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Open mike 14/04/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, April 14th, 2014 - 260 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

260 comments on “Open mike 14/04/2014”

  1. Not a PS Staffer 1

    in 2008 many Kiwis said: “..this guy John Key is very rich, he must know how to run things, let us follow him..”

    in 2014 some Kiwis said: “..this guy Kim DotCom is very rich, he must know how to run things, let us follow him.”

    Do we ever learn?

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Dotcom’s appeal is not that he is “very rich” it is that he got there by defying the corporate establishment. Key’s wealth on the other hand, was gained by being the very definition of corporate establishment.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        CV +100

        ….and not all rich people/entrepreneurs are bad bad….eg John Lennon, Richard Branson ( friend of Nelson Mandela, admirer of James Lovelock and his Gaia theory)

        ….also Dotcom has done no more than what many other USA companies have done ie have cloud storage …the equivalent of an ocean going container tanker (USA film industry is trying to make an example of him…but it is the equivalent of trying to close down one particular container tanker operating from New Zealand …this is a political move to try and protect John Key from an investigation into his spy laws imo….why dont they start in their own country first ? ..or close down ALL cloud storage?….why pick on New Zealand?….)

        ….disagree with Sue Bradford…already Dotcom has given Mana a lift in the political profile…lets face it, we live in a technological postmodern world ….and the parties of the future will be the parties that attract the youth vote …youth and the internet are the future! …. the old socialist ideals and mantras need a new coat of paint to be relevant to youth…

        …a Mana/ Dotcom Party is perceived as a threat by John Key and NACT!….say no more!.

        • Populuxe1 1.1.1.1

          ….and not all rich people/entrepreneurs are bad bad….eg John Lennon, Richard Branson ( friend of Nelson Mandela, admirer of James Lovelock and his Gaia theory)

          Hippy capitalists with excessive lifestyles are still capitalists with excessive lifestyles, and no one gets that rich without stepping on people and doing bad things.
          http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/richard-branson-defence-virgin-trains

          ….also Dotcom has done no more than what many other USA companies have done ie have cloud storage …the equivalent of an ocean going container tanker (USA film industry is trying to make an example of him…but it is the equivalent of trying to close down one particular container tanker operating from New Zealand …this is a political move to try and protect John Key from an investigation into his spy laws imo….why dont they start in their own country first ? ..or close down ALL cloud storage?….why pick on New Zealand?….)

          No, actually it’s a lot more complex than cloud storage, and while I might not especially life Hollywood’s reasons, if you can defraud the big studios of their unfair IP, you can also do the same to the little guys who get their livelihood from their ideas. Also just because NZ media is boringly parochial, please don’t pretend that NZ is their sole focus – it isn’t.

          ….disagree with Sue Bradford…already Dotcom has given Mana a lift in the political profile…lets face it, we live in a technological postmodern world ….and the parties of the future will be the parties that attract the youth vote …youth and the internet are the future! …. the old socialist ideals and mantras need a new coat of paint to be relevant to youth…

          I’m willing to bet that Sue Bradford has forgotten more about social justice issues than you will ever have occasion to learn. Either there is nothing wrong with socialism as it is, or it needs a complete overhaul to take into account intellectual and digital capital – a new paint job to attract yoof is both superficial and deception.

          …a Mana/ Dotcom Party is perceived as a threat by John Key and NACT!….say no more!.

          • Chooky 1.1.1.1.1

            Pop …i dont think you get where the young are at….it is no longer a b/w world of capitalist versus socialist or Marxist….many young people have their heads in the clouds so to speak ….internet freedom is where it is at….and it is perhaps the new opiate of the people….or at least the opiate of youth

            ….many young people would agree with Mana socialist policies but they are alienated from what they see as politics and politicians…politicians are not perceived as being of their generation or their concerns

            …. and as i say the heads of youth are elsewhere….in the virtual world of the internet….gaming , role playing, entertaining , learning …..their friends may be in different countries

            …..this internet edge ….border crossroads , transitional zone is where political parties must meet them and this is why it is such a brilliant move on the part of Mana to combine with Dotcom ….at least for as long as it takes to help Mna wins seats and WIN this election for the Left

            http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/04/14/what-do-the-nz-left-want-to-do-in-election-2014-replace-john-key-or-sit-in-opposition-for-3-years/

            • Populuxe1 1.1.1.1.1.1

              The young, mostly born after the so-called neoliberal consensus, have been fed bullshit their entire lives – and actually there are strong communities of concerned young people (I’d be closer in age than you I reckon) who are active in social justice. They come in many flavours – green, anarchist, neo-marxist, liberal, indigenous, sovereignist – and they realise the message doesn’t need candy coating. It has expressed itself through Occupy and Anonymous and on any number of fronts.
              The youth that follow in Dotcom’s wake are not like that – they have a sense of entitlement, are libertarian, neoliberal, technocrat, still too young and full of high jinks to go fully conservative, and while some of them are just misguided, others are downright evil.
              Jumping into th earms of one bunch of scumbags to get rid of another strikes me as a Faustian pact at best.

