Open mike 13/11/2011

84 comments on “Open mike 13/11/2011 ”

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1. mouse 1

   13 November 2011 at 7:18 am

   The ayatollah discussing tactics with the Hezbollah …>

   “The secret “cup of tea” conversation between Prime Minister John Key and Act’s John Banks has been captured on a recording given to the Herald on Sunday.”

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10765711

   It is in the Public interest that this should be made public… Come on herald, shit or get off the pottie.
   • Carol 1.1

     13 November 2011 at 7:56 am

     I doubt that it is very significant or icriminating, otherwise why would the NZH mention it, or DF say it should be published? And it was recorded by a press cameraman, and given to NZH. So who was the cameraman working for, and why didn’t his usualy media outlet take it?
     • rosy 1.1.1

       13 November 2011 at 8:27 am

       But the potential disclosure of the contents of that conversation – held only a metre away from the closest reporters – could yet throw a rocket into this election campaign. It is a game-changer.

       According to The Herald it very well could be significant. An interesting tone in this article.
       • Carol 1.1.1.1

         13 November 2011 at 8:35 am

         Hmmm… well I’m not certain what an NZH journo would regard as a “game changer”. but it’s looking a bit like some fracturing within National ranks between the neoliberal NActoids and the old pre-neolib conservatives who have more affinity with NZ First.

         Also I thought it was interesting that TV One bent it’s debate criteria to let Winston into their leaders’ debate.
         • Salsy 1.1.1.1.1

           13 November 2011 at 9:15 am

           I think you will find Farrar certainly does not support the release of the recordings unless it was said to reveal massive wrong doing. At the very least, the recording could be ‘game changer ‘ simply due to the fact it may reveal another side of Key to the general public.
     • Blue 1.1.2

       13 November 2011 at 10:12 am

       The NZ media never cease to disgust me. They have a recording they describe as a ‘game-changer’ and yet they won’t let the public know what it says? It’s yet another example of how they put the interests of the politicians above those of the public.

       It beggars belief that the Herald on Sunday, not known for it’s stance on ethical journalism in any other respect, suddenly goes all coy when it comes to embarrassing Key and Banks.

       They’ve been told they could legally publish it, but chose not to. At the same time they have an editorial urging voters to abandon Winston Peters and had one some time ago urging people to vote for Act in Epsom.

       The Herald is bad enough, but the Herald on Sunday editors are just unadulterated Tory shills who are a disgrace to the name of journalism.
2. John Dalley 2

   13 November 2011 at 7:26 am

   Is the shenanigans in Epsom, John Key’s covert attempt to get rid of MMP?
3. Pete George 3

   13 November 2011 at 7:46 am

   This probably won’t be the most popular post here day – the Kiwiblog candidate.

   The Standard has also contributed substantially, but I doubt name inclusion would be appreciated.
4. Campbell Larsen 4

   13 November 2011 at 8:31 am

   The tea tape is a charade – the mic stands out on the table like dogs balls, and despite a security service that cleared the cafe presumably as a precaution they neglected to remove a mysterious object on the table? Yeah right.
   We are expected to believe that Shonkey and the racist actually discussed things that would be embarrassing when there are no less than 6 tv cameras less than 3 feet away?
   This is a cheap stunt to whip up/ justify media attention – it appears like this is to be the next installment in the discredit MMP campaign by Act and National.
   Throw in the lame ‘release in the public interest’ even if if breaches privacy aspect and we see this stunt for what it is – a cynical ploy by two contrived, unprincipled and devious politicians and their campaign team.
   Hollow men and slipping masks.
   • Carol 4.1

     13 November 2011 at 8:44 am

     You could be right, CL. Something about the NZH pushing this story, and the way they’re telling it suggests it shouldn’t be taken at face value… something else going on.
     • tc 4.1.1

       13 November 2011 at 8:47 am

       Anytime DF gets on a bandwagon you can pretty much bank it having a NACT logo….move on people, don’t give the odious pair anymore airtime.

