Open Mike 13/12/2017

126 comments on “Open Mike 13/12/2017 ”

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1. Carolyn_nth 1

   13 December 2017 at 7:12 am

   As reported yesterday on newsroom, among other things Clare Curran says that the government will be upping funding for RNZ in support of them launching themselves into the television space.

   This seems to mean that she expects TVNZ to support the televisionisation of RNZ. Hoever, the future of TVNZ in the medium to long term seems uncertain.

   The Labour-led Government will indeed pump cash back into RNZ (referred to as ‘Red Radio’’ by some in the corridors of Parliament).

   Under the current plan, RNZ will likely receive between an additional $20-30 million of a new $38m public media fund with the remainder to be divvied out to other media outlets doing investigative journalism through NZ On Air and an overarching public media funding commission.

   The idea is for that money to be used by RNZ to launch itself into the television space, complementing its already strong radio offering and growing multimedia presence.

   Curran sees it as a ‘lite’ version of Australia’s ABC and says it’s a necessary investment to ensure the survival of public media that has been “hanging on by their fingertips”.
   • alwyn 1.1

     13 December 2017 at 9:28 am

     Why is this Government planning to spend about a hundred times as much on this idea as the amount they are apparently planning to take away from the amazingly successful KidsCan charity? From last nights Checkpoint on RNZ we were told that the organisation has been getting about $350,000/year from the State. Their activities include, according to the person running it –
     “”We are feeding 30,000 children a week across New Zealand, we’re providing around 25 to 30,000 pairs of shoes, 50,000 pairs of socks, 40,000 raincoats a year,” Ms Chapman said.”
     Now it is apparently going to stop getting the money.

     The Minister, Tracy Martin, was interviewed on RNZ this morning on Morning Report. Apart from sounding way out of her depth she didn’t seem to know anything about what was going on and her major complaint seemed to be that it was supported by a fund that John Key had implemented. The “Not invented here” syndrome seemed to be very strong in Ms Martin, didn’t it?

     The current PM claims that her major aim is to get kids out of poverty. Here is an organisation doing precisely that. She should tell Minister Martin that the support WILL continue. Don’t just try and find something vastly more expensive to replace it so that you can get lots of photo ops. It is doing wonderful work and it shouldn’t be meddled with.

     By the way I did love the marvellous word “televisionisation” you used. I doubt that any current dictionary includes it but they should.
     • Ed 1.1.1

       13 December 2017 at 9:34 am

       Private charity is never a substitute for public welfare

       https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/31/francis-maude-big-society-charity

       http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/03/21/private_charity_and_the_safety_net_why_philanthropy_can_t_replace_government.html

       http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20140330
       • alwyn 1.1.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 10:03 am

         So you would scrap any contribution to KidsCan would you?
         Doesn’t fit into your view of what is “right”.
         They are doing a wonderful job. The Martin woman doesn’t seem to like them because they seem to get money from a small, inexpensive, grant scheme set up by John Key when he was PM.
         So what? The grant scheme works and an enormous number of children get assistance. Just because it doesn’t fit into your particular political paradigm doesn’t matter.
         • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.1

           13 December 2017 at 10:07 am

           They do good work but it is work the state should be doing.
           • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1.1

             13 December 2017 at 10:19 am

             Do you mean, by that statement that ONLY the state should be doing it?
             I really don’t think that the State is the only source for such help.

             The state has a role of course. I see no reason why it need be an exclusive one though. This organisation seems to be helping about 170,000 children and the contribution of the taxpayer seems to be a direct grant of $350,000/year.

             Sure, there will be further costs to the taxpayer from tax deductions for donations to them if they are a registered charity. I would much rather see that than the money that goes from the taxpayer to groups such as Greenpeace in the same way.
             • The Chairman …

               13 December 2017 at 11:01 am

               Executive Julie Chapman told Checkpoint for every dollar it spent, at least 80 cents went to children. That’s a 20% running cost.

               Therefore, it may be the Government are considering whether there are more efficient ways to ensure more of that funding gets to the kids in need.
               • Pat …

                 13 December 2017 at 11:12 am

                 and its worth remembering that there have been numerous cases of charities where claimed dollar splits havnt held up to scrutiny…..may not be the case here but it is an issue that needs attention.
                 • The Chairman …

                   13 December 2017 at 11:14 am

                   Indeed.
               • alwyn …

                 13 December 2017 at 11:40 am

                 Fine, but the $350k is only a very small portion of their income.
                 20% is actually quite good for a charity I believe.
                 The operational costs that are in the 20% would include collecting and distributing the things like shoes to the kids.
                 I’ll bet the percentage spent by WINZ, if you exclude the very easy to run National Super is more than that.
                 • The Chairman …

                   14 December 2017 at 7:30 am

                   Regardless if it’s only a small portion of their income, it’s taxpayer funding, thus the Government has an obligation to ensure taxpayers are receiving value for money.

                   And while 20% may be a low running cost for a charity, it may be the Government can administer it for far less.

                   Moreover, going off some of the reports I’ve heard, there are questions surrounding their expenses and running costs.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 13 December 2017 at 11:58 am

                 Executive Julie Chapman told Checkpoint for every dollar it spent, at least 80 cents went to children. That’s a 20% running cost.

                 Which is massive. IIRC, Our government run hospitals have ~95% going to the patients.

                 So, that would be more proof of the inefficiency of the private system and that would be increased for every such organisation.

