Open mike 13/05/2019

128 comments on “Open mike 13/05/2019 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   13 May 2019 at 7:22 am

   Dragons!

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/11yo-tries-and-fails-to-bribe-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-into-funding-dragon-research.html
   • A 1.1

     13 May 2019 at 9:43 am

     The bribe was a nice touch 🙂
2. Ad 2

   13 May 2019 at 7:26 am

   Big ups to Sage and Nash for their massive conservation zone proposals on the coast from Timaru to the Otago heads.
   • vto 2.1

     13 May 2019 at 7:35 am

     Yeah, but remember what happened with the same zones on the South Island West Coast? All the good parts stayed open while the reserves were allocated the emptiest parts of the coast where the fishing was worst i.e. there was little to protect
   • Siobhan 2.2

     13 May 2019 at 12:53 pm

     Lets talk about cameras on the boats…then I might take nashy a bit more seriously

     https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/08-02-2019/russel-norman-nash-and-jones-are-leading-nz-fishing-into-rotten-waters/

     https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018681117/stuart-nash-defends-govt-fishing-policy
     • Poission 2.2.1

       13 May 2019 at 12:59 pm

       Lets talk about your cat infecting rare species.

       https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304401712005675
     • Cinny 2.2.2

       13 May 2019 at 1:19 pm

       As an ex EA at one of NZ's largest fishing companies…. I STRONGLY AGREE, re camera's on boats. They are definitely needed, am well and truly over the what goes on at sea stays at sea narrative. Dodgy industry.
       • sumsuch 2.2.2.1

         13 May 2019 at 10:11 pm

         Some of the dodgiest people I know fish commercially. A byword for it, at least to me. Along with secondhand car salesmen, who I don't know personally, and horticultural contractors, who I do.
     • Stuart Munro. 2.2.3

       13 May 2019 at 1:45 pm

       The government has no will to enforce regulation, the camera scheme was an industry design to get rid of observers, who were in turn substitutes for fisheries officers who had the power to lay charges under the act.

       It's no coincidence that our industry has failed to develop, a culture of evading regulation is not compatible with a quality driven or sustainable approach. NZ is one of the last countries producing fillet block, not because our fish is inferior, but because our companies are.
3. Sacha 3

   13 May 2019 at 7:57 am

   Bullying rife across our schools: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12230188
   • AB 3.1

     13 May 2019 at 9:58 am

     No surprise there – as a parent of a kid with a physical disability I can tell you that exclusionary bullying is totally rife. In my experience worse at the intermediate and primary school level. Also that teachers are unable to do anything about it, so seek to minimise it by using procedures that contain the assumption that everyone is to blame a little bit, and it's just an 'issue' that needs to be resolved through discussion.

     My (completely unscientific) thoughts on this are the industrial-scale schools are a bad idea, with groups of un-managed feral kids roaming round at break times. They should be much smaller physically with much stronger cultural management and combined in a federated structure. Moreover the Boards of Trustees thing is a total failure due to capture by the aspirational middle class who seek to perpetuate inside the schools the very same hierarchies that benefit them in society at large.
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       13 May 2019 at 10:18 am

       Good points AB. I never saw a parent from a poorer family elected to the Board of Trustees at the local primary school situated in a part of town with many professionals and businesspeople. It doesn't matter how good a person, or a parent, or involved in the community, or trained in a useful occupation; you are not one of the levels of people of higher standing and will lose to an academic, professional or well-groomed madam in real estate. All materialists, and driven by style rather than substance.
     • Cinny 3.1.2

       13 May 2019 at 1:25 pm

       This bit AB…

       Also that teachers are unable to do anything about it, so seek to minimise it by using procedures that contain the assumption that everyone is to blame a little bit, and it's just an 'issue' that needs to be resolved through discussion.

       I strongly agree with you.
     • KJT 3.1.3

       14 May 2019 at 4:31 am

       Entirely accurate summation.
   • Cinny 3.2

     13 May 2019 at 1:24 pm

     It sure is rife, Miss 14 came home from what should have been an amazing school camp in tears on Friday. She had been put down by the boys the whole time. Currently in communication with the school about it.

     The boys say it's just banter, maybe that's normal in some homes, but it's not normal in ours. Anti bullying week this week, if you see anyone being bullied stand up and speak out, because ignoring it just condones it.
   • Peter 3.3

     13 May 2019 at 5:37 pm

     Is the idea to have schools lead societal change by making bullying unacceptable and having young citizens develop good attitudes to others so that bullying doesn't happen when they go out into the post-school world?

     Or is it to simply deal with incidents of bullying when they happen. Then kids leave school not bullied and go into a world where they're going to find bullying makes the world go round.
     • KJT 3.3.1

       14 May 2019 at 4:40 am

       I've found that bullying is even worse, in many other cultures and countries. Unlike NZ, though, it is not considered a problem. The "pecking order" especially at work, is the normal state of things.

       At least we are trying to reduce it.
4. esoteric pineapples 4

   13 May 2019 at 8:35 am

   Capital punishment a real possibility for woman in Texas and Georgia who go to a different state for an abortion. Unless the Supreme Court doesn't allow this to happen (and there is a good chance with anti-abortion majority of judges they would support the states' laws) then it could soon be reality

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPCVaACYQzE
   • greywarshark 4.1

     13 May 2019 at 10:08 am

     For God's sake! Poor women, poor people in Texas. Prating politicians and preachers. They seem a bloodthirsty lot there in Texas, and diseased by emotions of hate for people who break their pretended high moral codes.