       They don’t want asset sales etc discussed so this’s diversionary, disregard and focus folks….another media con.
     • Colonial Viper 4.1.2

       13 November 2011 at 8:54 am

       NZH not publishing this story for ‘ethical reasons’ ROFLMAO!

       Yeah its got the feel of a setup job.
   • Deuto 4.2

     13 November 2011 at 8:49 am

     IMO it was ‘curious” to say the least that the little black case was left on the table in full view of everyone including Banks and Key, security and the press throughout the cosy cup of tea – paricularly in terms of security. It all seemed too contrived to me.
   • just saying 4.3

     13 November 2011 at 8:56 am

     Yeah, seems llike a pretty blatant one to me.
     Farrar is urging it be released. It will be imo, and before the election, and the contents, beyond a bit of necessary fluff, will be of strategic advantage to National – ‘straight out of the horse’s mouth….’ Apparently…
5. mouse 5

   13 November 2011 at 9:10 am

   I suspect the conversation involved John Banks offering to kiss John Key’s ring…In a totally Tony Saprano, kind of way of course.
6. chris73 6

   13 November 2011 at 9:11 am

   John Key meeting John Banks: Bad

   Anderton endorsing Woods illegaly: No comment

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764687

   http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Jim-Anderton-and-Labour-Candidate.jpg
   • lprent 6.1

     13 November 2011 at 10:21 am

     I just find it weird that the electoral commission would find a sitting MP saying who they liked amongst their successors potentially criminal. After all you are talking about someone who has been sitting in that seat for decades and they will have views on the subject. I would also be interested in the views of Rodney Hide on John Banks as his successor in Epsom and a range of other successions..

     Why no posts on it? We as authors here have a tendency not to write opinion posts on matters that the police have under active investigation. At most we’d usually write a news post leaving out the details of the person under investigation. The police often find no reason to charge, and the last thing you want is to have a record of wild accusations floating around permanently on the net. We will often start writing opinion posts when the police conclude their investigation and if they decide to lay charges. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, but an author had better be prepared to defend their choices to other authors in the inevitable email discussions that will ensue.

     But of course based on some of your comments I would say that you read Whaleoil. He doesn’t believe that ideas of civilized (and often potentially illegal) behavior should constrain him whilst claiming such protections for himself. It is the viewpoint of a sociopath – who has a number of convictions demonstrating the views of society for that type of behavior.

     It is rather distressing that many of the blogs on the right have been so pushed by the views of such a person into following the same destructive ways. But the right are usually defined by their inability to think and their mobbing behavior – like all sheep.

     That isn’t our standard
     • chris73 6.1.1

       13 November 2011 at 10:30 am

       “It is rather distressing that many of the blogs on the right have been so pushed by the views of such a person into following the same destructive ways. But the right are usually defined by their inability to think and their mobbing behavior – like all sheep.”

       I also read no right turn, kiwiblog, red alert, bowalley road, cactus kate and (obviously) the standard

       I find it helps me to get a wider, broader view of NZ politics and too not be so narrow minded and dismissive of other peoples views
       • lprent 6.1.1.1

         13 November 2011 at 11:07 am

         So you didn’t want to answer my point that answered your question? I wonder why.

         Instead you concentrated on an side-observation. That you probably read the other blogs is obvious if you are reading both here and there. The two blogs are on opposite directions in almost every way. I read most blogs around including those mentioned and quite a few others both here and overseas. How else would I be able to offer the opinion that I did?

         But if you are interested in that issue then perhaps you should look more deeply at the divergent behaviors between the blogs. Ignore the opinions and look at what they actually do. You’ll notice that individuals like Cactus Kate, Chris Trotter, Idiot Savant, etc are quite careful about when they write about people, clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is opinion, and are also careful to distinguish between the public and private spheres. Many of these bloggers are legally trained or have had some training in the legalities of public opinion – but more importantly the vast body of argument about why these laws exist (I’ve had basic legal training in two of my degrees, study the history of why the law evolved, and had to put up with living with and reading my ex’s books and notes as she went through law school). They understand the nuances of civilized behavior.

