Open Mike 13/09/2018

53 comments on “Open Mike 13/09/2018 ”

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1. Ed 1

   13 September 2018 at 6:14 am

   Rachel Stewart highlights a vital issue by pointing to an important article.
   Our farming is NOT sustainable.

   She says

   Every New Zealander should read this. Why? To fully grasp how deeply our economy is built on myriad products that directly hurt others, our land, and our waterways. Farming must change, or it will be taken out of our hands.

   The article she refers to is entitled ‘Precious rock New Zealand is accused of stealing from the Sahara’
   

   An excerpt.

   The cycle that underpins New Zealand’s economy starts with a town in the desert, shielded by a minefield. A white, dusty rock is stripped from the earth and put on a conveyor belt, which rumbles slowly across the Sahara – flat, desolate and silent – for 100km. It leaves a cloud of dust so vast it can be seen from satellites, etching a scar across Northern Africa.

   When it reaches port, the rocks topple off the belt and are loaded onto trucks, which are driven to awaiting cargo ships. They sail a tedious route south, ducking beneath the horn of South America to avoid nations that may confiscate the cargo.

   The ships arrive at their destination: It could be Bluff, Dunedin, Lyttelton, Napier, or Tauranga, depending on who is buying the cargo. The rock is driven to a factory and blended with other rocks, mixed with sulfuric acid, and compressed into small, white balls. The balls are dropped with precision from planes over the countryside and bleed into the soil, releasing nutrients into plants, which are eaten by sheep and cows, which are eaten by us.

   The scale of the operation is enormous. The conveyor belt is the longest in the world, as is the minefield protecting it.

   ……If you are a farmer in New Zealand and you use Superphosphate fertiliser, it is likely the raw materials came from the western side of the world’s longest minefield, and made the long, slow journey to the sea on the world’s longest conveyor belt.

   When it arrives in New Zealand, records will say the phosphate came from Morocco, but the many thousands of people in Algerian refugee camps would say it was stolen from them.

   “New Zealand farmers are the only clients in the whole world of the Moroccan plunder of Western Sahara,” says Erik Hagen of Western Saharan Resource Watch, an NGO that monitors trade from the region.

   “New Zealand stands alone now as the main funder of the illegal occupation… They are buying stolen goods.”
   • mauī 1.1

     13 September 2018 at 9:49 am

     Kia ora Ed. Nga mihi maui.
   • Gabby 1.2

     13 September 2018 at 10:56 am

     Isn’t the area under Moroccan control?
     • McFlock 1.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 12:03 pm

       part of the problem, that is.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   13 September 2018 at 6:21 am

   Tracey Watkin: “The lesson is that, unless Labour policies are agreed in coalition negotiations and tied down in Ardern’s speech from the throne, it shouldn’t be assumed they are Government policy.”
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/107025942/why-national-insists-on-calling-jacinda-ardern-weak

   “Labour ministers seem to have been painfully slow to learn that lesson, presenting as policy decisions that have not been signed off by Peters. And Peters is the ultimate showman, timing those lessons for maximum effect. But it’s Ardern who has had to pay the price by having to turn the other cheek to Peters’ gamesmanship and opportunism.”

   “Peters jumped down the throat of reporters who questioned on Wednesday whether Labour’s latest sacrifice might be the multi employer agreements specified under its industrial relations reforms – but, notably, he also refused to commit to supporting them. Stuff has been told that NZ First has drafted changes to the legislation for when it comes back before the House. The end game appears to be either leverage, or oxygen, or kudos from the business sector for moderating Labour’s union base – or at least cultivating that perception.”

   So we have Labour ministers allowed to operate like loose cannons and announce policies that haven’t actually been agreed to by NZF, giving Winston the opportunity to market his brand as superior. Does such political brand differentiation really work to the advantage of either party? Not at present. Makes more sense in a suitable part of the electoral cycle: 2020.
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     13 September 2018 at 7:25 am

     There’s also this: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/366312/nz-first-pull-support-for-labour-led-initiatives-at-last-minute

     “The government was forced to halt a planned announcement about its Crown/Māori Relations portfolio after New Zealand First raised last minute objections. It’s the latest in a string of incidents where New Zealand First has pulled its support for Labour-led initiatives at the 11th hour.”

