Yes it is hardly inspiring having negative views from Mike. His attacks on Cunliffe are very much over the top and are ‘his’ opinion. Let us see if he gives David Parker the same grief over his stupid notion of continuing the raising of the retirement age policy. For goodness sake calling for a referendum will only drive further supporters away.
His comments are telling: Mike Williams seems to be working for Grant Robertson. He is never away from a microphone, so the coming weeks will reveal who his candidate is. Certainly, not David Cunliffe.
Not initially, as I recall. But he came round to supporting Cunliffe eventually – maybe when it became evident a Cunliffe leadership was pretty inevitable?
I seem to remember the turning point for Williams in the last leadership campaign was when Karen Price didn’t have her membership card and someone tried to bar her from attending the campaign meeting in Dunedin.
Interesting that’s what swayed him. He wrote about it in the newspaper.
Hooten the self-professed alcoholic? 2-3 bottles of red wine a night up to a month before the last election? What boozy affairs those bbq’s must have been… in vino veritas may of been a risk for Cunners.
um, I asked for a link on the basis of the twitter exchange post, but the one about Matthew’s drinking was not visible at the time. I also think it’s irrelevant.
I think Hooton commented on ts that he had given up drinking. Good on him.
@MatthewHootonNZ
@Raindance_33 haven’t touched alcohol or other drugs for 10 days
11:08 PM – 30 Aug 2014
@MatthewHootonNZ
@jadelta7 I am fine. I gave up alcohol two weeks ago and I think that is what @johnkeypm was referring to.
8:28 PM – 1 Sep 2014
@MatthewHootonNZ
@farleftandproud I think @johnkeypm was talking about my alcoholism which I discussed on Facebook after giving up drinking 2 weeks ago
Fiona McDonald @FiMcD Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ hmm didn’t mean that in a gloomy way! Statistics are grim that’s all. The best thing I ever did was give up, v happy 4 you!
M@MatthewHootonNZ
@FiMcD yep, no gloom angle taken. Have heaps of support this time
7:04 AM – 2 Sep 2014
David Tong @Davidxvx Sep 1
. @MatthewHootonNZ @farleftandproud @johnkeypm Okay, all else aside – congratulations on giving up the booze! That’s a hard road.
@MatthewHootonNZ
Thank you @Davidxvx, best decision I’ve ever made. @farleftandproud @johnkeypm
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@MitchellAndr 2-4 bottles of red wine a day
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@Olivefarmer @pohutukawa Of course it is not all about me. But @johnkeypm said I was lying and had personal problems so I had to respond.
@Olivefarmer Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @pohutukawa @johnkeypm Mathew you pop up everywhere…just rest,take a breather let the spotlight shine where it should..
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@Olivefarmer @pohutukawa @johnkeypm But I love politics and in a strange way even enjoying watching this awful campaign
@Olivefarmer Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @pohutukawa @johnkeypm You have an addiction …..just Tai Hoa
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
Yes @Olivefarmer, dropping one addiction – booze – but can’t do a second – politics – at the same time! @pohutukawa @johnkeypm
@MitchellAndr Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ How much did you drink?
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@MitchellAndr 2-4 bottles of red wine a day
@CnrJoe
@MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr an ‘addiction’? or a real strong habit?
Reply to @MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@CnrJoe @MitchellAndr whichever
@CnrJoe Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr good grief – wat happens if u go frm strength 2 strength? p.m?
Thank you for your interest in my alcoholism. Now close to two months without a drop. Even more sure than when I sent these tweets that it is the best decision I ever made.
Matthew Hooton’s political judgement is often crappy. When he’s like that he just talks rubbish, he’s a man with no common sense or insight, silly as a wet hen – and many of us feel a powerful need to shout the self-evident truth at him.
But sometimes Matthew Fucking Hooton gets it right and when he does that he makes a little bit of room in our hearts for him.
Recognising that alcohol is a problem and doing something about it is getting it right.
The attacks against Cunliffe are a proxy attacks against the membership and the democratic changes made at the November 2012 Labour Party conference. William’s is one of the Labour Party power elite who lost some power, and he, like the rest of these arse-holes are fighting back.
I’m fairly neutral in my response to Little’s qu & a. He seemed to be saying many of the general things that people on the left and right of the Labour Party say.
Nothing really new or inspiring; nothing that upset me.
He sounds like a very good manager. But a managerialist approach is very much part of the “neoliberal” MO.
I found the managerial thing interesting. Might be what’s needed to clear out the dead wood. However I found myself having to try and read between the lines alot. Some of that I’ll put down to first time in Q and A online with the likes of us. Some of it because he’s not leader yet and so can’t preempt what Labour wants (eg policy). Some of it the same old shit of holding cards close to ones chest. I’ll be interested to see what he’s like if he does another Q and A at some point.
@ just saying …”I’m curious to know what others thought of Little’s performance yesterday. Those that haven’t already said.”
I didnt even bother to read Little’s Q@A…the fact that Michelle Boag has endorsed him, says it all for me…(weasel words are easy)
…and how successful has Little been as President of the Labour Party?….not very!…it is fractured and non cooperative….maybe Little has been waiting in the wings for his big chance?
…i support David Cunliffe…and hope he hangs in there , despite the calls for him to resign!…in my opinion the attacks against a real Labour Party offering a viable alternative to Nactional are continuing unabated
…the right wing are just using Labour MPs and Williams to do the attacks for them…it is a battle for the soul of the Labour Party…and the grassroots members MUST win this battle
Andrew Little praises the Labour Party democratic process;
Mr Little admits the leadership contest is getting pretty crowded but said it was good for the party. Radio NZ News
But then in a complete turn around, asks the front running candidate David Cunliffe to step aside;
“I know this will be a very difficult choice for David, but I think in the best interests of the party, and for himself, he should step aside and make way for a contest between whoever is lined up when nominations close at the end of tomorrow.” Radio NZ News
With this statement Andrew Little is echoing the Right Wing demand, made immediately after the election, that David Cunliffe step down without a contest.
Notably, Andrew Little has not asked right wing contenders David Parker, or Grant Robertson to step aside.
That Andrew Little seeks the undemocratic recall of the main Left Wing Contender through bureaucratic means, and not an open contest is not a good sign.
In my opinion these contradictory statements signal three things;
First, that Andrew is very personally ambitious for himself,
Second, that Andrew is seeking an accomodation with the Right.
And third, that he favours back room bureaucratic methods over democracy.
I will put the acid on Little to front up regarding getting rid of deadwood when I’m in Wellington later this week. Any ‘snake oil’ won’t wash infront our hard nosed group, especially considering we endored DC publicly last time and may well do so again if we don’t like AL’s speak on a number of issues.
Skinny, will you be able to talk about that conversation publicly? It does seem to be the crucial factor in the whole mess.
Little said this yesterday,
“That’s something I have a lot of experience in. As the leader of the EPMU for 11 years, I undertook a careful and strategic reshaping of the union to turn it into a campaigning organisation that engaged powerfully with the public on the big issues”
Do you have more detail on this, how he was in that job, what kinds of things he did? eg is he likely to have the skills and strength to deal with the ABCs/neoliberal/Rogernome issue (however it’s called)?
did he have hire/fire power at epmu, cos i dont think he has that power over caucus? if he can force resignations, that take effect next election, if they are in electorate seats, and can get list dissenters toresign now, it makes me wonder how cunliffe and shearer didnt/couldnt?
Ok, clearly you haven’t got any understanding how a modern union works or why campaigning is not PR. In answer to another question I gave the 5 in 05 campaign as an example. There, the Little led EPMU pushed for a 5% rise for not only their own members, but all workers. They campaigned, we all won. That’s not PR, that’s union organising.
it might be because he, like others is talking in sound bites and lip service rather than substance. like the party itself i am struggling to work out who these guys stand for.
i have read the lp vision etc… but then they came out in favour of nzf… which made a mockery of their progressive label, imo.
i dont get the impression thatlittle thinks the leadership is anyones business but caucus. of course he is not alone in this. i sense he is promising us a lp that represents at least 15% of those who voted national…
it doesnt appear that any candidate is prepared to say who the LP actually stands for, although parker seems to allude to the 15% who voted national that might come back if they are right enough. 15% is my plucked figure based on them getting close to 40% of the vote.
lip service and bs so far from little, parker and robertson, imo. cunliffe quite rightly doesnt have to say anything cos the last year sees him rise or fall.
“..it is a battle for the soul of the Labour Party…and the grassroots members MUST win this battle..”
..indeed..!
..if they don’t labour faces a future as a rump/nz first-like party..
..labours’ longterm life/health is in representing the disenfranchised million + who didn’t vote because labour..(as the main opposition party) had s.f.a. for them..except a raise in the age they cd retire..(!)..
..(i still claim you cd track the steps in the drop in labour support that happened every time after parker popped up to tell nz workers they were going to work longer/older..
..i..here at home..wd say to ‘the boy’..you wait and see..labour will drop again in the next poll..and yep..!..we all know they did..).
..and there is one fact that couldn’t paint clearer how ratshit labours’ policies were..
..colin craigs’ far-right conservative party had policies that wd have helped the poor..more than labour did..
The attacks against Cunliffe are a proxy attacks against the membership and the democratic changes made at the November 2012 Labour Party conference
Well said. Pinning the election loss on Cunliffe is completely unfair and quite stupid. Cunliffe worked extremely hard and tried to support the caucus and membership along. The election loss was due to many factors not in the control of Cunliffe. In my opinion, all of Labour should put their complete support behind Cunliffe but make any other necessary changes as revealed by the ‘review’ that is in progress.
Yes, I cringed when I heard his ‘expert’ comment. One would think he, like some of the caucus ‘seniors’, would have had better sense. A shocking set of stupid nincompoops!
For goodness sake I can think of a number of things which are in the interest of the Labour party and Cunliffe not running is not one of them.
I have got to the point where I think that the process used to elect the leader needs to occur to elect the deputy leader.
Parker put it in a nut shell, people, policy and presentation is what wins an election. I would like to add that being loyal to the party leader is under the control of caucus and that I expect the caucus to be loyal to their democratically elected leader.
Suggesting that Cunliffe steps aside in the interest of the Labour party is un – democratic.
The infighting has to stop, because everyone in caucus are being undermined and are being distracted. It is not hard to see why any leader Labour has had in the last 6 years does not last.
..they are like a seriously dysfunctional hillbilly family..
..you cd almost build a reality-telly show around them:
..starring cunliffe the cunning:..is he really all he seems..?..or is it too good to be true..?..you be the judge..
…blokey gay-guy robertson..did he go to acting-school for voice-training..?..and cd he be more ‘blokey’ when he tries..?
..’posey’ parker – retired hall-monitor…could he be more of a prefect..?..and if you lived in a flat with him…he wd use different coloured maker-pens to record the levels in/of ‘his stuff’ in the fridge..(you just know he wd..)
..’lizard-lips’ little – gurning rightwing unionist trying to pretend he isn’t..rightwing..could anyone fit more ‘urm’s..um!’s..ah!’s into a sentence..?..has the guinness book of world records been informed of his prowess in this area..?..
..and ‘bennys on a hot tin roof” shearer…the original fumbler/mumbler..carrying his faint hope of being revived from the dead..
cunliffe is smart, eloquent, has name recognition, does not require yet another leadership change.
given a fair go by the media and the caucus he will win in 2017 against this mob who have already been found out on the rock star economy, and are now selling off state houses without mentioning this at the election
Not bad! Very good in fact! Don’t forget other fringe characters inside and outside the party.
[It is an indictment on some of the stupid, disloyal, self centred, nasty caucus that we the ‘supporters’ of Labour are writing these sorts of comments now]
The nominations for leader close tomorrow which is a good thing.
I am aware of being critical about the infighting because I would like this to be conducted in private (leadership challenge) and realise that some members are worse than others. Your last paragraph is good feed back.
As for the review of the election result this is in the interest of the voters.
Did he say that on radio! I can’t believe that! Oh dear. How stupid.
I think those that want Cunliffe to ‘step aside’ in the interest of the party should themselves ‘step aside’ and ‘leave’ in the interest of the Labour party.
If he did say that about a candidate that is standing for ELECTION, then that is both stupid and unfair. So, why have an election at all?
Besides, he is being unwise because what happens if Cunliffe wins?
Not at all. Both are concerned with manipulating outcomes of democratic elections. The only circumstantial difference is your liking or disliking of the effected parties.
His refusal this morning (Morning Report, Radio NZ) to agree that he was standing ‘against’ the other candidates. It’s a subtle distinction, but important. He is putting himself forward because he thinks he can do a better job, not that he considers the others cannot also do a good job. Clever
His insistence this morning (Morning Report, Radio NZ) that Labour must aim for 50% of the vote (not sure of exact words). No mention of other parties. Not even a thought to a ‘Labour Led Government’
This is an MMP environment. At the very least, I would have hoped that the candidates for Labour Leadership would have got their head around that by now. It’s a time when the voters expect and want strong coalitions. Why on earth does Labour appear to consider the Greens a partner reluctantly? Why on earth does Andrew Little have so much antagonism to Mana? What policies do the Greens and Mana have that are presumably so opposed to Labour philosophy? Or is this really just a personal power trip?
I feel a bit like I’m reading “best bets’ or the old ‘turf digest’.
But enjoying the updates and your reading of the various horses’ ‘form’, Boldsirbrian.
My current theory about the antagoism to Mana is that it’s the old guard who still don’t quite get MMP. They think it’s about power plays not co-operation. Kind of understandable for the ones that have spent their whole political careers having to watch out where the knives are.
They’re only just getting their heads around working with the GP to form govt (after how many years? nearly 2 decades now), and even some like Parker still don’t get it. So Mana are the ones with the potential to distrupt things even further, better to stomp on them and squash them when you get teh chance. God forbid they should be kingmakers at some point.
I also suspect that Mana’s policies and kaupapa make many in Labour very uncomfortable, given that Mana seem to have genuine left wing policies. If you betray your constituency and they reject you and then someone else comes along and starts talking to them in ways that address their needs, then it’s going to be unpleasant.
I think that both the Green Party and Mana are unpopular with wider voting public, and the fact that Labour apparently can’t govern without coalescing with one or both of them is putting many people off voting Labour. I think this is why the party tends to distance itself from these parties.
I agree. It seems that many deem it to be shameful to be seen standing up for the most deprived in the community, especially those not working. I think it was a sad day when Hone was voted down and I am really sad that so many people are of the view that Hone sold out to KDC. It seems that money going to the Tory side is considered to be “clean” while money going to progressive causes is “dirty”.
In addition, I cannot understand why Labour went to such lengths to distance itself from other parties which were basically on the “same side” of politics. That made no sense to me! Maximise the party vote by all means but not by diminishing potential allies to the point that makes a stable coalition look nearly impossible.
Labour needed to be in coalition to form a government. It needed to emphasise the common policies and the harshest thing it should have said about potential coalition partner policy is that more controversial policies would have to be subject to compromises depending on the distribution of the progressive vote among the various parties in the potential coalition. “We will be part of the progressive coalition which will be your government.
“If you prefer our policy to that of the other coalition members then vote for us so that we can get our version through.”
I would like to see the progressive parties meeting to work out areas in which they can co-operate and even pool resources to reach the non-voters, etc including deliveries of material, etc.
Labour needed to be in coalition to form a government. It needed to emphasise the common policies and the harshest thing it should have said about potential coalition partner policy is that more controversial policies would have to be subject to compromises depending on the distribution of the progressive vote among the various parties in the potential coalition. “We will be part of the progressive coalition which will be your government.
“If you prefer our policy to that of the other coalition members then vote for us so that we can get our version through.”
This.
I’m now thinking that it’s the personal shortcomings of Labour caucus MPs that prevent them from seeing how to change the narrative and communicate how left wing governments are going to work from now on. They’re probably incapable cognitively of thinking this through. That sounds very patronising, but how can Parker still be going on about Labour on 50%? even if they get out the non-vote, some of those voters are going to vote GP and IMP (probably proportionally).