         As I read around the minor blogs of the right Whales, No Minister, adamsmith, Inventory2, Maeger and others on the right (and a couple on the left) – you find that delicacy and awareness of the nuances of the issues of public opinion missing. While probably entertaining to the participants in the manner of all self-fulfillment activities it results in low readerships, few comments, unacceptable legal risk levels, introduces a coarseness into the debate and idiotic.

         David Farrar over kiwiblog has been increasingly indulging in it especially in his posts when it comes up to elections. He doesn’t effectively constrain the sewer that is his comments section. The inevitable effect is that his blog is essentially moribund or going backwards in readership whereas ours keeps pushing past his in everything apart from self-promotion (we haven’t bothered).
         • chris73 6.1.1.1.1

           13 November 2011 at 2:21 pm

           That you consider this site superior to kiwiblog says it all
           • lprent 6.1.1.1.1.1

             13 November 2011 at 2:38 pm

             Evidentially so do many others… That is why our page views and visitors keep rising over average, and kiwiblog is on average declining.

             I guess you don’t believe people voting with their fingers. Or market responses
             • Deuto …

               13 November 2011 at 2:55 pm

               Fully support you lprent re this site. I also read across a range of sites but the Standard is the one I read the most, and haven’t visited Kiwiblog, Whaleoil for quite some time and don’t intend to as can’t be bothered wasting my time with the low level of posts and comments there.
             • Colonial Viper …

               13 November 2011 at 9:48 pm

               I guess you don’t believe people voting with their fingers. Or market responses

               Oooh the invisible hand of the free market choosing the superior option and working for the Left. Haha, that must sting.
           • Jackal 6.1.1.1.1.2

             13 November 2011 at 3:29 pm

             It’s not just the content that makes The Standard superior to Kiwibog, it’s the interface and search features not to mention admin who don’t ignore their own policy. Good stuff.
           • Ianupnorth 6.1.1.1.1.3

             13 November 2011 at 7:51 pm

             A rancid fart whilst inside a lift travelling very slowly is far more pleasant than Kiwiblog
   • Lanthanide 6.2

     13 November 2011 at 10:24 am

     It’s only technically illegal. If he had got his party secretary to authorize it and the contents were exactly the same, it would be ok, right?

     Whaleoil is simply wasting police time with trivial complaints that they aren’t going to uphold or progress.
     • chris73 6.2.1

       13 November 2011 at 10:34 am

       So why didn’t he do it? I just don’t understand why Labour MPs (and its mostly Labour) don’t bother to follow the rules, is it arrogance or incompetence?
       • Lanthanide 6.2.1.1

         13 November 2011 at 1:49 pm

         Likely he didn’t even think it would be an issue, because in reality it isn’t an issue. Oh no, a politician released a political statement, stop the presses!

         I don’t think it’s a matter of “incompetence”, more a matter of “being busy doing their jobs that they don’t have time to waste on minutia that doesn’t matter”.
       • Daveosaurus 6.2.1.2

         13 November 2011 at 10:13 pm

         Anderton is no more a Labour MP than that crooked old racist Peters is a National MP.
7. joe90 7

   13 November 2011 at 9:48 am

   US military expansionism continues with plans to establish a larger presence in Australia..

   THE expanded American military presence in Australia – to be formally announced next week by the US President, Barack Obama – will result in vastly more US ships, planes and soldiers visiting and being stationed in the nation’s north, the government says.
   As the government all but confirmed yesterday’s Herald report that US Marines and materiel would be shifted to Darwin, the Greens said the move would annoy Australia’s neighbours, including China, and make the nation a bigger military target.
   • uke 7.1

     13 November 2011 at 9:53 am

     Darwin: also nice and handy if a future NACT government ever wanted to contract out some military liason/enforcement tasks.
8. Mark Wilson 8

   13 November 2011 at 10:10 am

   Be honest – if this had happened to Goff and the Greens the left would be crying foul about invasion of privacy. All the comment on the Standard from the left involves situational ethics or is childish abuse, and that’s just the articles!
   Compare the hysterical tone of this blog with its right counterpart and look at the reasoned and calm articles of Kiwiblog verses.
   Examples? The photo of the Star Wars stormtroopers and the fascism quote – juvenile in the extreme. The childish as hominum attacks on Key. Etc etc.
   When are the owners of the site going to restrict articles to people who can provide well reasoned adult articles?