     I remember Texas for some males tying a black man to the back of their vehicle and dragging him around behind till he was dead. Now the authorities want to kill women who don't want to bring a baby into that world. There appears to be a knee jerk violent response to anyone who disturbs a male in Texas which may include death. Women who are unfortunate to have sex resulting in an unwanted pregnancy, are to be killed if they wish to terminate it? That seems a violent response from the he-men and preachy women of Texas, (There will always be women willing to sacrifice other women, even their daughters, to the male Rule.)

     On checking about the murder referred to above I find that he was convicted in 1999 and only executed in 2019 – ten years later. But Texans have executed three this year out of the four for the whole of USA. And another violent murder in Texas was the basis for Obama's 2009 Hate Crimes Prevention Act. It seems that hating is something they are keen on in the good ole State of Texas in USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-execution/white-supremacist-to-be-executed-in-texas-for-dragging-death-of-black-man-idUSKCN1S01BY

     (Reuters) – A white supremacist convicted of killing James Byrd Jr. in 1998 by dragging the 49-year-old black man behind a truck in one of the most notorious U.S. hate crimes of modern times was executed in Texas on Wednesday.John William “Bill” King, 44, was put to death by lethal injection and pronounced dead at 7:08 p.m. (0008 GMT Thursday) at the state’s death chamber in Huntsville, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice said in a statement….

     …King was found guilty of capital murder and sentenced to death in 1999. He was a member of a white supremacist gang and spoke of starting a race war while in prison for a previous crime. He also talked about initiating new members by having them kidnap and murder black people, court documents showed.

     King was the third inmate in Texas and the fourth in the United States to be executed in 2019, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

     …The gruesome killing spurred the passing of the James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Act, strengthening punishments for hate crimes in Texas. The murder, along with that of Matthew Shepard, a gay University of Wyoming student who was beaten and left to die tied to a fence, was also the genesis of the federal hate crimes prevention act passed in 2009….
   • greywarshark 4.2

     13 May 2019 at 10:20 am

     Isn't this proposed anti-abortion law in the USA something similar to rigid Sharia law?
5. esoteric pineapples 5

   13 May 2019 at 8:37 am

   White House revokes huge number of press passes

   https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-white-house-has-revoked-my-press-pass-its-not-just-me–its-curtailing-access-for-all-journalists/2019/05/08/bb9794b4-71c0-11e9-8be0-ca575670e91c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.62a03c162fd1
6. esoteric pineapples 6

   13 May 2019 at 8:40 am

   Did Trump traffic in cocaine? Pulitzer prize-winning journalist thinks so

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkT_2N6gEm8
7. esoteric pineapples 7

   13 May 2019 at 8:45 am

   It is worth following what is going on with the Venezuelan embassy in Georgetown Washington DC. Violent right wing opposition supporters and the US secret service and local police have laid siege to the embassy which is occupied by Code Pink protestors (invited in by the Venezuelan government who own the building).

   https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Codepink-US-Govt-Turns-Off-Water-in-Venezuela-Embassy-20190511-0012.html
8. cleangreen 8

   13 May 2019 at 9:01 am

   This site is for all the "Climate Deniers" to observe the changing planet in the monthly satellite pictures since 2002 to 2016.

   Our whole world changes from a light grey in 2002 to a bright red at 2016, and will wake up the most ardent "Cliate denier, try looking at this- I dare you to.

   https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

   • CARBON DIOXIDE • GLOBAL TEMPERATURE • ARCTIC SEA ICE MINIMUM • ICE SHEETS • SEA LEVEL Carbon Dioxide LATEST MEASUREMENT:

   March 2019 410 ppm

   DOWNLOAD DATA

   Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an important heat-trapping (greenhouse) gas, which is released through human activities such as deforestation and burning fossil fuels, as well as natural processes such as respiration and volcanic eruptions.

   The first graph shows atmospheric CO2 levels measured at Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii, in recent years, with average seasonal cycle removed. The second graph shows CO2 levels during the last three glacial cycles, as reconstructed from ice cores. The time series below shows global distribution and variation of the concentration of mid-tropospheric carbon dioxide in parts per million (ppm).

   The overall color of the map shifts toward the red with advancing time due to the annual increase of CO2. Missions that observe CO2 Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO-2) DIRECT MEASUREMENTS: 2005-

   PRESENT Data source: Monthly measurements (average seasonal cycle removed).

   Credit: NOAA 2006 2008 2010 2012 2014 2016 2018 2020 YEAR 380 385 390 395 400 405 410 CO2 (parts per million) Click+drag to zoom RESET Get Data: FTP | Snapshot: PNG PROXY (INDIRECT) MEASUREMENTS

   Data source: Reconstruction from ice cores. Credit: NOAA ________________________________________ T

   TIME SERIES: 2002-2016 Data source: Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS). Credit: NASA
   • sumsuch 8.1

     13 May 2019 at 10:25 pm

     You should hear the sad sounding (!) American on Jesse Mulligan's RNZ prog today recording our last chance for fighting climate change in the 80s when apparently it was all known. The first George Bush's chief of staff John Sununu, long before denialism, pulled America out of a global accord at the last minute. His diminuation of his crime, no one intended to carry out the requirements. It makes me call out to the God of our conjuring to help us.
9. One Two 9

   13 May 2019 at 9:38 am

   Inaccurate official assessment of radiofrequency safety by the Advisory Group on Non ionising Radiation

   The Advisory Group on Non-ionising Radiation (AGNIR) 2012 report forms the basis of official advice on the safety of radiofrequency (RF) electromagnetic fields in the United Kingdom and has been relied upon by health protection agencies around the world.

   This review describes incorrect and misleading statements from within the report, omissions and conflict of interest, which make it unsuitable for health risk assessment.

   The executive summary and overall conclusions did not accurately reflect the scientific evidence available.

   Independence is needed from the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP), the group that set the exposure guidelines being assessed.