            • Disraeli Gladstone 1.1.1.1.1.2

              I genuinely find the most insightful thing to see what will happen in the future is to see what Bomber says and then make it into the exact opposite.

              For instance, Matt McCarten isn’t definitely the MP for Mana.
              http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/labour-just-lost-mana-matt-mccarten.html

            • idlegus 1.1.1.1.1.3

              thanks chooky, yes~! im in my 40s & a bunch of my online peers are watching this with a lot of interest (we were kids in the late 70s/early 80s).

        • Tracey 1.1.1.2

          sue bradford is sticking to why she joined mana. if she feels that will change she will leave. she wont stay and shit stir behind hones back with an eye on his baubles. I admire that honesty

          • freedom 1.1.1.2.1

            What I don’t get is would it not be wiser for Bradford to stay, work hard towards building a mutually beneficial organisation and see IF having the Internet Party on board changes anything.

            If it does , leave then.

            Seems premature to leave before anything happens.

            • Populuxe1 1.1.1.2.1.1

              I believe it used to be called “standing on principle” – I know we don’t see a lot of it these days.

              • Tracey

                however that doesnt mean her assessment is correct. she is sure as hell entitled to it though.

              • freedom

                I do get that Populuxe1, and certainly wish more politicians had some, but so far, is there anything in the Internet Party pipeline challenging those principles?

                What exactly has the Internet Party done, or suggested it will do, that threaten Mana principles? The Internet Party are a new idea and if the Mana movement can influence their development so they become a strong supporter of principles of the left, surely that is better for NZ?

                • Populuxe1

                  It can be extrapolated from the two known concrete factors about TIP –
                  (1) it is backed by an unscrupulous narcissist neoliberal capitalist millionaire with an extensive criminal past.
                  (2) it’s primary support base is drawn from disenfranchised fanboys from the Pirate Party, Libertarianz and antisocial types that were too much even for National and ACT. Anything with that much appeal for young antisocial white males can’t be good.

                  • freedom

                    Populuxe1, I have no intention of trying to sway you on your 1st point as that is your own interpretation of known events, even if I do think it is more than a little bias, bordering on cliche to be honest. I am however wondering on what you base your 2nd point ?

                    Have you seen a membership list posted somewhere?
                    Did you do one of Pete’s super awesome mystery polls with hi-speed carrier pigeons? Really Populuxe1, on exactly what do you base that statement?

                    I know three people who have joined the IP, and not one of them fit that description.

                    • Populuxe1

                      It’s called spending a lot of time in various political chat groups, twitter and FB. The misogyny, racisim and benne bashing is breathtaking

                • Tracey

                  I agree with you. I have read their fact sheet which makes an alliance with mana make some sense so for bradford it is purely her view of dotcom. the embezzlements may be a particular turn off for her.

            • Tracey 1.1.1.2.1.2

              she has shown in the past she doesnt subscribe to the “mole within the system” strategy.

              it can be soul destroying compromising day after day in the hope of getting your carrot.

              unlike many nat voters who keep thinking they will get the carrot, one day. and dont even realise they are the ass.

          • greywarbler 1.1.1.2.2

            Is that what you call honesty? I think of it as idealistic, unrealistic bullshit and if Sue continues to criticse behind Hone’s back then she is sticking a knife in. With friends like that….

            Weepy, soft Sue, angry at a nasty businessman whose first thought is not social welfare, does not care to turn her mind to ways of getting a working economy which will fund social welfare in all its needs. That must be of slightly bigger importance than a decent social welfare system as it is essential. We must have a better economy, we must have fairer distribution of revenue and must build capacity and skills through trade education, and get the economy cranked up making things that we can sell at a profit, and even assist them to do so with fast depreciation for new machinery, with special tax rates for those companies taking on and training new staff. We might even need some tariffs here and give the trading world the finger..