Very disappointed that Norman is doing this anti-IMP shit too.
I would like to see the progressive parties meeting to work out areas in which they can co-operate and even pool resources to reach the non-voters, etc including deliveries of material, etc.
The parties that begin to understand the links between poverty and non voting, and to take steps to address this in practical ways, stand to win big-time. One million potential voters.
This is a discussion that we need to have, if there is to be any real change.
The sooner labour excepts that they need to team up with the greens the better. And you people that are still in denial that the shamozzel caused buy the internet mana in this election helped gift key another 3 years need to wake up.
The deadwood MP’s are going to play a tricky game with the members during this contest. They will either bloc vote their first choice of either Robertson or Parker but not splitter their vote. Their second vote the same. They will be gauging which one has the most support from the members and pull in behind the one that has the most. They won’t be fussed which one as long as it’s not DC or Little.
The Maori caucus have been entrusted with a solid return of the Maori vote, they can not squander and dilute their vote and repay the faith put into them. They ‘must’ ban together behind the candidate who will serve them best and back up the second vote down to the last. They need to get out to their LEC’s and get a consensus/mandate to bloc vote and use the very strong bargaining position they now have to ensure Labour represents the poor with sound Left policies. A non-negotiable rejection of the retirement age policy is a must, along with any other policy that is not to their advantage.
Relax mate even us casual observers can tell you that: Shearer, Parker and Robertson are most approved by the corporate media. Cunliffe and Little are least.
Oh my god. Political debate has descended so far south that the penguins appear to be playing with the polar bears.
According to your suggestion we do not have to even try and understand what any of the candidates are saying, what they believe, what policies they support, what policies they do not support; their leadership abilities, their ability to unify the caucus, their ability to present a vision to the electorate or to give a reason for wanting Labour.
Nah. Just “relax mate”! For f. sake. Sounds like a John Key “I’m comfortable with that”
Colonial Rawshark, as a “casual observer” recommends just following the opinions of “corporate media”. Apparently “corporate media” either know all, or know nothing.
Actually I think CV’s suggestion was to NOT follow corporate media. It’s not that they know all or nothing, it’s that they have an agenda that is not supportive of the left.
Of course. Which was the point of the final paragraph. Just follow the opinions of corporate media. Then decide what label you are, left or right (no alternatives provided) and then you are able to decide whether corporate media know all or know nothing. Politics for dummies. Real dummies.
Thank you for your reply, clarifying that the differences between your favoured candidate, David Cunliffe, and “all the others, neo-libs” ……..is all smoke and mirrors.
A puff of hot air.
All based on hope! …. “I would hope a universal basic income” “I would hope a financial transaction tax”
Lets face it. You have NO idea about what any of the candidates will do. No references that provide any justification about what anyone will definitely support or not support
You cannot even define any of the “neo-lib/fuck-the-poor! policies” that you find so detestable.
Just a load of adding “progressive” to who you hope will win, and adding “neo-lib” to who you hope will not win. “Progressive” and “Neo-lib” mean nothing more than that to you, do they?
And finally I was not jesting about my last query. Your abbreviations are always annoying, but I can usually comprehend. I still do not know what the “pi” stands for. Perhaps it will be obvious in hindsight. But when I do not know something, and say that I do not know it, I generally mean it.
+ 1 Phillip
I am beginning to think Boldasbrian may be a rightwing troll pretending to espouse labour/mana ideas but only in order to disrupt dialogue.
I am beginning to think Boldasbrian may be a rightwing troll pretending to espouse labour/mana ideas but only in order to disrupt dialogue.
Let’s look at that must influential right wing arsehole, Whaleoil. His 101 course says “Stay away from debating policy, ideas, and simply go on the attack. Sex if you can, but if that is missing, a good old ad hominem attack will suffice.
Brian, not sure where you are going with all this exactly, but it is generally agreed that DC and AL are to the left of the other three in terms of traditional left wing politics. People have said recently that Robertson is left wing too, but how I interpret that is that he is the most left of the neoliberals rather than being left itself – so he supports many single issue left wing policies, but I don’t see him intending to take the party left.
But you are right, it is very difficult to find these things out. Little managed to call himself left the other day but couldn’t bring himself to call Labour a left wing party. All the candidates appear to be equivocating and not really saying what they think or believe or what they will do. We’re still waiting on DC to take some actions that will swing the partly left again, but I suspect it’s a vain hope. I agree with Bill’s analysis on this, that unless DC plays hardball with the ABCs and demotes people, we’re just going to have BAU.
btw, I don’t usually read phil’s posts because of the … so I may be missing some context.
You do know what the word usually means right? Because I’m about to use it again.
I have a go at your fundamentalist vegan comments sometimes, but any other comments I make are usually because I’ve read people’s responses to you. I rarely read your comments initally and almost never read the long ones, I just scroll on through, all day, every day.
Besides which, you comment so much that even if I moaned at you once a day that’s still a very small percentage of comments I would have to have read. Given I also comment a lot I think you will find that I don’t talk with you much at all relative to how much I say things.
So what’s this reallly all about? You don’t like that someone has said they don’t read your comments because of your use of punctution so you make up shit about them? 🙄
“So what’s this reallly all about? You don’t like that someone has said they don’t read your comments because of your use of punctution so you make up shit about them? ”
It’s possible your voting views are the same now as when you began, while all the parties have skipped, slipped, shuffled, stepped or leaped to “the right”
mana/ imp emerged to fill the vacuum that was left
Dude, maybe telling the Maori caucus they “must” do things is kinda offensive? They aren’t the brown Borg. Rino Tirikatene nominated Grant Robertson – he seems to think Grant is the best option. Other Maori MPs will have different views, and that’s ok.
No it is not it is a wasted opportunity to have a real say within the party, splitting their vote is plan dumb. Where is the consultation with the people that put him there?
If the Maori caucus have different views on the leadership, then that’s ok. Maori within the party have different views on the leadership. As I say, not the brown Borg.
I’m sure Rino has consulted about this decision – I’m sure he’s been pretty fiercely lobbied to support Grant by a big chunk of his Wellington based membership, and I’m sure other people have had conversations with him about other possible leaders. But he has free agency and isn’t just a prop in your political game, and has made his mind up. I think that deserves respect, not some patronising and vaguely racist “dumb” comment.
Maori have their own seats and collectively need to maintain a position that best benefits the collective. You only have to look at the policy platform that Labour ran. No specfic economic development policy for Maori. I had a Maori MP bemoaning this very fact to me. You would naturally expect Mahuta and some other Maori MP’s will have learnt the lesson of the split from Labour that saw the formation of the Maori & Mana Party. It’s is not a racist issue. It is a bargaining tool of representing your ‘overall constituency’ to get the best deal possible for the people who have the worst statistic’s of neo liberalism. United you stand, and as history showed Maori electorate MP’s, divided you beg and suffer a revolt from the Maori voters.
Surely labour Māori MP’s are first labour MP’s and are beholden to labour and generally (apart from Tariana) toe the party line even if they may personally disagree with it. This is why someone will moan behind closed doors but not publicly about the lack of specific policies to address inequality affecting many Māori or your example of ‘no specific economic development policy for Māori’.
Whichever leader they personally vote for is irrelevant apart from their personal preference – the leader chosen will be the leader they follow.
Parker wants to stay on as interim leader, however the other candidates will force him aside. So it is King who will takeover, unless she stands too, which would add another round of laughs.
Labour has done a fine job of selling the democratic virtues of their new way electing a leader; it rolls off the tongue to say that 40 percent of the outcome is determined by rank and file members. But whose democratic interests does it really serve?
In 1980, the Labour Party in Britain similarly gave party members a say in the leadership; but, as Tony Blair points out, the reforms lacked “any appreciation of the vital necessity of ensuring that, as well as MPs or leaders being accountable to the Party, the Party was accountable to the electorate”.
Given its paltry membership, Blair goes on, UK Labour “became prey to sectarian groups from the Ultra-Left”, a decent explanation for why the party remained in opposition for seventeen years after “empowering” members.
I endorse all that Tim Watkin has to say.
The above quote is about the UK.
The same applies in New Zealand.
Fuck Tony Blair. “Ultra-left” indeed. Lackey of transnational banking and oil interests. Part of the history of why UK Labour has a “paltry membership.” Because it suits a party elite consolidate its power over a political machine.
I see he is now doing standups in Palestine, as part of the refinancing of the reconstruction of Gaza and the “peace process”. The irony.
I do not have much time for Tony Blair either. But I rarely paint all the opinions of anybody in black or white. I think Dirty John is perhaps our most obnoxious politician. But I sure as hell rate the ways he is dealing with MMP and coalition partners a lot higher than any of the Labour Leadership candidates appear to be doing at the moment.
I will certainly not defend Blair on banking and oil interests. His record on taking Britain into war. And whatever you say he is now doing in Palestine.
They are however nothing to do with the comment I made.
Your reply, trying to discredit an opinion by Tim Watkin about Labour Party methods of electing a leader, by the disgraceful actions of Tony Blair in the Middle East, is almost bizarre. But then Whaleoil has infused our political debate in an insidious manner.
I had a few friends in the UK Labour Party. Their complaint about Blair was that under his watch the UKLP became very authoritarian and dictatorial.
Tony Blair’s way of engaging with the electorate and getting them onside, is actually about engaging with the MSM and getting the MSM onside. Blair was always a favourite with the MSM long before he became leader (I was living in England at the time).
Many people left the UK LP under Balir’s watch because it became so authoritarian.
That’s a fair call, karol. Authoritarian and dictatorial aint nice.
The MMP environment in New Zealand may help. If people walk from Labour on the basis of Leadership style rather than policy differences, they may simply walk to the Greens or Mana. Which would not concern me at all.
But the issue of Blair’s authoritarian style, is not quite the main point that I saw in Tim Watkin’s article in “Pundit”: With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups? And the point he made, that while the membership may be given a large vote, the membership are not directly accountable to the electorate.
Are the Labour Party members demanding the Leader wear a large steel ball on his leg, as he is told to swim from one election to the next?
I do not have the full answer. I’m not totally convinced of my own position. The Greens for example appear to live in perfect harmony with flowers and nature, and yet have, potentially, the same issues. How does it work for them so well?
With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups? And the point he made, that while the membership may be given a large vote, the membership are not directly accountable to the electorate.
The first sentence is even more applicable to the Labour Party caucus.
The MPs require an active membership base in order to engage with the electorate. Without that, it is mainly the MPs talking to the electorate via the distorting mechanism of the MSM.
Are the Labour Party members caucus demanding the Leader wear a large steel ball on his leg, as he is told to swim from one election to the next?
The first sentence (With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups) is even more applicable to the Labour Party caucus.
The numbers are obviously smaller, so it would appear so. But the big difference is that the caucus are more directly accountable to the electorate. Sharpens the mind, when your job is on the line.
(depending on how representative the Labour membership is of the voters that the Party is trying to attract)
~~~~~
The MPs require an active membership base in order to engage with the electorate. Without that, it is mainly the MPs talking to the electorate via the distorting mechanism of the MSM.
There is a big assumption here. (That I have referred to in my reply to Olwyn (6.3.1), and was the main point of the article by Tim Watkin in the Pundit: How representative are the Labour members of the electorate? Especially with a small membership?
My own experience with Labour members at an electorate level, suggests that Labour members are a thoroughly nice lot of people, but definitely a unique group of people. If MPs relied only on this group of people “to engage with the electorate” they would be dog tucker before lunch time.
You have put up an alternative, in which you suggest the other main way the MPs can engage with the electorate are through the MSM. Yeah, that is one way, but as we know from the last election, if they relied only on this group of people, they would be dog tucker before morning tea.
The truth is that a good MP will be meeting voters in the electorate as part of the job, every day. Meeting members of the Party will be a very important part of that process. And so will listening to the MSM. And so will attending meetings of local groups, door knocking, attending public events etc. It’s a full time job. That can be done well, or poorly. Can they filter out the bullshit? Even more difficult, can they listen to criticism, and take on board what is fair criticism? And harder still, adapt to that fair criticism?
And the smart parties use technology. Drum roll Kim Dotcom, obviously …. but as far as web presence is concerned, I do not know that the Greens could be trumped. And the master of them all, drum roll (of all people), Dirty John, the master of the POLL. The Nats have no philosophy, but adapt the flavour of this weeks announcements to what David Farrar tells them is concerning the voters most in the last week. There is something missing here, surely ….but, hell, it is mightily effective. At least at knowing what is on the public’s mind. I can surely assert with 101% confidence, that the information is a zillion times more valuable than listening only to the Party members.
(Just tell me WHY Dirty John has suddenly hopped on board his form of an interest in poverty?)
The Greens for example appear to live in perfect harmony with flowers and nature, and yet have, potentially, the same issues. How does it work for them so well?
The Greens DO NOT tolerate dissent at all. They squash it and force members to follow the official line. In fact, few of those members ever dare to open their mouths, because the Green Party is under the firm control of its leadersship.
The questions is: for how long? Electoral defeats like the last one cannot be neither pleasing nor kept away from Green supporters.
He’s probably referring to David Hay who challenged Norman’s leadership in an election year, and did various things to undermine the party. He got suspended for a year.
The Green Party members I know are not at all like the ones you describe.
Then again, perhaps your idea of “dissent” is cretinous denial of scientific evidence or something. After all, you exhibit so little self-awareness in your choice of pseudonym.
But the issue of Blair’s authoritarian style, is not quite the main point that I saw in Tim Watkin’s article in “Pundit”: With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups?
I love how you are ducking and weaving from the obvious. You accept that Blair was highly authoritarian in his control over the party. You accept that Blair’s moral and economic legacy are pro-war and pro-corporates.
Yet you still stand by Blair’s quotes about the necessity of party democracy and being accountable to ordinary people when history makes it crystal clear that he is only spinning lines and believes in no such thing himself.
I love how you are ducking and weaving from the obvious
I love how you appear as an irritating little fly, asking to be swatted.
~~~~~~~
You accept that Blair was highly authoritarian in his control over the party. You accept that Blair’s moral and economic legacy are pro-war and pro-corporates.
I am willing to accept propositions such as you have asserted. They are all possible, but totally irrelevant to what we were discussing. My main criticism of Blair relate to his actions in taking the UK into war on evidence that appears to have been a lie. Again, this is totally irrelevant to what we were discussing.
~~~~~~~
Yet you still stand by Blair’s quotes about the necessity of party democracy and being accountable to ordinary people when history makes it crystal clear that he is only spinning lines and believes in no such thing himself.
I’m always wary of other people’s interpretations of what has been said, when the actual words are available. The tactic may work in verbal debates, but I’m buggered if I’m going to be fooled into “standing by” your interpretations.
The words that Tim Watkin wrote in his Pundit article, and I reproduced were:
Given its paltry membership, Blair goes on, UK Labour “became prey to sectarian groups from the Ultra-Left”, a decent explanation for why the party remained in opposition for seventeen years after “empowering” members.
Now this has nothing to do with Blair’s authoritarian style; it has nothing to do with his “pro-wars” and his “pro-corporates”.
Blair made a comment that UK Labour “became prey to sectarian groups from the Ultra-Left”. Tim Watkin said that was a “decent explanation for why the party remained in opposition for seventeen years after “empowering” members”
And I agree with Tim Watkin’s assessment, that it was a decent explanation.
Now you can avoid the point of the article by introducing debates about all sorts of red herrings as long as you like. But if you have any concerns about the possibility of New Zealand Labour going through 17 years of opposition – as I do – then I think the issue of that ‘decent explanation’ needs serious consideration
What a wonderful post. What comes first is the vision, then the policies. The vision is paramount. You also accurately refer to it as “what they stand for”.
Everything else you say is spot on.
Labour presumably has a vision. It will be tucked away on a web page somewhere. It probably needs dusting off to see the light of day, considering everyone I speak to says that Labour seemed to “not know what the hell they were all about themselves”.
