Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
Government not considering alert level 4 'circuit-breaker lockdown' despite calls from health experts
1 hour ago
Jamie Ensor
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
…Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months,….
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
…..as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever?….
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?"Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
…..by 1931, it was clear that further intervention was necessary to prevent widespread foreclosures and mortgagee sales…..
….Although mortgage relief was frequently discussed at some length by
contemporary commentators, and by some historians in the 1950s and
1960s, it has been relegated to a few lines at most in more recent works.’
…..This Act also extended to lessees [renters] the same protection
that had been granted to mortgagors,
The modification of mortgage conditions was not new in New Zealand. A ‘mortgage moratorium’ had been imposed as a war measure in 1914,
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long)….
….Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever…..
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want…..
….I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
Covid and kindness
Written By: WEKA – Date published:10:16 am, October 20th, 2021
I’m still seeing a fair number of people advocating for ‘opening up’ on the basis of either individual responsibility (‘I’m vaccinated’), and/or fuck the lazy/selfish bastards (‘never mind 90% vax rate, we can’t wait’)….
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
Colin Powell was fully vaccinated, but he still died from COVID complications. How rare is that?
Adrianna Rodriguez – USA TODAY, Oct. 18, 2021
….the former secretary of state and retired four-star general was fully vaccinated against the disease….
….The CDC also reports that as of Oct. 12, 7,178 deaths among vaccinated people; 85% of the deaths are in people 65 and older….
….Research suggests that may be happening among other populations, too. A study in August from the CDC showed vaccine effectiveness decreased among health care workers who were fully vaccinated since the time the delta coronavirus variant became widespread.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Myeloma is more commonly seen in people over 60, said Dr. Don Benson, hematologist-oncologist at The Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center.
Roughly 35,000 cases of myeloma are reported in the U.S. each year. Although it’s considered an incurable cancer, most patients don’t die from the disease itself.
……This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.
Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
… a protest group is promising to hold a "strike" in Auckland against what they see as an imposition on teachers' freedoms. It's not known how many of the group are teachers. (my bold)
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
“But many people don’t even know they exist. Maybe that’s how they snuck into the competition under cover of darkness.”
…
Department of Conservation senior ranger Rob Carson-Iles said the long-tailed bat was critically endangered, “the next stop on that continuum is extinction”.
Carson-Iles welcomed the addition of the bat to the previously bird-based competition.
“You can’t protect something you don't know about,’' he said.
“They’re something that’s really special to this area. They’re doing it tough, and they need our assistance to carry on.'’
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
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Graham Adams writes about the $55m media fund — When Patrick Gower was asked by Mike Hosking last week what he would say to the many Newstalk ZB callers who allege the Labour government bribed media with $55 million of taxpayers’ money via the Public Interest Journalism Fund — and ...
Note: this blog post has been put together over the course of the week I followed the happenings at the conference virtually. Should recordings of the Great Debates and possibly Union Symposia mentioned below, be released sometime after the conference ends, I'll include links to the ones I participated in. ...
The following was my submission made on the “Fast Track Approvals Bill”. This potential law will give three Ministers unchecked powers, un-paralled since the days of Robert Muldoon’s “Think Big” projects.The submission is written a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it’s irreverent because the FTAB is in itself not worthy of respect. ...
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1. What was The Curse of Jim Bolger?a. Winston Peters b. Soon after shaking his hand, world leaders would mysteriously lose office or shuffle off this mortal coilc. Could never shake off the Mother of All Budgetsd. Dandruff2. True or false? The Chairman of a Kiwi export business has asked the ...
Jack Vowles writes – New Zealand is said to be suffering from ‘serious populist discontent’. An IPSOS MORI survey has reported that we have an increasing preference for strong leaders, think that the economy is rigged toward the rich and powerful, and political elites are ignoring ‘hard-working people’. ...
