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Open mike 13/09/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 13th, 2012 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

89 comments on “Open mike 13/09/2012 ”

  1. Tiger Mountain 1

    A naughty Banksie… coveting the neighbours gal too.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7664819/John-Banks-told-lawyer-of-Dotcom-donation
    jeez if the PM can let this slide because of the 6 month limit that Richard Worth must have been incredibly, majorly, naughty.

    Me, I still want know who was it that stole his Harley…

  2. Poission 2

    statistics nz as reported by rnz says there is a net job loss of 13000.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/115734/nz-economy-lost-jobs

    • Carol 2.1

      Yep, heard that. It completely contradicts John, Bill and Steve’s repeated line that a significant net amount of new jobs have been created under their watch….. and even then I think they are referring to more part time jobs amongst that alleged increase.

      • lanthanide 2.1.1

        Bill was on the radio this morning, doing his best to confuse the issue by saying the household labour survey is what has always been used to measure unemployment, which is true, however the statistic that is being debated at the moment is the jobs creation figure, which definitely is not included in the household labour survey. Don’t let Bill confuse you.

        • Carol 2.1.1.1

          But doesn’t the government reject using the Household Labour Survey as a measure of unemployment, preferring the registered unemployed figure?
          Ah, Bill says the HLF Survey has always been used to measure “employment”.

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/115734/nz-economy-lost-jobs

        • Poission 2.1.1.2

          Bill was confused himself first he said the data was from Treasury,until his office corrected saying it was the HH labour survey.

          The RBNZ Statement had a significant point .

          The bank said evidence of the Canterbury rebuild were becoming “more apparent” in official figures than three months ago.

          “Offsetting this, fiscal consolidation is constraining demand growth, and the high New Zealand dollar continues to undermine export earnings and encourage substitution toward imported goods and services.”

          Despite warning about the strength of the Kiwi dollar, the Reserve Bank appears to hold little hope that it will weaken in the near term.

          The other problematic problem is the creation of poorly thought policy initiatives with employment rules eg

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7666692/Work-trials-adding-to-skills-shortages

          Reinhart at Jackson hole suggested this was a forcing mechanism for persistent economic contraction (and unempolyment).

          Economic contraction and slow recovery might also feed back on the prospects for aggregate supply. A sustained stretch of below-trend investment and depreciation of human capital prompted by elevated and lengthy spells of unemployment could hit the level and growth rate of potential output. The unemployment rate stays high because it has been high, exhibiting hysteresis as described by Blanchard and Summers (1986).

          The forcing mechanism for a reduction in aggregate supply might be policy itself. In adverse economic circumstances, political leaders sometimes grasp for quick fixes that impair, not improve, the situation. Included in the list of unfortunate interventions are restrictions on trade (both domestically and internationally), work rules and pay practices, and the flow of credit. The output effects of crises might be persistent because we make them so, in the manner posited for the Great Depression by Cole and Ohanian (2002).

      • David H 2.1.2

        They keep on quoting from the Household Labour force survey like it’s scripture, and not just another document. And even if you believe what joyce was quoting today, about the 54000 net jobs in the last 4 years, that’s only just above 15000 a year. Now in that time they have tipped about 60000 people out of work and how many left school in that time?? and thats before they get to us at the bottom of the pile. And we ALL want to work.

    • ScottGN 2.2

      Frankly John, Bill and Steve are lucky it’s only 13,000. Imagine what the figure would be if we hadn’t had record emigration to Australia in the last few years. No wonder Key’s stopped blathering on about a brighter future.

    • Dr Terry 2.3

      And what percentage of these losses concern youth?

  3. Bored 3

    The chill winds blow in Europe, the storm coming from this will affect the world. The insamity of the neo-lib financiers made plain to see by Ilargi at Theautomaticearth. This no doubt will be their recipe for all.

    …demands the Troika placed on Greece today. They want to fire 150.000 civil servants, raise the retirement age to 67 years immediately, cut “lay-off compensation” by 50%, and, wait for it, introduce a 6-day working week, and stretch the working day to 13 hours. In theory, that could lead to a 78-hour working week.

    http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/those-dutch-tulips-aint-looking-all-that-rosy.html

    • prism 3.1

      Hey I want to live and buy a house in Holland. They can buy a house on interest only mortgage and the interest is tax deductible. Sounds like sound financing to me, not!

      • Bored 3.1.1

        Prism, Nice story don’t you think…wish I had a Dutch income stream to do the deduct against.