     “Media were briefed and invited to attend an announcement by Crown/Māori Relations Minister Kelvin Davis and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Monday, where the new agency was set to be unveiled following sign-off at Cabinet. But Ms Ardern and Mr Davis had to roll back the announcement after NZ First refused to support it.”

     That must be the fourth or fifth such instance in recent times! “It’s understood the lines of communication between Labour and NZ First are still not clear almost one year into the coalition arrangement. RNZ has been told the two parties are at odds over whether NZ First was properly consulted over such policies.”

     So, after a year in government, when the coalition ought to be shifting into second gear at least, if not third, it seems instead intent on proving that the training wheels have yet to be removed!! Leadership now essential. Do it.
     • Enough is Enough 2.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 12:56 pm

       I agree completely.

       There appears to be a complete lack of leadership and communication between the partners. There is just this constant stream of missteps that should be getting cleared up behind closed doors, not in the media.

       National doesn’t have to do anything at the moment as the sloppy management of this government is getting splashed all over the media on a daily basis.

       Jacinda is a great on screen communicator but she needs to get the back of house management sorted
   • Gabby 2.2

     13 September 2018 at 11:02 am

     Kelv must’ve forgotten to check in with El Pomposo, Prince of the Provinces.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 12:51 pm

       You got it. Not only that, his boss forgot to check it was okay with His Pomposity’s boss. Almost like deliberately, as if playing a game called `let’s forget we’re supposed to be govt awhile – more fun competing with NZF than the Nats’…
3. Jenny 3

   13 September 2018 at 6:45 am

   Is the US being run by a death cult?

   As Hurricane Florence bears down on the US Atlantic coast, residents would not be comforted to know that the persecution of immigrants has been put above their safety….

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/107038928/donald-trump-moved-fema-funds-to-ice-at-start-of-hurricane-season

   And as well as being soft on fascism and against public health care, the Trump administration; has rolled back regulation of Coal, of asbestos, of air quality, of automatic weapons….. and….. and…. nuclear weapons…..

   https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/white-house-hobbles-nuclear-weapons-safety-agency/
   • Ed 3.1

     13 September 2018 at 7:00 am

     Scary times
     • Adrian Thornton 3.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:41 am

       Scary times…you betcha, here is the warmongering no conservative John Bolton sounding like a villain straight out a 1980’s Robocop movie, threatening the International Criminal Court and it’s judges and anyone who assists them…

       Looks like the US might be going year zero..

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOEcILa8cw8&t=147s

       Unfortunately we probably don’t get to see all the villains get their justice at the end.

       John S. Hall – America Kicks Ass

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLzClpc12A
   • Sabine 3.2

     13 September 2018 at 11:07 am

     there are almost 8 billion people on this planet. Literally 4 billion give or take a few millions to many.

     Its not a death cult, its an extermination cult by proxy. It kills the old, the sick, the ailing, the infirm first by refusing to fund health care and aged care and disabled care. It kills the young ones by refusing to vaccinate on grounds of what ever. It kills the women by not funding female centric health care, it kills them pregnant, in child birth, it kills the mothers or the babies and sometimes both.
     It kills the men by removing any rule, any legislation that would make work safe, that would prevent death through accidents, toxic waste etc.
     it kills all without difference by refusing to send aid to disaster areas, it will kill the people in hospitals by not fixing the electricity net, by not cleaning the water ways, by not fixing the infra structure needed to bring in aid after a natural disaster.
     Of course it will kill the poor first. The poor people of color will die before the poor white people die. But die they will.

     the rich, the monied, the connected, the pundit class, the political class, the technocrats have known at least since the Bush 2nd years that climate change is coming, and with it rising sea levels, floods, destruction of habitat and arable land and with it migration.