It certainly never saw the light of day during the election. The election appeared to be more about scoring points off Key, and reacting to events, rather than setting the agenda.
It’s not rocket science. And fortunately it is not too hard to fix. The harder part seems to be accepting that it is indeed a problem.
Blair gave an impression of fresh-faced youthful naive keenness for a better society, an open, cheerful face that seemed to offer the promise of a new and better direction.
We need someone to invent special glasses that we can put on when looking at pollies that accentuates the small indications in their expressions to show the real character. Sort of like our own personal cartoonist – one of Terry Pratchett’s imps in a box perhaps.
And we could have a special voice tone gadget as sound techs use, that would be like a worm on the speaker, not for the reaction. That would shoot up and down to match the subterfuge level and a lie would go sky high, and a false promise ring a bell, loudly. We can’t trust ourselves and our own brains to do this obviously, after this recent election.
And perhaps we need to sit a basic test about government, the financial state of the country, our unemployment figures, and how our stats record these, before we can vote. We don’t let children or teenagers vote. But they may be more informed than many of us, and probably would make as good choices!
(On reported stats note Mike Joy, environmental scientist on Radionz talking to Kathryn Ryan this morning, taking the MoE and local bodies to task for formulating a populist, simple and false summary from a technical document on the state of our waterways, not indicated by the data at all, which in its turn is only for the last ten years which should be 15 to get a full picture of the decline of our water quality. Also note he says that Taranaki is the worst area. I think they had 77 monitoring sites but only reported data from 11.
You have to listen and try and understand to this, to be an informed citizen. I think a test should be a necessity before being able to vote. People whose heads only understand computer games moves, sporting details, tv personalities opinions and what their best friend did to make their car go faster should be left on Planet Zero.)
edited
boldsirbrian
Phil Quinn is a floating piece of polystyrene. Goes anywhere the tide takes it and can never be sunk. As far as I can see that is. Just from looking at his past history. He makes his money from being a mouth with things to say that might create interest in the media from which he speaks. But what quality?
You will be hard pressed to point out any ultra left NZ Labour members or ultra left sectarian NZ Labour Party members. Go on.
The LP ideology is reformism. Aka social democracy–the outward presentation of which changes from time to time while remaining class collaborationist at core. It is the antithesis of revolution or a fundamental change in class power.
But having said that, more democracy in most settings from the bowling club on up is generally positive compared to less democracy. So yes Cunliffe is probably somewhat unwillingly and likely unknowingly the best bet for Labour leader as long as he wields the axe through LECs etc to the obvious rogernomes and is influenced to support the right of workers to strike etc.
The main stream media and some of the blogs are part of the capitalist superstructure. It does not look like a one party state apparatus but has the same effect. Whaleboil with over 930 posts on David Cunliffe–what is that all about?
As I see it, the LP membership is pretty representative of LP voters, and they are not hard left. Moreover, these people want to be represented and also want their side to win – hence they do not disregard the electability of candidates in casting their votes. They gain nothing by their side winning, however, if that side does not see fit to represent them. The tension is not between over-ideological members and the broad electorate, it is between people who seek representation from the centre left, and wealthy potential donors/influencers who do not want to see those people honestly represented. The “centre” and the “electorate” are euphemisms for this.
Meanwhile, the precariat, both middle class and poor, are accumulating a “Boston tea-party” case – no taxation without representation. They pay GST on every meagre item they consume, but no one really wants to represent them.
Here’s the thing, that piece by Phil Quinn is his typical bullshit. The idea that he is a disniterseted player is laughable. Now you can come at me with ‘oh but that’s ad hom’ and I’ll just ask you why on earth I should trust him?
Is he an a traight up guy? Does he have an agenda? Does he have a history of playing bullshit games?
These are avild questions to bear in mind when considering his argument that the leadership should be left up to caucus.
He claims that a opure caucus decision would be more democratic because MPs have been voted for. But that leaves aside the fairly salient pooint of how MPs are selected. He doesn;t want a borader range of input into leadership selection, he wants it controlled by a smaller group. Not coincidently, he has a history of playing games within that small group that he thinks should have control.
“..Meanwhile, the precariat, both middle class and poor, are accumulating a “Boston tea-party” case – no taxation without representation. They pay GST on every meagre item they consume, but no one really wants to represent them..”
@ Olwyn 6.3
You sound perfectly right. But as boldsirB asks – how do you know definitely about Labour members? Is there a way of knowing or accurately positing?
Hi greywarshark:
Olwyn, like me, is a member of the Labour Party who no doubt has known and socialised with many members over the years. I think we both have a good understanding of those members and how they are likely to respond to party matters. As Olwyn says, they are not hard left (far from it) and they certainly are not unintelligent. The problem which seems to have developed over a long period of time is that certain Labour MPs no longer seem willing to recognise that our viewpoints are very important and worth listening to…
The most obvious example is that many of us knew Labour’s major policy planks were not sitting well with the general public (more to do with presentation than the sentiments behind them) yet our oft repeated concerns were ignored.
On a related note I listened to Williams and Hooton on RNZ this morning and noticed that when discussing the leadership contest – especially as it related to David Cunliffe – both of them avoided mentioning the elephant in the room. That is, the effect of Dirty Politics and Key’s successful campaign in turning the blame around on the left and Labour in particular. When you add the also highly successful Liu campaign to smear Cunliffe then it is grossly unfair to label Cunliffe as a failure as both of them did. He made some mistakes, but they know only too well he was also destroyed by sinister forces out of his and Labour’s control.
Having said the above, I have not yet made a decision how I intend to vote and I suspect I am far from being alone. So, media suggestions that so and so is way ahead… and someone else is history… is just mindless speculation.
As far as I can make out the problem is that members elect leaders rather than set policy. A parties politicians should be their only to advance what the party membership decides democratically.
This come upon two other issues:
1. People just aren’t used to having that sort input and control and so don’t have the self-confidence to do it and
2. Getting people to engage at that level is difficult
Then there’s the caucus that just don’t want to let power slip from their hands to those of the membership.
Thanks Anne, for coming to my defence – I had to run after writing that and have only just got back. I learned of David Cunliffe’s withdrawal on the bus, in a phone call from someone living in Australia. I will follow David’s advice and vote for Andrew Little now, but I have to admit I am finding the parliamentary LP very hard to like at the moment.
I read a lot about the enthusiasm for Labour Party “democracy” with the members having 40% of the leadership vote. Now maybe Im a FPP kind of fossil (TLH was from the Wizzard of Id cartoons way way back) but why is voting for the leader a big deal to party members?
As members, you have opportunity through your own branches, and I understand via the LEC and via conferences to contribute to policies that you want Labour to promote. And then once they are sorted, your team goes out and promotes those policies to the electorate, and you either win or do not win the election.
If its because you cant trust your MPs in Wellington to do as the party members have agreed, then change the MPs.
Why not get the 2017 list sorted by late 2015, and put those who arent with the program, in list positions from 50-60, and then open their electorate nominations at the same time. They might get the picture about then.
Its not too dissimilar to what the Nats have done in the past, and to the electorate in general, it looks like renewal.
Who is heading this Labour Party review process? Has anyone even been appointed? If so, have they actually started and why have members not been advised?
I ask these questions because after the initial announcement there appears to have been nothing…
The acting leader, in conjunction with the Party President, are the obvious people to draft the brief and to come up with a short list of people to head the review. I’d guess the NZ Council would have to sign it off.
The acting leader has been focused on his own career rather than the furure of the Party.
The interesting part is which of the candidates will win more votes in the Labour caucus.
Now that Parker has entered the race, the split will increase among MPs, although it seems DC has the least chances and Grant Robertson the upper hand and could win the internal battle. Outside caucus is a different matter altogether.
A curious thing seems to be happening amongst the large and loaded. A couple of recent social events have led to well-heeled people talking about the injustice of the low waged not being paid enough to even live on.
There is a clear current in the community (right across it) that the lot of the low-paid is unjust and mean, not to mention grossly insufficient.
These rich people are genuinely concerned and want to see it remedied … an interesting phenomenon. Of course then the conversation gets lost in the way to achieve that, always ending up at the cost of money i.e. the bankers.
“.. data from property analysis company CoreLogic has shown activity among investors who owned two or more properties had hit a 10-year high. Big investors with more than 10 properties were the most active, buying about two out of every five homes in August. ”
Mighty River Power generates over 95 per cent of its electricity from renewable energy sources, namely hydro and geothermal. These assets have incredibly long (bordering on infinite) useful lives, with relatively low annual maintenance expenditure required.
The company’s crown jewels – its hydro-electric dams – are a unique asset. Built in the middle of the 20th century by the New Zealand government, these dams are located on the Waikato River. This location, close to the major population centres of Auckland and the central North Island, save the company from significant transmission losses.
Those transmission savings combined with the low cost of hydro-electric generation give Mighty River Power a significant cost advantage.
Even during times of lower consumption, the demand for the company’s base load electricity generation remains strong.
Kathryn Ryan on ‘Nine to Noon’ with Hooton and Williams.
Hooton and (friend) Williams both bag David Cunliffe ….and seem positive towards Little and Parker
..Williams and (friend) Hooton both praise John Key on security and terrorism and war matters
….Hooton bags Facebook page in support of Cunliffe…says he and his friends are signing it to get Labour to lose again ( so the 5,000 signatures in support of Cunliffe are really fake signatures of support)….at this point Kathryn Ryan bags political blogs …doesnt take any notice of them
imo …this slot is NOT worth listening to …except to find out how Hooton is spinning the right wing agenda on the Labour Party and what Labour should be doing and where it should be going…..and wonder at how Hooton has Kathryn Ryan and Mike Williams wrapped around his little finger!…no hard questions are asked on this show …and there is no contradiction of what Hooton says…it should be called the ‘Hooton Political Spin Report’
Oh foreshore foreshore the biased angst of Ryan is painful and Mike is getting like like a lot of us over 60, the realization that this Key winning the last 3 elections was no boyhood wet dream
I just regret not finding his ivory tower back in the early 80’s and smashing it to hell before he could ever get started
I’m not sure where SAFE stands on human induction – more commonly called abortion – but they certainly haven’t been as vocal on it as they were calf induction. The Greens have been vocal about both; it’s just that they loudly oppose calf induction and loudly support human induction.
What I didn’t understand is how the cows get pregnant out of synch with the other cows. I thought that kind of farming was tightly controlled, so isn’t this down to the farmer?
The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 16
A public call by Bank of England governor Mark Carney that the vast majority of oil reserves should be considered “unburnable” if the world wants to avoid catastrophic climate change makes him stand out among mainstream figures.
That aint workin thats the way u do it
You play the voters on telliviz see
For gods sake get some policies that represent the labour voters
and attack National for its abuse of the poor and democracy and the parliamentary process
National should have been gone by lunch time this election
Their actions as a govt have been close to a crime on to many occassions
Now the bastard wants to waste more of the countries resources getting us involved deeper in a war that is really the responsibility of the US UK France and any other nation directly involved in the mess since 911 get real we are 4 million people making a mess in our own backyard Clean that up Key
We will give readers, not editors, control over stories. Patrons will vote on which projects get funded and which get dropped. We are even giving readers the chance to vote on which stories and pictures are included in our dead tree digest, Paper Fetish, and it’s bi-annual photo-special insert, Radical Transparencies. At ImportantCool, you will control the news.
“Legal spanner now in the works to help stop the forced rating sale of my home.”
I have just received this email from Auckland Council’s Senior Solicitor, Civil Litigation, regarding my:
1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)
2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding
which were filed on Thursday 9 October 2014. and Friday 10 October 2014 respectively.
The next step is for the Auckland District Court to set a hearing date to hear these two ‘intertwined’ matters.
Auckland Council intends to oppose these applications.
In the meantime – High Court proceedings to sell my home are effectively stalled.
Legally, these applications are effectively a big, fat spanner in the Auckland Council works, in their historic and legally unprecedented attempt to force the rating sale of a freehold home.
This stand that I am making is in defence of the lawful rights of ALL citizens and ratepayers for transparency and accountability of Auckland Council rates spending.
How many billion$ are being spent by Auckland Council and Auckland Council Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) on private sector consultants and contractors?
What are the NAMES of these private sector consultants and contractors?
What is the SCOPE of these contracts?
What is the TERM of these contracts?
What is the VALUE of these contracts?
Why aren’t citizens and ratepayers being given these ‘devilish details’?
It’s OUR public money!
Where EXACTLY is it going?
How can you have transparency or accountability, without proper written records?
The Public Records Act 2005, makes this a clear statutory requirement of local authorities under section 17 :
(1) Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.
(2) Every public office must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all public records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act or required by or under another Act.
(3) Every local authority must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all protected records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act.
Where are the STATUTORY ‘Third Party Public Watchdogs’ on this issue?
Why are they apparently so spectacularly useless?
Where are Transparency International New Zealand?
Given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – shouldn’t we be the MOST transparent?
Where is the NZ ‘Tax Payers’ Union?
Don’t they purportedly support transparency in government spending?
Why does an ordinary citizen like myself, feel the need to take such an extraordinary stand, in order to ensure that Auckland Council follows the law?
Because NOBODY else is trying to hold Auckland Council and their ‘Corporate Controlled Organisations (CCOs), accountable to the law.
That is why believe that this draconian attempt is being made to ‘neck stamp’ me – because I am an outspoken anti-corruption ‘whistle-blower’ – who has been ‘blowing the whistle until my eyeballs bleed’ (as it were 🙂
I look forward to defending myself in the Auckland District Court (again), against Auckland Council (again), as happened when I was individually singled out over the Occupy Auckland legal proceedings, as a ‘Named Defendant’.
In the Occupy Auckland case, it was proven (again) that you CAN ‘beat City Hall’.
At the end of the day, I feel very comfortable and relaxed in anticipation that although these proceedings were started by Auckland Council – that I shall (again) finish them ……
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014
The Auckland Council has been served the attached applications by Ms Penny Bright (“applications”):
1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)
2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding
The Council intends to oppose the applications.
I understand that the court has yet to allocate a hearing date. Given that the applications are intertwined, could you please ensure that they are heard together.
I look forward to receiving the notice of hearing for the applications.
Ngā mihi | Regards
John Hilario BA LLB | Senior Solicitor – Civil Litigation
Legal Services | Auckland Council
And the penchant for close, secretive cooperation with the government will only cost companies money and jobs, Snowden added, because no one would want to buy a phone made by a company that provides inherent backdoors for third parties to access your information.
And wondered, after all he’d been through, how he could be so naive. Doesn’t he realise that the government today works for the companies?
The answer doesn’t lie in private business and competition but in us being cooperative and using OpenSource software and hardware.
Nah, the real naivete is that he is wrong. Nobody much cares that they have no privacy. We’re the most watched people in human history and we just don’t care. If anything, we rush to out ourselves on fb and similar platforms.
Speak for yourself Te Reo Putake. I think the majority of people are willfully unaware they are the most watched people in history. They think, it’s not them being watched by the corporate edifice, it’s someone else – the bad people.
They have not realised they are living in the corporate elects piffling smoke screen. Actually I think the majority here are willfully ignorant of the power of the corporations. They seem to think this or that politician is somehow above or removed from this corporate giant. It’s a worry – it’s also the reason I don’t comment on the posts about this or that political party shenanigans very much.
It’s also the reason I say labour are dead – if you think any political party can drag us back from this corporatocracy you’re living in – I want what your smoking.
Because after low wage, is no wage.
Working people have nothing in common with their rules – the sooner they realise the elites hate them with a vengeance – the better.
Mr Key said the Ministry was dealing with the outbreak as best it can.
“You wouldn’t want them jumping to conclusions, naming products, naming suppliers or naming supermarkets when it’s not exactly clear what is the particular product that is causing these tummy bugs.”
Next story in National: Call for police to be fully armed
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Hi,I woke up feeling nervous this morning, realising that this weekend Flightless Bird is going to do it’s first ever live show. We’re heading to a sold out (!) show in Seattle to test the format out in front of an audience. If it works, we’ll do more. I want ...
