Open Mike 13/08/2018

100 comments on “Open Mike 13/08/2018 ”

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1. DH 1

   13 August 2018 at 6:23 am

   [lprent: Removed at commenter request. ]

   
   How would people like having this guy for a boss….

   “James Morris: Finest teachers needed to ensure students succeed”
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12105817

   As the saying goes, a good workman doesn’t blame his tools.
   
   • JanM 1.1

     13 August 2018 at 8:20 am

     Not quite sure what you’re trying to say in reference to this article, but I have a lot of sympathy with James Morris’s comments. We won’t get the best people going into teaching until we stop treating them like rubbish
     • mpledger 1.1.1

       13 August 2018 at 10:15 am

       How do you know that the best people aren’t going into teaching?
       • mac1 1.1.1.1

         13 August 2018 at 11:57 am

         There’s a probable fallacy there. The best people go for the best money. Teachers aren’t paid the best money. Therefore current teachers aren’t the best…….. pfffft! Teachers teach for other reasons than cash alone.

         I still remember my 1970 TTC tutor saying, as did one of the Greek philosophers, “”What? Teach and get paid, too?”

         There is a bottom line though. I haven’t taught at school for seven years now but in my time conditions and stupid make-work bureaucracy along with troubled students were more damaging to retention than salary alone.
     • DH 1.1.2

       13 August 2018 at 12:09 pm

       He seems to be criticising his own staff, among others, JanM. It could just be my reading of it but I gained the assumption he was saying we need better teachers than the ones we’ve got.

       I’d very surprised if anyone went into teaching with anything but good intentions. That some (many) appear not be living up to their potential is surely grounds to examine why rather than leap to judgement all the time.
       • JanM 1.1.2.1

         13 August 2018 at 12:55 pm

         I was teaching full time in the 80s when part of the neoliberal transition was to change people’s attitudes to teachers from one of respected professionals to virtually the servants of parents, beholden and answerable to them, and the gradual takeover in many cases of school trustees in the Tomorrows Schools model served to hasten that attitude. That has gradually eaten away at the pride of teachers in their profession, and an unwillingness of many to enter it at all. Lower income compared to other professional bodies has only been a part of it.
         • Doogs 1.1.2.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 6:56 pm

           Jan M you are so right. I was teaching through that time too, and an experience I had when Tomorrow’s Schools came in was the most traumatic of my career. As Principal of a small school in the Waikato, the School Committee became the Board of Trustees. They were anything but ‘trustees’. They did not learn, despite many episodes of training, that they were governors and not managers. They saw themselves with power and control, and as a consequence I suffered under their version of the truth. As teachers we have been sidelined, underpaid and denigrated for too long. I am still teaching, but only a day or two a week in a semi retired way.

           It isn’t too much to say that we are the future of our country. We are the ones who will nurture the leaders and followers of the future. Admittedly we only have them for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, but at primary school level at least, they look to us to guide their thinking, to inform their need for information and to give them a sense of culture and identity. This requires skill and understanding, among other things. In Norway teachers are highly trained and highly skilled. They, in turn, are highly respected and are left to do their best because the state and the people trust them to do the job they are tasked with. They are consequently well paid for their expertise.

           Until that happens in NZ we are screwed. And I don’t think Hipkins is skilled enough to guide us through to that conclusion.
       • KJT 1.1.2.2

         13 August 2018 at 9:30 pm

         My observations while Teaching were; Teachers that didn’t try to be good Teachers were rare.
         The ones that were not making the grade, were generally burnt out from stress caused by unrealistic expectations from above.
         I’ve long though that sabbaticals, to refocus and reflect, and something similar to the police PERF scheme, for those who have had enough, should be available for Teachers.
         I found the worst part was all the kids falling behind, and desperately needing help,that you hadn’t the time for, and couldn’t get any help for.
   • CD 1.2

     13 August 2018 at 12:06 pm

     I’m not sure what your point is with the “good tradesman” analogy. If there isn’t enough money to attract and retain good teachers, there’s not a lot that a “good tradesman” is going to be able to do. Are education leaders just meant to magic up some teachers?
   • Draco T Bastard 1.3

     13 August 2018 at 2:54 pm

     Having good teachers certainly helps.

     Eradicating poverty will help more.

