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Open mike 13/06/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:50 am, June 13th, 2014 - 140 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

140 comments on “Open mike 13/06/2014 ”

  1. NzJackson 1

    ”There’s a wonderful 1930s song, On To Every Life Some Rain Must Fall, and for [Internet Mana Party] the rain is still falling,”

    Ex 2011 Mana candidate Clinton Dearlove shall stand in 2014 Te Tai Tokerau (TTT) election was announced earlier this week. This announcement has the ability to put an end to the Internet Mana Party chances in this years September 20 election.

    Hone’s majority in the TTT 2008 election was 32%, 2011 TTT by-election 9%, 2011 TTT general election was 6%. In the 2011 TTT general election 40% of Hone’s voters did not support Mana, and the number of serious candidates was 3, Labour, Maori Party, and Mana.

    The candidates so far to my knowledge are Kelvin Davis (Labour), Hone Harawira (Mana), Te Hira Paenga (Maori), and Clinton Dearlove (Independent), this in provides pressure on Hone 6% majority.

    However in 2011 Clinton Dearlove topped the vote in the internal Mana members election, out performing Sue Bradford. Clinton is highly likely to draw numerous votes from Hone increasing significantly the chances of Labours Kelvin Davis winning the seat.

    My advice for the Internet Mana party is put your 4 million towards Annette Sykes Waiariki electorate.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=289979404513586 and

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Dearlove, a relative unknown in the electorate, will mainly take votes away from Kelvin Davis anyhow.

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        not Hone as the Jackson suggests? IF he takes from bnoth, could he win, or would it allow MP to slip through the middle?

      • weka 1.1.2

        2011 he stood in Te Tai Tonga, where he came fourth behind Labour, Māori, Greens. How does his standing in Te Tai Tonga translate into support in Te Tai Tokerau?


        “However in 2011 Clinton Dearlove topped the vote in the internal Mana members election, out performing Sue Bradford. Clinton is highly likely to draw numerous votes from Hone increasing significantly the chances of Labours Kelvin Davis winning the seat.”

        Which begs the question of why he is now trying to undermine Mana and whether voters in Te Tai Tokerau will get this.

        One pretty straight forward questions is this – “Clinton Dearlove, who would you support in govt if you are elected?”

        There is no credible answer to that. If he supports a left wing govt, then why stand against Harawira? If he supports a right wing govt, he’s not going to take Harawira’s votes. If he won’t say, then he’s not going to support a left wing govt.

        • Chooky


        • bad12

          Clinton tho, to give Him credit did poll ahead of the Aotearoa Legalize Cannabis Party, i doubt Clinton has ever come up the ‘winner’ in any contest except maybe the odd lolly scramble as a child,

          i doubt Clinton will have in the Te Tai Tokerau any more success that He had in the more southern electorate of Te Tai Tonga as there is nothing to suggest that He will take more votes from the Mana leader than He will all the other candidates,

          Beaten into 4th place here in Te Tai Tonga in 2011 by the Greens Roimata Langsbury in both the Party and Electorate vote is hardly an indication that Clinton is headed for political stardom, and, more suggestive of a political life of carting the carpet bag from election to election and electorate to electorate saying look at me in increasing desperation,

          What the clarion call of gaining more votes than Sue Bradford in an internal Party vote in 2011 has to do with, well with the price of fish is as yet beyond my limited ability to fathom, it certainly didn’t advance Him any further up the Party pecking order with Bradford befor the fluffy toys got sent flying ahead of Clinton on the Party List…

          • Colonial Viper

            hardly an indication that Clinton is headed for political stardom, and, more suggestive of a political life of carting the carpet bag from election to election

            yer funny

        • Tracey

          i was wondering the same thing weka.

          Ms turia took her personal grudge against clark to its conclusion, supporting nats

          • Colonial Viper

            Didn’t hurt that a Ministerial BMW Limo was part of the deal

            • srylands

              They are hardly limos. They are BMW 7 series cars.

            • alwyn

              She gave up a Ministerial Limo when she quit Labour of course. At the time she was a Minister in the Labour Government.
              Don’t you remember the cringe-worthy photo of her crouching down in the Limo as it left Premier House after her blow-up with Helen? Helen persuaded her it was the way to avoid the press.
              Obviously if a Crown Limo really mattered Tariana would have stayed in the Labour Party.

              • North

                Speaking of Toryana Torya and limos – I recall the saddest reflection of stubborn yet distressed isolation ever – TT in the ministerial BMW idling slowly around and around and around the grounds of the big conference centre in Lower Hutt where the big water hui (?) was being held. To which the Maori Party had not been invited.

                Finally found a back door entrance and arrived late, the beret she affected Che Guevara-like embroidered ‘Tino Rangatiratanga’. As if to atone I guess.

                The wages of sitting somewhere in the periphery of the table of that splendid guardian of the Maori nation – hahaha – Mr Higher ShonKey Standards. Whom as knows the world (except Crosby Textor) considers as valuable the Maori heart only when disingenuously deployed as an accessory to his ugly neoliberal korowai.

    • Tracey 1.2

      That’s the song John banks quoted when found guilty of electoral fraud…

      That aside, NZJackson

      Is Clinton now a maori party supporter or a Labour supporter? I ask, because if you are right he is going to split Hone’s vote, which will see Hone struggle, but your guy might not win, which makes it a win for Labour or MP. Is that what Clinton wants?

      Can you post some policy or principle views of Clinton. Much appreciated.