From the United-For-Now States of America comes the thrilling news that a New Zealander may be at the very heart of the current coup. Punching above our weight on the world stage once more! Wait, you may be asking, what New Zealander? I speak of Peter Thiel, made street legal ...
Even Stevens: Over the 33 years between 1990 and 2023 (and allowing for the aberrant 2020 result) the average level of support enjoyed by the Left and Right blocs, at roughly 44.5 percent each, turns out to be, as near as dammit, identical.WORLDWIDE, THE PARTIES of the Left are presented ...
Back in 2023, a "prominent political figure" went on trial for historic sex offences. But we weren't allowed to know who they were or what political party they were "prominent" in, because it might affect the way we voted. At the time, I said that this was untenable; it was ...
I'm going, I'm goingWhere the water tastes like wineI'm going where the water tastes like wineWe can jump in the waterStay drunk all the timeI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayI'm gonna leave this city, got to get awayAll this fussing and fighting, man, you know I sure ...
Waitangi Day is a time to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi and stand together for a just and fair Aotearoa. Across the motu, communities are gathering to reflect, kōrero, and take action for a future built on equity and tino rangatiratanga. From dawn ceremonies to whānau-friendly events, there are ...
Subscribe to Mountain Tūī ! Where you too can learn about exciting things from a flying bird! Tweet.Yes - I absolutely suck at marketing. It’s a fact.But first -My question to all readers is:How should I set up the Substack model?It’s been something I’ve been meaning to ask since November ...
Here’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s political economy on politics and in the week to Feb 3:PM Christopher Luxon began 2025’s first day of Parliament last Tuesday by carrying on where left off in 2024, letting National’s junior coalition partner set the political agenda and dragging ...
The PSA have released a survey of 4000 public service workers showing that budget cuts are taking a toll on the wellbeing of public servants and risking the delivery of essential services to New Zealanders. Economists predict that figures released this week will show continued increases in unemployment, potentially reaching ...
The Prime Minister’s speech 10 days or so ago kicked off a flurry of commentary. No one much anywhere near the mainstream (ie excluding Greens supporters) questioned the rhetoric. New Zealand has done woefully poorly on productivity for a long time and we really need better outcomes, and the sorts ...
President Trump on the day he announced tariffs against Mexico, Canada and China, unleashing a shock to supply chains globally that is expected to slow economic growth and increase inflation for most large economies. Photo: Getty ImagesLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
Photo by Towfiqu barbhuiya on UnsplashHere’s what we’re watching in the week to February 9 and beyond in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty:Monday, February 3Politics: New Zealand Government cabinet meeting usually held early afternoon with post-cabinet news conference possible at 4 pm, although they have not been ...
Trump being Trump, it won’t come as a shock to find that he regards a strong US currency (bolstered by high tariffs on everything made by foreigners) as a sign of America’s virility, and its ability to kick sand in the face of the world. Reality is a tad more ...
A listing of 24 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, January 26, 2025 thru Sat, February 1, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
What seems to be the common theme in the US, NZ, Argentina and places like Italy under their respective rightwing governments is what I think of as “the politics of cruelty.” Hate-mongering, callous indifference in social policy-making, corporate toadying, political bullying, intimidation and punching down on the most vulnerable with ...
If you are confused, check with the sunCarry a compass to help you alongYour feet are going to be on the groundYour head is there to move you aroundSo, stand in the place where you liveSongwriters: Bill Berry / Michael Mills / Michael Stipe / Peter Buck.Hot in the CityYesterday, ...
Shane Jones announced today he would be contracting out his thinking to a smarter younger person.Reclining on his chaise longue with a mouth full of oysters and Kina he told reporters:Clearly I have become a has-been, a palimpsest, an epigone, a bloviating fossil. I find myself saying such things as: ...
Warning: This post contains references to sexual assaultOn Saturday, I spent far too long editing a video on Tim Jago, the ACT Party President and criminal, who has given up his fight for name suppression after 2 years. He voluntarily gave up just in time for what will be a ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park from the Gigafact team in collaboration with members from our team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is global warming ...
Our low-investment, low-wage, migration-led and housing-market-driven political economy has delivered poorer productivity growth than the rest of the OECD, and our performance since Covid has been particularly poor. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty this ...
..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.As far as major government announcements go, a Three Ministers Event is Big. It can signify a major policy development or something has gone Very Well, or an absolute Clusterf**k. When Three Ministers assemble ...
One of those blasts from the past. Peter Dunne – originally neoliberal Labour, then leader of various parties that sought to work with both big parties (generally National) – has taken to calling ...
Completed reads for January: I Am Legend, by Richard Matheson The Black Spider, by Jeremias Gotthelf The Spider and the Fly (poem), by Mary Howitt A Noiseless Patient Spider (poem), by Walt Whitman August Heat, by W.F. Harvey Charlotte’s Web, by E.B. White The Shrinking Man, by Richard Matheson ...
Do its Property Right Provisions Make Sense?Last week I pointed out that it is uninformed to argue that the New Zealand’s apparently poor economic performance can be traced only to poor regulations. Even were there evidence they had some impact, there are other factors. Of course, we should seek to ...
Richard Wagstaff It was incredibly jarring to hear the hubris from the Prime Minister during his recent state of the nation address. I had just spent close to a week working though the stories and thoughts shared with us by nearly 2000 working people as part of our annual Mood ...
Odd fact about the Broadcasting Standards Authority: for the last few years, they’ve only been upholding about 5% of complaints. Why? I think there’s a range of reasons. Generally responsible broadcasters. Dumb complaints. Complaints brought under the wrong standard. Greater adherence to broadcasters’ rights to freedom of expression in the ...
And I said, "Mama, mama, mama, why am I so alone"'Cause I can't go outside, I'm scared I might not make it homeWell I'm alive, I'm alive, but I'm sinking inIf there's anyone at home at your place, darlingWhy don't you invite me in?Don't try to feed me'Cause I've been ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ star is on the rise, having just added the Energy, Local Government and Revenue portfolios to his responsibilities - but there is nothing ambitious about the Government’s new climate targets. Photo: SuppliedLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
It may have been a short week but there’s been no shortage of things that caught our attention. Here is some of the most interesting. This week in Greater Auckland On Tuesday Matt took a look at public transport ridership in 2024 On Thursday Connor asked some questions ...
The East Is Red: Journalists and commentators are referring to the sudden and disruptive arrival of DeepSeek as a second “Sputnik moment”. (Sputnik being the name given by the godless communists of the Soviet Union to the world’s first artificial satellite which, to the consternation and dismay of the Americans, ...
Hi,Back on inauguration day we launched a ridiculous RFK Jr. “brain worms” tee on the Webworm store, and I told you I’d be throwing my profits over to Mutual Aid LA and Rainbow Youth New Zealand. Just to show I am not full of shit, here are the receipts. I ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: on the week in geopolitics, including the latest from Donald Trump over Gaza and Ukraine.Health expert and author David Galler ...
In an uncompromising paper Treasury has basically told the Government that its plan for a third medical school at Waikato University is a waste of money. Furthermore, the country cannot afford it. That advice was released this week by the Treasury under the Official Information Act. And it comes as ...
Back in November, He Pou a Rangi provided the government with formal advice on the domestic contribution to our next Paris target. Not what the target should be, but what we could realistically achieve, by domestic action alone, without resorting to offshore mitigation. Their answer was startling: depending on exactly ...
Photo by Mauricio Fanfa on UnsplashKia oraCome and join us for our weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm today.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news with myself , plus regular guest David Patman and ...
I don't like to spend all my time complaining about our government, so let me complain about the media first.Senior journalistic Herald person Thomas Coughlan reported that Treasury replied yeah nah, wrong bro to Luxon's claim that our benighted little country has been in recession for three years.His excitement rose ...
Back in 2022, when the government was consulting internally about proactive release of cabinet papers, the SIS opposed it. The basis of their opposition was the "mosaic effect" - people being able to piece together individual pieces of innocuous public information in a way which supposedly harms "national security" (effectively: ...
With The Stroke Of A Pen:Populism, especially right-wing populism, invests all the power of an electoral/parliamentary majority in a single political leader because it no longer trusts the bona fides of the sprawling political class among whom power is traditionally dispersed. Populism eschews traditional politics, because, among populists, traditional politics ...
I’ve spent the last week writing a fairly substantial review of a recent book (“Australia’s Pandemic Exceptionalism: How we crushed the curve but lost the race”) by a couple of Australian academic economists on Australia’s pandemic policies and experiences. For all its limitations, there isn’t anything similar in New Zealand. ...
Mr Mojo Rising: Economic growth is possible, Christopher Luxon reassures us, but only under a government that is willing to get out of the way and let those with drive and ambition get on with it.ABOUT TWELVE KILOMETRES from the farm on the North Otago coast where I grew up stands ...
You're nearly a good laughAlmost a jokerWith your head down in the pig binSaying, 'Keep on digging.'Pig stain on your fat chinWhat do you hope to findDown in the pig mine?You're nearly a laughYou're nearly a laughBut you're really a crySongwriter: Roger Waters.NZ First - Kiwi Battlers.Say what you like ...
This is a re-post from the Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Climate denial is dead. Renewable energy denial is here. As “alternative facts” become the norm, it’s worth looking at what actual facts tell us about how renewable energy sources like solar and wind are lowering the price of electricity. As ...
SIR GEOFFREY PALMER is worried about democracy. In his Newsroom website post of 27 January 2025 he asserts that “the future of democracy across the world now seems to be in question.” Following a year of important electoral contests across the world, culminating in Donald Trump’s emphatic recapture of the ...
The Government hasn’t stopped talking about growth since the Prime Minister made his “yes” speech at the Auckland Chamber of Commerce last week. But so far, the measures announced would seem hardly likely to suddenly pitch New Zealand into the fast-growth East Asian league. The digital nomad announcement hardly deserved ...
It's election year for Wellington City Council and for the Regional Council. What have the progressive councillors achieved over the last couple of years. What were the blocks and failures? What's with the targeting of the mayor and city council by the Post and by central government? Why does the ...
Someone defames you anonymously online. Can you find out who it is? Maybe. There are legal avenues to seek a court order that an internet host reveal the identity of the person. One of them is called a Norwich Pharmacal order, but as Hugh Tomlinson KC points out, it only ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting Māori and Pacific people especially hard, with Māori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te Pāti Māori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymour’s ‘cost-saving’ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. “What’s the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?” Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymour’s school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Government’s move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to stand firm and work with allies to progress climate action as Donald Trump signals his intent to pull out of the Paris Climate Accords once again. ...
The Government’s commitment to get New Zealand’s roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Increasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. “Today I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in Whāngarei will be offering childhood immunisations – the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Government’s record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealand’s strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealand’s national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Government’s transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “A world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed Kāinga Ora’s decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. “In 2024 Kāinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,” Mr Bishop says. “As part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamariki’s review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 What’s Up hotline. “When I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. “The previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. “National campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 – the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. “This year’s Budget will drive forward the Government’s plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. “Budget 2025 will build ...
For the Government, 2025 will bring a relentless focus on unleashing the growth we need to lift incomes, strengthen local businesses and create opportunity. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today laid out the Government’s growth agenda in his Statement to Parliament. “Just over a year ago this Government was elected by ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. “The Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,” says Mr ...
The Government is relaxing visitor visa requirements to allow tourists to work remotely while visiting New Zealand, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford and Tourism Minister Louise Upston say. “The change is part of the Government’s plan to unlock New Zealand’s potential by shifting the country onto ...
The opening of Kāinga Ora’s development of 134 homes in Epuni, Lower Hutt will provide much-needed social housing for Hutt families, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I’ve been a strong advocate for social housing on Kāinga Ora’s Epuni site ever since the old earthquake-prone housing was demolished in 2015. I ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay will travel to Australia today for meetings with Australian Trade Minister, Senator Don Farrell, and the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum (ANZLF). Mr McClay recently hosted Minister Farrell in Rotorua for the annual Closer Economic Relations (CER) Trade Ministers’ meeting, where ANZLF presented on ...
A new monthly podiatry clinic has been launched today in Wairoa and will bring a much-needed service closer to home for the Wairoa community, Health Minister Simeon Brown says.“Health New Zealand has been successful in securing a podiatrist until the end of June this year to meet the needs of ...
The Judicial Conduct Commissioner has recommended a Judicial Conduct Panel be established to inquire into and report on the alleged conduct of acting District Court Judge Ema Aitken in an incident last November, Attorney-General Judith Collins said today. “I referred the matter of Judge Aitken’s alleged conduct during an incident ...
Students who need extra help with maths are set to benefit from a targeted acceleration programme that will give them more confidence in the classroom, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Last year, significant numbers of students did not meet the foundational literacy and numeracy level required to gain NCEA. To ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced three new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ...
Ki te kahore he whakakitenga, ka ngaro te Iwi – without a vision, the people will perish. The Government has achieved its target to reduce the number of households in emergency housing motels by 75 per cent five years early, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The number of households ...
The opening of Palmerston North’s biggest social housing development will have a significant impact for whānau in need of safe, warm, dry housing, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The minister visited the development today at North Street where a total of 50 two, three, and four-bedroom homes plus a ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced the new membership of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control (PACDAC), who will serve for a three-year term. “The Committee brings together wide-ranging expertise relevant to disarmament. We have made six new appointments to the Committee and reappointed two existing members ...
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. It’s so great to be here and I’m ready and pumped for 2025. Can I start by acknowledging: Simon Bridges – CEO of the Auckland ...
The Government has unveiled a bold new initiative to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) that will create higher paying jobs and grow the economy. “Invest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors, to increase capital investment ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced the largest reset of the New Zealand science system in more than 30 years with reforms which will boost the economy and benefit the sector. “The reforms will maximise the value of the $1.2 billion in government funding that goes into ...
Turbocharging New Zealand’s economic growth is the key to brighter days ahead for all Kiwis, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. In the Prime Minister’s State of the Nation Speech in Auckland today, Christopher Luxon laid out the path to the prosperity that will affect all aspects of New Zealanders’ lives. ...
The latest set of accounts show the Government has successfully checked the runaway growth of public spending, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. “In the previous government’s final five months in office, public spending was almost 10 per cent higher than for the same period the previous year. “That is completely ...
The Government’s welfare reforms are delivering results with the number of people moving off benefits into work increasing year-on-year for six straight months. “There are positive signs that our welfare reset and the return consequences for job seekers who don't fulfil their obligations to prepare for or find a job ...
Jon Kroll and Aimee McCammon have been appointed to the New Zealand Film Commission Board, Arts Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “I am delighted to appoint these two new board members who will bring a wealth of industry, governance, and commercial experience to the Film Commission. “Jon Kroll has been an ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has hailed a drop in the domestic component of inflation, saying it increases the prospect of mortgage rate reductions and a lower cost of living for Kiwi households. Stats NZ reported today that inflation was 2.2 per cent in the year to December, the second consecutive ...
Two new appointed members and one reappointed member of the Employment Relations Authority have been announced by Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden today. “I’m pleased to announce the new appointed members Helen van Druten and Matthew Piper to the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) and welcome them to ...
Everything you missed from the third day of the Treaty principles bill hearings, when the Justice Committee heard four hours of oral submission. Read our recaps of day one of the hearings here, and day two here. Parliament was quiet on Friday for the third day of hearings on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thomas Jeffries, Senior Lecturer in Microbiology, Western Sydney University Tijana Simic/Shutterstock The news last week that three people in Sydney were hospitalised with botulism after receiving botox injections has raised questions about the regulation of the cosmetic injectables industry. The ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jens Blotevogel, Principal Research Scientist and Team Leader for Remediation Technologies, CSIRO Mino Surkala, Shutterstock Lithium-ion batteries are part of everyday life. They power small rechargeable devices such as mobile phones and laptops. They enable electric vehicles. And larger versions store ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edith Jennifer Hill, Associate Lecturer, Learning & Teaching Innovation, Flinders University Netflix Netflix’s new limited series, Apple Cider Vinegar, tells the story of the elaborate cancer con orchestrated by Australian blogger Annabelle (Belle) Gibson. The first episode opens with Gibson’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dee Ninis, Earthquake Scientist, Monash University Greece’s government has just declared a state of emergency on the island of Santorini, as earthquakes shake the island multiple times a day and sometimes only minutes apart. The “earthquake swarm” is also affecting other ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Western Australian state election will be held on March 8. A Newspoll, conducted January 29 to February 4 from a sample ...
