Open mike 14/07/2020

120 comments on “Open mike 14/07/2020 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   14 July 2020 at 6:36 am

   Here's a good pic of Trump's finger-pointing for a caption competition: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/will-the-us-election-be-a-geopolitical-turning-point

   Stephen Hoadley, Associate Professor of Politics and International Relations at the University of Auckland’s Faculty of Arts, examines the US election.

   Until Trump’s digressions, US presidents had made the following contributions to ‘making America great’:

   He follows with a paragraph summarising the greatness effect of each of nine presidents, some rather unconvincing! Then the current situation:

   Biden is 10 percentage points ahead of Trump in an average of polls. He has been endorsed by Obama, Sanders, Powell, 80 top former security officials, several new Political Action Committees (PACs), and by the majority of persons of colour.
   • Cinny 1.1

     14 July 2020 at 7:32 am

     Cheers for posting Dennis, that's some good fodder for when I'm trolling the MAGA crowd 🙂

     Any word yet on who Biden's running mate is please?

     Do you know please, if a President became unfit for office would the Vice President become President?
     • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 7:54 am

       Andre is the best here for advice on the constitutional method for determining that a US president is unfit for office, but yes, the VP would move up if it happens.

       I posted here a week or two back a report which said Biden will decide on a running mate by the end of July, from memory (vague, sorry), but the short list of black female candidates was down to three in that report.
       • Cinny 1.1.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 8:07 am

         Thanks Dennis, much appreciated. Will ask Andre next time I see him on.
     • Andre 1.1.2

       14 July 2020 at 8:08 am

       No decision yet on Biden's running mate. ISTR they were planning to make the announcement around 1st August.

       The 25th Amendment spells out what happens if a President becomes unable to carry out their duties. Yes, in that case the Vice-President becomes President.

       It provides for handing over temporarily, as has been used a number of times when the president has had a medical procedure done.

       It provides for when a president becomes permenently incapacitated, but not dead, such as by suffering a stroke.

       It provides for when a president is clearly bonkers and completely mentally unfit for the position, which should have been used at any time in the last 3 and a half years but hasn't because all the Repug officeholders that would need to act to make it happen are so cravenly spineless they make jellyfish look like Winston Churchill.

       If your question is about what happens if the nominee for President becomes incapacitated before the election, that depends on timing.

       If it happens before the nominating convention, then it basically becomes a free-for-all at the convention. If the presumptive nominee (right now, Biden for the Dems and that Repugnant stygian homunculus) is in a fit state to express their opinion on who should be their replacement to their pledged delegates, that may be a decisive factor.

       Post convention when they are the actual nominee, it's still not completely clear and is nominally up to the party to decide what to do, but the strongest likelihood is that the veep nominee would become the presidential nominee and choose a new veep nominee. Same as would happen for an elected president and veep.
       • Cinny 1.1.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 6:24 pm

         Thanks Andre for explaining, you're awesome 🙂 I really appreciate your insight on the USA elections.

         Maybe there is still hope for the USA after all, depending on Biden's running mate, who may have to take over at some stage.
2. NZJester 2

   14 July 2020 at 6:57 am

   Looks like Act has found a way to grow their support by pulling in all the fringe groups they can with promises to support them. What other fringe groups besides the anti 1080 and anti gun control groups will they try and court next? National's dirty politics people must be rubbing their hands with glee they can target these groups with disinformation to get them to vote for Act and bolster Nationals puppet party.

   The anti 1080 and anti gun control people are being played hard but they are to focused on getting what they want to realize it trapped in their own little disinformation group bubbles.
3. Treetop 3

   14 July 2020 at 7:36 am

   Muller has resigned.
   • Cinny 3.1

     14 July 2020 at 7:39 am

     Snap !!! Dang, are they trying to do an Andrew and Jacinda, because it ain't gonna work.

     They are imploding. Crikey!

     Edit…. Crusher is visiting Motueka tomorrow…. hmmmm
     • Treetop 3.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 7:45 am

       Please not Collins to much history with her.
4. francesca 4

   14 July 2020 at 7:37 am

   Phew!

   Who's next in line?

