdf
June Opie – a great mind who rose above her trials.
https://corpus.nz/inert-body-alive-page-june-opies/
http://pukeariki.com/Learning-Research/Taranaki-Research-Centre/Taranaki-Stories/Taranaki-Story/id/570/title/over-my-dead-body-the-june-opie-story
When June Opie sailed from New Zealand to England in 1957, she was described by her fellow passengers as ‘aggressively healthy’. Yet within a month she was lying in an iron lung, paralysed except for a single eye-lid. Undaunted, she began her slow recovery from polio, fighting to move just the little finger of one hand.
And I mention Alan Marshall Australian another great mind who triumphed over his polio disability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Marshall_(Australian_author)
I think in Canterbury, right now, that measure should be introduced using the Health Act powers.
“Imo, these anti-vaxxers come from the same school of thought as the anti-fluoride crowd and the Climate Change deniers. They never read any of the reputable information available. Instead they follow fringe nutcases who have no scientific or medical credibility whatsoever. Nutbars paying homage to nutbars.”
Well that’s part of the problem right there, and I referred to this at 2.1.2 .
I struggle with the need to fluoridate all drinking water. To me it makes no sense when tooth decay is not caused by lack of fluoride.
Yes I do agree our climate is changing, the sun is more intense than 20 or even 10 years ago, and that we definitely need to urgently seek and implement ways to try and mitigate the effects. (Although I fear rampant capitalism will see our ultimate doom as a species.)
I exercised discretion when it came to my children’s immuisations, which is not to say I didn’t have them vaccinated. As I mentioned a few days ago….MMR was very new and there were anecdotal cases of serious adverse events (NOT autism…!!!) which made a few folk understandably nervous. Very frustrating that with the release of MMR the old single measles jab became unavailable…even if we were willing to pay. When the Hep B vaccine was being given to newborns there were concerns from some groups. I asked a GP if my 18 month old needed the jab, and was told there was no way he was going to catch Hep B…he wasn’t in the at- risk group. So why the mass vaccination program if the disease is a risk for only specific sections of the population?
I’ve have tried (and failed) to find the official register of significant averse effects from vaccinations…..where is it?
Calling people ‘nutbars’ and ‘murderers’ for vaccine hesitancy is merely going to widen the divide.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
And as Nikki Turner from the mysterious (and in part funded by the drug companies http://www.immune.org.nz/sites/default/files/IMACSponsorweblistAugust2018.pdf) said…”I don’t think we should ignore the anti-vaccination lobby but I think we should put it into context.
“It is a very small percentage of the New Zealand population.
“We need to understand it and respond to it, and definitely put more resources and thinking into it, but it is a very small part of why we are not getting high immunisation coverage rates.”
Dr Turner said there were other problems with delivering immunisations, beyond what she called vaccine hesitancy, and New Zealand would be better off dealing with those.”
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384112/hospital-bosses-want-anti-anti-vax-campaign
Now it would be manifestly unreasonable to expect a shock jock media personality to actually take a calming breath or two and actually do some proper research…or even check with the head honcho from IMAC before launching into their lynch mob rousing speech…but I’d expect most of the commentators here to at least keep a tiny portion of their minds ajar.
Surely respect and open communication would be more productive when engaging with the small percentage of parents who decide to eschew all vaccines for their children?
I would have agreed with you say… 20 years ago but not any more.
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers. Respect and open conversations do not work with many of these people. Their anti-ness has become ideological to the point of religious fervour. To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.
It is time for them to be called out for what they are – fools. Fools who are putting their children’s – and other people’s children’s – health and a viable future in serious jeopardy.
“To begin with, they are the ones who refuse to communicate respectfully with the actual experts and denigrate them to the point of defamation and slander.”
Is it possible for you to provide a link or two as examples of this? I am seriously interested.
And again….according to the IMAC chief, so called ‘anti-vaxxers’ are a very small part of why we are not getting high rates of immunisation coverage.
So…it may very well be the the anti- vax brigade are as angry/shouty/hate- speechy as the pro- vax lynch mob….but they are not having the effect on immunisation rates you seem to think they are.
According to the experts. 😉
Anne @ 2.1.4.2.1
I’m talking generally and not just about anti-vaxxers.
This is worth a read regarding public uptake of vaccination in Europe if you have the time.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-018-5103-8
The attacks are becoming more desperate and transparent by the day…
Annes endorsememt of garners hate speech is the lowest of todays misinformed and damagingly ignorant statements…
https://theconversation.com/vaccines-have-health-effects-beyond-protecting-against-target-diseases-106383
The article is one of the most balanced I’ve read in ‘mainstream’, and the author contributes to what is an insightful comments section…
Warning:
For the misinformed, underinformed and ignorant, this article could cause some problems…to what you ‘think you know’…
Well. One Two…thanks for just about ruining our mince and noodle dinner.
What a powerful piece of work, and for those who can spare the time the Ted Talk is totally engrossing.
This should be turning the whole vaccine debate inside out…but as the Doctor Benn says…the whole issue has become so polarised that each side will try and use the findings to give credibility to their stubbornly held point of view. And the very, very real potential benefits of accepting the findings and changing the way we vaccinate will be lost.
Thank you One Two for posting this.
No worries, Rosemary…It was really for people such as yourself…it’s not my role to change anyone’s views…that’s an individual choice to expand…
I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…
Some of the comment links are also probable triggers for folks here…
For the time being I’ll limit any linking, as per my comments a few days ago…I’m a long way over this discussion…except to call out those who publish and/or endorse violent hate speech…
The progapanda levels are a signal the establishment has completely lost the decades long control, and they know it…
Real science , research, knowledge and thinking has moved on…people are no longer kept in the dark (unless they willingly choose to be)…and in a few years from now…it will all be over…
Have a good evening…hope you recoverd the meal alright…
‘I was highly surprised such an article was published on TC…and the comments section allowed to continue on…”
I had to check with a scientist the credibility of The Conversation (because I have trust issues ) and was assured that it was ‘… usually OK…much better than the Guardian’.