                 It really is better to make such social welfare organisations a state monopoly. Of course, it’s even better to make it so that it’s not needed but that’s not going to happen any time soon especially since capitalism actually requires and produces poverty.
                 • alwyn …

                   13 December 2017 at 2:55 pm

                   “Our government run hospitals have ~95% going to the patients”

                   I would love to know exactly how you work that out.
                   The major part of the cost of running the Public Hospitals is the wages and salaries of the staff I would think
                   That is money going to those staff, just as the administration costs of a charity is no doubt the wages and salaries of their staff.
                   It would be quite silly to call those Hospital costs something going to the patients but not say the same thing about the same sort of expenditure by a charity.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     13 December 2017 at 3:06 pm

                     The major part of the cost of running the Public Hospitals is the wages and salaries of the staff I would think

                     Probably.
                     95% goes to supporting the patients. 5% goes on administration. A doctor’s salary is supporting the patients.

                     That is money going to those staff, just as the administration costs of a charity is no doubt the wages and salaries of their staff.

                     A fairly large part of the private sector is spending on advertising, functions and other useless stuff that a government department doesn’t need.
             • Molly …

               13 December 2017 at 11:09 am

               Apart from the very pertinent point that you ignore regarding charitable institutions, have you ever bothered to look at the annual returns for Kidscan.

               There is a decided lack of clarity regarding operating expenses and programme costs which account for up to 40% of spending. There is no transparency, there is no credible method for determining if what they deliver is what is required.

               Worth looking at the Rusty Radiator awards site to get some kind of insight into reliance on/ and misplaced charity.

               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbqA6o8_WC0
               • Ed …

                 13 December 2017 at 11:52 am

                 Even from their own records., a lot of money does not go to need children….

                 https://www.kidscan.org.nz/sites/default/files/Annual%20Report%202015%20Web%20copy.pdf
                 • Molly …

                   13 December 2017 at 12:07 pm

                   Yes Ed. Meant to include charity commission links to their annual accounts, but was interrupted and forget. Thanks for doing so.
             • red-blooded …

               13 December 2017 at 11:13 am

               You seem to be getting fired up about a decision that hasn’t actually been made yet, alwyn. The funding for this charity was always a fixed term contract (and always a stop-gap). The contract is expiring and there’s no ongoing provision for funding. There’s no moral obligation to extend it.

               If you look at her comments, Tracey Martin doesn’t seem to be averse to renewing the funding, but instead of discussing it with her, Kids Can seem to have gone on the attack.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 13 December 2017 at 12:00 pm

                 …but instead of discussing it with her, Kids Can seem to have gone on the attack.

                 Must be scared of losing their slush fund.
                 • Ed …

                   13 December 2017 at 12:04 pm

                   Their accounts are interesting.
                   2015

                   Administration Costs $1,290,059
                   Operating Costs $2,140,927
                 • Ed …

                   13 December 2017 at 12:05 pm

                   Their accounts are interesting.
                   2015

                   Administration Costs $1,290,059
                   Operating Costs $2,140,927
                   Programme Costs $ 4,609,456

                   Maybe these are some of the ‘operating costs’.

                   ‘The KidsCan charity for children living in poverty spent donors’ money on “champagne lunches” and taxis to and from restaurants, say former staff.

                   They say hospitality spending was a feature of discontent among workers, along with some salaries being counted in ways that made KidsCan’s administration budget appear lower.’

                   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11449523

                   Hopefully they’ve improved since 2009.

                   ‘How much of the near two million dollars raised for the KidsCan Stand Tall Trust in TV3’s weekend Telethon will go to meet the “basic needs” of children in poverty? You’d have to hope it’s more than the 19 cents in the dollar that KidsCan managed to spend on its four charitable programmes last year.

                   Its financial statement to the Charities Commission for 2008 show that the trust raised $1.95 million last year, of which $1.5 million went in operating costs.

                   [NB: I could have been clearer here: the $1.95m and costs come from the statement for the KidsCan Charitable Trust Group, which consolidates KidsCan’s various activities, including the Big Night In.]

                   Of $1,351,162 declared in expenses by the KidsCan Trust itself, the largest item was $341,668 in wages for six full-time staff and two part-time, followed by “Events and Promotions” at $293,768.

                   I accept that in order to administer its programmes, and to attract funding, the trust needs staff. But a bill of nearly $300,000 for events and promotions, and a further $60,000 on advertising and $45,383 on PR? Really?

                   A total $357,354 went to the charitable programmes themselves — Food for Kids, Raincoats for Kids, Stand Tall, and Shoes for Kids.’

                   https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/where-your-money-goes/

                   Sponsors & Supporters include

                   The Coffee Club
                   Heinz Watties
                   Nestle
                   Westfield NZ

                   Wonder if these companies pay the minimum wage?
                   • Rosemary McDonald …

                     13 December 2017 at 12:12 pm

                     Be warned Ed, from someone who has been there…scrutinising the Annual Returns of “charities” is a down the rabbit hole exercise.

                     I’ve been there with IHC/Idea Services, Spectrum Care, Carers NZ, DPA NZ, NZDSN, et al….

                     ….path to misery and disillusionment mate.
                   • Ed …

                     13 December 2017 at 12:16 pm

                     My point exactly.
                     Charity is not the solution to society’s needs.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     13 December 2017 at 12:25 pm

                     But a bill of nearly $300,000 for events and promotions, and a further $60,000 on advertising and $45,383 on PR? Really?

