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Open mike 13/03/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 13th, 2022 - 57 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

57 comments on “Open mike 13/03/2022 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    Andrea Vance speculates on the new left/right balance persisting until the election:

    With ACT firmly married to National, and the Greens wed to Labour, NZ First and Te Pāti Māori are now in play. Both sit on two per cent in the poll… The poll indicates a sea change. And a rising tide of Māori voters could decide the future government.

    A common thread in Peters most recent press releases is co-governance (the arrangement for negotiated decision-making between iwi and other Māori organisations and central government). He argues Labour has no mandate for the policies… Suspicion about a separatist government Māori agenda has been growing since the emergence of the He Puapua report, and galvanised by opposition to plans to overhaul how the country’s three waters services are managed.


    Could Peters use this as leverage to perform another Houdini act? Given Labour's timidity in framing co-governance to the media & public, I suspect their answer would be yes. And I reckon they'd be right. Vance points out he just needs some such "wedge issue" and it is indeed a godalmighty wedge.

    Expect Luxon's advisors to spot this. They'll be dead keen to stop Winston pulling 3% more out of the Nat support base, so we'll see Luxon adopting the Peters line.

    However the crucial action will probably occur within the Maori vote. At 16% of the populace – say half that is voting age – yet the MP pulls only 2% currently. I'd therefore guess Labour's Maori cabal got 6% last election.

    Where that 6% go will therefore decide the next election. Labour's timidity on co-governance is therefore the hinge. If they cave, and abandon support for the Maori cabal agenda, Willie & co will start to wonder if there's any point staying with Labour.

    If their disgust with Labour pakeha betrayal got sufficiently strong, they'll look at jumping ship. To the MP probably – unless Winston is smart enough to have already sussed the scenario & shifted into behind the scenes negotiating. If they jump prior to the election, it's bye-bye Labour…

    • JanM 1.1

      If Andrea Vance thinks there's the slightest chance that Maori Labour would go near NZ First she's either being ingenuous or not very smart

    • Treetop 1.2

      I cannot see NZ First returning to parliament. I can see the Maori Party gaining more MPs.

      Inflation and the cost of housing is going to be hardest on those with the lowest incomes. Long wait times for medical services will also sway voters.

      Strategic voting will probably determine who the next government is.

    • Belladonna 1.3

      However, the MP vote (if it eventuates) is going to be almost entirely pulled from Labour (the GP don't poll significantly well in the Maori seats – and National has no numbers to lose, here).

      That's numbers on paper – some of the Labour MPs have a very tight tribal lock on their seats – I wouldn't expect Mahuta or Tirikatene to be voted out – they're effectively endorsed by the iwi leadership.

      There would have to be an enormous swing against Labour (something like the seabed and foreshore issue) for Labour to lose those 2 seats.

      MP have made it fairly clear that they have nothing in common with National – so Labour is the only game in town for coalition.

      In addition, if the MP start to poll around 5%+ – or start to look as though they'll pull in 5 or so seats from Labour, and it's looking like a Labour/Green/MP government – I'd expect to see some of the soft centrist Labour vote, start to shift to National – as they're spooked by what looks like a radical agenda.

      They'd shift to a centrist party (which is what Winston portrayed NZ First as) – but they're unlikely to trust Winston again (though never, say never, with that wily fox) – and, without him, there is currently no centrist party. So, if they're spooked, it's National or nothing.

