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Open mike 14/02/2015

Written By: - Date published: 7:15 am, February 14th, 2015 - 149 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

149 comments on “Open mike 14/02/2015 ”

  1. happy valentines day – everyone..


  2. les 2

    looks familiar…’The second change with personalization is that it’s not just entertainers whose PR crews carefully hone an image of ordinariness. It is now much more apparent in politicians, Nigel Farage being an obvious example. Widely publicised photographs of Farage holding a pint of beer conform to an older tradition in election-time iconography. But more sinister is his tactic of appearing humbly and “amusingly” tongue-tied at least once in most of his filmed appearances (a habit proven winsome by Bush and, subsequently, Boris Johnson).’ from a critique of R.Hoggarts…’The Uses of Literacy’.

  3. Paul 3

    The Herald have been pimping this finance billionaire for a while.
    Now we find out that Bill English has been helping make moment of of education in New Zealand.

    ‘An American equity fund manager who wants to open charter schools in New Zealand was introduced to Ngai Tahu leaders by Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Bill English.’

    This country continues to slide further and further downhill.


    • David H 3.1

      And the NZ education system ends up as an. If you can pay, your child will be educated system. Free education killed off within 9 years by the NACTS. Really makes me want to meet an NACT Polly in a dark alley one night. Charter Schools what a nightmare. I really do worry about what sort of world my son will grow up in.

      • music4menz 3.1.1

        Not sure what the link is between ‘If you can pay, your child will be educated…’ and your reference to charter schools. Charter schools are not fee paying.

        Your statement that ‘Free education killed off within 9 years by the NACT’ isn’t true either. Are you claiming that state education was free at the end of the last Labour government but is fee-paying now? Really.

        You also seem to have a few personal issues with aggro if you are making threats about meeting ‘an NACT Polly in a dark alley one night.’

        I think posters here on the Standard have been banned for far less than threatening fellow NZers with violence.

      • freedom 3.1.2

        “Charter Schools what a nightmare. ”

        That’s a bit harsh. 😉 Charter Schools or Partnership Schools (CS/PS) are not the issue.
        Poorly planned, poorly run Charter Schools and Partnership Schools certainly are.

        CS/PS ;
        ;receiving per child funding of up to seven times that of State Schools are a problem.
        ;not answerable to the same education standards as State Schools are a problem.
        ;not answerable to the Official Information Act are a problem.
        ;not answerable to the Ombudsman are a problem.
        ;not having to report the same information as State Schools are a problem.

        But Charter Schools or Partnership Schools as an idea are fine. They already exist throughout NZ and have done so for many years in many different forms and have regularly proven to be successful and popular. Those that existed before 2008 seem to have two major differences to the new bunch though. Firstly they are more closely aligned to the reporting, standards, accountability, protocols and the funding levels of State Schools. The other, more important difference would be those Schools were set up to help educate kids, not simply profit off them.

  4. Paul 4

    Doctors in NZ and Australia demand transparency over the TPPA.

    ‘But despite a letter published today in The Lancet — and signed by 27 health leaders in Australasia as well as the US, Canada, Malaysia and Chile — Trade Minister Tim Groser this afternoon reaffirmed the Government’s stance of not releasing controversial TPP negotiating documents.’

    A government of the corporates, for the corporates, by the corporates.


    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.1

      @Paul. Dr Monasterio has explained very clearly the potential impact of TPPA on this country in the Herald article.

      “Otago University senior clinical lecturer Dr Erik Monasterio, one of the co-lead authors of the letter, claimed the agreement threatened governmental ability to deliver affordable health care and legislate to protect public health and reduce health inequities.

      “And all the while, the text is shrouded in secrecy,” he said.

      “The negotiations are not about the way most of us think of trade — you and me buying and selling things.

      “Instead they are protecting the massive investment profits of multinational companies that are bigger than the whole New Zealand economy.”

      Dr Monasterio described the TPP as “an unprecedented expansion” of intellectual property rights that would “push up the cost of affordable and life-saving medicines, hitting hardest the already vulnerable households in New Zealand and other countries such as Vietnam and Malaysia”.

      He also feared governments could be sued for protecting health — but governments cannot sue back.

      “This will stop important health initiatives on tobacco, alcohol, the obesity epidemic, climate change, antibiotic resistance, and other major future challenges,” he said.”

      And this, folks, is just one aspect of the TPPA.

      NZ could be sued by mining corporations if we make laws that prevent them from exploiting our environment.

      Here is an example of how Investor-State Dispute Settlements work from the Canadian NAFTA experience.

      “Quebec Fracking Ban Lawsuit Shows Perils Of Free Trade Deals:
      OTTAWA – Free trade critics say a $250-million damage suit being pursued as a result of Quebec’s moratorium on fracking is proof Canada needs to be careful in negotiating trade pacts around the world.

      The Council of Canadians, the Sierra Club and Quebec-based Eau secours say the suit by Lone Pine Resources Inc. (TSX:LPR) shows that trade deals that include investor protection clauses are a bad idea because they can prevent governments from passing laws to protect the environment.

      The groups are asking Lone Pine to drop the suit before a NAFTA panel, but company president Tim Granger says he is going ahead unless Quebec lifts its moratorium on fracking for natural gas under the St. Lawrence River.

      “As an organization we, in good faith, purchased leases, we paid rentals and then to just have been stymied, that’s not acceptable,” he said in an interview.”

      Is this what we want for NZ? Wake up NZ!!