                     Yep. Wouldn’t surprise me. Part of the massive inefficiency of the private sector doing this is that they have to inform people that they exist, where to donate and to wine and dine large sponsors.

                     The government doesn’t need to do all that and so is inherently far more efficient.

                     Charity is not the solution to society’s needs.

                     But it can make a few people well off while providing cover for the sociopathic actions of some rich people. You’ll note that many corrupt rich people gave to charity and it was always in the MSM.
                   • Ed …

                     13 December 2017 at 12:27 pm

                     And money for perks and drinks…..
             • Ed …

               13 December 2017 at 11:22 am

               I’m predicting you read none of the articles I linked.
               • alwyn …

                 13 December 2017 at 11:28 am

                 The first link doesn’t work.
                 The second one I knew about.
                 The gist of it is, of course, “It’s all John Key’s fault”.
                 Followed by running for cover.
                 The previous Government couldn’t possibly provide money for it that was ring fenced. A Government can’t commit future Governments to do anything.
             • Psycho Milt …

               13 December 2017 at 1:15 pm

               Do you mean, by that statement that ONLY the state should be doing it?
               I really don’t think that the State is the only source for such help.

               I agree. But the point is that the state already funds its own organisations to do this work. It would be wasteful to also fund private organisations to do the same work. A charity is supposed to be funded by charitable giving, not the state.
           • Grantoc 1.1.1.1.1.2

             13 December 2017 at 1:36 pm

             So what. Why does it matter if the state is or is not doing it? Isn’t it more important that its just done – regardless of who delivers it, so long as the programme makes a positive difference.

             Sounds like a case of rigid ideology trumping practical results focused programmes that are make a difference.

             And that’s just dumb.
             • McFlock …

               13 December 2017 at 2:59 pm

               Two main reasons, from my position: firstly, direct public oversight. If stories about drinks budgets come up in ministries, the opposition has a field day.

               Secondly, private charity is always petulant and biased towards “cute”. Even if child poverty were eliminated, charities working with homeless alcoholics with mental health disorders will still struggle for funding. People bitch about back-room bureaucrats, but ministerial poo-bahs are usually much more logical in their allocations than people who just saw an ad with an Oliver Twist / orphan Annie substitute in it.

               Bonus third point: less need to spend the accrued funds to entertain and advertise to gain more funding for the following year.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 13 December 2017 at 3:11 pm

                 +111
             • Draco T Bastard …

               13 December 2017 at 3:13 pm

               Why does it matter if the state is or is not doing it?

               If the state simply does it then there’s no opportunity for rich people to rort the system while feeling special while giving to charity that, to some degree, lessens the poverty that they created by being rich.
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               13 December 2017 at 5:38 pm

               …bonus 4th point: you don’t have to pay charities to clip the ticket when you’ve already paid public servants to administer the health budget.

               Bonus 5th point: the greedy right wing low-lives that caused poverty and misery in the first place don’t get to lord it over their betters.
   • cleangreen 1.2

     13 December 2017 at 3:38 pm

     100% Caroyln

     Thanks very much for thisvery informative update on our new media that will finally give us all a independant media to privide good solid transperancy and “investigative jornalism that we need so very badly in this current “Key/Joyce/English type propagandist meadia hype” we had all grown so very tired of over the last nine years, and finally are about to be freed from.

     This was good stuff the Ombudsman saw through the tired ranting of the national party smoke screen “secrecy” on the 33 page ‘agreement’. – as we saw Joyce’s $1.7 Billion Dolllar hole.

     Hon’ Claire Curran was reportedly as stated here;

     “Ombudsman Peter Boshier has backed the Government’s refusal to release the 33-page document in a provisional ruling revealed this morning by Newsroom.

     Speaking before the ruling’s release, Curran is critical of National’s written question tactic while claiming it was a good look for the Ombudsman to be investigating the new Government so early.”

     Labour deserve a medal for conducting a clever process here.
   • cleangreen 1.3

     13 December 2017 at 10:09 pm

     Nice coverage there Carolyn,

     Claire Curran is a worthy soul that we need to appreciate now, as she was boxed in by the National muck racking of the “secrecy issue between NZF and Labour 33 page agreement’ that only a day ago was put to rest thankfully when the privacy Commissioner backed the government.

     Go Claire Go ‘lets do this’.

     Let us have a independant public media for a voice of the people again.
2. eco maori 2

   13 December 2017 at 7:23 am

   Many Thanks to the Australian Rugby union for hiring the best person for there CEO who happens to be a lady I’m sure she will get your Mana back Ka pai.
   Email well I have to retrieve some from Gmail Data on the IPCA but ha I can use the official information act to achieve the same objective. Yes Matty I will tour the South Island before I go over seas my wife deserves a holiday after what she been thought. And I no I will get my Mana back. When I do I will buy a house a electric car solar power veggie garden an live a minimualmistic life and keep the good fight for mother nature and equally for everyone on mother earth. I plan to set our requirement period up so I have heaps of food and other things so all our mokos will come and see us regularly and there parents. I no I fight for Maori Alot and don’t talk about the polite of our Pacific cousins but ha what good for the poor is good for OUR Pacific cousins to I want equality for all. Ka pai
   • eco maori 2.1

     13 December 2017 at 8:36 am

     Well dopy and sneezy are still pissing in the wind. I love milky bar chocolate and the kid when I was one I no what it will take to get these ass holes off my back Ana to kai
     • eco maori 2.1.1

       13 December 2017 at 1:42 pm

       Thanks for the heads up people from the Rock looks like some one is going to be shelling out a heap for loss of potential earnings. Sorry Matty I did not mean to upset you you are a awesome KIWI Kia kaha
3. James 3

   13 December 2017 at 7:46 am

   Forget Vogue – Comrade Jacinda makes the British Medical Journal.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11958258
   • savenz 3.1

     13 December 2017 at 8:01 am

     Just trying to divert attention away from real issues and Natz disaster legacy and turn it into yet another story about a politician to divide people’s opinions.
     • james 3.1.1

       13 December 2017 at 8:06 am

       Peoples opinions are already divided – thats why National poll at 46%.