   [lprent: They were talking in a cafe? There is nothing illegal or even vaguely immoral about listening to and reporting overheard conversations in public places.

   Similarly none of the posts you mentioned do more than poke fun at the those who don’t think – such as yourself. They are there to promote discussion.

   They are not there to provide the vapid egotism of an individual (many of our authors even use pseudonyms) or to spread the dog whistles for a party. Which is what many of the “well reasoned” articles you like are doing on kiwiblog. Supporters like yourself combined with the self-promotion of the kiwiblog author are why that site is slowly sliding into irrelevance.

   Mostly the ‘owners’ of the site (The Standard Trust) are usually mostly concerned that the behavior of the commentators doesn’t violate our standards and cause the debate to diminish. I’d suggest you read the policy, especially the section on self-maytrdom offenses so you can avoid the moderators attention aimed reducing those concerns. ]
9. Dave Kennedy 9

   13 November 2011 at 11:17 am

   Let’s not go any further down this dead end road!
   http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/11/asset-sales-and-deregulation-fail.html
10. joe90 10

    13 November 2011 at 12:02 pm

    The Atlantic: The Rise of the New Global Elite.

    This widening gap between the rich and non-rich has been evident for years. In a 2005 report to investors, for instance, three analysts at Citigroup advised that “the World is dividing into two blocs—the Plutonomy and the rest”:

    In a plutonomy there is no such animal as “the U.S. consumer” or “the UK consumer”, or indeed the “Russian consumer”. There are rich consumers, few in number, but disproportionate in the gigantic slice of income and consumption they take. There are the rest, the “non-rich”, the multitudinous many, but only accounting for surprisingly small bites of the national pie.

    [lprent: Interesting italics went over the bounds. <i/> fools KSES which should fix it, and the browsers treat it as being an italic start. Something to fix after the election – adding to the fixes page. ]
    • Draco T Bastard 10.1

      13 November 2011 at 1:48 pm

      From this comment on down everything is in italics.
    • ropata 10.2

      13 November 2011 at 2:56 pm

      fixed now?
      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1

        13 November 2011 at 3:40 pm

        yep.
11. Mark Wilson 11

    13 November 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Ah Iprent – could you look up the words ad hominin in the dictionary?

    [lprent: I don’t need to. It is virtually the favorite phrase of every dumb arse troll that comes through here. Like the other stupid morons with an over inflated idea of your own worth that I have talked to on various electronic media over the last 30 years – you do not appear to understand what it actually means or the principles from which the phrase arose.

    It is typically just a phrase that trolls mouth to avoid defending their ideas or statements. I generally track it as being typical of the psuedo-intellectualism of the act/libertainz trolls who most commonly misuse it.

    Read the policy. You addressed the site, which means you got me to respond personally. I personally explained how stupid I thought you were for raising such a stupid idea, explained why, and gave you the link to instructions about how to avoid my attention again. You have just wasted my moderation time again. I do not have infinite time to waste on fools. ]
    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      13 November 2011 at 12:29 pm

      You deserved it.
    • Ianupnorth 11.2

      13 November 2011 at 7:54 pm

      Needs to learn how to use the reply function too!
12. Brett Dale 12

    13 November 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Nothing about Sam Mahon, huh.
    • millsy 12.1

      13 November 2011 at 1:53 pm

      Yeah because Sam Mahon is an evil person because god forbid makes a game that shows John Key in a non flattering light.

