Open mike 14/03/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 14th, 2013 - 136 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

136 comments on “Open mike 14/03/2013 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    14 March 2013 at 6:15 am

    Irony-free NewstalkZB
    “Do you see this as VILE, Jock?”

    “The Huddle”, NewstalkZB, Wednesday 13 March 2013, 5:45 p.m.
    Larry “Lackwit” Williams, Jock Anderson, Bill Ralston

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Okay, umm, ahhh, uuuummm…. topic number one today is the Novopay situation. They’re sending in the debt collectors, Bill!

    BILL RALSTON: [snarling and panting with indignation] Arrrrgghhhh, what a load of whining and moaning and mad whinging by these teachers! I mean, they might have a point with some issues but they shout everything at maximum volume. So you CAN’T TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY!

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Jock?

    JOCK ANDERSON: Bill’s dead right. These teachers have their lap-dogs in the media. This whole business is just an hysterical over-reaction.

    BILL RALSTON: [frenzied] And how many of them were there that received these debt notices? Seven?

    JOCK ANDERSON: That’s right! There were only seven of them!

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: [mockingly] Call 911!

    BILL RALSTON: [apoplectic] There’s just this mad angel chorus! This whining and moaning and whinging! And I tell you what: NOBODY… TAKES…. THEM…. SERIOUSLY.

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Yep!

    JOCK ANDERSON: Exactly! There are no doubt many good, hard-working teachers out there.

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Oh yes, yes, of course.

    JOCK ANDERSON: I have yet to meet one, however.

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: [uneasily] Ah, ahhh, um.

    BILL RALSTON: [softly, nervously] Ha ha ha.

    BILL RALSTON: Okay, we’re back with The Huddle after the break.

    ……..COMMERCIALS…….

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Topic No. 2 is this Comedy Central television show called The Jeselnik Offensive, which thought it would be a good idea to make jokes about the death of Adam Strange at Muriwai. Listen to this…..

    AUDIO CLIP: [American comedian] “Last week, a man in New Zealand was attacked by a fourteen-foot shark. Was he killed? You bet your sweet ass he was killed! And he had a family and everything!” [AUDIENCE:] Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Okay. Now…. [Pauses to indicate how troubled he is] Now, do you see this as VILE, Jock?

    JOCK ANDERSON: [with utmost gravitas] I certainly do.

    BILL RALSTON: Some of these people think they can say whatever they like.

    …….CUT…….

    At this point, I was unable to continue listening, as my companion in the car started swearing and shouting at the disembodied voices of Messrs Anderson, Ralston and Lackwit-Williams, denouncing them as “fucking hypocrites”, “racists”, “professional haters”, “boors”, and many other choice and mordantly accurate pejoratives.

    FUN FACT: One of NewstalkZB’s advertising slogans is “Tune Your Mind”. Another one is “Fair and Balanced.”

    • Jenny 1.1
      14 March 2013 at 7:06 am

      Hate radio is in full cry. The government and the state must be gearing up for even more attacks on education.

      • Paul 1.1.1
        14 March 2013 at 5:19 pm

        You bet ya. Just count the stories with an inherent bias against teachers in the Herald. There always seems to be a tale about this or that that paints teachers in a bad light.
        I do no longer believe such stories are coincidences, but part of a plan to set the ground to influence public opinion before radical changes.
        As Malcolm X said.. “If you’re not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

    • Rogue Trooper 1.2
      14 March 2013 at 12:32 pm

      “all of the above”

    • geoff 1.3
      14 March 2013 at 1:55 pm

      Nice work Morrissey.
      Even Monty Python couldn’t come up with that.

  2. Pascal's bookie 2
    14 March 2013 at 7:11 am

    In which I learn that “What do you think of Jennifer Lawrence?” is a fantastic question.

    http://www.vice.com/read/what-do-hate-groups-think-of-jennifer-lawrence

  3. mickysavage 3
    14 March 2013 at 7:18 am

    Louisa Wall take a bow. And Labour this what an effective principled MP looks like. If anyone deserves a promotion it is her.

  4. logie97 4
    14 March 2013 at 7:26 am

    …thank goodness Rome has found how to make white smoke. Perhaps Radio New Zealand can move on now.

    • tc 4.1
      14 March 2013 at 7:44 am

      And exactly what % of folk in NZ give a toss about the catholic church anyway, I’d have thought it’s way down the list now with the diverse range of faiths on display now and cults like the Destination Brian.

      • ad 4.1.1
        14 March 2013 at 8:00 am

        Nope, it’s the biggest religious thing in the world, and way the biggest denomination of anything in the country.

        Some of us even vote Labour.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1
          14 March 2013 at 10:22 am

          Nope, it’s the biggest religious thing in the world…

          No, it’s not. Catholicism may be the biggest christian denomination (~17% of entire world) but Muslim is larger (~23% of entire world). Of course, Christianity as a whole is the largest religion.

          …and way the biggest denomination of anything in the country.

          and that’s not true either.

          • karol 4.1.1.1.1
            14 March 2013 at 10:34 am

            Thanks, DTB. I am always bewildered at the unwarranted amount of media attention given the patriarchal personage of the pope.

            • Enough is Enough 4.1.1.1.1.1
              14 March 2013 at 10:47 am

              You think the media attention for the election of the spiritual leader of over one billion people is unwarranted?

              • karol …
                14 March 2013 at 10:49 am

                It’s the AMOUNT of attention it gets. Sure I would expect some coverage. Al Jazeera had a live watch this morning, waiting for over half an hour for the new Pope to appear. Not needed.

                Do other religions with similar numbers of followers get so much attention?

            • Ennui 4.1.1.1.1.2
              14 March 2013 at 11:11 am

              Karol, as a non religious agnostic even I find your lack of appreciation somewhat bewildering. This man represents the spiritual leadership of a quarter of the world…not very significant.

              We don’t have to agree with him, his dogma, his “patriarchal” nature, his personal viewpoints etc, but to ignore his significance is somewhat of a limitation on somebodies world view.