        What I find interesting about the stories on TAE and the other international sites are the implications for small countries like NZ. Whilst we Standardistas are busy bitching away on local issues (quite rightly), we are in danger of getting dry gulched by these offshore events. If we dont consider these implications we may win battles and lose the war. To use one of the contemptible management speak lines “think globally, act locally”.

        • prism 3.1.1.1

          Bored 3 1 1
          Yes I sometimes feel we get too close to the pollies here, fascinated with their next reverse backwards flip and triplespeak. They could be regarded as a sideshow in a way, to the world, sort of like that fairground game of moving heads with open mouths that has been used as a graphic here I think. I’m hopeless at throwing balls and scoring points though I keep trying, and we all need to try looking at another show often.

      • Fortran 3.1.2

        prism

        Until after Holland’s election today – then watch this space.

        • prism 3.1.2.1

          fortran
          Thanks I will. I’m not up on Dutch politics though I believe they were tilting right, with immigration being a sore point.

    • muzza 3.2

      Surely this illustrates just how powerful those behind the scenes really are.

      An Germany will be bankrupted to front the leveredged funds, following the court ruling yesterday!

  4. Tiger Mountain 4

    Hone calls for “cup of tea” time…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10833597
    well someone has to be the eager beaver linker each day…

    • Carol 4.1

      Thanks. Excellent! It starts:

      Kia ora, John

      I’m down at Turangawaewae for the water hui, and I just wanted to clear up a few things before I go in. You see John, there’s quite a bit of confusion about how Maori are being pushed to help you with your asset sales problem, but there doesn’t seem to be much of a push from your side to help Maori with any of our problems – like poverty, low wages, massive unemployment, poor housing, benefit cuts … you know the rest.

      And in the middle, there’s this:

      And water really is a taonga to us John, a treasure. It’s hard to explain in English but water is something to cherish, to care for, to respect and to protect for future generations. Moana Jackson says “every tribe has a river” and the people of Whanganui have a saying: “I am the river and the river is me”. Water is part of who we are.

      And Maori water rights need to be understood in that context, John. Not as a tradeable commodity, but as part and parcel of our very existence.

      Even Pakeha people get that; I think that might be why so many of them oppose asset sales too.

    • tc 4.2

      I wish they’d start throwing Rio Tinto and Norske Skog into the ring.

      All too easy to blame the maaari’s when these 2 big companies (y’know that big business NACT love so much) are one of the major reasons to delay.

      Wonder what dodgy deal they’ll attempt with those 2 to prop up the demand they place on our generation..

  5. prism 5

    It seems as if some successful wealthy people who are into large scale fishing won’t be happy till they profit and take all the fish available to them. After the stock is so depleted that its uneconomical for them they will probably look at chopping down all the trees that are left or something of that nature. Or something else in the food business, force feeding cattle to make them grow faster perhaps.

    The Dutch are trying to heavy Australia over the present two year ban which is very irresponsible of them to take this anti-ecological sustainability line. They have been working on this with the Australian government apparently for seven years. It may have been that the Oz govmnt has been reluctant to turn down investment, letting money and jobs and overseas finance cloud their realities. Dutch attack

    The banning of the super-trawler Abel Tasman means 50 jobs will be lost, operators Seafish Tasmania say….”It seems that after we have met every rule, regulation and request made of us, after years of working with the relevant authorities, that in the end the government reacted to the size of the Abel Tasman and not the size of the quota and the science that supports it,” Mr Geen said. http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/super-trawler-ban-cost-50-063210851.html
    It is confusing for a newbie to look at the way company formed 20/4/12 is made up and looking at the registration Dutch interests loom large. But only one share is listed under shareholding. http://www.scribd.com/doc/105580298/Seafish-Tasmania-Pelagic-Pty-Limited-ASIC-Report-Data

    It can be embarrassing for politicians to admit they don’t understand scientific findings and ask naive questions that elicit where the facts are not what they appear. All the company needs to do is talk about extra jobs and eureka they get stuffed into a hole appearing in the employment stats.

    Seafish partnered with the Dutch business have named this large trawler Abel Tasman.
    I see that name as an insult to the person who was a great mariner of his time, and deserves a better memorial. They are reported as scooping up all the fish they can in volume – said to be sending much of it to Africa at $1 a kilo. Their explanation and justification will no doubt be ‘We are feeding the hungry in the world’. So they plan to profit from that and clean out fish stocks around the world. Apparently this large trawler has been in other areas and moved on as they have ‘vacuumed’ up the stocks.

    A case for a Rainbow Warrior-type memento perhaps.

    • Bored 5.1

      The banning of the super-trawler Abel Tasman means 50 jobs will be lost In my role as an honorary fish I would point out that when all we fish are caught and gone the jobs will be gone too….I say its a red herring.