The comments section I’m going to read right now.
Passionate commitment to one’s point of view/beliefs/ideology is all very well if tempered with an open mind and respect for the commitment of the opposition…blind adherence and all that.
How many more deaths before we can be brave enough to put our dogmatism aside?
Thanks again.
On the subject of vaccination , TC is about as low level as it gets. If you have time…brave some of the other articles over the years…it’s likely that you will pick up the themes and discourse TC publishes…
Often comment sections would mirror the majority on todays thread, here, and then the comments gets closed off…as soon as a counter or two is visible…it is a consistent form of censorship…perhaps due to lack of mods available…but it is an observable occurrence…
I would say that spending prescious time reading anti-scientific and outdated articles about research which only represents established industry position…can be unhealthy…but you’re definitely up to it should you choose to…there is years worth of it on TC…
The piece I linked to, I’ve had to read multiple times in appreciation of the author and her professional yet honest demeanour within the article, as well as her responses in the comments section…gold nuggets can be found…
I’ve been reading through the linked material in comments as some of the linked material and commentary was new for me…I will also watch the ted talk…perhaps TC should leave comments sections open on this subject…
To your question. Many, many magnitudes more than the total global deaths from measles in developed nations…over the past 50 years…
Be well…and you’re welcome…
Thanks for the read. AFAIK the live polio vaccine, which was on the immunisation schedule many years ago was changed to the dead polio vaccine after a couple of incidents where mothers got the disease after immunising their children.
I had read many years ago about the benefits of live vaccines, but can’t remember where. Also, about the difference in immunity robustness from people who had the vaccine compared to those who had recovered from the disease. The immune system was much stronger, and the article/paper was discussing the possibility of the body responding with changes to the respiratory system, or mucous membranes, that is not achieved with vaccinations. Sorry, I can’t remember more, it was a while ago.
Hi Molly…
Salk was to have said the live polio vaccine was responsible for +/- 100% of polio…it was replaced but the damage was done…
The Cutter Incident
With regards to live vaccines and the article in particular…there is also large archives of research of contraindictions resulting from live vaccines, the manufaturing, storage and transport problems including the adjuvants required (similar to attenuated vaccines) which are also problematic…
I linked the article as it is one of the most balanced I’ve encountered in a mainstream web site…and can be understood and progressed from by those who are interested…
Was a good read One Two, and worth the couple of minutes it took to do so.
My children are grown so the vaccination issue is one I don’t look into much anymore. But I am always surprised by the vitriol expressed on this issue, and the calls for mandatory medication. This could be a result of the medium that allows for collective censure, which brings out the bully in all of us, but I can’t remember it being that divisive twenty years ago.
Thanks, Molly…
It certainly is testament to the psychological abuse pushed repeatedly at the public, setting parents against eachother, children against eachother as well as children against their own parents…
It has been ramped up to levels which have essentially exposed vaccine science for what it always was…something masquerading as science…there is a word for that…
The aggressive campaigns through corporate media leading to poorly advised and punitive legislations, have created the situation you describe…
Hostile is an understatement…all aimed in the the wrong directions…
Couldn’t help myself and downloaded Bandim’s pdf. Already at Page 30.
Got to drop off my son at 5.30 am, so should really put it down…
Yes I’ve been working through badim also…
But have put it down in favour of another pdf
Please let me know if the link works…Rosemary may also be interested…link should go direct to document download…
https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/whitepapers/ICAN%20Reply%20-%20December%2031%2C%202018.pdf
Your link cites a study suggesting that, while the DTAP vaccine protects against infection from those three bacteria, it makes children more susceptible to dying from other causes. If this were true, it would certainly concerning however..
It was published in a rather obscure journal. This by itself doesn’t give us an indicator of the quality of the paper, but if we really had data that showed us there was a concern with the DTaP vaccine, an important part of the childhood vaccine schedules worldwide, it should have been published in a higher quality journal.
The study looks at the mortality rate after the vaccine used at that time, which contained the whole-cell version of pertussis. That vaccine was pulled from the market and replaced with an acellular version. Reasons for changing the vaccines are complex, but it was partially because of the higher rate of minor adverse events with the wP version of the pertussis vaccine. There is no evidence I am aware of that the wP version caused more deaths than the current aP version.
The study only examined 1057 children, which is a tiny number in any epidemiological study that tries to compare one group to another to examine a potential effect. Many case control studies that examine vaccine effects (either effectiveness or adverse events) use 100,000 to several million patients and there’s certainly far more data on this vaccine available now at medicine regulators around the world.
The number of deaths that was used in the study was tiny, sometimes only 1 death in a population group (like female unvaccinated children). Because they used such small numbers, unintentional bias could occur.
The deaths were not categorized and may have absolutely nothing to do with vaccination. With such small numbers analyzed, it’s possible that unrelated mortality could have given results that could change dramatically with just a handful of unrelated deaths.
Ironically, the study showed that there was decreased mortality with the children who received oral polio vaccine (separate from the DTP vaccine). If we accept this statistically suspect small sample as unbiased (which we can’t), the overall results are positive with a full vaccination.
This leads me a critical point in the vaccine debate that those critical of vaccination cherry-pick studies that support beliefs about vaccine safety, the antithesis of real science. If we look at larger studies more broadly, what can we say about the safety profile of the DTaP vaccine?