    • veutoviper 1.3

      Dearlove provides some insight in his short campaign 2 minute video on his Facebook page (links at NZJackson’s comment at 1).

      It seems that his approach is to get Three for One – that is three TTT people into Parliament on the basis of hinself winning the electorate seat; Davis getting in on the Labour list, and words to the effect that Hone with $4m via the Internet Mana alliance also gettiing in because of the money.

      Quite how his latter reasoning works in respect of Hone is not clear. If Hone loses in TTT, then presumably Annette Sykes would have to win Waiariki and/or the Internet Mana party would need at least 5%.

      HIs platform expressed in the video is based on five principles – health, education, employment etc – but undefined as to what he is seeking to achieve in these areas and how.

      • Tracey 1.3.1


      • bad12 1.3.2

        While i doubt InternetMana can top the 5% thresh-hold in the race for the Party vote, i would not be shocked if they did, the ”novel” in election vehicles have scored highly with the electorate in previous elections…

        • srylands

          Yes never under estimate stupidity.

          • bad12

            So good of you to come SSLands, i see you have regained the ability to ”babble”, have to watch those knocks to the head chap, losing the one feature that stands you aside from the rest of the human race would be a major tragedy don’t you think…

          • North

            SSLands do you no longer have any regard to the encyclopaedic dictionary of your own hand ?

            A fabulous work by all accounts, singlehandedly penned during your stint as a diplomat, economist, 4 star Michelin chef, law clerk, pump attendant and general remittance man on Diego Garcia all those years ago.

            Said what is more to have guided George Dubya Bush through whatever Ivy League seat of learning his daddy purchased.

            Please……the word is ‘mis-under-estimate’. And no more rudeness either !

    • Ant 1.4

      Which internal members election is this? First I’ve heard of it.

  2. Ron 2

    Last week there was a news announcement that Radio NZ was going to have further restructuring and changes to programming etc and that staff were being called to be told details. That was a week ago and I have not seen any sign of what was decided and what programs are changing. Have I missed something, does anyone know what happened. Hopefully it has nothing to do with Scary Mary being off air presently?

    • i’m worried about their plans to dilute scary-mary..

      ..with some middle-of-the-road mora..

      ..like a big glob of milk..in yr ordered/preferred short-black

      ..i mean..mora has his place..but it ain’t teamed up with scary-mary..

      ..will mora offer back/neck-rubs/chammomile-tea after scary-mary has monstered them..?

      ..will this be his role..?

      or..he could (politely) threaten interview-subjects with being handed over to scary-mary..if they don’t fess-up to him..

      ..a good-cop/bad-cop routine..

      ..he could have a big red button..(..’i’m hovering..!..i’m hovering..!..)

      ..and of course…getting rid of scary-mary..must be on griffins’ masterplan to drag radio new zealand to the right/into irrelevancy..

      • Chooky 2.1.1

        yes Mary Wilson is good!….and she isn’t that scarey…just asks questions which should be asked

        Morning Report is a dozy now …i hardly listen to Mr Smoothy..it has lost its punch and flair and class…

        Suzy Ferguson also puts me to sleep…and she is erratic ( Kim Hill in her heyday was Rottweiler scarey ….and riveting!)

        • phillip ure

          ..’scary’ is used in the most respectful way..

          ..and yes..the over-unctions to the powers-that-be of/from morning report..

          ..make it unlistenable..

          • David H

            And when the numbers drop the Govt can close it down pointing to the declining listnership caused by the new announcers. Job Done.

        • Lanthanide

          She is scary in that she attacks almost all of her interviewees, even ones that don’t deserve it.

        • framu

          “yes Mary Wilson is good!”

          really? – I find her to be one the worst interviewers they have.

          exactly how many of her interviews descend into her interupting in order to ask the same question… over and over again?

          shit – i even cheered on brownlee when he pulled her up on that.

          • Lanthanide

            She can often get to the point of the issue and expose how unprepared or hypocritical an interviewee is being. But there’s a large amount of collateral damage in the process.

            Despite what many around here think, I actually quite like Guyon in the morning. His interview with David Seymour and Michael Wood about Epsom this morning was a good example of what I like about him.

            I think too many people around here are seeing him as biased when really he’s just playing ‘devils advocate’ and asking hard questions – and he does ask hard questions of those on the left or the right.

            • framu

              “‘devils advocate”

              sure – but much like the “im not really this thick, im asking this for those who are” approach i wish they would indicate that a bit – would only take a second and could well change the tone of the interview for the better, for everyone

              and sure wilson can get to the point of an issue – but by that time ive already screamed at the radio and turned it off to avoid chucking it across the room

              Theres better ways to get there than by repeating yourself in order to get the same answer

    • veutoviper 2.2

      I recall hearing that too, but cannot find any links etc to last week’s announcement on the RNZ website. There is nothing in their press releases in their media section – http://www.radionz.co.nz/media

      The only item in the media section about the changes to programming is this announcement on 12 May 2014

      Simon Mercep takes over from Jim Mora as host of Afternoons on Radio New Zealand National from 1pm to 4pm this afternoon in the first stage of a two-step process of change for the network’s afternoon and drive time news programming.

      Jim Mora continues to host The Panel from 4pm to 5pm, a very popular segment with the biggest station share of afternoon radio listening in New Zealand. With Jim Mora at the microphone, The Panel has grown its share of listenership by almost 40% in the last 6 years.