       But it dosnt surprise me that you have nothing to say on the issue put forward.
       • dv 3.1.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 8:14 am

         What was the issue you want to discuss James?
         • James 3.1.1.1.1

           13 December 2017 at 8:21 am

           The issues in the link which I’m guessing you did not read.
           • dv 3.1.1.1.1.1

             13 December 2017 at 8:32 am

             So which is issue you want to discuss There we several in the article?
             (PS prove ED wrong)
         • Ed 3.1.1.1.2

           13 December 2017 at 8:27 am

           He never discusses issues. He just talks about polls and repeats personal attacks by other rwnjs.
           • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.2.1

             13 December 2017 at 3:43 pm

             Yes Ed you have it in one

             The Man talks rubbish sadly and offers no real value sadly.

             I think these national clingons have completetly gone nuts.
             • Ed …

               13 December 2017 at 3:48 pm

               Asking him a specific issue is a sure way to stop him rambling on.
           • dv 3.1.1.1.2.2

             14 December 2017 at 7:30 am

             You win ed. No reply from James.
       • savenz 3.1.1.2

         13 December 2017 at 9:20 am

         And as soon as Labour and Greens start implementing popular policy like cleaning up National’s water debacle and National’s assets sales and land to overseas buyers leaving many in NZ homeless, and the so called war on P from the Natz, more like enablement of P from National, then Labour and Greens will improve on 46%.

         Even though Jacinda is considered a ‘communist’ by right wingers she still beats Bill in preferred PM. What does that say?
         • cleangreen 3.1.1.2.1

           13 December 2017 at 3:45 pm

           Never were more true words spoken savenz – friend. 100%
   • Ad 3.2

     13 December 2017 at 8:06 am

     Nye Bevan, founder of the British NHS:

     “I’m real proud of the National Health Service.
     It’s a real piece of socialism.
     It’s a real piece of Christianity too.”

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0
     • james 3.2.1

       13 December 2017 at 8:09 am

       and its failing:
       https://www.dailywire.com/news/14470/7-things-you-need-know-about-britains-failing-aaron-bandler#
       • Ad 3.2.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 8:28 am

         Certainly as you would expect after being run down for that many years.

         Nothing a few billion dollars wouldn’t fix.

         The best lesson we ever learned in my era was the stupid temporary market of ACC that Labour under Lange brought in, and reverse it back to a full monopoly under Clark.
         • Ed 3.2.1.1.1

           13 December 2017 at 8:35 am

           Just checked James’s source.
           Now I get where his unhinged views come from.
           • Ad 3.2.1.1.1.1

             13 December 2017 at 8:39 am

             James isn’t wrong.

             And our health system isn’t always something to write home about.

             But it’s sure better than the capitalist version.
             • SpaceMonkey …

               13 December 2017 at 1:48 pm

               Our health system also suffers from chronic underfunding. Since the election I’ve now had a look inside CCDHB and it is shocking. I am convinced that staff are making treatment decisions prioritising economics over effectiveness. This not due to staff incompetence. It is a straight out response to being under resourced. Our hospitals are staffed ny heroes and it’s unsustainable.

               I’m currently sourcing diabetes-related foot amputation rates as an example of this. So many of them are unnecessary if the intervention and the right treatment are provided earlier. Worse still many of the diabetes patients ending up being admitted for an amputation have never even seen a podiatrist.
       • Ed 3.2.1.2

         13 December 2017 at 8:31 am

         A commentary on your news source.

         ‘The Daily Wire is a politically conservative American news and opinion website founded in 2015 by conservative political commentator Ben Shapiro, who currently serves as Editor-in-Chief. The Daily Wire presents news with a right wing bias in reporting and wording. Virtually every story favors the right and denigrates the left. The Daily Wire has also published false information such as this and this from Ben Shapiro. The Daily Wire is a far right biased news source that is Mixed for factual reporting. (9/2/2016)

         Updated (8/16/2017)’

         https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

         Ben Shapiro sounds like a piece of work….
         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro
         • James 3.2.1.2.1

           13 December 2017 at 8:39 am

           That is (generally) a fair comment.

           However they have listed numerous sources and provided links in this specific article (from a wide variety of sources).

           But if you google NHS failing you will get thousands of other links to read – plenty pointing out just how screwed it is.
           • Ed 3.2.1.2.1.1

             13 December 2017 at 8:42 am

             Yes and I wonder if the reports are written by your Breitbart friends.
             If you want to know WHY it is failing, then look no further than your Tory friends and their plans for it to fail.
             The NHS crisis is manufactured by deliberate policies of cuts – so your Breitbart friends’ owners can make a fortune out of the privatisation of UK medicine.