      I seem to recall you saying horrible things about Helen Clark through the years.
      • chris73 12.1.1

        13 November 2011 at 2:24 pm

        non-flatterng…dead, all the same really
        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          13 November 2011 at 5:01 pm

          everyone dies so what. Its just a picture. What do you want to do next? Start banning artworks and literature?
          • chris73 12.1.1.1.1

            13 November 2011 at 7:06 pm

            So dead PM: good, cross hairs on (leftie) politicians bad?
            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.1.1

              13 November 2011 at 9:09 pm

              I guess it’s that oh-so-subtle distinction between a satirical artwork and implicit encouragement.
               
              • Colonial Viper …

                13 November 2011 at 9:53 pm

                Sarah Palin found out the hard way, with her “crosshairs” map of America, when Rep. Gabrielle Giffords got shot.
13. Draco T Bastard 13

    13 November 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Vicious assault in central Wellington

    Ok, an unprovoked attack by a bunch of cowards causes severe damage to one young man but what caught my attention was this bit:

    Two stumps still need to be removed. He also needed four stitches in his bottom lip and about $15,000 of surgery to repair his mangled mouth.

    His mother, Teri Thomas, said the family could not [removed double word] afford the bill.

    This sort of thing is covered by ACC and we have free public health care as well. There’s no way that she should be concerned with covering the bill so why is it reported as being a concern?

    Oral and maxillofacial surgeon Gerard Thyne said ACC did not usually pay for implants until the jaw had stopped growing, meaning the teenager faces partial dentures for years unless an exception is made.

    If it takes years then so be it. ACC should still be covering the costs.
14. Fortran 14

    13 November 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Don’t worry Hager will publish the conversation next week.
15. Puddleglum 15

    13 November 2011 at 2:21 pm

    All the comments above seem to be in italics and the WYSIWYG commenting isn’t present (at least for me for the past day or so). Is there a problem?

    [lprent: fixed the italics. The wsiwyg will be from a new site cache I put in to help with eday loads. I will turn it off until I track the problem. ]
    • Puddleglum 15.1

      13 November 2011 at 10:47 pm

      Thanks lprent. It’s all looking good now.
16. Jackal 16

    13 November 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Has anyone linked to this

    A New Zealand artist has painted a picture of Prime Minister John Key dead, slumped up against an alleyway.

    Good composition and detail. I particularly like the Mickey Mouse sticker.
    • Carol 16.1

      13 November 2011 at 3:55 pm

      Saw it. Dislike it. Totally dislike the way Key operates and his values. But, graphically visualising his murder does not do anything to help promote the left wing values that are important to me.
      • coolas 16.1.1

        13 November 2011 at 4:18 pm

        Farrar’s attack on Sam Mahon is unhinged accusing him of hating Key and bleeding on about upsetting Key’s kids. Quite bizarre. And he obviously has memory loss.

        “Is this David Farrar the same person who instigated the Clark/Bainimarama and Peter/Kim Jong il posters. If so, he’s an utter hypocrite.

        What’s the difference between Sam Mahon using shock tactics to make a political statement about ‘the dying of hope’ and the posters comparing Clark and Peters to dictators. Oh yeah, it’s all about the nature of the image. Too shocking. Too controversial.

        Farrar says, ‘Sam Mahon … hates John Key.’ What drivel. Sam Mahon is a far bigger man than that and I doubt he hates anyone. He disagrees stridently with Key the NeoCon politician but how this translates to hatred is far more a reflection on Farrar’s warped perception of emotion.

        Sam Mahon is a highly respected artist and advocate for environmental issues. He counts among his patrons and friends some of the illuminati of NZ arts, politics and commerce, who I’m sure will have a far more liberal interpretation of his latest ‘dead Key’ painting than bleating of philistine David Farrar.”
17. Jackal 17

    13 November 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Murder? Perhaps the artist is implying that the politician metaphorically killed himself… as is usually the case with political careers. I can see why it’s offensive though… but what is most amusing is that some people are jumping up and down like it’s all Labours fault. LOL
18. KerryC 18

    13 November 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Just returned from handing out flyers in West city for Labour – had a guy standing about 20 feet away just watching us and mouthing off at me but I couldn’t hear what he was saying. I went over and asked what was wrong and he called me a RACIST BASTARD claiming that I called a woman an “Asian Bitch”. I was in fact asking her if she was enrolled to vote.