  6. prism 6

    Radio news on USA this day 13/9/12 No.1
    USA ambassador to Libya has been killed plus others in bomb attack on embassy.
    This said to be response to an Israeli-Jewish? man’s You-Tube release denigrating Muhammed.
    Republican Romney criticises President Obama for sympathising over deaths instead of first being outraged.

    • Vicky32 6.1

      This said to be response to an Israeli-Jewish? man

      So said Radio NZ, but he is not really an Israeli, says 3 News. Lolwut? (To use Mandy Rice-Davies’ famous phrase, “they would say that, wouldn’t they?”)

  7. Uturn 7

    Where does the education go?

    When I walk through the UoA campus and watch people spilling out onto the streets, I wonder how it can be that so many who pass through a world class institution can have such a limited positive impact on a nation. It’s really unsettling. Experience can’t always be trusted to see straight, but education can’t be applied by a mind with no experience – a Catch 22. When people can’t afford to eat properly, the argument about what a “positive impact” is, becomes obscene.

    • Bored 7.1

      I wonder how it can be that so many who pass through a world class institution can have such a limited positive impact on a nation.

      Lets go back to the concept that education is primarily there to create a compliance and acceptance of the status quo…..educationalists constantly object to that idea and insist upon their independence. They are on the payroll still, what does that tell you?

      • Carol 7.1.1

        It used to be, in arts and social science subjects anyway, that uni education aimed at developing critical thinking. Now such subjects have been down-graded under the “neoliberal” scam, and job qualifications are foregrounded. Some there, in various disciplines, develop critical thinking. Most are there just go through the motions to get a qualification, and many get jobs… and their main aim is to keep the job, improve their status and pay, get the mortgage etc.

        The rest are left to struggle to survive, probably with a certain amount of (non-productive) cynicism about the “system”.

        • Bored 7.1.1.1

          There is always the claim of “critical thinking” being done in the meal ticket subjects. From the graduates I have employed I very much doubt that it becomes inculcated and readily available. We employ graduates who could be described as coming with the right certifications etc, and able to perform well rehearsed mechanistic functions. Usually these are well defined, and very rarely get changed because the graduates apply any thought to it. They do however perform the functions, quietly and without fuss probably because they have a huge debt attached to their pieces of paper.

          Interestingly the much maligned (probably deservedly) Bob Jones reputedly said that he only hired arts grads as opposed to meal ticketers, the reason being they could think critically, and he could teach them the rest.

          My personal take is that “Degrees” should generally be reserved for subjects that do NOT qualify the holder for a specialist technocratic role. We used to provide these certificates and skills at “Tech”, with excellent results.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.2

          Now such subjects have been down-graded under the “neoliberal” scam, and job qualifications are foregrounded.

          Get really pissed off with this concept of getting an education to get a job. In it is the inherent assumption that you’ll be working for someone else and, IMO, it’s that socialisation that actually helps cause the mass inequality within our society.

          • Carol 7.1.1.2.1

            Yep, Totally agree with that DTB. When I trained as a teacher and started teaching, my idea of education for all was a broad one, to do with education for participation in a democratic society. I am still angry about what has been done to education in the western world by “neoliberal” ideologues.

            • Bored 7.1.1.2.1.1

              I understand your anger, I never cease to ask what the hell is taught when I get into conversations with young people who have “degrees” etc? So few have any broad literary, historic, scientific, geographic, language, philosophic knowledge. I don’t blame the teachers although I fear (and I would like to be wrong) that they too now know little either (as a result of their own education).

              My wish list would definitely include Maori language as a compulsory subject,it is so much easier to understand another culture if you know their language, and as peoples trapped on a couple of small islands together I reckon we need to do this.

              • Draco T Bastard

                My wish list would definitely include Maori language as a compulsory subject…

                I’d be supportive of that but you’d have to include a fairly significant teaching of the culture as well as it’s often knowing the cultural significance of a word grammatical position that will transfer the actual meaning.

                Also, bi and multi-lingual people often show greater tendencies to creativity.

                • blue leopard

                  +1 Bored and Draco T Bastard

                  Additionally, learning a second language helps one understand one’s own language better…better linguistic, historical and cultural literacy all round with Maori taught as a compulsory subject.

                • Vicky32

                  Also, bi and multi-lingual people often show greater tendencies to creativity.

                  I am multi-lingual, in 5 European languages  and one Asian language… Will that do?

              • Carol

                As someone who’s done some uni teaching, I think there’s a big difference in capabilities of those that earn grades in the A range, and those that scrape through on Cs. I think the spread of performance between the highest and lowest grades has extended with the increase in numbers of people attending unis.