            Providing decent wages, set hours and reasonable conditions, and some happiness for the greater public is what will help people most. Sue will probably be no loss to Mana if she stays out. Stick to applying the band-aids Sue but don’t throw a spanner into the works of those at the coalface trying to do the hard reality policy work.

            • Tracey 1.1.1.2.2.1

              shes questioning dotcoms association with mana. I am aszuming she spoke at the meeting and to the media so hardly behind hones back. shes done more to help the vulnerable and low income in this country than I have ever done.

              yes I call it honest. I might disagree with her, as you seem to, but that doesnt make her dishonest. you confuse the two.

              • greywarbler

                It’s getting Hone in the back to be quoted on radio hour after hour with her doubts. It’s not a helpful action to diss the Mana Party in public.

                She has done lots for sure, but she hasn’t been able to make a huge difference on her own. She hasn’t been able to turn the tide of degradation of our society felt by those struggling. We need to help each other to retain what we have, even if what we can improve on is a slow process. If her previous ideas didn’t work, she should be willing to try new ones. Going for the purist line is for impractical dreamers – it’s not going to deliver anything – it’s time to be pragmatic. The aim should be to be an idealistic pragmatist. Go for the best available and keep thinking how to achieve reasonable improvements.

            • Populuxe1 1.1.1.2.2.2

              “Providing decent wages, set hours and reasonable conditions, and some happiness for the greater public is what will help people most.”
              In which case whe is perfectly right to criticise and arrangement with Dotcom because he doesn’t even give his own staff that.

      • Anne 1.1.2

        Dotcom’s appeal is not that he is “very rich” it is that he got there by defying the corporate establishment.

        … and that is why I have a sneaky admiration for the man. Anyone who is willing to stand up to the corp. establishment gets a big tick from me.

        Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but Dotcom’s hacking convictions occurred when he was a teenager – a time when many young men get into trouble and then go on to become good citizens.

        Didn’t a brilliant young teenager do similar things in NZ a few years back? Came from around Thames or Tauranga (I think) and he was given a community service sentence. Wasn’t he snapped up by a US government agency because they wanted to use his talents? That apparently is what happened to Dotcom only in his case it was the German govt.

        Its a bit ironic (if I’ve got the story right) that the US are gunning for Dotcom and at the same time they snap up a young Kiwi genius who did something worse – hacked into their military software.

        • Populuxe1 1.1.2.1

          His hacking convictions maybe, but not the embezzlement and other stuff which took place in his 20s+
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

        • Disraeli Gladstone 1.1.2.2

          It’s quite possible a few people lost their savings when Dotcom embezzled to the profit of 1.5m euros when he was 27, not in his teenage years.

          That’s not a man to admire.

          • Tracey 1.1.2.2.1

            or to knight… like mr graham. if nats win election watch banks get knighted over the next 3 years.

        • Chooky 1.1.2.3

          Anne +100…there is a lot of hypocrisy in the persecution of Dotcom

          …and all the Righties are coming out of the woodwork and showing their true colours …when the Right wing which they secretly support has done far far worse

          Dotcom and Mana have the potential to win the Election for the Left

          …although I admire Sue Bradford and supported her leadership contending in the Greens ….i think she should support Hone on this issue

          • vto 1.1.2.3.1

            Isn’t the risk with getting into bed with Dotcom that he may implode in his war with Key and Banks and the National Party and that will heavily tarnish Mana?

            His war with Key and the establishment is far from over and will involve many many more battles. Does Mana want the risk of that staining their positions?

            On the other hand, Mana and similar supporters are already probably pretty die-hard anti-establishment types so such battles many in fact do the opposite and galvanise such support.

            The risk is around these battles of Dotcoms I would have thought…

          • Disraeli Gladstone 1.1.2.3.2

            Interesting to note that Hilda Halkyard Harawira has doubts about this as well. She’s been a strong activist as well.

            When you have many respected activists lining up to say this isn’t the best idea, you should pause, stop, and listen.

            To me, Mana was easily going to take 2 seats and could push for 3, though find it hard. With the Internet Party, they’re now threatening a schism. Will probably still only end with 2 seats. A third seat would now go to the Internet Party and they’re unlikely to reach four.

            They gain very little.

            This is a bad move tactically and on principles.

            • Populuxe1 1.1.2.3.2.1

              I suspect this is a fairly accurate picture
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11237670

            • Clemgeopin 1.1.2.3.2.2

              It is NOT a merger, you get that? An alliance to maximise the vote to get over the 5% threshold to bring in 4 to 6 Mps through the two Mana.Com parties. The parties will remain separate and will canvas separately as two separate parties with separate focus but with a single list of candidates.

