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Open Mike 13/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 13th, 2016 - 54 comments
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[In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election]

54 comments on “Open Mike 13/11/2016”

  1. greywarshark 1

    Look out for these lectures on now.
    She [Dr Caldicott] will speak on “An End to Armed Conflict: New Zealand’s Unique Challenge” in Wellington tomorrow evening (Sunday 14 November, at 7:00pm) and in Auckland next week (Tuesday 16 November, at 7:30pm).

    Dr Caldicott, a retired paediatrician, now practises “global preventative medicine.” She has devoted the last forty-five years to an international campaign to educate the public about the medical hazards of the nuclear age and the necessary changes in human behaviour to stop environmental destruction.

    Extracted from CVs post today on this woman, Nobel Prize winner and one of the small flames, the flickering points of light, from a poem recently posted.

    Defenseless under the night
    Our world in stupor lies;
    Yet, dotted everywhere,
    Ironic points of light
    Flash out wherever the Just
    Exchange their messages:
    May I, composed like them
    Of Eros and of dust,
    Beleaguered by the same
    Negation and despair,
    Show an affirming flame.

    The whole poem, deeply excoriating, on this link.
    http://www.poemdujour.com/Sept1.1939.html

    • Manuka AOR 1.1

      Thanks Grey. I used to follow her writings years ago – I am so glad she is still going, still teaching. “Never give up.” (I’m close to giving into despair at times. She inspires me.) In a halfway saner world she would be chief advisor to world governments. (How to fight despair?)

  2. Penny Bright 2

    This is a SERIOUS question.

    I look forward to a reply.

    Chloe Swarbrick supports privatisation via Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs).

    Has the Green Party now adopted Chloe Swarbrick’s ‘pragmatic’ politics and do the Green Party now support privatisation via PPPs?

    In my view – the voting public need to know ASAP.

    In my considered opinion, there is nothing ‘fresh-faced’ about stale old Neo-liberal support for privatisation via PPPs.

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption Public Watchdog

  3. chris73 3

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-media-didnt-want-to-believe-trump-could-win-so-they-looked-the-other-way/2016/11/09/d2ea1436-a623-11e6-8042-f4d111c862d1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-bignews6_sullivan-120am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

    “The media is always taking Trump literally. It never takes him seriously, but it always takes him literally,” Thiel said. Journalists wanted to know exactly how he would deport that many undocumented immigrants, or exactly how Trump would rid the world of the Islamic State. We wanted details.”

    But a lot of voters think the opposite way: They take Trump seriously but not literally.

    They realize, Thiel said, that Trump doesn’t really plan to build a wall. “What they hear is, ‘We’re going to have a saner, more sensible immigration policy.’ ”

    • Ad 3.1

      I’ve heard that crap recently.
      LIke, “Oh he didn’t mean a real wall, he meant a metaphorical wall.”

      It’s policy by Marcel Marceau.

  4. Cinny 4

    Just watching Corin on Q+A interview Grosser and was wondering does Grosser have a problem with the drink?

  5. The Chairman 5

    Now that the dust has settled a little over Labour’s dispute with the media, it’s time to have a constructive discussion in regards to Labour’s youth employment scheme.

    While better than nothing, from the discussions I’ve had, people were expecting far more. It’s a short-term scheme providing the very basic of skills.

    Critiquing Labour’s policy would be unjust if one didn’t also provide an alternative. So I have.

    With that kind of ongoing expenditure ($60m annually going off Labour’s figures amounts to $600m over 10 years) the Government could look at creating a small number of new Government owned enterprises that would not only create far more secure long-term work for adults and youths, but will also provide opportunities for people to up-skill and move up within the growing new ventures.

    If successful, the new ventures would become self-funded with overheads being covered by returns and profits ultimately going towards broadening government revenue streams.

    For example, New Zealand has a room shortage. To satisfy demand, another 30 hotels need to be built in Auckland alone.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/business/expect-high-hotel-costs-heading-into-aucklands-peak-season-2016111118

    This provides a number of employment and skill learning opportunities. From construction of the eco friendly hotels to the running and servicing of them.