              So to give you and others a little hint at the significance of this one:
              * Loyola is happy, this is the first Jesuit Pope. They are an evangelical order dedicated to evangelical preservation of the Catholic faith, working with the believers and converts. It points towards a more hands on approach between the church and the congregation.
              * He is the first Francis. St Francis came to “rebuild a church”, he was a reformer. He was also a leader by example.
              * This is the first South American Pope. If you want to do politics in South America you need the church onside.
              * He is a man of the people, he moved out of his bishops palace into a small apartment and coos for himself, walks and catches buses.

              Might tell you something.

              • karol …
                14 March 2013 at 11:32 am

                Nope – still don’t get it. As I said, a report yes, by not as much attention as the media give him. His significance is bloated by the media – self-perpetuating cycle. Do we hear as much about key Muslim leaders? Or key protestant leaders?

                • karol …
                  14 March 2013 at 11:37 am

                  PS: And how wealthy is the Catholic Church world wide – in terms of possessions, real estate etc? It seems to be denied by many but the stats they give are of the annual budgets of the Vatican, which often runs a deficit. It’s a matter of debate.

                • Ennui …
                  14 March 2013 at 11:54 am

                  Lets look at another way…bloating by the media…there have been 3 changes of Pope in the last 30 years so the media turn up. As you would expect, and they are not getting paid or endorsed or able to turn the cash on it (like they do in the US presidential election). On that basis the coverage is less than that US election, which given most of the planet is part of the US imperial system figures….even so 20% of the planet is directly affected by the Pope so…voila huge media coverage.

                  More Papal media coverage? Yes there will be and should be heaps of it. Still you can always tune out and watch the temporal spiritual equivalent on the “News”, the “markets” followed by “sport”.

                  Muslim leaders dont get the coverage? Since the fall of the Caliphate there has been no Islamic equivalent of Pope but we do get plenty of media about hard line Islamic clerics…and associates like Al Quaeda. Then there is the Queen among-st Protestants…she is head of the C of E. Sells Womens mags as well. Then of course you can turn on the broadcast media any day an watch Protestant televangelists.

                  So back to your first point, the amount of coverage the Pope gets. Too much? Or perhaps are other things that are of significance to yourself and others getting too little?

                  • karol …
                    14 March 2013 at 12:04 pm

                    Agree that sport and the Queen get too much coverage – ditto all kinds of celebs. Al Qaeda’s coverage is hardly equivalent as it’s usually very negative coverage.

                    Well, certainly, the plight of the less well off (including amongst rank and file, church going Catholics, Muslims, workers in diverse countries from China to South America through India, the US and Europe), get far to little coverage.

                • Enough is Enough …
                  14 March 2013 at 12:06 pm

                  “key protestant leaders”…like um the head of the Anglican Church…

                  There will be blanket coverage when Elizabeth dies and is replaced by Charles. There will bo no other news for a week

                • Pascal's bookie …
                  14 March 2013 at 8:23 pm

                  Do we hear as much about key Muslim leaders?

                  Well there’s no real equivalent. The grand muftis would be the closest within Sunni Islam, but they are not at all comparable to a Pope in terms of religious authority.

              • prism …
                14 March 2013 at 7:49 pm

                You’re a dove of peace Ennui.

                • Ennui in Requiem …
                  15 March 2013 at 8:34 am

                  Thanks Prism, kindness a rule number one always.

                  • prism …
                    15 March 2013 at 10:33 am

                    EinR
                    Yes I have been thinking lately that kindness could be the major ameliorating emotion for all the destructive ones that we humans have. Too much kindness can be smothering, but then it can be argued that that is not true kindness, it’s passive aggression or controlling.
                    That seventies? slogan – ‘Aim to carry out daily random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty’ might be due for a revival.

          • McFlock 4.1.1.1.2
            14 March 2013 at 10:45 am

            Not sure whether it’s apples v apples putting Catholic v (Sunni + Shia + others).

            new pope isn’t the most earth-shattering event, but it’s still pretty important to a lot of people in NZ. Might even be on the same level of public interest as a rugby match 🙂

          • ad 4.1.1.1.3
            14 March 2013 at 12:35 pm

            Yes it’s the biggest religious thing in the world, and has very little to do with global share. Fortunately. Check out that media and crowd turnout for who got to lead the Anglicans. Love them as I do.

            As for the NZ denominational size, wait for the census results. Catholics will be the largest.

            Anyone who thinks leadership change in a major institution doesn’t really matter (because changing the culture is too hard) probably didn’t have a coherent view about the leadership of the Labour Party.

          • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1.1.4
            14 March 2013 at 12:37 pm

            Canon reference D.

        • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1.2
          14 March 2013 at 12:35 pm

          ad; submissions to the same-sex marriage bill committee by the Catholic Action network were amongst those deemed too offensive to be seen or considered…
          http://catholicaction.org/

          • ad 4.1.1.2.1
            14 March 2013 at 12:40 pm

            Agreed.

            Would Helen Clark have got another term if she had pushed through so many social reform Acts? I put it to you: yes. And we would likely be in an historic fifth term. So was it the right thing to do or not, at the time?

            Clearly Labour have determined not to have a Reformation. Have they even whipped on the same-sex marriage bill? Let’s not paint white virtue over the team please.

      • Enough is Enough 4.1.2
        14 March 2013 at 9:05 am

        tc

        For arguments sake lets say 1% of NZ give a toss about the catholic church. So what, it is still news worthy.

        The spiritual leader for over a billion people in this world has been elected. Someone who takes on an instituion which has more problems than the National Government.

        Don’t let your anti catholic prejudices get in the way of a very important news story.

        • tc 4.1.2.1
          14 March 2013 at 9:15 am

          IMO it’s not an important news story, I know plenty of catholics who think the vatican is as irrelevant as Justin Beiber or Michael Laws and the only thing a new Pope takes on is the robes.

          You get the gig to sustain the insitution not change it.