     It is about time to take of the blinders and stop believing that we can still stop this. We can’t. Its well underway. And our governments – any and all – know this, and they also know that mass migration and poverty are what awaits us. And the US is happy to let die all those the ruling class believe are surplus, they are happy for the preachers to screech stay at home, the righteous will be saved – after all are n’t they all righteous?

     And we have had the same mindset here for the last years under National. So they are poor? Thems lazy buggers. So the child is poor and hungry? Should have choose better parents. So they don’t have a house? Should get another job. So they aren’t healthy? Must have been something they done. Right?

     There are too many humans on this planet, The ruling class and their technocrats know this, and we – the unwashed masses – are surplus to requirement. We will not be saved, we will not be educated, we will not be considered of importance. And they don’t hide it. Time to stop acting surprised.
     • Bill 3.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 11:21 am

       It is about time to take of the blinders and stop believing that we can still stop this.

       Erm. But we can. An on-going 10% (or whatever it takes to stay within the known global carbon budget) annual cut in fossil consumption stops it. It might not leave us sitting below 2 degrees. But it might.

       Why don’t you hassle the crap out of your local MP and demand they insist that government AGW policy gets written wholly off the back of science, instead of bent to accommodate economics?

       And sure, we may already have passed a tipping point that takes the “anthropogenic” out of the global warming equation. Who knows? Maybe that possibility could feed into an unwavering insistence that we do what needs done no matter what?
       • Sabine 3.2.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 11:46 am

         We can also admit that we are too many on this planet. Capacity is reached, what now. We can admit that our governments world wide do not really care about those that it deems surplus. Namely the very poor, the very old, etc. You get the drift.
         We can admit that our government short funds anything that would keep us alive, could make life better and maybe even more sustainable but generally does little more then pay lip service. Again, because they – our elected overlords – care little about our survival, after all theirs is assured.

         As for what i do, whom i write to, how i live etc. You know nothing and you should not assume.

         Non of us is wrong, and i am not saying it is too late, that is only what you hear. I say that there are to many humans on this planet. There are too many cars on this planet. To many MacMansions that house no one. Too much shit that people have because we need growth. Lol. And i say that non of that is gonna change anytime soon, unless we give up on the myth that the next generation needs it better then we had. We are at the highest living standard literally since ages ago and people still complain that they don’t have enough .We pull fucking boats across the middle of the country to go water skiing in a lake hundreds of kilometers from home, that is how fucked up we are. We inject our self with poison to be young for ever. We pretend to have it all with an empty fridge at home and no electricity. We buy on tick and then complain that we own nothing.

         Yeah, right lets tell the poor that they can’t have it all, in fact what little they have they should give it up;, that they should not aspire to get out of the muck. . Cause it ain’t our ruling classes and their enablers that are gonna give up the tiniest sliver of their excesses.

         You want change? Start with giving up hope that those task to know better actually know better.
4. Ffloyd 4

   13 September 2018 at 7:12 am

   Poor Winston. Trying to stay relevant. Don’t think much of his methods. Everything last minute. Not exactly showing Labour any respect at all. Shame! Oh well. Hes dominating news this morning so he and B@B will all be ecstatic. I hope he doesn’t stop Labour from doing it’s best to return NZ to its egalitarian status. Bloody annoyed at his timing.
   • marty mars 4.1

     13 September 2018 at 7:26 am

     + 1 yep – he is acting like a baby who needs his nappies changes.
     • James 4.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:21 am

       Winston gets what Winston wants. Labour gets what Winston allows them to have.

       Seems he’s not afraid to simply say “no”.

       It was always going to happen – and it’s fun to watch it play out.

       That’s what happens when you have such an ill prepared and weak leader like Jacinda (IMHO).
       • marty mars 4.1.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 8:30 am

         no james it is just life with adults
   • Dennis Frank 4.2

     13 September 2018 at 7:37 am

     Takes two to tango. He wouldn’t be able to grandstand if Labour didn’t keep on giving him the opportunities. The government ought to be doing consensus politics. It ought not to be allowing individual Labour ministers to hijack the process.

