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Open mike 14/11/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 14th, 2019 - 85 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

85 comments on “Open mike 14/11/2019 ”

  1. Herodotus 1

    Net Migration Dec 2017 = 52 646

    Sept 2019 = 54,623

    https://www.interest.co.nz/property/102531/migration-added-54623-people-countrys-population-year-september

    Thanks for this traffic and the news that the housing market is taking off – Labour is the govt and we have all these issues that they were to address – Thanks for doing Nothing – Deliver on the vision you sold us at the election.

    In total, these changes are estimated to reduce net migration by 20,000-30,000. Without these changes there would be up to 10,000 more houses needed and up to 20,000 more vehicles on our roads annually.

    https://www.labour.org.nz/immigration

  2. marty mars 2

    I agree with this analysis

    The police hope a new strategy will bring down Māori over-representation in criminal justice statistics.

    …Te Huringa o Te Tai is a refreshed version of The Turning of The Tide strategy, released in 2012.

    Julia Whaipooti, a justice reform advocate who is part of an independent advisory group appointed by Justice Minister Andrew Little says “The one thing I’d be critical about that is that it puts it on Māori … in order to do that, the onus needs to be on police to change how they practise, where they patrol, and how they exercise discretion.”

    …But Whaipooti says the introduction of armed police patrol trials flies in the face of what the police strategy sets out, by introducing armed police in areas with predominantly brown populations.

    “This seems really contradictory in terms of what the police actions are showing, to what their strategy says that they’re doing.

    “The strategy comes out and says we want to work differently with Māori… and then at the same time, they release a policy which has not done any of that.”

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018722027/police-maori-strategy-a-re-turning-of-the-tide

  3. Andre 3

    Oh wow. Giuliani's latest talking point to … ummm … defend America's prolapsed rectum is that only a part of his phone call to Ukraine's president was about extorting Ukraine into smearing his political opponent.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-op-ed-wall-street-journal_n_5dcbc31ae4b0d43931cc8308

    • WeTheBleeple 3.1

      Like when Ronnie Biggs only spent part of his day robbing that train. Hence jumping the wall and only doing part of his sentence. Trump's 'smart', he's built his own wall to jump over. Not sure he thought about the reception he'll get on the other side though.

      If nothing else, he's exposed the utter fraud that is the Republicans feigning any interest in ethics, morals, their country or their constituents. Just more self-obsessed Tory corporate sock puppets from where I'm sitting.

      The enemies of the Earth.

  4. marty mars 4

    The truth does come out sometimes.

    When the congresswoman Ilhan Omar called Donald Trump’s top immigration adviser, Stephen Miller, a white nationalist in April, the chorus of outrage from Republicans could not have been louder.

    … The attacks on Omar were puzzling to anyone who knew about Miller’s role pushing hard-right immigration policies in the White House, but now a Southern Poverty law Center report analyzing 900 leaked emails between Miller and staff at Breitbart news reveal that she was right all along.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/13/stephen-miller-white-nationalist-emails-ilhan-omar

    • Sabine 4.1

      I guess 'white male working class with economic anxiety ' sounds so much less threatening and ugly.

  5. The Chairman 6

    The investigation into how Budget-sensitive material was accessed at the Treasury has hit a hurdle. Yet, despite that, it is expected to be completed within or near the original budget of $250,000.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/14/909069/budget-bungle-continues

    Does anybody else find the original time frame (months) and cost of this investigation to be excessive?

  6. Adrian Thornton 7

    The Great French cyclist from the heroic era of cycle racing the eternal second Raymond Poulidor has sadly passed today. Known fondly by his legion of fan over the decades by his nick name Pou-Pou, his career (unfortunately for him) spanned the reigns of two of the greatest cyclist the world has ever known, firstly Jacques Anquetil (5 times winner of the Tour de France) and then 'The Cannibal" Eddy Merckx, regarded as the greatest all round rider in the history of the sport.

    Poulidor was adored by the public for his humble demeanor off the bike, but his ferocious fighting spirit on in the saddle, his epic shoulder to shoulder battle with Anquetil during the 1964 Tour de France on the mountains of the Puy de Dome is remembered as one of the classic stages on the history of the TdF.

    http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ai6ynbPk1qaahfxo1_1280.jpg

    The story goes that when Poulidor visited Anquetil on his death bed in 1987, Anquetil told his greatest rival the he would now have to finish second yet again.