          • Ennui 4.1.2.1.1
            14 March 2013 at 11:15 am

            See my comment above and examine the gig statement. This institution has been around two thousand years during which time a lot has changed and often. The lesson is that the RC church has also had to change. The change agent is normally the Pope. This one signifies a change. And that is how they sustain it. There are some lessons in this.

            • red rattler 4.1.2.1.1.1
              14 March 2013 at 5:28 pm

              What one fascist followed by another is a change. You must be joking.
              http://www.latinorebels.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-i-and-argentinas-dirty-war/

              • karol …
                14 March 2013 at 7:06 pm

                Chris Trotter is not very impressed by The new Pope’s past either. As well as being actively homophobic and anti-abortion,

                Behind the humble bus-rider of Vatican publicity; behind the warm grandfatherly smile; Francis I remains as much a prisoner of reactionary Catholic theology as John-Paul II and Benedict XVI.

                And according to the research of Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina’s leading investigative journalists, Bergoglio’s reactionary beliefs are not confined to the issues of homosexuality, abortion and contraception. Francis I is also a political reactionary.

                He was actively involved on the side of the nasty folks in Argentina’s “dirty war”

                Hugh O’Shaughnessy has been reporting Latin American politics for 40 years. In the Guardian of 4 January 2011 he wrote:

                “To the judicious and fair-minded outsider it has been clear for years that the upper reaches of the Argentine church contained many … [individuals] … who had communed and supported the unspeakably brutal Western-supported military dictatorship which seized power in that country in 1976 and battened on it for years.”

                Reviewing Verbitsky’s book “El Silencio” (The Silence), O’Shaunghessy recounted how:

                “The Argentine navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship’s political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio’s name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to choose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of [South] America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment.”

                That scandal has now occurred.

                • Ennui in Requiem …
                  15 March 2013 at 8:31 am

                  I respect both Trotters view and OShaugnessys. For the latter, a Contra who was actively partisan, I would ask for hardnevidence, there appears from other sources to be a very different story, so judgment withheld.

                  From Trotter I hear loud and clear the objections of enlightenment liberal thinking: Chris is crazy if he ever thought the Pope would be doctrinally different and he is missing the real possibilities. These are based in the real human traditions that far out date our “modern”secular thought. Historic context is important and Chris has either missed it or ignored it.

                  By taking Francis the new Pope may be indicating that his Church move toward a Franciscan tradition of service and charity, and more importantly toward leadership by example. This goes to the heart of the Christian message, there has always been a tension between humility (and leadership by example) and demanding adherence from the pulpit. Franciscan versus Dominican.

                  PS: I am not religious. I just happen to think that if you limit your world view and thinking to post Voltaire rationalism you become very mechanistic and narrow in approach. It can lead you to political and personal absolutism on par with doctrinal absolutism.

                  • karol …
                    15 March 2013 at 8:58 am

                    Ennui, is the criticism of absolutism directed at me? I don’t recognise your description in myself.

                    The change to a more Franciscan approach is appealing. However, I have difficulty seeing that as being led by an institution/city state that incorporates a pomp and opulence within a rigid hierarchy.

                    • Ennui …
                      15 March 2013 at 9:33 am

                      Not personal K, however there is a strong streak of absolutism on this blog (and pretty much every other). Hell I do it too, but there’s inconsistency and duality for you.

                      On the Franciscan approach my viewpoint is extremely long term: since the time of the ancient Pontifex Maximi (yes the papacy predates JC) there has always been an adjustment to circumstances, the main issue being to preserve the institution and faith. Francis never succeeded in rebuilding the Church, he built his legacy in our minds and actions. But not all of us, some of us are Dominicans. I don’t expect the RC as an institution to do anything but adjust and survive, its an enviable track record regardless of how we regard the dogma etc. Francis might however change the immediate focus on what is a priority. Lets watch.

    • Populuxe1 4.2
      14 March 2013 at 1:46 pm

      Only twelve percent of the population, and it’s only the world’s largest Christian church, with 1.2 billion members worldwide, obviously it’s totally irrelevant

      • logie97 4.2.1
        14 March 2013 at 7:50 pm

        Phew, that observation generated a bit of excitement amongst a few, but in passing I think comparisons with coverage of the Royal family are spurious.

        FYI, there are not umpteen billion catholics in New Zealand and as far as I recall, the pope does not yet have the power to dismiss a democratically elected commonwealth government, say the New Zealand Parliament, which I understand HRH and her descendants currently still/will do. (Oh and to say that they never would, well ask the Australian people what happened in 1975).

  5. Jenny Kirk 5
    14 March 2013 at 7:43 am

    The Govt is gunning for the Auckland Council. This is in today’s Herald –

    “The Government is becoming increasingly heavy-handed over Auckland’s housing shortage, with talk of a new Crown agency to free up more land. Environment Minister Amy Adams has suggested stripping the Auckland Council of some planning powers for three years to allow a Crown agency to play a role increasing the city’s residential land supply.
    New Housing Minister Nick Smith has also released a Government report which, he says, shows a worrying trend of reduced land availability and soaring section prices.
    ……… and this –
    “……Department of Internal Affairs review of development contributions which considers options of capping or abolishing them”

    IMO Auckland cannot afford to sprawl any more. It eats up fertile horticultural land, and costs too much for additional infrastructure and motorways. And there is a need for development contributions from the developers to help pay for some of the extra costs – more people require more council services – libraries, parks, recreation areas.

    But this Govt is a developers’ friend – not an environmental friend, or – for that matter – a friend of the 99%. And its hell-bent on taking over the legal roles of local govt when it can’t get its own way,
    Aucklanders are in for a fight !

    • mickysavage 5.1
      14 March 2013 at 7:54 am

      Typical Government.

      Auckland Council asked for the Unitary Plan to have effect from the time it is released (ie this year) and Government turned them down. Then it jumps up and down because Auckland is not doing anything …

      Talk about Nanny State.

    • muzza 5.2
      14 March 2013 at 8:09 am

      Remember that central control of the second city of ChCh has already been achieved, as well as the Kaipara Council, so it is hardly a surprise that AKL Council is under the microscope, why not!