    • Foreign waka 1.4

      It looks to me that it is the pakeha population who feels hoodwinked and will vote accordingly. No one begrudges Maori their culture and status, but perusing an agenda no one has voted for via a back door and lying about it (yes lying) coupled with the not so flash stewardship of the economy will have consequences. The former also destroys any trust in the Maori Party if they show to be part of this tactical manoeuvre. I know these are strong words in a society that is more and more muzzled, but I pledge free speech. On the issue of inflation, which is the consequence of more than one event but created by external as well as internal factors, it will see the majority falling into income brackets that essentially set them back 10 years. This measured against pricing for food, fuel, electricity, rates, rents etc. will have a huge bearing on the next vote. When the PM sees this as a "plip" in the road to push the party agenda through, then the phrase "let them eat cake" is not far from the mind. Everybody living here has a right to be able to survive and thrive without losing their basic human rights because they disagree with the powers to be. Those tribal games, those divide and conquer games have to end. There is a need for a sound and measured approach, coherent solutions economically, environmentally and in societal context clearly spelled out and put on the table. Still waiting for a party to show its hand and a vision for all NZlanders without constantly going back to school yard bully behaviour.

      If nothing changes, the young professionals will leave the country for greener pastures in great numbers. The writing is already on the wall.

      • Blade 1.4.1

        ''If nothing changes, the young professionals will leave the country for greener pastures in great numbers. The writing is already on the wall.''

        Agree. That is a given. The numbers leaving may be the new 1pm news briefing once Covid numbers are no longer reported.

        I recently stopped outside a closed cafe. The sign in the window said they may be able to reopen if the following positions are filled:

        2) Chefs

        2) Baristas

        3) service staff.

        Where have the previous employees gone? My guess is they are taking a paid break courtesy of the government before heading overseas. And if that's true, the situation with professionals must be worse given the big money on offer just across the ditch.

        • McFlock

          Look, employers can have whatever staff they want if they're prepared to do a bit of honest hard work.

          They can't just expect opportunities to fall into their lap, they have to get out there and create them. Really sell themselves as an employer. Put themselves out there.

          I wonder if they've tried networking functions? Word of mouth advertising can do wonders.

          Maybe they could try finding savings elsewhere in their business, which they can then put towards really getting the staff they want?

          If they put their head down and work hard and keep a good attitude, rewards will come.

          Nobody want to hear it, but if they'd made better personal choices in the past, they wouldn't be in this position now. Rather than whinging or demanding that government fix their problem for them, how about some personal responsibility?

          I was once on an interview panel 20 years ago, so I've done the hard yards, too. The problem with this generation of employers is that they just expect everything to be handed to them.

        • Foreign waka

          Blade – Yep, because it is a badge of honor to milk the system. How many times I have seen and experienced this is not even funny anymore. It really is difficult to be confronted with such attitude but this is true everywhere. A emigrant might go to a different country but their attitude travels with them.

          However, at the same time there are many of the younger folks that feel shafted when they paid for their education and all the can land is a minimum pay job. There is a disconnect between the promise made to these graduates, i.e. if you get this degree or that, it is an opportunity and pays really well etc., vs what the market actually need and demands and will provide. So they are getting impatient and frustrated and look further afield for getting ahead. This is, and lets not forget this, a created instant gratification society. Be kind sometimes works, sometimes it will just create a bigger issue.

    • Ad 1.5

      Has some other party proposed a co-governance model?

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    Here's a revealing profile of Putin's #2: https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/the-second-most-powerful-man-in-russia/

    Nikolai Patrushev is currently the secretary of Russia’s Security Council.

    Patrushev graduated from the Leningrad Shipbuilding Institute with a diploma in engineering, a certification he shares with Russia’s current chiefs of the state security and intelligence services: Alexander Bortnikov, director of the FSB, and Sergey Naryshkin, director of the SVR, Russia’s foreign intelligence service. Was it a great loss to Soviet engineering that they all became KGB officers? Their motivation is not difficult to explain — becoming a KGB officer was a ticket to a privileged lifestyle in the Soviet system.

    Oleg Kalugin, a naturalized U.S. citizen and former KGB general-turned-critic, was once well acquainted with Patrushev. “I knew him really well for a long time. He was my assistant in Leningrad,” Kalugin said in a 2012 interview with Ukrainian journalist Dmitry Gordon. “He was different from other KGB officers in that he never blindly followed the orders of his superiors.” According to Kalugin, Patrushev approached his work with a kind of “humanitarian concern” for everybody involved. He was not a rigid enforcer of Communist rules.