    I’m not suggesting the Government totally fills this market void, but playing a part could turn out to be very beneficial in a wide ranging way.

    Moreover, while we are waiting for the market to act, we don’t want this room shortage to result in excessive overnight hotel rates becoming the norm, resulting in scaring large numbers of tourist away or robbing the rest of the economy of their share of the tourist spend.

    Thus, it’s another reason the Government should partake.

    This is the kind of bigger vision, wide benefiting thinking people were expecting from Labour. Unfortunately, they failed to deliver.

    • Gabby 5.1

      Or, the gummnt could build cheap houses, freeing up the private sector to build hotels, which they’d much rather do.

      • The Chairman 5.1.1

        Labour has Kiwibuild to address the housing shortage.

        Moreover, the room shortage highlights the private sector is also lacking in this area.

        • Ad 5.1.1.1

          Labour already has pans for “government owned enterprises”, called Urban Development Agencies. Labour invented the most successful one in many decades called the Hobsonville Land Co. They will be rolling them out all over the place.

          The warning however is it’s always a lovely idea for the government to just invent and run a business, until they fail, at which point you see your own taxpayer money going down the toilet.

          Solid Energy.

          • The Chairman 5.1.1.1.1

            What I’m suggesting goes beyond but builds upon that in a way (Hobsonville Land Co.)

            Of course there is a risk factor, but risk can be minimized and new ventures should be structured that way.

            Moreover, there is more than a potential fiscal return to be made.

            And in this case, seeing as money will be spent regardless (on Labour’s insufficient youth employment scheme) there is far more to gain than lose.

            While Solid Energy ultimately failed, it generated millions of dollars in export revenue and employed thousands of workers over the years.

            • save nz 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Personally I’d like to see us diversify AWAY from our obsession with real estate and construction. With a very volatile global economy and a lot of pain to come next year globally not sure we are even going to need all these rooms….

              How people setting up their own businesses while on unemployment benefit – the government used to do it for 6-12 months. I think unemployed people would like some sort of real help for people not in construction or retail…

  6. ianmac 6

    The Police have to pay the interim costs to Nicky Hager of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    Where does that money come from? The Commissioner’s salary? The Police budget? Government slush fund? Taxpayers?

    • RedBaronCV 6.1

      Us taxpayers of course. But if I had my way whoever thought this was a good idea at the highest level should cop some of the pain too

      • james 6.1.1

        They are tax payers too – and being at the top of the police – prob pay more tax than most.

  7. adam 7

    Jimmy Dore – Nails it again.

    • Manuka AOR 7.1

      The water that would be polluted is not only the Missouri River, it is a lake on their reservation, which is sacred to them as well as being their main supply, iirrc.

      “If you put that in a movie, they would say, ‘No, that’s a little heavy handed, over the top’. But that’s real…”

      “They’re sending cops from all different states..”
      “We live in a police state. ” and more, with relevance to everyone.

  8. greywarshark 8

    I am looking at Radionz and see piece on on-line learning and Education Ministry advising government against it. Glad I am wrong – I thought that the EM was just a bunch of po-faced people from another planet.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/317961/online-schools-make-for-%27wild-west%27-education-system
    Documents obtained by the Post Primary Teachers Association show the Education Ministry told the government this year that the schools could lead to a significant increase in correspondence enrolments.
    It said the existing distance education school, Te Kura (the Correspondence School), could lose enrolments and perhaps suffer a mass exodus of students.

    It said the best results appeared to come from blended learning, where online and face-to-face teaching was mixed.

    and
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/314684/online-school-concerns-show-research-needed-labour
    and
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311687/children-could-enrol-in-online-only-schools-govt

  9. Morrissey 9

    The Guardian provokes Larry “Lackwit” Williams into
    a paroxysm of spittle-flecked denunciation and rage.

    Larry Williams Drive, NewstalkZB, Friday 11 November 2016, 4:20 p.m.

