Open mike 14/03/2025

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 14th, 2025 - 53 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

53 comments on “Open mike 14/03/2025 ”

  1. Tony Veitch 1
    14 March 2025 at 6:16 am

    The school lunches debacle is just the, to quote Chris Hopkins, ‘omni-shambles’ it always threatened to be, in the hands of a minister who thinks parents should provide food for their kids, and not the state (and so they should, if ALL parents were paid the living wage [but that’s another albatross round the necks of the CoC]) and a PM who says ‘just make a marmite sandwich!’

    An RNZ article that emphasises, once again, that Neoliberals know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing!

    It asks the question: “Is school lunch provision a service or an investment?”

    If a service, then it’s just box-ticking.

    But as an investment in our tamariki, which is what Labour saw it as, it has far greater impact.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thedetail/544735/the-cost-of-a-meal-that-sticks-in-the-throat

    Reply
  2. Sanctuary 2
    14 March 2025 at 8:47 am

    Canadian billionaire and far right crank Jim Grenon's takeover of NZME looks a done deal if the obsequious arse kissing of Shayne Currie to the guy in this mornings Herald so-called "media insider" section is any guide. Its $$$ so no point linking though if you've freeloaded an account reading it is a good for a grim laugh at how far some people are willing to go to abase themselves by throwing others under the bus to try and save their own jobs.

    Reply
    • Michael Scott 2.1
      14 March 2025 at 9:25 am

      Editorial boards of newspapers almost always reflect the worldview of their owners.

      Left wing newspapers attract journalists with similar views as do right leaning newspapers.

      eg RNZ journalist Eloise Gibson published a story originally headlined “Hamilton’s run of hot days shatters previous record”,

      It turned out to be untrue. I don't think she was trying to fool anyone. She simply saw some scientific evidence of 10 consecutive hot days and automatically viewed it it as evidence of a warming climate.

      [Find a new hobby for the next 4 months.

      I refer to your previous Mod note and 2-month ban (https://thestandard.org.nz/unions-are-still-relevant/#comment-2010617) and the fact that you’re a self-confessed Climate Change denier (https://thestandard.org.nz/climate-change/#comment-2028087).

      Here, you make two unsupported assertions followed by a slur to derail and divert with some success because you received assistance from another commenter with an obviously similar bias – Incognito]

      Reply
      • Tony Veitch 2.1.1
        14 March 2025 at 9:53 am

        It turned out to be untrue.

        There is nothing in the article that indicates what the reporter said is untrue – so, cite your evidence, or is this just another climate change denier opinion?

        Reply
      • AB 2.1.2
        14 March 2025 at 9:59 am

        Editorial boards of newspapers almost always reflect the worldview of their owners.

        Let's assume this is true. And let's assume that we want a balanced media environment where all views are represented more or less in proportion to how common those views are in the community.

        If the first assumption is true, then the second assumption requires that the economic barriers to entry into media ownership do not work in favour of any one set of views. But we know that media ownership is a possibility only for the very wealthy, who overwhelmingly have right-wing views and sometimes extremist views.

        So your (seemingly) tacit assertion that everything is all fine and dandy and the media market is just another market that blithely goes on doing what it does and should be of no more concern to us than the market for sneakers – is nonsense.

        Reply
        • gsays 2.1.2.1
          14 March 2025 at 10:49 am

          "…is just another market that blithely goes on doing what it does and should be of no more concern to us…"

          We really y should have concern about all markets. This is where corporations congregate and they have us in their clutches.

          It pays to remember that corporations have 'personhood' and are therefore sociopathic.

          "Both sociopaths and corporations exist for the sole purpose of self-centered goals — sociopaths want a variety of things (money, power, sex, etc.) while corporations are solely focused upon making money."

          https://medium.com/@marc.lefton/a-gentle-reminder-that-corporations-are-sociopaths-e618b80a1ffc

          Reply
      • Belladonna 2.1.3
        14 March 2025 at 9:59 am

        For those interested, here's the investigation of the truth of the claims made, and the unsuccessful attempts to get RNZ to revise their article.

        https://centrist.nz/state-broadcaster-in-climate-reporting-scandal-hides-evidence-of-massive-heatwave-that-dwarfs-recent-hottest-years/

        While there may be some additional motivation behind the investigation – there seems no doubt that it was poor quality journalism.

        Reply
        • Macro 2.1.3.1
          14 March 2025 at 10:31 am

          Yeah – another diatribe by climate denier Ian Wishart who bases his "research" on anecdotal reports. Like anyone can take what that person says on climate change.