   Muller just resigned
   • Peter 4.1

     14 July 2020 at 7:42 am

     'Health reasons' said a headline. The party is terminal he meant.
     • peterh 4.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 7:52 am

       Not health heat
     • Graeme 4.1.2

       14 July 2020 at 7:59 am

       Having to lead that mess would take a severe toll on anyones health. He's certainly gone to bits as it's gone on and I was starting to be concerned for the guy.
       • Ffloyd 4.1.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 11:09 am

         So was I. Very pleased to see he had the internal strength to walk away from the swill. I don't think he realised how morally corrupt that little band of Neanderthal are. You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. All the best to him and his family. Picking the next one to enter the bear pit will be Amy Adams. If so good luck to her. All I can say.
         • weka 4.1.2.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 11:58 am

           You lie down with rats you get eaten by your bed mates.
   • Kiwijoker 4.2

     14 July 2020 at 7:43 am

     Woodhouse would have to have the required, values, integrity and moral compass to be their leader.
     • Cinny 4.2.1

       14 July 2020 at 7:45 am

       Just about chocked on my cuppa! Lmao !!! Moral compass… rofl !!!
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 2:37 pm

         But, but…

         Didn't we just buy him a new one?
     • Treetop 4.2.2

       14 July 2020 at 7:48 am

       See if Woodhouse is back benched.
     • Goodgrief 4.2.3

       14 July 2020 at 9:56 am

       You are presumably joking Kiwijoker. Woodhouse is, I'd suggest, one of the main reasons Muller has resigned. The Heron inquiry will no doubt show that he had been corresponding with Boag WITHOUT telling Muller. The National Party caucus is deeply divided and Woodhouse was/is a strong Bridges supporter.
       • greywarshark 4.2.3.1

         14 July 2020 at 10:40 am

         Woodlouse? Sort of boring into the timbre of the Gnats!
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.3.2

         14 July 2020 at 2:42 pm

         Woodhouse is, I'd suggest, one of the main reasons Muller has resigned.

         Exactly.
   • bwaghorn 4.3

     14 July 2020 at 7:44 am

     Its a worry . I would never have voted muller but he atleast seemed to have some decency.
     • Cinny 4.3.1

       14 July 2020 at 7:48 am

       He's economical with the truth, which is hardly a decent quality.
       • bwaghorn 4.3.1.1

         14 July 2020 at 7:54 am

         He got cornered by woodhouse last week . I reckon hes been knifed.
         • Pingao 4.3.1.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 8:27 am

           The health reasons could be the stabbing sensations between his shoulder blades.
       • weka 4.3.1.2

         14 July 2020 at 11:59 am

         he's in National, lying is part of the job. But I don't think he is sociopathic, which was an improvement.
     • RedLogix 4.3.2

       14 July 2020 at 7:52 am

       Same here.

       This is a surprise, clearly the mess he inherited from Key and Bridges was worse than he imagined. If you actually care about doing the right thing, being in a position of responsibility to fix it is highly stressful.

       “The role has taken a heavy toll on me personally, and on my family, and this has become untenable from a health perspective.”

       I think also he may have realised his public speaking and communication skills were not up to being PM.

       I'd give the guy points for self-awareness and the courage to leave with dignity.
       • Dennis Frank 4.3.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 7:58 am

         "It has become clear to me that I am not the best person to be Leader of the Opposition and Leader of the New Zealand National Party at this critical time for New Zealand," he said. "It is more important than ever that the New Zealand National Party has a leader who is comfortable in the role. The role has taken a heavy toll on me personally, and on my family, and this has become untenable from a health perspective."

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/421152/todd-muller-resigns-as-national-party-leader
         • RedLogix 4.3.2.1.1

           14 July 2020 at 8:02 am

           Ta. I forgot the linky …

           In this instance I’m willing to take the ‘health reasons’ excuse at face value. That plus what may well be discouraging internal polling …
           • Dennis Frank 4.3.2.1.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 8:08 am

             “I'd give the guy points for self-awareness and the courage to leave with dignity”

             Me too. Nats seem in deep shit now. They need an uncompromised leader to succeed but there's no obvious contenders who fit that description!
         • OnceWasTim 4.3.2.1.2

           14 July 2020 at 8:12 am

           If I was a gNat, I'd have voted for him too in the absence of an alternative. But can you tell me why you're surprised? I was wondering when rather than if ,

           Perhaps Wayne will be along soon to defend and educate us, while the various rent-a-voices elsewhere will give us all some in-depth analysis
           • Dennis Frank 4.3.2.1.2.1

             14 July 2020 at 8:27 am

             Looks like you intended that as a reply to RL – but it is a surprise since bad poll ratings haven't sufficiently emerged as likely trigger. Farrar still has his early June poll on kiwiblog – if he did polling early July it may have been so dire for National that he decided not to post it onsite, but if notified to Muller that could have catalysed the resignation.