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.1.1

        If you, like me, are concerned about the loss of sovereignty if the TPPA contains an Investor-State Dispute Settlement clause, then the following article will show you are not alone.
        The following link is to a scholarly study carried out to assess the impact of ISDS rules on environmental regulation with respect to the TTIP (a parallel Trade agreement to TPPA between US and EU.)

        “Investor-state Dispute Settlement under TTIP – a Risk for Environmental Regulation?”
        Rules on ISDS in TTIP could have a chiling effect on environmental regulation in the EU and the US”

        “The authors conclude that rules on ISDS are not necessary in an agreement between two highly evolved, rule of law legal systems. By contrast, such rules create significant risks for environmental regulation, because of the broad wording of investment rules and the largely unpredictable manner in which they are interpreted by investment tribunals. States may have to compensate investors for taking legitimate environmental measures. The study recommends not to include such rules in TTIP”


        It is well worth flicking through the full report.

    • Rodel 4.2

      Chomsky says the US was unhappy to lose control of China in 1949 when they became independent so the US felt that they no longer controlled all of the world and now US corporations want the TTPA established mainly to isolate China and minimize its influence in the world of commerce. China is apparently not included in the TPPA even though it is a major Pacific country.
      Is Chomsky wrong?


  5. gsays 5

    morena all,
    i have a request of the standard community.
    i have a frame for a hoarding on a busy rural road in the “armpit of the manawatu”

    i want to put a short, straight forward message on it, to act as a seed in the minds of those who read it.

    ideally the message would be unifying, apolitical, and not a single issue (pollution, economy, food politics.

    for example bill hicks “it’s just a ride” is spot on but too abstract and needs context.

    thanx in advance for any suggestions.

    • Change, please.

      Who Do You Love?

      Future Now

      • phillip ure 5.1.1

        @ trp..

        a).. beggars’-pitch..

        b)..ad for dating site..

        c)..exemplar of tired political-cliche..(with disturbing tinges of dun(ne)..

        ..of course i wd go with ‘stop eating animals- why doncha..?’..

        ..or..’end poverty/inequality – now..!’

        ..of course dunne has polluted both of those words – as stirring calls to action – for the forseeable future..

        ..both ‘future’ and ‘united’..

        ..it’s a shame..’cos they were good words..

        ..before he beiged all over them..

    • weka 5.2

      “i want to put a short, straight forward message on it, to act as a seed in the minds of those who read it.

      ideally the message would be unifying, apolitical, and not a single issue (pollution, economy, food politics.”

      What is the purpose of the billboard, gsays? If it’s not political and you want it to reach everyone in a way that brings them together, what is the intended result?

      • gsays 5.2.1

        hi tracey,
        as bill hicks says, if we realize we are all one, we will not keep building nuclear weapons.

        to get folx to aspire to higher ideals.
        to perhaps get them to throw off some of their self imposed chains (money, being left or right wing, sexuality).

        when we realize and act as we are one, it will not matter what lying prime ministers say and do.

    • Colonial Rawshark 5.3

      1) He who dies with the most toys…
      2) A life of caring is a life of meaning
      3) We are stronger working together.
      4) Co-operation not competition.
      5) Human freedom not market freedom.

    • Incognito 5.4

      One grass seed does not make a field.

      One grass seed can make a field.

    • freedom 5.5

      or JUST MORE SPIN ?

      WHO GOT THE $$$ ??

      and it would be remiss of me not to add the message now appearing on billboards and buildings and highway signs in many parts of the world

      GOOGLE WTC 7


      • Colonial Rawshark 5.5.1

        LOLOLOLOL very nice haha!

      • phillip ure 5.5.2

        @ freedom..

        ..’wtc 7′..


      • gsays 5.5.3

        cheers freedom, i am right with you ref wtc 7, however as i have found when you dip your toes in that pool, people seem real fixed in their thinking and are quick to pigeon hole you, (and therefore ‘know’ what you are about).

        i was accused of being right wing last time i was involved in a 12/9 discussion here on t.s.

    • JanM 5.6

      *Who do you belong to?

      *He tangata, he tangata, he tangata

      *Who do you trust?

    • “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one” (Einstein)
      “The secret of getting ahead is getting started” (Mark Twain)
      “If you are going through hell, keep going” (Churchill)

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 5.8

      Community must exist for NZ to thrive

      The common wealth of this country needs to benefit us all

      8 hour working day, 40 hour working week

    • Molly 5.9

      Depending on your size. I’m thinking you need a series of signs, with a little bit of humour and pertinent points.

      An easy theme is to do it in the style of upcoming television shows, and change the sign monthly. People – even if they don’t agree – will be watching for the next one.

      Eg. coming soon:
      Sabin’s Heroes – with a picture of Key as Sgt. Schulz – I know nuzzink!
      Groucho Marx – with sign about not wanting to be a member of the club etc.

      I’ve been out shopping, and am totally non creative at present but the book covers/posters being posted pre election would have a few good ideas.

      • gsays 5.9.1

        cheers molly,
        that gave me a good chuckle.
        nothing wrong with being current.

        in my heart of hearts i know, being the character i am, i will do this once and that will be it.

        after all i am talking about a big bit of plywood, painting it white, putting on slogan and (as they say on tv) walk away.

        love the images you have put in my mind.

        • Molly

          hi gsays,

          I get where you are coming from… so perhaps the most pertinent for the Manawatu crowd would be –
          A Tui kind of graphic along the lines of:

          Government debt:
          2008 $18 billion
          2015 $100 billion

          Good economic manager – Yeah, right!