    We’ve already had a look at the atmosphere of barely restrained jubilation at NewstalkZB on the afternoon that neo-fascism looked more and more certain to gain the levers of power in the United States. [1]

    A couple of days later, I stumbled on this pig’s breakfast of a station again, this time just as host Larry “Lackwit” Williams brought all of his considerable learning and wit to bear on a subject that obviously exercised his agile and high class mind to a great degree—liberals that don’t appreciate the Dear Leader in Washington….

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: I have here a LETTER, a LETTER from the PUBLISHER of The Guardian written to subscribers, dealing with the “problem” of a Donald Trump presidency. ….[long pause for effect, like he does when reading out the names of Māori defendants in criminal cases]…. “Hello”, it begins….

    Williams proceeds to read out the letter, in a sarcastic sing-song voice, every now and again interjecting an angry critique in his normal baritone growl….

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Ha! You’d have to be an IDIOT! …. See, they’ve lost TOUCH with the ordinary person! ….. This is why nobody watches, or READS, this paper! ….Aaaarrgghhh!…. They should be carted away and certified!…. [barely articulate spluttering and snarling continues…]

    A short time later the intellectual tone continues on the same exalted plane, when the All Blacks’ “mental skills coach” describes Armistice Day, memorably, as a “momentous moment in history” [2]….

    Point to Ponder: NewstalkZB slogans have included: “Fair and Balanced”, “You’re Up To Date”, and perhaps the most hilarious of all, “Tune Your Mind”.

    [1] https://thestandard.org.nz/us-election-day-discussion-post-91116/#comment-1257997

    [2] https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12112016/#comment-1259778

  10. Morrissey 10

    THE ASSASSINATION COMPLEX
    by Jeremy Scahill, The Intercept, Oct. 10, 2015
    The Drone Papers (Article No. 1 of 8)

    From his first days as commander in chief, the drone has been President Barack Obama’s weapon of choice, used by the military and the CIA to hunt down and kill the people his administration has deemed — through secretive processes, without indictment or trial — worthy of execution. There has been intense focus on the technology of remote killing, but that often serves as a surrogate for what should be a broader examination of the state’s power over life and death.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/

    DRONES ARE A TOOL, not a policy. The policy is assassination. While every president since Gerald Ford has upheld an executive order banning assassinations by U.S. personnel, Congress has avoided legislating the issue or even defining the word “assassination.” This has allowed proponents of the drone wars to rebrand assassinations with more palatable characterizations, such as the term du jour, “targeted killings.”

    When the Obama administration has discussed drone strikes publicly, it has offered assurances that such operations are a more precise alternative to boots on the ground and are authorized only when an “imminent” threat is present and there is “near certainty” that the intended target will be eliminated. Those terms, however, appear to have been bluntly redefined to bear almost no resemblance to their commonly understood meanings.

    The first drone strike outside of a declared war zone was conducted more than 12 years ago, yet it was not until May 2013 that the White House released a set of standards and procedures for conducting such strikes. Those guidelines offered little specificity, asserting that the U.S. would only conduct a lethal strike outside of an “area of active hostilities” if a target represents a “continuing, imminent threat to U.S. persons,” without providing any sense of the internal process used to determine whether a suspect should be killed without being indicted or tried. The implicit message on drone strikes from the Obama administration has been one of trust, but don’t verify.

    The Intercept has obtained a cache of secret slides that provides a window into the inner workings of the U.S. military’s kill/capture operations at a key time in the evolution of the drone wars — between 2011 and 2013. The documents, which also outline the internal views of special operations forces …..

    Read more….
    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/

  11. Chuck 11

    “The revolving door continues for Labour with a new appointment being made at the same time another staffer quits.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/86408099/labour-takes-on-former-mayors-press-secretary-at-same-time-another-staffer-quits-to-join-the-new-mayor

    Labour communications team is still missing 3 staff, and according to Stuff, Labour might not even fill all the vacant positions.

    Why would Labour not go into an election year with a fully staffed coms team? Since the Labour supporters on this site are convinced the media is against them, why is Labour comfortable with being understaffed?