                Some students turn in brilliant work, and are very knowledgeable…. others not so much.

                • Tim

                  Then there are still others who turn in C; nay – even D work (after moderation), then have their grades arbitrarily “upped” or “downed” at the whim of insecure people running the show. Can’t balme ’em though – all they’ve ever known themselves is a tik-a-box neo-lib inspired tertiary education regime.

        • fatty 7.1.1.3

          “It used to be, in arts and social science subjects anyway, that uni education aimed at developing critical thinking. Now such subjects have been down-graded under the “neoliberal” scam, and job qualifications are foregrounded.”

          Maybe I’ve been lucky, but my lecturers from within social science have always fully supported my critical stance…often pushing me to be more critical, and then be critical of myself.
          They will often take the piss out of our university institutions, and then push the students to be critical of the uni. Did an amazing course on development and postcolonialism…almost the whole course was taught from a postdevelopment perspective. Although they work for an institution, they are hyper critical of it.

          • Carol 7.1.1.3.1

            Oh, yes, I also think arts and social sciences lecturers still aim for students developing their critical faculties. But these disciplines also get pressure to be more vocationally relevant – many philosophy lecturers in the UK lost their jobs when I was there in the 80s – the subject tended to get recast as “philosophy of….[insert vocationally-oriented topic].

            And there is pressure to pass students turning in work at a pretty mediocre and uncritical level.

          • NickS 7.1.1.3.2

            Sort of the same in my science courses, though it was easy to tell which lecturers would rather not be teaching undergrads 😉

          • Tim 7.1.1.3.3

            Look above fatty – couldn’t agree more.
            IT all changed when education was commodified. (oops….inadverted captalisation……but speaking of which) IT (now known as ITC) changed too. “Cloud Computing” FFS!
            There are a number of other wheels that can be reinvented and repackaged just so long as there’s a buck to be made and silly people to get taken in by used car salesmen masquerading as Prime Minstas

    • muzza 7.2

      The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America – Free download!

      Being rolled out to your kids around the globe, ensuring that the gap between the have’s and have nots widens further.

      Once the rot is in, the lowered standards, and poorly educated graduates, become “poor” teachers amd so they in turn educate the next generation.

      Spiral down its goes, I wonder how dumbed down society will become.

      I suspect its past the tipping point, as witnessing what people will tolerate and allow to happen to them, their families, and what they thought were their freedoms, all the while waiting, hoping that those reeking the madness, which they tolerate, are the same people taking their childrens future…

      Not alot of noise, given whats going on is there…

  8. Dv 8

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7669865/13-Canterbury-schools-to-close-18-to-merge

    13 Canterbury schools to close, 18 to merge

    The Press understands the plan will merge Shirley Boys’ and Christchurch Boys’ High School.

    Avonside Girls will be merged with Christchurch Girls’ High School.

    Aranui High school will be clustered with Aranui primary, Avondlate and Chisnalwood, into a learning cluster.

    • fatty 8.1

      This is bullshit…the earthquake is the never ending excuse. The last thing East Christchurch needs is schools closing.
      Stand up Labour…do it now, and make it effective. Do not be afraid to make the earthquake political…it has always been political.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      And the Greens have a <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1209/S00203/government-closing-schools-and-giving-up-on-the-east.htm"Press Release about that out:

      “There is a real concern that the Government will take advantage of the disaster to supersize schools and carry out their undermining of the public education system,” Green Party education spokesperson Catherine Delahunty said today.

      “We can see how the closure of these schools will allow the Government to accomplish their unpopular agenda.

    • Dv 8.3

      OOPS

      The Education Ministry has announced an extraordinary backtracking over its proposal to merge Shirley Boys’ with Christchurch Boys’ High and the merger of Avonside Girls’ with Christchurch Girls’ High.

      The ministry has issued a clarification this afternoon explaining that Avonside and Shirley Boys “may be able to stay on their existing sites” if they had favourable geotechnical reports.

    • Clashman 8.4

      I smell charter schools for Christchurch.

    • NickS 8.5

      1) the Ministry has now retracted the merges after being mauled in the press 😀

      2)

      The Press understands the plan will merge Shirley Boys’ and Christchurch Boys’ High School.

      Even if there was the space for expansion available, the “refined” parents who send their spawn CHBS would revolt in terror at the thought of their snobbish, stupid investment in over-priced, in-zone housing (seriously, for the price of buying an in-zone house you could send a kid or two to Christ’s College, StAC or Bedes) being diminished by allowing the middle and lower class ruffians of SBHS (I should know, I went there).