             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe4Tlccbx58
             • Rosemary McDonald …

               13 December 2017 at 12:16 pm

               The ultimate aim is this…

               https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/99807252/fairfax-media-nib-launch-health-insurance-partnership-done

               “”We believe there is a real opportunity for private health insurance to help reduce the ever increasing health cost burden on the Government by helping facilitate access to healthcare for Kiwis,” said nib chief executive Rob Hennin.

               We are committed to creating new businesses and services that we know Kiwis will value and we’re open to talking with other businesses about opportunities where we can partner to leverage our competitive strengths,” Fairfax Media chief executive Sinead Boucher said.

               Done was an example of the publisher’s commitment to find new ways to fund journalism in New Zealand by partnering with industry experts and leveraging the marketing strength Fairfax’s audience brings, Boucher said.

               “We think offering comprehensive and cost effective health insurance is another way we can service our monthly audience of 3.4 million New Zealanders.””

               Service?

               yeah, right.
               • mpledger …

                 13 December 2017 at 1:18 pm

                 Interestingly enough, people with private insurance use more public health resources than those without private insurance. Therefore, private insurers should pay a premium to the government for the extra burden they place on the public health system.
                 • Rosemary McDonald …

                   13 December 2017 at 1:43 pm

                   …you make a very interesting point there mpledger.

                   A mate used to work as a health care assistant in the operating theatre of a busy public hospital.

                   The number of patients coming into theatre from the private hospital over the road was quite significant.
           • Pat 3.2.1.2.1.2

             13 December 2017 at 9:24 am

             https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/29/pfi-crippling-nhs

             “Second, we can still afford to pay for universal healthcare – but only if we stop using NHS funds to prop up banks and equity investors.”

             So will the (private) market be more efficient?…..the evidence is clear, less reach and inflated cost…but great returns!

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

             Stick your PPP’s where the sun dont shine.
             • Peter …

               13 December 2017 at 2:51 pm

               I think this man says it all pity he never became PM
               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-P4mx1FLU
               • Pat …

                 13 December 2017 at 3:46 pm

                 on the strength of that brief encounter i’m inclined to agree….could Jacinda Adern become a contemporary kiwi version?
     • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.2

       13 December 2017 at 8:45 am

       Phillip Bagshaw…on why (NZ) doctors need to speak out.

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018623967/philip-bagshaw-why-doctors-need-to-speak-out

       “Things were going pretty well until the 1990s for us, and at that stage neoliberalism really was the order of the day with managerialism in medicine.

       “Medicine took a terrible hit, everybody knew that at the time, but very few people did, publically at least, anything about it. They may have complained behind closed doors, they certainly didn’t come out in the media and complain.”

       When the age of austerity started to bite in the 1990s, Bagshaw and some of his colleagues openly questioned the philosophy and its consequences.

       “We wrote a book called The Patients Are Dying, which chronicled the deaths and problems occurring at Christchurch Hospital, and some of us were threatened with unemployment and all sorts of other things.”

       Bagshaw says he tried to voice his concerns through traditional professional channels.

       “All of which I found didn’t help. It was just not possible to change things. Whilst you can think globally, you must act locally in order to make change.”
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 3.3

     13 December 2017 at 8:21 am

     The following extract is from the editorial in the British Medical Journal. You can see how the Herald has screwed the content to get its own anti-commie, red under the bedders, like James, all excited.

     As Terry Eagleton argued in Why Marx Was Right (2011), Marxism isn’t about violent world revolution, tyrannical dictatorships, or unachievable utopian fantasies. I think Marx matters to medicine for three reasons. First, Marx offers a critique of society, a method of analysis, that enables explication of disquieting trends in modern medicine and public health—privatised health economies, the power of conservative professional elites, the growth of techno-optimism, philanthrocapitalism, the importance of political determinants of health, global health’s neoimperialist tendencies, product-driven definitions of disease, and the exclusion of stigmatised communities from our societies. These aspects of 21st-century health care are all better investigated and interpreted through a Marxist lens. Second, Marxism defends a set of values. The free self-determination of the individual, an equitable society, the end of exploitation, deepening possibilities for public participation in shaping collective choices, refusing to accept the fixity of human nature and believing in our capacity to change, and keeping a sense of the interdependence and indivisibility of our common humanity. Finally, Marxism is a call to engage, an invitation to join the struggle to protect the values we share. You don’t have to be a Marxist to appreciate Marx. As the centenary of his birth approaches, we might agree that medicine has a great deal to learn from Marx.

     http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32805-2/fulltext

     Pooling of resources to achieve a common purpose is not inherently bad, James. It is what you would expect from most groups of animals.
     • ianmac 3.3.1

       13 December 2017 at 8:56 am

       Jonathon Coleman used the Commie angle in Question Time yesterday. What a ratbag.
       • cleangreen 3.3.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 3:49 pm

         Coleman has blood on his hands by screwing down public health and causing the deaths of so many he should be tarred and feathered.
     • Psycho Milt 3.3.2

       13 December 2017 at 9:43 am

       That list of values:

       The free self-determination of the individual, an equitable society, the end of exploitation, deepening possibilities for public participation in shaping collective choices, refusing to accept the fixity of human nature and believing in our capacity to change, and keeping a sense of the interdependence and indivisibility of our common humanity.

       Everything after that first one fills right-wingers with fear and loathing. I’m not surprised the Herald editor shat his pants.
   • Incognito 3.4

     13 December 2017 at 8:25 am

     Vogue-Gate is just another silly sideshow propagated by those who want us to avoid the real news at any cost.