     Stopping the ridiculing of teachers by the right-wing politicians of all parties that we’ve had for the last 30+ years will probably help get good teachers back.
2. Ed 2

   13 August 2018 at 7:22 am

   The judgement in America on Monsanto’s Roundup should make all councils and schools cease its use immediately.
   And supermarkets and garden stores should stop selling it today.
   Let’s apply some pressure for them to put people before profits.

   https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/11/one-mans-suffering-exposed-monsantos-secrets-to-the-world
   • Rosemary McDonald 2.1

     13 August 2018 at 8:23 am

     RNZ 10 March 2016 “Contractors told to wear masks when spraying.”. Sorry, on my phone so can’t provide link.

     This tells of a minor shitstorm in the Garden City when it transpired that contractors spraying Roundup were told NOT to wear safety gear so as not to alarm the locals.

     If memory serves, the Mayor was singularly unimpressed.

     Meriel Watts has an international reputation for her work trying to raise awareness of the hazards of the ubiquitous herbicide….I’ll hazard few here have heard of her.

     The agrochemical industry rules..take them on at your peril.

     The best we can hope for is to demand that those responsible for enforcement of rules and regulations around spraying actually do their job.

     Hah! In the case of the Waikato Regional Council…dream on.
     • Pingau 2.1.1

       14 August 2018 at 1:58 pm

       https://amp.rnz.co.nz/article/243ae6e8-0324-4a81-834c-6cd341dc85d9
       • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.1.1

         17 August 2018 at 4:58 pm

         Belated thanks for providing the link Pingau. Temporarily able to use a laptop, hence can check “reply”.

         It would be really handy to learn how to’link’ from my phone..I can send links via email… but not to here.

         Thanks again.
     • veutoviper 2.1.2

       14 August 2018 at 3:00 pm

       Here you are Rosemary

       https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/298594/contractors-told-to-wear-masks-when-spraying

       And for anyone interested, RNZ News has an impressive archive of articles going back years on glyphosate and its history, concerns etc. This includes many other similar local NZ articles relating to the use of Round Up and similar here in NZ.

       Here is a link to their archive on this subject:
       https://www.radionz.co.nz/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=glyphosate&commit=Search

       Oops, I now realise the link that Pingau put up also covers the 10 March 2016 article. But the archive link is well worth looking at.
   • weston 2.2

     13 August 2018 at 8:12 pm

     Come on Ed How the hell are we gonna control weeds like kikuyu an twitch to name a couple without roundup ??Im half serious
     • KJT 2.2.1

       13 August 2018 at 9:33 pm

       Steam!
       • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1

         13 August 2018 at 9:38 pm

         Shade!
         • weston 2.2.1.1.1

           14 August 2018 at 7:09 pm

           Yep shade works with most weeds if you can completely cover them with weed mat etc but that brings with it its own set of problems .What would be great would be a covering which would completely biodegrade in say three years …not sure its been invented yet though !!
           • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.1.1

             14 August 2018 at 7:18 pm

             Weston; plants that shade other plants were invented yonks ago 🙂
             I’ve used wild chervil to completely shade out couch. Native trees shade out gorse and broom, given time. Shade. It’s a thing!
       • weston 2.2.1.2

         14 August 2018 at 7:00 pm

         Newly emergent soft weeds i reckon would be gd to attack with steam kjt but wouldnt do much to the weeds i mentioned
     • sumsuch 2.2.2

       13 August 2018 at 11:56 pm

       The great left-winger and egotist (they go together) William Cobbett (the real founder of Hansard’s in the UK’s 40 years dictatorship that followed the French Revolution) maintained you could dig out couch-grass . He put a team of men to dig up 7 acres. Next year, just as bad.

       I use glyphosate all the time and would be reluctant to give it up. Always known the danger to smaller animals so I take seriously the WHO’s report. But, yet…
       • weston 2.2.2.1

         14 August 2018 at 7:36 pm

         yep hard to take an effective weapon out of ones arsenal i agree sumsuch and unfortunate having to contribute to the coffers of giant corporations also especially corporations that are known to be the most evil on the planet !!I could cope with the weeds ok in my immediate environment but its weeds like the really horrible Climbing Asparagus that to my mind justify using poisons like glyphosate .Not to do so spells disaster for many areas of bush and coastal lands alike .Alas its already too late in my view .
3. marty mars 3

   13 August 2018 at 7:49 am

   not good enough

   Forest & Bird’s report ‘Cleaning Up: Fixing Compliance, Monitoring & Enforcement in the dairy sector’ audited all of the country’s effluent compliance monitoring performances for the 2016-17 year.

   It found that councils across the country were inconsistent in how they monitored farms and were not fulfilling basic requirements, such as identifying all dairy farms within their region.

   “In Forest & Bird’s view, these poorly performing councils do not take their dairy sector compliance, monitoring and enforcement obligations seriously, and will need some encouragement to improve their performance,” it said.