          On reflection, that approach could be used for highlighting a number of issues.
          One hour a week counted as employed – Yeah, right
          Legislation pass under urgency – yeah, right
          Iraq because we care – …
          Dirty Politics is OK because “everyone” does it …
          TPPA is secret because it is so good – …
          We do not collect data on ordinary NZers – ….
          I don’t ackshully remember what my office was told – ….

  6. Philip Ferguson 6

    Gay liberation and marxism on Redline. I’ve collected the articles we’ve had on the blog together. They’re mainly about gay marriage, because that’s been the dominant issue in the three years-plus since the Redline blog started, but there’s also a feature one on the 1986 law reform and there’s also one by an Irish gay activist questioning whether gay *liberation* is served by what he sees as mimicking straight, middle class values.

    The collection of articles is here: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/02/14/marxism-and-gay-liberation-on-redline/


  7. Philip Ferguson 7

    Very good piece by Otago University professor Richard Jackson on war propaganda, ‘terrorism’ and minimal journalistic standards in NZ:


    • ianmac 7.1

      Thanks Phil. Amazing collection of very significant questions. I have been trying to imagine such questions addressed to John Key but really, I come up blank. A straight answer? Never!

  8. freedom 8


    WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ???



    -reply patiently awaiting moderation of course but I will say this here & now-

    I for one am very confused by the ongoing actions of TDB host. He is apparently on some crusade to attack the vitality and diversity of discussion here at The Standard. For some reason, offering a common platform to people with differing points of view is a bad thing.

    Is it really so damaging to the left to admit that within its ranks are those who think hitting people solves problems? This is not exactly news!

    • tc 8.1

      Somebody help them find the plot because they seem to have lost it.

    • weka 8.2

      Bomber as a passionate man with a big ego that’s been publicly humiliated by the alpha male (Lynn) and reacting in kind (or trying to). Now O’Dea taking his ban from ts personally and spreading lies and conspiracy. Macho politics, it’s probably not a bad reflection of what happens further up the chain, and it shows us how far we still have to go in terms of basic human relations and power.

      • marty mars 8.2.1

        both of them are just ego-wanking themselves into frenzy – i’ve got very little respect for their lines or motivation now

      • freedom 8.2.2

        “it shows us how far we still have to go in terms of basic human relations and power.” this can not be said strongly enough right now

        Yet to mention it is to invite pyromaniacs to light up the tumbleweeds of opportunity rolling through this ramshackle town we call Democracy.

        -Have enjoyed watching the scifi show Defiance. The community of diverse species shows humanity is basically really lousy at resolving problems of power dynamics.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.3

      And Bradbury has misidentified The Standard as “Labour’s online voice”. As he must know better I assume he’s done that on purpose.

      • weka 8.3.1

        +1. Which makes him not to be trusted 🙁

      • phillip ure 8.3.2

        i find it quite strange that bradbury labels the standard as ‘labour’..(with the underlying-sneer they are more ‘conservative’ than radical him..)

        ..yet i am allowed to comment here..and i (and others) are very far from ‘labour’..

        ..and my comments wd be radical/challenging to many labour people..(worshipping clark as many do..as just one example.)..

        ..yet they are allowed/discussed..

        ..whereas any time i have attempted to post a comment @ the daily blog..that criticises the ‘voice’ there..

        ..it is censored out…

        ..funny that..!

        ..and/but actually i wd like the main-combatants to ‘get a room together’..

        ..and sort it all out..

        ..it is all far too much like that palestinian-schism scene in monty python..

        ..it is far too close to that for comfort..

        ..to my mind..

        ..and all just a bit silly…

        …we are all..after all..pretty much marching in the same direction..eh..?

    • TheContrarian 8.4

      I have, and always have had, had a particular distaste for Bradbury. He’s an arrogant blowhard. While Lynn is also an arrogant blowhard he is far more reasonable, approachable and allows for someone to call him an arrogant blowhard without moderating the comments out.

      Martyn can fuck right off.

      • freedom 8.4.1

        The site is becoming an echo chamber and has driven away a lot of good authors.
        and as for those stupid thumbs -i used to bother, now I just hit them randomly

  9. Shane Le Brun 9

    So time for my weekly Medpot blog post, this time as a rebuttal to the templated response email received from my Nelson Electorate MP on the issue.


    Alternate address for the beige haters. 🙂

    • weka 9.1

      “beige haters”? Not a good way to encourage people to read your blog 🙁

      • phillip ure 9.1.1

        @ weka..

        ..wd u like any attempts @ humour leeched out of this place..?

        ..and ‘beige-hater’ is an accurate description of those who recoil in horror @ the beige-one…


        • Shane Le Brun

          There is not too many who use the alternate address, maybe a dozen a post, but the more people the merrier. Being completely independent of PG means I can call Phil and co’s distaste as they see it. 🙂

          • marty mars

            shane if you post on his site you are not ‘completely independent’ imo. I’ve had a look at the facebook page – that is a good place to get your message out. If you keep posting on petes blog I won’t read your stuff, because no matter what you are saying, where you say it matters – at least to me.

            • Shane Le Brun

              Hence the alternative location I provide as per criticisms recieved here. I chose YourNZ as it was neither left nor right, no adds, and he was supportive of my position on Medpot, I also tried at the standard etc, but no reply…. I have never met PG personally, and didn’t follow blogs until I needed to get on one, so was not privy to the stirring that occurs over here at the standard. I also have total ownership of my own material that is never edited, and can reblog to my hearts content, unlike the restrictive conditions offered when I tried to Bombers blog……………….

              • @ shane..