      From Monday 7th July, Jim Mora and Mary Wilson will combine their complementary broadcasting talents as co-hosts of Checkpoint, another of Radio New Zealand’s number one ranked day-parts.

      The tandem hosting of Checkpoint will use Jim Mora’s presentation skills to introduce a new dimension to the sound of the strong news based programme.

      While the overall sound of Checkpoint will change with dual hosting, the programme will not change editorially. The focus will remain 100% news driven and Checkpoint will continue to give over 200,000 listeners the most authoritative and complete summary of the day’s news available in New Zealand.

      Months ago I remember reading another release which I have tried several times since to find without success, to the effect that Mora would join Mary Wilson after she comes back from extended leave in June/July.

      When I first read that now lost release, my impressions were that all was not well with Mora and others (eg Wilson) not being happy about the changes – and that Mora retaining The Panel might be part of employment contract negotiations or similar rather than straight programming decisions. It would not surprise me if such manouvring/negotiations have been going on behind the scenes in the interim – hence the delay in Mora joining Wilson on Checkpoint rather than this happening back in May when Mercep took over the 1 – 4pm section of Afternoons. (In practice, Mora comes on at about 3.45pm, not 4pm.)

      • Lanthanide 2.2.1

        Seems to me that they wanted a clean-sweep on Morning Report, had to find something for Mercep to do and the rest were bumped together to accommodate.

        I’ve only heard a few bits of Afternoons twice with Mercep, but it’s terrible.

  3. (the herald seems to have relaxed their comment-guidelines..

    ..they posted this rejoinder to the latest spin/lie from that wannabe-acceptable-gatekeeper edwards-the-younger..

    ..edwards just told this anti-harawira absolute lie/pile of stinking-bullshit..

    ..and him a bloody ‘academic’..eh..?

    ..ya hafta feel for his students..eh..?.)

    ..here is the comment:..

    *..could you please stop bending the truth/re-writing history..

    “.. Noting, Harawira’s weary interjection that he was still the leader of the alliance during Harr?’s IP leadership announcement’..”

    that was just the opposite of ‘weary’..it was a one-liner/joke..(in itself showing harawiras’ delight at/respect for harre leading the internet party..

    ..your ‘weary’ claim could not be further from the truth..

    ..please cease and desist..*

    ..and now that the herald is printing the unpackings of the bullshit from edwards-the-younger..

    ..i might pay some more attention..and call him out when needed..

    ..and him purporting to be ‘an academic’..eh..?

    • Exactly phil – the weary claim is the opposite of the truth imo – delight and humour, the hallmarks of success – the IMP has made the right very very scared – now we need to deliver the votes!!!

      • phillip ure 3.1.1

        and that is such an easily-provable..(watch the vid..) lying/twisted-attempt to smear harawira..

        ..(edwards:..putting the ‘yellow’ in ‘yellow-journalism’..)

        ..edwards deserves a complaint to the press-watchdog..

        ..don’t they have censures against that sort of think..?

        ..and the more i think about it..the more it pisses me off..

        ..lying toad..!

        ..and don’t universities have some code of conduct rules for their ‘academics’..?

        ..i’m sure they would cover using the cloak of authority of teaching at a university..

        ..as a cover to pump out yellow-journalism..

        ..you’d think..?

  4. bad12 4

    You tell them Celia, dig those toes in, the Wellington City Mayor Celia Wade-Brown just got a little Greener,

    It appears that the Wellington Regional Council has ‘plans’ to replace the trolley buses here in Wellington with a mix of diesel and diesel/hybrid electric buses,

    The Mayor is saying a big No Way to that little plan, saying that its an all electric system that both the people and the climate want…

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      The all electric system is probably cheaper to run as well. Would be interesting to know why they’ve decided to go to the diesel buses. Don’t suppose you’ve got a link?

      • bad12 4.1.1

        Picked it up from the wireless, RadioNZ National this morning Draco, Stuff.co might have taken up the story by now,

        NZ Bus, who seemed to have a Rep talking on the wireless(might have been the Regional Council who are touting the ”plan”)came with an awesome amount of being prepared to debate the issue in the form of no actual figures at all when queried on air this morning,

        The network of wires from which NZ Bus gets its electricity that the Trollies are hooked up to is owned by a separate entity, i have as yet not discovered if that entity is owned by the Wellington City Council, has to also, besides the cost of the power pay a charge for using the lines,(just as us lot all have to to get a electricity supply),

        By switching to a diesel/diesel electric fleet i would assume that the whole lines infrastructure would become redundant thus allowing NZ Bus to claw even more profits from having control of the bus network,

        On what basis the Regional Council is trying to sell the idea to the City Council i am unsure of, it sure as hell wont be a decrease in rates just as NZ Bus are not proposing to pass on the savings they would make to the passengers,

        Big ups to Celia for opposing this, the planet deserves better than these profiteers…

      • bad12 4.1.2

        Have answered your query Draco, you may have to wait awhile,it got captured into moderation, like the first comment, not sure what word the computer is picking up on that ropes it in…

        • TheContrarian

          “It appears that the Wellington Regional Council has ‘plans’ to replace the trolley buses here in Wellington with a mix of diesel and diesel/hybrid electric buses,

          The Mayor is saying a big No Way to that little plan, saying that its an all electric system that both the people and the climate want…”

          Actually the council plan is to switch from trolley to hybrid then to electric.