   It found that three-quarters of New Zealand’s dairy farms were in eight regions that did not monitor 100 per cent of their farms. Last year, around 5000 farms were not monitored for dairy effluent compliance.

   “This almost certainly means that many instances of serious non-compliance are likely to have gone undetected,” the report said.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/106175169/waikato-council-slams-forest–bird-over-effluent-report–but-admits-it-made-the-error

   yes and as for Waikato Regional Council – what a useless bunch – they gave wrong OIA info and then moan about how hard it is.

   It found there were at least nine Waikato farms found to be seriously non-compliant in 2016-17 which had not been monitored for 10 years or more…

   … However, Waikato Regional Council farming services manager Nicole Botherway​ said inspecting every Waikato dairy farm was not practical.

   “It’s unrealistic to burden our ratepayers with the massive four-fold expense of extra staff and resources just because they live in a region with the most dairy farms in the country.”
   • dV 3.1

     13 August 2018 at 8:09 am

     re cost of testing the farms for compliance.
     I have some sympathy for the general rate payer,
     So why don’t the councils charge a fee for the test.
     • Jimmy 3.1.1

       13 August 2018 at 11:54 am

       Taranaki councils charge $300 to the farm owner for inspection, and then Fonterra charge another $300 per farm on what is essentially the same inspection.
       So a double inspection too keep everyone happy.
       • dV 3.1.1.1

         13 August 2018 at 1:12 pm

         Thankx Jimmy
         Do Fonterra inspect and charge in other areas too?
         • Jimmy 3.1.1.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 2:08 pm

           Yes Fonterra inspect Dairy Sheds (Buliding standard, environmental and dairy hygiene).
           They also inspect dairy farm records (supplemental feeds, nitrogen use, antibiotic and drug use, stock recording methods etc).
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 3:00 pm

             They also inspect dairy farm records (supplemental feeds, nitrogen use, antibiotic and drug use, stock recording methods etc).

             One does wonder just how accurate those records are.
             • RuralGuy …

               13 August 2018 at 7:25 pm

               If you only knew. Fonterra have probably got the most robust inspection and compliance regime in the country. They stopped collecting milk on 70+ farms last year because the farmers hadn’t met their effluent and waterway fencing rules.

               Fonterra make the councils and MPI look like amateurs.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 14 August 2018 at 7:26 pm

                 “Fonterra make the councils and MPI look like amateurs.”

                 And of course MPI were totally on top of mycoplasma bovis – not. They are amateurs. Doesn’t make Fonterra infallible though – only takes one slip in a processing chain and there’s hell to pay.
               • Robert Guyton …

                 14 August 2018 at 7:34 pm

                 So they should; it’s their business!
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

       13 August 2018 at 2:59 pm

       Seems reasonable – user pays and all that.
       • Jimmy 3.1.2.1

         13 August 2018 at 5:03 pm

         Can’t argue with any of that.
   • BM 3.2

     13 August 2018 at 8:15 am

     However, Waikato Regional Council farming services manager Nicole Botherway said inspecting every Waikato dairy farm was not practical.

     That’s hardly surprising as they stopped monitoring with helicopters.
     Apparently, it was stressing out farmers.

     https://www.waikatoregion.govt.nz/community/whats-happening/news/media-releases-archived/helicopters-grounded-for-now-but-monitoring-to-continue/

     Good news though, the council has just voted to reintroduce aerial monitoring.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/105057893/Waikato-Regional-Council-vote-to-return-to-aerial-monitoring-of-dairy-farms
     • JanM 3.2.1

       13 August 2018 at 8:27 am

       No good reason why they should be stressed if they are compliant. That’s like turning off the burglar alarms in case the burglar gets distressed by them!
       • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.1.1

         13 August 2018 at 9:03 am

         It was the noise of the helicopters that was causing stress… in both man and beast.

         Being buzzed by a helicopter is no fun at all…even less fun when the helicopter is flying very low alongside and over a residential property spraying a hazardous substance.

         In our case, the Waikato Regional Council refused to investigate or enforce the Standard. At the same time our home and property was being harassed and contaminated by a spraying helicopter…the WRC was using helicopters to conduct a pantomime monitoring of dairy effluent management.

         We tried to find out if our rates were being used to pay for this monitoring to the same helicopter company that chemically trespassed our property. No go, as this was ‘commercially sensitive’ information.

         “Corruption” is a word not lightly used….but it may be appropriate here.
         • JanM 3.2.1.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 11:24 am

           “Even less fun when the helicopter is flying very low alongside and over a residential property spraying a hazardous substance”.
           Off the topic a bit, don’t you think?
           • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.1.1.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 12:54 pm

             You think?