Chris Trotter writes – MELISSA LEE should be deprived of her ministerial warrant. Her handling – or non-handling – of the crisis engulfing the New Zealand news media has been woeful. The fate of New Zealand’s two linear television networks, a question which the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications ...
TL;DR: The podcast above features co-hosts and , along with regular guests Robert Patman on Gaza and AUKUS II, and on climate change.The six things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the ...
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TL;DR: The global economy will be one fifth smaller than it would have otherwise been in 2050 as a result of climate damage, according to a new study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) and published in the journal Nature. (See more detail and analysis below, and ...
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Foreign Minister Winston Peters is understood to be planning a major speech within the next fortnight to clear up the confusion over whether or not New Zealand might join the AUKUS submarine project. So far, there have been conflicting signals from the Government. RNZ reported the Prime Minister yesterday in ...
Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs necessitate wiping your iPhone clean and starting anew. Whether you’re facing persistent software glitches, preparing to sell your device, or simply wanting a fresh start, knowing how to factory reset iPhone without a computer is a valuable skill. While using a computer with ...
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Buzz from the Beehive Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones relishes spatting and eagerly takes issue with environmentalists who criticise his enthusiasm for resource development. He relishes helping the fishing industry too. And so today, while the media are making much of the latest culling in the public service to ...
Having written, taught and worked for the US government on issues involving unconventional warfare and terrorism for 30-odd years, two things irritate me the most when the subject is discussed in public. The first is the Johnny-come-lately academics-turned-media commentators who … Continue reading → ...
Eric Crampton writes – Kainga Ora is the government’s house building agency. It’s been building a lot of social housing. Kainga Ora has its own (but independent) consenting authority, Consentium. It’s a neat idea. Rather than have to deal with building consents across each different territorial authority, Kainga Ora ...
Muriel Newman writes – The Coalition Government says it is moving with speed to deliver campaign promises and reverse the damage done by Labour. One of their key commitments is to “defend the principle that New Zealanders are equal before the law.” To achieve this, they have pledged they “will not advance ...
Chris Trotter writes – The absence of anything resembling a fightback from the public servants currently losing their jobs is interesting. State-sector workers’ collective fatalism in the face of Coalition cutbacks indicates a surprisingly broad acceptance of impermanence in the workplace. Fifty years ago, lay-offs in the thousands ...
Mariupol, on the Azov Sea coast, was one of the first cities to suffer almost complete destruction after the start of the Ukraine War started in late February 2022. We remember the scenes of absolute destruction of the houses and city structures. The deaths of innocent civilians – many of ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – Ten years ago, I wrote the following in a Listener column: Every year around one in five new-born babies will be reliant on their caregivers benefit by Christmas. This pattern has persisted from at least 1993. For Maori the number jumps to over one in three. ...
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It’s a simple deal. We pay taxes in order to finance the social services we want and need. The carnage now occurring across the public sector though, is breaking that contract. Over 3,000 jobs have been lost so far. Many are in crucial areas like Education where the impact of ...
Hi,A friend had their 40th over the weekend and decided to theme it after Curb Your Enthusiasm fashion icon Susie Greene. Captured in my tiny kitchen before I left the house, I ending up evoking a mix of old lesbian and Hillary Clinton — both unintentional.Me vs Hillary ClintonIf you’re ...
This is a re-post from Andrew Dessler at the Climate Brink blogIn 2023, the Earth reached temperature levels unprecedented in modern times. Given that, it’s reasonable to ask: What’s going on? There’s been lots of discussions by scientists about whether this is just the normal progression of global warming or if something ...
The schools are on holiday and the sun is shining in the seaside village and all day long I have been seeing bunches of bikes; Mums, Dads, teens and toddlers chattering, laughing, happy, having a bloody great time together. Cheers, AT, for the bits of lane you’ve added lately around the ...
Today in our National-led authoritarian nightmare: Shane Jones thinks Ministers should be above the law: New Zealand First MP Shane Jones is accusing the Waitangi Tribunal of over-stepping its mandate by subpoenaing a minister for its urgent hearing on the Oranga Tamariki claim. The tribunal is looking into the ...