    He will be sadly missed

  7. Robert Guyton 8

    David Suzuki says:

    "I believe that that’s the challenge: to give Nature the chance, not impose human technology, and try to manage our way into the future. Give Nature — which has had 3.8 billion years to evolve — give Nature a chance, and my hope is that she will be far more generous than we deserve."

    https://news.mongabay.com/2017/09/why-we-cant-lose-hope-dr-david-suzuki-speaks-out/

    • Sabine 8.1

      yeah, nah, not gonna change anything.

      seriously this 'give this a chance' is simply just a really cheap cop out to 'get the fuck of your lazy arse and learn how to do the same with less and if you can walk, walk'.

      • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

        Funny, characterising David Suzuki as someone offering a "cheap cop out". You'll find a reading of the whole article instructive.

        • Sabine 8.1.1.1

          well Mr. Suzuki might believe that people get out of their cars and walk, and he might even advocate for this (something i don't dispute) but 'this give nature a chance' is failing because people a. don't give nature a chance – in fact where ever they can they concrete/tar it over so they can park their cars and drive them too, and b. walking? that is for suckers. As the same people that pave everything over to park their cars only ever jog, on a well paved road.

          nature? she dying and we are doing a bang of job on killingher.

      • Pingau 8.1.2

        David Suzuki is arguing for that – to consume less and walk more. And arguing that we cannot rely on technology to save us as it is technology that got us into this mess in the first place. You want less carbon in the atmosphere? – consume less, especially fossil fuels and highly polluting products. Plant trees and allow regeneration of natural environments to take place.

  8. Peter 9

    I heard Simon Bridges talking about the news out today about discussions around TVNZ and RNZ.

    He is concerned that "Where it took an editorial line – and it inevitably would – that would become the received wisdom … a liberal democracy needs many voices that check each other."

    No doubt he is happy when the 'received' wisdom comes from big, reputable, authoritative sources with minor others presenting different voices. NZME with Hosking and co. = good, a big united TVNZ/RNZ = bad.

    voiceshttps://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403255/no-mandate-for-creating-single-public-broadcaster-simon-bridges

    • AB 9.1

      No surprises – he is routinely embarrassed on RNZ and is no friend of the platform. And structurally-speaking, it's in the right's interest to have those opinions formed inside corporate media, and sympathetic to establishment economic interests, as the dominant ones the public is exposed to. They'd drown RNZ in a bathtub if they thought they could get away with it.

      The Nats success in this endeavour requires that the public has no working concept of private power. The mantra of "sate bad, private good" requires that the state be identified as the locus of oppressive power, whereas the private is characterised as just other people like us. In reality the purpose of the state (including, the state broadcaster) is to free us from domination by private power.

  9. Macro 10

    Just a quick review of why the US are now in an Impeachment Inquiry:

    Trump%20Ukraine%20review%20Funds%20release

    • Nic the NZer 10.1

      Why are Ukraine and Russian forces in conflict? Is the Ukraine attempting to recover Crimea? Is providing more weapons to Ukraine expected to de-escelate or to escelate this situation and the military toll there?

      • Andre 10.1.1

        The conflict is the Ukraine is because Pootee is trying recover the glory days of the grand Soviet Empire by incrementally grabbing bits of former Soviet states here and there.

        That's so he can truly be a leader on the world, instead of just the head thug of a rundown trailer park with a petrol station that does double-duty as a liquor store. With nukes.

        • aom 10.1.1.1

          Actually Andre, it sounds as though Volodymyr Zelensky is getting the message that it makes more sense to talk with, or even side with Russia since its NATO sponsor has proved itself ineffectual, other than by giving tacit support to Ukraine's Nazi militias. Of course, being big on democracy, one would have thought that you would have supported the Crimean vote to join with Russia. Those matters sorted, would you care to reflect on which thug is waging war on democratic South American states that refused to be yoked by the IMF, while at the same time, creating endless mayhem in the Middle East – Putin?

        • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.2

          If your going to answer then do read the question. Several soldiers were killed this year, where were they (presumably Ukraine/Crimea). Who escellated to the point of that occurring?

          • Andre 10.1.1.2.1

            Was your question a rhetorical device that you think you already knew the answer to?