             Illegal dairy effluent disposal and illegal use of agrichemicals. Both are the responsibility of the Regional Councils to monitor and enforce. In both areas of responsibility the WRC has a dismal record. It just so happens that the issue our family had with the aerial application of agrichemicals was very probably made worse by the WRC being compromised by contracting the same helicopter companies to do the effluent monitoring that they were legally obligated to ensre were applying agrichemicals in the required manner.

             As other commenters have noted, Regional Councils are heavily populated by farming folk who seem obligated to protect their own.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               13 August 2018 at 3:04 pm

               It just so happens that the issue our family had with the aerial application of agrichemicals was very probably made worse by the WRC being compromised by contracting the same helicopter companies to do the effluent monitoring that they were legally obligated to ensre were applying agrichemicals in the required manner.

               Which is why councils should do this stuff themselves rather than get private contractors.
       • BM 3.2.1.2

         13 August 2018 at 9:09 am

         I know, it was complete bollocks.

         But when you’ve got a council stacked with farmers, they’re going to vote for their best interests.

         This is where the government has to set policy and regulation.
         • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.2.1

           13 August 2018 at 3:04 pm

           And bring in decent jail terms for corruption.
       • corodale 3.2.1.3

         13 August 2018 at 10:08 am

         There will be plenty of farmers in their 60’s who they will turn a blind eye on, to let them retire in peace over the next few years, takes time.
         • JanM 3.2.1.3.1

           13 August 2018 at 11:26 am

           In other words they are letting their mates off the hook at high cost to the rest of us – no surprises there!
           • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.3.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 3:05 pm

             +111
         • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.3.2

           13 August 2018 at 3:06 pm

           They can retire in peace after they’ve done their jail term and had everything taken from them under the Proceeds of crime act.
       • bwaghorn 3.2.1.4

         13 August 2018 at 11:55 am

         Lefties calling for a big brother approach. !!!!
         • JanM 3.2.1.4.1

           13 August 2018 at 12:57 pm

           Mmmm – remember that next time you need a polceman!
         • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.4.2

           13 August 2018 at 3:07 pm

           Nope.

           Just recognising that we need regulations and that those regulations need to be enforced.
         • cleangreen 3.2.1.4.3

           13 August 2018 at 7:31 pm

           bwaghorne;

           And haul the national party into the dock to answer their charges of ‘turning a blind eye for the nine years allowing dirty dairying’ as they ficticiously made us into “A rockstar economy”
           • Stuart Munro 3.2.1.4.3.1

             13 August 2018 at 8:30 pm

             +100
     • Ad 3.2.2

       13 August 2018 at 8:30 am

       Fish and Game used drones in the Hawkes Bay, with the footage used to useful effect. Well time regional councils did the same as a matter of course.
       • bwaghorn 3.2.2.1

         13 August 2018 at 11:59 am

         I read an interesting coment on fish games blind eye turning to the thousands and thousands of plastic shotgun waddings that must be shot into nz s water ways the other day .
         Yeh who is with out sin and all that shit .
         • Ad 3.2.2.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 12:16 pm

           Not sure where your comment is sourced from, but here’s an actual news article from today citing an upcoming court case, ind in particular Fish and Game using drones to show evidence of consent breaches – using drones.

           https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363942/businessman-challenges-hawke-s-bay-council-on-damaging-feedlots
           • bwaghorn 3.2.2.1.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 12:28 pm

             As i said just a comment i read online . But it would be fact if,your ever in a f and g meeting ask them what they are doing about the huge amount of plastic shotgun shooting would put into the environment.
             If they clean up the worst farming practises I’m all for it but don’t think for one minute it is coming from anything more than self interest with fish and game .
             These people release trout into rivers .trout decimate native species. (That bits just to illustrate that they are not eco warriors)
   • Draco T Bastard 3.3

     13 August 2018 at 2:58 pm

     However, Waikato Regional Council farming services manager Nicole Botherway​ said inspecting every Waikato dairy farm was not practical.

     Of course it’s practical – hire more people and get them well trained in the job.

     Of course, that will tend to reduce unemployment and we may see wages rising which will inevitably have the capitalists that don’t like paying wages whinging as well as the farmers whinging from being found to have broken the law.
     • tc 3.3.1

       13 August 2018 at 3:52 pm

       +100 yes compliance seems to be looking the other way a lot lately.