   This conflict of interest critically needs to be addressed for the forthcoming World Health Organisation (WHO) Environmental Health Criteria Monograph on Radiofrequency Fields.

   Decision makers, organisations and individuals require accurate information about the safety of RF electromagnetic signals if they are to be able to fulfil their safeguarding responsibilities and protect those for whom they have legal responsibility.
   • One Two 9.1

     13 May 2019 at 11:06 am

     Critique of ARPANSA TRS164 Report

     PDF page 7. Maps to the linked document above (9).

     Inaccurate official assessment of radiofrequency safety by the Advisory Group on Non-ionising Radiation.

     Conflicts of Interest decide safety levels which corporations seek to adhere to.

     When entry and exit criteria are flawed, faulty and governed by conflicted actors at the highest point filtering to subsidiary governing entities

     …There can be no confidence in any downstream activity selling the faulty statistics and method as safe.
   • OnceWasTim 9.2

     13 May 2019 at 4:20 pm

     you're not seriously expecting some sort of remedy are you?.

     last time I checked, RF management was under the Ministry for Everything (alongside things like building standards enforcement, employment standards enforcement, and ummigration.

     They can't even handle basic radio interference on the bands we've had in use for years.
     • Rosemary McDonald 9.2.1

       13 May 2019 at 4:59 pm

       They can't even handle basic radio interference on the bands we've had in use for years.

       Now, now….just the other night our household was suddenly blighted with the most awfullest of interference/static/alien invasion coming through our transistor radios. One is battery powered the other 240v. Seriously hideous and unbearable, especially for a household with no telly.

       But we do have the google and a quick search 'what the hell is causing this 'orrible, 'orrible noise on my tranny…' took me straight to…https://www.rsm.govt.nz/consumers/what-is-interference/radio-interference/how-can-i-fix-my-radio-interference

       ….and bugger me, techno moron moi managed, by following instructions and working my way through the very helpful sound clips, to identify the problem to a very wonky (that's techno speak for 'stuffed') modem.

       Sorted.

       I actually gasped when I looked at the top of the screen and saw MOBIE….who would have thought it?
     • One Two 9.2.2

       13 May 2019 at 5:52 pm

       you're not seriously expecting some sort of remedy are you?.

       No. I expect for the baked in fraud perpetuated by regulatory entities which generate the so called safety levels of RF, will continue to be used against earths populations and the environment on behalf of industry which could not proceed with the experimentation without the fraudulant facade…of regulation…

       Which fools enough folks…those who bother to pay attention…
       • Tuppence Shrewsbury 9.2.2.1

         13 May 2019 at 6:01 pm

         It’s not PhilU,

         its fucking Ed behind one twos moniker.

         As if you’re the only person who pays attention you pathetic windbag. You’ve come back to the standard purely because you’ve got nothing to feel good about IRL.
         • Sacha 9.2.2.1.1

           13 May 2019 at 6:12 pm

           Surely the site moderators can use IP mapping to sniff out industrial waste like Ed trying to sneak back in.
           • One Two 9.2.2.1.1.1

             13 May 2019 at 6:19 pm

             …industrial waste like ed…

             You refer to another human being who was quite likely trying to do his best to contribute…and that is banned and unable to defend himself …

             As industrial waste.

             Have a stern word with yourself…if you’re capable.
             • Sacha …

               13 May 2019 at 6:22 pm

               Enough people know Ed's track record, including the sneaking back repeatedly like a feeble dirt-licker.
               • One Two …

                 13 May 2019 at 6:39 pm

                 And now making excuses for yourself, dragging in others and doubling down on the insult.

                 There is no excuse for such cowardice.

                 Regardless what you believe.
                 • Bazza64 …

                   13 May 2019 at 6:50 pm

                   I wondered why One Two had the letter E on the tinfoil hat he wears !!
                 • Tuppence Shrewsbury …

                   13 May 2019 at 7:18 pm

                   Classic Ed!!

                   Telling others to be ashamed based on his judgement of their behaviour that completely ignores his own exact same behaviour.
                 • mauī …

                   13 May 2019 at 7:56 pm

                   Thank you One Two well said.
                   • Milly …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:08 pm

                     As we are talking about people being censored for opposing group think, have you noticed Rachel Stewart has left Twitter after outrageous online bullying.

                     As George Orwell said,

                     “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.”

                     First they came for Colonial Viper,……
                   • solkta …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:26 pm

                     Ummm, it was Ed who wanted people sent to labour camps for having thoughts.
                   • Milly …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:42 pm

                     Soltka your memory betrays you.

                     It was recommended by Ed that Simon Doull go to Bangladesh to help build walls against the floods. That might prove to him climate change was real.

                     For some bizarre reason that earned a life ban.

                     Meanwhile today, Sacha compares Ed to industrial waste, dehumanising and hateful language at best and a lot more brutal than Ed ever wrote. Sacha might not be aware that the Hutus described the Tutsis as cockroaches. The consequence was genocide.

                     https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/73836

                     The reality is that voices like CV, Bill, One Two, Ed, Bomber Bradbury, Paul, Rachel Stewart and others are not welcome here as they challenge the centrist and complacent Labour position.

                     You’ll find that the biggest cheerleaders for such savage censorship are the voices of the right wing dwellers on this site.

                     Maui you are a rare voice of reason amongst ever more reactionary commentary.
                   • solkta …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:46 pm

                     No, Ed said that Simon and others should be sent there and forced to labour. If you can't see a problem with that you should probably leave too.
                   • The Al1en …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:48 pm

                     Or be made to, again lol
                   • Milly …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:49 pm

                     Do you have as strong an opinion on people being called ‘cockroaches’ or ‘industrial waste.’ ?