             The sense I get is that Muller was never ensconced in control. I hope Nat factionalism will emerge into the media now. Will they succeed in keeping that stuff covert? Depends on caucus perception of common interests…
             • OnceWasTim …

               14 July 2020 at 10:01 am

               Yep, I did Dennis. Not sure how that happened – possibly phat fingers on a cold early morning keyboard. Those polls those polls though eh? Sometimes about as useful as measuring the voices of a taxi drivers, people in one's own community, and various bubbles one hops hops between, and then putting it all in a David Mac blender

               

               By the way, I’m wondering how many of the Christian right have popped along to their local lately to listen to their minister’s words of wisdom. It might not be a bad idea if they did. Wotcha rekons?
               • Dennis Frank …

                 14 July 2020 at 11:29 am

                 I consulted google, feeling the need to call upon a higher power. Revelation was prompt:

                 God moves in a mysterious way

                 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Moves_in_a_Mysterious_Way

                 Given that christian ministers aren't big on delivering political advice to parishioners, I reckon their folks will have to be traditional: find an omen to interpret… 😇
         • Cinny 4.3.2.1.3

           14 July 2020 at 8:12 am

           Health reasons or family reasons is just an excuse if he continues to stand for election as an MP.

           One doesn't put their hand up to be leader without understanding the weight of the role.

           Oh snap….. $$$$$$ billboards etc to replace.
           • anker 4.3.2.1.3.1

             14 July 2020 at 9:08 am

             Ha ha ha yes the billboards…."Better team, more jobs" They seem to be creating many job opportunities e.g. leader of the opposition positions, Southland/Clutha candidates, not to mention the stream of National MPs leaving
           • Treetop 4.3.2.1.3.2

             14 July 2020 at 9:58 pm

             Muller might be a late scratching, not sure if he will vacate or be asked to go.
       • mauī 4.3.2.2

         14 July 2020 at 8:58 am

         Yeah right… he's been in fine fettle the past few weeks bagging Labour for everything health related.
       • Treetop 4.3.2.3

         14 July 2020 at 9:01 am

         On News Hub Garner made these comments after 8 am.

         What is John Key doing they could bring him back?

         And

         Cut and run.

         Muller gets points from me on knowing that his family comes first and not a garden full of weeds which just keeps growing.
         • Incognito 4.3.2.3.1

           14 July 2020 at 10:51 am

           Huh? DP is sinking the party and he calls for the Grand-Master of DP to come back who’s not even an MP!? Garner should have a lie down and a cuppa and he may, just may, come up with a moderately useful uttering for once.
           • Treetop 4.3.2.3.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 2:46 pm

             The gift which keeps giving and giving and giving…
       • anker 4.3.2.4

         14 July 2020 at 9:02 am

         Sure give the guy points for self awareness etc……………but actually no self awareness when he launched the coup that he was the very worst person for the job……………….just remembering the Simon Wilson article where he concluded Muller seemed convinced of his own exceptionlism
         • Incognito 4.3.2.4.1

           14 July 2020 at 10:53 am

           Simon Wilson’s opinion doesn’t make it true.
           • OnceWasTim 4.3.2.4.1.1

             14 July 2020 at 11:26 am

             Ain't that the truth. Simon's probably still yearning for a polished concrete floor somewhere in Burma Road, a little more corduroy in his wardrobe, reflecting on lysergic JollyGreenGiants in pill form allowing him his his historical interpretations, and trusting in his bloody good journalism (by comparison with the rest) to move him forward (in this space).
         • RedLogix 4.3.2.4.2

           14 July 2020 at 11:19 am

           but actually no self awareness when he launched the coup that he was the very worst person for the job

           Not really. If Muller is remembered for nothing else but rolling the moral vacuum called Simon Bridges, he will have done OK in my book.
   • Graeme 4.4

     14 July 2020 at 7:51 am

     Oh will the National Party just get their shit together and stop fighting amongst themselves, I've got work to do.