  9. tc 9

    Sheffield (UK) at Hillsborough 1989 where 96 died, after 23 years, the real story of what happened – and the subsequent cover-up by the police – have finally come to light.

  10. Rosie 10

    Sucks to live in the Ohariu electorate

    Fresh out of the letterbox “Peter Dunne Reports”. Peter Dunnes’ newsletter to his constituents.

    Irrational annoyance coming on at this

    “Fair? I don’t think so.(Title of article) blah blah blah………….voted for Labours Mondayising of Waitangi and ANZAC day holidays Bill and the extension to the Paid Parental Leave Bill. In both cases he says his vote was the crucial one………….ok, alright.Then this

    “what perplexes me is that Labour seems happy to accept my vote being the one that tips their Bills over the line, while only a few weeks later they were railing very personal and abusive terms against the fact the Mixed Ownership Model Bill was also passed 61-60 on the basis of my vote……………….Now in all three cases my vote was based on long standing UnitedFuture policy positions that I publicly and consistently stood for at the last election”

    He then goes on to accuse Labour of being “inconsistent, extremely self serving and not a little hypocritical” What the F does he expect, they are in opposition. They got support from him for their bills, good, fine but like the rest of NZ may have got pissed off with him for supporting the M.O.M Bill.

    Really. I might print a t shirt saying “I am surrounded by idiots” and wear it on polling day here in Ohariu. Too antigonistic?

  11. captain hook 11

    uturn donthold your breath.
    the standard of all roundedness is taking a rapid nosedive in this country.
    just listen to a radio station like m*refm for example and you will hear the most inane banal drivel you have ever heard and these are the role models for the current crop of no-brainers.

    • Uturn 11.1

      There was a radio ad the other day for an educational something. Oh yeah, the NZIM. It said something like, “Ralph wants to be a manager…” and I shook my head and wondered, a manager of what? Turns out it doesn’t matter. You just have to want to manage something.

      Then there was another really good one, some kind of workforce/labouring employment service with a motherly voice waffling on about how little Johnny was at school arguing with his little friends over whose Dad has the better Job. Mother voice says all jobs are good. I thought it was some kind of political broadcast. Turns out that Mother voice just wants all the Dads on her books.

      • fnjckg 11.1.1

        alright already, u get me! Capiche (now there is a show that will remind you of NAct)

        whomever writes as U-Turn is Very, Very, Clever (excellent)
        any way, gotta go plant some beans and pumkins-soup while i am waiting for a job
        (…waiting for the sun,….waiting,…..waiting,….waiting for U to come along)
        for into this House we’re born, Maurice.

  12. fnjckg 12

    to the community
    Thank You (Led Zep)

    when u Open Your Eyes signs are everywhere
    He certainly does move in Mysterious Ways and it will be October soon
    (interesting music on 63 already)

    any way, as i once said to the arresting police, who are now my friends, “opinions are like Bums-
    everybody has got one”
    yet,
    Where will the Children Play

    remember, “you don’t have to live like a Refugee”

    what will be, will be
    however, Great developments for Tuhoe (Russian, German, French and Scots connections)
    they have had prophets in the past. i believe that this Time.

    Are Friends Electric?
    me? i disconnect from u

    • Rosie 12.1

      fnjckg. I hope you don’t mind me acknowledging your unique style. I appreciate the song titles you introduce into your conversation.

      Yes, great developments for Tuhoe – a long time coming. They suffered like many Iwi under colonisation however their experience of it was unique and extremely brutal. They still held on and even thrived for some time during Rua Kenana’s leadership at Maungapohatu. They have spirit, perserverance and Mana. I hope the way ahead is now clearer for them and they can thrive again.

  13. blue leopard 13

    Dear The Standard,

    Mr D Parker has recently posted a series of posts in relation to the talks he has been having with overseas experts in the financial and economic fields. Mr D Cunliffe has also been researching in Finland recently and has posted an interesting post on this and Mr Parker’s activities.

    I consider these activities that the 2 Labour Party members are conducting as extremely heartening and it would be great to see some of this information being posted & discussed on this site.

    It appears to me that discussing National’s phony activities has distracted us all from some more positive things going on in our political scene.

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/09/12/the-cult-of-national-party-economics/

    [lprent: So write a guest post and sent it in to thestandardnz@gmail.com. If it is interesting, opinionated, and well written then one of the people who reads the email might decide to pop it up. Here are the previous ones to give you an idea – http://thestandard.org.nz/author/guest-post/

    Authors pretty much write about whatever they find interesting. It is entirely likely that they haven’t read those posts or haven’t found them interesting.