            The simple fact is in both Crimea and the Donbas, russian military forces (read up about little green men et al) made an uninvited and unwanted appearance in Ukraine territory, and are still there. There are zero Ukrainian military forces in Russian Federation territory.

            No matter how much diversionary smoke gets blown, those two simple facts make Russia the aggressor in an act of territorial expansion.

            • Nic the NZer 10.1.1.2.1.1

              So yes the Ukraine military is trying to recapture Crimea hence the casualties?

              • The Al1en

                Erm, no, the russians are on ukrainian soil outside of the annexed crimea, so more a continued defensive operation rather than an offensive push to recapture lost territory.
                Which is, of course, like a decision to ally with nato and the EU, as a sovereign nation, their self determined right.

              • Andre

                No. The current hotpots are where Russia is trying to grab part of eastern Ukraine. It's a long way away from Crimea.

      • Adrian 10.1.2

        Because the Carpathian mountains and the Balkan mountains are to the west of Ukraine and it is all flat country as the southern part of Great European Plain, right to the gates of Moscow. Even today mountain ranges and water barriers are vital for security. If the Ukraine sides more with the west then Western troops would only be hours from Moscow and with a 3000 kms open country approach that makes it very vulnerable.

        Russias only friend when invaded is winter which has saved it at least twice, once each from France and Germany.

        • Adrian Thornton 10.1.2.1

          That is a great point, not to mention that from the Russian point of view (rightly or wrongly) any defense of Russia would hinge on the Russian Black Sea Fleet being fully functional.

          Here is a good discussion on the situation of USA/Russia/Ukraine…

          Ukrainegate impeachment saga worsens US-Russia Cold War

          • Karol121 10.1.2.1.1

            Interesting (video clip) caption.

            Could it have something to do with NATO perhaps?

            surprise

            Using “but” during a telephone conversation usually implies that a condition must be met, or that there is some proviso.

            Such as; “We can, but we would want, or insist on.”

            If simply including words such as; “we would like you to”, then context can be more widely interpreted.

          • Brigid 10.1.2.1.2

            What an exceedingly wise and knowledgeable man.

            "We want to promote democracy, particularly constitutionalism, as opposed to political caprice in the former Soviet territories. That's been official Amercan policy. Why then would you support the overthrow by a street mob..there were plenty of neo-facists among them….[of] a leader who had been by all ratifying monitoring organisations freely and fairly elected.. especially when he'd agreed to move elections up within 9 months..

            Why would the United States therefore immediately, this being President Obama, support what was essentially a street coup,

            It's a blow to constitutionalism, the cause we claim to be promoting.

            That was a turning point, it was a message about what the United State was prepared to send. It was a very important moment and it was very wrong headed…

            ….Its sets a precedent for American behaviour"

            Those who as so pigheadedly Russiaphobic would do well to listen to this video and gain themselves some knowledge.

            • Karol121 10.1.2.1.2.1

              Actually Brigid, I couldn't agree with you more with regard to Russia phobia and the suggestion of manipulation in relation to interpretation pertaining to constitutional matters.

              But global dynamics will always significantly influence interpretation of a myriad of things related to ideals, both domestic and foreign.

              Russia does tend to get a hammering, but when observers can overlook a lot of the self fueled media hype, along with much of the fear mongering in relation to Russia generally, viewed in balance, it is evident that both the USA and Russia play a very interesting game of chess.

              Axiomatic, although not as economically strong as either the USA or the PRC, Russia does now to have an edge in relation to both global and regional influence which the United States of America seems to have fallen well behind on in many regions. Perhaps, in part, due to the amount of of distrust that has been created again and again, through various administrations in relation to foreign policy and influence.

              Quite sad really, when you consider that for many, the USA was once respected as a model of liberty, security and good intentions, correctly or incorrectly as the case may be.

              On the telephone wording, my point was that just a word or two out of place, or misinterpreted can change both perspective and dynamic considerably, though nothing at all may have changed in reality, or "on the ground."

        • Stuart Munro. 10.1.2.2

          And who do you suppose wants to invade Russia?

          While Putin has been in power the boot has always been on the other foot.

          • McFlock 10.1.2.2.1

            Funny how a 3000km depth makes Russia "very vulnerable", too.