              The list could be arranged as 2 to 1 as follows:
              M, M,I,M,M,I, M,M,I……

              With about 5% of party threshold vote (without any electorate seats won), the alliance will be entitled to about 6 or 7 seats….which can be distributed as follows:
              M,M,I,M,M,I=3 Mana + 2 Internet

              If a Mana electorate seat is won and they get say just about 4% combined alliance party vote, that entitles them to about 5 seats:
              E, M,I,M.M =4 Mana +1 Internet

              If a Mana electorate seat is won and they get say about 3% combined party vote, that entitles them to about 4 seats.
              E, M,M,I=3 Mana+1 Internet

              If a Mana electorate seat is won and they get say about 2.5% combined party vote, that entitles them to about 3 seats.
              E,E,I = 2 Mana+1Internet

              If no electorate and less than 5% threshold, then 0 seats!
              One Electorate and less than 1.3% party vote=1 seat.
              Two Electorates and less than 1.3% party vote=2 seats

              The POINT is that there is a much greater chance of getting a much better combined party vote of 5% plus, and hence more chance of being in parliament for both parties with more MPs.

              Elementary!

              They have a greater chance of ending up with lots more.
              This is a very good move tactically and on many commonly held priorities one of which is to kick out the pro wealthy NAT/ACT government. Others include reforming the spying shenanigans, accelerating technology, crating jobs, helping the poor etc.

              • Clemgeopin

                The list could also be arranged as :
                M, M, I, M, I, M, I, M, I….

              • Disraeli Gladstone

                My point is that I genuinely don’t think the Internet Party will get many votes. Feel free to bookmark this and rub it in my face come September if I am wrong. I think they’ll only get 0.5%-1% tops.

                Now, this is all my speculation and not fact (but so is your Mana.com making 5%!)

                I think Mana would have (before any alliance talk) have been looking at 2% with Sykes winning her seat. That means Mana would have 2 MPs and maybe, if they got another 0.5% be looking at 3.

                I think that Mana will lose some votes (not many but a noticeable amount) because of any proposed alliance with the Internet Party.

                So in my opinion, pre-Alliance:
                Mana – 2% – 2 seats (maybe 3 at a push)

                Post Alliance:
                Mana.com – 2.5% – 3 seats (M, M, IP)

                And if that’s true, Mana gains nothing. If anything, they’re more likely to grab a third “Mana” MP by going alone.

                • Clemgeopin

                  Your figures for Mana are way out of present reality.

                  Here are the last 5 polls I found on Curia Reasech:

                  Roy Morgan Early March———————Maori 1,5%——–Mana 0.5%
                  Roy Morgan Mid March———————–Maori 2.0%——–Mana 0.0%
                  Herald Digipoll, March————————Maori 0.2%——–Mana 0.1%
                  One News Colmar Brunton,March ———Maori 0.7%——–Mana 0.0%
                  3 News Reid Reseach, March—————-Maori 1.5%——–Mana 1.1%

                  https://curiablog.wordpress.com/category/nz-political-party-polls/

                  • Disraeli Gladstone

                    We can expect Mana to slightly overperform their polling efforts. Not by much, but by a bit due to the various flaws in pollings.

                    However, even if they are only at 1%, I don’t the Internet Party is going to help an alliance get to the 3% needed for a 4th MP (and a 3rd Mana MP).

                    They’re going to gain nothing from this. But they’re taking some pain internally.

                  • Clemgeopin

                    Also shows how unreliable these media polls are and how faulty their polling methodologies are:

                    In the SAME month of March, WITHIN a few days of each other, the Maori party vote has been shown to be as high as 2% and as low as 0.2% !

                    While, the Mana vote has been shown to be as high as 1.1% to as low as 0.0% !

                    Do not put too much reliance on these media polls.

                    • Tracey

                      no one seems to poll the maori seats which is a shame. mind you national and act dont contest them, so no polls required.

                    • lprent []

                      They do get polled. However there is a basic problem with trying to do it. It is illegal to use the electoral roll for the purpose if you are not a political party.

                      So to legally poll voters on the maori roll, you have to use considerably less than optimal methods to try to acquire a statistically significiant sample size.

                    • karol

                      Doesn’t the Māori TV Service present some polls of Māori electorates?

                      oh, Te Karere also does some.