     Ardern knows she can only be successful by securing agreement. Sometimes that means working through disagreement by solving problems. She isn’t telling us that the process has failed, has she? So the obvious conclusion is that they didn’t even try. Labour arrogance, presumably, as Mahuta demonstrated. What’s missing currently is leadership at the top. Those loose cannons must be brought under control before they sink the ship.
     • Ngungukai 4.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 8:09 am

       Maybe Labour are not dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s properly ?
       • James 4.2.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 8:23 am

         More like just not asking the boss first (Winston).
   • Tuppence Shrewsbury 4.3

     13 September 2018 at 8:38 am

     Isn’t respect earned?

     As DPF points out, labour can’t even run a proper meeting in parliament. Why should Winston show them any respect?
5. marty mars 5

   13 September 2018 at 7:31 am

   Awesome little aussie battler – thank you Harper, for highlighting this.

   “Harper Nielsen claimed the song “Advance Australia Fair” ignored the nation’s indigenous people.

   “When it says ‘we are young’ it completely disregards the Indigenous Australians who were here before us,” she told ABC news Australia.”

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45495675
   • Ad 5.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:10 am

     That’s a 9 year old with courage.
     • Gabby 5.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 11:04 am

       That’s a well-programmed 9yo.
       • marty mars 5.1.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 11:51 am

         Yeah they probably had a well rounded education with minimal time on devices or the zombie box.
6. Ad 6

   13 September 2018 at 8:22 am

   Does anyone know what this Prime Minister’s speech at AUT on Sunday is all about?

   Generally geeing up the troops, or something substantial?
7. cleangreen 7

   13 September 2018 at 8:23 am

   Long live Winston!! our real hero of the north;

   Winston is needed to keep Labour honest as Labour has many rigjht wingers in their “broad church”.

   So if Winston does not check on labour swinging right who will????

   Remember it was Jacinda that challenged all to keep her government to keep her promises at the Whitangi day speak right?

   Here is Chris Trotter’s own coverage of the speech that day.

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/02/08/blowing-smoke-why-jacinda-needs-to-talk-less-and-do-more/

   “In her speech from the porch of the whare runanga, Jacinda urged Maori to hold the Labour-NZF-Green government to account if it failed to deliver on its promises of uplift and renewal”

   Winston is effectively doing everyone elses job they forgot to do!!!!!!!.
   • Nick 7.1

     13 September 2018 at 8:50 am

     Best to make the best decision, not the first decision, so let’s hope NZF are delaying for worthy reasons. Anyway, Labour coalition is still performing better than the last lot of crims, so there’s that!
   • solkta 7.2

     13 September 2018 at 10:17 am

     Bullshit. Labour are trying to do leftish things like reverse Labour law changes but Winston first is blocking it. Labour are trying to make attempts to honour the treaty by setting up the Maori/Crown thing but Winston is blocking it. Labour are trying to make meaningful changes to prisons but Winston is blocking it. Etc. Winston is the great dragging break on most of the progressive stuff that Labour and the Greens want to do.
8. marty mars 8

   13 September 2018 at 9:54 am

   “Putin called on the two men to appear in the media to protest their innocence, saying he “wanted to address them directly”. The Russian’s president’s words marked a departure from his country’s earlier position, which was to dismiss the evidence released by Scotland Yard as a fabrication.”

   https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/12/skripal-poisoning-suspects-are-civilians-not-criminals-says-putin-novichok

   A good development putting paid to the fabrication conspiracy adherents.
   • Bill 8.1

     13 September 2018 at 11:24 am

     Apart from questions being raised around identical date stamps on video stills that appeared to be from the same location (and that was cleared up), what “fabrication” are you referring to marty?
     • marty mars 8.1.1

       13 September 2018 at 11:29 am

       The one mentioned in the quote bill.
       • Bill 8.1.1.1

         13 September 2018 at 11:36 am

         There’s nothing specific mentioned in the quote – just an all encompassing and meaningless mention of “the evidence”.
         • marty mars 8.1.1.1.1

           13 September 2018 at 11:40 am

           What are you worried about then.
   • mauī 8.2

     13 September 2018 at 12:17 pm

     From what I can tell we still have one story versus another story. We need more evidence from both sides to see what story makes more sense.