            Nobody tell the Germans or the French, lol

            • Stuart Munro. 10.1.2.2.1.1

              There's some humour in the historical perspective too – the Ukraine isn't so much part of Russia – as Russia is historically part of the Ukraine.

            • Adrian 10.1.2.2.1.2

              It's width actually and width is very hard to defend as the invader has all the options and the invaded needs to be able react over in this case about 3000kms , The reason why the Normandy landings were effective as they were spread over quite a distance with numerous "feint " attacks.

            • Adrian Thornton 10.1.2.2.1.3

              @ McFlock , Are you fucking serious..26 million Russians died defending their homeland from a fascist invasion made up of various hostile European nations in World War Two….are you laughing out loud at that are you?, personally I don't find that funny at all.

              The only reason countries like NZ didn't lose twice as many men in that conflict is that the Russians had already broken the fascists back on the Eastern Fronts by the time we landed in Normandy….maybe you should show them some respect for that at least.

              • McFlock

                No, I'm laughing at you two trying to make Putin look like anything other than an aggressor who murders his political opponents.

                • Adrian Thornton

                  No that's not what you said..or laughed at

                  "Funny how a 3000km depth makes Russia "very vulnerable", too.

                  Nobody tell the Germans or the French, lol"

                  I said nothing about Putin.

                  • McFlock

                    not to mention that from the Russian point of view (rightly or wrongly) any defense of Russia would hinge on the Russian Black Sea Fleet being fully functional.

                    This would be the "defense of Russia" in 1942 that you were talking about?

                    • Adrian Thornton

                      Any leader of Russia is going to feel exactly the same about the Ukraine as part of their defense strategy, so no I am not talking about Putin, I am talking about any Russian leadership generally, and further, as I made clear, and you even quoted, I said "rightly or wrongly", so was making no defense of Putin, just pointing out a fact…don't you get the difference?

                      And yes I could have been talking about WW2, or now..that was my point.

                    • McFlock

                      Except applying it to WW2 would be factually incorrect.

                      And I'm not arguing that Russian leaders in the past have not also invaded or occupied the Ukraine. It's a recurring historical conflict.

                      But saying the equivalent of "his predecessors did it, too" is a minimisation of what Putin is doing now. Which is invading a sovereign nation.

                      You get pissy when the yanks do it, why aren't you equally outraged when the Russians do it?

    • joe90 10.2

      Disgusting pricks have gone full George Soros done did it.

      #ImpeachmentHearings

  10. Alan 11

    Year of delivery?

    Average national house price – highest ever

    Immigration – higher than last year

    • The Chairman 11.1

      The left are once again discovering Labour are the party we can count on to let us down.

      • Incognito 11.1.1

        The Chairman is once again confirming he is the commenter we can count on to put Labour down.

        Your trolling needs to stop! Alan’s comment had more substance than your lashing out. Get a grip or leave.

        • The Chairman 11.1.1.1

          I'm not trolling. I'm expressing my genuine opinion on an open forum.

          Do you have something against free speech and people expressing their political opinion?

          • Incognito 11.1.1.1.1

            Your comments @ 6, 11.1, and 11.1.2.1, have no substance, are not constructive, and don’t stimulate healthy debate. You have been trolling this site for too long IMO. Start packing your bags with your ‘free speech’ and ‘political opinion’ if you cannot or don’t want to make positive and constructive contributions to the discourse here.

          • McFlock 11.1.1.1.2

            We're just trying to help you lift your game. If we don't point out that you come across as a tory troll who delights in trying to sow alarm and despondency amongst "the left", how can you expected to rectify your inability to deliver constructive criticism instead of incessant moaning?

            Your constant failing in this regard is a blight on progressive discourse and serves only to provide comfort to tories. Hopefully our raising of this issue will help you end your track record of disappointment.

            We merely provide a public service.

      • Robert Guyton 11.1.2

        And special thanks to The Chairman for his sterling work revealing all of Labour's failings. Without his constant soulful moaning and his tireless efforts to undermine our confidence in the Labour Party, where would we be?? The Chairman puts the wet in blanket, the stick in mud and the boot into Labour at every opportunity.

        • The Chairman 11.1.2.1

          Labour via their failings undermine our confidence in them.

          • The Al1en 11.1.2.1.1

            Ironic! I have full confidence your repeated attempts to undermine them expose all your failings.