    Writing anything to “The Standard” will get me by default (since The Standard is a dumbarse computer program running a blog site that I maintain). Since I seldom write posts these days (http://thestandard.org.nz/author/admin/) it isn’t an appeal that is likely to get much of a proactive response… ]

    • blue leopard 13.1

      Cheers lprent,

      Guess I was hoping for one of your articles that syndicates other posts.
      I think that these Labour politicians are doing positive work and the focus is so easily placed on the negatives.
      I noticed that Red Alert got more interest in a thread criticizing Nat than these series of posts regarding the researching of finances and different economical approaches.
      I conclude it is not only the politicians that need to lift their game…we all do.

      • Anne 13.1.1

        Problem is they’re too long. Few people have the time to spend reading them. I know this is something that Labour has been told over and over again. Make your points succinctly and you will get a better response.

        There are some very bright people of both genders on this site who can do it. So why can’t our top Labour pollies do it?

        • Carol 13.1.1.1

          I think Parker’s RA posts particularly have that draw back. But Cunliffe’s press releases/posts on the Labour Party site are reasonably succinct.

          And I think there is a place for longer pieces for discussion by the more hardcore lefties.

          e.g. this rather angry piece by Cunliffe today, slamming Joyce and National re the country’s jobs.

          http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/09/13/they-dont-care-about-your-job/

          It begins:

          Sometimes the National Party’s arrogance and contempt for ordinary people just blows me away.

          This week the news coming into Parliament has been horrible and unrelenting. We have received report after report after report of lost jobs and lost hope.

          And today we also have a joint Cunliffe/Parker post on the Labour website, and as a press release on Scoop.:

          http://www.labour.org.nz/news/national%E2%80%99s-selective-figures-hide-problems-in-the-real-economy

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1209/S00213/nationals-selective-figures-hide-problems.htm

          I think such press releases are aimed more at the media, which the journos don’t usually reprint in full – just pick out bits and summarise. But I guess a press release should aim to be reported as the author desires/

          • Anne 13.1.1.1.1

            Yes, I agree Carol, Cunliffe’s posts are very good. Darien Fenton is another whose posts are succinct and to the point. It’s not surprising therefore that they usually attract a reasonable number of comments. I accept also there are occasions when longer articles are appropriate – such as David Parker’s recent posts on his overseas fact-finding tour.

            However anyone who has been in Labour for any length of time would be well aware of the tendency of Labour pollies to produce long-winded diatribes simply for the sake of it. It’s almost as if they like the look of their own words as well as the sound of their own voices – the latter part of this sentence being attributed to pollies of all stripes of course.

  14. ‘National day of action against welfare reform oct 5th 2012’
    This is on the scoop site,sorry can’t link it.
    Welfare changes come in on the 15th oct.

  15. Te Reo Putake 15

    Interesting result in the Dutch elections, with the centre right VVD edging the Labour party by 2 seats, 41-39. Both are well short of a majority in the 150 seat Parliament and the most likely outcome is for them to form a left/right coalition. Voters have rejected the anti-european parties, though the Socialist party will not lose any seats as a result and will probably come 4th. 
     
    The really good news is that the racist Freedom Party, led by the loony Geert Wilders, has taken a hammering, echoing the declining fortunes of England’s BNP.

    • muzza 15.1

      Voters rejected anti eur0pean parties, which actually means the rac*sts are still holding power.

      In case you can;t work it out, that those who are unelected and pulling the strings at the EU, who control the Central Banks, those types are the real rac*sts

      All the while silly people focus in unimportant factors such as the BNP type political parties.

      Ill spell it out for you: Most people are not rac*sts, but those in charge almost exclusively, and exhaustively will be!

      Result for this election – Holland goes down the pan, because they voted for the rac*sts, you just don’t realise it because you only see the little picture, probably the same as the Dutch!

      • Te Reo Putake 15.1.1

        I take it you had the Amsterdam space cake for breakfast this morning, Muzza. Get in touch when you come down.

  16. fnjckg 16

    a thought, while raking; a recent aquaintence, and now friend of mine, is The head unionist at a local manufacturer, where they have established their own site-specific incorporated society Union.
    -learn something every day

    We were discussing backgrounds and concurred on the relationship between experiencing poverty as a child and the development of shopping (therefore consumption) habits/addictions
    isn’t it interesting that there is a suggested positive correlation between

    Poverty and Consumption

    i hear about this phenomena regularly, now that boomers and Gen X are maturing and reflecting on their developmental histories

    -Big Cars? -Alain de Botton: Status Anxiety

    (vouch)

    • prism 16.1

      fnjckg 16
      I heard the story that Sophia Loren who was a gorgeous voluptuous Italian film star had been a skinny hungry street kid. After her success and money came in, she stocked her pantry to overflowing with all sorts of pasta. It gave her great comfort to know she wouldn’t go hungry again.