     This is news we should be paying attention to: Gender ‘pinkwashing’ at WTO bodes ill for trade agenda – Kelsey
     • Ed 3.4.1

       13 December 2017 at 8:32 am

       James wants to avoid the real news.
   • Editractor 3.5

     13 December 2017 at 10:44 am

     The Lancet, a British medical journal, not THE British Medical Journal.

     If you can’t even get the basic citation right, how perfunctory was the rest of your reading?
     • james 3.5.1

       13 December 2017 at 11:10 am

       A small but (indeed) important difference.

       But the rest of the point remains.
4. patricia bremner 4

   13 December 2017 at 8:10 am

   Oh yes. The latest Meme is Jacinda is a communist. LOL.

   She is a socialist lite if anything.

   Reds under the bed, all Hanna Barbera again!! Wonder who is paying now for the dancing cossacks?

   Meanwhile the reforms keep coming. Not quickly enough for some, but great 50 days in.
5. james 5

   13 December 2017 at 8:10 am

   A not so subtle comment aimed at Jacinda from our Australian friends.

   I guess she missed the diplomacy part of the job induction.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11958367
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 5.1

     13 December 2017 at 8:30 am

     Sledging is something that the Australians are good at.
     • Ed 5.1.1

       13 December 2017 at 8:33 am

       James believes what the Herald writes………
       • James 5.1.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 8:41 am

         Point out something inaccurate in the link I posted ?
         • Ed 5.1.1.1.1

           13 December 2017 at 8:47 am

           I prefer to discuss issues James.
           • James 5.1.1.1.1.1

             13 December 2017 at 8:50 am

             History proves that not to be a fact.

             But let’s discuss what’s wrong with believing that article linked to in the herald?

             Do you not believe it?

             Do you have anything to back up your reasoning ?
             • Ed …

               13 December 2017 at 8:51 am

               https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-12-2017/#comment-1425565
         • Nick 5.1.1.1.2

           13 December 2017 at 8:53 am

           James, you are the inaccuracy in the link you posted.
           • james 5.1.1.1.2.1

             13 December 2017 at 9:04 am

             So I take it you folk cannot find anything inaccurate in the link – and have to resort to little insults to deflect from the issue.

             Jacinda is a walking trainwreck with Australia.
             • Ed …

               13 December 2017 at 9:10 am

               What is your view on our levels of inequality?
               What are the solutions?

               This is called a serious political issue, James.
               Are you able to discuss this?

               http://www.inequality.org.nz/understand/
               http://www.closingthegap.org.nz/
               http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/01/revealed-new-zealand-s-growing-wealth-gap-fracturing-society.html
             • red-blooded …

               13 December 2017 at 11:28 am

               James, I think it’s interesting that Barnaby Joyce is (in the article you so helpfully linked to) demonstrating exactly the behaviour he is so helpfully warning Jacinda Ardern against:
               1) Interfering in another country’s domestic affairs (how is it his business if we offer to take refugees that his country has refused?);
               2) Using the media to talk to another government, rather than contacting them directly. He says, “And if you are going to talk to them at all, talk to them quietly and discreetly, off the record, not via telephone, not via TV.” (and note that Ardern DID speak to Turnball directly whereas Joyce is using Newstalk ZB, as relayed by The Herald).

               Oh, the irony!
             • Ed …

               13 December 2017 at 12:00 pm

               James clearly approves of some of the most racist policies in the world towards refugees.
               No wonder. His Breitbart friends told him to think like that.

               This is what James supports.

               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ZIXbh_Kg0
             • patricia bremner …

               13 December 2017 at 12:19 pm

               5.11121 James, Sutton is not all Australia. Most Aussies think Jacinda is great, especially when compared with the views held by Turnbull and Abbot.
               • james …

                 13 December 2017 at 12:39 pm

                 “Most Aussies” really?
             • Stuart Munro …

               13 December 2017 at 6:25 pm

               Hardly – though the last men standing as the Turnbull government shambles its way towards the dustbin of history are desperately looking for anyone else to blame.
         • Psycho Milt 5.1.1.1.3

           13 December 2017 at 9:46 am

           Point out something inaccurate in the link I posted ?

           Oh, there’s nothing inaccurate in there – it makes a pretty clear case that Australia is currently run by the most appalling shits and Ardern needs to take seriously the threat that said appalling shits pose to NZ. It’s just not clear how you come to see it as some kind of indictment of Ardern.
           • McFlock 5.1.1.1.3.1

             13 December 2017 at 2:47 pm

             I’ve said it before and I’ll say it agian: every year NZ should find the two biggest jerks in the Australian government, and grant them a one-year-only, unrenouncable citizenship to NZ.

             Kepp your friends close, make your enemies citizens 🙂
             • Psycho Milt …

               13 December 2017 at 6:40 pm

               Dutton definitely needs an urgent grant of NZ citizenship. The one-year-only thing is also a good idea, as there’d be a significant risk of him being deported here for poor character.
     • cleangreen 5.1.2

       13 December 2017 at 3:54 pm

       And notice James uses the NZ Herald as his stable for “truth” ha ha that is a frigging joke the NZ herald has been likened to “The Daily Fail”

       So we should call james paper as the “NZ Herald – Mail Fail”
6. Ed 6

   13 December 2017 at 9:27 am

   An application to remove 18 million litres of water a day from a small Bay of Plenty town and send it offshore has been rejected by the Bay of Plenty Regional Council.