    Being that my family are mixed Maori/Pakeha, my partner is a Cook Islander, I believe we should accept anyone who truly wishes to be a Kiwi. I told him he was an idiot and because he was causing a scene so not to draw undue attention I offered to go outside and sort out any problems he might have.

    He went beserk shouting “You can’t talk to me like that!” and stormed off threatening to call the herald.

    Idiot RWNJ
    • mik e 18.1

      13 November 2011 at 7:18 pm

      Typical bullying mentality of the right KC Keep chin up and do us proud.
      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1

        13 November 2011 at 7:31 pm

        Hang tough dude. I’ve also had a couple of incidents like this over the last few days, while out campaigning for Labour. There really are a few thoroughly hateful right wingers out there. A solid 2% to 3% of the population at a guess.

        The ones who fancy themselves rich and worthier than thou are particularly galling.

        It’s interesting what an evil world these otherwise normal looking people exist in. I personally would not like to live inside their grubby judgemental heads.

        And I don’t hesitate to put them back in their place, I should add. Fuck’m.
19. Tazirev 19

    13 November 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Putting up Green Party billboards in Hamilton yesterday, most
    impressed with the number of toots and thumbs up from motorists
20. The phantom 20

    13 November 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Phil Goff has run a good campaign. On current polling it looks unlikely that his willingness to tackle sacred cows like the age of entitlement to National Super and CGT will succeed and tragic for the country that they are likely to be no go zones for a few more elections as a result. I don’t think sites like this have helped. Goff nearly turned me in to a swinging voter but, if the price for having him lead the country is policies influenced by the regular contributors to this site it is just too high. The persistent ad hominem assaults and pack attacks on anyone who dares to differ are uncomfortably reminiscent of Animal Farm.
    I assume one of the main purposes of this site is to encourage support for Labour. It may well work for those who are committed already but I suspect that it has the opposite effect on most swinging voters.
    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      13 November 2011 at 7:35 pm

      I suspect you know shit, especially if you rate KiwiBlog ahead of The Standard.
      • chris73 20.1.1

        13 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

        To be fair kiwiwblog is a more respected blog
      • The phantom 20.1.2

        13 November 2011 at 8:14 pm

        David Farrar is generally thoughtful and temperate but his contributors often conform to the standards of this blog. Your response presumes something you can neither know nor prove and is typically combative.
        Don’t you ever wonder whether your style swamps the substance in your arguments?
        • Colonial Viper 20.1.2.1

          13 November 2011 at 8:48 pm

          🙂

          Sometimes I don’t feel like web based arguments, or theorising about hypotheticals. When that happens I go out and deliver another hundred or so Labour flyers. So STFU.
          • The phantom 20.1.2.1.1

            13 November 2011 at 9:05 pm

            no wonder Labour are in trouble- you will never change anyone’s mind- Phil Goff might but with friends and allies like you and DTB???
            • Colonial Viper 20.1.2.1.1.1

              13 November 2011 at 9:10 pm

              I’ll rate my effectiveness on the evening of Nov 26. You’re just tripe.
          • KerryC 20.1.2.1.2

            13 November 2011 at 10:43 pm

            I’ll be right with you CV
    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      13 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

      Another concern troll trying the old I’m a swing voter, really but… lack of argument.

      You’re a hard right-winger. How do I know? Because you said so right:-

      Goff nearly turned me in to a swinging voter but…

      there. You’re still going to vote for your leader because of personality (and it’s a fake personality BTW) rather than on policies – exactly as can be expected from Right Wing Authoritarians.
    • Ianupnorth 20.3

      13 November 2011 at 8:56 pm

      Have to agree with CV; all I see on here is, what is commonly known as, common sense. If you cannot see the problem with selling state assets, with using the money from these to fund farmers, failing to create job opportunity, creating an underclass, etc, then you deserve a National government.