    In his memoir “Spymaster: My Thirty-Two Years in Intelligence and Espionage Against the West,” Kalugin included a story involving Patrushev. When one of the Communist Party bosses in Leningrad accused a certain individual of “anti-Soviet agitation” and demanded that the KGB put him under surveillance, Kalugin recounted how he advised Patrushev: “Why don’t you invite [this individual] to your office, talk to him, and point out his errors and inconsistencies? Tell him to be careful. That way we can close the case without an arrest.” Patrushev complied, unafraid of bending KGB standard operating procedures. Kalugin was pleased that his advice was followed and that the individual avoided potentially devastating consequences for speaking his mind.

    That Patrushev was not a dogmatic Communist may come down to his strong religious beliefs. Much later, when he became the director of the FSB, he was instrumental in supporting the renovation and reconsecration of Sophia, the Wisdom of God Orthodox Church, which is next to the FSB Lubyanka headquarters. It is said that before embarking on special missions, many FSB officers would stop in this church to say their prayers. Patrushev also proudly supported the construction of the statue of St. Nicholas the Wonderworker near one of Russia’s northernmost border posts on the Franz Josef Land archipelago in the Arkhangelsk region.

    The west has long used St. Nicholas the Santa, of course. But all we ever get from him is yet more capitalist crap. So here's an opportunity to use lateral thinking in the foreign policy of Aotearoa. We can advise the Russians that we'll do a switch to St. Nicholas the Wonderworker if they can provide a sufficiently impressive list of wonders that he worked.

    The world needs wonderworkers (climate change etc) so we can alert the Russian regime to the potential for using their St Nick as an avatar for combining positive thinking with magic to shift mass consciousness. Since it seems obvious that they haven't spotted the potential for global influence already, I mean. They need our help.

    • Byd0nz 3.1

      Really! Can’t see it, same old same old one eyed drivel of little substance. No mention how the Ukraine situation could have been avoided had the deaf ears of the UN addressed the concerns voiced many times by Russia regarding NATO’s expansionism and the dire plight of the Donbas peoples being constantly bombarded by factions of the Ukrainian army since 2014 with huge civilian casualties. So the one eyed view of Mr Freedman counts for FA

      • Stephen D 3.1.1

        Someone’s drunk Putin’s kool aid!

        • In Vino

          Such an infantile comment and attitude.. Only like one flavour of propaganda 'kool aid' do you, Stephen D?

          • Stephen D

            Actually, I don’t believe everything I read, no matter who or what the source. When possible, triangulate.

            • In Vino

              Well, you don't extend that consideration to BydOnz, do you? Even though he condemns one-eyed drivel…

      • Ad 3.1.2

        I know right?

        The UN could have stopped

        Intifada, Venezuela, Afghanistan and Pakistan

        Ukraine and uranium, Yemen and covidium

        Russia and Somalia, Taiwan and diptheria

        Climate change and Syria, Israel and malaria

        Poverty and selfishness, oil and gas and nastiness

        Those things the UN smooths with honey

        With unlimited power and money

      • Foreign waka 3.1.3

        You do know that this is not really set as context in the news media. This war uses phrases to manipulate on an emotional level and the rhetoric of the President of Ukraine has changed from "help us defend ourselves" to " Mr Zelensky said Western nations – and nearby Europe in particular – must go further and "act without delay"." Act in what way? All the sanctions are in place, Russia is cut off and Europe is to become the battle field for who exactly?

        The whole of Europe has signed agreements after the WW2 that would prevent such scenario. If they would intervene in a military way, WW3 is on. Do people understand how dangerous the situation is?



    • Ad 4.1

      It certainly would have been a proper 'war zone' if foolish Labour Ministers that didn't know the law had brought the Army in like they and many on the left were calling for.