                     Just wondering how selective your outrage is.
                   • solkta …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:51 pm

                     Calling people names versus sending them to labour camps? Oh gosh it's a hard one.
                   • mauī …

                     13 May 2019 at 10:36 pm

                     Absolutely correct yet again Milly. The central elites get so caught up on the littlest things.

                     First they came for Colonial Viper,……

                     Is it any coincidence that the best commenters are disappeared…
             • James …

               13 May 2019 at 7:48 pm

               Ol Eddie was banned for good reason.
               • solkta …

                 13 May 2019 at 8:07 pm

                 Labour camps for Climate Change denialists. Classic stuff.
                 • Milly …

                   13 May 2019 at 8:52 pm

                   As a matter of interest, what do you believe the punishment should have been handed out to war criminals in WW2 for genocide?
                   • solkta …

                     13 May 2019 at 8:54 pm

                     Seems like a completely unrelated question.
                   • mauī …

                     13 May 2019 at 10:41 pm

                     Sending wayward youth on an LSV course is the equivalent of a war crime in a centrists world. Go figure.
                 • marty mars …

                   13 May 2019 at 11:06 pm

                   yes he also wished people to war to suffer the consequences. a sad fellow indeed
           • Andre 9.2.2.1.1.2

             13 May 2019 at 6:27 pm

             I'd put money on Milly. Behaviour's a bit modified, but sometimes it looks like the control slips.
             • Psycho Milt …

               13 May 2019 at 7:13 pm

               Ha ha, yes that Daily Review sequence is pure Paul/Ed. Speaking of which, in the other link, how could the moderators bring back both Paul and Ed? Human cloning?
               • Andre …

                 13 May 2019 at 7:34 pm

                 Human cloning? Sockpuppets should be that hard.

                 Having said that, I don't mind if the sockpuppets are sufficiently different. It's only irritatingly boring when their content is exactly the same and it's just the handle that's different.
                 • Tuppence Shrewsbury …

                   13 May 2019 at 7:39 pm

                   at least this iteration of Ed isn’t spamming boring links with Tenuous validity from the same site and demanding everyone bow down and agree.

                   oh wait
                   • Sacha …

                     13 May 2019 at 9:55 pm

                     Apparently dissing a vexatious commenter banned many times for spouting pools of verbal sewage is 'genocide'. Will someone think of the children!
10. A 10

    13 May 2019 at 9:46 am

    Aussies are stupid. This scheme will ensure the pain of falling house prices is shared amongst more of the population. Ugh. #ScoMo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFaZcVczurI
    • Gabby 10.1

      13 May 2019 at 10:34 am

      What scheme?
11. ScottGN 11

    13 May 2019 at 10:33 am

    Five days to go in the Aussie election and it’s interesting to see who is campaigning where.
    Labor has gone on the offensive in seats that are usually solid for the Coalition and Morrison has been forced to defend seats that normally wouldn’t warrant a visit from the leader in an election campaign.
12. Dennis Frank 12

    13 May 2019 at 10:39 am

    BBC: "A number of gay rights activists have been arrested after clashing with police at an unauthorised pride march in Cuba's capital, Havana. Saturday's event followed the unexpected cancellation by the communist authorities of the country's 12th annual march against homophobia. Activists condemned the move and then organised their own demonstration, largely through social media. Marching in Cuba without permission can be met with a strong police response." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48242255

    Defiance of the edict of the one-party state is as futile in Cuba as in China: " Cuba has had a communist political system since 1959 based on the "one state – one party" principle. Cuba is constitutionally defined as a Marxist–Leninist socialist state guided by the political ideas of Karl Marx, one of the fathers of historical materialism, Friedrich Engels and Vladimir Lenin. The present Constitution also ascribes the role of the Communist Party of Cuba to be the "leading force of society and of the state" and as such has the capability of setting national policy."

    Protests supporting gay pride may seem inoffensive, but when leftists achieve a monopoly on state power and control, even the smallest misbehaviour by the masses can seem offensive to them.
    • AB 12.1

      13 May 2019 at 11:26 am

      "but when leftists achieve a monopoly on state power and control, even the smallest misbehaviour by the masses can seem offensive to them."

      This should read:

      "but when [anybody] achieves a monopoly of state [or private] power and control, even the smallest etc "

      i.e. the problem is power itself. Non-leftists don't get off the hook on this one, nor do the holders of private economic power. And in well-functioning democracies (which are admittedly rare) state power can at least claim to be of democratic origin.
      • Dennis Frank 12.1.1

        13 May 2019 at 6:03 pm

        Correct exposition of the general principal that applies, well put. I was flagging the psychology that motivates people to align with the left, in the hope that someone will explain why it warps human nature. In respect of traditional mythology around the left – representing the people etc. What motivates them to victimise people when they get successful…
        • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1.1

          13 May 2019 at 6:35 pm

          Dennis, I “align with the left” – might be something to do with the appeal of
          "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."

          I do believe that there needs to be more wealth sharing (and not just in NZ society) than is presently the case – the increasing concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands feels unsustainable, and that's just one unsustainable aspect of how we are living now.

          Maybe my feeling that too many 'things' are going skew-whiff is due to my warped nature – I sincerely hope so, because BAU would suit me down to the ground.

          I’m ready for my SUV, Mr. DeMille!
          • Dennis Frank 12.1.1.1.1

            13 May 2019 at 8:45 pm

            My SUV is a plug-in hybrid (Outlander). I've believed in more wealth-sharing all my life. I recall long ago when I read about the levellers, in the time of Cromwell's commonwealth, who took the extreme line of equality of wealth for all, and I agreed with that principle.