      The fact is that people on here actually give a damn about people, not just the rich!
21. Mark Wilson 21

    13 November 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Thanks Phantom

    “The persistent ad hominem assaults and pack attacks on anyone who dares to differ are uncomfortably reminiscent of Animal Farm.”
    • Colonial Viper 21.1

      13 November 2011 at 9:08 pm

      Where the Bankers are the Pigs and John Key is a Former Pig.
    • ropata 21.2

      13 November 2011 at 11:11 pm

      Oh poor sensitive poppet. whereas farrars minions are all so gentle and rational …
      i guess it can be a shock when your mistakes are mercilessly exposed and ridiculed.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Common_misconceptions
22. Rodel 22

    13 November 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Does anyone really think these two nuthings said anything of substance?
    Banks has never said anything sensible in his political life and Key! Well he’s just a PR company’s facade. Sure he gambled with other people’ s money and got lucky to the tune of $50 million.
    Lots of gamblers have done that.Not me but it could have been depending on how the dice rolled.

    No.. Ignore the secret tape and what might have been said.

    With these two nothing personalities it wouldn’t be worth spending any grey matter on. wondering what they might have said…
    They key issue for Epsom voters( pls forgive the’ k’ word) , good people generally except for the Remuerians who couldn’t think outside the elite born to rule square to save themselves ( I’ve dealt with them a lot) is: How does your strategic vote count in Epsom? Will your vote even count at all? Am I the sucker that Key and Banks really think I am? (O and of course..whatisname? O Yeah .somebody called Brash… used to be ..somebody before Nicky Hagar.

    What Key and Banks (omitting Dr Brash) did at the ‘Tea Party party’ ( Shades of Sarah Palin) was irrelevant silliness more suited to the stupidity of US republicans.
    • Mark Wilson 22.1

      13 November 2011 at 9:39 pm

      Hi Rodel, I hope your knowledge of the other things you comment on is better than your knowledge of how Key made his money – as Manager of Merrill Lynch’s Forex London division it was his people, political and intellectual strengths that gave him the salary to invest and make his $50 million (and he is worth way more than that). No one makes their money on the Forex market on the basis they “gambled with other people’s money and got lucky to the tune of $50 million”. Very little of his money was made in the Forex market.
      The reality is that Key’s intellect would exceed anyones on this blog, including mine. The left are always going to struggle while they demean the rights intellect and motives. Key could make far more money doing something else, unlike most politicans on the left, but he is a politician because he believes that he can make a difference for all New Zealanders. When it comes to economics it atkes a great deal of misguided arrogance to suggest that his opinion is not going to be more correct than most.
      • rosy 22.1.1

        13 November 2011 at 10:06 pm

        Key’s ability to think like an accountant has nothing to do with intellect. His ability to think on his feet is more indicative – and he’s good at that. But to my mind he’s not a deep thinker and knows the cost of everything in the short-term and knows the value of nothing. And after years of conditioning in the financial world the idea of long-term process (financial or social) is lacking.
      • Ianupnorth 22.1.2

        13 November 2011 at 10:12 pm

        You really are deluded aren’t you! Do Marrill Lynch not have very sophisticated software that guides their ‘dealers’? Do they not receive lots of ‘inside’ information?.
         
        Key has made more than enough money to live out his life. The question you really should be asking is why is he persisting with ‘trickle down’ when it has clearly failed?
         
        Similarly, if you have a successful, dividend returning monopoly (e.g. power companies, a state airline, etc) why would you sell it? Isn’t it usually good practice to keep the valuable parts of a business and be rid of the bits that are less profitable?
         
        And when you sell those assets why would you even consider investing in a low return investment like irrigating dairy farms?
         
        To answer your last question – he has already made a very big difference for three groups of kiwi’s
        The first are the 100K who have voted with their feet and headed to Oz
         
        The second are the very rich, who are now even more rich
         
        The third, and least fortunate, are those whose standard of living is declining – and that is far bigger than both the above.
      • Colonial Viper 22.1.3

        13 November 2011 at 10:44 pm

        The reality is that Key’s intellect would exceed anyones on this blog, including mine.