There’s a Danish study that included over 805,000 children looking at various outcomes to getting multiple antigen vaccines, such as DTP or DTaP, came to this conclusion:
‘… results do not support the hypotheses that multiple-antigen vaccines or aggregated vaccine exposure increase the risk of non-targeted infectious disease hospitalization.”
In a meta-review, considered by many as the pinnacle of high quality scientific research hierarchy, which included over 183,000 participants in 58 different trials, the authors concluded that,
‘..Acellular vaccines have fewer adverse effects than whole-cell vaccines for the primary series as well as for booster doses.’
The authors found no vaccine related mortality for either vaccine, which completely contradicts the belief about the lack of safety of the DTaP vaccine.
Hviid A, Wohlfahrt J, Stellfeld M, Melbye M. Childhood vaccination and nontargeted infectious disease hospitalization. JAMA. 2005 Aug 10;294(6):699-705. PubMed PMID: 16091572.
Mogensen SW, Andersen A, Rodrigues A, Benn CS, Aaby P. The Introduction of Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Oral Polio Vaccine Among Young Infants in an Urban African Community: A Natural Experiment. EBioMedicine. 2017 Mar;17:192-198. doi: 10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.01.041. Epub 2017 Feb 1. PubMed PMID: 28188123; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC5360569.
Zhang L, Prietsch SO, Axelsson I, Halperin SA. Acellular vaccines for preventing whooping cough in children. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2014 Sep 17;(9):CD001478. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD001478.pub6. Review. PubMed
Mullet, good on you for having a genuine go at contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way…
I am responding as a show of appreciation for that comment…
Comments I’ve posted, yesterday and today provide ample starting points for those who are interested and were able to pick up on them…as such I am not going to address the mesh of points you attempted to raise…
Except these few:
* You, nor anyone in the entire human populace is aware of ‘the entire volume of research’ let alone map it all out…so absolutely…you are not aware of ‘evidence’…same applies to any individual or agency who uses that deceptively misleading statement
* Published in a ‘big journal’ is subjective speculation on your part , and your part only. It transparently leads into the next dot points in effort to create a sense of dismissive minimizing of the research team, the report and the findings
* Cherry picking is your projection and does not alter the validity of the findings in the 190 page report, that you’ve actually cherry picked data from in an attempt to further dismiss and minimize the research findings
* The study reported positive and negative outcomes from the research, and you seek to trivialise all findings claiming ‘size bias’ without referencing the duration of the researched study
Ironically, vaccine science and corporate testing protocols and regulatory licensure have achieved approval to market, including recommended schedule vaccines using highly dubious (documented) tactics and inferior ‘research protocols’ from smaller test cohorts alongside truncated , fast tracked timelines
* Danish studies including the link you posted to last week, have a track record of corporate sponsored ‘research’ becoming reference studies of the vaccine science industry, used ad nauseum by vaccine advertising dependant journals and media outlets
It seems you have more to offer the discussion, than the usual remarks and name calling would suggest…
Join the anti-brigade and travel the world! Be like another Jordan Peterson; looking long-suffering and devoting your life to telling other people that what they think is wrong and that you have superior enlightenment; because.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/books/18-02-2019/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fuck-about-jordan-b-peterson/
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Charles Spurgeon
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/
The power and wisdom from a group of women in simpatico can trounce the findings of any scientist/s. (The same goes for men.) – Quote, Me.
Book: The Poisoned Needle
Well, if you come from a broken home with nothing but shitty role models you might understand the attraction of a man who gives you straight up good advice. The demonisation of Peterson, as some of his views are nonsensical, detract from the fact he’s put a lot of people’s lives back on track.
And the left can’t stand it. He doesn’t preach but it’s based in biblical teaching. He explains why. They don’t care. Utterly shitty people protesting just to protest, you find them at every protest, just wankers looking for excitement in their meaningless lives.
Society, instead of learning what they can from all this, taking the good, made blanket statements of condemnation and all we learned is there’s a lot of judgmental assholes out there prepared to lie and distort things to get their column inches.
It’s trendy to hate Peterson, and banal.
Maybe people think the public will think they’re clever if they one up an intellectual.
you need to watch his talks, not listen to the attention clamoring press.
I’m waiting for the first lawsuits by the kids of
anti-vaxxerspro-plaguers (good point JS). Suing their parents after they catch a fully preventable disease because their parents refused to get them vaccinated.It’ll probably be someone like this dude …
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/health/measles-josh-nerius/index.html
… or this one.
https://www.sciencealert.com/oregon-parents-refuse-further-vaccination-after-their-child-nearly-dies-from-tetanus
“110,000 children dying annually from now preventable disease!”
These figures need to be put into context, eg:
Five million children under the age of five, dying from preventable hunger
Yet hunger is not the context here. Because there is other bad shit happening, it does not minimise the stupidity of playing russian roulette with a child’s life.
Yes.
But don’t use random facts without context – unlinked to source – and consider it persuasive argument.
It was a parody of the RNZ headline (a source didn’t go with the style).
It is the most appropriate source for anyone interested in the facts. Someone wih your views ought to know these facts which can then be contrasted with any risk of an adverse effect. Caring and committed child health professionals throughout the world, well appraised with the facts, are entirely convinced by the weight of evidence. Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?
World Health Organisation – not very random.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles
Interesting that you know what my views are – since I haven’t articulated them on this thread…
You have such faith in a medical system and drug clinical trials that allows you to accept all information without question. Some ask questions anyway.
Yes you have – and now you have again.
I have faith in the scientific process that utilises qualified people to continually and robustly investigate and test the basis and foundation of knowledge. I trust the motives of people who care for children and I listen carefully to what they say.