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Citizen Science writes – Last week saw two significant developments in the debate over the treatment of trans-identifying children and young people – the release in Britain of the final report of Dr Hilary Cass’s review into gender healthcare, and here in New Zealand, the news that the ...
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Turning what Labour called the “holiday highway” into a four-lane expressway from Auckland to Whangarei could bring at least an economic benefit of nearly two billion a year for Northland each year. And it could help bring an end to poverty in one of New Zealand’s most deprived regions. The ...
Tonight’s six-stack includes: launching his substack with a bunch of his previous documentaries, including this 1992 interview with Dame Whina Cooper. and here crew give climate activists plenty to do, including this call to submit against the Fast Track Approvals bill. writes brilliantly here on his substack ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
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Karl du Fresne writes – There’s a crisis in the news media and the media are blaming it on everyone except themselves. Culpability is being deflected elsewhere – mainly to the hapless Minister of Communications, Melissa Lee, and the big social media platforms that are accused of hoovering ...
I don’t normally send out two newsletters in a day but I figured I’d say something about… the news. If two newsletters is a bit much then maybe just skip one, I don’t want to overload people. Alternatively if you’d be interested in sometimes receiving multiple, smaller updates from me, ...
Buzz from the Beehive David Seymour and Winston Peters today signalled that at least two ministers of the Crown might be in Wellington today. Seymour (as Associate Minister of Education) announced the removal of more red tape, this time to make it easier for new early learning services to be ...
Politicians across the political spectrum are implicated in the New Zealand media’s failing health. Either through neglect or incompetent interventions, successive governments have failed to regulate, foster, and allow a healthy Fourth Estate that can adequately hold politicians and the powerful to account. Our political system is suffering from the ...
David Farrar writes – The Broadcasting Standards Authority ruled: Comments by radio host Kate Hawkesby suggesting Māori and Pacific patients were being prioritised for surgery due to their ethnicity were misleading and discriminatory, the Broadcasting Standards Authority has found. It is a fact such patients are prioritised. ...
PRC and its proxies in Solomons have been preparing for these elections for a long time.A lot of money, effort and intelligence have gone into ensuring an outcome that won’t compromise Beijing’s plans. Cleo Paskall writes – On April 17th the Solomon Islands, a country of ...
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The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
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A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
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New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
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Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
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Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey and his Government colleagues have made a meal of their mental health commitments, showing how flimsy their efforts to champion the issue truly are, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...
Māori are yet to see anything from this Government except cuts, reversals and taking our people backwards, Māori Development spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...
The Coalition Government’s refusal to commit to ongoing funding for social housing is seeing the sector pull back on developments and families watch their dreams of securing a home fade away, says Labour Housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty. ...
Changes to minimum wage and benefit indexation means many New Zealanders will get less this year, as the Government gives a big tax break to landlords instead. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
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The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner. The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
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Sign the petition get the government to recommit to Elimination.
NZ Government: Recommit to elimination of COVID-19
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19?
Have you not witnessed what has happened in pretty much ever other country around the world Jenny? The horse has bolted, this petition is futile.
We need to eliminate to save people's lives and people's health.
We need to eliminate to save our health system and look after the people who work in it.
We need to eliminate to save our economy.
we need pixies and fairies too, but like elimination, that is not going to happen in the real world
Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Sign the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
However, treatments that are more effective may well be developed, saving lives, communities and businesses.
Said the hiker about the bear.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
https://twitter.com/sunshinechi1/status/1447595536635289606
Is this a veiled threat?
jester/hiker/bear = covid/cameraman/warthog
Good video. Brave man to let a warthog get that close as they are vicious.
But I don't really see what the video has to do with anything?
Brave?
Or did he have an overinflated opinion of his ability to control something that he should have feared?