          • Incognito 11.1.2.1.2

            You only speak for yourself here! Stop your trolling!

            • In Vino 11.1.2.1.2.1

              Absolutely agree.

              I have accused Concern Troll Chairman of blowing his own cover so many times that I have given up doing so, because all he does is over-protest about how genuinely 'Left' he is, then try to spread more gloom.

              Chairman, please give in to the vast majority here, and cease your bleatings. It must be pretty obvious by now that your influence is zilch, or even the opposite of what you want.

      • solkta 11.1.3

        OMG what's that smell?

      • Adrian Thornton 11.1.4

        @The Chairman, True that, except I had no illusions going in…unfortunately.
        Don’t worry about these Labour Party sycophants, they are very easily upset, as well they should be, defending the centrist free market ideology of this New Labour Party gets harder and harder for them as it becomes more and more obvious that the project has run it’s course..straight on to the rocks…hence their hysterical out bursts at any dissent.

        • weka 11.1.4.1

          If you can't tell the difference between people fucked off at someone trashing an online community, and political sycophancy, maybe your political analysis isn't up to scratch either. I can't see anyone in this thread that objects to useful critique of Labour (don't know Alan). Lots of regulars here don't even vote Labour.

          I don't quite have my moderator hat on, but you may as well know I'm getting annoyed at the bullshit going on in comments like this. Have a go at the politics. When you start spraying shit around about fellow commenters, you'll get moderator attention.

          • Adrian Thornton 11.1.4.1.1

            I happen to agree with lot's of the critique's that The Chairman levels at Labour..that is what a political forum is for…the way The Standard is going you lot are going to be talking to each other in an extremely small box soon (and in case you haven't noticed it's getting pretty close to that now), and the echoes will probably start to hurt even your ears..or maybe not.

            When was the last time you came on here and defended me when the piles of shit get sprayed at me…I will tell when..never thats when.

            I will say what I believe on The Standard when and how I want, so don't threaten me, unless you are prepared to threaten the commenters who attack me for my political positions the same way.

            [you know how this works. So consider this a formal warning. There two moderators who consider TC a liability for the site and it has absolutely nothing to do with his politics. It’s about his pattern of behaviour. It doesn’t matter if you agree with that or not, other than how that affects what you post and whether that gets moderator attention.

            You can say and do whatever you like here, but don’t complain when you get moderated for breaking the rules and ignoring what moderators say. If you are getting harrassed, please let me or one of the other mods know. We don’t all read everything on site.

            Commenting is at a low point at the moment, in terms of numbers. Maybe in terms of content as well. My long experience both here and elsewhere online is that the one sure thing that will put people off is shit fights instead of debate. Both Incognito and I are putting too much time into fighting stupid fires at the moment. I’d rather be writing posts. Posts will always take precedent over comments, for obvious reasons.

            I’m running out of patience for explaining all this to long term commenters who should know better and who still don’t take notice when it’s spelled out for them. Fastest way to get a ban is to waste moderator time. – weka]

            • Incognito 11.1.4.1.1.1

              There’s a difference between warning and threatening.

              Please give a sign to moderators when you feel someone is personally attacking you instead of your political position. I concur that these lines blur all too often but we are not omniscient nor omnipresent.

            • weka 11.1.4.1.1.2

              mod note above.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1.4.1.1.3

              IMHO the main problem with The Chairman critiquing left-leaning political party policies/MPs is that The Chair is not commenting in good faith.

              Until The Chairman increases the ratio of their 'comments critical of right-leaning parties' to 'comments critical left-leaning parties' (in Government or opposition), I'll continue to believe that they are a concern troll bent on promoting National party kleptocrat attack lines.

              The ratio of The Chairman's ‘anti-right’ comments to "relentlessly soggy" ‘anti-left’ comments currently stands at about 1 in 1000, so they wouldn't need to do much to bolster their "lefty" "more left than most" credentials. Or they can continue to reap the rewards of being "as transparent as a transparent thing".

              • solkta

                So transparent that you could pin some tentacles on him and call him a jellyfish.

              • Siobhan

                " the ratio of their 'comments critical of right-leaning parties' to 'comments critical left-leaning parties' "

                I too am 'guilty' of this Thought Crime.

                I almost never comment on The Republicans, the Tories or National…simply because they are not the parties, nor do they have philosophies, that I have any interest in as they simply stand for everything I abhor..