  17. Herodotus 17

    Yet another case of screw you
    Water Cares new regime has gone from quarterly charging to monthly, but how is it that in our case 3 months costs was $195 and now monthly it is $95. Because this CCO s giving it to its customers.
    The unit rate has increased from $1.3/kL to $1.343/kT
    Waste water fixed cost have reduced from $426.36 p.a. to $190, but also a NEW cost volumetric charging of Wastewater @ $2.81/kL with waste water being calculated as 78.5% of water usage. So to maintain the same annual waste water costs i.e. $426.36 less $190 = $236.36 variable costs which equate to 84.11 kL p.a. or the same usage as a single person household at 84kL or 230L/Day. Yet from Watercare’s own data a family of 4 uses 600L/day of 219 kL or an increase of $380 p.a. or in total a 25% increase. This when inflation is at less than 3%, and not factoring in the theoretical cost to a household from going from quarterly to monthly charging. Thanks Auckland council and your CCO.
    It would be of interest to see how many others have picked up the cost increase as to those that have not noticed thru the shortening billing period. Just wait until summer hots us and watering the vege patch.

    • prism 17.1

      Herodotus
      That comment should be copies by all concerned so they can read over it and then again and compare their past and present a/cs till they see just what this complicated system achieves. Does the 22% not going into the waste water go into you, or evaporate or where?

      • Herodotus 17.1.1

        The 22.5% was to pacify many who claimed that there was no recognition for gardening and other water usage that does not flow back into the waste water system. What they don’t understand is that if 100% was used then the rate would reduce, so by reducing the % to 77.5% all that happened (Though I would find it hard to imagine anyone connect to confirm this) was that the $ rate was lifted over time. My experience related to Manukau Water activities. The same applies to normal rates whereby should valuations over the area increase/decrease then the $ rate to apply would increase/decrease accordingly, we all end up paying roughly the same amount (Unless something like the fixed charge component radically moves)

        • prism 17.1.1.1

          herodotus 17 1 1
          On rates – I think that some Councils set up a particular area rating charge when they do large works that contribute to that area mainly. Which would stop the spread of cost over all. I think that’s a good idea.

          We in Nelson have had meters installed which in theory is good because it helps you to monitor your use and control it. We had to put in a large filtering system because our water quality was I think low at D or E. I think we pay for it or most out of our meterage. When people started being more careful with water to keep their costs down, there was less cash coming in to meet the repayment of the new water system, so then the rates went up. Practical and follows logical principles but not what individuals had hoped.

          Incidentally our chargeable rate is $1.62 per cubic metre (not litres as I suppose yours is) and daily line charge at 44.60c and 6 month charge is $174.

  18. gobsmacked 18

    Latest poll, minor changes (margin of error), but no traction for Labour –

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4821/

    That’s in line with the Herald Digi-poll this week.

    No change = need to change. Time is being wasted under Labour’s caretaker leader.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Maybe National just needs to stuff up a bit more?

      • blue leopard 18.1.1

        …or maybe our media need to start reporting on just how much they are stuffing up
        (…I mean how much MORE stuff ups does it take….)
        🙁

        • gobsmacked 18.1.1.1

          Did the media tell the Labour leader to disappear into the provinces? Are the media responsible for the Greens getting more and better coverage than Labour, most days?

          If you’d like a basic tutorial on how to get stories into the media, ask the Greens, or Winston, or Hone, or Louisa Wall, or pretty much anybody … except Labour’s front man.

          It’s HIS job. It’s tiresome and just false, to keep blaming the media for Shearer’s inability to communicate his message (last Sunday was the exception, but when else?).

          • blue leopard 18.1.1.1.1

            I’m unclear of the details of how the game works, however I am capable of observing the general trends in reporting.

            Perhaps you are right, that it is all up to the political party to keep their faces on the News, however, considering the massive fodder that is available on National stuff ups and has been all last term too, I question the NZ journalists interests in keeping the general public interested, let alone informed.

            I wouldn’t make the previous comment had not the bias on NZ TV toward Key been palpable over the elections. This went so far as to ban one left-wing commentator and take another journalist to court for finding out a little too much against National’s interests.

            I consider left wing parties are up against a distinct bias with our media at present, although, as you say, perhaps there are tactics that could be used to overcome this.