      A children's slide some new grass and two minor fires, compared to a legislated loss of liberty supposed to gain a civic trade that hasn't prevented 300,000+ current infections and 100+ deaths.

      A fair democratic price paid so far.

      • McFlock 4.1.1

        […] hasn't prevented 300,000+ current infections and 100+ deaths.

        look around the world and hazard a guess at the deaths the govt response has prevented.

        It seems that where public health is at stake, the perfect is the enemy of the rational as well as the good.

    • Barfly 4.2

      The Police Officer overstated the situation obviously but it was probably the most dramatic, confused and potentially violent situation they had ever encountered – they obviously didn't experience the 81 tour protests or the Queen Street riot (too young)

      • JO 4.2.1

        The Police Officer overstated the situation obviously

        Erh, your hat isn't your keyboard, best not to talk through it unless you were there? That officer's description matched what I saw on the live streams only too starkly. We have no right to dismiss someone's direct experience if we haven't shared it or been through something similar.

        Would you dream of saying Ukranian refugees are overstating their situation?

        • Barfly

          "War Zone" in Wellington lol

          In the Ukraine it's a war zone – blown up hospitals, shelled apartment buildings, blown up bridges, dead bodies ,smoking ruined Tanks and Infantry Fighting Vehicles, murdered civilians and raped women that is a fucking war zone not that pissant riot in Wellington.

          No I wouldn't say Ukrainian refugees are overstating their situation at all. They are in a war zone.

          To inflate what happened in Wellington by claiming or supporting claims it was a war zone is pretty bloody obscene when we are seeing firsthand what a real war zone is.angry

      • joe90 4.2.2

        Yup, overstated.


    • Matiri 4.3

      A detective used to working on murder cases would know murderous intent if he saw it!! A sobering read.

      • Anne 4.3.1

        I agree Matiri. When you compare his words to what we actually saw happening in real time, I don't think he overstated the case at all. It was an horrific scene and astonishing no-one was killed. I saw one cop with a shield being trampled underfoot by a bunch of thugs. I didn't think he was going to come out of it alive. Maybe he was the cop who wrote this story.

        • Barfly

          Hmm a war zone in Wellington and no one died –

          thousands dead in the Ukraine get a sense of proportion

          Bricks are not artillery shells metal poles are not cruise missiles a piece of 2 by 4 is not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle to suggest that Wellington and the Ukraine are/were both war zones is damned offensive.

          • Anne

            I never used the expression “war-zone” nor suggested any such comparison so why aim your brickbats at me. Its only you who is making the comparison about two totally different and unrelated events.

            • Barfly

              Agreed – I apologise I lost it a bit after JO's effort at 4.2.1 the linked article said the officer said it was a 'war zone' which I found enraging. I misdirected my ire to you and I am sorry for doing that.

  3. Dennis Frank 5

    ACT outflanks Labour on the left, advocating practical socialism:

    Act leader David Seymour said they would fund this from Emissions Trading Scheme revenue. That is what companies pay in order to emit carbon into the atmosphere. Seymour said it is about $1 billion a year, and instead of going into what he calls the government's climate slush fund, it could be distributed to everyone.

    "Act says, at a time like this, we should return carbon tax revenue to those struggling with high prices" Seymour said in a statement.


    • Incognito 5.1

      ACT outflanks Labour on populism and propaganda. What’s new?

    • Blade 5.2

      What a pity National didn't have the foresight to suggest this. Putting a policy like that in tandem with tax cuts would have been a big vote catcher in my opinion.

      I doubt Labour would implement such a policy, given it targets everyone, even white folk finding it hard to keep the Audi running.

      The Right is going to need something to counter the trinkets Robbo Hood will proffer to voters over the next two budgets. In fact, if Labours fortunes keep trending down, Robbo may become more important to Labour’s chances of survival than Jacinda.

      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1

        It remains to be seen whether the PM rediscovers her mojo. Your prediction came true rather promptly, eh? I'd made similar prognostications in prior months so wasn't totally surprised.