     Not looking good there, they've burnt through the leaders they can sort of agree on.
   • Muttonbird 4.5

     14 July 2020 at 7:56 am

     Probably because there's more to come out on the dirty politics and lying to media.

     As for Hooton, that went well mate, didn't it?
   • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 4.6

     14 July 2020 at 8:11 am

     Sorry about the mistaken address a moment ago – in my excitement I typed the message in the wrong place.

     Have another go!

     Woodlouse next!!!
5. Tricledrown 5

   14 July 2020 at 7:42 am

   Must be internal polling Hooton ,Woodhouse,in his interview he was up for the hard yards.

   Who's up next Crusher Collins.
6. Peter 6

   14 July 2020 at 7:49 am

   Ben Thomas on radio :"Congratulations to him." WHAT?

   For what? Covering up and lying last week? Getting out before an official report comes out that he knows will be most unfavourable and that much closer to the election?
7. Barfly 7

   14 July 2020 at 7:59 am

   

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
   • RedLogix 7.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:04 am

     Actually the perfect song for doing CPR to.
     • Cinny 7.1.1

       14 July 2020 at 8:08 am

       That bass line
     • Incognito 7.1.2

       14 July 2020 at 10:57 am

       Mama, just killed a man
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.1

         14 July 2020 at 2:51 pm

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irLsjBDPe5c
8. Cricklewood 8

   14 July 2020 at 8:08 am

   Hmm can't help but think Crushers master plan has just come to fruition
   • Muttonbird 8.1

     14 July 2020 at 8:16 am

     Will Cameron Slater be the National Party strategist?
   • Treetop 8.2

     14 July 2020 at 10:04 pm

     It took Collins 18 years, a few scandals, a demotion or two, and count up the leaders.

     Did Collins ever make deputy?
9. Andre 9

   14 July 2020 at 8:15 am

   Bring back Bridges!
10. Bloke 10

    14 July 2020 at 8:16 am

    Todd's gone by lunchtime, shame really but whos next up for a turn in the barrel, Nikki?
    • Graeme 10.1

      14 July 2020 at 8:42 am

      Lunchtime… pretty much before breakfast….
11. Bloke 11

    14 July 2020 at 8:52 am

    See that the bouffanted one formerly from Ohariu-Belmont has recommended crusher. He was always a dark horse that romantic devil
12. Gosman 12

    14 July 2020 at 8:54 am

    Muller's resignation is good news for ACT. On track for well over 5% of the vote now.

    [lprent: Please don’t astroturf that same comment everywhere. ]
    • bwaghorn 12.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:08 am

      It's ok they'll be in opposition until the nats sort there shit and then they'll be back to .5% and one puppet
    • Treetop 12.2

      14 July 2020 at 9:13 am

      I said it approx 6 weeks ago Seymour needs to be the National Party leader.

      I could see Seymour was accumulating seats as well. I predicted 3-4.

      How many at 5%?

      Seymour has it so sweet as he does not have a caucus to leak information.
      • Incognito 12.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 10:59 am

        All ACT Leaders of late have been one-man shows. None of them could lead a herd of feral cats starved of power. It would be Seymour’s death sentence.
        • Draco T Bastard 12.2.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 3:05 pm

          Quick.

          Seymour for National leadership.

          And, its only fair – National did put Don Brash in as Leader of Act.
          • Incognito 12.2.1.1.1

            14 July 2020 at 6:30 pm

            Utu or Karma?
          • Pat 12.2.1.1.2

            14 July 2020 at 6:33 pm

            after Douglas. Prebble and Hyde
    • Gosman 12.3

      14 July 2020 at 4:37 pm

      Lprent, the only reason the comment appeared on this thread was because I posted it and it did not appear for ages so I assumed you wanted it in Open Mike (although it was still valid for that other thread as well).
      • lprent 12.3.1

        14 July 2020 at 8:15 pm

        Fair enough. I didn't release it, so I have no idea what you got caught by on the comment (could look up the history – but bearing in mind the short time between comments, it was probably just caching).

        I was scanning through the comments at the backend and saw an identical comment in two different posts on the same backend page of comments. Went back up the page and left the note on the last one as a warning.