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
That's sobering. I wish NZ was talking about this more, far too many people think we're going back to normal next year.
What are your thoughts on the Auckland outbreak and what should be done at the moment, in the context of the bigger and longer picture above?
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Probably one more week in level 4 would have been enough; now it may take another 3 weeks to achieve it. Worth it for level 1 or 2 by Christmas.
Yes but how would you get full compliance from the gangs? It makes no difference to them whether its level 1,2,3 or 4.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
The above photo of the TVNZ timeline graph doesn't quite capture the full awfulness of the government's retreat from elimination.
After lowering the Level 4 Alert to Level 3 and numbers started rising, the government loosened restrictions in Auckland even futher.
See photo in link below.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126671440/covid19-virus-will-sweep-through-auckland-after-level-3-loosening-modeller-warns
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?" Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
Colin Powell died of cancer.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
Really?
You started this thread by falsely claiming that the latest outbreak is the result of the minority of rule breakers.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-10-2021/#comment-1823767
Then you moved on, to say that those that didn't get immunised deserved to sicken and die.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-10-2021/#comment-1826195
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Another lie is that lockdown has caused more deaths than not locking down.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/weekly-deaths-declined-nzs-lockdown-we-still-dont-know-exactly-why
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-fewer-suicides-during-lockdown-level-4-chief-coroner/Z6R2IN5LN67LNLYDADTSTNWSIE/
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyon_Yong-chol
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
Think it was Key's idea for the telethon type thing as well this weekend.
Thought that was quite funny.
Bit of a side story. But something I found interesting.
Seymour's End of life choice Act comes in, in less than a month.
They have published how much Doctors and other medical staff will get who chose to carry out the procedure.
$1087.20 a time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300428689/assisted-dying-doctors-to-be-paid-1087-to-perform-procedure-starting-next-month
That is interesting.
Disturbing that it is essentially the same as a midwife is paid to deliver a life into this world.
Really?
Wouldn't actually surprise me if that was what they based it on.
On the media's undermining of the public health response to covid.
https://badnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-fifth-columnists
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
Shock jockism at its worst.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
*Hosking. Mike Hosking. Not Hoskins.
When you're slagging somebody off it's the done thing to get their name right.
Isn't that Horeskin?
No, apparently it’s The Hosk, to those in the loop.
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
That is one seriously long winded way of someone saying they don't agree with other peoples opinions and only their's is right
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
First tactic: there's no evidence;
if that is patently false, choose between "yawn" and "explaining is losing".
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.
Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
It's almost as if having a sick population is bad for your wealth…
I see a few teacher have resigned over mandatory vac.
Good that they are out of the classroom.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-schools-out-small-numbers-of-teachers-quit-over-mandated-vaccinations/B4YNDASC2UCJJROPY3WQ42N7VY/
3
They wouldn't be destiny church connected at all would they?
I enjoyed reading this bit:
Every post a winning post for the anti-vaxxers?
Yes thanks I saw that too.
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
There is much hot air about this.
United Airlines gave its staff of 67,000 an ultimatum re vaccination and by the time the deadline had passed only 320 were unvaccinated.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/30/uniteds-unvaccinated-staff-drops-from-593-to-320-after-company-said-they-would-be-fired.html
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
100%
That's elegantly, and ruthlessly, put, Ad. May I borrow it 🙂
Vaccine mandates are also constrained by scientific truth,where as say vaccine breakthrough is higher those with substance use disorders (SUD )
Here it seems those with Cannabis use disorder seem to be at greater risk of breakthrough infection .
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20921
A scientific truth would also allow for an endorsement on the vaccine passport stating that the holder is still a risk,due to cannabis use disorder.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Utopia!
Yes, for the safety of everyone lets have more mandates from our sole source of truth.
Maybe a newspaper would be useful…
A recent Nobel Peace Prize winner said, "A world without facts means a world without truth and trust." – Maria Ressa 2021
A relative recently said to me:
You can take this KFC drumstick …
Out of my cold dead hand.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
The proposal seems to be acceptable.