For illustration check out the comprehensive and continually expanding list of studies published on the Immunisation Advisory Centre’s website:
http://www.immune.org.nz/research/publications-and-reports
“Why would you not trust them, but instead trust an anonymous web site spinning crap?”
Which anonymous web site?
Not that difficult to find with help of goggle.
I’d like to give another shoutout to Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage for her massive expansion of the National park estate through the Mohikinui River and catchment.
I would also like to give a great big shoutout to all the activists around and in Forest and Bird who campaigned against that dam, squashed those corporate dogs in Meridian, and ensured this great area remains wild and free forever.
For those of you who missed it on tv news,
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/kahurangi-national-park-expanded-area-half-size-auckland?variant=tb_v_1
It includes about 15km of the Mokihinui riverbed, all of the Mokihinui Forks Ecological Area, a large part of the Lyell Range-Radiant Range conservation area and a small part of what remains of North West Nelson Forest Park, most of which became Kahurangi National Park when it was established in 1996.
The Mokihinui addition to Kahurangi National Park is equivalent in size to Abel Tasman and Paparoa National Parks combined and is twice the size of Egmont National Park.
Kahurangi is the country’s second largest park and with the addition of the Mokihinui land, it will increase in size by 14 per cent to 517,335ha. Fiordland National Park, at more than 1,230,000ha, is the largest national park.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12212130
Can’t be too long before there’s a proposal to unite Kahurangi with Abel Tasman National Parks.
Meantime, this is a fine addition, done under Ministerial powers rather than expending legislative time and political capital.
This is great political work from the Minister.
That is bloody good news. I did a couple of long tramps in the Mokinui area back in the 80’s, and they shine bright in my memory.
“Abel Tasman and Kahurangi national parks are now connected by a 169-hectare block of land purchased by the Department of Conservation.”
https://i.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/96599436/land-corridor-connects-abel-tasman-and-kahurangi-national-parks
Not sure why they need to be joined.
Good to increase the national parks.
Having them joined allows for easy species migration.
The ‘corridor’ effect?
I don’t think so. More to keep humans happy.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/science-and-technical/SR34.pdf
6. PROS AND CONS OF CORRIDORS Noss (1987) provided a list of some potential advantages and disadvantages of ecological corridors. The following is an elaboration of his scheme.
33 6.1 Possible Advantages
…
A quick look at the maps shows that AT and Kahurangi NP’s are already very close together; any corridor between the two lies mainly along a relatively short area on the top of the Takaka Hill limestone area, north of the state highway.
From memory most of this area is pretty undeveloped, marginal farmland or regenerating. There are some private dwellings scattered about in the area, but nothing at any scale.
Surely a formal corridor would be feasible, even if it didn’t have the full formal status of a National Park, along with all the restrictions that would imply. Something more like say a Forest Park that permitted existing activities and dwellings, but protected it from further development?
You’re more familiar with the area than I am, would something like that work?
Yeah protection against development is a good reason to protect.
Great news!! Now, we just need to add the Matiri River Valley to the park on its eastern boundary. Oops too late, construction of the hydro scheme is under way. This was one that got the nod from the John Key government – payback to the Talley family for years of National party support.
Lake Matiri is a wildlife refuge and part of Kahurangi NP, the Matiri River Valley was deliberately excluded due to its power generation potential. Despite significant local opposition, the power scheme was consented quite some years ago. The Talley family chose not to make a start (power prices too low?) and recently sold the consent to Pioneer Generation, Talleys still own the land. DOC could have refused the concession due to lack of required reports etc but didn’t. Pressure from above??
.Well done indeed Eugene Thanks Ad. A good post. I see they are leaving the remains of the monster wasp nest in the tree at Hamurana, for fear of poisoning the stream.
Pest control always has fish hooks, but is worth it.
I know there is an issue of scale…but I have dealt to wasp nests by enclosing said structure in a heavy duty plastic bag, tying off the top and cutting the whole caboodle free from it’s anchor. Bag containing wasp nest can then be further contained until inhabitants discorporate. This can be sped up by freezing. Or chemicals.
Of course…the use of a plastic bag might not be acceptable either….oh, life is getting sooo complicated!
Best wasp nest fun I had was three years ago, 3 metres long underground.
Sourced the two entrances at dusk; a deep crack in the clay.
Mixture of diesel and dishwashing liquid.
Match.
Volcano out both ends.
Shoveled clay over top.
Just awesome fun, and neighbourhood improved.
Woulda been even more exciting if there was another undetected entrance that led under the house. Seen that almost happen, not quite under the house but uncomfortably close…
It was at the edge of the forest so we had hose and filled buckets ready for sparks.
Hah! When a neighbour deployed one of those sonic rodent deterrers, our usual non chemical methods of keeping the rat population down in our chook house failed. (The rats moved to our place.) The rats congregating in broad daylight to give us the single digit salute coincided with the failure of a large batch of very hot chili paste to seal properly. We emptied the contents of the bubbling jars down the most used rat runs…..
Back in the day when one could purchase strings of double happy firecrackers….
Surprised to hear those sonic devices even work!
Most animals ,including dogs react the first time they hear them…then ignore them.
Tell me about it. I was developing the ultimate cat collar that warned birds and lizards but not mammals. Didn’t work…
Cats are apex predators. You may as well just euthanise them if you don’t want them to be apex any more.
Humans are apex predators. But I don’t need to kill for food, and nor do domesticated animals. The problem with cats is not killing for food supply so much, as simply killing for fun.
I often wonder if, at some stage, we’d deliberately culled out the ‘cruel’ cats, we’d have a better breed that only killed when hungry.