            Age tends to shift idealism into pragmatism though, eh? Nowadays my inner idealist yields to my inner pragmatist usually, and the concept of meritocracy rates higher than the concept of democracy accordingly. Not as much as for Mark, who cited it in justification of China's regime yesterday, however!
            • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1.1.1.1

              14 May 2019 at 11:49 am

              Pragmatism (IMHO) owes too much to short-term (age-related) self interest to steer us away from increasing 'skew-whiffedness' – we are in a bind.

              "Don't worry, be happy." is my take on pragmatism – skew-whiffedness isn't my problem, what can I do? But "I have such doubts."
        • KJT 12.1.1.2

          13 May 2019 at 8:55 pm

          Same as motivates the right. Greed, and lust for power.

          Which is why genuine democracy, is essential.
    • KJT 12.2

      13 May 2019 at 7:07 pm

      Dennis Frank conflating being "left wing" with authoritarian Government, again. Who are the most enthusiastic about spies, restricting protest, corporate rights and State control in New Zealand, again? . Hint, it is not those of us of "leftish" persuasion.
      • Dennis Frank 12.2.1

        13 May 2019 at 8:51 pm

        Yeah, I know. I was using the notion as everyone else has always used it, as a term of consistent general meaning. As you imply, the meaning of left differs depending on the political context it is applied in. Such relativity is part of postmodernism – a part that is valid in my opinion…
        • solkta 12.2.1.1

          13 May 2019 at 8:53 pm

          Yes we know that you know that you talk through your arse.
          • Dennis Frank 12.2.1.1.1

            13 May 2019 at 9:14 pm

            Still failing to grow up, I see. Or is it intentional, to prove that leftists really are as inadequate as people think they are?
            • solkta 12.2.1.1.1.1

              13 May 2019 at 9:19 pm

              Right, cause you all mature and all saying things you know to be bullshit just to try and get a rise.
    • sumsuch 12.3

      13 May 2019 at 10:37 pm

      Big downer on Gays from Castro on. 'Read a book'. Homosexuality popular in the country apparently. The author killed himself because his age prevented him from being attractive any longer. What the fuck did homosexuality have to do with anything? Except machismo?
13. Sacha 13

    13 May 2019 at 10:46 am

    Less ironic radiation, that's what we need!
14. Sacha 14

    13 May 2019 at 11:18 am

    Richard Harman says the party boss has applied pressure inside the Nats to back Bridges. From http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/1560/ for our review, criticism, etc:

    … immediately after the party’s Central North Island conference in Hamilton, a meeting of electorate chairs made it clear to Party President, Peter Goodfellow, that they had questions about Bridges’ leadership.

    POLITIK understands that Goodfellow, in turn, warned the chairs of the dangers of public shows of disunity.

    …

    And it would seem from public statements from Goodfellow and not-for-attribution comments from senior party officials attending the party’s South Island conference over the weekend in Invercargill that the party hierarchy not only backs Bridges but is opposed to any move to roll him.

    “We’re really lucky,” Goodfellow told the conference. “We’ve got Simon Bridges as a very enthusiastic and decisive leader of our party.”

    Goodfellow did not offer this endorsement at the Hamilton conference.
    • sumsuch 14.1

      13 May 2019 at 10:54 pm

      So much worse to the right fed by internet American views of reality. Thankfully without political or MSM entre. Something sounder about our country keeps out the Right Wing anti-rational views of America. Or, our elite can't speak conscious lies.
15. cleangreen 15

    13 May 2019 at 11:31 am

    UN Climate change Leader is today warning that the world is loosing the will to address climate change?

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/un-climate-chief-warns-of-catastrophe-if-world-leaders-continue-to-dawdle-2019-04-25 UNITED NATIONS —

    The U.N. climate chief says world leaders must recognize there is no option except to speed-up and scale-up action to tackle global warming, warning that continuing on the current path will lead to “a catastrophe.” Patricia Espinosa stressed in two recent interviews with the Associated Press that climate scientists are saying there’s still a chance to make things right “but the window of opportunity is closing very soon” and the world has 12 years until carbon emissions reach “a point of no return.” That means the world needs to accelerate all efforts to keep from reaching that level, “and therefore all efforts are absolutely indispensable” to cut carbon emissions and keep temperatures from rising, she said.
    • Sacha 15.1

      13 May 2019 at 11:38 am

      "the world is loosing the will to address climate change"

      Nothing in the article supports that statement.
      • cleangreen 15.1.1

        13 May 2019 at 3:36 pm

        Ah Another climate denier eh Sasha?

        I thought you was actually a climate change advocate, – guess we are wrong?

        We heard he was reported on (RNZ) on 'morning report' as saying the world is loosing the will to fight climate change.

        If you read between the lines here you can reach that conclusion your self as the RNZ reporter did.

        Also on Breakfast TV one he also hit hard at polluters to be taxed for their pollution and his words are angry to the ones who are not moving on climate change.

        Check both press releases.

        I believe he has sent that message that he believes some countries have given up and that is why he is coming out swinging.

        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/un-secretary-general-calls-initiatives-carbon-neutrality-during-auckland-visit

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/chief-forecasts-total-disaster-global-warming-stopped-190509054543572.html

        UN chief forecasts 'total disaster' if global warming not stopped

        World must change in 'transformative' ways to prevent climate change prompting 'total disaster',

        Antonio Guterres says.

        9 May 2019

        Guterres said he would ask the world leaders to stop subsidising fossil fuels

        [Mary Altaffer/AP] MORE ON UNITED NATIONS UN chief:

        Climate change 'running faster than we are' today

        The United Nations secretary-general said the world must dramatically change the way it fuels factories, vehicles and homes to limit future warming to a level scientists call nearly impossible. The alternative "would mean a catastrophic situation for the whole world",

        Antonio Guterres told The Associated Press news agency in an exclusive interview. Guterres said he was about to tour Pacific islands to see how climate change was devastating them as part of his renewed push to fight it.