She’s back behind the wheel, and this time, she wants to find out what it is that makes us tick. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. After a prolific career on stage and screen, 83-year-old Miriam Margolyes is on the road again. ...
A new poem by Jordan Hamel. Real Poet Every word earned its place and so did he, so should you. Real poet lives in the capital but writes himself into the Mackenzie country golden hour, man of the paper land, he neglects to mention his pollen ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Understanding Te Tiriti by Roimata Smail (Wai Ako Press, $25) No better time to get ...
The committee has published this list to inform the public about its work, and to give clarity to submitters who have contacted the committee asking if they will be invited to make an oral submission. ...
Alex Casey and Gabi Lardies dissect their Laneway 2025 experience. Gabi Lardies: Hi Alex :))))))) Congratulations on not getting sunburnt. Everyone I talked to at Laneway yesterday was braving the sun for one thing. Charli XCX. How was your brat experience?Alex Casey: We will talk about the rest of ...
The US President's suggestion, which sparked enormous debate globally, has been labelled as a threat, not a proposal, by the Federation of Islamic Associations. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christine McCarthy, Senior Lecturer in Interior Architecture, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Interior of Auckland South Men’s Prison.Getty Images Prisons are not colourful places. Typically, they are grey or some variation of a monochrome colour scheme. But increasingly, ...
FICTION1Tree of Nourishment (Kāwai 2) by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Interesting to note that the author of the biggest-selling New Zealand novel in Waitangi Week is Māori (Ngāti Porou, Ngāti Awa, Ngāi Tai, and Ngāti Kahungunu).2 Kāwai: For Such a Time as This (Kāwai 1) by Monty Soutar (David ...
Remembering the renowned New Zealand writer, who died on February 5, 2025. The Stopover When the trout rise like compassion It is worth watching when the hinds come down from the hills with a new message it will be as well to listen. – Brian Turner Poet, environmentalist, sportsman, journalist, ...
Survivors can choose to have former High Court judge Paul Davison assess their individual claims to tailor payments to their personal circumstances. ...
Are we too modest when it comes to celebrating our putrid plant life?She’s beauty. She’s grace. She smells like a decaying corpse and lurks in the backrooms of Auckland Zoo, wallowing tragically in a bucket. In recent weeks an Australian corpse plant named Putricia has captured the noses and ...
Politicians from the coalition government received a frosty reception at Waitangi this year, but Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka says the pōwhiri that received so much attention was just one part of many events throughout the week. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jenny Allen, Postdoctoral research associate, Griffith University A humpback whale mother and calf on the New Caledonian breeding grounds.Mark Quintin All known human languages display a surprising pattern: the most frequent word in a language is twice as frequent as ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Justin Keogh, Associate Dean of Research, Faculty of Health Sciences and Medicine, Bond University Jordan Mailata is an Australian-born NFL star who plays for the Philadelphia Eagles as an offensive left tackle. This position favours very tall, heavy and strong athletes who ...
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Mike Williams: use the phone.
How FFS does it help the Labour movement to have a former President’s thoughts on the leadership broadcast on TV?
Some people get wiser as the grow older. Others just get more vain.
Yes it is hardly inspiring having negative views from Mike. His attacks on Cunliffe are very much over the top and are ‘his’ opinion. Let us see if he gives David Parker the same grief over his stupid notion of continuing the raising of the retirement age policy. For goodness sake calling for a referendum will only drive further supporters away.
His comments are telling: Mike Williams seems to be working for Grant Robertson. He is never away from a microphone, so the coming weeks will reveal who his candidate is. Certainly, not David Cunliffe.
williams is a card-carrying member of the neo-lib/fuck-the-poor consensus..
..and his hatred of what cunnliffe/progressive-policies cd offer..
..is bordering on pathological..
…and williams first supported rightwing-sell-out shane jones – in that previous leadership race..
..doesn’t that really tell you all you need to know..?
Wasn’t he backing/endorsing Cunliffe last time though?
Not initially, as I recall. But he came round to supporting Cunliffe eventually – maybe when it became evident a Cunliffe leadership was pretty inevitable?
That’s the one. Watch Williams shift again if he thinks the wind starts blowing another way.
@ colonial..
..yes..for a ‘pundit’..he is quite the weather-vane..
..that williams..
..can’t see beyond the last waft of wind..
I seem to remember the turning point for Williams in the last leadership campaign was when Karen Price didn’t have her membership card and someone tried to bar her from attending the campaign meeting in Dunedin.
Interesting that’s what swayed him. He wrote about it in the newspaper.
he switched to cunliffe when it became clear he wd win..
..but he first pimped for jones…
..he ‘just likes to be on the side that’s winning’..
(as bob dylan said..oh so eloquently..)
http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/positively-4th-street-by-bob-dylan/kT0NowAIOkyWH-97saFsHA
You’re correct, felix. Williams welcomed a third candidate running (Jones) so it would be more than a first past the post election.
@ trp..and he first supported jones for that role…
..difficult to rewrite that history..
Evidence, Phil?
seeing/hearing him pimp jones on nat-rad and telly talkshows..
Evidence, Phil? Anyone?
so..if you are claiming he didn’t do what many remember…
..evidence/links..?
Ha ha ha. You’re making the claim, Phil. Which you can’t apparently back up.
i recallhim backing cunliffe on RNZ in his spot with shooton…
Williams has spent too much time in the company of Matthew Hooton!
….Shearer went to Hooton’s barbeques ….but David Cunliffe declined !
Says it all really!
Hooten the self-professed alcoholic? 2-3 bottles of red wine a night up to a month before the last election? What boozy affairs those bbq’s must have been… in vino veritas may of been a risk for Cunners.
I have my twitter exchange with Matthew regarding this if that would assist moderation?
linky?
um, I asked for a link on the basis of the twitter exchange post, but the one about Matthew’s drinking was not visible at the time. I also think it’s irrelevant.
I think Hooton commented on ts that he had given up drinking. Good on him.
wow, relevance?
For sure relevant. The cosy ol’ boy relationships confirmed, the risk of challenge as to veritas, plugged.
@MatthewHootonNZ
@Raindance_33 haven’t touched alcohol or other drugs for 10 days
11:08 PM – 30 Aug 2014
@MatthewHootonNZ
@jadelta7 I am fine. I gave up alcohol two weeks ago and I think that is what @johnkeypm was referring to.
8:28 PM – 1 Sep 2014
@MatthewHootonNZ
@farleftandproud I think @johnkeypm was talking about my alcoholism which I discussed on Facebook after giving up drinking 2 weeks ago
Fiona McDonald @FiMcD Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ hmm didn’t mean that in a gloomy way! Statistics are grim that’s all. The best thing I ever did was give up, v happy 4 you!
M@MatthewHootonNZ
@FiMcD yep, no gloom angle taken. Have heaps of support this time
7:04 AM – 2 Sep 2014
David Tong @Davidxvx Sep 1
. @MatthewHootonNZ @farleftandproud @johnkeypm Okay, all else aside – congratulations on giving up the booze! That’s a hard road.
@MatthewHootonNZ
Thank you @Davidxvx, best decision I’ve ever made. @farleftandproud @johnkeypm
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@MitchellAndr 2-4 bottles of red wine a day
Matthew Hooton @MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@Olivefarmer @pohutukawa Of course it is not all about me. But @johnkeypm said I was lying and had personal problems so I had to respond.
@Olivefarmer Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @pohutukawa @johnkeypm Mathew you pop up everywhere…just rest,take a breather let the spotlight shine where it should..
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@Olivefarmer @pohutukawa @johnkeypm But I love politics and in a strange way even enjoying watching this awful campaign
@Olivefarmer Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @pohutukawa @johnkeypm You have an addiction …..just Tai Hoa
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
Yes @Olivefarmer, dropping one addiction – booze – but can’t do a second – politics – at the same time! @pohutukawa @johnkeypm
@MitchellAndr Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ How much did you drink?
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@MitchellAndr 2-4 bottles of red wine a day
@CnrJoe
@MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr an ‘addiction’? or a real strong habit?
Reply to @MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr
@MatthewHootonNZ Sep 1
@CnrJoe @MitchellAndr whichever
@CnrJoe Sep 1
@MatthewHootonNZ @MitchellAndr good grief – wat happens if u go frm strength 2 strength? p.m?
@Jackalblog Sep 2
Aw! Matthew Hooton has blocked me for writing this article: http://thejackalman.blogspot.co.nz/2014/09/matthew-hootons-dirty-tactics.html … What a sad guy @MatthewHootonNZ #DirtyPolitics
@CnrJoe
@Jackalblog Hooton twttd he sunk 2-4 bottls of red wine a day up till 2 weeks ago.fits th playbook yeah?
5:57 PM – 2 Sep 2014
Lew @LewSOS Sep 1
DHC writes: “Oi, you lot. Can you all please stop being so mean to my friend Cathy Odgers!”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317080 …
@hamish_keith Sep 1
@LewSOS There is no love so rare that a giant stuffed panda can’t buy
@hamish_keith @LewSOS wats witht hese ppl? Hootons now a 2wk recvring alkie, DHCones and Slater on meds – i… cld… just…cry…
8:54 PM – 1 Sep 2014
Thank you for your interest in my alcoholism. Now close to two months without a drop. Even more sure than when I sent these tweets that it is the best decision I ever made.
What’s the point of posting that? I despise Horton because of his vile politics, not because of how much wine he does or doesn’t drink.
CnrJoe:
Matthew Hooton’s political judgement is often crappy. When he’s like that he just talks rubbish, he’s a man with no common sense or insight, silly as a wet hen – and many of us feel a powerful need to shout the self-evident truth at him.
But sometimes Matthew Fucking Hooton gets it right and when he does that he makes a little bit of room in our hearts for him.
Recognising that alcohol is a problem and doing something about it is getting it right.
Matthew Hooton:
Given that you shared the insight with us, yes – I am interested in your alcoholism – and I mean that in a good way.
sorry, make that 2-4 bottles a night which makes me a total pharking liteweight;-)
The attacks against Cunliffe are a proxy attacks against the membership and the democratic changes made at the November 2012 Labour Party conference. William’s is one of the Labour Party power elite who lost some power, and he, like the rest of these arse-holes are fighting back.
The attacks against Cunliffe are a proxy attacks against the membership
I agree, for the most part, they are. Still won’t vote for him.
I’m curious to know what others thought of Little’s performance yesterday. Those that haven’t already said.
I’m fairly neutral in my response to Little’s qu & a. He seemed to be saying many of the general things that people on the left and right of the Labour Party say.
Nothing really new or inspiring; nothing that upset me.
He sounds like a very good manager. But a managerialist approach is very much part of the “neoliberal” MO.
+1
I found the managerial thing interesting. Might be what’s needed to clear out the dead wood. However I found myself having to try and read between the lines alot. Some of that I’ll put down to first time in Q and A online with the likes of us. Some of it because he’s not leader yet and so can’t preempt what Labour wants (eg policy). Some of it the same old shit of holding cards close to ones chest. I’ll be interested to see what he’s like if he does another Q and A at some point.
@ just saying …”I’m curious to know what others thought of Little’s performance yesterday. Those that haven’t already said.”
I didnt even bother to read Little’s Q@A…the fact that Michelle Boag has endorsed him, says it all for me…(weasel words are easy)
…and how successful has Little been as President of the Labour Party?….not very!…it is fractured and non cooperative….maybe Little has been waiting in the wings for his big chance?
…i support David Cunliffe…and hope he hangs in there , despite the calls for him to resign!…in my opinion the attacks against a real Labour Party offering a viable alternative to Nactional are continuing unabated
…the right wing are just using Labour MPs and Williams to do the attacks for them…it is a battle for the soul of the Labour Party…and the grassroots members MUST win this battle
Andrew Little praises the Labour Party democratic process;
But then in a complete turn around, asks the front running candidate David Cunliffe to step aside;
With this statement Andrew Little is echoing the Right Wing demand, made immediately after the election, that David Cunliffe step down without a contest.
Notably, Andrew Little has not asked right wing contenders David Parker, or Grant Robertson to step aside.
That Andrew Little seeks the undemocratic recall of the main Left Wing Contender through bureaucratic means, and not an open contest is not a good sign.
In my opinion these contradictory statements signal three things;
First, that Andrew is very personally ambitious for himself,
Second, that Andrew is seeking an accomodation with the Right.
And third, that he favours back room bureaucratic methods over democracy.
@ pat o’dea..
..+ 1..
I will put the acid on Little to front up regarding getting rid of deadwood when I’m in Wellington later this week. Any ‘snake oil’ won’t wash infront our hard nosed group, especially considering we endored DC publicly last time and may well do so again if we don’t like AL’s speak on a number of issues.
Skinny, will you be able to talk about that conversation publicly? It does seem to be the crucial factor in the whole mess.
Little said this yesterday,
“That’s something I have a lot of experience in. As the leader of the EPMU for 11 years, I undertook a careful and strategic reshaping of the union to turn it into a campaigning organisation that engaged powerfully with the public on the big issues”
Do you have more detail on this, how he was in that job, what kinds of things he did? eg is he likely to have the skills and strength to deal with the ABCs/neoliberal/Rogernome issue (however it’s called)?
did he have hire/fire power at epmu, cos i dont think he has that power over caucus? if he can force resignations, that take effect next election, if they are in electorate seats, and can get list dissenters toresign now, it makes me wonder how cunliffe and shearer didnt/couldnt?
Wow, he turned the EPMU into a PR agency. The fact that he stresses this, rather than the pay and conditions of the members, says a lot to me.
Ok, clearly you haven’t got any understanding how a modern union works or why campaigning is not PR. In answer to another question I gave the 5 in 05 campaign as an example. There, the Little led EPMU pushed for a 5% rise for not only their own members, but all workers. They campaigned, we all won. That’s not PR, that’s union organising.
Pat, why do you think Robertson is right? He’s probably to the left of Little, in my experience in the party.
it might be because he, like others is talking in sound bites and lip service rather than substance. like the party itself i am struggling to work out who these guys stand for.
i have read the lp vision etc… but then they came out in favour of nzf… which made a mockery of their progressive label, imo.
i dont get the impression thatlittle thinks the leadership is anyones business but caucus. of course he is not alone in this. i sense he is promising us a lp that represents at least 15% of those who voted national…
it doesnt appear that any candidate is prepared to say who the LP actually stands for, although parker seems to allude to the 15% who voted national that might come back if they are right enough. 15% is my plucked figure based on them getting close to 40% of the vote.
lip service and bs so far from little, parker and robertson, imo. cunliffe quite rightly doesnt have to say anything cos the last year sees him rise or fall.
@ chooky..
“..it is a battle for the soul of the Labour Party…and the grassroots members MUST win this battle..”
..indeed..!
..if they don’t labour faces a future as a rump/nz first-like party..
..labours’ longterm life/health is in representing the disenfranchised million + who didn’t vote because labour..(as the main opposition party) had s.f.a. for them..except a raise in the age they cd retire..(!)..
..(i still claim you cd track the steps in the drop in labour support that happened every time after parker popped up to tell nz workers they were going to work longer/older..
..i..here at home..wd say to ‘the boy’..you wait and see..labour will drop again in the next poll..and yep..!..we all know they did..).
..and there is one fact that couldn’t paint clearer how ratshit labours’ policies were..