        Don't take it personally, it is one of my standing reflexive triggers for a warning. I do it to everyone to prevent anyone wanting to use it as a tactic. hell, I still even have the SQL around to detect persistent astroturfing between posts.
        • Incognito 12.3.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 9:31 pm

          He was on troll-watch in Pre-Moderation.
          • lprent 12.3.1.1.1

            14 July 2020 at 9:35 pm

            Figured it’d be something like that.
13. anker 13

    14 July 2020 at 9:05 am

    Yes act has only ever got anywhere due to the generosity of National
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      14 July 2020 at 3:06 pm

      Not true. ACT was most successful just after it split from Labour.
      • anker 13.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 4:46 pm

        True Draco!
    • Gosman 13.2

      14 July 2020 at 4:44 pm

      Rodney Hide initially won Epsom in spite of National trying to stop him doing so.
14. Adrian 14

    14 July 2020 at 9:16 am

    Muller for the last week just looked as if he did not want to be there and I don’t think he has had a decent nights sleep in ages. I almost felt sorry for him but kicked myself and reminded myself that actually thinking you are the Leader people need should be the the primary disqualifying factor.
    I believe the health reason.

    In the last week I have suggested that Bridges would be the Nat leader by the Election to much hilarity from my mates, well, my one mate anyway.
    • Gabby 14.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:38 am

      He expected it to be easy like his other pretend jobs. Poor good ol boy.
      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 3:10 pm

        That's part of the problem with National – they actually believe that government is a pretend job.

        John Key wilted after he became PM. It was obvious from the get go that the job was far harder than he ever believed it would be and it took its toll on him.
        • I Feel Love 14.1.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 3:21 pm

          Key, the David Brent of politics, "I'm an entertainer first, a boss second".
          • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1.1.1

            14 July 2020 at 4:41 pm

            “The President in particular is very much a figurehead — he wields no real power whatsoever. He is apparently chosen by the government, but the qualities he is required to display are not those of leadership but those of finely judged outrage. For this reason the President is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it. On those criteria Zaphod Beeblebrox is one of the most successful Presidents the Galaxy has ever had — he has already spent two of his ten presidential years in prison for fraud.”

            Douglass Adams.
15. ianmac 15

    14 July 2020 at 9:30 am

    Will Woodhouse be able to continue in his Health role? Does he have universal liking and credibility or will he be another casualty? Hope he gets demoted or maybe he will just resign?
    • Robert Guyton 15.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:52 am

      Mike Herron's hot on his tail.
    • I Feel Love 15.2

      14 July 2020 at 9:55 am

      And Hooton? Does he go too?
      • Incognito 15.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 11:01 am

        He goes but never really leaves.
        • I Feel Love 15.2.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 12:48 pm

          "You can check out, but never leave"
16. ianmac 16

    14 July 2020 at 9:55 am

    Now we know why Muller did not front up for Q&A on Sunday.
    • observer 16.1

      14 July 2020 at 11:39 am

      He was brought down by reporters and interviewers doing their job.

      Some of the bores who constantly parrot "media wah wah all useless wah wah" might like to reflect on that for a while. But probably won't.
    • Treetop 16.2

      14 July 2020 at 2:59 pm

      Heron will need to extend the terms of the inquiry.

      A leader cannot keep making comments or answering questions when they do not know the full answer.
17. The Chairman 17

    14 July 2020 at 10:24 am

    What a pity it's only 84 of them and it seems only one New Zealander. But it's a start.

    Sir Stephen Tindall among group of rich people wanting higher taxes to aid Covid-19 recovery.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/sir-stephen-tindall-among-group-rich-people-wanting-higher-taxes-aid-covid-19-recovery
18. I Feel Love 18

    14 July 2020 at 1:06 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/cjsbishop/status/1282764090109091840 someone is a bit upset.
19. greywarshark 19

    14 July 2020 at 1:11 pm

    It angers me when some smart-arse comes along after a scare of some sort which involved precautions and limits, and because professionals did not have the right crystal ball exactly aligned they receive sneers and cat-calls.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/second-wave-covid-swedish-approach-will-have-right-along/
    The Telegraph writer here Christopher Snowdon, takes a sneering look at the concerned professionals in the UK who called for sharp action with warnings of possible disastrous outcomes (which have occurred in USA and Brazil we note). The fact is that Sweden did not duck and take cover and hasn't been bowled over because they were watching the borders and quick to isolate sick people.