   NZ Aquifer managing director Roydon Hartnett, who is representing the two companies, said the council advised it of a “very minor administrative change” where they asked it to separate the extraction and drilling activities. The company would change it before resubmitting the application this week.

   Hartnett said this would slightly delay plans as they had been expecting a decision this year.

   “We are now hopeful of hearing positive news from the regional council by mid-January.”

   Hartnett was behind the two previous attempts at setting up water bottling plants in South Waikato and Ashburton.

   The latest proposal is more ambitious than his previous attempts as it wants to take almost three times the amount of water Hartnett’s company Blue Spring Limited proposed extracting from Putaruru’s Blue Spring in the Waihou River.

   NZ Pure Blue Springs Ltd withdrew its application in October after Raukawa Iwi refused to support it because of the significant adverse affects to the spring.

   http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/director-of-water-bottling-plant-has-yet-another-attempt/

   Pure Blue overseas-owned

   The company behind a proposal to drain millions of litres of water a day from a popular spring to sell overseas has revealed it is only 39 per cent New Zealand-owned.

   NZ Pure Blue, also known as NZ Pure Blue Springs Limited, has lodged a resource consent application to drain 6.9 million litres form the Putaruru Blue Spring in the Waikato to bottle locally and offshore.

   A source informed the NZ Herald that the company told members of the local iwi, the Raukawa Settlement Trust, at a meeting in Tokoroa on Monday night that 61 per cent of the company was owned by overseas investors including 10 per cent Australian and some Chinese.
   • cleangreen 6.1

     13 December 2017 at 4:29 pm

     Thanks for this Ed,

     The water bandits are still coming are they?

     They are taking water from the ground water or out of “deep well ejection?

     If they take water from the deep aquifer areas and leave the shallow aquifer water for municipal authorities because the water quality is so bad that it will be rejected by overseas experts seeking ‘pristine water’ so there is where these “water bandits” are doing now.

     We must have them all rejected from our country as also the water is sent by trucks over our roads to ports ruining our roads and residential areas near roads they transport our prinstine water.

     So we are being screwed all directions by these “water bandits” and paying to fix the roads they are wrecking too????.

     Are we stupid to allow this?
7. Zorb6 7

   13 December 2017 at 9:53 am

   Attn Penny Bright.Watching a recent video about Key,I saw when you challenged him at a public meeting in Papatoetoe about your O.I.A request regarding,exactly who NZ has borrowed billions off.
   He was his usual evasive self,but did you ever find out?
8. Ed 8

   13 December 2017 at 11:55 am

   Funny that.
   James never seems to want to debate the issue of inequality in New Zealand.
   He goes silent or moves to another thread with another smear.

   https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-12-2017/#comment-1425579
   • James 8.1

     13 December 2017 at 12:12 pm

     Sometimes I just cannot be bothered with people that type hysterical shit like you do.

     other times – I’m busy with one of the businesses and have better things to do.

     Other times I’m too busy laughing at you.
   • Draco T Bastard 8.2

     13 December 2017 at 12:20 pm

     James is happy with the inequality as are most RWNJs. They think it’s normal rather than the sociopathy that it is.
     • cleangreen 8.2.1

       13 December 2017 at 3:58 pm

       James loves misery that shows clearly now.

       Misery is his second name.

       He is now deeply affected by the every day appearance of labour policies being rollled out and is freaking out about it all.

       Get over it as we have had a gut full of your constant wining.
       • James 8.2.1.1

         13 December 2017 at 5:29 pm

         My middle name is George.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1.1.1

           13 December 2017 at 5:46 pm

           I know speculation is against the policy, but James Misery George desperately need an appropriately double-barrelled surname.
9. Ed 9

   13 December 2017 at 11:57 am

   The Herald thinks Jacinda Ardern is a Marxist.

   Surely a misnomer.
10. Ed 10

    13 December 2017 at 12:21 pm

    James finds poverty a laughing matter.
    Like Paula Bennett.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdFOhwo48IY
    • james 10.1

      13 December 2017 at 12:43 pm

      You seem to have a high opinion of your ability to know my thoughts on matters.

      If you want to state my view on a topic – then link to something I have said that supports it.

      Linking to something different and then stating that it is my view is dishonest at best, unhinged at worst.

      And is simple (and not very effective) trolling.
      • Ed 10.1.1

        13 December 2017 at 12:55 pm

        Please come out and tell us your view on inequality in NZ.
        Would love to hear it.
        • cleangreen 10.1.1.1

          13 December 2017 at 4:00 pm

          No point asking Ed, he wont come clean, as he loves misery.
          • James 10.1.1.1.1

            13 December 2017 at 5:32 pm

            I must admit – it is clear that a few of you lead miserable lives.
11. Morrissey 11

    13 December 2017 at 2:48 pm

    When Obama was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, we never heard the end of it. Maybe that farce explains the silence when such an award is won by someone who actually deserves it….

    https://www.rt.com/uk/412667-corbyn-chomsky-peace-prize-geneva/
12. Peroxide Blonde 12

    13 December 2017 at 2:57 pm

    Jeremy Corbyn will lose the next election in the UK and the Tories will win.
    The Tories cannot be doing any worse than they are at present: each and every minister and PM May screw up at every opportunity.
    Yet Corbyn is behind in the polls,

    “Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour messiah for the many not the few, who still manages to straddle both sides of the Brexit fence.
    Amid that fiasco, the concealment of impact studies, accelerating inflation and stagnant wages, his party should be streaking ahead. The latest YouGov poll puts the Tories in front by a point.”
    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-city-of-culture-farce-pretty-much-sums-up-brexit-1.3324608
13. Ed 13

    13 December 2017 at 3:55 pm

    Arctic climate ‘report card’ reveals ‘rapid and dramatic changes’ to the polar environment.