     If you’re implying there is a change of story so that leans toward guilt. I don’t see that. The president’s latest comment clarifies the earlier one.
     • marty mars 8.2.1

       13 September 2018 at 12:23 pm

       Yes I’m sure you can read into it whatever suits.
   • adam 8.3

     13 September 2018 at 2:56 pm

     This report is very much like CNN coverage of Venezuelan. Like the added bit from the CIA – calling people conspiracy theorists.

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0i4TTBbNtk&ab_channel=TheJimmyDoreShow
9. marty mars 9

   13 September 2018 at 10:28 am

   ‘I am cautious in who i read and what I believe from them. Even people i love like russell brand I still am circumspect rather than just like all they say because i really like something they say.’

   I just wrote that and then thought, it sums up the problem well. We really struggle with this good person doing bad, bad person doing good, previous good person now doing bad and previous bad person now doing good. (I’m ignoring the value judgments of what is good or bad). I wonder why we can’t seem to compartmentalize a person’s actions and them or is that the problem – they are holistic. I’ve seen leftie unionists turn into capitalist pigdogs. I read good stuff and absolute rubbish from the same author. Probably just a reflection, a mirror of inside us and the turmoil we often live within.
10. Bill 10

    13 September 2018 at 11:32 am

    WTF!?

    Are Australian kids expected to do a “national anthem” mambo every morning or something?

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/sep/12/rightwing-australian-politicians-criticise-girl-9-in-row-over-anthem

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/queensland-schoolgirl-threatened-with-suspension-after-refusing-to-stand-for-national-anthem/news-story/33a07500c2cbf17d765af7da742c5dfc
    • Exkiwiforces 10.1

      13 September 2018 at 11:46 am

      Yes, to some degree as it’s a hangover from old “rat eyes” John Howard’s” era and from memory it maybe something to with Federal funding at the time as I can’t really be sure as I had more important things to worry about.
    • ianmac 10.2

      13 September 2018 at 11:52 am

      Back in the 70s Merv Wellington was out Min of Ed. He set out to demand that every kid at every school on every morning should salute the NZ flag and sing the National Anthem. He also asked that every image of nudity be removed from every book in every library. There was at least one Principal who inked out every image of nudity including those in the encyclopaedias. Thank goodness the National Government of the day fell. Very few schools responded to his Methodist beliefs. Phew!
11. greywarshark 11

    13 September 2018 at 12:42 pm

    Mr Poole wrote a scathing email to the group behind the Save the Schools campaign expressing his frustration at being included in the ad but Catherine Isaac, who is a supporter of the group and used to head the charter school authorisation board, doesn’t think the ad did any damage.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/366348/head-of-two-charter-schools-annoyed-by-newspaper-ad

    Catherine Isaac married to the late Roger Kerr. RWs rule Okay!
    Managing things to suit themselves first and foremost since at least 1984.

    I don’t think that generalised statement will do any damage, even if not true in every letter of that paragraph.
12. james 12

    13 September 2018 at 2:42 pm

    Winston clarfies once and for all.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12124423

    This government is not “Government was not “Labour-led”

    I guess Labour are going to have to wake up to this at some point – else they are going to be continued to be shocked at whats “work in progress” – normally after they announce it.
    • Dennis Frank 12.1

      13 September 2018 at 3:06 pm

      Good. Some sanity for a change. ” “You had the coalition agreement, then you had the 100-day statement, then you had the Speech from the Throne, then the Budget. If those things we’re talking about are not in those four documents then they are always work in progress,” Peters said. He insisted the Government was not “Labour-led”.” What kind of a dance is it when one partner leads, then the other partner leads?
      • mac1 12.1.1

        13 September 2018 at 3:31 pm

        “What kind of a dance is it when one partner leads, then the other partner leads?”