      One way or another central control will eventuate to some level, just take a look at the projected debt increase over the next ten years forecasted for AKL.

      Books are not open of course, and the money simply *vanishing*, being replaced by debt with interest. Privatization of AKLs assets are a done deal, thats what the super city was all about!

      • vto 5.2.1
        14 March 2013 at 9:22 am

        What is more interesting to note is that the opposite policy applies in rural regions looking to expand irrigation and intensify agriculture. In these areas the government is pushing more power onto local councils, because they are dominated by farmer representatives.

        This is a massive rebalancing of power within NZ.

        But it will not last. This government in doing these things is going against the mid and long term grain. These things they are introducing are going to be reversed.

        As has been said many times before – this is the last hurrah and grasp for goodies by greedies. And they aint holding back, the dirty c#&%s.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3
      14 March 2013 at 10:30 am

      Govt piles on pressure for housing land

      Ah, this government – taking away democracy in favour of its rich mates – again.

      • tc 5.3.1
        14 March 2013 at 11:17 am

        What high density redevelopment of all existing State housing sites in akl would look like BEFORE heatley started selling it to their developer mates. GI is relatively central as is the recent Sandringham issue.

        Bullying and selling is easy, building and being collaborative requires effort and committment.

      • Rogue Trooper 5.3.2
        14 March 2013 at 12:45 pm

        the cost of fuel, the cost of fuel, the cost of fuel

  6. ad 6
    14 March 2013 at 8:06 am

    Watch out for that Gen-I restructure.

    There’s plenty of companies who have lost a hundred jobs in the last few years.

    But what makes this one different is that the great majority of those being made redundant:
    – will not be managers or Chief Executives
    – will be high end technicians and account managers earning well over $150,000 and
    – are from New Zealand’s largest high-tech company

    This is precisely the kind of company New Zealand needs to grow if it is to be less bulk commodity dependent and less dependent upon the weather.

    These are highly mobile people who will of course be able to find adventure in other countries.
    But with them go their expense accounts, research demand, service demand, spinoff capability, luxury goods buying capacity, school fees and t ravel budgets; cumulatively a huge dark ripple effect.

    A very dark moment.

  7. bad12 7
    14 March 2013 at 8:12 am

    auckland.scoop.co.nz/…west-auckland-company-champions-living-…

    Round of applause to this Auckland tofu manufacturer for agreeing to pay it’s workers ‘the living wage’…

    • bad12 7.1
      14 March 2013 at 8:14 am

      Bugger, that link isn’t going to work, Google the above and it will take you to the page…

      • karol 7.1.1
        14 March 2013 at 9:36 am

        Thanks for the tip, bad. TONZU + respect for unions and collective bargaining.

        • bad12 7.1.1.1
          14 March 2013 at 9:57 am

          Welcome!!! full credit to TONZU for good employment practice and here’s hoping that more private employers begin to see the light,

          AND,

          The Labour Party brings forward an employment policy of raising the minimum wage by $1.50 an hour for every year that they are the Government,

          That’s not only good for the lowest paid workers, it’s also a boost in income for the Capitalists themselves who are the ultimate beneficiaries of higher wages for those who earn the least as such monies are directly spent into the economy driving companies to compete creating yet more employment,

          The Government’s coffers are also enriched by being a beneficiary of the rise in income from taxation as those reliant upon the lowest income as a majority always spend what they have earned into the local economy as they earn such monies…

        • mickysavage 7.1.1.2
          14 March 2013 at 11:25 am

          Jessie Chalmers is also a respected member of the Waitemata Local Board and a Green party activist. Good to see that she is walking the walk in terms of her political beliefs.

    • Rosie 7.2
      14 March 2013 at 4:01 pm

      That IS good news re Tonzu paying a living wage to its workers. They are a great example to other employers in the food manufacturing sector. Having dealt with them as suppliers back in the day I can say they were always on the level and walked the talk. No greenwash with that family. It’s been good to see their company grow over the years and it goes to show that business can be sustainable, ethical and profitable. There is no need for companies to be A-Holes (think Talleys, Sealord, Preston Taylor etc) to turn a profit.

      Sadly there are also companies in NZ in the same category as the Chalmers – (Wholefoods/Organics) who aren’t such clean operators. The worst offenders for low pay rates, intimidation, poor staff moral, serious health and safety breaches (including unreported serious harm) and screwing down raw product suppliers as well as turning a blind eye to non compliance that I have ever seen, have been in this category.

      We have such a very long way to go in terms of improving our business behaviour in NZ so bigs ups to Tonzu for demonstrating what a good employer and a good ethical business is. Lets hope it catches on.

  8. bad12 8
    14 March 2013 at 9:07 am

    More s**t journalism from RadioNZ National’s Morning Report today allowing State Owned enterprises Minister Tony Ryall to spew forth a trail of ‘modified truth’ over the airwaves about the Slippery National Government’s involvement in the financial knee-capping of the States coal miner Solid Energy,

    Ryall is now claiming that they (National) only became concerned about the financial state of Solid Energy as the price of coal dropped sharply in the last six months,

    The ‘facts’ which escaped both Ryall and those interviewing Him on RadioNZ this morning are that the price of coal has been remarkably stable since May 2012,

    May 2012= $102.68,
    February 2013= $101.72,
    http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/market-amp-transportation/coal-price/

    Ryall modifying the truth this morning on RadioNz is a direct contradiction of what Slippery the Prime Minister said in answer to a question from the Green Party’s Russell Norman last week in the Parliament where Slippery said that National had no previous concerns about Solid energy’s financial position because coal prices had remained ‘high’,

    Bill from Dipton is now talking of ‘hindsight’ as an excuse for this National Governments financial gutting of Solid energy, obviously Bill was too busy elsewhere to notice that at the point of His election into the position of Finance Minister the bottom had fallen out of the price of coal…

    • tc 8.1
      14 March 2013 at 9:18 am

      Blinglish’s also rolled out the ‘Blame Labour’ line on SE also.