    ‘The devastating impact of climate change in the polar regions has been confirmed by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) annual Arctic Report Card

    Authors from the American scientific agency concluded that 2017 was not a record-breaking year in terms of climate extremes, there was still evidence that the Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the global average.

    The widespread environmental changes that arise as a result of this warming are beginning to define “an emerging new normal” in the region, the report said.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/arctic-climate-change-report-sea-temperature-rise-melting-ice-caps-polar-environment-global-warming-a8106161.html
    • Ed 13.1

      13 December 2017 at 3:58 pm

      Climate scientists response

      Eric Holthaus‏

      ‘Reading this, I feel physically sick. I feel so anxious. I’m not sure how many more years or months I’m going to be able to work daily on climate change. Today is one of those days.’

      http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/Report-Card-2017

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzEZaazTe0
14. Ed 14

    13 December 2017 at 4:02 pm

    More blackmail from Team New Zealand.
    I’m going to pick up my toys and go home.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/12/67845/superyachts-in-the-balance-in-auckland-cup-call

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0RHyPPXCoQ
15. Ed 15

    13 December 2017 at 4:05 pm

    Is the most obnoxious MP around?
    Hearing this comfortably off woman and her faux concern for the poor makes me feel sick.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/09/16/wow-how-much-does-louise-upston-hate-women-why-sacking-the-minister-for-women-shouldnt-be-the-only-minister-to-go/

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11440715

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/heavily-criticised-louise-upston-loses-womens-affairs-portfolio-new-minister-paula-bennett

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11768159

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckfUILnsc20
    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      13 December 2017 at 5:52 pm

      If the speaker ruled that ad hominem arguments are unparliamentary, the National Party would have a serious problem.
16. greywarshark 16

    13 December 2017 at 4:49 pm

    Ed
    Any excuse to play the Messiah is welcome. And that about the houses is one of the better excuses.
    • greywarshark 16.1

      13 December 2017 at 5:16 pm

      Well that disappeared so I’ll put it up as it’s a great bit of Christmas music.

      Nice presentation by great choir with young boy sopranos at Kings College, Cambridge and they are really throwing themselves into it with verve.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNy289k6Oc
17. greywarshark 17

    13 December 2017 at 5:25 pm

    I will be unpopular but will give the Portsmouth Sinfonia’s version an airing.
    There is a lot of goodwill going into performing this music, and by the audience. A lot of the choir turned up at the Albert Hall on the day and swelled the numbers.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkPGByh_F50
18. eco maori 18

    13 December 2017 at 6:58 pm

    Yes a lot of my elderly clients are spending Christmas by them selves I talk to them about it. That is the reason I will have a plan to have a culture that will encourage vist from our children an mokos. Many thanks to all my viewers for giving ECO the Mana to advocate for Lady’s equality human rights an OUR environmental sustainability for our World. Many thanks to all the people who have got my back at home in NZ you show that the good logical Kiwi people are still prevalent in OUR beautiful country. Most of our international stars display these qualities. Ka pai
19. eco maori 19

    13 December 2017 at 7:36 pm

    Many thanks to to all the good information and guidance my fellow bloggers post here on the standard I have a couple of Yodas the first star Wars movie was released when I was 8 Im a Sci fi fan just to busy to watch last time I went to the cinema I fell asleep in 10 minutes my wife was not happy lol.
    Kai kaha
    • greywarshark 19.1

      13 December 2017 at 7:49 pm

      Have a good Christmas eco maori, hope you can get a dvd Christmas special or borrow some and then you can fall asleep in front of as many movies as you feel like.
20. greywarshark 20

    13 December 2017 at 8:41 pm

    I suppose everyone has seen this nasty sour, threatening little piece from the man with the nasty, sour face – Barnaby Joyce. Thank goodness he has broken his ties with this country. Australia is the place for him for sure.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/13/barnaby-joyce-says-new-zealand-should-back-off-on-offer-to-resettle-refugees
    • cleangreen 20.1

      13 December 2017 at 10:01 pm

      There is something about that name Joyce that is seeming to be aggressive as our “Steven Joyce” is another one like “nasty sour, threatening little piece from the man with the nasty, sour face – Barnaby Joyce”
      • greywarshark 20.1.1

        14 December 2017 at 1:51 pm

        While looking for something entirely different I found a film called Barnaby Jones.
        It must have been in his Mum and Dad’s mind when they named Ozzie Barnaby Joyce.
        The blurb about it :
        ‘Barnaby Jones (TV Series 1973–1980) – IMDb
        http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069557/
        Crime · The exploits of milk-swilling, geriatric private eye Barnaby Jones. ..’

        Milk-swilling and geriatric. Sounds like a lot more laughs than Ozzie Joyce.
21. greywarshark 21

    14 December 2017 at 11:03 am

    cleangreen
    Related? How many in politics have connections with others in leading roles, or previous politicians? Family lines, professionals beget the same, tradies the same? Roger Douglas and Bill Anderton are a pair with a family connection for instance.
    And able to look out for each other. Bill English has brothers in positions of authority.

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