        Re Grant, expect a careful balancing act with the numbers matched with spending priorities I guess. A semblance of caring for the poor sufficient to fool enough voters, to mask the lack of substance thereof.

        The main thing about the poll was floating voters underwhelmed by Labour's dropping of the ball. Labour are the kind of shallow thinkers who reckon pandemic fixation is a valid excuse for non-delivery. Too many opinion leaders in the community know better. Therefore the PM must get back into the saddle. The wrong conclusion to draw from the poll is floating voters rewarding National for performance. Ain't none of that happening.

  4. joe90 6

    We’re waiting for the end of history, Francis.



    • Dennis Frank 6.1

      the end of history

      Banal at the time. Will he ever live that down? However he's a thoughtful chappie & usually worth a read. I own several of his books & have even read them.

      I'm impressed that he's with the ever-growing body of opinion that predicts Putin to become a loser. A cautionary note: nobody with a track record of military expertise seems to have entered the public arena with the same opinion yet.

      When I was watching the first Gulf War on CNN (we had it piped into our monitors in the TVNZ newsroom despite it being unavailable here on broadcast tv) I always appreciated the expert opinions of the top military analysts they interviewed as operation Desert Storm proceeded. None of that happening now – dunno why.

    • Anne 6.2

      That makes sense to me. Hope he is right with his prognostications.

      No 7.

      1. Putin will not survive the defeat of his army. He gets support because he is perceived to be a strongman; what does he have to offer once he demonstrates incompetence and is stripped of his coercive power?

      As the writer points out later and I paraphrase: the days of the "strongman" leaders around the world will be numbered.

      • joe90 6.2.1

        The middle of a war is probably not the best time to purge the upper ranks of your intelligence services. But hey, he's an ex KGB guy so I guess he knows a fair bit about purges..

        A Russian spy chief and his deputy have been placed under house arrest by Vladmir Putin as the president blames his security services for the resistance met in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it has been claimed.

        According to a leading expert on the Russian security services, Sergey Beseda, head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch, was arrested along with his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh.

        Andrei Soldatov, who is co-founder and editor of Agentura- a watchdog of the Russian secret services’ activities – revealed that sources inside the FSB have confirmed the detention of both men.

        The arrests were further corroborated by Vladimir Osechkin, an exiled Russian human rights activist who also added that the FSB officers had carried out searches at over 20 addresses in Moscow of colleagues suspected to be speaking with journalists.



    • Grafton Gully 6.3

      No mention of Putin's religious mission.

      "Since he became President, Putin has cast himself as the true defender of Christians throughout the world, the leader of the Third Rome. His relentless bombing of ISIS, for example, was cast as the defence of the historic homeland of Christianity. And he will typically use faith as a way to knock the West, like he did in this speech in 2013:

      “We see many of the Euro-Atlantic countries are actually rejecting their roots, including the Christian values that constitute the basis of Western civilisation. They are denying moral principles and all traditional identities: national, cultural, religious and even sexual. They are implementing policies that equate large families with same-sex partnerships, belief in God with the belief in Satan.”

      Putin regards his spiritual destiny as the rebuilding of Christendom, based in Moscow. "


      • Dennis Frank 6.3.1

        Putin's perception that the west are "implementing policies that equate large families with same-sex partnerships, belief in God with the belief in Satan" seems a tad extreme and would likely fail the test of evidence.

        It would have been better for him to quote orthodox christian doctrine on these two points, eh? To prove there is a substantial difference, I mean.

        Satan, also known as the Devil, and sometimes also called Lucifer in Christianity, is an entity in the Abrahamic religions that seduces humans into sin or falsehood.

        In Judaism, Satan is seen as an agent subservient to Yahweh, typically regarded as a metaphor for the yetzer hara, or "evil inclination." In Christianity and Islam, he is usually seen as a fallen angel or jinn who has rebelled against God, who nevertheless allows him temporary power over the fallen world and a host of demons.