       WDC also seem oblivious to what drainage plans are for by letting people do as they please. Then there’s the waterways issues all of their own making like effluent in whaingaroa harbour.
     • Robert Guyton 3.3.2

       13 August 2018 at 7:51 pm

       ” hire more people” – Thus increasing the rates… just saying’…
       • Pat 3.3.2.1

         13 August 2018 at 8:14 pm

         conundrum Robert?
         • Robert Guyton 3.3.2.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 9:00 pm

           At every turn, Pat. There are though, ways; South Port etc: invest wisely to lighten ratepayer’s (of which I am one) load 🙂
           • Pat 3.3.2.1.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 9:14 pm

             a thankless task
             • Robert Guyton …

               13 August 2018 at 9:27 pm

               Well, we pat each other on the back…Pat.
               • Pat …

                 13 August 2018 at 9:30 pm

                 sometimes twice
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   13 August 2018 at 9:32 pm

                   Someone’s gotta do it!
       • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2.2

         14 August 2018 at 1:01 am

         Life isn’t free despite what the RWNJs like to tell everybody.
     • Hongi Ika 3.3.3

       14 August 2018 at 7:18 pm

       Waikato Regional Council need to get out of the Office and sort out this problem, prosecute if necessary ?
4. marty mars 4

   13 August 2018 at 8:21 am

   Good news

   “The New Zealand Nursing Organisation (NZNO) have lodged a Kaupapa Inquiry Claim into pay disparity of Māori nurses which will be heard by the Waitangi Tribunal in October.

   NZNO Kaiwhakahaere Kerry Nuku says the crown has breached its obligations to Māori in the health system under the Treaty of Waitangi.”

   http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/regional/maori-nurses-claim-on-pay-disparity-gets-tribunal-hearing
   • Gosman 4.1

     13 August 2018 at 9:01 am

     Isn’t this a factor of more Maori being involved in community nursing rather than the DHB’s?
   • Carolyn_Nth 4.2

     13 August 2018 at 9:12 am

     Good news, marty. Hope they are successful.
5. Kay 5

   13 August 2018 at 9:17 am

   For once, politicians have managed to unite a community.
   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363927/wellington-bus-passengers-may-refuse-to-pay-fares-in-protest-at-new-service

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/106209854/standing-room-only-at-fiery-meeting-as-wellingtonians-speak-out-on-capitals-buses

   It was probably just as well this meeting wasn’t one for the Councillors to say their piece- just listen- with the strength of feeling in the room last night I don’t think Chris Laidlaw would’ve stood a chance, but at least he had the guts to show and I really hope he was squirming. I personally love the idea of going on a fare strike.
   • Rosemary McDonald 5.1

     13 August 2018 at 9:21 am

     Was thinking of you Kay while listening to that on Natraf this morning… were you at the meeting?

     I think the heroine of the night was the bus driver who spoke up and apologized.
     • mpledger 5.1.1

       13 August 2018 at 10:39 am

       I think it came across very clearly that their was accessibility issues for a large number of people. I think the main problem was that it was hard to get across the scale of the problem – it came across as individuals having problems unique to themselves but it really is on a much bigger scale than that.

       Buses are not just overcrowded but people are packed in really tightly, sardine tightly, and the drivers are in a tough position – overload the buses (which they seriously are) or leave people at stops when they have already been waiting 30, 40 or 50 minutes. And the people who check the buses for safety are nowhere to be seen even though there are continuous complaints about safety and overloading.

       My driver on Friday looked absolutely shattered as we had a full bus for about 2/3 of the route – and that was before peak time. Driving with a full bus, a long way, (e.g. people have to exit the back door to let other people off and then get back on again because there was no other way to make room) requires a really high level of vigilance over a long period of time – and that level of vigilance takes a toll day-in/day-out over a long working day. The bus driver was doing clumsy things that were starting to get a bit risky and it’s not too hard to see that low risk things turning to high risk things as the drivers get worn down even more.
       • veutoviper 5.1.1.1

         13 August 2018 at 2:10 pm

         Hi mpledger.

         Thanks for this information. As mentioned in my reply to Kay at 5.1.2.1 below, I would really appreciate any info you recall on what was said if anything at the meeting re the 29 services to/from island Bay via Owhiro Bay/Brooklyn and via Southgate/Newtown. TIA.
         • mpledger 5.1.1.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 2:25 pm

           I don’t remember any one particularly mentioning that route but there was a sticker wall where people could put up specific complaints. There were going to be collated and given to the WRC but they might be available to everyone.
           • veutoviper 5.1.1.1.1.1

             13 August 2018 at 4:06 pm

             Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate it. I got the impression the meeting probably focused more on the eastern suburbs issues – eg having to change buses to get to the hospital etc, late/no show buses etc.