        He was summoning world leaders to the UN in September to tell them "they need to do much more in order for us to be able to reverse the present trends and to defeat the climate change".

        That means, he said, the world had to change, not in small incremental ways but in big "transformative" ways, into a green economy with electric vehicles and "clean cities"

        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/un-secretary-general-calls-initiatives-carbon-neutrality-during-auckland-visit UN Secretary General urges governments to tax polluters in bid to cut carbon emissions

        PAUL HOBBS 1 NEWS REPORTER 9:56AM

        1 NEWS MORE FROM NEW ZEALAND CLIMATE CHANGE AUCKLAND PAUL HOBBS

        The UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres has met with the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw and a group of youth leaders at the Auckland War Memorial Museum.

        Mr Guterres called for three initiatives to aid in the quest for carbon neutrality.

        He said governments must shift taxes from salaries to carbon, meaning tax polluters not people.

        He said we must stop subsidising fossil fuels and urged the world stop the construction of new coal plants by 2020.

        Mr Guterres said we need green economies not grey economies.

        One youth leader, who is part of the Blake Inspire group, presented the Secretary General with a pair of red socks and a sample of his own invention – an environmental substitute to "glad wrap".
        • Sacha 15.1.1.1

          13 May 2019 at 3:57 pm

          Here is the story from Morning Report: https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018694766/un-leader-in-nz-talking-climate-change-social-media-terrorism

          Like everything you have posted today it contains not the slightest hint that the UN Secy General said the world is 'losing the will' to fight climate change.

          If you want to make shit up, fill your boots – but do not claim that public figures or media said stuff that they didn't. And if you are incapable of making sense of what you read, perhaps best to stop flapping your gums in public. You're just wasting everyone's time.
          • cleangreen 15.1.1.1.1

            13 May 2019 at 5:51 pm

            I saw the same on RNZ at 5.30pm as the Auckland University meeting with the students were interviewing the Secretary of the UN and the statement was by the moderator that he has signalled in his discussions that he feels that most have given up on Climate change so go listen to the 5.30 news on channel 83 dick.
            • Sacha 15.1.1.1.1.1

              13 May 2019 at 6:05 pm

              Yes I saw the Checkpoint report (see https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-05-2019/#comment-1616276) but you provided not one link earlier to back up your claims it had been said this morning. And I’m not familiar with this ‘channel 83 dick’ you mention. Is it a perfume for the privates?
    • One Two 15.2

      13 May 2019 at 1:28 pm

      Meanwhile over in the Huawei thread…

      Technology companies, similar to the vast majority (+/-100%) of profit driven corporations, have future roadmaps which earnings/profits have been used as leverage…

      Captured regulators set the course and paid for legislators clear the barriers for business as usual…

      Politicians answer to job creators, wealth creators …BAU…

      It matters not what the UN says to politicians…

      Politicians are not in control…they seemingly have no will…no courage to fight against corporate business as usual..

      Ergo, saying the world is loosing the will to address climate change…is factually correct..

      From a political perspective.
      • Sacha 15.2.1

        13 May 2019 at 2:37 pm

        Nothing in the article supports that statement.
      • cleangreen 15.2.2

        13 May 2019 at 3:44 pm

        100% One Two; yes that is clear here, so the secretary general has placed a line in the sand, as far as we can see by championing Climate change when the piss weak 'politicians' won't and that is why the reporter claimed the UN secretary general has shown to believe that the world had given up on climate change.

        I for one believe that the children will show how bloody weak many are including all the climate deniers are on TS also.
        • Sacha 15.2.2.1

          13 May 2019 at 4:01 pm

          "that is why the reporter claimed the UN secretary general has shown to believe that the world had given up on climate change."

          Please stop lying.
          • cleangreen 15.2.2.1.1

            13 May 2019 at 5:53 pm

            Watch the RNZ on Channel 83 at 5.30 dick and see it there. dickhead.
            • Sacha 15.2.2.1.1.1

              13 May 2019 at 6:02 pm

              See below, tosser: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-05-2019/#comment-1616276
        • Bazza64 15.2.2.2

          13 May 2019 at 4:12 pm

          They use to call it Global warming, but now it is climate change. Is that because the temperatures weren't heating up as much as they were supposed to?
          • Psycho Milt 15.2.2.2.1

            13 May 2019 at 4:29 pm

            No, it's because far too many dull-witted literalists missed the point and were prone to posting mind-bogglingly stupid stuff like:

            In the beautiful Midwest, windchill temperatures are reaching minus 60 degrees, the coldest ever recorded. In coming days, expected to get even colder. People can’t last outside even for minutes. What the hell is going on with Global Waming? Please come back fast, we need you!

            Trust well known moron and US President Donald J. Trump to provide us with a good example.
          • cleangreen. 15.2.2.2.2

            13 May 2019 at 5:58 pm

            Bazza64 watch this I dare you.

            https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-report-on-climate-change-shows-canada-warming-at-twice-the-rate-of/

            Report on climate change shows Canada warming at twice the rate of rest of world
            JEFF LEWIS – ENVIRONMENT REPORTER
            JANICE DICKSON
            PUBLISHED APRIL 1, 2019UPDATED APRIL 2, 2019
            • Bazza64 15.2.2.2.2.1

              13 May 2019 at 6:49 pm

              Canada is bloody freezing & could do with a bit more warmth.
          • Macro 15.2.2.2.3

            13 May 2019 at 6:33 pm

            What planet are you on?