          • Draco T Bastard

            Which is really quite stupid. If they want to change to fully electric buses that are some way off then they should keep the trolley buses until they have the electric buses to replace them with. Going to diesel buses in the interim is just wasting money.

  5. Colonial Viper 5

    Desperate for the appearance of GDP growth

    European countries will now include prostitution, drug dealing and smuggling into their official GDP statistics, boosting the appearance of economic growth.

    IMO ‘pretend and extend’ is in its final quarter


    • Lanthanide 5.1

      Pretend and extend / kicking the can down the road has a got a lot farther to go, yet.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        Well it’s all relative 🙂

        NB in places like Spain, Greece and Cyprus its already all over.

  6. bad12 6

    Did i hear the Minister on RadioNZ National this morning saying that the Law will have to be changed to ensure that the ‘recommendations’ of the Police Complaints Authority are no longer simply recommendations and are in fact ‘directives’ to the Police hierarchy as to what the remedy ”will be” in any complaint where the Authority has ruled that a remedy is required,

    i should imagine that the election will provide the current Government the perfect opportunity to bring out the brooms and swish,swish,swish, sweep the whole issue of the behavior, or lack of such,of individual Police Officers back under the carpet,

    It is criminal for an officer to Taser a person lying on the ground, to do so twice after having first immobilized the offender with pepper spray is suggestive of the actions of a psychopath and it is obvious that we have enough of those in our society now without giving them a uniform and thus legitimizing the actions of even one of such ilk…

  7. NzJackson 7

    Are we here in the Te Tai Tokerau not allowed an independent maori voice in this election?

    • weka 7.1

      Not sure what you mean by ‘allowed’ in the sentence, but tell me this, who do you want to be in the next govt?

    • Clemgeopin 7.2

      What do you mean?

    • bad12 7.3

      NzJackson, sure you are, but, intimating that there is a possibility of having Hone,Kelvin Davis, and, the current shooting star you are enamored of is a little dishonest do you not think,

      Your question would have us all believe that Hone is in some way Not an independent Maori voice, you will have to expand upon this notion to have it given any credence here,

      The Maori party has been ”the independent voice of Maori” in the Parliament for quite some time now, how do you think that’s helping in the Rohe???…

  8. debatewatcher 8

    What’s being going on at the University of Otago?

    The University of Otago has rejected claims from a member of Parliament its general election media project has been taken over by the National Party.
    The claims were made by Dunedin South Labour MP Clare Curran, after Otago University politics lecturer Dr Bryce Edwards resigned from political interview series Vote Chat because of differences with series producer James Meager and two others involved in the project.

    ”I can confirm I have been forced out of the show and that I’ve had concerns about partisan issues in the production of the show, but I’m not at liberty to comment any further,” Dr Edwards told the Otago Daily Times yesterday.


    Bryce Edwards always seems pretty straight up to me. Would be interesting to find out what’s really been going on?

    • McFlock 8.1

      Well, if it’s good enough for the nats to complain about a labour guy having out-of-work-hours meetings in TVNZ, then this complaint seems reasonable – especially when there seems to be an actual instance where professional judgement about an interview seemed to align with personal political beliefs.

  9. debatewatcher 9

    More about the Bryce Edwards/Vote Chat story from the NZ Herald:

    “I’m entirely non-partisan and a show like this does have to have some strong sense of balance”, he told the Herald late last month.

    Matters are said to have come to a head after Dr Edwards’ interview with Mr Woodhouse some weeks ago.

    In days before the interview, Mr Woodhouse had become embroiled in the controversy around businessman and National Party donor Donghua Liu and Dr Edwards asked a series of questions about the matter.

    But some involved with the show, including producer James Meager, are said to have found his approach too aggressive.

    Mr Meager has confirmed that as well as producing the show, he is Mr Woodhouse’s campaign manager but refused to comment further.

    • geoff 9.1

      From ODT article:

      In response, Mr Meager, a university staff member, said in an email he was disappointed by the ”false allegations”, and as far as he was concerned Dr Edwards left the project on good terms.

      ”At all times during Vote Chat any perceived or real conflicts of interest were declared and actively managed,” Mr Meager said.

      ”For every interview the final editorial decisions as to questioning fell with Dr Edwards as the interviewer.

      ”I also purposefully removed myself from the production of the [Immigration Minister] Michael Woodhouse interview to remove any potential conflict of interest.”

      Mr Meager has been involved in election campaigning for Mr Woodhouse, National’s Dunedin North candidate.

      Something isn’t matching up here. Maybe Bryce Edwards will respond to Meager’s claims.

      • Ergo Robertina 9.1.1

        ‘Maybe Bryce Edwards will respond to Meager’s claims.’

        In the NZ Herald story Bryce Edwards says the union is involved and he can’t comment further, so it seems he is unable to respond to Meager.
        I know who I trust though and it’s not Michael Woodhouse’s campaign manager.
        This is basically a hostile takeover of a worthy election year project.

      • McFlock 9.1.2

        ”I also purposefully removed myself from the production of the [Immigration Minister] Michael Woodhouse interview to remove any potential conflict of interest.”

        He might not have been in the room, but it seems his opinion was still made known to Edwards. The conflict of interest might have been “actively managed”, but still seems to have had an effect.

        • phillip ure

          if edwards is asking/writing the questions..and can freestyle follow-ups..

          ..and the interview is being live-streamed..

          ..i find it difficult to see what ‘control’ a director cd have over proceedings..

          ..unless the director had ultimate control over questions asked..?

          ..and cd dictate subjects to be raised or not..