          Reply
          • Belladonna 2.1.3.1.1
            14 March 2025 at 1:32 pm

            Except that he didn't take 'anecdata' he used the officially recorded temperatures.

            If climate scientists want to convince the rest of us (and why else would they be engaging in popular journalism) – then they need to be doing 'good' science. This was a sloppy piece of populist science commentary, combined with sloppy populist journalism.

            And it matters because, every time this happens, 'ordinary' people become less likely to be convinced that there is a real problem.

            Do better, RNZ.

            Reply
            • Ed1 2.1.3.1.1.1
              14 March 2025 at 2:53 pm

              It is fairly common for comparisons on a lot of issues to only look back 10, 20 or 30 years, and in rare cases 50 years. Actually finding out earlier history can be difficult, but having seen the article from the Centrist, I searched for comment on the 1935 experience. As part of that I found a more recent commentary from 2018 – see:

              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/it-hasnt-been-this-hot-since-1935-whats-changed/BS5Y4C5BNCFBQEE3QWE6YV2BYY/

              Reply
            • Macro 2.1.3.1.1.2
              14 March 2025 at 3:00 pm

              🙄

              That data he quotes is actually NOT the official data. When temperatures take at one site are ceased and temperatures taken at other sites begin the official records need to be aligned. That was the subject of Jim Salinger's PhD Thesis which is the basis of the NZ Long Term Temperature Record.

              eg when a temperature station is moved from Thorndon to Kelburn there needs to be an adjustment to account for the around 0.8 degree C difference. Or when the Temperature station in Hamilton is moved from the Hospital to a site less influenced by Urban Heat Island Effect Ruakura.

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                14 March 2025 at 3:29 pm

                However the difference in temperature – when this kind of change has been made – has been calculated – and it's less than 1 degree (often substantially less than 1 degree) – the temperature spike from the 30s averaged at least 3 degrees higher.

                The climate scientist involved here made no attempt to 'realign the temperatures' – he just ignored the data. Sloppy science.
                The journalist did no basic fact checking (a simple Google search would have found the 2018 Herald article referencing the 1930s temperature spike across the whole of the country – to prompt her to query the scientist's data. Sloppy journalism.

                Reply
                • Macro …
                  16 March 2025 at 4:30 pm

                  The temperature spike across the whole country occurred in 1938 not 1935 – which was a comparatively cool year in NZ.

                  See frame https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538479/nz-s-10th-warmest-year-on-record-what-we-can-learn-from-2024-climate-data

                  Furthermore, I reiterate Wishart uses numbers NOT from the official National Climate Database but from The Historic Weather events website. These are essentially anecdotal.

                  It is not an official type of meteorological record. It has gaps because it contains information gathered from newspaper articles, journals, books and reports that periodically come to light. Gathering these sources and validating them takes significant time and is an ongoing process.

                  https://niwa.co.nz/news/niwas-historic-weather-events-website

                  Reply
                  • Belladonna …
                    17 March 2025 at 9:32 am

                    Where do you get your information that Wishart uses 'unofficial' numbers?

                    https://centrist.nz/state-broadcaster-in-climate-reporting-scandal-hides-evidence-of-massive-heatwave-that-dwarfs-recent-hottest-years/

                    The point being that the 1935 Hamilton data was professionally taken on professional equipment at the same location it had been faithfully recording Hamilton’s weather every day since 1917.

                    Yes, the official Hamilton recording site shifted at a later date – are you proposing that every time a recording site shifts all previous records should be discarded?

                    There are established data reconciliation pathways – to compare temperature data across different sites – all of which were ignored.

                    And, NIWA itself is using this 'old' Hamilton data for historical comparison purposes.

                    https://niwa.co.nz/news/heatwave-numbers

                    Finally, 1935 was indeed a super hot year in Hamilton – regardless of what the rest of the country may have been experiencing.

                    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19350115.2.132?end_date=31-12-1935&items_per_page=10&page=2&query=%22heat+wave%22+hamilton&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1930

                    Reply
                    • Macro …
                      17 March 2025 at 10:04 am

                      From your niwa link above:

                      Two main centres broke their maximum temperature records on 29th January. Hamilton hit 32.9°C, beating the old mark of 32.6°C set in March 2013 (data since 1940).

                      My niwa link above is a direct response to Wishart’s misuse of historical data

                  • Belladonna …
                    17 March 2025 at 11:01 am

                    Yes. NIWA are using this historical data – without (apparently) any concern over it's origin/provenance. Why shouldn't Wishart?