..colin craigs’ far-right conservative party had policies that wd have helped the poor..more than labour did..
..how fucked-up is that..?..
@ saarbo..
“..William’s is one of the Labour Party power elite who lost some power, and he, like the rest of these arse-holes are fighting back..”
..+ 1..
Well said. Pinning the election loss on Cunliffe is completely unfair and quite stupid. Cunliffe worked extremely hard and tried to support the caucus and membership along. The election loss was due to many factors not in the control of Cunliffe. In my opinion, all of Labour should put their complete support behind Cunliffe but make any other necessary changes as revealed by the ‘review’ that is in progress.
Yes, I cringed when I heard his ‘expert’ comment. One would think he, like some of the caucus ‘seniors’, would have had better sense. A shocking set of stupid nincompoops!
didnt he also say the membership would back robertson??!?
I’m wondering when someone is going to tell the poor fellow that Hooton is already married. He’ll be devastated.
Andrew Little – Minus 1
His suggestion this morning (Morning Report, Radio NZ) that David Cunliffe step aside ‘in the interests of the party’
A Tui advert?
For goodness sake I can think of a number of things which are in the interest of the Labour party and Cunliffe not running is not one of them.
I have got to the point where I think that the process used to elect the leader needs to occur to elect the deputy leader.
Parker put it in a nut shell, people, policy and presentation is what wins an election. I would like to add that being loyal to the party leader is under the control of caucus and that I expect the caucus to be loyal to their democratically elected leader.
Suggesting that Cunliffe steps aside in the interest of the Labour party is un – democratic.
The infighting has to stop, because everyone in caucus are being undermined and are being distracted. It is not hard to see why any leader Labour has had in the last 6 years does not last.
@ treetop..
..they are like a seriously dysfunctional hillbilly family..
..you cd almost build a reality-telly show around them:
..starring cunliffe the cunning:..is he really all he seems..?..or is it too good to be true..?..you be the judge..
…blokey gay-guy robertson..did he go to acting-school for voice-training..?..and cd he be more ‘blokey’ when he tries..?
..’posey’ parker – retired hall-monitor…could he be more of a prefect..?..and if you lived in a flat with him…he wd use different coloured maker-pens to record the levels in/of ‘his stuff’ in the fridge..(you just know he wd..)
..’lizard-lips’ little – gurning rightwing unionist trying to pretend he isn’t..rightwing..could anyone fit more ‘urm’s..um!’s..ah!’s into a sentence..?..has the guinness book of world records been informed of his prowess in this area..?..
..and ‘bennys on a hot tin roof” shearer…the original fumbler/mumbler..carrying his faint hope of being revived from the dead..
..’im baaacckkkk..!!!!’
Just don’t stop here with the candidate profiles, (excluding Shearer) keep going with every member in caucus. A work in progress, take your time.
Cunliffe has the most promising profile AND he had the job for a year and still WANTS the job. The guy is going in with his eyes open.
cunliffe is smart, eloquent, has name recognition, does not require yet another leadership change.
given a fair go by the media and the caucus he will win in 2017 against this mob who have already been found out on the rock star economy, and are now selling off state houses without mentioning this at the election
Not bad! Very good in fact! Don’t forget other fringe characters inside and outside the party.
[It is an indictment on some of the stupid, disloyal, self centred, nasty caucus that we the ‘supporters’ of Labour are writing these sorts of comments now]
The nominations for leader close tomorrow which is a good thing.
I am aware of being critical about the infighting because I would like this to be conducted in private (leadership challenge) and realise that some members are worse than others. Your last paragraph is good feed back.
As for the review of the election result this is in the interest of the voters.
Did he say that on radio! I can’t believe that! Oh dear. How stupid.
I think those that want Cunliffe to ‘step aside’ in the interest of the party should themselves ‘step aside’ and ‘leave’ in the interest of the Labour party.
If he did say that about a candidate that is standing for ELECTION, then that is both stupid and unfair. So, why have an election at all?
Besides, he is being unwise because what happens if Cunliffe wins?
That definitely firms my vote for Cunliffe.
And yet, when it comes to Te Tai Tokerau, you’re all for a similar arrangement. Funny old world, eh?
Different scenario/circumstance.
Not at all. Both are concerned with manipulating outcomes of democratic elections. The only circumstantial difference is your liking or disliking of the effected parties.
@ trp..
..and a special apples-and-oranges-award for that commenter/comment..
David Parker – Plus 1
His refusal this morning (Morning Report, Radio NZ) to agree that he was standing ‘against’ the other candidates. It’s a subtle distinction, but important. He is putting himself forward because he thinks he can do a better job, not that he considers the others cannot also do a good job. Clever
David Parker – Minus 1
His insistence this morning (Morning Report, Radio NZ) that Labour must aim for 50% of the vote (not sure of exact words). No mention of other parties. Not even a thought to a ‘Labour Led Government’
This is an MMP environment. At the very least, I would have hoped that the candidates for Labour Leadership would have got their head around that by now. It’s a time when the voters expect and want strong coalitions. Why on earth does Labour appear to consider the Greens a partner reluctantly? Why on earth does Andrew Little have so much antagonism to Mana? What policies do the Greens and Mana have that are presumably so opposed to Labour philosophy? Or is this really just a personal power trip?
I feel a bit like I’m reading “best bets’ or the old ‘turf digest’.
But enjoying the updates and your reading of the various horses’ ‘form’, Boldsirbrian.
My current theory about the antagoism to Mana is that it’s the old guard who still don’t quite get MMP. They think it’s about power plays not co-operation. Kind of understandable for the ones that have spent their whole political careers having to watch out where the knives are.
They’re only just getting their heads around working with the GP to form govt (after how many years? nearly 2 decades now), and even some like Parker still don’t get it. So Mana are the ones with the potential to distrupt things even further, better to stomp on them and squash them when you get teh chance. God forbid they should be kingmakers at some point.
I also suspect that Mana’s policies and kaupapa make many in Labour very uncomfortable, given that Mana seem to have genuine left wing policies. If you betray your constituency and they reject you and then someone else comes along and starts talking to them in ways that address their needs, then it’s going to be unpleasant.
I think that both the Green Party and Mana are unpopular with wider voting public, and the fact that Labour apparently can’t govern without coalescing with one or both of them is putting many people off voting Labour. I think this is why the party tends to distance itself from these parties.
I say this as someone who regularly votes Green.
I agree. It seems that many deem it to be shameful to be seen standing up for the most deprived in the community, especially those not working. I think it was a sad day when Hone was voted down and I am really sad that so many people are of the view that Hone sold out to KDC. It seems that money going to the Tory side is considered to be “clean” while money going to progressive causes is “dirty”.
In addition, I cannot understand why Labour went to such lengths to distance itself from other parties which were basically on the “same side” of politics. That made no sense to me! Maximise the party vote by all means but not by diminishing potential allies to the point that makes a stable coalition look nearly impossible.
Labour needed to be in coalition to form a government. It needed to emphasise the common policies and the harshest thing it should have said about potential coalition partner policy is that more controversial policies would have to be subject to compromises depending on the distribution of the progressive vote among the various parties in the potential coalition. “We will be part of the progressive coalition which will be your government.
“If you prefer our policy to that of the other coalition members then vote for us so that we can get our version through.”
I would like to see the progressive parties meeting to work out areas in which they can co-operate and even pool resources to reach the non-voters, etc including deliveries of material, etc.
Labour needed to be in coalition to form a government. It needed to emphasise the common policies and the harshest thing it should have said about potential coalition partner policy is that more controversial policies would have to be subject to compromises depending on the distribution of the progressive vote among the various parties in the potential coalition. “We will be part of the progressive coalition which will be your government.
“If you prefer our policy to that of the other coalition members then vote for us so that we can get our version through.”
This.
I’m now thinking that it’s the personal shortcomings of Labour caucus MPs that prevent them from seeing how to change the narrative and communicate how left wing governments are going to work from now on. They’re probably incapable cognitively of thinking this through. That sounds very patronising, but how can Parker still be going on about Labour on 50%? even if they get out the non-vote, some of those voters are going to vote GP and IMP (probably proportionally).
Very disappointed that Norman is doing this anti-IMP shit too.
That’s because that’s how the Tories paint it with help from their assistants in the MSM.
I agree with your whole post Tautoko.
I would like to see the progressive parties meeting to work out areas in which they can co-operate and even pool resources to reach the non-voters, etc including deliveries of material, etc.
The parties that begin to understand the links between poverty and non voting, and to take steps to address this in practical ways, stand to win big-time. One million potential voters.
This is a discussion that we need to have, if there is to be any real change.
The sooner labour excepts that they need to team up with the greens the better. And you people that are still in denial that the shamozzel caused buy the internet mana in this election helped gift key another 3 years need to wake up.
The deadwood MP’s are going to play a tricky game with the members during this contest. They will either bloc vote their first choice of either Robertson or Parker but not splitter their vote. Their second vote the same. They will be gauging which one has the most support from the members and pull in behind the one that has the most. They won’t be fussed which one as long as it’s not DC or Little.
The Maori caucus have been entrusted with a solid return of the Maori vote, they can not squander and dilute their vote and repay the faith put into them. They ‘must’ ban together behind the candidate who will serve them best and back up the second vote down to the last. They need to get out to their LEC’s and get a consensus/mandate to bloc vote and use the very strong bargaining position they now have to ensure Labour represents the poor with sound Left policies. A non-negotiable rejection of the retirement age policy is a must, along with any other policy that is not to their advantage.
i am hoping the maori/pi-caucus will see that cunliffe+progressive policies will be the best package for who they represent..
..and that they will be major players in this election..
..i can’t see how they can’t see that the other neo-lib candidates just mean more bad news for those they represent..
..whereas a labour leader + a brace of progressive policies..
..cd herald a new dawn/way out of poverty for many maori/p.i..
..they have muscle in this depleted labour caucus..
..time to flex it..
.
@ phillip ure (5.1)
Can you please provide an example of a “progressive policy” that Cunliffe will support that your so called “neo-lib” candidates will not?
Can you please define who these “neo-lib” candidates are?
Can you please provide an example of policies that will be implemented by the “neo-lib” candidates that will mean “bad news”?
(I’m expecting a few references too, to back up the claims)
A minor query. What is the maori/pi-caucus?
Mr. Botany (B.)
Relax mate even us casual observers can tell you that: Shearer, Parker and Robertson are most approved by the corporate media. Cunliffe and Little are least.
@ Colonial Rawshark (5.1.1.1)
Oh my god. Political debate has descended so far south that the penguins appear to be playing with the polar bears.
According to your suggestion we do not have to even try and understand what any of the candidates are saying, what they believe, what policies they support, what policies they do not support; their leadership abilities, their ability to unify the caucus, their ability to present a vision to the electorate or to give a reason for wanting Labour.
Nah. Just “relax mate”! For f. sake. Sounds like a John Key “I’m comfortable with that”
Colonial Rawshark, as a “casual observer” recommends just following the opinions of “corporate media”. Apparently “corporate media” either know all, or know nothing.
Yeah right.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Actually I think CV’s suggestion was to NOT follow corporate media. It’s not that they know all or nothing, it’s that they have an agenda that is not supportive of the left.
@ wekarawshark (5.1.1.1.1.1)
Of course. Which was the point of the final paragraph. Just follow the opinions of corporate media. Then decide what label you are, left or right (no alternatives provided) and then you are able to decide whether corporate media know all or know nothing. Politics for dummies. Real dummies.
Mr. Botany (B.)
@ bold brian..
the actual policies offered will be down to labour to work on..
..but i wd hope a universal basic income..and a financial transaction tax on the banksters wd be somewhere in the mix..
..the ‘neo-lib’ candidates are all but cunliffe…(i parked little with them after his q&a here yest..how cd i not..?..)
..just continuation of neo-lib/fuck-the-poor! policies is all the ‘bad news you need’.
.and yr last question..?..surely you jest..?
@phillip ure (5.1.1.2)
Thank you for your reply, clarifying that the differences between your favoured candidate, David Cunliffe, and “all the others, neo-libs” ……..is all smoke and mirrors.
A puff of hot air.
All based on hope! …. “I would hope a universal basic income” “I would hope a financial transaction tax”
Lets face it. You have NO idea about what any of the candidates will do. No references that provide any justification about what anyone will definitely support or not support
You cannot even define any of the “neo-lib/fuck-the-poor! policies” that you find so detestable.
Just a load of adding “progressive” to who you hope will win, and adding “neo-lib” to who you hope will not win. “Progressive” and “Neo-lib” mean nothing more than that to you, do they?
And finally I was not jesting about my last query. Your abbreviations are always annoying, but I can usually comprehend. I still do not know what the “pi” stands for. Perhaps it will be obvious in hindsight. But when I do not know something, and say that I do not know it, I generally mean it.
Mr. Botany (B.)
@ bold brian..
..p.i. means pacific island..(you didn’t know that..?..seriously..?..do you live in the sth island or something..?..)
..and i can’t be screwed giving you a history lesson of the last 30 yrs of neo-lib..
..if anyone else can be bothered..go for it..!
(but i hafta warn ya..!..i am thinking of changing yr name to slow-brian..
..you are teetering..!..)
@ phillip ure (5.1.1.2.1.1)
t.y.f.p.m.w.a.d.o.p.i.
Let me know if you are slow in getting this?
Mr. Botany (B.)
or can be bothered..?
+ 1 Phillip
I am beginning to think Boldasbrian may be a rightwing troll pretending to espouse labour/mana ideas but only in order to disrupt dialogue.
@ Karen
I am beginning to think Boldasbrian may be a rightwing troll pretending to espouse labour/mana ideas but only in order to disrupt dialogue.
Let’s look at that must influential right wing arsehole, Whaleoil. His 101 course says “Stay away from debating policy, ideas, and simply go on the attack. Sex if you can, but if that is missing, a good old ad hominem attack will suffice.
Now lets analyse your post……..
Mmmm
Brian, not sure where you are going with all this exactly, but it is generally agreed that DC and AL are to the left of the other three in terms of traditional left wing politics. People have said recently that Robertson is left wing too, but how I interpret that is that he is the most left of the neoliberals rather than being left itself – so he supports many single issue left wing policies, but I don’t see him intending to take the party left.
But you are right, it is very difficult to find these things out. Little managed to call himself left the other day but couldn’t bring himself to call Labour a left wing party. All the candidates appear to be equivocating and not really saying what they think or believe or what they will do. We’re still waiting on DC to take some actions that will swing the partly left again, but I suspect it’s a vain hope. I agree with Bill’s analysis on this, that unless DC plays hardball with the ABCs and demotes people, we’re just going to have BAU.
btw, I don’t usually read phil’s posts because of the … so I may be missing some context.
@ weka..
“..btw, I don’t usually read phil’s posts because of the …”
..the amount of times you have moaned at me makes bullshit of that claim..
You do know what the word usually means right? Because I’m about to use it again.
I have a go at your fundamentalist vegan comments sometimes, but any other comments I make are usually because I’ve read people’s responses to you. I rarely read your comments initally and almost never read the long ones, I just scroll on through, all day, every day.
Besides which, you comment so much that even if I moaned at you once a day that’s still a very small percentage of comments I would have to have read. Given I also comment a lot I think you will find that I don’t talk with you much at all relative to how much I say things.
So what’s this reallly all about? You don’t like that someone has said they don’t read your comments because of your use of punctution so you make up shit about them? 🙄
get a grip..!
“So what’s this reallly all about? You don’t like that someone has said they don’t read your comments because of your use of punctution so you make up shit about them? ”
‘Usually’
@Mr Ure: You want Labour to become the Green Party. Instead, why don’t you come clean and declare your Green membership?
neut..i have been very upfront that i am a member of mana..
..f.y.i..my lifetime voting-arc has been labour – green – mana..
..yr point..?
Mana or Internet-Mana…?
Are you a KDC supporter…? Joh Minto and Miss Harre, those disciplined fighters..?
Are you…?