I’d agree that humans are at the top of the food chain but as far as an apex predator I’d put bears above us. and cats don’t kill for fun, that’s just the human talking. Cats kill vermin that stray in there territory when they not feeding. Cats are cats. I’d suggest people who don’t really understand cats enough to leave them alone instead of dating bits off them and making them carry around fashion accessories, I’d suggest they get a goldfish.
I’d suggest I’m talking to a goldfish.
Do you talk to goldfish often?
They ‘play’ to keep their skills up. You’d need to somehow make them vegan, which would no longer be a cat as such.
Muscled, black with steel green eye
Swishing through the rye grass
With thoughts of mouse and apple pie
Tail balancing at half-mast
And the mouse police never sleeps
Lying in the cherry tree
Savage bed foot warmer
Of purest feline ancestry
Look out, little furry folk
He’s the all night working cat
Eats but one in every ten
Leaves the others on the mat
And the mouse police never sleeps
Waiting by the cellar door
Window-box town crier
Birth and death registrar
With claws that rake a furrow red
Licensed to mutilate
From warm milk on a lazy day
To dawn patrol on hungry hate
No, the mouse police never sleeps
Climbing on the ivy
Windy roof top weathercock
Warm blooded night on a cold tile
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
The mouse police never sleeps
…
Songwriters: Ian Anderson
Could we develop a family of cats which are really good mice catchers. That would save me putting down poisoned grain and have mousetraps littering the place. I think the parents have to teach the catching skills, so by careful breeding and initiation procedures, they would be very useful cats and not a disdained predator – they could be as valuable as trained sheep dogs.
Dogs have a lineage of pack hunting and scavenging which made them really suseptable to domestication where as cats are extremely territorial and would savage humans in an instance if it was large enough and it’s a simple as that.
Kind of reminds me of catching bee swarms, except we’d use a milk can. Sit open can below swarm, snip attachment – shoomph – hive in a can.
My encounters with the buzzy things have been during house painting or gardening. I never could see the logic in using chemicals which inevitably infuriate the beasts if one is having to continue working in that area. Hence the containment. Mind you…I don’t have one of those nifty zoot suits.
This wasp nest is right round the trunk of a palm tree and the tree could be damaged. It’s growing on a steep slope, slippery for the blokes, and perhaps slippy if tree died or was removed leaving soil uncovered and exposed to the heavy rain we are getting.
WTF??!!? Somehow I just took it as given that a major government building initiative would include at least include the simplest and basic energy and cost efficient choices. But it seems not …
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/revealed-led-light-bulbs-werent-considered-for-kiwibuild/ar-BBUGzKG?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout
Meanwhile, if there’s any readers with any concern whatsoever for their budget that are still using old-skool incandescent bulbs, get yourself to Bunnings or Mitre 10 today and buy replacement LED bulbs for them. Seriously. Do it now. You can get them for $3 each or less.
You’ll want warm white colour (unless you like your house to look like the alien autopsy room in a bad sci-fi movie), for most fixtures look at the existing incandescent bulb and divide the watts by 10. I’ve pretty much replaced all bulbs that were 100W incandescents when I moved in with 9W LEDs and I’m happy with the how much light there is. If you want more tech details, ask and I’ll write up a bit more.
By the $, a 100W incandescent costs $0.02 to $0.03 per hour, so if it’s on an average of 1 hour per day, that’s $7 to $11 per year. Plus incandescents only have a design life of 1000 hours, by industry agreement. Compare to an LED that costs $3 initially to buy, but pays for itself in electricity savings in 3 to 6 months and should last 10,000 hours or longer.
If you’ve now got compact fluorescents, it’s probably still worth changing to LEDs but the payback time is two or four years. And you get full light instantly instead of the fluorescents taking a minute or so to warm up and get to full brightness.
Flourescent bulbs were a massive gyp. i think I posted on them here some time back. The past is past. LED’s must have improved cos last I looked at them (probably a decade) they were good for a few months then diminished capacity was the norm.
I’m certainly open to new improved LED’s.
Yeah there’s been huge improvements in LEDs over the last decade. But if you’re still suspicious, keep the receipt for a warranty or CGA claim if they do start to fade.
Ten years ago I paid $6 each for the nearly best new tech available to make myself mountain bike lights – 1Watt chips mounted on a 23mm aluminium star module heatsink that put out a then amazing 100 lumens/watt. Nowadays if I were inclined to do the same thing I’d be paying about $1.50 each for 10W chips mounted on a 12mm heatsink that would be up around 140 lumens/watt.
The key to long life in LEDs is keeping the chip from getting hot. They’ve learned a lot about getting better thermal paths from the chip to the heatsink, and in turning more of the electrical energy into light so there’s less heat to dissipate.
Interesting info Andre. I knew LED’s had improved, but for a relatively mature tech that’s pretty impressive.
By complete contrast I recall buying my first red LED almost 50 years ago, it took me ages to save for it, and it barely glowed by today’s standards. But it was worth it just to have this amazing new light source in my own hands.
Dunno that I’d call LEDs relatively mature. There’s still a hell of a lot of space for improvement that nobody has found a way into yet.
For general lighting with acceptable colour rendering, a device that turns 100% of input electrical energy into useful light would put out about 370 lumens/watt. At the moment, the best LEDs top out around 200 lumens/watt.
At the moment, most white LEDs are actually a blue LED shining through a yellow phosphor. So there’s significant light energy lost and heat generated for every blue photon that gets turned into a yellow photon.
The next level of energy efficiency is combining blue LEDs shining through a green phosphor with red LEDs (these are commercially available as Phillips Hue LEDs at horrendous price). There’s less energy lost turning a blue photon into a green one and the necessary red photons are separately emitted at high efficiency by the red LED. Our eyes also respond to red, green and blue light, so a light source that directly emits red, green and blue has an inherent efficiency headstart over a light source that’s blue and yellow. It’s also possible to vary how much energy goes into the red vs the blue-and-green, so the light can change from a cozy yellowish warm light to a brighter daylightish white when wanted.