      • vto 8.1.1
        14 March 2013 at 9:26 am

        Don’t worry, the people see through that bullshit. This is another doozy of a knock to the current govt.

        Time for them to be whacked with the next one. Then the next one. Then th next one. Then the next one.

      • bad12 8.1.2
        14 March 2013 at 9:38 am

        That’s just bovine defecation from Bill from Dipton, the debt of Solid Energy at the point of the 2008 election was just 13 million dollars,

        Now after being directly told by Tony Ryall and Bill English to take on more debt Solid Energy is staggering under a debt of 389 million dollars, not racked up while Labour was the Government, pushed into such unsustainable debt by this Slippery National Government who have in the past month tried to squirm out of their responsibility for the kneecapping of Solid Energy…

    • ad 8.2
      14 March 2013 at 10:11 am

      Well, if the progressive side isn’t dominating the airwaves right now when the rare convergence of the Solid Energy and Mighty River power stories are intersecting with the Assets Sales petition, and Key is distracted and off-message while overseas, it’s more a failure of opposition than a triumph of National Radio (!), or a triumph for Tony Ryall (!).

      Anyone here wishing for a progressive leader that could cut through the flim flam, appear coherent on television, and send a shudder through National and indeed the polls?

      Right now is the moment to make the left cohere. Anyone? Hello?

      • bad12 8.2.1
        14 March 2013 at 10:49 am

        The Opposition are in my opinion ‘doing quite well’ on the Solid energy issue, it was highlighted on TV1 news last night portraying National’s handling of the finances surrounding Solid Energy in a very poor light after David Shearers questioning of Bill English in the Parliament yesterday where He had English having to admit that the National Government wrote to Solid Energy in 2009 as the price of coal fell dramatically telling Solid Energy to take on more debt,

        English is at present answering these questions on behalf of Slippery the Prime Minister and while doing so is exposing previous answers by Slippery to questions in the House over Solid Energy’s Chairman at the Select Committee and information gleaned from that Committee will be used in coming weeks to beat upon Ryall,English, and Slippery the Prime Minister for their current first it was high coal prices then it was low coal prices attempts at deviating from the truth surrounding the financial knee-capping of the States coal miner Solid energy,

        ‘The Opposition’ only gets certain amounts of questions and supplementary questions it can ask in the Parliament on any given day so such ‘scandals’ as Solid energy’s abhorrent over-loading of 389 million dollars of debt while this National Government sucked 120+ million dollars of dividends out of the company can only be exposed brick by brick,

        The collective news media do not help to give the full picture of such shonky business dealings by this National Government by conducting ill researched interviews with the likes of SOE Minister Tony Ryall when they allow Him to tell blatant lies about the price of coal and hardly afford the Opposition the right of reply,

        It is bordering upon ‘fraud’ for this National Government to highlight as it has done the amount of dividends it has collected from Solid Energy in the past 3 years whilst attempting to hide the amount of debt that company has racked up and further attempting to hide this National Governments culpability in having Solid Energy take on that amount of debt in the first place,

        My view is that the Opposition is scoring some good points off of the back of the lies so far told by Slippery, English, and Ryall over the Solid Energy debacle, that there is more yet to come from this issue and that the NZ news media should get up to speed on what actually took place vis a vis coal prices and debt loading along with the taking of dividends by this National Government…

        • ad 8.2.1.1
          14 March 2013 at 12:27 pm

          Not really interested in how many excuses parliamentary questions or the media give the Opposition right now.

          Tell you what, if your points get Labour a lift in the next polls – say just 2% – I will say I am wrong and there really was an effective leadership of the Opposition.

          Will you?

          • bad12 8.2.1.1.1
            14 March 2013 at 4:34 pm

            Yes of course ‘your’ not really interested in the mechanics of the slanted and biased treatment that the news media give to the Opposition party’s right now, much easier to just sit there and whine about the fact that the other David isn’t the leader of the opposition right???,

            Will i what???, Labour could virtually assure it’self as the next major party of Government at the 2014 election by bringing forward a policy of increasing the minimum wage by $1.50 an hour for every year that it holds office,

            i wont hold my breath waiting for such a policy release but i am ever the optimist…

            • Ad 8.2.1.1.1.1
              14 March 2013 at 5:33 pm

              You clearly don’t have any idea about how to hold people accountable. Time to start.

              Change your mindset. When you invest in something, be it shares or membership, expect results, not woolly virtues like loyalty, to be rewarded. They never are.

              The polls have not current rewarded your optimism for 5 years. Be cold with the reality of this. This is as good as Opposition gets. They either make a real move now, or they simply can’t.

              • Rogue Trooper …
                14 March 2013 at 5:44 pm

                “pamphlet” was interesting, although a little “wordy” for a semiotic

  9. Draco T Bastard 9
    14 March 2013 at 9:59 am

    The Stock Market Is a Debt-Fueled Bubble: Steve Keen
    Oh dear, it seems that the US stock market has gone back into bubble territory financed by highly leveraged debt. Exactly as we saw in 2k and 2k6/7 – just before the whole artifice collapsed.

    • bad12 9.1
      14 March 2013 at 10:57 am

      Yes the Banking Cartels have decided to play another game of Roulette with the bloated middle classes that have all got more monies than brains,

      The US stock-markets are being pumped with with some of the trillions of dollars of printed monies used to ‘bail’ them out of the 2007-2008 fiasco which they directly created,

      The Bankster’s ill gotten gains will be laundered through the inflation of stock-prices and the wealthy middle classes will be left holding the baby (again) when the bubble bursts,

      i am not sure if people with very short memories ‘deserve’ to get continuously ripped by the banking cartels, but ripped they will be…

    • Rogue Trooper 9.2
      14 March 2013 at 12:52 pm

      Yep

  10. johnm 10
    14 March 2013 at 10:26 am

    Another dispatch from the U$K class war, courtesy of the people’s artist taxi driver.

    “BBC Propaganda; pitting poor against poorer ”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1YUo_tjqb4&list=UUGThM-ZZBba1Zl9rU-XeR-A&index=2

    beneficiaries existing on pittances are being attacked with propaganda that they’re scroungers.