        Why did god allocate this entity a place of high status in his righteous scheme? You'd have to ask a theologian. Don't ask more than one, since none of them agree with each other on the fundamentals & you'll only get confused!

        My guess is that god created this entity for his own purposes (which remain mysterious) but I have to admit I borrowed this rationale from some ancient theologian. Then you get this:

        first appears in the Hebrew Bible as a heavenly prosecutor, subordinate to Yahweh (God), who prosecutes the nation of Judah in the heavenly court

        So the baddie operated on god's behalf in administering divine justice. And his target was a nation of baddies (the jews). Confused yet?

        So Putin's theological critique amounts to the west equating god with god's justice administrator. This is indeed a grievous error. I can see why it bothered him.

  5. JanM 7

    Just found this in a book of quotes. "I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That keyis Russian national interest." From Winston Churchill, October 1939. Would seem to be relevant right now !

  6. Byd0nz 8

    Well, if Putin fails and the longed for American dream of regime change occurs in Russia, I hope that it is the 2nd most popular party (by far) that gets the nod from the Russian voters, that party of course is the Communist Party. That regime change probably is not the one NATO or any of the western nations want though, lol and boohoo.

  7. Molly 9

    UK Research and Innovation (UKRI) published an article on March 9th 2022, titled:

    Consider both sexes in experimental design – by Mandy MacLean MBE, FRSE, FMedSci, FBPhS, Professor of Pulmonary Pharmacology.


    Don't bother clicking. It's already down, and UKRI have been asked why.

    For the intellectually curious, a copy was archived on the web archive site:


    "Thinking about both sexes when designing research experiments will soon be the default for grant applications. And here’s how your research could benefit.

    Women represent about 50.6% of the UK population and there are sex differences in the prevalence and severity of most diseases and conditions, as well as responses to drugs and therapies.

    Therefore, there are many reasons why studying male and female animals is important in pre-clinical research.

    Making both sexes the default

    The Medical Research Council (MRC) will soon require that sex be considered as part of the experimental plans of grant applications that involve:

    • animals
    • human or animal-derived cells or tissues.

    Both sexes should be used as a default unless a robust justification is given. MRC will fund these studies if they are robustly designed, regardless of any increase in costs.

    To be clear, I refer here to ‘sex’ which is defined by a set of biological attributes, as opposed to gender, which is a societal construct. Animals do not have a gender.

    Sex differences can impact metabolism of drugs and hormones, and non-specific effects of drugs and their side-effects. In addition, every cell has a sex and male and female cells have different characteristics and responses to experimental conditions."

    Will be interesting to see if UKRI respond, and what the story is.

  8. joe90 10

    The puppet selected and installed by an occupying force isn't the mayor, he's a collaborator.

    The Zaporozhye regional administration says a new mayor has been installed in the Ukrainian city of Melitopol, which is under Russian military control, after the elected mayor was detained on Friday


  9. Jenny how to get there 11

    Free the Mayor

    Where is the Mayor of Melitopol?

    Mayor Ivan Federov, who is an ethnic Russian, had encouraged recent demonstrations in Melitopol against Russia.

    Disappearances are stock in trade for fascist regimes. So asking where the Mayor of Melitopol has been taken is no small question. If they can disappear a Mayor, they can do it to anyone. Protesters, political activists, journalists are all under threat of being disappeared.

    Where is the Mayor of Melitopol being held?

    Has he been allowed to use a phone?

    What are the charges against him?

    What has be been accused of?

    Where's the evidence?

    Is he alive?

    Thousands protest in Melitopol after Russian forces reportedly abduct mayor with a hood over his head

    By Timothy Bella

    Today at 12:00 p.m. ES

    …..Large crowds gathered in the southern port of Melitopol on Saturday to protest the alleged abduction of the city’s mayor, Ivan Fedorov, by Russian troops, an act that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky described as “a crime against democracy.”