So that naturally raises the question of producing white light with separate red, green, and blue LEDs. Well, nobody has yet found a way to make high-efficiency green LEDs, so that’s an area with potential.
I think my brain just exploded..
I love it when I do that to people. Can I play with the squidgy bits spattered around? Please?
Be my guest. I don’t need them any more.
I agree. Seems like Twyford wants to make the coalition look like luddites, but more likely he has been knee-capped by whoever made the design decision. Twyford ought to apologise to the public, acknowledge that the govt wants to implement Green house designs, and direct his department to operate accordingly. Bad looks like this will hurt the coalition unless swift remedial action is taken.
That a level of detail that should have been dealt to several pay grades below Twyford. As I see it, there’s even a potential messaging opportunity here for Twyford to push change to a new way of doing thing. Where instead of the initial cost ruling all decisions there’s more attention on whole-of-life costs.
Twyford has screwed completely a policy that was 7 years in the making, thru what … lack of any detail to implement, and has not delivered more than a few spec builders would have supplied to the market in the same period.
To limit to 1st home buyers was a mistake imo, and should the time come that we have any volume, many of today’s 1st buyers will already have moved into a place.
Honestly can anyone expect 1st buyers wait until an appropriate house comes available in their town/city?
Why would people say that not having LED bulbs installed in the homes was a case of lacking in energy efficiency? The sockets for the lights are the same as incandescent if looking at the cheapest and safest. My incandescents cost a little over $1 each and last six months. It would seem that buying LEDs is better, so if I can get warm white, (I dislike the stark white-blue alernative), and am not price-limited I will buy them. But I like having incandescents as spares that I keep in reserve for failures.
Not everyone can get cheap LEDs where they shop. Incandescents should be kept as cheap alternartives while education about the LEDs should continue. That easy calculation of dividing by 10 to find the right level of light when choosing LEDs is handy thanks. Looking at the lumens and other terminology is confusing and people have limited time to moon over products gathering information in the shop.
At my place with 2 adults and 3 kids at home on after dark it was quite feasible for 20 or even 30 bulbs to be lit up. At an average of say 75W each (if they were incandescents) that would be a load of 1.5kW to 2.5 kw, at peak time. and maybe 3 to 5 kWhr per day just for lighting.
Swap those to LED and it’s around 0.2 to 0.3 kw lighting load at peak time, and less than 1 kWhr per day usage for lighting.
How is that difference not an energy efficiency issue?
Furthermore in a new build you can design the lighting around the characteristics of LED lighting and the way LEDs are more directional. LEDs also don’t generate enough heat to risk starting fires if something like insulation or wood is too close. The insulation issue can be a big one, it’s surprising how much warmth can get lost through old-skool ceiling downlight fixtures that have to have the insulation set back quite a distance.
Eric the ‘ripper’…Owen Glenn,NZ taxpayer,anyone who had the misfortune to deal with him,it would seem.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/eric-watsons-cullen-group-avoided-51-million-in-tax-high-court-confirms?variant=tb_v_2
Cullen Group? Is that a deliberate thumb-to-the nose cheeky go at Sir Mike the Upright and exemplar of Austerity and Probity?
No.He has used that name for his investment companies for yonks.
Michael Cullen has been involved with finance for yonks. Just to refresh us on old but important history:
When the Prime Minister, David Lange, attempted to limit the influence Douglas had on the government’s direction, Cullen became involved on Lange’s side. After Labour’s re-election in 1987, Cullen was made Associate Minister of Finance (an attempt by Lange to provide an anti-reform counterbalance to the radical Douglas) and Minister of Social Welfare (an attempt to limit the impact of the reforms in that area).
Eventually, Douglas was forced to resign, but a month later the political controversies around the dispute prompted the resignation of Lange himself. Douglas was succeeded as Finance Minister by David Caygill, one of his allies (albeit a considerably less radical one). Cullen was made Associate Minister of Health, again to reduce the effect of reforms on that sector.
When Labour lost the 1990 election (something attributed by many people to public anger at Douglas’ reforms, and disarray within the Labour Party), Cullen returned to being Labour’s spokesperson on social welfare. The following year, he replaced David Caygill as the party’s chief finance spokesperson…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cullen_(politician)
Watson founded Cullen Investments in 1995.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Watson_(businessman)
Watson owned Westbury Stud Karaka…’Cullen to stand at Westbury Stud in the spring’2001.
Cullen was foaled at Segenhoe Stud in Australia in 1996.
Eric the Ripper has a good ring to it, he and Hotchin towelled up a few investors here in NZ and even managed to get Sir Owen Glenn over a barrell. Karma is a bitch isn’t it.
Their was one thing that was missing from this report.
The IRD, in 2002, approved the scheme. They gave an opinion that it was an Approved Issuer and that the 2% was the correct rate.
The in 2010 the reversed their opinion. That, unfortunately is something the IRD do quite commonly. The effect is that people who relied on the opinion given by the IRD find, much later on, that they have changed their mind and claim taxes and penalties for something they said was fine.
I have no objection to them changing their view. However I don’t believe they should be able to backdate the change.
It is rather like them dropping the blood alcohol limit from 80 to 50 and then fining everyone who was measured at a level between 50 and 80 at a time when that was quite legal.
It is, in practice, passing a retrospective law.
ex National P.M not short of a $!