          ..i mean..he isn’t doing a post-recording cut or anything..

          ..the thing is streamed live..

          ..is edwards crying ‘wolf!’..?

          • McFlock

            In days before the interview, Mr Woodhouse had become embroiled in the controversy around businessman and National Party donor Donghua Liu and Dr Edwards asked a series of questions about the matter.

            But some involved with the show, including producer James Meager, are said to have found his approach too aggressive.

            It’s a classic dick move. No official guidance or instruction on the questions beforehand, but criticism after the fact. So when thei nterviewer gets onto bigger fish like party leaders and visiting ministers, the interviewer second-guesses to avoid conflict.

            The question is whether similar criticism would have been made after a labour interview? My guess is “no”, having been around the university for a few years (like meager).
            He was a slimy fucker then, probably still is.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      Mr Meager has confirmed that as well as producing the show, he is Mr Woodhouse’s campaign manager but refused to comment further.

      So, where’s the right-wing demanding that this person be removed from his position as they did with the Labour guy in Auckland?

  10. two ww2 dots to be joined…

    ..i just linked to a french poll..taken in 1945-1994-and 2004…

    ..the question asked was :’which country made the biggest contribution to the defeat of germany..

    ..in 1945 over 70% of the french said it was the russians..

    ..by 2004 over 70% of french said it was the americans..

    ..the other dot is that at the war memorials/celebrations held recently..

    ..both obama and cameron managed to avoid even mentioning the russian-efforts..

    ..let alone inviting them to be part of that memorial..

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    Dr Joy or Mr Doom and Gloom of the NZ dairy sector?

    “The statement around freshwater in New Zealand says that things are stable or improving. Yet when I take their data and analyse it, I find that two-thirds of the sites around the country have ‘significant trends’ and of that group, two-thirds are getting worse.

    “How the hell you can turn that into stable or improving is unbelievable – it’s denying the reality.”

    This is what’s wrong with farming in this country – it’s need to deny what’s actually happening so that they can continue doing that which is causing the degradation so as to maximise profits.

  12. geoff 12

    Judith Collins, sycophant to power, in all its forms:


    Would probably make a good caption contest post?

  13. On facebook the Greens

    “Do you want to see political parties coat-tailing into Parliament? Neither do we.

    We’ve been championing honest politics in New Zealand for years, that’s why we’ll implement all of the MMP review recommendations, including scrapping the coat-tailing rule.”

    For me that sounds like a bit of an outstretched hand to labour.

    Coat-tailing – such an antiquated phrase.

    • weka 13.1

      Me, I’d see it as hypocrisy. I think I might be having my disillusionment moment re the GP. Not that it hasn’t been coming for a while.

      • phillip ure 13.1.1

        the greens did a deal with labour to allow fitzsimon to win coromandal..

        ..so where’s the moral high-horse coming from..?

        ..do they have amnesia..?

        • Colonial Viper

          funny how perspective changes when you become part of the establishment and find these annoying young whippersnappers (of which you were one not that long ago) at your heels…

          • weka

            Lol, yep. It’s always been my view that the GP would need to move mainstream in order to have any influence in parliament, and that this would open up space futhre on the left for something else to arrive. Glad to see this finally happening. I hope the GP does really well in this election, and I hope IMP do too.

            • marty mars

              The ‘honest politics’ line shows where they are at – an ugly oxymoron if ever there was one especially when directed at IMP.

        • weka

          “the greens did a deal with labour to allow fitzsimon to win coromandal..”

          That’s not coattailing though. The issue is did they get more MPs than if coattailing wasn’t allowed. I’d have to look it up.

          • Ergo Robertina

            In the 1999 election when Jeanette Fitzsimons took the seat the Greens sneaked over the threshold with 5.2%, so did not need the provision.
            CV has a valid point that the perspective has changed as the party has become ensconced in the establishment.


            • bad12

              Now there’s a nice deflection Ergo Robertina, now lets just suppose for the moment that the Green Party had not ”just sneaked over the thresh-hold”, how many MP’s would they have coat-tailed into the Parliament on the back of Jeanette’s win in Coromandel,

              The fact that Labour attempted to create a coat-tail should one have been necessary is the real point, and, where they and the Greens now get their holier than thou attitude from is beyond me…

              • weka

                I thought coattailing referred to a party gaining an electorate seat and then extra seats via the list vote that is under 5%. In that case the GP in 1999 wouldn’t have gotten any more MPs if Fitzsimons hadn’t won her seat. They were over the 5% and they got the number of MPs reflected directly in the party vote (five point something percent).

                If on the other hand, Fitzsimons won Coromandel and the GP got 3%, then they would have gotten 3 MPs. The two MPs other than Fitzsimons would be ‘coattailed’. As I understand it, that’s what the GP and the report say should change.

                Myself I don’t have a problem with coattailing, although I’d be interested to know why it was built into out MMP. I also don’t have a problem with doing away with it if the threshhold is droppped to less than 4% (I like what people have been saying about needing 3MPs to have a decent party).

                I definitely don’t have a problem with Mana and the IP joining forces to campaign, it seems a good tool for getting new parties established. There is some good criticism on the GP facebook post about all these things too.

                “The fact that Labour attempted to create a coat-tail should one have been necessary is the real point, and, where they and the Greens now get their holier than thou attitude from is beyond me…”

                Ah ok, not sure why you think I am clutching at a straw then.