    This is the Timeline for Sweden:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden

    I think the UK was not as organised and the results show. The Guardian states that Sweden had 25 deaths and 2016 Coronavirus cases at 23 March 2020. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/swedish-pm-warned-russian-roulette-covid-19-strategy-herd-immunity

    Other charts shows UK with known 1035 cases on 22 March – https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom?country=~GBR
    and UK deaths at 20 March 170-210 depending on how the figures were gathered – https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52103808

    I think it shows bad form to pot the professionals for doing their job of informing possibilities in a seriously concerned fashion.
20. Incognito 20

    14 July 2020 at 1:18 pm

    But New Zealand is small and not a big market, so why would those financing false news be interested in our elections?

    Admittedly powerful foreign organisations probably don’t really care whether it is Jacinda Ardern or Todd Muller who is prime minister, but they may want to use New Zealand as a pawn in other political discussions.

    This piece is so odd that it almost comes across as a deliberate distraction.

    The second to last paragraph will lead to predictable behaviour and the tips towards the end are pretty lightweight.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300055591/general-elections-are-nearing-which-means-it-is-fake-news-season
21. joe90 21

    14 July 2020 at 1:33 pm

    Fun thread.

    https://twitter.com/Zeddary/status/1155486497451184128

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1155486497451184128.html
22. The Chairman 22

    14 July 2020 at 1:45 pm

    NZPP rules out the Vision Party.

    NZPP new membership has grown from averaging 100 a day to 200 a day.

    Seems to be a grassroots movement growing here.

    Could end up being a wildcard to look out for.
    • Adrian 22.1

      14 July 2020 at 2:50 pm

      Why would anybody call themselves the NZ Piss Poor Party?
23. Fireblade 23

    14 July 2020 at 1:47 pm

    
    • Macro 23.1

      14 July 2020 at 1:55 pm

      😂
24. observer 24

    14 July 2020 at 1:53 pm

    Yesterday I said on here that the "secret" hotel location for Aus deportees would inevitably be discovered and named.

    It took 24 hours.
    • Gabby 24.1

      14 July 2020 at 7:52 pm

      Wonder who tipped off the Hibbledribble.
25. Macro 25

    14 July 2020 at 1:57 pm

    Now for something completely different.

    This is actually a real workout to which I can relate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2VNaiIyG8&pp=wgIECgIIAQ%3D%3D
26. aj 26

    14 July 2020 at 2:59 pm

    Former Prime Minister Jim Bolger says the National Party needs to choose a new leader who is bold enough to talk publicly about tax increases and New Zealand's post-Covid economic future. “Bolger said no political parties were saying what the political implications were for the government’s major spending during the Covid-19 pandemic “to keep the economy half afloat”.

    “We have to address the tax issues, now we’ve done the spending issue … we’re talking massive sums of money and nobody in any political party – even the commentators are not – saying ‘well, how do we address this now?'”

    He said the government had done a good job in ensuring that New Zealand did not have a Covid-19 problem of the scale that other countries have, “but we do have a problem in the scale of debt that we’ve loaded on ourselves”.

    He said tax and rate increases were the stark reality of what New Zealand had to do, and the discussion it must have, but much bolder leadership was needed as a result of Covid-19.

    “We had bold leadership to manage the virus – full marks – now we have to have bold leadership to manage the aftermath and that requires a real look at how we go about taxing and spending because at the moment they’re just totally out of kilter with reality.

    “And I just hope there are leaders out there, in all parties, that’ll step up to that.”

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018754854/jim-bolger-on-the-resignation-of-todd-muller

    Jim Bolger has channeled Corbyn and Sanders several times recently and continues his Road To Damascus moment in this interview. I know he gets served – and deservedly so – for his part in the promoting Chicago School economics but I'll give the guy a break because he's following his conscience and and the doing the right thing now.

    Only trouble is there isn't single Nat you can name that would have the balls (or mana) to change the conversation. Same, more the pity, with Labour, but should they get to govern alone (far from a given) perhaps Robertson et al will grow some. But I suspect the political reality is that heavier and more progressive tax plans will only get a nod from the people when the worlds already past gone.
    • Nic the NZer 26.1

      14 July 2020 at 3:29 pm

      You've been had. Calling for Austerity (cutting the deficit with tax hikes) way too soon after a recession is precisely a Chicago school type prescription.

      With unemployment at elevated levels this would likely be as destructive as when Boldgers government did it during the mid 90s.