                    You still haven't provided any evidence that Wishart's data in this investigation comes from a different (and less reliable) source than that used by NIWA. Or that Wishart is engaging in "misuse of historical data" in this article.

                    What it appears to come down to, is that you dislike and distrust Wishart, and therefore assume that everything he releases must be wrong.

                    Reply
                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      17 March 2025 at 1:15 pm

                      What it appears to come down to, is that you dislike and distrust Wishart, and therefore assume that everything he releases must be wrong.

                      I can't speak for Macro, but I know Wishart opposes the expert consensus on climate change – indeed, he believes it to be a con.

                      I believe global warming is a serious medium-term threat to the health and wellbeing of many species supported by spaceship Earth.

                      If Wishart was motivated by a desire to maintain journalistic standards, then I could get behind that, but in this instance his motivation appears to be a peculiar abiding need to deny the reality of anthropogenic global warming, and I can't get behind climate change denial, whether it emanates from Wishart, or James "Jim" Grenon – who is, coincidentally(?), 'associated' with 'The Centrist'.

                      https://centrist.nz/?s=climate

                      https://centrist.nz/?s=warming

                      Hmm, just look at all those ‘centrist’ articles – no bias there /sarc

                      ‘A wake for those staying’: Fears for NZ journalism as billionaire buys up [17 March 2025]
                      Until recently, Grenon had not been widely viewed as an investor with a driving passion for the fourth estate. According to the website of his company Tom Capital Management, his business interests are oil and gas, financial services, manufacturing and real estate.

                      Once again I thank you, Belladonna, for introducing the link to Wishart’s article in this thread @2.1.3.

                      Hmm, a billionaire with business interests in fossil fuels.

                      I am not saying Doug is paid by Exxon, but he understands that “doubt is our product”.

                    • Macro …
                      17 March 2025 at 5:16 pm

                      What Drowsy says.

                      But just some background from my perspective.

                      I first became aware of humanities dramatic influence on climate in the late 60's early 70's as a maths and physics teacher where the role of GHG's was beginning to be introduced to junior science, although the science had been around for around 100 years.

                      In the late 70's whilst serving on the Naval Staff in Def HQ I was living in Silverstream and travelled each day on the unit to Wellington. My travelling companion was Jim Sallinger who at that time was completing his seminal work, his PhD on NZ's long term temperature record. We discussed AGW pretty much every day. (Jim's son and my daughter played Mary and Joseph in the classes Xmas play 🙂 )

                      I have followed the science, the constant "scepticism", and the politics behind AGW ever since. What we have been discussing here has been a subject of constant dispute by the so-called sceptics against NIWA and has even been litigated. The facts are clear. The science not the "Oh it was a hot year in (your name the year 40+ years ago) crowd – so no global warming!" indisputable.

                      People such as Wishart with their constant snipping simply get in the way of people taking the matter seriously and doing something about the continual incease in GHG emissions.

                  • Anne …
                    17 March 2025 at 9:54 pm

                    Well said Macro at 5:16pm.

                    Jim Salinger, Jim Renwiick et al are not just your everyday meteorologists/climatologists. They are internationally respected as amongst the finest. Indeed NZ weather scientists generally are regarded as among the best in the world. The reason for this is our geographical location surrounded by oceans which ensures we are subject to every type of weather system originating in the deep southern oceans and of course the tropics, so they get a lot of experience. I know you are aware but it would be nice if others were prepared to accept they know a damn sight more than the rest of us.

                    Wishart disappeared down a rabbit hole decades ago and I have no doubt he is still there. He wrote a book about Helen Clark which was so wildly inaccurate it was ignored by all respected reviewers here and overseas.

                    Reply
            • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.3.1.1.3
              14 March 2025 at 3:01 pm

              Do better, RNZ.

              But the Rowland-Molina hypothesis was strongly disputed by representatives of the aerosol and halocarbon industries. The chair of the board of DuPont was quoted as saying that ozone depletion theory is “a science fiction tale…a load of rubbish…utter nonsense“.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol

              https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-ghg-emissions?tab=chart&country=OWID_WRL~NZL

              Over the last 75 years, annual global per capita greenhouse emissions have been quite stable – between 6.7 and 7.7 tonnes per person. Over the same period, NZ's annual per capita greenhouse emissions have fallen from 38 to 15 tonnes per person. But it's not all good news – over that same period the global human population has more than tripled to over eight billion, and although NZ hasn't quite managed that growth rate, we've still done 'alright'.