            • Colonial Viper

              Ergo – yes the GP had a real fear that they might come under the threshold and Labour had a real fear that a whole lot of Left votes might be wasted. So they both played the coat tailing game.

          • weka

            As I thought, the GP got over 5%, so there was no coattailing involved in that election.


            edit, snap Ergo

          • phillip ure

            slightly different in detail..

            ..but exactly the same in spirit..

            ..’gaming’ the system..

            ..to skew the result…

            ..same as..same as..

            ..and if they wanted to be principled on this..

            ..they should have announced that they will support ending coat-tailing..

            (an aberration brought about by the aberration of the ridiculously high threshold for new parties..)

            ..when the threshold is lowered to 3%..

            ..instead of what seems more an exercise of jumping up and down for labour..

            ..promising ‘we’ll be good..!..we’ll be good..!..’

            ..would ‘craven’/bmw-lust be too strong..?

            ..and if we had a 3% threshold there wd have been no need for internet/mana to hook-up..

            ..hasn’t nationals’ intransigence on this/lowering the threshold come back to bite them in the arse..eh..?

            • phillip ure

              after the counting of special-votes..they just crawled over the line with 5.2% of the votes..

              ..so by 0.2%..


              ..but in intent and execution..labour cut a colin-craig-stylings deal with the greens..

              ..that meant had the greens got 4.9%..they would still have coat-tailed in..

              ..as i said..

              ..how come the moral high-horse..?

              ..the collective-amnesia..

              ..(n.b..i think it was a smart deal labour did with the greens..

              ..and in hindsight..it could be cited as the one and only time labour thought mmp..instead of fpp..

              ..(tho’ i guess there was always anderton..hmm..!!..)

              ..the hypocrisy is thick around this one..

    • marty mars 13.2

      The reference

  14. fisiani 14

    Labour must be “keeping their powder dry”. What have we heard from them so far? Nowt really. 99 days to go. Nothing to change voting. No mood for radical leftwards change. Week by week the perception grows that Labour will lose. Why then waste a vote on Labour? This long established mood is growing week by week and becoming a self fulfilling prophecy and people will stop listening. I pick votes will splinter to Greens, Internet, NZF National and even Conservatives or simply not vote. The Cunliffe must believe he will triumph in the debates because John Key is a clown. A clown who luckily beat Clark, Goff and Shearer. Risky strategy.

    • bad12 14.1

      Fis, i see your little fantasy keeps expanding, good to see you have also come to ”grips”, if i may be so rude to suggest such a thing, with the fact that Slippery the Prime Minister is to all extents, as you put it, ”a clown”…

      • srylands 14.1.1

        You think the Prime Minister of New Zealand is a “clown”? Fabulous. What drugs are you on?

        • McFlock

          the one that makes people see our beloved pm mincing down a catwalk, three-way handshaking, and constantly forgetting whether he signed documents or phoned people.

          “clown” is charitable, and not to clowns.

        • McFlock

          interesting that you’re not arguing for the TPPA – didn’t you claim it was going to happen, resistance is futile, all that sort of thing?

        • Clemgeopin

          May not be one, but often acts like one and comes across as one.

        • North

          SSLands……”what drugs are you on ?’ you pose. Well certainly not the Mr Higher ShonKey Standards enema you lustily accommodate.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      National must be “keeping their powder dry”. What have we heard from them so far? Nothing at all except lies and spin.

  15. joe90 15

    Some good news.

    The first woman elected premier of Ontario — and Canada’s only openly gay first minister ever — Wynne bested Tim Hudak and NDP Leader Andrea Horwath.

    She returns the Grits to majority status in the legislature for the first time since 2011.

    “We take this mandate on with great humility,” Transportation Minister Glen Murray told CTV, citing past “mistakes.”

    At Liberal election night headquarters, party activists were surprised at the apparent loss of so many Conservative seats.

    “Whether Tim (Hudak) blew it or not is a question his own party will have to answer,” said campaign co-chair Tim Murphy when asked if the Conservatives went too far with their plan to cut 100,000 public-sector positions.


  16. Morrissey 16

    Disgusting scrounger called out in public


    • North 16.1

      Note Iain Duncan Smith’s demeanour as she’s giving it to him…….eyes straight ahead…….nodding, like “Oh here we go again”, dismissive. Now whom does that shameless Westminster Marie Antoinette remind you of ? Wouldn’t be Mr Higher ShonKey Standards would it ?

      Please Mr FizzyAnus……..don’t come back bleating……..”but he denies he used the word ‘scrounger’……..he never said that !” That would be just too much. From a thicko whose proof/evidence about whatever is a link to the Natzional Party website.

      However the thieving pigs say it……..it’s their stock in trade. Constant pejorative deployed against the poor.

  17. dimebag russell 17

    who heard barry soper talking up john banks chances at the next Auckland mayoralty election. The crap he was spouting was not news.
    and as for eric young. why doesn’t he brush his hair. and you might say what has his hair got to do with it? well when you get adults trying to appear like teenagers then you get policemen in court saying things like groupshots. What the hell is a group shot?

    • North 17.1

      “Murky wench……” Love it ! Bet Helen was pissed even having to sit down with the cow. Besides, as far as I know Helen’s not into soya sauce milk shakes.

  18. ianmac 18

    Did I hear correctly? On TV3 News, Judith Collins in London said,” I did get to have lunch with Helen Clark which was good for her.”
    What! What a cheek. Helen is listed as one of the worlds great influence while the nasty Collins is a murky wench sucking up to celebrities.