    ….Russia has accused Fedorov of “terrorist activities,” according to the Associated Press. The prosecutor’s office of the Luhansk People’s Republic, a Moscow-backed rebel region in eastern Ukraine, has claimed without presenting evidence that Fedorov was financing the nationalist militia Right Sector to “commit terrorist crimes against Donbas civilians.”

    …..The mayor’s alleged abduction prompted roughly 2,000 people on Saturday to protest outside the city hall building occupied by Russian forces, Zelensky said. Bundled-up against the cold, protesters in Melitopol chanted for Fedorov’s release.

    “Bring back the mayor! Bring back the mayor!” they chanted. “Freedom to the mayor! Freedom to the mayor!”

    …..As residents took to the streets of Melitopol last weekend to wave the blue and gold colors of Ukraine, Fedorov encouraged the demonstrations, even amid the Russian occupation.

    “Together we will overcome anything!” he wrote in a Facebook post that has since been made private.

    ….Even as Russian forces aimed to shut down Saturday’s protest, Zelensky reiterated to reporters that he was “grateful to every Melitopol resident for this resistance” by demonstrating in response to the alleged abduction of Fedorov. He also suggested to Putin that the war is unpopular among Russians.

    “Do you hear it, Moscow?” he asked. “If 2,000 people are protesting against the occupation in Melitopol, how many people should be in Moscow against the war?”


    Zelenksy is on the right track. The War in Ukraine will be won/lost in Russia.

    • Jenny how to get there 11.1

      We can help. The Russian legation in Wellington need to have their diplomatic immunity revoked until the Mayor of Melitopol is released.

    • Ad 11.2

      Won or lost? Bold call!

      • Jenny how to get there 11.2.1


        13 March 2022 at 6:13 pm

        Won or lost? Bold call!

        There is a precedent.

        Many commentators have compared this war to Germany's invasion of Poland. I compare it to the American invasion of Vietnam.

        It can be argued that the war in Vietnam was won and lost in America.

        The Vietnam war was notable as being the first ever televised war.

        All the Vietnamese had to do was keep fighting. The longer the war went on the more the objections and protests in America grew.

        In Ukraine's asymmetric war gainst Russia, Ukraine has advantages the Vietnamese didn't, they speak the same language, they are nearby not thousands of miles away. And last of all they have the internet, live streaming all the crimes of the aggressor nation.

        Putin has tried to impose and electronic Iron Curtain to stop Russians seeing the live stream of Russian war crimes in the Ukraine The original Iron Curtain lasted 4 decades, the new electronic lasted four days before it was breached.

        The longer the Ukraine resists the more the resistance to war will grow in Russia.

        The end result is inevitable. A humiliating defeat for Russia.

      • Jenny how to get there 11.2.2

        One big difference between the Vietnam war and the Ukraine war. will be that when Russia is defeated by Ukraine, there will be Nuremberg style court hearings to of Russians identified as having committed war crimes. Including the disappearances and murder of civilian leaders political activists and journalists.



        “The fact of the abduction of the Mayor of Melitopol, along with hundreds of other facts of war crimes by Russian occupiers on the Ukrainian soil, are being carefully documented by law enforcement agencies. The perpetrators of this and other crimes will be brought to the strictest responsibility,” the ministry said in a Facebook post.

  10. Ad 12

    What's your Ukraine donation group of choice, people?

  11. Ad 13

    Odds on for dairy solids per kilo at NZ$11.

    Less milk, Ukraine conflict driving dairy prices up (ruralnewsgroup.co.nz)

    A perverse boom, but a boom nonetheless.

    • Tricledrown 13.1

      We as a country will need high returns for our commodities to pay for imported commodities.

  12. Dennis Frank 14

    Tracey Martin told One News that she has a $100 bet going with Ron Mark that NZF will not make it back into parliament at the next election. 🤑

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