              Hamilton has become a test case for the theory that temperatures have become more extreme – a core foundation of global warming belief.
              – Wishart [from the link to ‘Centrist’ in B's comment @2.1.3]

              Wishart believes the expert consensus on climate change is a con, but I'm not convinced. Do better, Wishart and The Centrist.

              In 2000, Wishart began hosting talk radio shifts on the Radio Pacific network, eventually becoming the regular evening host in the 7-10 slot. On one occasion he broadcast the phone numbers of Green Party MPs and urged his listeners to make protest calls, jamming the party's phone lines. Around this time, Wishart became a born-again Christian.
              …
              Air Con (2009) – The book argues that man-made climate change is not significant against the scale of natural forces, and that climate change is being used primarily as a revenue-generating exercise by "the climate-industrial complex".

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wishart_(journalist)#Post-TV_career

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                14 March 2025 at 3:22 pm

                None of which was covered in the article concerned.

                If you think there should have been a different article written, I'm in total agreement with you,

                But both the climate scientist and the journalist dropped the ball on this one.

                Reply
                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  14 March 2025 at 4:09 pm

                  None of which was covered in the article concerned.

                  Michael Scott @2.1 critiqued the article of an RNZ journalist, although it appears Michael's critiquing days on TS are over, at least for a wee while.

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14-03-2025/#comment-2028555

                  I was critiquing Ian Wishart, an opponent of the expert consensus on climate change, after you linked to his (imho sloppy) article in 'Centrist'. Admittedly, my critique might have been a bit oblique and overlong – other Standardistas have been more pithy and/or informative.

                  Nevertheless, I welcome your decision to introduce Wishart into this thread – even before Michael Scott did – it was enlightening.

                  Reply
        • Michael Scott 2.1.3.2
          14 March 2025 at 10:41 am

          Thanks Belladonna I hadn't seen that.

          Another thought is the huge influence that advertisers used to have on the papers they advertised in. Until Google and FB turned up and stole it all.

          The American consumer watchdog Ralph Nader used to rail agains the power of advertisors in the press.

          At least now when we advertise we can tell which ads work and which don't.

          Reply
          • gsays 2.1.3.2.1
            14 March 2025 at 10:51 am

            …stole it all.

            You might wanna mention that to the social parasites that are the Real Estate Industry.

            Reply
          • joe90 2.1.3.2.2
            14 March 2025 at 12:50 pm

            At least now when we advertise we can tell which ads work and which don't.

            lol

            “Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half.”

            – John Wanamaker

            Reply
        • tWig 2.1.3.3
          14 March 2025 at 12:16 pm

          Cute, Belladonna. You quote the Jim Grenon-owned The Centrist to make your point. Circular argument, what?

          Although he is onselling it to another Canadian billionaire, now he has a larger media vehicle to drive right. The Centrist was his starter media foray, I guess. Clearly enough kiwi gullibles for him to scale-up.

          Reply
          • Belladonna 2.1.3.3.1
            14 March 2025 at 1:28 pm

            Suggest you get over the source and examine the argument.

            Reply
            • tWig 2.1.3.3.1.1
              14 March 2025 at 2:37 pm

              Not interested in a hatchet job on RNZ, one of the few information-rich media sources for kiwis; a job carried out by a paid shill for ‘the NZ billionaires club’.

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                14 March 2025 at 3:31 pm

                So accurate facts are only important when it's a cause you believe in?

                Reply
                • tWig …
                  14 March 2025 at 3:47 pm

                  What part of NZ billionaires club passed you by?

                  If this were RNZ fake-newsing a critical political topic, then maybe. But this is a storm in a small, slightly unscientific teacup. Climate change is real.

                  I've been to The Centrist following a link from someone here before. I cruised through its back issues, and decided a sprinkle of facts in a big ocean of rw talking points and op-eds was not worth revisiting. Every click just ups Grenon's asking price for his oleagenous rag.

                  So nah, your hardsell is wasted on me.

                  Reply
                  • Belladonna …
                    14 March 2025 at 3:55 pm

                    Gather you didn't bother reading the article then – so conversation with you on the topic is a waste of time.

                    Reply
                    • tWig …
                      14 March 2025 at 4:13 pm

                      Yes, you're right. I have judged the TC as a non-credible source of information, based on 20 min of time wasted at its website previously. I don't want have to unpick fact from bullshit.

                      The point I made was not the issue under discussion, which I have zero interest in debating, but your choice of a dodgy information source funded by the very person mentioned at the start of this topic to support your position.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.4
        14 March 2025 at 12:14 pm

        https://ourworldindata.org/co2-and-greenhouse-gas-emissions

        Imho, it's unnecessary to cite isolated/localised damaging weather-related events, such as those that occurred recently on the SplishSplash coast, in support or denial of anthropogenic global warming – the evidence has been in for decades now.