                “..I chose YourNZ as it was neither left nor right..’

                um..!..heads up..!

                ..part of the reason the beige-one wears so much vitriol..

                ..is because he attempts that canard…

                ..the beige-one is right..be quite clear about that..

                ..i mean..he was a dunne-disciple..(just that is ‘enough’..)

                ..and while i welcome as many voices as possible speaking up on this issue..

                ..from left or right…

                ..tying yrslf to the s.s. beige..

                ..must paint you in that camp..

                ..and that compounded by being under that tatty/shabby-beige-flag..

                ..so your call..

                ..b.t.w..it has crossed my mind you are him..

                ..but he doesn’t have the intelligence to create yr backstory..

                ..and he has no history of pushing the green..

                …(the colour is probably too bright/jarring for him..)

                • Pete George

                  “and he has no history of pushing the green”

                  Showing your ignorance Phil. Or making things up.

                  I’m on record campaigning for it in the 2011 election, and one condition for standing for UF was to be able to promote a cannabis debate. See Cannabis deserves a decent debate

                  Since then I’ve discussed possible ways to address it with Greens and with ALCP.

                  Perhaps you should stop making things up based on ignorance and petty prejudice.

                  • yeah that’s right..yr a drug-warrior..

                    ..i forgot..

                    ..there was that article back in 2011..

                    • Pete George

                      I sounded out a wide range of people last year for a social media campaign on it. But the timing wasn’t right due to things moving the wrong way with synthetics, and no party wanted to get into it before the election.

                      If things keep muddling along disjointedly then we’ll arrive at the 2017 election with neither Greens not Labour wanting to risk being too strongly associated with cannabis reform, If they don’t get into Government in 2011 then it could be six years at the earliest before anything could start to happen, and without public pressure Labour/Greens are no going to rush into anything either.

                      So something has to be generated outside the parties to compel them to at least address medical use.

                      I know that all the main bloggers support change – Slater, Farrar, Brown, Bradbury and some if not most here.

                      Imagine what could be achieved by a non-partisan campaign being pushed across the social media spectrum.

                      However it’s likely too many would prefer petty personal battles rather than trying to achieve something.

                      To make something happen it needs concerted public pressure.

                      Would you work with me on it?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The timing wasn’t right due to widespread contempt for me, because everyone knows I’m the way to make your project fail. FIFY, Wormtongue.

                    • Pete George

                      Ah, yeah OAB, about the only thing you’ve managed here is irony. What you actually hope to achieve isn’t apparent?

                      You must have some sort of end result in mind. Or is it just ongoing attempts of futility, but it’s not just your nest you keep shitting in?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Did you suddenly become a moderator here, Wormtongue? Who’s nest are you a guest in?

                      The job of countering racist liars is never done, more’s the pity.

                    • “..Would you work with me on it?..?

                      ..i already do..’work on it’..

                      ..have been for quite some time


                    • since january last yr i have posted 215 stories/links/evidence on this issue..

                    • Pete George

                      Isolated blog bubbles of activity aren’t achieving anything significant.

                      Would you work with others on a wider campaign?

                    • f.f.s…p.g..

                      ..u said u want to get sites to work on this issue..

                      ..i am just saying you can cross me off yr list of people u need to talk to..

                      ..as i am already doing just that..

                      ..if anyone wants to trawl thru my massive archive/cache on this subject for material to use..

                      ..anyone is welcome to do that..

                      ..i can’t see what else i can do..

                      ..and the fact is the winds of change are already blowing..

                      ..but these arseholes (the nats) won’t do anything about it..

                      ..it will need a change of govt. to achieve any change..

                      ..it ain’t gonna happen until that happens..

                    • Pete George

                      Yeah well if you don’t want to try anything different for three years and then hope something will suddenly and miraculously happen because there’s some stuff on some blogs then good luck with that.

              • “..the restrictive conditions offered when I tried to Bombers blog..”

                what were those ‘conditions’..?

                • Shane Le Brun

                  all posts belong to TDB, no reblogging, and all must be original, so I couldnt use pre existing stuff, and seeing as the political right are the people who need there minds changed being stuck on a far left blog wouldnt suit my long term aims.

  10. tracey 10

    if ever the PM was simply encapsulated in his own words while showing why he his understanding of the world he lives in makes him the wrong person to lead a nation it was here

    “… Key said there had been strong interest from iwi groups and he would be “amazed” if the likes of the Salvation Army were hesitant to get involved if they saw a way to make money off the investment…” stuff.co.nz 14 Feb 2015 article by hamish rutherford

    note charities are legally forbidden from pursuing a profit motive. Read the Act…

    • tc 10.1

      Which of course none of the msm puppets pick up on and take him to task over as they lack both the knowledge and direction from their bosses to take him on.

      More of those higher standards.

    • gsays 10.2

      hi tracey, “… Key said there had been strong interest from iwi groups and he would be “amazed” if the likes of the Salvation Army were hesitant to get involved if they saw a way to make money off the investment…”

      this always makes me feel very uncomfortable, the kiwi build up a property portfolio and profit from being a landlord.

      business wise you are discouraged from retrofitting insulation, dealing with damp rooms etc.

      cue responses of ‘an insulated dry dwelling can attract a higher rental’ market driven drivel.

  11. Clashman 11

    whats happened to the “feeds”? 4 days old now.

  12. fisiani 12

    In Scotland there is an acronym in football, WATP.
    Some say it means We Are The People, but actually it means We Are Third Place.

    • @ the standard there is an acronym..