You should have aspiration in your life, but you are not allowed aspiration during vaccination.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
Can you link where you got the 10% number from?
There was this article earlier in the week: Covid 19: 'Almost no one' in Australia medically exempt from coronavirus vaccinations – health expert
It mentions that 1 in 100,000 could be allergic (not anywhere close to 1 in 10).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-almost-no-one-in-australia-medically-exempt-from-coronavirus-vaccinations-health-expert/TLNOOEJD2VCUVCAZACHN5HSAZY/
[correct link added – weka]
Self styled I am sure and possibly only a few would actually be immuno compromised or have allergic issues.
Interesting that link has been removed!!!!
My mistake… Look here
Thanks
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
Hone Harawira's lost the plot. Doing his rag with the F word again. 🙄
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-northlanders-could-wait-weeks-to-see-alleged-border-breachers-charged/24HP3HT7YRVPA3KFYM64I5MS7A/
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
Hone cares and has vulnerable people to protect. He is fed up with incursions, I agree with you Weka.
So do I, but that shocker of a hot-headed, foul-mouthed temper he sometimes displays leads him into fucking avoidable trouble sometimes.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
perhaps most of us dont phucking care. dont waste our phucking time by ignoring hone's message.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
So Jacinda Ardern doesn’t care enuf to swear about it? Is that what you’re saying?
Or are you saying some public figures can swear addressing reporters & it’s not a problem?
Which ones? And which ones shouldn’t?
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
Hone diminishes his mana using profanities in public. Everybody does.
That’s why Ardern & the others don’t do it in public.
Thank you.
You may sit back down again. 👍🏼
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Good one 😄
Governments climate policy descending into farce
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback–asks-people-business-to-fill-gaps
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pat-baskett-bring-forward-our-net-zero-goal
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
.
Ella & Elvis: The Movie. Ella learns to lock up when she goes out – watch out for the rat at 3.07…
https://vimeo.com/267138939
Cute Geeza
'Hey wait up gorgeous' says Elvis to Ella was it?
'I wonder if my washing is wet'
Fabulous Gezza.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
I want to know why bats have been included in the Bird of the Year competition.
Bats are not birds. Bats should not be included. Though of course I support them.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
Yeah, bad call.
Poor bats though, it's not like NZ would ever have a Mammal of the Year competition.
Mammal of the year?
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
https://www.teaomaori.news/northland-beauty-wins-miss-new-zealand-2020
Aye, the decision to include bats "is expected to ruffle a few feathers"
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
Nope I had nothing to with this
Oh I don't know.. It's got P R all over it. And you only have to look at them to see that they are puckish little rogues.
They are very cute
How did you get that large image (at the URL) to fit inside the Comment box, Macro?
Every time I’ve tried to use the image tool to post an image here it’s posted outsized, hasn’t all fitted in the Comment space.
The trick is to post and then to edit after the original url for the image add
width="450"
👌🏼 Thanks Macro. 👍🏼
I have a candidate for New Zealander of the Year.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126657633/a-very-brave-and-special-person-tributes-pour-in-for-wellington-teen-who-raised-more-than-550000-for-cancer-research
Maybe because they're our only mammal and have no-one else to play with? Perhaps we should be inclusive and change the name of the competition.
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Oh here we go with the usual BERP propaganda.
Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece? What's trumpet playing got to do with it?
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback
This is seriously underwhelming and lacking in ambition… nuclear free moment my arse.
I doubt anything James Shaw has to say will be taken seriously in Glasgow…
very depressing. I still reckon it's going to take a major grass roots effort to get teh govt to act.
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
James has too much riding on this to quit before Glasgow, and he's signed the Greens up to this response as Minister.
But if ever there were an issue that could splinter the Greens, it would be Shaw's agreed response to climate change.
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).