‘Shipley also invests US$50,000 in Richina. According to numbers quoted by Richard Yan during the court case, Shipley’s investment in the Chinese company could now potentially be worth US$14 million ($22 million), on paper at least.’
Reading this,it seems very clear what was going on here.There is a name for it that begins with F.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12210975
female
fortitude
felony
fandangle
flaccid
fart
finagle
fact-finding
foolishness
That’s my stream of consciousness thinking – the f’s that came to mind.
Fraud
Feasting
Festering
Fuckingcorrupt.
Freemarket
Favoured few find fabulous free funds falling fulsomely forever
You win the chocolate fish today.
Here’s a couple of interesting articles on insurance, or not being able to get insurance in specific areas due to risk from natural disasters or the result of CC.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384579/iag-turning-down-new-property-insurance-in-wellington-region
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-13/climate-data-reveals-australias-worst-affected-regions/10892710
Now remind me of what the role of the former State Insurance was prior to it being sold and what the then muppets said about the market is always right as there is no need to have a Government own/ backed insurance company.
I’m a little bit surprised that the IAG can 50% of the market share in Wellington and if IAG is prepared to do this to Wellington, then what does this say IRT other parts of the country that are at risk from earthquakes and volcanic eruptions?
opening books
At a briefing on the new indictments Tuesday, Andrew Lelling, a U.S. attorney for Massachusetts, said that some parents paid up to $6.5 million “to guarantee admission” for their children to elite colleges. He said that a total of 33 parents have been charged.
“There will not be a separate admissions system for the wealthy. And there will not be a separate criminal justice system, either,” Lelling said.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/12/dozens-indicted-alleged-massive-case-admissions-fraud
The only thing I want to go to California for:
https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/travel/destinations/2019/03/11/california-super-bloom-brings-wildflowers-desert/3133317002/
There’s something magic about a desert suddenly blooming. Enjoy.
Nice WTB – I might refresh a couple of pots with those orange Californian poppies before winter hits.
How about we ditch the lawnmower and plant a range of pasture grasses and flowers instead which wouldgrow unhindered and as the season changes so do the different species?
Seems strange that we spend so much time mowing stuff and annoying the suburbians.
Pro-life my arse.
I can’t quite put in word how much i despise these fucking forced birthers and how much i despite doctors that would let a women develop a sepsis before ‘aborting’ the rotting fetus she carries cause ‘heartbeat’.
https://rewire.news/article/2019/03/07/not-dead-enough-public-hospitals-deny-life-saving-abortion-care-to-people-in-need/
“In one case, a patient who had suffered cardiac arrest shortly before getting pregnant did not meet the hospital’s threshold for life endangerment and was unable to afford to travel and pay for an abortion at the nearest hospital that would see her, about four hours away. She ended up miscarrying in her second trimester. In another case, a patient who was dying from metastatic cancer needed abortion care. The hospital took so long to deliberate, she miscarried too.
“Our conversation should have been like, ‘How can we help you heal and meet whatever your goals are in this terrible situation’, and not about this stupid law,” the doctor said.
“My hands are tied,” she continued. “I can’t do what’s right for the patient.””
yes one can keep roe vs wade ‘legal’ yet put up so many ‘trap’ laws that effectively even a women dying of a septic pregnancy will not get the care she needs. Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women. I can’t find other reasons then hate disguised as ‘won’t no one think of the babies’ cause no, you are not fucking thinking of the baby – born or unborn – and you certainly don’t care about the ‘host’ aka the mothers. (hosts – https://www.google.com/search?q=pregnant+women+are+hosts&oq=pregnant+women+are+hosts&aqs=chrome..69i57.4072j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 )
Well I’m pro choice because arguably the fetus is apart of the woman.
That’s why in my opinion consent is more important than pro choice. The age of legal consent should be again, and this is my opinion, but it should be 21 – 25 years old to account for brain development and basically there’s no marked improvement in income until you’re a graduate.
Having to continue carrying a baby that is dead inside you, is one of the joys that the ethical society force on some unfortunate women. It’s not a healthy situation for her, and negates any suggestion that women and their fertility role is respected by society and those in power. A hero – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
What names do others know of who have championed women in their fertility burden?
F$%ken weirdos ?
“Fucking ghouls hiding behind religion, superstition and simply hate of women.”
Yes there are circumstances in which abortion is the only humane option. But I encourage you to watch this. To the end.
Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.
So no,
if you read the article above you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain, unable to walk, with fever and because they are not yet ‘actively’ dying do not get the health care they need and should be entitled too.
But maybe you missed the part that i put in quotes ‘ had miscarriages in the second trimester’ cause obviously it is more important for the women to suffer some more month then give them the care they need.
So take your preacher / ob gyn and shove him where its dark. Cause this guy will never be denied healthcare, he will never be left to fester with a dead fetus until he ‘actively is dying’ and he will never have to make the choice of having an abortion at an early stage or when you are told that your child that you wanted is growing with a brain outside the skull or has not lungs and that you can’t have an abortion cause hey, women, you are a host, and as such you would have no issues birthing this child and then watch it die.
Pro life my ass. Forced birth. Once born, pull yerself up by your bootstrap child.
‘…you would understand that i am talking about doctors refusing to render aid to women who come to hospital in pain…”
So why the rant about abortion? The issue you are raising is a valid health issue, not necessarily connected to access to abortions.
“Honey, i have had abortions, i also head an emergency hysterectomy and there is nothing this guy will ever tell me.”
That’s rather closed minded. He has performed thousands of abortions, and is describing the utter inhumanity if the process. It is chilling.
So happy, bye bye secondary tax 🙂 I work two jobs so am thrilled about this.