      ..it is..i.f.a.f..(pronounced ‘eye-faff’..)

      ..which stands for ‘isn’t fisi a fuckwit’..

    • tc 12.2

      For rangers supporters that will always be the dream now, behind Celtic and Aberdeen if they’re lucky. Once mighty now a basket case with sharks circling.

  13. joe90 13

    Robert Reich follows up on the sharing economy.

    My recent column about the growth of on-demand jobs like Uber making life less predictable and secure for workers unleashed a small barrage of criticism that workers get what they’re worth in the market.

    A Forbes Magazine contributor, for example, writes that jobs exist only “when both employer and employee are happy with the deal being made.” So if the new jobs are low-paying and irregular, too bad.

    Much the same argument was voiced in the late nineteenth century over alleged “freedom of contract.” Any deal between employees and workers was assumed to be fine if both sides voluntarily agreed to it.


  14. Penny Bright 14

    In my considered opinion, Pat O’Dea should not have been banned from The Standard.

    What you do with this comment is up to you – but I will call it as I see it.

    You don’t have to like it

    So be it.

    Penny Bright

    • marty mars 14.1

      look at what he is doing now on tdb – I’m embarrassed for him, I thought he was better than that but…

      and i’m sad that a Mana spokesperson has such little idea of how to interact with this blog – it’s not that difficult really it’s not and now his personal and spokesperson ideas are not here because of what? ego? pride? fucked if I know but it is all self inflicted imo

    • You left much the same comment two weeks ago, Penny, but it’s nice to see you’ve lightened up on the passive-aggressive digs at my employer.

      Open mike 02/02/2015

      Saying “what you do with this comment is up to you” does, however, come across as a bit of an “I dare you to ban me!!!!” given how your previous, far snider comment was, and remains, published.

      • phillip ure 14.2.1


        ..bite that tongue harder..!

        [Stephanie: I’m assuming this is meant in a joking way, phil, but given our previous interactions I don’t think it’s appropriate or clear what you actually mean.]

        • marty mars

          get over it tiger and put your energy into more productive stuff ffs

        • phillip ure

          (seeing as you asked..)

          it means that i have quite a strong opinion on this..(the initial banning..)

          ..but the power imbalance means if i voice it..you will ban me..

          ..hence i am ‘biting my tongue’..

          ..so i guess it is my version of a silent-protest..a turning of the back..

          ..signifying that my silence does not mean agreement..

          .(hope that clarifies that..)

          • Stephanie Rodgers

            This is utter, utter bullshit, phil. People – quite obviously given Penny’s multiple comments questioning Pat O’Dea’s ban – do not get banned merely “for disagreeing.”

            And nobody would ever take your “silence” (please note, leaving snide comments is the opposite of silence) as agreeing with anything the moderators do here.

            • phillip ure

              “..do not get banned merely “for disagreeing.”..”


              ..i think the initial banning of pat o’dea was unjustified..

              ..i think you interpreted what he said incorrectly..

              ..and it escalated from there..

              ..i think he was/is a dick in his reaction..

              ..and to my mind this one follows the pattern of the banning of bad..

              ..(even tho’ i battled with him..i wd like him back..he had much intelligent comment to make..)

              ..yes..he also over-reacted as it escalated..

              ..but i see that largely his reaction to what he felt was a totally unjustified initial censure/miss-reading of his words/intent..

              ..much as what pat has done…is doing..

              ..that is why i oppose the initial banning of pat..

              • Thanks for confirming what I’ve always suspected: that you’re happy to make excuses for someone who was 100% vile, abusive, aggressive and persistent in posting abuse well past their ban date, as long as you can convince yourself and others that I ~provoked them~. Because that’s not a completely predictable method men have used for generations to shut a woman up. 🙄

                • “..Because that’s not a completely predictable method men have used for generations to shut a woman up..”

                  ..why bring gender into it..?..where did that come from..?

                  ..yr gender is irrelevant in this case..it the moderating-decisions that are being discussed..

                  ..i made clear that i did not agree with the escalation of both bad and pat..

                  ..i was talking about the initial-misunderstanding that is common to both..

                  ..and you see absolutely no possibility that you ‘got it wrong’ in either of those cases..?

                  ..(‘wrong’ in yr initial-assesment..i am not talking about the escalations..)

                  ..you see no chance of that having happened..?

                  • My gender comes into it when there’s a clear pattern of my moderation (and other women mods, like karol) being questioned, second-guessed, and ignored while male moderators’ dictates get respected. My gender comes into it when people like you demand the publication of abusive, misogynist comments to “prove” that “justice was done” when bad12 was banned.

                    And my gender comes into it when there’s literally centuries’ worth of feminist thought outlining how men undermine women and blame them for men’s actions, and your comments fit all those phenomena to a T.

                    • right ho..!

                      ..throws hands in air..

                      ..and walks off..

                      factcheck:..i did not ask for the ‘publication’ of anything..let alone ‘demand it’..

                      ..where on earth did you get that from..?

                      (and how can this not be an example of ‘getting it wrong’..

                      ..you have accused me of something that is a total fiction..)

                      ..i asked you if there was any chance you misunderstood what was initially said..that was all..

                      ..i made the point repeatedly i was not talking about the escalations..from either..

                      ..and that i think/thought they were both dicks in that escalation..(i think this is the third time i have said that..)

                      ..and you will note how polite i am..

                      ..and is penny also questioning for ‘gender-reasons’..is she..?

                      ..i mean..c;mon..!

                      ..she feels an injustice was done..in the initial judgement of what was said..and i agree with her..