    • AFEWMORETHEKNOWTHETRUTH 10.1
      14 March 2013 at 5:13 pm

      http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9800#.UUFM0zfPJkg

      The fatal choice between food or heating in Modern Britain

      HASSAN GHANI, TRNN CORRESPONDENT: Winters in the UK can be bitterly cold. In an economy where the cost of living is going up while average incomes are staying the same, a growing number of people are having to choose between food and heating. One recent survey found that up to 1 in 4 families in Britain was turning down the heating during the winter to be able to pay other bills. The cost of gas and electricity for consumers has more than doubled since 2004, and the energy industry is warning that heating bills are going to get even bigger in coming years.

      The basic problem, say energy companies, is that there simply isn’t enough capacity anymore, because they’re having having to close down some of their older coal and oil power stations in order to meet green energy targets. They’re now building a series of natural gas power stations in order to bridge the gap. The bottom line is that energy companies are going to raise their prices even further, and they’re blaming it on the rising cost of wholesale gas and investment in renewable energy.

      But more and more consumers are growing wise to the fact that the energy companies themselves are making vast and growing profits, despite their claims of simply passing on price rises. British Gas, for example, saw an 11percent increase in profits last year. It’s managing director, who’s tom moving on, will leave with a $15million departure package. And there’s very little transparency in the way the big energy companies buy their fuel, which is purchased in advance. An investigation is now underway into allegations of price-fixing by the power companies.

      Ultimately, the rise in household bills is having a devastating effect on the most vulnerable members of society

      Future for us under John Yankee!? :-9

    • Ugly Truth 10.2
      14 March 2013 at 8:26 pm

      http://www.newsunspun.org/article/the-bbcs-bogeyman-narrative-on-hugo-chavez

      The BBC maintained a strong a record of misleading reporting throughout the presidency of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who died on Tuesday, following a two year battle with cancer…

      In discussing US-Venezuelan relations, Kelly does not mention probably the most seminal event of the last fourteen years: the US-backed coup in 2002. As an interesting aside, straight after the death of Hugo Chavez, in the BBC ‘look back’ at his life, the coup was also omitted by James Robbins, who instead described events as ‘a general strike’ when ‘Chavez was briefly pushed from office’.

      • Morrissey 10.2.1
        14 March 2013 at 9:16 pm

        The BBC, or British State Radio. It’s a propaganda arm of the British state, about as reliable and trustworthy as Pravda was in the 1970s.

        • Te Reo Putake 10.2.1.1
          14 March 2013 at 9:31 pm

          Yeah right. For all its faults, the BBC is still the greatest broadcasting platform in the world and a force for good. Why else do you think Rupert Murdoch hates it so much and the Tories are trying to nobble it?

          Why just the 70’s, btw?

          • Morrissey 10.2.1.1.1
            14 March 2013 at 9:41 pm

            Don’t get me wrong, I still love the BBC, but there is no doubt that it has been curbed and controlled, especially since Alistair Campbell and Blair led the Government jihad against it when it briefly stepped out of line and went off-message about the Iraq invasion.

            Why the seventies? It just seems remote and exotic now, and all Eastern European-style black and white.

            What a great decade it was…

            • Te Reo Putake 10.2.1.1.1.1
              14 March 2013 at 10:37 pm

              Yes, indeed, a top decade. Nice to see Bowie back on form, eh?

              I recall there was a joke in the USSR about the two papers, Izvestia (Spark) and Pravda (Truth) along the lines that there was no spark in Pravda and no truth in Izvestia.

          • muzza 10.2.1.1.2
            14 March 2013 at 10:22 pm

            You include the Jummy Saville cover up in that do you!

            Force for good, yeah, nah!

            • Te Reo Putake 10.2.1.1.2.1
              14 March 2013 at 10:42 pm

              Yes, I do include Savile. But one man’s crimes, and the incompetence or enabling behaviour of one department of an enormous, worldwide organisation does not diminish the overall good the BBC has done. They helped put that Austrian corporal to rights, for starters.

              • muzza …
                14 March 2013 at 10:52 pm

                But its not just one mans crimes, or one department is it, JS was a UK mega star, he was the BBC entertainment arm, and much more to the BBC at the time, and its been covered up for decades. JS was also one of the largest fund raisers, and high profile charity types in UK history.

                Appreciate the whole organisation is not likely to be dirty, and that they have done some fantastic work, I used to watch alot of the documentaries, but the organisation, has been eaten out!

                So how about Dr David Kelly, different departmental attack, cover up etc…

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  14 March 2013 at 11:01 pm

                  Two isolated incidents, however bad, do not mean the organisation is rotten or that the good they have done and continue to do is worthless. They remain the closest thing to good, honest global media we have. Not perfect, but without peer.

                  • Morrissey …
                    14 March 2013 at 11:06 pm

                    Sadly, Te Reo, it is not just “two isolated incidents”. The rot is systemic.

                    The BBC is not good or honest; you must have it confused with Al-Jazeera or Democracy Now!

                  • Ugly Truth …
                    15 March 2013 at 6:03 am

                    “They remain the closest thing to good, honest global media we have.”

                    A good argument for avoiding corporate media altogether.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    14 March 2013 at 10:52 am

    Dame Anne Salmond: Time to defend democratic rights

    Since the 1980s, however, incomes have diverged dramatically, with those at the top end soaring and those at the bottom end losing ground – the ‘Great Regression.’ This has been accompanied by financial turbulence and crashes.

    What led to these changes? In the 1980s, neo-liberal doctrines were introduced in a number of countries. As the unfettered pursuit of profit took hold, along with the myth of the ‘cost-benefit calculating individual’, ideas of justice, integrity, generosity and freedom began to seem quaint.

    Inspired by neo-liberal thinking, successive governments in New Zealand introduced policies concentrating influence and wealth in the hands of a few, disempowering the many.