Uh…?
@ neut..
..cd u go and stand over there in the corner with slow-brian..?..thank you..
and if you are asking if i think minto and harre (alongside harawira and sykes) wd have made great mp’s..?
..and wd have only enhanced our democratic-life/processes..?
..yes..yes i do think that..
voting-arc has been labour – green – mana..
It’s possible your voting views are the same now as when you began, while all the parties have skipped, slipped, shuffled, stepped or leaped to “the right”
mana/ imp emerged to fill the vacuum that was left
@ manuka..
..aye..!
Dude, maybe telling the Maori caucus they “must” do things is kinda offensive? They aren’t the brown Borg. Rino Tirikatene nominated Grant Robertson – he seems to think Grant is the best option. Other Maori MPs will have different views, and that’s ok.
@ keir..
..you are aware that speechmarks indicate a quote..?
..i never used the word ‘must’…i used the word ‘hope’..
..and i am not insinuating they are all the same..
..i am expressing the ‘hope’ they will be able to see what is best for those they represent..
..and that has to be cunliffe + a brace of progressive-policies..
..and a renouncing of the neo-lib policies that got us to this place of high poverty/inequality..
..esp. amongst maori/p.i..
..what is unclear about that..?
…. I wasn’t replying ….
…to you ….
apologies..
No it is not it is a wasted opportunity to have a real say within the party, splitting their vote is plan dumb. Where is the consultation with the people that put him there?
If the Maori caucus have different views on the leadership, then that’s ok. Maori within the party have different views on the leadership. As I say, not the brown Borg.
I’m sure Rino has consulted about this decision – I’m sure he’s been pretty fiercely lobbied to support Grant by a big chunk of his Wellington based membership, and I’m sure other people have had conversations with him about other possible leaders. But he has free agency and isn’t just a prop in your political game, and has made his mind up. I think that deserves respect, not some patronising and vaguely racist “dumb” comment.
Maori have their own seats and collectively need to maintain a position that best benefits the collective. You only have to look at the policy platform that Labour ran. No specfic economic development policy for Maori. I had a Maori MP bemoaning this very fact to me. You would naturally expect Mahuta and some other Maori MP’s will have learnt the lesson of the split from Labour that saw the formation of the Maori & Mana Party. It’s is not a racist issue. It is a bargaining tool of representing your ‘overall constituency’ to get the best deal possible for the people who have the worst statistic’s of neo liberalism. United you stand, and as history showed Maori electorate MP’s, divided you beg and suffer a revolt from the Maori voters.
Surely labour Māori MP’s are first labour MP’s and are beholden to labour and generally (apart from Tariana) toe the party line even if they may personally disagree with it. This is why someone will moan behind closed doors but not publicly about the lack of specific policies to address inequality affecting many Māori or your example of ‘no specific economic development policy for Māori’.
Whichever leader they personally vote for is irrelevant apart from their personal preference – the leader chosen will be the leader they follow.
Looks like Parker has done to Cunliffe what Roberston did to Shearer. Parker could withdraw from being a candidate.
Will need to see what happens in caucus tomorrow with Parker as he is interim leader and now a candidate.
Does natural justice come into this?
“Does natural justice come into this?”
Haven’t you been following the news? In NZ, the politics and justice are mutually exclusive.
I meant applied to Parker standing and Parker filling in.
I know how Key runs the show, his way and he does not work for NZ he works for another government.
Parker wants to stay on as interim leader, however the other candidates will force him aside. So it is King who will takeover, unless she stands too, which would add another round of laughs.
only comes into it
IF the party isnt following its own rules on leadership race
AND
if someone wants to go to the high court to challenge it
Thanks.
There is no natural justice when the knives are out in the pursue of power.
.
Pundit; Labour’s dilemma: The unelectable leader, by Tim Watkin
I endorse all that Tim Watkin has to say.
The above quote is about the UK.
The same applies in New Zealand.
Fuck Tony Blair. “Ultra-left” indeed. Lackey of transnational banking and oil interests. Part of the history of why UK Labour has a “paltry membership.” Because it suits a party elite consolidate its power over a political machine.
I see he is now doing standups in Palestine, as part of the refinancing of the reconstruction of Gaza and the “peace process”. The irony.
@ Colonial Rawshark (6.1)
I do not have much time for Tony Blair either. But I rarely paint all the opinions of anybody in black or white. I think Dirty John is perhaps our most obnoxious politician. But I sure as hell rate the ways he is dealing with MMP and coalition partners a lot higher than any of the Labour Leadership candidates appear to be doing at the moment.
I will certainly not defend Blair on banking and oil interests. His record on taking Britain into war. And whatever you say he is now doing in Palestine.
They are however nothing to do with the comment I made.
Your reply, trying to discredit an opinion by Tim Watkin about Labour Party methods of electing a leader, by the disgraceful actions of Tony Blair in the Middle East, is almost bizarre. But then Whaleoil has infused our political debate in an insidious manner.
Mr. Botany (B.)
I had a few friends in the UK Labour Party. Their complaint about Blair was that under his watch the UKLP became very authoritarian and dictatorial.
Tony Blair’s way of engaging with the electorate and getting them onside, is actually about engaging with the MSM and getting the MSM onside. Blair was always a favourite with the MSM long before he became leader (I was living in England at the time).
Many people left the UK LP under Balir’s watch because it became so authoritarian.
@ karol (6.1.1.1)
That’s a fair call, karol. Authoritarian and dictatorial aint nice.
The MMP environment in New Zealand may help. If people walk from Labour on the basis of Leadership style rather than policy differences, they may simply walk to the Greens or Mana. Which would not concern me at all.
But the issue of Blair’s authoritarian style, is not quite the main point that I saw in Tim Watkin’s article in “Pundit”: With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups? And the point he made, that while the membership may be given a large vote, the membership are not directly accountable to the electorate.
Are the Labour Party members demanding the Leader wear a large steel ball on his leg, as he is told to swim from one election to the next?
I do not have the full answer. I’m not totally convinced of my own position. The Greens for example appear to live in perfect harmony with flowers and nature, and yet have, potentially, the same issues. How does it work for them so well?
Mr. Botany (B.)
With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups? And the point he made, that while the membership may be given a large vote, the membership are not directly accountable to the electorate.
The first sentence is even more applicable to the Labour Party caucus.
The MPs require an active membership base in order to engage with the electorate. Without that, it is mainly the MPs talking to the electorate via the distorting mechanism of the MSM.
Are the Labour Party
memberscaucus demanding the Leader wear a large steel ball on his leg, as he is told to swim from one election to the next?FIFY
@ karol (6.1.1.1.1.1)
The first sentence (With a small Party membership are there any safeguards from being prey to sectarian special interest groups) is even more applicable to the Labour Party caucus.
The numbers are obviously smaller, so it would appear so. But the big difference is that the caucus are more directly accountable to the electorate. Sharpens the mind, when your job is on the line.
(depending on how representative the Labour membership is of the voters that the Party is trying to attract)
~~~~~
The MPs require an active membership base in order to engage with the electorate. Without that, it is mainly the MPs talking to the electorate via the distorting mechanism of the MSM.
There is a big assumption here. (That I have referred to in my reply to Olwyn (6.3.1), and was the main point of the article by Tim Watkin in the Pundit: How representative are the Labour members of the electorate? Especially with a small membership?
My own experience with Labour members at an electorate level, suggests that Labour members are a thoroughly nice lot of people, but definitely a unique group of people. If MPs relied only on this group of people “to engage with the electorate” they would be dog tucker before lunch time.
You have put up an alternative, in which you suggest the other main way the MPs can engage with the electorate are through the MSM. Yeah, that is one way, but as we know from the last election, if they relied only on this group of people, they would be dog tucker before morning tea.
The truth is that a good MP will be meeting voters in the electorate as part of the job, every day. Meeting members of the Party will be a very important part of that process. And so will listening to the MSM. And so will attending meetings of local groups, door knocking, attending public events etc. It’s a full time job. That can be done well, or poorly. Can they filter out the bullshit? Even more difficult, can they listen to criticism, and take on board what is fair criticism? And harder still, adapt to that fair criticism?
And the smart parties use technology. Drum roll Kim Dotcom, obviously …. but as far as web presence is concerned, I do not know that the Greens could be trumped. And the master of them all, drum roll (of all people), Dirty John, the master of the POLL. The Nats have no philosophy, but adapt the flavour of this weeks announcements to what David Farrar tells them is concerning the voters most in the last week. There is something missing here, surely ….but, hell, it is mightily effective. At least at knowing what is on the public’s mind. I can surely assert with 101% confidence, that the information is a zillion times more valuable than listening only to the Party members.
(Just tell me WHY Dirty John has suddenly hopped on board his form of an interest in poverty?)
Mr. Botany (B.)
The Greens for example appear to live in perfect harmony with flowers and nature, and yet have, potentially, the same issues. How does it work for them so well?
The Greens DO NOT tolerate dissent at all. They squash it and force members to follow the official line. In fact, few of those members ever dare to open their mouths, because the Green Party is under the firm control of its leadersship.
The questions is: for how long? Electoral defeats like the last one cannot be neither pleasing nor kept away from Green supporters.
^^ Sounds like a RWNJ making shit up.
Neuted, the Greens are the most democratic party in parliament.
+1
He’s probably referring to David Hay who challenged Norman’s leadership in an election year, and did various things to undermine the party. He got suspended for a year.
Toryobserver is not neutral at all. Their job is to spread Whalespew memes and they are as cunning as one and a half turnips.
What?
The Green Party members I know are not at all like the ones you describe.
Then again, perhaps your idea of “dissent” is cretinous denial of scientific evidence or something. After all, you exhibit so little self-awareness in your choice of pseudonym.
I love how you are ducking and weaving from the obvious. You accept that Blair was highly authoritarian in his control over the party. You accept that Blair’s moral and economic legacy are pro-war and pro-corporates.
Yet you still stand by Blair’s quotes about the necessity of party democracy and being accountable to ordinary people when history makes it crystal clear that he is only spinning lines and believes in no such thing himself.
Get with it man.
@ Colonial Rawshark (6.1.1.1.1.3)
I love how you are ducking and weaving from the obvious
I love how you appear as an irritating little fly, asking to be swatted.
~~~~~~~
You accept that Blair was highly authoritarian in his control over the party. You accept that Blair’s moral and economic legacy are pro-war and pro-corporates.
I am willing to accept propositions such as you have asserted. They are all possible, but totally irrelevant to what we were discussing. My main criticism of Blair relate to his actions in taking the UK into war on evidence that appears to have been a lie. Again, this is totally irrelevant to what we were discussing.
~~~~~~~
Yet you still stand by Blair’s quotes about the necessity of party democracy and being accountable to ordinary people when history makes it crystal clear that he is only spinning lines and believes in no such thing himself.
I’m always wary of other people’s interpretations of what has been said, when the actual words are available. The tactic may work in verbal debates, but I’m buggered if I’m going to be fooled into “standing by” your interpretations.
The words that Tim Watkin wrote in his Pundit article, and I reproduced were:
Now this has nothing to do with Blair’s authoritarian style; it has nothing to do with his “pro-wars” and his “pro-corporates”.
Blair made a comment that UK Labour “became prey to sectarian groups from the Ultra-Left”. Tim Watkin said that was a “decent explanation for why the party remained in opposition for seventeen years after “empowering” members”
And I agree with Tim Watkin’s assessment, that it was a decent explanation.
Now you can avoid the point of the article by introducing debates about all sorts of red herrings as long as you like. But if you have any concerns about the possibility of New Zealand Labour going through 17 years of opposition – as I do – then I think the issue of that ‘decent explanation’ needs serious consideration
one thing is the greens know who and particularly what they stand for, and then they choose a leader.
LP is at best schizophrenic and its leaders somewhat self interested…
trust us we know what we are doing…
yea right
all evidence to the contrary.
@ Tracey (6.1.1.1.1.4)
What a wonderful post. What comes first is the vision, then the policies. The vision is paramount. You also accurately refer to it as “what they stand for”.
Everything else you say is spot on.
Labour presumably has a vision. It will be tucked away on a web page somewhere. It probably needs dusting off to see the light of day, considering everyone I speak to says that Labour seemed to “not know what the hell they were all about themselves”.
It certainly never saw the light of day during the election. The election appeared to be more about scoring points off Key, and reacting to events, rather than setting the agenda.
It’s not rocket science. And fortunately it is not too hard to fix. The harder part seems to be accepting that it is indeed a problem.
Mr. Botany (B.)
@ karol..
..i cringe in embarrassment that initially i welcomed the rise of tony blair and ‘new labour’..
..whereas he was just thatcherism in labour-drag..
Blair gave an impression of fresh-faced youthful naive keenness for a better society, an open, cheerful face that seemed to offer the promise of a new and better direction.
We need someone to invent special glasses that we can put on when looking at pollies that accentuates the small indications in their expressions to show the real character. Sort of like our own personal cartoonist – one of Terry Pratchett’s imps in a box perhaps.
And we could have a special voice tone gadget as sound techs use, that would be like a worm on the speaker, not for the reaction. That would shoot up and down to match the subterfuge level and a lie would go sky high, and a false promise ring a bell, loudly. We can’t trust ourselves and our own brains to do this obviously, after this recent election.
And perhaps we need to sit a basic test about government, the financial state of the country, our unemployment figures, and how our stats record these, before we can vote. We don’t let children or teenagers vote. But they may be more informed than many of us, and probably would make as good choices!
(On reported stats note Mike Joy, environmental scientist on Radionz talking to Kathryn Ryan this morning, taking the MoE and local bodies to task for formulating a populist, simple and false summary from a technical document on the state of our waterways, not indicated by the data at all, which in its turn is only for the last ten years which should be 15 to get a full picture of the decline of our water quality. Also note he says that Taranaki is the worst area. I think they had 77 monitoring sites but only reported data from 11.
You have to listen and try and understand to this, to be an informed citizen. I think a test should be a necessity before being able to vote. People whose heads only understand computer games moves, sporting details, tv personalities opinions and what their best friend did to make their car go faster should be left on Planet Zero.)
edited
It was Watkin who argued that because something was the case in Britain it must be so here. Not Colonial Rawshark.
@ mikesh (6.1.1.2)
(This reply copied from incorrect position at 6.6)
It was Watkin who argued that because something was the case in Britain it must be so here
First my mistake. Tim Watkin should read Phil Quin.
However, Phil Quin did not argue that.
I recommend you review Phil Quin’s article in full
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/labours-dilemma-the-unelectable-leader
boldsirbrian
Phil Quinn is a floating piece of polystyrene. Goes anywhere the tide takes it and can never be sunk. As far as I can see that is. Just from looking at his past history. He makes his money from being a mouth with things to say that might create interest in the media from which he speaks. But what quality?
You will be hard pressed to point out any ultra left NZ Labour members or ultra left sectarian NZ Labour Party members. Go on.
The LP ideology is reformism. Aka social democracy–the outward presentation of which changes from time to time while remaining class collaborationist at core. It is the antithesis of revolution or a fundamental change in class power.
But having said that, more democracy in most settings from the bowling club on up is generally positive compared to less democracy. So yes Cunliffe is probably somewhat unwillingly and likely unknowingly the best bet for Labour leader as long as he wields the axe through LECs etc to the obvious rogernomes and is influenced to support the right of workers to strike etc.
The main stream media and some of the blogs are part of the capitalist superstructure. It does not look like a one party state apparatus but has the same effect. Whaleboil with over 930 posts on David Cunliffe–what is that all about?
As I see it, the LP membership is pretty representative of LP voters, and they are not hard left. Moreover, these people want to be represented and also want their side to win – hence they do not disregard the electability of candidates in casting their votes. They gain nothing by their side winning, however, if that side does not see fit to represent them. The tension is not between over-ideological members and the broad electorate, it is between people who seek representation from the centre left, and wealthy potential donors/influencers who do not want to see those people honestly represented. The “centre” and the “electorate” are euphemisms for this.