                      ..gender does not come within a bulls-roar of this..

                      ..and i think i will/shd now return to my previous biting-tongue mode..

                      ..there is so much more i wd like to say..but shouldn’t..

                      ..and y’know..!..if you are constantly looking for seagulls..

                      ..you’ll probably get to see quite a few..


                    • and f.w.i.w..

                      ..i don’t know pat o’dea well..

                      ..but from what i have seen of him..i do not doubt he is a man of integrity/sincerity..

                      ..and his long history of political actions on.for ‘our’ side..confirms that..

          • tracey

            noun: silence; plural noun: silences

            complete absence of sound.
            “sirens pierce the silence of the night”
            synonyms: quietness, quiet, quietude, still, stillness, hush, tranquillity, noiselessness, soundlessness, peace, peacefulness, peace and quiet
            “the sound of falling stones broke the silence of the night”
            antonyms: sound, noise
            the fact or state of abstaining from speech.
            “Karen had withdrawn into sullen silence”
            synonyms: speechlessness, wordlessness, voicelessness, dumbness, muteness; More
            taciturnity, reticence, uncommunicativeness, unresponsiveness
            “she was reduced to silence”
            antonyms: speech, loquacity
            the avoidance of mentioning or discussing something.
            “politicians keep their silence on the big questions”
            synonyms: secretiveness, secrecy, reticence, taciturnity, uncommunicativeness, concealment
            “politicians keep their silence on the big issues”
            antonyms: communication, communicativeness
            a short appointed period of time during which people stand still and do not speak as a sign of respect for a dead person or group of people.
            “the game was preceded by a two-minute silence in his memory”

            verb: silence; 3rd person present: silences; past tense: silenced; past participle: silenced; gerund or present participle: silencing

            cause to become silent; prohibit or prevent from speaking.
            “she was silenced by the Inspector’s stern look”
            synonyms: quieten, quiet, hush, shush, still; More

          • marty mars

            “..but the power imbalance means if i voice it..you will ban me..”

            go and check the link out again and see who did the banning phil

            You are smarting about the comments made on the thread re weka/shane.

            ffs at least be honest with yourself

            • phillip ure

              “..You are smarting about the comments made on the thread re weka/shane…”

              sorry..i haven’t a clue what u r talking about..

              ..cd u point at what i am meant to be ‘smarting’ about..?


              .at the moment..i am ‘smarting’-free..eh..?

              ..should i ‘steel’ myself..?

            • phillip ure

              “.. and see who did the banning phil..”..yes..someone else banned after the escalation..

              ..but the brouhaha started with that misunderstanding with stephanie..to my memory..

              ..if i am incorrect..i will withdraw that..but i am pretty sure i am right..

              • The “brouhaha” started with Pat making a comment in clear breach of TS policy.

                Unless of course you mean I started it all by daring to publish a post which provoked the poor, innocent man into breaking the rules, and then persisting in breaking them after a moderator advised him not to. Given the tenor of every comment you’ve ever made on my moderation, I wouldn’t be surprised. 🙄

                • weka

                  as an aside to this conversation, Stephanie, can you please clarify if this comment was moved from another thread to OM?

                  Open mike 02/02/2015

                  I think there is some confusion about why O’Dea got banned, and some of that confusion comes from how he got banned (the rest comes from people assuming he was banned for content, which is just daft).

                  Not that it matters (I don’t think it has to be visible to readers, nor that moderators have to justify decisions), and it won’t help in regards to people like phil, but it was one of the unclearer moderations I’ve seen and it took me a while to figure it out (the pattern of behaviour that prompted Lynn to ban).

                  • I’m pretty sure the genesis of the ban of pat stemmed from this thread and series of comments

                    The Northland by-election

                    sure new commenters need latitude but the onus is on them to learn the rules – end of story.

                    • weka

                      Thanks marty. That’s what I was thinking, having followed some other links today. It reads like someone commenting who hasn’t read the Policy.

                    • mickysavage

                      Pat broke a number of rules and his tone was really offensive. And he has continued the blitzkrieg against TS over at TDB. He needs to become a bit more sensitive and discrete and needs to understand others …

                    • lprent []

                      He only impressed me as being a gormless egotistical dickhead who knew very little about either his topic, or how to behave on the net.

                      That could just be because he was a newbie.

                      But I’d prefer that he does his learning in other sites. Damaging TDB is preferable to him damaging anything that I am responsible for.

                      It ius however disappointing that Mana lets them damage their name. But they do seem to a bit moribund – which is disappointing.

                    • Thanks marty, that’s where it comes from.

                      I appreciate your comment, weka, but as we continue to see with clear, undeniably-breaking-the-rules-and-being-unpleasant bannings like bad12’s, some people are just determined to undermine the rules and moderation of The Standard.

                    • weka

                      thanks Stephanie and micky. This subthread probably wasn’t the best timing or place for me to bring it up.

                    • mickysavage []

                      No problem. I think the left need to clear the air on this issue and anticipate this will happen soon!

                    • @lprent..

                      “..But they do seem to a bit moribund – which is disappointing…”

                      um..!..no…i am going to a meeting this week…

  15. Draco T Bastard 15

    Why Tesla’s battery for your home should terrify utilities

    They haven’t had to deal with this on the residential side yet, primarily because people can sell excess power back to the utilities at fairly high rates — a practice called net metering. But that’s hurting utilities, too, and some have tried to lower the price at which they buy back power, which has been met by furious protests from people leasing panels. If utilities lower the buyback rate too much, however, and batteries get cheap enough, people may just unplug from the grid altogether — or more likely, install systems that let them rely on it only rarely — prompting what those in the industry call “the utility death spiral.” It’s quite a bind: by fighting net metering, utilities would help make battery storage more economically viable, driving the transition to a distributed grid.