        Many alive today are doing BAU and hoping they won't be too badly affected. A devil take the hindmost, and future generations, 'strategy' – if you like.

        https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/23/ugliest_global_warming_chart/

        Reply
      • Incognito 2.1.5
        14 March 2025 at 12:43 pm

        Mod note

        Reply
    • SPC 2.2
      14 March 2025 at 10:43 am

      Interesting comment from Wright, that he is happy enough with the Platform (suggesting more impact via a lower cost position in the media market).

      The Canadian claims to want a move from opinion from columnists to journal of record, to broaden the customer base.

      Maybe noting that this space is crowded out by online (non print) rivals.

      Reply
  3. gsays 3
    14 March 2025 at 11:02 am

    Power to the people and all that but this is nothing more than a subsidy to the shareholders and the owners of capital.

    https://kaitiaki.org.nz/article/government-committed-to-pay-parity-for-primary-health-nurses-simeon-brown/

    Luxon's lie about nurses wages is repeated in the article but is rebutted a paragraph or two later.

    Reply
  4. bwaghorn 4
    14 March 2025 at 12:12 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360614966/another-school-lunch-provider-goes-liquidation

    The act party prefers to import school lunchs while sending nz companies into liquidation

    Reply
  5. mpledger 5
    14 March 2025 at 12:14 pm

    In the States, a case of measles has cropped up in Los Angeles as part of the Texas outbreak. LA is the gateway to the Pacific (via American Samoa) and NZ (through tourism). If you're thinking of getting your kids vaccinated for measles because they missed out during COVID now would be a good time to get it done.

    Reply
  6. Drowsy M. Kram 6
    14 March 2025 at 12:36 pm

    ‘Public institutions’ like schools and hospitals shouldn’t be owned privately – Chris Hipkins [14 March 2025]

    Will private capital ('financialisation') really 'rescue' Kiwis, or is NZ just a cash cow?

    Private Financial Actors and Financialisation in Global Health [Jan 2025]
    The era of the Sustainable Development Goals has become the era of private finance. Decades-long political, economic and social trends have seen rapid growth in the size and scale of private finance relative to public finance, and the increasing political power of private financial actors. In global development, this has taken form in narratives and actions that establish and quantify investment gaps, call for greater and greater levels of private finance to fill these gaps, and create new financial instruments with which to realise the expansion of private financial capital. These changes are sometimes referred to as ‘financialisation’.

    The 'Silent Violence' of Corporate Greed and Power [8 Dec 2024]
    But corporate culture, marinated to the core with endless cravings for ever-growing easy profits, is very hard to change – especially when it is so easy to extract more and more premium dollars from powerless consumers who lack adequate regulatory protections.

    Honey, who shrunk the government?

    Reply
    • Ad 6.1
      14 March 2025 at 3:19 pm

      IMHO Government capacity was shrunk in the short term by tax cuts gutting available future public funding, an economy on life support, a gutted public service both in structure and in number to organise the work, low appetite for further public debt either in central or local government, and really low quality Cabinet decisionmaking.

      Reply
      • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1.1
        14 March 2025 at 3:34 pm

        Thanks Ad – makes sense. A CoC govt, serving corporate interests/donors/masters.

        Jane Kelsey – Transforming neoliberalism [Wellington, 19 March 2025]
        Prof Jane Kelsey examines what the ACT party and the NZ Initiative are up to as they seek to impose on the country their hardline, right wing, neoliberal ideology.

        A progressive government elected in 2026 would have a huge job putting Humpty Dumpty together again and rebuilding a state that serves New Zealanders rather than corporate interests.

        Reply
  7. tWig 7
    14 March 2025 at 4:56 pm

    I commented here a while back that apparent anti-semitic attacks on property in NSW might have been carried out by paid thugs.

    According to the Guardian, and following the finding of a rural explosives-packed caravan, Australian Federal Police now believe all this activity is not anti-semitic, per se, but a ploy by criminals to soak up police resource.

    'None of those arrested to date over alleged antisemitic attacks in Sydney had displayed any antisemitic ideology, Hudson said.

    Barrett alleged criminals were “paying others to carry out antisemitic or ‘terrorism’ incidents to get our attention and divert our resources”, with alleged offenders “accepting these tasks for money”.'

    A weird opportunistic spin on stocastic terror by aussie crims.

    Reply

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