    Our society and economy is in trouble because we began to worship greed (the neo-liberal paradigm) and started to reward the rich for being rich. This government is making it worse as it continues these destructive policies.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    14 March 2013 at 11:31 am

    How Money is Destroyed
    And once you’ve finished watching that you’ll understand why this government is borrowing at an increasing rate while telling people to pay their debt and save.

  13. joe90 13
    14 March 2013 at 12:13 pm

    sigh…Benny the pope…questionable past and now… Frankie the pope..questionable past..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/04/argenitina-videla-bergoglio-repentance

    • joe90 13.1
      14 March 2013 at 3:55 pm

      Frank does seem to be an interesting man though.

      The Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, has called for an ethical response to solve the problem of social debt, saying that, not only do terrorism, repression and murder violate human rights, but also extreme poverty and the “unjust economic structures that give rise to great inequalities.”

      Social debt is “immoral, unjust and illegitimate,” the cardinal said, emphasizing that this is especially true when it occurs “in a nation that has the objective conditions for avoiding or correcting such harm.” “Unfortunately,” he noted, it seems that those same countries “opt for exacerbating inequalities even more.”

      http://m.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=17285

  14. Rogue Trooper 14
    14 March 2013 at 1:07 pm

    12 people have died in house fires in three months, compared to 13 for the entire 2012 (an elderly and disabled contribution to this demographic, along with poverty and intoxication?)

    Campbell Live; 200 apply for seven jobs at CHH; this is very sad; “weak employment market”-Wheeler concurs with Deutsche Banke

    2M children affected by the Syrian conflict
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYsi5Y-xOQ
    Hell Is For Children

    Youth Unemployment rate
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8316799/Youth-unemployment-no-surprise

    The Wellington City Mission has become “risk averse” and placing “self-preservation” ahead of caring for the poor; now emphasizing older people and families before the youth and homeless.
    -former (resigned City Missioner; subservient to the CEO)

    “Going through the winter and coming out the other side, the price of meat is going to climb”.
    -Terry McKee, Butcher.
    (Kim Jong Un is “more bloodthirsty, however, like the NActs, who ignored Solid Energy Chairmans’ opposition to a larger dividend.

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    14 March 2013 at 1:48 pm

    absolut 😉 (some morale) that certain kinds of actions are always wrong, or, are always obligatory, whatever the cosequences.
    e.g, wrong to deliberately kill an *innocent* human being; contrasts with “consequentialism”
    linked to, yet not synonymous with, a deontological position in ethics (the latter the view that certain kinds of actions are intrinsically right or wrong-independent of the consequences to which they lead.
    A deontological position obviously? contrasts with a consequentialist one.

    Nevertheless, when detached from appeals to religious (prefer spiritual) authority, Absolutism may appear to be vulnerable to rational criticism.

    However, to be plausible, Absolutism may be supplemented with some further distinction between different ways in which consequences may come about, such as the distinction between acts and omissions or the doctrine of double effect.

    see Anscombe, “War and Murder” in Collected Philosophical Papers : Oxford, 1981, or
    Nagel, “War and Massacre” in Mortal Questions : Cambridge, 1979.

    Nominalism, traditionally understood, is a doctrine which denies the real existence of universals, conceived as the supposed referents of general terms like “chair” or “blue’ (bayou). In order to explain how and why we classify different individual things alike as being “blue” (Peter), nominalists appeal to particular resemblances between those things. Realists object that such an account involves tacit reliance on universals because resemblance is always similarity in “some general respect”, pointing out that different things resemble each other in many different ways.

    Yet nominalists reply, such objections are misconceived and question-begging…

    Plan 9 Channel 7
    Just for you ad,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m2JyiggwAU (no Ant-Poe , or leaving remainders in the library) 🙂

  16. Bill 16
    14 March 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Some of you facebook sorts might enjoy the ‘Arrest John Key’ page. I’m guessing the aim is to pull all the dodgy threads together in one place.

    http://www.facebook.com/ArrestJohnKey

  17. Morrissey 17
    14 March 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Open Letter to Jim Mora:
    You reverently praised Pope Francis, but snickered at the mere mention of Hugo Chávez. What gives?
    “The Panel”, Radio New Zealand National, Thursday 14 March 2013

    Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez, who died last week, was famous for his choosing to favor the poor and dispossessed over the rich and powerful, and for his radical critique of social inequality. Anyone listening to Jim Mora’s show on Monday 11 March will have heard Mora snicker and giggle every time he used the words “Hugo Chávez”.

    Therefore, listeners a few days later (14 March 2013) would no doubt have been astonished to hear Jim Mora adopt a serious and respectful tone when talking of the way that the new Pope prefers the poor and the dispossessed over the rich and powerful, and is a radical critic of social inequality. I flicked the following email to Mr Mora….

    You reverently praised Pope Francis, but snickered at the mere mention of Hugo Chávez. What gives?

    Dear Jim, 

    So the new Pope identifies with the poor and is a critic of the structural injustices that have led to grinding poverty in South America and many other parts of the world. So did another South American, Hugo Chávez, and he was regarded as a hero by the poor of South America for that reason. 

    On today’s show, during your words of praise for Pope Francis, you never sniggered once. By contrast, every time you even mentioned Hugo Chávez’s name on Monday, you sniggered.

    Why the respect for the new Pope, but the attitude of levity and gross disrespect for Hugo Chávez?Was it because you had the right wing, trenchantly anti-Chávez Nevil Gibson in the studio with you, glowering at the mere mention of Chávez’s name?

    I wonder how Lindsey Freer would have responded if you had snickered and giggled every time you mentioned the name of the new Pope.

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • Paul 17.1
      14 March 2013 at 9:14 pm

      I think he’s getting worse. Can barely listen to him now.
      Keeps on inviting ACT supporters and other Ayn Rand devotees – they get less than 1% of the vote, but Jim and his director give them far more air time.

      • Morrissey 17.1.1
        14 March 2013 at 9:31 pm

        I think the people ultimately responsible for the selection of these extremely biased, right wing guests—or the “talent” as he likes to call them—are his producers.