             Each area seems to have their own specific problems, so we are putting together a collation of issues in our area and will be getting this to Metlink, Paul Eagle, WRC and WCC in the very near future. It may be that we should set up a local meeting to discuss our local issues. We are already in contact with Metlink in a co-operative, non-aggressive manner and so far, we seem to be making some headway/on the same wavelength with them at least on some issues, but time will tell.
     • Kay 5.1.2

       13 August 2018 at 10:51 am

       I was there for most of it Rosemary. As a result of a discussion with a woman there about the decimation of buses at that hour back to my suburb I was offered a lift home so couldn’t turn down the offer! So I missed the latter bit with the bus driver and fare strike proposal but caught up with them on Morning Report.

       Interesting to observe that every time a driver got up to speak they were loudly applauded. One noticeable thing throughout this farce is with very few exceptions, no one is blaming the drivers.

       I’m looking forward to the meeting on the 23rd and hearing the GWRC spin on this. And audience reaction!
       • veutoviper 5.1.2.1

         13 August 2018 at 2:05 pm

         Thanks for that Kay. I was not able to get there yesterday as I found out about the meeting too late.

         I would be really interested in any points raised at the meeting about the Island Bay services, primarily the No 29 services (via Owhiro Bay and Brooklyn OTOH and via Southgate and Newtown on the other hand), as I and others are very affected by the changes to these and we are in contact with Metlink etc on these issues.

         Kara Lipski was also interviewed by Jesse Mulligan this afternoon and mentioned Island Bay but in passing only. A good interview. If you missed it, here is the link – https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018657859/wellington-bus-passengers-revolt

         If you – or mpledger – can help by letting me know anything you heard that would be really helpful.

         PS – Is the next meeting on Aug 23 or 26?
         • Kay 5.1.2.1.1

           13 August 2018 at 5:20 pm

           @ VV Oops apologies, it’s Sunday the 26th. St Pats College, but I’ve seen both 2 and 3pm mentioned so got to confirm that.

           During the open mike part certain bus routes were mentioned, being a Newtown meeting the majority of the comments seemed to refer to the Southern suburb routes. A fair bit got said about Houghton Bay, tbh the 29 probably was but I wasn’t concentrating that much, they’re not routes I ever use so it didn’t really register. My takeaway from it was a public expression of all the angry emails, phone calls, official complaints and posts/blogs/tweets that have been flying around for the past few weeks.

           I’ve been out this avo so missed the interview- thanks for the link, will listen shortly 🙂
           • veutoviper 5.1.2.1.1.1

             14 August 2018 at 11:31 am

             Cheers Kay. I appreciate that info.
         • OnceWasTim 5.1.2.1.2

           13 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

           how do @veuto.
           Route 29 is a shocker (From what I hear, alongside 23). My daughters friend now has 3 buses (i.e. 2 exchanges) to get where she wants to go whereas the old Houghton Bay served many people well.

           By the way….I did reply to you the other day (I think re Ponter) OM 10th or 11th.

           Once again, probably the best thing for GWRC to do would be to revert ot old route system, but that would be an admission of complete failure.

           I tried to find out whether the Tramways Union, or ‘old hand’ drivers were consulted before, and while this new system was being designed – but to no avail.
           The more I hear about this farce, the more I despair. And frankly the more surprised I am at Ponter. (Laidlaw you could make allowances for). It’s almost like a case study on how politicians and administration lose touch with reality.

           Routes 29 and 23 are a total fuckup, route 18 is a complete fuckup, and route 20 ……..

           I think some OIAs are in order too
           • veutoviper 5.1.2.1.2.1

             14 August 2018 at 11:56 am

             Thanks OWT – and my apologies for not replying to your earlier reply to me re Daran Ponter. Things are a bit messy at the moment – I am sure that you know that ‘feast or fame’ situation where you have too much or too little on your plate and never a nice balance! C’est la vie.

             I actually heard Ponter on Afternoons with Jesse Mulligan on RNZ about 16/17 July and thought he sounded reasonably sensible and clued up –
             https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/361929/wellington-bus-network-changes-cause-lengthy-delays-for-some
             Link to the actual recording of the interview is at the bottom of the article.

             In hindsight I think he was absolutely right when he was reported the next day as saying that a further six months’ was needed to get things sorted before the changes were implemented.
             https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/362028/regional-council-says-revised-capital-bus-service-will-improve

             Re reverting to the old system, I doubt that is possible due to legalities however.