  12. Pasupial 12

    This was unexpected:

    The Australian government has announced a landmark “one-off” resettlement deal to the United States for some refugees held at Australia’s remote offshore detention facilities on Nauru and Manus Island… would prioritise families, women and children for settlement with “the prospect” that others in offshore detention would be resettled in the US… Turnbull refused to say how many refugees the deal would apply to…

    Among those on Manus and Nauru are people from Iran, Syria, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Iraq, as well as some who are stateless.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/nov/13/refugees-held-in-australian-offshore-detention-to-be-resettled-in-us

    I can’t help but wonder how this is going to play with the No Muslims crowd in the USA.

  13. Draco T Bastard 13

    Emptying seas, mounting tensions in fish-hungry Asia

    Asia’s seafood addiction is depleting the oceans and stirring diplomatic tensions. The region consumes 70% of the world’s fish, a share poised to rise as the middle class expands. Fishing operators are searching for bigger hauls, while governments are increasingly protective of marine resources. The seas are churning with competition and disputes.

    Cause: Over population and the profit drive.

    Our present financial system brings about the worst possible result for our society and the Earth rather than the best as prophesied by the economists and politicians.

  14. Takere 14

    Ngati Paoa Operation Whakama. Mana Motuhake Denied. – Soiux Standing Rock Dakota.

    “Operation NEPTUNE” NZ Navy’s 75th year celebration. Nov 2016

    A local iwi in Tamaki Makaurau/Auckland NZ, Ngati Paoa is currently rehearsing their part on the waters of Tamaki Makaurau, Okahu Bay for their involvement in the up and coming NZ Navy’s 75th year celebration.

    A Self-proclaimed, leader, Hau Rawiri decided himself to take part in the event “Operation Neptune” and welcome into the Hauraki Gulf, Waitemata Harbour, the USS Sampson & the Chilean Ship the Esmeralda. The latter ship was used by Augusto Pinochet in his reign of terror he imposed upon the people of Chile in the 1970’s assisted by the US. These are two of more than 20 vessels.
    Both of these ships of death and destruction are not worthy of any kind of celebration or warrant the honour to be welcomed by the waka Kotuiti Tuarua of Ngati Paoa.

    The people of Ngati Paoa were not involved in the decision making in anyway.

    This has been disturbing news for many of the elders of Ngati Paoa as the history for Ngati Paoa & the NZ Navy in the firth of Thames is one of death and destruction.

    At the turn of the 19th century the British Navy had relentlessly bombed villages & Paa along the seabird coast, Pukorokoro/Miranda (not far from Kaiaua-100kms south east from Auckland Central) and killed many of our ancestors.

    “Rangipo pa invasion.”
    Which is what most of their tupuna did in 1863 when 850 British Bluejackets landed on the western Firth of Thames, after Governor Grey ordered the invasion of the Waikato. They came in warships, shelled pa’s and villages and swept ashore. Then the Crown took the land and gave some to the soldiers. The Ngati Whanaunga village of Pukorokoro was renamed Miranda after one of the warships.”
    Geoff Cumming Herald Article, 2012.

    No apology from the Crown has been made or offered to the people of Ngati Paoa to this day.

    Mana Motuhake!
    The native American Sioux Indian in Standing Rock Dakota in the US are been persecuted and denied “Mana Motuhake” and the right to step foot on their own whenua/land right now!
    Does that sound familiar? It should! For many Maaori it does. For the people of Ngati Paoa who are in the Settlement process currently. This predicament the people have been placed in will be seen throughout the world as the Indigenous Maaori tribe who did not support another indigenous culture fighting for the same thing that has taken the Maaori people more than 175 years!
    We would have liked to of had the choice to support the Sioux, instead the “choice” was taken from us by the Crown and the “leader”.

    So sadly, the people of Ngati Paoa have to act as individuals, apart from our iwi as Ngati Paoa to stand in solidarity with the Indigenous Sioux Indian people and supporters against the XL Oil Pipeline and the mighty Militarised Police & National Guard of the US. “Whakama!” – to be ashamed, embarrassed.
    It has been many months of protesting and legal battles in this period for them all and it looks like it is becoming a war of attrition? Who knows what the new President Elect will do?