        ROFLMAO. Dude, if John Key was a brilliant guy on the average wage, you’d never look at him twice.

        Its not the intellect you respect, its the net worth. Why don’t you be honest about that at least.

        And here’s a word to the wise: John Key’s remuneration from his time as PM is not going to come from his PM’s salary – you are right that is just pocket money to him.

        But giving his banker mates a $100M plus commission on selling our state assets? My friend, Key doesn’t do any of this without expectation of big paybacks down the track.

        And yeah, Key is in his job for New Zealanders. The top 1% of them.
      • Puddleglum 22.1.4

        13 November 2011 at 11:06 pm

        “he is a politician because he believes that he can make a difference for all New Zealanders.”

        I don’t think there’s much evidence for this claim. (Apart from his own claims, of course, but that is hardly ‘evidence’).

        He set himself the aim of being PM at a very young age (the same time he set himself the aim of making a lot of money).

        There is little to suggest that he has done much else in his life to “make a difference” for others so I fail to see why we should conclude that he suddenly changed tack a few years ago and decided to live his life “for all New Zealanders”. 

        There’s not a lot of altruism expressed in John Key’s life (or at least that part of it that is on the public record). There is, however, considerable evidence of his self-focus and of an extraordinary resolve in the pursuit of his own goals.
      • McFlock 22.1.5

        13 November 2011 at 11:12 pm

        “The reality is that Key’s intellect would exceed anyones on this blog, including mine.”
        lol
          
        
        And comrade stalin worked all through the night and invented the soviet bomb all by himself. But your blind faith is touching.
        
      • ropata 22.1.6

        13 November 2011 at 11:28 pm

        A letter to the author of the “unauthorised” hagiography of Key (biography would be inaccurate)
      • Draco T Bastard 22.1.7

        13 November 2011 at 11:53 pm

        The reality is that Key’s intellect would exceed anyones on this blog, including mine.

        Well, I’d agree to the point that his intellect would surpass yours. You do seem to be a bit of a dimwit after all. Everybody else’s? Probably not. From what I’ve seen he’s decidedly average.

        Key could make far more money doing something else, unlike most politicans on the left, but he is a politician because he believes that he can make a difference for all New Zealanders.

        He’s not doing it for NZers but for the rich, and psychopathic, few of which he happens to be.
      • Rodel 22.1.8

        14 November 2011 at 8:33 pm

        Key is a politician because he wants to be called ‘Sir’ end of story.
23. Campbell Larsen 23

    13 November 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Classic, some old hack on TVNZ7 brief asserting that countries usually change voting systems when they are dissatisfied with the present govt (true) but neglecting to mention that NZ is possibly the first to adopt a more representative system -MMP and then ask people if they would like to revert to a less representative system. Tone of article suggests that those dissatisfied with present govt should vote against MMP which of course could not be further from the truth.

    Keep MMP. Its better for you and it’s better for me.
24. Draco T Bastard 24

    13 November 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Veterans Day, 2030

    Thomas Fingar, “the U.S. intelligence community’s top analyst,” sees it happening by the mid-2020s:

    By 2025, droughts, food shortages and scarcity of fresh water will plague large swaths of the globe, from northern China to the Horn of Africa.

    For poorer countries, climate change “could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back,” Fingar said, while the United States will face “Dust Bowl” conditions in the parched Southwest“¦.

    He said U.S. intelligence agencies accepted the consensual scientific view of global warming, including the conclusion that it is too late to avert significant disruption over the next two decades. The conclusions are in line with an intelligence assessment produced this summer that characterized global warming as a serious security threat for the coming decades.

    Floods and droughts will trigger mass migrations and political upheaval in many parts of the developing world.

    And yet, despite all these warnings, our politicians keep planning and encouraging Business as Usual.

    And this is a really scary map. -4 is extreme drought and covers the top half of the South Island.

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