             It has actually crossed my mind as to whether Tranzit will last the distance financially. They must have spent a fortune on the new buses etc but I have heard on the grapevine that the costs associated with bringing in drivers from outside Wellington and covering their accommodation costs etc have been astronomical and unplanned …

             My/our focus is on the other side of the South Coast to Houghton Bay – ie SW Island Bay, Owhiro Bay, Frobisher St area, Happy Valley. Our problems are slightly different to Houghton Bay etc so there could be some merit to keeping them separate – and as I said, Metlink has been quite cooperative to date particularly as one of the problems is something they want themselves so we are onside on that issue.
6. Andre 6

   13 August 2018 at 10:18 am

   “the best people” seem to be awfully fond of their recording devices. Cohen. Omarosa. How many more of them are still doing it?

   https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/12/politics/omarosa-manigault-newman-john-kelly/index.html

   Question for the day: if they really are out to get you, is it still paranoia?
7. Andre 7

   13 August 2018 at 10:43 am

   About that white supremacist rally on their orange idol’s lawn …

   https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/protesters-outnumber-nazis-unite-the-right-ii-washington-dc_us_5b7042efe4b0bdd0620a179a

   Maybe they’re starting to get a glimmering of what a bunch of pathetic losers they are.
   • marty mars 7.1

     13 August 2018 at 2:11 pm

     8lol loving it
8. Ad 8

   13 August 2018 at 11:12 am

   Pretty heartening to see the US white nationalists significantly outnumbered by the counterprotesters.

   So far all peaceful.

   https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/12/us/unite-the-right-charlottesville-anniversary/index.html
   • Andre 8.1

     13 August 2018 at 12:38 pm

     Might be staying peaceful coz it looks like there’s around 10 cops for every one of the precious white snowflakes.
9. esoteric pineapples 9

   13 August 2018 at 11:32 am

   This is what you get when you start demanding people get censored. It’s always the left who have the most to fear from censorship because power is usually held in the hands of the monied powerful and they will always protect their own interests first

   “From Alex Jones to alleged Russian trolls, major internet companies are increasingly policing content on their platforms. Max Blumenthal of the Grayzone Project says the partnership between Facebook and the Atlantic Council highlights “the merger of the national security state and Silicon Valley.”

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJUjSBXU5iY&feature=share
10. AsleepWhileWalking 10

    13 August 2018 at 3:39 pm

    Homeless women just a piece of meat

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12105982

    Tinder to get temporary accommodation because they have no other options. Reports also suggest this practice isn’t limited to women.

    Due to the hidden nature and often ill-defined boundaries of survival sex, it is difficult to regulate and therefore almost impossible to offer protection for women. This places them in highly precarious situations. Until the structural issues in our housing market are addressed, this is unlikely to change.
11. ianmac 11

    13 August 2018 at 3:40 pm

    TOP is still alive.
    From Gareth:
    “…I’m pleased to say that discussions re the future of TOP are progressing well. As part of the groundwork for TOP to continue the Board has amended the party rules in order to better position the Party in its preparation for the 2020 election….”
    • McFlock 11.1

      13 August 2018 at 5:02 pm

      lol

      does that mean the party funder has greater say over policy and strategy, or less?
    • Hongi Ika 11.2

      14 August 2018 at 7:21 pm

      Potential coalition partner for National and they have already done the groundwork at the last Election ?
12. adam 12

    13 August 2018 at 4:05 pm

    Yemen

    Still

    Getting

    Bombed

    too soon?

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/saudi-bus-bombing-marks-a-new-low-in-yemen-20180810-p4zwsm.html
13. Carolyn_Nth 13

    13 August 2018 at 4:59 pm

    Lisa Owen to replace John Campbell on Checkpoint

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363990/lisa-owen-to-replace-john-campbell-on-checkpoint
    • Jilly Bee 13.1

      13 August 2018 at 5:20 pm

      Interesting appointment indeed. I just hope Lisa learns to ‘keep it zipped sweetie’ at times and lets her interviewees have a fair say. Must admit I was impressed by Simon Shepherd’s interview with Grant Robertson on The Nation this last weekend.
14. cleangreen 14

    13 August 2018 at 7:39 pm

    National Government while in power were most of the time wanting to sell NZ to the lowest bidder without a care.

    Labour is right by encouraging NZ made industries to come back again.

    We need for example to begin producing wolllen carpets again as we lost ournmillls to China and India during the gosmans own liberalist Ntional government selloff.

    Woolen carpets do not cause global pollution as the plastic carpets we only make here now so when we throw the plastic carpets away guess where they go and how long it takes to break those plastic carpets down again?