    • Sacha 18.1

      Judy’s another self-deluded tory. Someone told her she was important too many times when young and impressionable.

    • veutoviper 18.2

      Did not see it, but did Judith Oravida Collins mention that she had had a “private brekkie’ with Lord Ashcroft?

      Her bestie friend, Rachel Glucinda, the Gossip columnist for the Herald did this morning in her column.


      Here is what Glucinda says (obviously she and Collins are in frequent communication)

      Hon Judith Collins is in London this week for the End Sexual Violence in Conflict summit, co-hosted by actress Angelina Jolie and British Foreign Secretary William Hague. And she’s rubbing shoulders with some highfalutin’ folk.

      There’s been a private brekkie with close chum Lord Michael Ashcroft, a visit to the Crown Court, meetings with Home Secretary Theresa May and Rt Hon Chris Grayling, with whom she signed a Memorandum of Understanding on the sharing of information regarding Family Court reforms.

      Attorney General Dominic Grieve wanted his pic with our very own Iron Lady. So too, did Baroness Warsi, who posed up in the Foreign and Commonwealth office.

      On Wednesday night there was a private dinner at the prestigious House of Lords with Victims Commissioner Baroness Newlove, which gave Crusher the chance for a squiz.

      “Unfortunately we can’t take photos in the building but it is incredibly beautiful and I was able to go into the Queen’s Robing Room which she uses when she opens Parliament,” Collins told The Diary.
      She was scheduled to meet Angelina Jolie and had originally joked;

      “Not sure about selfies with Angelina, but if I can do so without causing an international incident, then I will,” she laughed.
      As it turned out, she managed to secure quite the photo coup.

      Later, at a private dinner at Lancaster House, Collins, whose table adjoined Pitt’s and Jolie’s, had a private word with the Hollywood stars.

      “I asked Brad if he’d like to make a movie in New Zealand,” told The Diary from London this morning.

      “He said he would really like to do a motorbike tour of New Zealand. I, of course, said that would be an excellent idea.”

      Bolds mine. She also includes the photos of Collins with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie that Collins has tweeted in her return to the Twitter scene after her resolve not to tweet after her ‘unfortunate’ remarks about Katie Bradford.

      Cannot stand Flucina but she is sometimes useful …..

  19. Penny Bright 19


    Now that Labour have confirmed that they will vote against an Epsom by-election (unfortunately), then, in my view, it will be up to the continuing work of proven ‘anti-corruption Public Watchdogs’, and others to keep the pressure on!

    Grace Haden in Epsom and Penny Bright in Helensville.

    By using the electoral process to focus on the issues – particularly the main one that ex-Wall St banker John Key is SO vulnerable on – CORRUPTION!

    Given that PM John Key is seen as National’s main ‘asset’ – then anything that detracts from his ‘personal popularity’ – will directly affect support for National.

    Which is why I’m standing against John Key in Helensville – to help keep that public spotlight on CORRUPTION, including HIS!

    (It is my personal goal to help wipe 20 points of his preferred status as Prime Minister, and to help the National Party drop 10 points in the polls).

    In case you’ve missed this –

    My 2008 (pre-election) complaint to the Police and SFO about John Key’s corrupt ‘insider trading’ over TranzRail, and my subsequent private prosecution – not ONE sentence of which was ever reported in the NZ Herald …

    Those who might attempt to write off this bold plan , may care to remember that John Banks was not expected to be committed to trial – then to be found guilty for electoral fraud?

    How many pollsters and political pundits predicted THAT?

    And – please don’t forget THIS huge political upset in the USA


    “US House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has lost in his Republican primary election to a little-known economics professor, a stunning upset for the No. 2 Republican in the House and a major victory for the ultraconservative tea party movement.”

    Again – how many pollsters and political pundits predicted THAT?

    What can YOU do to help?

    SHARE SHARE SHARE the link to this You Tube

    Is John Key Shonky? (New Zealand Election 2008)

    because this story was effectively CENSORED /BLOCKED from mainstream media back in 2008!

    It’s time has come!

    PLEASE share this link by facebook / email / phone / cut and paste to blogs / mainstream media – whatever / wherever!

    YOU are the centre of a Universe – with HEAPS of contacts – YOU can help make a HUGE difference to this election by sharing the TRUTH about NZ Prime Minister John Key (arguably one of the most spin-doctored politicians on the planet?)


    Penny Bright


    • fisiani 19.1

      Paid your rates yet Penny?
      Thought not.
      No one takes you seriously.

      • McFlock 19.1.1

        fisi saying someone else isn’t taken seriously is like John Banks calling someone else a criminal.

      • Penny Bright 19.1.2

        ‘fizzi’ – I helped get John Banks committed to trial, found guilty and removed from Parliament.

        You done anything of note lately ‘fisiani’ – WHOEVER you are?

        At least Rodney Hide gives credit where it is due:


        “Justice Wylie’s decision on John Banks provides a very elegant result: everyone’s a winner, sort of. Graham McCready is clearly a winner. He declared the police wrong in not prosecuting Banks. With the indefatigable Penny Bright’s help, he got the case to court. That was no mean achievement.

        A private citizen of very limited resource took on government might and won. Justice Wylie’s decision proves McCready right and the police wrong. He toppled a minister and shook the Government’s majority. … ”

        Kind regards

        Penny Bright

        PS: Of course I haven’t paid my rates when I’m not being told exactly where they’re being spent on consultants and private sector contractors.