            The first month of 2019 was characterized by warmer-than-average conditions across much of the world's surface. The most notable warm temperature anomalies were present across much of Australia and across parts of northeastern and southwestern Asia, where temperature departures from average were 4.0°C (7.2°F) above average or higher. Record warm January surface temperatures were present across much of Australia and its surrounding Southern Ocean, southern Brazil, the ocean off the south coast of South Africa, and across parts of Africa, Asia, and the southeastern Pacific Ocean. Notable cool temperature departures from average were present across parts of northern North America, Europe, and central Asia, where temperatures were 1.0°C (1.8°F) below average or cooler. According to our analysis, no land or ocean surface had record cold January temperatures.

            Averaged as a whole, the January 2019 global land and ocean surface temperature was 0.88°C (1.58°F) above the 20th century average and tied with 2007 as the third highest temperature since global records began in 1880. Only the years 2016 (+1.06°C / +1.91°F) and 2017 (+0.91°C / +1.64°F) were warmer. The ten warmest Januaries have all occurred since 2002, with the last five years (2015–2019) among the six warmest years in the 140-year record. January 1976 was the last time the January global land and ocean temperatures were below average at -0.02°C (-0.04°F).

            https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201901

            There is no slowing in Global temperature rise – and it will continue to increase until humans stop increasing GHGs – and even then it will still continue to increase until the the energy the Earth releases in black body radiation equals the energy the Earth receives from the sun. With the current concentration of over 400 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere that peak temperature will be around 2 – 3 degrees C above average pre-industrial levels.

            That the temperature rise has periods of peaks and then troughs does not mean that the planet is not warming – any investigation of recorded Global temperatures over the past century and a half will show that there is a distinct upward trend in averaged Global temperature. Indeed the graph is increasing in slope not slowing down as the above report from NOAA indicates. Those peaks and troughs are the natural occurrence of weather patterns. A sharp period of cold in one area, is quite possible even on an otherwise warming Earth and higher precipitation levels are simply to be expected as the atmosphere's ability hold more water vapour increases by around 4% with each degree C rise in temperature.
16. The Chairman 16

    13 May 2019 at 1:48 pm

    A little dated but still extremely relevant. Authoritarian Neoliberalism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5XbAqYmiHs
    • Gosman 16.1

      13 May 2019 at 2:07 pm

      This guy is an idiot. Was he speaking before or after the Greek Euro crisis? If it was before then that should have highlighted that the rules in place in the Eurozone allowed massive State spending in member countries (up to a point) and there was little penalty for breaching them. If it was after he should know the massive danger of unrestricted State spending and how the Eurozone countries had to bail out those that attempted to spend their way to prosperity.
      • The Chairman 16.1.1

        13 May 2019 at 2:31 pm

        It was after. And he wasn't advocating irresponsible spending.

        He was demonstrating how socialist policy options are being outlawed while neoliberal policies are being enshrined in law, subverting democracy.
      • rod 16.1.2

        13 May 2019 at 4:49 pm

        @ gossy This guy is an idiot, well as the saying goes, it takes one to recognise one. Well done Gasman, we already knew that.
        • The Chairman 16.1.2.1

          13 May 2019 at 5:03 pm

          Ponder this, rod: with socialist policy options being outlawed, what will become of supporters?
          • The Al1en 16.1.2.1.1

            13 May 2019 at 5:14 pm

            Well according to you, full on lefties unhappy change isn't occurring fast enough under labour, will go off, spin 180, and then vote act 😆
            • The Chairman 16.1.2.1.1.1

              13 May 2019 at 5:23 pm

              That seems (anecdotal) to already be happening.
              • The Al1en …

                13 May 2019 at 8:57 pm

                I've never known any genuine left leaning voter go from left to ultra right because the government isn't left enough. It's completely illogical and counter productive.

                Nobody goes from protesting against what isn't left enough to voting for the far right, well, not unless they're phoney to begin with, like I believe you to be.
                • Robert Guyton …

                  13 May 2019 at 9:02 pm

                  
                • adam …

                  14 May 2019 at 12:16 am

                  Or they may see Anarchism is the only option, when so called left wing governments embrace far right economics.
                  • The Al1en …

                    14 May 2019 at 8:55 am

                    Sure, Rick, but probably not if they work for a living.
                    • adam …

                      15 May 2019 at 5:43 pm

                      Lame, lame, lame quote of the week!
                    • The Al1en …

                      15 May 2019 at 6:16 pm

                      Yeah, get back to me when your anarchist posse number more than the hours you work in a week.
              • Incognito …

                13 May 2019 at 10:12 pm

                In Epsom?
17. RRM 17

    13 May 2019 at 3:04 pm

    I thought you all might enjoy this:

    "[Jacinda Ardern] also has areas where she is very strong performer, and people will be making a mistake if they under-estimate her abilities. I certainly won’t be."

    That's from arch-tory, RWNJ, Dirty Politics blogger etc etc, David Farrar…

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/05/why_national_shouldnt_fall_into_labours_trap_of_under-estimating_the_prime_minister_of_the_day.html
    • patricia bremner 17.1

      14 May 2019 at 2:49 am

      He is saying 'know the enemy' He is warning those in National not to underestimate her ability.
18. feijoa 18

    13 May 2019 at 3:43 pm

    Tip Top ice cream has been sold to an overseas buyer

    A sad day

    My loyalty to the brand will switch to a NZ company
    • cleangreen 18.1

      13 May 2019 at 3:48 pm

      fiejoa,

      “A sad day – My loyalty to the brand will switch to a NZ company”

      I agree ‘Mine to’ let us know what the best NZ owned brands are when you find them please?
      • BM 18.1.1

        13 May 2019 at 4:45 pm

        Tip Top ice cream is rather average.