    We should all be with the people at “Standing Rock” & the Sioux, Native American Indian & protestors, not celebrating the US and NZ Navy’s War Machines especially with the current Settlement negotiations that Ngati Paoa and the Crown are in currently.
    Many people of Ngati Paoa are opposed to the decision made by Hau Rawiri to lead the War Convoy by escorting the NZ & US, Chilean Navy’s weapons of mass destruction & death into Tamaki Makaurau, Waitemata Harbour in the waka Kotuiti Tuarua.
    It’s a sad time for our Tupuna.

    Programme.

    The Royal New Zealand Navy – Te Taua Moana o Aotearoa, will celebrate its 75th Anniversary.

    “Operation NEPTUNE” encompasses a range of events through 2016 with the culmination of the celebrations with an International Naval Review to be held on Thursday 17th Nov & Sat 19th Nov, when vessels from international navies visit Auckland for 5 days.

    Twenty international and New Zealand navy ships will take part in the event, in which Te Kotuiti Tuarua has not only been invited to lead the welcome of the vessels into Auckland Harbour, but to also take part in the review itself.
    The new Govenor-General, Dame Patsy Reddy, will conduct the review.

    The Full Programme here on Ngati Paoa IWI Trusts Facebook page.

    http://www.ngatipaoaiwi.co.nz/general-p257nui

    • Manuka AOR 14.1

      We should all be with the people at “Standing Rock” & the Sioux, Native American Indian & protestors, not celebrating the US and NZ Navy’s War Machines

      Totally agree.

  15. JC 16

    This is Crazy!

    “We don’t need the power so why ruin this amazing place”

    http://wildriver.nz/

  16. weka 17

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all discussion, comments, link postings etc about the US election under one of the posts about the Election – weka]

  17. Lanthanide 18

    Well I wanted to get up early this morning, but 12:02am isn’t quite what I was thinking.

    Big rolling quake here, no damage at my place in CHCH, TC1 land, out west. Went on for at least 40 seconds, possibly a minute plus.

    http://www.geonet.org.nz/quakes/region/newzealand/2016p858000

    • marty mars 18.1

      Very long and scarey here in golden bay at the top of the south. Hope everyone is okay.

    • Lanthanide 18.2

      According to geonet right now, there have been multiple magnitude 5+ aftershocks in Seddon and near Wellington. So it seems like a fairly large distribution, from the initial focal point.

      • Lanthanide 18.2.1

        I think these are phantom quakes, thrown up as a result of Geonet’s new ‘Rapid’ technology.

        Quake crowe, which get their data from geonet, are only showing 3 quakes – 2 of which I have felt. If there were really these half dozen quakes that are showing on Geonet, I would have felt more of them.

        • marty mars 18.2.1.1

          Had at least 6 strong -rattling -aftrshocks in the bay

        • weka 18.2.1.2

          What do you mean by phantom quake?

          I thought the quake went on for a long time, can’t see the time length on geonet.

          • weka 18.2.1.2.1

            Listening to RNZ, sounds like it was felt very strongly in Wellington and Nelson, and power outages in many places.

          • Lanthanide 18.2.1.2.2

            Geonet is reporting quakes all over the country, as often as a few minutes apart. If there were really that many quakes ocurring around Kaikoura / Seddon as it is showing, I would have felt them.

            Also, when a quake does actually happen in the south island, a few minutes later it often shows a separate quake in the north island, and it’s shown about 6 of them in the north island, some just to the west of Auckland, which is just not credible.

            So, phantom quakes, created by the instruments getting confused. This is purely my personal opinion.

            Edit: GNS duty seismologist on RNZ has said that there are many ghost quakes being reported.

  18. Draco T Bastard 19

    Largish earthquake in Canterbury. Hope peeps there are Ok.
    I felt it here in Auckland.

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    2 weeks ago
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    2 weeks ago

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  • Speech by the Minister of Defence to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs
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