        I was introduced in an alternatives to violence workshop to the concept of effective relationships by the physical act of dancing with a fellow participant. The group felt what it was like, in turn, to dance in a way where both partners led at the same time (conflict and huge waste of energy), where neither led ( boring with nothing happening at all), and then where both partners led in turn.

        Great fun. Great learning.

        Could work in the great soft shoe shuffle of politics, too.
        • Dennis Frank 12.1.1.1

          13 September 2018 at 3:52 pm

          Thanks, good response. Let’s hope the coalition proceeds on that basis eh? 😊
          • Chuck 12.1.1.1.1

            13 September 2018 at 5:11 pm

            Better tell Jacinda and her ministers they need to run things pasted Winston then.

            Jacinda could be excused for thinking 37% verse 7% did not entitle Winston to have the power to veto / water down key Labour policy.

            The “not for public release” NZF – Labour document must not have been explicit enough in that regard!

            Winston knows where NZF votes come from…he is positioning NZF not to suffer the minor party fate come 2020. He will trumpet keeping Labour and those looney Greens in check.
          • mac1 12.1.1.1.2

            13 September 2018 at 9:09 pm

            Dance is an interesting metaphor from a depiction of Christ’s life in
            “Lord of the Dance” to the sex act as in “Shake, Rattle and Roll” to deceit as in leading someone a merry dance to bliss as in “I could have danced all night”.

            I guess politics is similar. You just gotta choose if and when you gotta get down close and dirty.

            The question remains-“Will you still love me tomorrow?”

            And then the next day. Is it “So long, It’s been good to know you” or is it “Silver threads amongst the gold”?

            But the dance goes on, and I’m in the band.
13. joe90 13

    13 September 2018 at 4:58 pm

    Criminal in Chief puts corporate profits ahead of life.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration moved closer Tuesday to rolling back Obama-era rules reducing oil and gas industry leaks of methane gas, one of the most potent agents of climate change.

    The Environmental Protection Agency formally released its proposed substitute for a 2016 Obama administration rule that aimed to step up detection and elimination of methane leaks at well sites and other oil and gas facilities. The agency’s move is part of a broad Trump administration effort to undo President Barack Obama’s legacy programs to fight climate change by cutting emissions from oil, gas and coal.

    https://apnews.com/a42323c0e0ed4572be8f752388d86787/EPA-moves-closer-to-rolling-back-Obama-era-rules-on-methane?
14. Dennis Frank 14

    13 September 2018 at 5:05 pm

    No Right Turn is reporting that Parliamentary Services is currently advertising for a pair of “security intelligence officers” and quotes the PS ad: “Reporting to the Security Enablement Manager, this role will collect information of intelligence value, conduct analysis of the information collected and prepare standardised intelligence product, in order to inform and influence the security and risk posture of Parliamentary Service.”

    NRT: “Why the hell does Parliamentary Services need this? Who will they be collecting intelligence on?” Leakers, I presume. Wonder why that’s not obvious to NRT!
15. Morrissey 15

    13 September 2018 at 9:06 pm

    Croaking propagandist Barbara Walters fails miserably

    This horrible woman has cozied up to Israeli presidents, American presidents, Henry Kissinger, and bloodstained military leaders like Norman Schwarzkopf and that arch-liar Colin Powell. She says that if she traveled abroad, she would love to have Powell as a “buddy”. She is infamous for her fawning and groveling manner.

    However, when it came to interviewing the President of Syria, she tried to come across as an interrogator. Unfortunately for her, besides not having prepared properly, she is not nearly as sharp intellectually as her interlocutor….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA61WCy1Ttw

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