    Electricity (and other network utilities) can only make a profit if they have a huge number of people paying into them decreasing the cost per customer of maintaining the generating and distributing equipment. As the utility operators try to boost or even just maintain profits they drive customers away killing their profits.

    The problem though is that the community is better off with the entire population connected to the network with the ‘customers’ both feeding into the network and taking from it as it would make the network more diverse and thus more resilient. A single network also allows for better utilisation of the power generated. As a single network that is privately owned gets to set it’s own charges (monopoly power) and thus get super-profits the only option left for this single network is state owned and run as a government service. This gets the economies of scale that the network is great at providing while also protecting from the greed of the profiteers.

    • If the grid was Government owned and operated as a public utility, rather than a profit driven monopoly, then these developments would be applauded as they save us from building power stations, damming rivers and burning coal.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1

        Which means we could easily start divesting ourselves from the use of fossil fuels.

        • phillip ure

          and that won’t happen..(the power companies working in/for the common-good..)

          ..until they are re-nationalisd..

          ..thinking otherwise is just blowing smoke..

          ..and the more the environmental-consequences kick in/hurt us..

          ..the stronger will become that imperative..

          ..it isn’t a matter of ‘if’..it’s ‘when’..

          ..so..the sooner the better..eh..?

          • Draco T Bastard

            and that won’t happen..(the power companies working in/for the common-good..)

            ..until they are re-nationalisd..

            Which should tell you why they were sold.

            • phillip ure

              i dunno if they are that machiavellian/intelligent..thinking that far ahead..

              ..i think that was just good old-fashioned rightwing dismantling/privatising all/any common-good initiatives..

              ..using greed/personal-enrichment as their carrot..

              ..and if they thought they wd get away with totally privatising them..they wd have done that..

              ..they are just thieving-bastards..

              ..who steal from the common-pool..

              ..and this crew is becoming more obviously naked to all..

              ..by the day..

    • tc 15.2

      Yes and there’s billions in savings by eliminating 4 profit layers ( generator, transmission, lines, retailer) duplicated finance, maintenance, billing systems and all the management, audit, PR functions that are gorging themselves.

      Do that, wave bye bye to Tiwai point encourage customer generation and we’d provide an essential utility at a much better end price.

      Oz don’t think they’ll require extra gen capacity for decades and Germany has shut down 25% of its peak gas powered gen capacity as the customer generation has reduced demand that much.

      You’d pay back the cost of buying back Nats flogged assets in no time at all relatively.

    • tracey 15.3


      Thanks so much for this link. This is where people misunderstand Green policies. For example by labelling The greens loony hippies people overlook the very real advantages to themselves (if not the planet) by adopting Green technology. how hard a sell to middle NZ would the subsidising of Telsa batteries in conjunction with the solar panels? given the savings people can make, not hard at all. And installing into low income and State Homes? A no brainer, especially if we use the money from the sales of the electricity companies…

      • Draco T Bastard 15.3.1

        For example by labelling The greens loony hippies people overlook the very real advantages to themselves (if not the planet) by adopting Green technology.

        IMO, the labeling of environmentalists as hippies and Taliban is solely to protect the old industries, especially fossil fuels, that are destroying our environment and heading us towards the extinction level event known as Climate Change.

        • phillip ure

          the thing is..that ‘hippie/taliban’ bullshit sure has legs…

          ..how much more information/warnings do people/the-dumb-masses need..?

          ..i can understand that latest result snapping normans’ will to continue..

          ..ten fucken percent..all those years..and ten fucken percent..

          ..even most republicans in america are now ‘green/climate-change believers..

          ..to norman/the greens..the nz populace must seem to be an iceberg of ignorance..

          ..and it’s not hard to see why..

          ..all around them are flashing neon signs going ‘pull-up!..pull-up..!’

          ..but they still support vote for drill baby drill!/mine baby mine..! key..

          ..how can they not be as dumb as fucken doorknobs..?

    • gsays 15.4

      hi draco, do you have any knowledge of how these tesla batteries differ from deep cycle batteries?
      and can you explain it as you would to a 10 year old child?

      • Draco T Bastard 15.4.1

        Besides the fact that they’re probably lithium ion batteries, Nope.

        • gsays

          ok cool, i live off grid and deep cycle battery tech hasnt moved for yonks.

          the contrast between new lithium ion rechargable batteries and the last generation is remarkable. to have that appled to deep cycle batteries is exciting.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Thing is, you will want to see installations of this new tech prove themselves over 5-10 years of real life use before swapping over to the new tech.

            • gsays

              hi cr, true, true.
              i have never been an early adapter (adopter?) of tech.
              10 yrs time would be about time for us to change our battery bank.
              no battery ever dies, they are murdered

      • Colonial Rawshark 15.4.2

        Apparently they are a variation or extension of the Li-ion battery set up that they use for their vehicles, described here:


  16. Colonial Rawshark 16

    By weakening our operating systems, encryption systems, firmware, network hardware etc for their own uses, the NSA makes all of us vulnerable to attack by hackers.

    Now US cyber attacks on their enemies have taught countries like Iran how to attack the west back. As Bill Binney says – the NSA does not have a monopoly on smart people.


    • The Stuxnet story is worth reading… how some malware in off-the-shelf software wormed its way into Iran’s nuclear testing facilities and screwed up their research.