                In other words, to my mind, it goes without saying that I object to their actions. And complaining about them would be pointless.

                I do regularly criticise NZ Labour, NZ Greens, the Centrist arm of UK Labour and the Democrats regularly..simply because they are parties that I feel are best able to deliver change and create equality..and their failure to enact real progres is a daily disappointment.

                There are a number of people on this site I would consider 'trolls' on the basis of their abusive tone, The Chairman is not one of them.

                And if he is a concern troll, which I very much doubt, then credit where credit is due, his arguments and comments are better thought out and far more considered than many folk around here…

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Have my doubts – until The Chair can just once bring themself to refer to "Jacinda" as PM Ardern, we'll have to agree to disagree re their motives.

            • The Chairman 11.1.4.1.1.4

              The way The Standard is going you lot are going to be talking to each other in an extremely small box soon (and in case you haven't noticed it's getting pretty close to that now), and the echoes will probably start to hurt even your ears..or maybe not.

              Indeed, Adrian. Could explain the increase in comments over at the Daily Blog. Although, I suspect Save NZ posting there (were they banned from here?) has also helped in lifting the numbers commenting over there.

              On a side note, thanks again for your support. Sorry it got you a warning.

              • Incognito

                FYI, last time SaveNZ had been banned for 6 months for making deliberate defamatory comments and putting the site at legal risk. TDB can have them and keep them, thanks.

    • Peter 11.2

      I've been reading some blog sites attacking Ardern. It seems her hopes to do something about mental health services haven't been fulfilled either. Maybe a good election result might do something for the symptoms even if the underlying problems aren't sorted.

  11. Matiri 12

    Here in Murchison at the top pf the South Island we have had an unusually wet spring with weeks and weeks of rain. The slugs are playing havoc with my vegetable garden.

    More concerning than my slug problem, this week has seen the closure of SH6 north of Murchison, for several days due to torrential rain causing a series of slips involving enormous rocks. SH6 reopened at 1pm today, however there has just been another rockfall closing SH6 south of Murchison, which hit a vehicle. Sadly it is reported someone has died.

    We are going to more of these weather events causing havoc with the infrastructure that we all take for granted.

    • marty mars 12.1

      Yep agree. We always stop in Murch on the way down the island – good spot.

    • weka 12.2

      Controversial opinion but I think there are quite a few places in NZ that need to plan around not having road access at times. A big quake will do that so we should be thinking about this anyway, but I'm not sure how many people have gotten to grips yet with the huge cost of regular big slips from rain. I don't know if this is solvable in the long term by constructing roads in different places, but in the short and medium term it seems like something we may as well get used to and plan for.

      • weka 12.2.1

        Food supply lines shouldn't be too hard, but jobs are going to be a tough one for people that travel a lot. Maybe we should be relocalising economies too, for this and all the good reasons, and moving away from a driving culture.

  12. Karol121 13

    This global warming matter, and responses to it.

    The solution could be as simple as a few mandatory forms filed online, and a direct debit authority.

    We entrust our political leaders and government generally to find solutions to daunting problems when there is a crisis or serious issue of some sort. Yes?

    So. Just as with tobacco related issues, foreign speculation fueling the rise of housing costs and property market values, and like so many other things that political government especially seems to need to respond to, the following could be the ultimate solution by governments regionally and internationally:

    Firstly. Express concerns via the internet and with some street protests and marches.

    Secondly. Go back to doing what you ordinarily do.

    Thirdly. Sit back and relax.

    BECAUSE THEY CAN JUST TAX GLOBAL WARMING OUT OF EXISTENCE

  13. AB 14

    A useful primer on Latin American coups if you've got the time or interest in it. Bananas in 1954, lithium in 2019. Time and technology moves on, but some things are constant. It is after all true what we learnt in Sunday school – that it's the love of money that turns humans into evil, sadistic chimps. (apologies to chimps)

    • Karol121 14.1

      But where would we be without it AB? Money, that is.

      Actually, money is one of the best indicators in relation to people's position, disposition, behavior, perception and so many other things.

      It really seems to be a reflection of general human behavior in relation to it's acquisition, disposal (what it is spent on), how it is managed or mismanaged, and how well it can be used with which to manipulate.

      It is almost a mirror.

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