        If I do feel the need for some ice cream I buy this brand (NZ Made)

        http://www.muchmoore.co.nz/
        • Macro 18.1.1.1

          13 May 2019 at 9:59 pm

          Yeah not bad, But Deep South is my preferred indulgence

          Passionfruit cheesecake 🍦 is simply yummy

          https://www.deepsouthicecream.co.nz/
    • indiana 18.2

      13 May 2019 at 4:41 pm

      Did you do the same thing when Bata, the NZ shoe manufacturer sold to Skellerup?
      • feijoa 18.2.1

        13 May 2019 at 5:31 pm

        Well, I supported Minnie Cooper shoes before they closed, I also support Ziera shoes ( I think they are a NZ company but I am going to check now!!), and I have a fabulous pair of McKinlay boots made in Dunedin. Is that enough?
        • KJT 18.2.1.1

          13 May 2019 at 7:14 pm

          Lastrite boots in Whangarei. Will tailor to your feet.
    • greywarshark 18.3

      13 May 2019 at 6:15 pm

      This is Fonterra. A NZ company that has no interest in value added, and keeping strategic NZ assets within the country. $380 million? Now more of our national earnings flowing over the border – must be like a financial waterfall now. They're spending money like water. Oh no, water is like money but we haven't caught up with the rest of the smart world yet. 'Perhaps they never will'.
    • Pat 18.4

      13 May 2019 at 7:11 pm

      Deep South…is a better ice cream anyway
      • Macro 18.4.1

        13 May 2019 at 10:00 pm

        
    • patricia bremner 18.5

      14 May 2019 at 2:52 am

      YES and they may also lose a third of their value, as Cadbury did.
19. xanthe 19

    13 May 2019 at 4:23 pm

    hey i cant post from my tablet android n chrome browser

    I cannot get focus in the comment box (altho i can type in the name and email field) is this just me ?
20. R.P Mcmurphy 20

    13 May 2019 at 5:22 pm

    they have changed a few talking heads at RNZ lately but the still have the same old drugs on THE PANEL. worst of all is mould old fig jock anderson stilll raking in pro rata payments for sitting there and dishing the PM and the NZLP every time he gets the chance. time to ditch him and get some new blood.
21. Sacha 21

    13 May 2019 at 6:00 pm

    At last, the UN leader is reported saying what people here claimed without evidence earlier – at 1m28: https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018694859/un-secretary-general-tax-pollution-not-people

    But the UN Secretary-General sounded a disappointed note when confessing that many of his ilk have all but given up.

    "It is clear my generation is having enormous difficulties in assuming responsibilities in relation to climate change."

    He said current leaders have lost the political will – and they won't be around to suffer what he called 'the catastrophe' of a global temperature rise higher than 1.5 degrees by the end of the century.
    • Sacha 21.1

      14 May 2019 at 6:55 am

      Though it's worth noting that he said leaders of his generation have lost the will, not that 'the world' has. This situation is serious enough; it does not need any exaggeration and hype from us.
22. cleangreen. 22

    13 May 2019 at 6:05 pm

    We need some larger kiwi mainstream company to go against Tip Top so we can pick icecream up at every dairy and supermarket.like we did with Chocolate Cadbury vs Whittakers.
23. cleangreen. 23

    13 May 2019 at 6:36 pm

    So some of these anti climate change folks here may be global operators who are used to interfere with our discussions about climate change, and now this may be a foreign based lobby group working for Oil Companies?

    We have already seen the phony front called “Galileo movement”

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/galileo-movement-fuels-australia-climate-change-divide/

    National’s Dirty politics beginning again we see?

    Program on TV One news tonight at 5.30pm about this today groups using algorithms to undermine our political system they suggested.
24. cleangreen. 24

    13 May 2019 at 6:45 pm

    More proof of clandestine climate deniers here in Australia
    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Galileo_Movement

    Galileo Movement Learn more from the Center for Media and Democracy's research on climate change.

    This article is part of the Center for Media & Democracy's spotlight on front groups and corporate spin.

    This article is part of the Coal Issues portal on SourceWatch, a project of Global Energy Monitor and the Center for Media and Democracy.

    See here for help on adding material to CoalSwarm. The Galileo Movement is a a climate denier lobby group set up to oppose carbon pricing, based in Australia. On its website the group states that "our objective is to expose misrepresentations pushing a 'price on carbon dioxide.

    [1] In August 2011, the Scientific American magazine openly derided the group, describing it as "drawing from a deep history of denial and distortion" and relying on irrelevant facts while omitting pertinent ones.

    [2][3] Founded ostensibly by retirees John Smeed, an engineer, and Case Smit, a hygienist, the group launched its website in May, 2011.

    The group's patron is conservative Australian broadcaster Alan Jones.

    [4] The group blames global warming on anything but man-made emissions: variations in solar radiation, ocean-atmosphere oscillations, deviations in the Earth's orbit, and mountain-building continental drift and associated volcanic eruptions — all dismissed by mainstream science.[5] It warns of "climate police" having the right to intrude into people's lives in Australia,
25. greywarshark 25

    13 May 2019 at 9:26 pm

    It's interesting to see the high opinion about NZ living standards that this Kiwi chap living in Los Angeles has. I think that homosexual couples who don't want children take a simpler view, bypassing concerns about parenting, social welfare, education etc.

    "I'd like to say I will live in New Zealand again," he says. "It seems to be much more desirable and progressive than most other countries right now – especially the USA!"

    Ryan has come to feel that Kiwis can take the relatively high standard of living in New Zealand for granted.

    "Even though New Zealand is far from perfect, it really is the lucky land. Living in a city where an estimated 50,000 people are homeless, you see people struggling with mental health and no social support on a daily basis. I'm regularly asked by my American friends why I would choose to live here when I could be back home. It's so important to me that I never become desensitised to this reality and it makes me grateful for my Kiwi roots."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-traveller/112632518/the-truth-about-life-in-los-angeles-according-to-kiwi-expats

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