      On “Patch Tuesday” this week, a fix was issued for an exploit that requires modifying only a single bit of the Windows operating system.

      As part of our research, we revealed this privilege escalation vulnerability which, if exploited, enables a threat actor to complete control of a Windows machine. In other words, a threat actor that gains access to a Windows machine (say, through a phishing campaign) can exploit this vulnerability to bypass all Windows security measures, defeating mitigation measures such as sandboxing, kernel segregation and memory randomization.

      We have verified this exploit against all supported Windows desktop versions, including Windows 10 Technical Preview.

      A top hacker shows how it’s done in this TED talk.

      Some very interesting trends emerging. As we become more connected we are more likely to be infected. As in the movie “The Imitation Game”, the spooks won’t let on how pwned we/they really are

  17. Tautoko Mangō Mata 17

    Excellent article by Philip Matthews in the Dominion Post on the hazards in NZ for academics and intellectuals who speak out on issues.
    Dame Anne Salmond
    “This is partly because some groups with vested interests do not welcome public scrutiny of their activities and actively seek to suppress it. This happened in the Dirty Politics saga, for example.”


    The following video discusses the same issue and illustrates the awesome courage of those who stand up and speak out for the public good despite knowing the dangers. Sadly David Carr died 3 hours after the interview was filmed.

    • tc 17.1

      Yes across the ditch gillian triggs the human rights commmissioner has been attacked by abbotts mates at murdoch media in a cruel and personal manner, toady piers ackerman takes it down the odious route.

      Her crime: putting on the agenda the torture of children by both parties when in government, which is her job.

      • mickysavage 17.1.1

        Yep TC when I heard Abbott’s comments and I then found out what Triggs had actually said my first response was “Abbott is a complete and utter piece of doggie do and the world would be a better place if he was retired immediately and WTF was Labor doing …” [Edited before posting to remove all the swearing …]

    • fisiani 17.2

      Nothing that happens today compares with the pervasive climate of fear that we all endured during the Helengrad regime. Those were the days were you could be sacked from Government employment because of who your boyfriend voted for.

      [lprent: ?link I am sure that your lack of a link to support that was significant. Offhand I can think of only one oossible, and that was simply domr right wing nutters mythic incident. It relied on a pile of repeated unsupported lying from Nationals sockpuppets. Notably from their pollster.

      In fact it looked exactly like what you are doing now. If you want to replay such myths, then link to some supporting credible report so others are able to look and judge for themselves.

      You have been warned about this prior to the last time I banned you for it. If I see you do this type of smear again I will ban you for double the last time I caught you doing it. I suspect it will a long ban. ]

  18. Tweet of the day (shame we can’t embed images…this is a good one)

    We found a copy of @johnkeypm's Valentines Day card to Skycity pic.twitter.com/y4IzeT7mr7— Young Labour NZ (@younglabournz) February 14, 2015

  19. Draco T Bastard 19

    Nobody Understands Debt — Including Paul Krugman

    This is one of the many times where “experts” in economics have it all wrong, and the general public’s gut feelings about banks, debt and money are closer to the truth. Bank lending is fundamentally important to the performance of the economy, and it is also fundamentally different to lending between individuals. But mainstream economics has convinced itself of the opposite propositions—that lending (most of the time) has trivial macroeconomic implications (the exception being during a “liquidity trap”), and that bank lending to individuals is really no different to lending between individuals.

    Probably one of the simpler explanations of how money works in the real world as compared to how most economists believe it works.

  20. vto 20

    John Key never fails to stick up for the ‘big end’ of town. Here he is in this article patting the back of the Foodstuff-Progressive duopoly cartel .. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/66179219/hub-raises-stakes-in-battle-for-mainland-market-share conveniently forgetting the history and Australian cities of the same population.

    And here “That’s sort of been quite standard in a lot of New Zealand industries.”

    So wrong in so many ways

    e.g ever heard him sticking up for the poor like this?

  21. vto 21

    Jeez John Key sounded like a twerp with his “serious” voice on over his calls for war. After 6 years of nothing but child-like smart-alecery and witless jokes he has no gravitas to get even remotely close to sounding grown up.

    What a dick

  22. North 22

    VTO…….slow down man……all is well…….John Armstrong’s long been reckoning that the GaucheKey’s got “gravitas”. That’s good enough for me – in my scary and sadly recurring Sarah Palin incarnations. Russia “just over there” is heavy.

    Warning ! This next observation is not for the ears of fizzy, alwyn, goosie, the late and lamentable ss-lands…….”gravitas” in this instance must be read thus – sort of “not too sure about that fulla” dyed-hair insurance type guy, hangin’ around the rugby club round 4.45 pm winter Saturdays. Buzzed to the point of embarrassment in all listeners, tryin’ to grease up the ‘player-of-the-day’. Or Richie McCaw as the case might be. The lust to bathe in glory ? This makes God ?

    We are run by a spoilt, nouveau-riche, not handsomely literate, child. With an apparently attractive gaucheness. It’s a fucking disgrace ! Go back down the years – Clark, Bolger, (omitted Shipley, Palmer, Moore), Lange, Muldoon (yes I know – spooky) , Rowling, Kirk , Marshall, Holyoake. History has not recdorded these as dishonourable people.

    There are undeniable scenarios, indicators, fuck-ups, hubris-times, to have history record that the SelfieKey set about for the corruption of our national psyche, the decency in us. For the benefit of the few. That is an ugly and unforgiveable legacy.

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