            • gobsmacked 18.1.1.1.1.1

              There has been highly faourable – fawning, in fact – coverage of John Key during the first term. No doubt about that.

              It began to fade with the “teapot tape” story. Police raids on media organisations weren’t a great goodwill gesture by Key. The love-in ended.

              So this year, the tone of the coverage has clearly changed, and the opportunities for the opposition have been there for the taking. The Greens (with far fewer resources) have been astute and effective, whereas Labour have been bumbling and stumbling.

              We just can’t keep blaming the MSM. Labour need to have something to communicate, and know how to communicate it. Usually they don’t.

              • blue leopard

                I agree the tone has improved, yet I note that still they are very quick to put in the Nat election line-for example the “see how they will find the money to afford it” comment after the piece about the recent education speech.

                It would be nice if they were equally scathing about National-there is plenty of room for it.

                You do make a good point about the Greens though, they do manage to get their point across regularly and clearly.

                There appears to be some lack of savvy from Labour, yet on balance I still consider that the bias is toward the National paradigm (…or maybe JK worship based on money-whore-fawning-mentality…).

    • McFlock 18.2

      dunno.
      If nat go up again next time I’ll start being wary. I’d expect a change in tack by labour post-pag, for better or worse (the new strategist could end up going even more vanilla, god forbid) .

      • Colonial Viper 18.2.1

        Of course you are correct. Especially if it’s the unelected,hired strategists who determine how Left or Right (or “vanilla”) Labour is, not caucus, or god forbid, the Leadership.

        • McFlock 18.2.1.1

          too true.
              
          My impression of the labour caucus collectively (one or two individuals are willing to call a spade a spade) is that what strategy their is is focus-group driven, and scheduled according to an imaginary “optimum” election cycle timetable rather than as circumstances change. 
             
          I could be very wrong, of course. It’s just what it looks like to me from the outside. 

  19. Pascal's bookie 19

    4 teh Lulz

  20. Carol 20

    Interesting. The Maori hui on water is in progress still, but this report has King Tuheitia asking the powerful Iwi Leaders to stand down from individual negotiations with the government, until a pan-Maori agreement is completed:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7665035/Hui-calls-for-new-deal-on-Maori-rights

    A hui on water has called on the Government to halt asset sales till it negotiates a deal recognising Maori rights and interests with a new pan-Maori body.

    It has also urged Iwi to “stand down” from individual negotiations with the Government on the effect of the sale of shares on the state owned power companies on their Treaty claims. The resolve to present a united front could throw the governments timetable for selling the SOE shares into turmoil.

    ….
    Among the first speakers was Tuwharetoa chairman Sir Tumu te Heuheu, who said any enduring and sustainable framework for the future management of fresh water in New Zealand had to appropriately recognise and provide for the “rights, interests and responsibilities of iwi and hapu in relation to water.”

    He urged attendees to separate the issues of Maori rights and interests in fresh water from the government’s plan to sell power company shares.

    “Let us be clear, our rights and interests and responsibilities in relation to water do not just exist on awa and moana that are used by power companies.

    • weka 20.1

      Thanks Carol, that whole article makes interesting reading.

      In a speech to as many as 1000 of Maoridom’s movers and shakers, King Tuheitia said Maori had always owned the water and their rights over the water had been handed down from generation to generation.
      “From birth we have been taught that the Waikato river is the life force of my people….simply, it has given life to our people.”
      But the crystal clear river which he used to swim in as a child was “a degraded body of water”.
      “From Ngaruawahia out to the sea you cannot swim or take kai from it. This is not the legacy I want to leave for our children.” 

      • Balanced View 20.1.1

        How can anyone own water?
        I feel that the message that Maori are trying to give is being lost in the whole ownership argument that leaves most of us believing it is about greed

        • felix 20.1.1.1

          Cool, so I can use your pool? Be round in the morning. Oh yeah I’ll be bringing a few mates and having some beers in the afternoon, maybe a bit of a party friday night. We’ll be selling beers and Woodstocks to cover the cost of the sound system and the bands.
          \
          Saturday we’ll run a sausage sizzle most of the day and if it all goes well we’ll be back to do the same every weekend this summer.

  21. millsy 21

    In the 1930’s Labour decided that every child should have a chance at secondary school. So, under the guidance of one Clarence Beeby, secondary education was universalised and made free for all students, and schools given the tools to ensure a quality education for ALL.

    In the 2010’s National decided that every child should have a chance at early childhood education. So, under the guidance of one Paula Bennett, they forced the poorest of single parents to purchase ECE services of dubious quality, threatening to cut their benefits if they didn’t.

    It goes to show how far to the dogs this country has gone really..

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