        But I don’t think his producers told Mora to guffaw every time he said “Hugo Chávez”; he indulged in that epic display of puerile contempt because he was nervous of the glowering Nevil “Breivik” Gibson. The giggles indicate not so much that Mora is anti-Chávez, but that he has a quite pathetic desire to win the approval of the likes of Breivik-Gibson.

        • Paul 17.1.1.1
          14 March 2013 at 9:42 pm

          Why do you think Mora is so in awe of these people? I note he also fawns over Bernard Hickey and is deseperate to get advice on mortgage rates, and other personal financial advice.

          • Morrissey 17.1.1.1.1
            14 March 2013 at 10:11 pm

            For all his faults, at least Bernard Hickey has an obvious deep knowledge of his subject. The same cannot be said for Nevil “Breivik” Gibson, who on Monday demonstrated that he knew next to nothing about either Venezuela or Hugo Chávez.

            I don’t think Mora is in awe of most of his guests. I think he would (justly) rate his own intelligence above that of most of them. I think Mora’s behaviour, which I find to be increasingly frivolous and determinedly trivial-minded, is the result of both a pathological desire to please, which explains the nervous giggling, and a certain perversity: Mora doesn’t actually believe that Chávez has a “dubious legacy” (as he claimed on Monday) but he was quite prepared to say that if he figured it would win him favour, even with such a crazed and unpleasant ideologue as Nevil “Breivik” Gibson.

            • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1.1
              14 March 2013 at 10:27 pm

              Did you just equate a tory editor and commentator with a psycho mass-murderer?
              Classy.

              • Morrissey …
                14 March 2013 at 11:02 pm

                The Breivik moniker comes not from me, but from another appalled reader of one of Gibson’s hare-brained NBR editorials, where he made the Breivik-style assertion that all terrorism in the world was carried out by Muslims.

                And anyone who has read or listened to his ranting for a reasonable amount of time will be aware that Nevil Gibson is far, far to the right of what any reasonable person would mean by “tory”.

                • McFlock …
                  14 March 2013 at 11:19 pm

                  So he pulled a Prosser. Big gap between that and killing almost a hundred people.

                  And don’t blame other people for the imagery you use.

                  • Bill …
                    14 March 2013 at 11:28 pm

                    Birds of a feather and all of that (whether higher or lower or simply near by). Thought you of all people would understand such pigeon holing McFlock.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 March 2013 at 2:19 pm

                      “near by” is the bit I’m not sure is at all valid, in this case. From an astronomical perspective, may it might be.

                      There are light years between merely being a third-rate tory propagandist, and looking dozens of people in the eye before shooting them.

                • D-D-D-Damn! …
                  14 March 2013 at 11:28 pm

                  Jim Mora’s emphasis on Papal concern for the poor in Latin America:

                  Let’s remember that, as head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the 80s and 90s, the last Pope (Ratso Ratzinger) launched a fundamental attack on those South and Central American bishops and priests pursuing Liberation Theology. The poor were to put up with murderous Far Right dictators and concentrate instead on having a good afterlife.

  20. Te Reo Putake 20
    14 March 2013 at 6:27 pm

    QoT, I think the post you were trying to link to is this one: http://www.greens.org.nz/node/30839

    Is Bill English a CCDer?

  21. vto 21
    14 March 2013 at 7:34 pm

    How many of all the above posters do you think aren’t known beyond their anonymity lprent?

  22. vto 22
    14 March 2013 at 8:03 pm

    Unexpected earthquake observation no. 212: the unusual experience of being rubber necker fodder

  23. Penny Bright 23
    14 March 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013 5:04 p.m.
    To: Tau Henare
    Subject: ‘Open Letter’ to all New Zealand Members of Parliament – re: the purchase of shares in Mighty River Power

    14 March 2013

    Dear New Zealand Member Of Parliament,

    Please be reminded that the final vote on the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Act 2012, was 61 – 60

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/e/8/e/50HansD_20120626_00000012-State-Owned-Enterprises-Amendment-Bill-Public.htm

    A party vote was called for on the question, That the Public Finance (Mixed Ownership Model) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.

    Ayes 61
    New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1.
    Noes 60
    New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 3; Mana 1.

    _____________________________________________________________________________

    1) For the public record, as a New Zealand Member of Parliament, can YOU please confirm – will YOU purchase shares in Mighty River Power, if they become available?

    – YES or NO?

    2) Is this the agreed position of the political party which you represent, as a New Zealand Member of Parliament?

    – YES or NO?

    Please be advised that your reply will be made available to both the media and the public.

    Your prompt response would be much appreciated.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group.

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’.
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Tau Henare
    date: Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:05 PM

    Kia ora Penny

    All I will say is that you are right, the vote was won by us, in fact the election was won by us. Whether I or any of my colleagues purchases shares is neither here nor there.

    Hop you have a nice day.

    Tau
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Hi Tau!

    Perhaps you missed this?

    ” UF (United Future) did not specifically campaign for the ‘mixed ownership model for the electricity companies and Air New Zealand’ because it was not UF (United Future)policy”

    [ Pete George (United Future Dunedin North candidate 2011) (16,292) Says: February 15th, 2013 at 10:28 pm]

    So – upon what do you purport to have a ‘mandate’?

    If MPs buy shares in Mighty River Power – how is that not a form of ‘corrupt practice’?

    ‘Misuse of public office for private gain’?

    Voting for something from which you may personally profit?

    Not a good look for New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’
    (along with Finland and Denmark) according to the 2012 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’?

    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results#myAnchor1

    How many other countries allow MP’s to purchase shares in companies whilst they’re in public office?

    Oh – that’s right.

    NZ MPs don’t even have an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

  24. Morrissey 24
    14 March 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Well done, Penny. Be warned, however, that in trying to debate reasonably with Uncle Tau, you are battling against someone who possesses iron-plated complacency and the moral conscience of a sandfly.

  25. Draco T Bastard 25
    14 March 2013 at 11:24 pm

    While Labour doesn’t appear to be able to state such things without ummming and ahhing, other parties can:

    State Assets to be renationalised