      If you want to understand the Chicago school connection then look up the concept called Ricardian equivalence. Then consider if it seems reasonable to claim your presently limiting spending in anticipation of tax hikes (and the converse), or due to the state of the economy.
      • aj 26.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 7:33 pm

        I'm pretty sure Bolger is calling for a wealth tax. I would support that. And the Tobin Tax. If you believe 'debt must be repaid' then it has to come from taxing unproductive currency flows and the very wealthy.
        • Nic the NZer 26.1.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 8:06 pm

          Clearly Bolgers first concern is the level of government debt. I don't believe he got as far as specifying what kind of tax to collect. Your projecting and another punter would project their own preferred tax onto his statements.

          There are plenty of other ways to reduce the govt debt level of course. For a start you could stop issuing new debt (and just allow the OCR fall to zero). Or have the RBNZ buy and write off as much as desired. Not that this is an actual present policy concern.
27. Dennis Frank 27

    14 July 2020 at 3:40 pm

    Bernard Hickey goes fishing for a transformational PM: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/is-the-pm-a-transformer-or-just-a-manager

    Ardern has kept her second-term policy reform powder as dry as possible, knowing that a low-target strategy the surest way to re-election in this MMP landscape. But now that plausible deniability is gone. Todd Muller's spectacular resignation and the prospect of a National voting sagging into the low 30 percent range means there is a very real prospect of a Labour alone or Labour-Green Government from September 20.

    Now there is nowhere to hide. If you're likely to win, the public would like to know what you're going to do with that victory and unprecedented power in nearly a quarter of a century of always-in-coalition government.

    He's right. The time to declare Labour's aspirations is nigh. There will be wiggle room for a while, but Jacinda ought not wait too long. Next poll will provide a basis for being ambitious. In a careful, moderate way…
    • Robert Guyton 27.1

      14 July 2020 at 4:11 pm

      Doesn't matter if she says nothing at all – National have lost the election; Labour need only bide their time. The win will come, no matter what she says or doesn't say.
    • Incognito 27.2

      14 July 2020 at 6:39 pm

      Lightbulbs and showerheads.
      • Pat 27.2.1

        14 July 2020 at 6:43 pm

        insufficient time for that sort of campaign
      • Nic the NZer 27.2.2

        14 July 2020 at 7:01 pm

        Isn't Aucklands entire water shortage due to the wrong kinds of lightbulb and showerhead?
        • Incognito 27.2.2.1

          14 July 2020 at 9:35 pm

          They definitely need brighter lights in Auckland.
    • Gabby 27.3

      14 July 2020 at 8:15 pm

      He's wrong. He just wants Labour to put up a nice big target for Mercky Mitch to snipe at.
28. greywarshark 28

    14 July 2020 at 5:38 pm

    Have you caught up with these pople yet – Regenerative Farming.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018754714/regenerative-agriculture-road-show

    Tomorrow they are at Rotherham near Culverden Then Ashburton.
    Dates:
    https://www.linnburnstation.co.nz/events/?fbclid=IwAR0P3ZColurvYICENgeL_n1dnF64Y7Ftrqznf6Oqe40hI6QxaHl8RcW83Ss
29. lprent 29

    14 July 2020 at 9:32 pm

    Server is starting to get a bit warmer than usual.

    It must be election season.
    • Incognito 29.1

      14 July 2020 at 9:36 pm

      Can you fry an egg yet?
      • lprent 29.1.1

        14 July 2020 at 9:40 pm

        72C peak on the core. 63C on the radiator. So nope. Makes a effective space heater though in a well insulated apartment.
        • lprent 29.1.1.1

          14 July 2020 at 10:20 pm

          Couple of minor tweaks now that I can see a loaded performance on php7.4. It appears that they have increased the per process performance at a power and noise chewing higher levels of short term CPU performance. Not useful for this usage. I was wondering about the higher core usage.

          Increased the process pool. Dropped the priority of php processes so the database gets more attention, increased the number of handles that can open, increased the number of requests before closing processes, increased the available processes and the time before each would fail, increased the memory cache quite a lot, etc, etc.

          That reduced the process load at the CPU by a magnitude. Should effectively run quieter and deliver the same user performance. Effectively I have prioritized the database and web server over the raw code performance.

          It is now handling the peaks a lot faster.

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