Meanwhile, the precariat, both middle class and poor, are accumulating a “Boston tea-party” case – no taxation without representation. They pay GST on every meagre item they consume, but no one really wants to represent them.
@ Olwyn (6.3)
As I see it, the LP membership is pretty representative of LP voters
How do we know that Olwyn?
And even if that is true, are they representative of Labour Party Voters, and those other voters that we would like to be voting Labour?
Why would you expect them to be?
Here’s the thing, that piece by Phil Quinn is his typical bullshit. The idea that he is a disniterseted player is laughable. Now you can come at me with ‘oh but that’s ad hom’ and I’ll just ask you why on earth I should trust him?
Is he an a traight up guy? Does he have an agenda? Does he have a history of playing bullshit games?
These are avild questions to bear in mind when considering his argument that the leadership should be left up to caucus.
He claims that a opure caucus decision would be more democratic because MPs have been voted for. But that leaves aside the fairly salient pooint of how MPs are selected. He doesn;t want a borader range of input into leadership selection, he wants it controlled by a smaller group. Not coincidently, he has a history of playing games within that small group that he thinks should have control.
@ olwyn..
“..Meanwhile, the precariat, both middle class and poor, are accumulating a “Boston tea-party” case – no taxation without representation. They pay GST on every meagre item they consume, but no one really wants to represent them..”
that is a very good point there..olwyn..
@ Olwyn 6.3
You sound perfectly right. But as boldsirB asks – how do you know definitely about Labour members? Is there a way of knowing or accurately positing?
Hi greywarshark:
Olwyn, like me, is a member of the Labour Party who no doubt has known and socialised with many members over the years. I think we both have a good understanding of those members and how they are likely to respond to party matters. As Olwyn says, they are not hard left (far from it) and they certainly are not unintelligent. The problem which seems to have developed over a long period of time is that certain Labour MPs no longer seem willing to recognise that our viewpoints are very important and worth listening to…
The most obvious example is that many of us knew Labour’s major policy planks were not sitting well with the general public (more to do with presentation than the sentiments behind them) yet our oft repeated concerns were ignored.
On a related note I listened to Williams and Hooton on RNZ this morning and noticed that when discussing the leadership contest – especially as it related to David Cunliffe – both of them avoided mentioning the elephant in the room. That is, the effect of Dirty Politics and Key’s successful campaign in turning the blame around on the left and Labour in particular. When you add the also highly successful Liu campaign to smear Cunliffe then it is grossly unfair to label Cunliffe as a failure as both of them did. He made some mistakes, but they know only too well he was also destroyed by sinister forces out of his and Labour’s control.
Having said the above, I have not yet made a decision how I intend to vote and I suspect I am far from being alone. So, media suggestions that so and so is way ahead… and someone else is history… is just mindless speculation.
+1 Anne and Olwyn
As far as I can make out the problem is that members elect leaders rather than set policy. A parties politicians should be their only to advance what the party membership decides democratically.
This come upon two other issues:
1. People just aren’t used to having that sort input and control and so don’t have the self-confidence to do it and
2. Getting people to engage at that level is difficult
Then there’s the caucus that just don’t want to let power slip from their hands to those of the membership.
Thanks Anne, for coming to my defence – I had to run after writing that and have only just got back. I learned of David Cunliffe’s withdrawal on the bus, in a phone call from someone living in Australia. I will follow David’s advice and vote for Andrew Little now, but I have to admit I am finding the parliamentary LP very hard to like at the moment.
when did the uk introduce MMP?
@ mikesh (6.1.1.2)
It was Watkin who argued that because something was the case in Britain it must be so here
First my mistake. Tim Watkin should read Phil Quin.
However, Phil Quin did not argue that.
I recommend you review Phil Quin’s article in full
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/labours-dilemma-the-unelectable-leader
I read a lot about the enthusiasm for Labour Party “democracy” with the members having 40% of the leadership vote. Now maybe Im a FPP kind of fossil (TLH was from the Wizzard of Id cartoons way way back) but why is voting for the leader a big deal to party members?
As members, you have opportunity through your own branches, and I understand via the LEC and via conferences to contribute to policies that you want Labour to promote. And then once they are sorted, your team goes out and promotes those policies to the electorate, and you either win or do not win the election.
If its because you cant trust your MPs in Wellington to do as the party members have agreed, then change the MPs.
Why not get the 2017 list sorted by late 2015, and put those who arent with the program, in list positions from 50-60, and then open their electorate nominations at the same time. They might get the picture about then.
Its not too dissimilar to what the Nats have done in the past, and to the electorate in general, it looks like renewal.
I have some questions.
Who is heading this Labour Party review process? Has anyone even been appointed? If so, have they actually started and why have members not been advised?
I ask these questions because after the initial announcement there appears to have been nothing…
The acting leader, in conjunction with the Party President, are the obvious people to draft the brief and to come up with a short list of people to head the review. I’d guess the NZ Council would have to sign it off.
The acting leader has been focused on his own career rather than the furure of the Party.
+100 Anne
The interesting part is which of the candidates will win more votes in the Labour caucus.
Now that Parker has entered the race, the split will increase among MPs, although it seems DC has the least chances and Grant Robertson the upper hand and could win the internal battle. Outside caucus is a different matter altogether.
^^^ Another RWNJ that doesn’t understand preferential voting.
A curious thing seems to be happening amongst the large and loaded. A couple of recent social events have led to well-heeled people talking about the injustice of the low waged not being paid enough to even live on.
There is a clear current in the community (right across it) that the lot of the low-paid is unjust and mean, not to mention grossly insufficient.
These rich people are genuinely concerned and want to see it remedied … an interesting phenomenon. Of course then the conversation gets lost in the way to achieve that, always ending up at the cost of money i.e. the bankers.
most interesting
To quote Draco: “We cannot afford the rich.”
“.. data from property analysis company CoreLogic has shown activity among investors who owned two or more properties had hit a 10-year high. Big investors with more than 10 properties were the most active, buying about two out of every five homes in August. ”
that worked well then!!
It screams big bust looming it does …..
Just incase anyone thought there was any legitimate reason to sell off power asset shares:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/10608177/Accessing-Mighty-Rivers-golden-stream
Who is Mr Nash working for, other than himself? Why this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11340308
That’s the sound of some National Party ratfuckers demonstrating their perfidy and false friendship.
It begs the question of why now?
And where are the replies to the email?
Today I am announcing my candidacy for leader of the Labour Party.
My platform is:
1. Group therapy for the entire Labour caucus.
2. Ego management therapy for most of the male caucus members.
May I offer one suggestion with that campaign AmaKiwi.
Coffee enemias would be a good start, all round.
and retirement plannning.
lolz
Will you take Mr Phil Ure as Deputy Leader? He has also put his name in the hat.
Kathryn Ryan on ‘Nine to Noon’ with Hooton and Williams.
Hooton and (friend) Williams both bag David Cunliffe ….and seem positive towards Little and Parker
..Williams and (friend) Hooton both praise John Key on security and terrorism and war matters
….Hooton bags Facebook page in support of Cunliffe…says he and his friends are signing it to get Labour to lose again ( so the 5,000 signatures in support of Cunliffe are really fake signatures of support)….at this point Kathryn Ryan bags political blogs …doesnt take any notice of them
imo …this slot is NOT worth listening to …except to find out how Hooton is spinning the right wing agenda on the Labour Party and what Labour should be doing and where it should be going…..and wonder at how Hooton has Kathryn Ryan and Mike Williams wrapped around his little finger!…no hard questions are asked on this show …and there is no contradiction of what Hooton says…it should be called the ‘Hooton Political Spin Report’
…surely radionz could do better than this!
True. Another shocker from Ryan & friends.
No doubt MW is openly against DC and doing whatever possible to see him defeated.
Oh foreshore foreshore the biased angst of Ryan is painful and Mike is getting like like a lot of us over 60, the realization that this Key winning the last 3 elections was no boyhood wet dream
I just regret not finding his ivory tower back in the early 80’s and smashing it to hell before he could ever get started
The amount of stupid in this article is mind-boggling :
“Greens-induced law is kinder to cattle” – http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/10602636/Greens-induced-law-is-kinder-to-cattle
What, you mean that the woman basically argues that women should be treated the same as the slave cows in industrial dairying, and be forced to breed?
Yep. And that because people are against forced induction at 8 months then they should be against women having a choice in the first few months.
And that when a Bill passes a majority apparently it’s the Greens fault alone.
What I didn’t understand is how the cows get pregnant out of synch with the other cows. I thought that kind of farming was tightly controlled, so isn’t this down to the farmer?
..and Cunliffe’s out.
That’s what twitter says – not yet confirmed though. Cunlifffe to hold a press conference at 2pm
Carney raises the heat on climate: you can’t burn all the oil
Apparently even some banksters recognise reality.
That aint workin thats the way u do it
You play the voters on telliviz see
For gods sake get some policies that represent the labour voters
and attack National for its abuse of the poor and democracy and the parliamentary process
National should have been gone by lunch time this election
Their actions as a govt have been close to a crime on to many occassions
Now the bastard wants to waste more of the countries resources getting us involved deeper in a war that is really the responsibility of the US UK France and any other nation directly involved in the mess since 911 get real we are 4 million people making a mess in our own backyard Clean that up Key
And probably were on many of those occasions.
Worker Owned Cooperative Produces Independent Media
Will be interesting to see how it goes.
@DTB…wow interesting!…we need that sort of cooperative grassroots media here ….and combined with a radio station!
….could really change the political and media landscape… and God knows we need it!
It’d be excellent in changing our media landscape. Done well it’d show our present MSM up as the National poodles that they are.
I am wondering if United Future has 500 members. This can also be said about the ACT party.
When your rights are under attack – STAND UP!
FIGHT BACK!
FYI
__________________________________________________________________________________________
13 October 2014
MEDIA UPDATE – Penny Bright
“Legal spanner now in the works to help stop the forced rating sale of my home.”
I have just received this email from Auckland Council’s Senior Solicitor, Civil Litigation, regarding my:
1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)
2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding
which were filed on Thursday 9 October 2014. and Friday 10 October 2014 respectively.
The next step is for the Auckland District Court to set a hearing date to hear these two ‘intertwined’ matters.
Auckland Council intends to oppose these applications.
In the meantime – High Court proceedings to sell my home are effectively stalled.
Legally, these applications are effectively a big, fat spanner in the Auckland Council works, in their historic and legally unprecedented attempt to force the rating sale of a freehold home.
This stand that I am making is in defence of the lawful rights of ALL citizens and ratepayers for transparency and accountability of Auckland Council rates spending.
How many billion$ are being spent by Auckland Council and Auckland Council Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) on private sector consultants and contractors?
What are the NAMES of these private sector consultants and contractors?
What is the SCOPE of these contracts?
What is the TERM of these contracts?
What is the VALUE of these contracts?
Why aren’t citizens and ratepayers being given these ‘devilish details’?
It’s OUR public money!
Where EXACTLY is it going?
How can you have transparency or accountability, without proper written records?
The Public Records Act 2005, makes this a clear statutory requirement of local authorities under section 17 :
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345729.html
Recordkeeping requirements
Subpart 1—Key duties
17 Requirement to create and maintain records
(1) Every public office and local authority must create and maintain full and accurate records of its affairs, in accordance with normal, prudent business practice, including the records of any matter that is contracted out to an independent contractor.
(2) Every public office must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all public records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act or required by or under another Act.
(3) Every local authority must maintain in an accessible form, so as to be able to be used for subsequent reference, all protected records that are in its control, until their disposal is authorised by or under this Act.
__________________________________________________________
Where are the STATUTORY ‘Third Party Public Watchdogs’ on this issue?
Why are they apparently so spectacularly useless?
Where are Transparency International New Zealand?
Given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, according to the 2013 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – shouldn’t we be the MOST transparent?
Where is the NZ ‘Tax Payers’ Union?
Don’t they purportedly support transparency in government spending?
Why does an ordinary citizen like myself, feel the need to take such an extraordinary stand, in order to ensure that Auckland Council follows the law?
Because NOBODY else is trying to hold Auckland Council and their ‘Corporate Controlled Organisations (CCOs), accountable to the law.
That is why believe that this draconian attempt is being made to ‘neck stamp’ me – because I am an outspoken anti-corruption ‘whistle-blower’ – who has been ‘blowing the whistle until my eyeballs bleed’ (as it were 🙂
I look forward to defending myself in the Auckland District Court (again), against Auckland Council (again), as happened when I was individually singled out over the Occupy Auckland legal proceedings, as a ‘Named Defendant’.
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz
In the Occupy Auckland case, it was proven (again) that you CAN ‘beat City Hall’.
At the end of the day, I feel very comfortable and relaxed in anticipation that although these proceedings were started by Auckland Council – that I shall (again) finish them ……
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014
…………………………….
…………………………….
__________________________________________________________
Case Management Team
Auckland District Court
The Auckland Council has been served the attached applications by Ms Penny Bright (“applications”):
1. Application to set aside judgment (of the District Court dated 24 Feb 2012)
2. Interlocutory application for stay of proceeding
The Council intends to oppose the applications.
I understand that the court has yet to allocate a hearing date. Given that the applications are intertwined, could you please ensure that they are heard together.
I look forward to receiving the notice of hearing for the applications.
Ngā mihi | Regards
John Hilario BA LLB | Senior Solicitor – Civil Litigation
Legal Services | Auckland Council
…………………………………………
…………………………………………
Visit our website: http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz
Auckland Council
+100.. Go Penny!….brave anti-corruption campaigner
TED Talk| Pia Mancini: How to upgrade democracy for the Internet era
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Your home will be raided and your computers will be taken in.
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“test”
What?
Read this from Snowden:
And wondered, after all he’d been through, how he could be so naive. Doesn’t he realise that the government today works for the companies?
The answer doesn’t lie in private business and competition but in us being cooperative and using OpenSource software and hardware.
Nah, the real naivete is that he is wrong. Nobody much cares that they have no privacy. We’re the most watched people in human history and we just don’t care. If anything, we rush to out ourselves on fb and similar platforms.
Speak for yourself Te Reo Putake. I think the majority of people are willfully unaware they are the most watched people in history. They think, it’s not them being watched by the corporate edifice, it’s someone else – the bad people.
They have not realised they are living in the corporate elects piffling smoke screen. Actually I think the majority here are willfully ignorant of the power of the corporations. They seem to think this or that politician is somehow above or removed from this corporate giant. It’s a worry – it’s also the reason I don’t comment on the posts about this or that political party shenanigans very much.
It’s also the reason I say labour are dead – if you think any political party can drag us back from this corporatocracy you’re living in – I want what your smoking.
Because after low wage, is no wage.
Working people have nothing in common with their rules – the sooner they realise the elites hate them with a vengeance – the better.
Paul Henry in the morning – yuk.
http://www.3news.co.nz/business/paul-henry-to-host-cross-platform-breakfast-show-2014101316
Michael Wilson and Sacha McNeil do a great job…. so they obviously need to be replaced.
James Macbeth Dann @edmuzik 3 hrs,
“so Foodstuffs have finally admitted that it was their produce that was linked to the Yersinia outbreak. The CDHB knew last week
but the CDHB was asked by the MPI not to release the names, as they might damage the brands. As opposed to damaging people. With illness”
https://twitter.com/edmuzik/status/521534681083154433
Government of the people, by the politicians for the corporations.
People who put the corporations before the people need to be locked away for our safety.
Foodstuffs needs to fire Carrick Graham.
He’s toxic
Appalling
Mr Key said the Ministry was dealing with the outbreak as best it can.
“You wouldn’t want them jumping to conclusions, naming products, naming suppliers or naming supermarkets when it’s not exactly clear what is the particular product that is causing these tummy bugs.”
Next story in National: Call for police to be fully armed
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/220500-dick-morris-clinton-orchestrated-panettas-hit-on-obama
US Dirty politics for anyone who is interested, Tactics sound familiar?