Thanks government, this was one of the reasons I gave my party vote to Labour last election 🙂
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1903/S00088/an-end-to-unnecessary-secondary-tax.htm
I like this one…
I’m running on 8% kiwisaver at present, and getting some quite reasonable returns. I wouldn’t mind kicking that up as everything is automatic and way less hassle than dealing with other investments on an ongoing basis. Essentially automatic payments really waste my personal time when they come out of my working account. It doesn’t take much to suddenly be providing the bank with extra revenue with fees. And even worse, I get people trying to ring me when I’m coding which is REALLY expensive.
Which is why I’ve pretty well eliminated most of automatic payments including those to other investment funds. Paying as part of my PAYE is way easier which is now the only way I do it. Other bills just get paid when I have a few spare minutes on my phone.
But I would like to push a bit more into investments. It’d be nice to have a 12% or 15%. But 10% is better than 8%
Also I’m not planning on stopping work (or riding my e-bike to work) unless I really really have to. I’m nearly 60 now and still coding well. Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.
😈
“Life after 65 will probably still involve me working and demonstrating both current coding and antique techniques to those callow youngsters under the age of 40.”
🙂
Careful tho’ @ lprent – things like experience and proven record can often account for sweat FA these days
until you turn out to be tho only one who can talk to the machine. #consultancyrates
I have tended to rely less on experience and track records than on companies being desperate to get their projects out of the door.
Most jobs that I have had in programming for the last couple of decades has been after whoever I went to work for had an unfortunate problem of some kind caused by mismanagement of their projects in their staffing, documentation, design, or implementation and needing someone to recover it.
i am so pleased about it. My shop girl studies, works for me and has a few other side digs in summer when the tourist come. I am so pleased for her that she does not have to pay more taxes on her income now then Gareth Morgan.
This is a good inclusion as well:
“- exempt directly funded disability support payments from income tax”
The utterances of Molyneux, Southern and Peterson seem benign compared to the pro-plague propaganda this fucking terrorist is spreading.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/03/australian-blogger-bringing-dangerous-anti-vax-tour-to-nz.html
Seems an attention getter, without having to strip, but it really is part of a porn movement to look at me, I’m good looking and achieving celebrity and you can be like me. Tell people things that make them think, or feel they have gone through the motions.
It’s mental gym here folks, worry about my subject, and don’t waste your energies on the rest of life, which is confusing and debilitating to the mind. Stay with us and reeelaaax your mind, and together we will solve your problems. Half the things you worry about don’t happen. You can have twice as much fun in your life if you just stop worrying about finding the truth and just listen to us; listen to our Foundation; The Foundation of Life.
Watch out for that in your letterbox and on line soon. Someone will pick up on that to sell something to the peeps.
She’s a con artist making big biccies out of gullible parents.
http://morganfoundation.org.nz/capital-gains-tax-political-stunt-no-economics-rationale
Gareth Morgan outlines the arguments against CGT far more cogently than I have done.
poor thing, still trying to get away from tax faster then anyone can say boo.
Can’t have Gareth Morgan pay taxes. Now that would upset the tax evader.
Poor thing, did no one tell him that he would have to pay nothing if he is not selling his assets:? Oh that is how he made his money in the first place? Sucks to be him.
I think you should address the arguments that Morgan puts up if you wish to have any credibility. Poking fun at Morgan himself seems pretty futile.
Morgan is actually proposing a far more radical change to taxing wealth that is unavoidable.
http://morganfoundation.org.nz/capital-gains-tax-political-stunt-no-economics-rationale/ Thanks mikesh
Gareth writes:
“The Economist advocates, as do I, that such transaction taxes be removed and instead annual levies be applied.
This inclusion of taxation upon all income to capital (not just homes but all non-financial capital) properly integrated into the current income tax regime…”
I don’t know what that means. Annual levies? Does that mean like higher Rates?
I have sought an answer for this but does anyone know how this would be better than CGT?
Morgan is not entirely clear on what he means by “annual levies”, but I think he means the tax on imputed rentals. Perhaps The Economixt sees the lack of these as a possible justification for capital gains taxes, but thinks it would be better to apply them on a regular basis rather than as lump sum tax when the property is sold.
Morgan provides a link to the Economist article but it’s behind a paywall. However the headline indicates that what the Economist wanted to replace was stamp duty on the sale of a property.
That would be good – a CGT of reasonable percentage on commercial and rented properties. Then stamp duty of a small percentage on all properties.
Two bites at a luscious cherry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you lachrymose speculators. (I thought I would throw in a new word to the stewpot with the so many others used in the debate about taxes on housing.)
I think you are misunderstanding the comments. The Economist was writing about the British situation, and recommending that their stamp duty be abandoned, and replaced by an annual payment of some sort. Without having access to the Economist article I cannot say what the nature of that annual payment would be.
This happened middle of Feb. It illustrates attitudes that many on this blog have never come across but shows up many in our culture as having a lack of maturity and respect in attitudes to women. And that might apply to women as well, though it is apparently mainly men who replied.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/02/show-some-respect-finnish-woman-s-nz-farming-ad-draws-scores-of-gross-comments.html
A woman complained that there were’nt jobs available to locals. If it was her personally, she should have put up her own advert. If it was general she should have not butted in, it isn’t the Finnish woman’s fault and it was just bad-mouthing her instead of the politician who should be controlling foreign workers. But she iwould be unlikely to have put her thoughts to the polly, most NZs just vent, full of sour air.
And the men who used the opportunity to make remarks that were sleazy or suggestive, that is so childish. They have no awareness of how to communicate in a public place, as on-line sites are, and that shows lack of maturity too. I wonder where these men learned their attitudes towards women? In the home? Is it being passed on down the generations in some farm families? And the old refrain – just having a joke, some people have no sense of humour.