        You might be a gutless SHEEP ‘fizzi’ – but I am not.


  20. Penny Bright 20


    http://www.transparency.org.nz/…/New-Zealand-to-Ratify… New Zealand Almost Ready to Ratify UNCAC!

    Ten years after signing UNCAC in 2003, New Zealand appears almost ready to ratify the United Nations Convention against Corruption. New Zealand’s failure for a decade to take action to ratify the UN Convention disappointing for a country that prides itself on its clean international image. TINZ has actively encouraged ratification for the last 10 years as noted in our letter to several ministers in August.

    In a much welcomed development in a letter to Transparency International New Zealand dated 7 August 2013, the Hon Judith Collins, Minister of Justice, states that she has “announced a package of legislative reforms that will allow New Zealand to ratify UNCAC.”

    The necessary amendments to make New Zealand’s domestic law compliant with the treaty obligations will be included in the Organized Crime and Anti-Corruption Bill. Once passed, the minister has confirmed that “officials will promptly take steps to deposit New Zealand’s instrument of ratification of UNCAC.”

    The Transparency International NZ letter to Ministers about ratification of UNCAC (dated 30 May 2013)


    Minister for Justice Judith Collins’ reply, dated 13 August 2013 (promising to introduce her ‘Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill’ in 2013 ….


    Parliament has only FIVE sitting weeks left to go, and this crucial Bill has yet to be introduced into the Parliamentary legislative ‘sausage machine’?

    Meanwhile – this corrupt Minister of Justice, in whom Prime Minister John Key ‘has confidence’ – is swanning around getting her photo taken with celebrities – serving WHOSE interests?


    In my considered opinion, NZ’s CORRUPT Minister of Justice Judith Collins is an absolute disgrace, and should be sacked as a Minister forthwith.

    NZ Prime Minister John Key, in my considered opinion, is equally a disgrace, for continuing to defend her indefensible behaviour (as he did with John Banks) however – he’s hardly likely to sack himself.

    That will be left to the voting public on 20 September 2014 …

    Penny Bright


  21. fisiani 21

    Penny you are a laughing stock. I for one have recruited over 100 people to change their vote to National in support of the most popular PM in history. You, the rates bludger are the criminal.

    • Penny Bright 21.1

      Yep – I’m laughing all right ‘fizzi’!

      First John Banks – next John Key ……. 🙂

      Your ‘Mr Popularity’ shonky John Key – must be one of the most spin-doctored politicians on the planet – because the public have not been told the TRUTH about his Wall St banker past, and corrupt corporate ways?

      Have you actually bothered to have a look at this effectively CENSORED story?

      Yes or no? Or might the FACTS just be too scary for you ‘fizzi’?

      Go on!

      I DARE you to have a look and tell me what you think.

      My 2008 (pre-election) complaint to the Police and SFO about John Key’s corrupt ‘insider trading’ over TranzRail, and my subsequent private prosecution – not ONE sentence of which was ever reported in the NZ Herald …

      Kind regards,

      Penny 🙂

      • fisiani 21.1.1

        Just wasted a few minutes of my life. Do you keep your tin foil hat beside your broom? People have walked on the moon. Bad people caused 9/11. You need help. You really do. I feel sorry for you but you will soon be homeless. The bailliffs are a-coming.

        • McFlock

          thing about hu-mons is that if they feel sorry for someone, they don’t gloat.
          Bear that in mind when you’re next doing the Turing test…

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.2

        That is a very good video, Penny Bright. A pity it has so few views. Obviously people do not pay attention to important matters nor show enough interest in politics, thinking that the ‘leaders’ will do the right thing! Rather naive. “The price of freedom and democracy is eternal vigilance”. Here neither enough journalists or general public seem to realise that. Thanks for working so hard to corruption, evil policies and practices of the government.

    • North 21.2

      FizzyAnus you’re a psycho’. Personally recruited over 100 blah blah blah……what ? Startled looks as you minced downtown wearing your rubber ShonKey mask while compulsively tugging at your nethers ?

      Today is a Black Friday with a full moon……or something. 46 years rare. Explains it all !

      • mac1 21.2.1

        So long as it’s not a full Friday with a black moon.Tonight it’s still Friday here in Italy.

        I’m in Milano. Today I visited the Merchant’s market in the Piazza di Mercatori. It is now a large artwork and display for the Resistanza listing in many panels the caduti, the dead, of the Resistance,
        who died fighting fascism in WW2. There are also many panels elucidating the parts of the Italian Constitution for which these partisans died- freedom of religion, ethnicity, thought etc.

        In Reggio nell ‘Emilia, my host showed me the Ghetto of the Jews who lived there and again another panel listing those inhabitants of the ghetto who died in the Camps.

        Today in Milan I also visited the Duomo, the third largest church in the world. Beside it was another cathedral- the Galleria- but this time a commercial cathedral to Prada, Louis Vuitton, and other large businesses. Outside, the beggars and the young men plied their trade.

        Inside the Merchant’s Market, a group of young black men were in animated discussion with three members of the Policia, as I read panels of names and constitutional guarantees.

        It takes more than words to realise freedom………………………..

  22. Rodel 22

    Just heard Mike Hoskins say what a nice straight up bloke John Banks really is…Says more about Hosking’s values than Banks’s. ( do they drive the same brand of car I wonder?)

  23. Draco T Bastard 23

    Warp Drive

    And, yes, they’ve named the ship Enterprise.

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