    250 years at least we are told it takes to break down the ‘nylon’ carpets and no-one has even considered this as the new threat to our environment, as all plastic and nylon must be stopped now before we are all screwed. Just look at what is inside plastic carpets that you all buy now because you dont have any large NZ carpet manufacturers now.

    http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/03/22/the-toxic-dangers-of-carpetingare-the-carpets-in-your-home-or-office-a-health-hazard.htm

    The Toxic Dangers of Carpeting:Are the Carpets in Your Home or Office a Health Hazard?
    by SixWise.com

    Walking across your soft, wall-to-wall carpet with bare feet may seem pleasant enough, and we won’t deny that it does feel cozy, but there are some unpleasant and downright dangerous things about carpeting that deserve attention.

    In America, we love wall-to-wall carpeting–in fact, according to the Carpet and Rug Institute more than two-thirds of American floors have them–despite the fact that they contain toxic byproducts that are released into our homes and even inhaled and absorbed into our bodies.

    Carpet Samples

    It looks innocent enough, but carpets are made from synthetic fibers that have been treated with toxic chemicals that outgas into your home.

    Carpets Emit Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) in Your Home

    Almost all carpet is made from synthetic fibers and those fibers have been treated with synthetic chemicals that “outgas” into your home. Here’s a list of some carpet “ingredients”:

    Petroleum byproducts and synthetics (polypropylene, nylon, acrylic)
    Soil and stain repellents
    Vinyl or latex
    PVC
    Urethane
    Antistatic sprays
    Artificial dyes
    Antimicrobial treatments
    After being exposed to these chemicals and breathing them in or absorbing them through the skin, some people may feel symptoms such as headache, dizziness or nausea right away.

    But often times, no symptoms are felt. In the long-term, however, no one knows for certain what the effects of these chemicals may be. The EPA has said that no cause-and-effect relationship between carpet emissions and health problems has been proven. However, says Mark Gold from Holistic Healing, “Please pay attention to this warning: Sucking down toxic chemicals may seem okay now, but you may pay a very heavy price in the future.”

    For instance, carpets may contain:

    Known carcinogens such as p-Dichlorobenzene. These chemicals may also cause hallucinations, nerve damage and respiratory illness in humans.

    4-PC, the chemical that gives carpets their distinctive “new carpet smell” and is associated with eye, nose and upper respiratory problems.

    Mothproofing chemicals, which contain naphthalene.

    Fire retardants with PBDEs, which may cause damage to thyroid, immune system and brain development functions in humans.
15. Eco Maori 15

    14 August 2018 at 7:55 am

    Good morning The AM Show even if 5% of people brought elictric car’s that’s thousand of cars on the road our oil
    Import bill will come down. Last year the number was 2% reliability is not a problem if you buy new the battery.s last at least 8 years so no problem there sell it and buy a new one that’s what people do If they can afford it
    The left leaning tangata want Aotearoa to be the best place on Papatuanukue to raise all Mokopunas not matter whom they are we are all humans.
    Veronica The Celine Dion show starting
    singer is a very good singer Amanda I think you will go to the concert Ka pai
    Ka kite ano. P.S I’m chasing our Mokopunas around at the minute
16. Eco Maori 16

    14 August 2018 at 11:08 am

    The Free Speech distraction is not really a big issues people are just using the topic to distract us from The real issues and that is privacy rights if big brother can snop into everyone electronica data that gives. To much power to the 00.1%,to do nasty things to the common tangata. And from what I see it’s not like we can trust the 00.1% to do the correct things with that power.
    One just has to look at how some multi national companies lie there, – – – – off to protect the profits over humanity health the link is Below Ka kite ano

    Google records your location even when you tell it not to p.S most people have the Internet to voice there opinions and if you get ignored well your views on reality don’t fit with the tangata of 2018
17. Eco Maori 17

    14 August 2018 at 11:37 am

    Google records your location even when you tell it not to this is the link to the post above Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/13/google-location-tracking-android-iphone-mobile
18. Eco Maori 18

    14 August 2018 at 12:33 pm

    Here we go when service are included in the exporters importers market data the USA has a surplus with the Papatuanukue of 1.4 trillion so what are some of these services mone exchange face book Google so us see the USA is the wealthiest country on Papatuanukue they have not got there from losing in world trade its convenient to leave service data out of the stats link below Ka kite ano
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/13/is-free-trade-always-the-answer
    Ana to kai
19. Eco Maori 19

    14 August 2018 at 7:00 pm

    Good evening Newshub beeb busy with my favourite charity some music link is Below

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM

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