                    • Tracey

                      thanks karol

        • nadis 1.1.2.4

          can you provide a link to the fanciful claim that:

          “Wasn’t he snapped up by a US government agency because they wanted to use his talents? That apparently is what happened to Dotcom only in his case it was the German govt.”

          Seriously Anne, keep away from the koolaid. Any claim made by dotcom should be heavily parsed before you repeat it.

        • Pete George 1.1.2.5

          Die Velt regularly covers Dotcom news. When Dotcom was arrested in 2012 they profiled his history in Kim Schmitz alias Kimble alias Dotcom alias Dr. Evil

          In English: The Rise And Fall Of An Internet Heavyweight: “Mega” Millionaire Kim Schmitz

          Everything was always mega with Kim Schmitz: MegaPorn, MegaVideo, MegaLive, MegaPix. He was a mega hacker and a mega con man. As it turns out, he was also the guy behind Megaupload, the initial target of America’s sudden anti-piracy crackdown.

          At the request of U.S. authorities, police in New Zealand arrested four people last week for their alleged involvement with the download site megauploads.com. On the photograph released by the police there was – to the surprise of many here in Germany – a familiar face: Kim Schmitz.

          He’s 37 years old now, but he still has that baby face, still dresses in black, and is still twice the size of anyone around him. Schmitz is an Internet legend who for years has been off the radar. A hacker, race car driver, investor, playboy: Schmitz the outlaw became a multi-millionaire when the Internet was drawing megalomaniacally high investments. Schmitz is one of those dotcom golden era guys who were part of the reason the boom turned out to be an exploding bubble.

          Now he’s changed his name to Kim Dotcom aka “Kim Tim Jim Vestor,” and he’s back on the radar as the driving force behind a global file sharing site that was illegally putting TV series, movies, music, porn, and software out there.

          Schmitz was born in 1974 in Kiel, Germany, and grew up in northern Germany. His father piloted the luxury cruise liner “MS Deutschland.” His mother was a chef. He attended a posh boarding school, the Staatliche Internat Schloss Plön, and got his first computer when he was nine. Because gaming software cost too much for him to buy, he figured out how to make illegal copies and went into business selling them to friends for a few marks a piece.

          He left a calling card every timed he hacked: two skulls and the name Kimble. And he patted himself on the back: “I’m smarter than Bill Gates,” he said. “I’m going to be one of the richest men in the world.”

          It goes on to cover all his arrests. Not quite a Mana constituency.

          • Tracey 1.1.2.5.1

            that might need some fact checking pete. joking aside why not get all your politicheck people onto what is truth and fiction about this guy.

          • Tracey 1.1.2.5.2

            die velt is not necessarily impartial pete.

            part of a multi billion dollar multi media company.

            wikipedia states

            ” Axel Springer AG refused to publish advertising campaigns of theLeft Party in 2005 as well as of the socialist PDS in earlier elections.[15] “

            • Pete George 1.1.2.5.2.1

              Not sure what relevance that is (apart from of course any publication can have it’s impartiality questioned). I doubt Dotcom would have been seen as a left wing target by Die Velt.

              Much the same stories here (and elsewhere): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_dotcom

              See also Metro Magazine’s The Complete and Utter History of Kim Dotcom

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                …as historian of science Daniel Kevles showed so effectively in his book The Baltimore Affair, it can be hard to detect a fraudulent signal within the background noise of sloppiness that is a normal part of the scientific process. The question is, Do the data and interpretations show signs of intentional distortion? When an independent committee established to investigate potential fraud scrutinized a set of research notes in Nobel laureate David Baltimore’s laboratory, it revealed a surprising number of mistakes. Baltimore was exonerated because his lab’s mistakes were random and nondirectional.

                What can we say about Petty George’s “mistakes”?

                Are they “random and nondirectional”?

              • Tracey

                do you understand that some multi media companies might target someone like dotcom, and maybe beef up the negative biography because he threatens their econnomic or ideological position? take the chance to put the boot into someone that might harm their business model.

                are you that naive?

                when you last posted this populuxe and others posted by way of reply that it wasnt a posh private school and the date on the ms deutchland didnt appear to match, but you reposted the full quote with no mention of tnis.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.5.3

            The MS Deutschland was launched in 1998. The so-called posh school was a state run publicly funded dilapidated heap.

            Petty George is a really shit fact checker.

            • Tracey 1.1.2.5.3.1

              last week i posted that i wasnt sure if pete is naive or stupid. i dont think he has the credentials to lead a political fact checking site. an editor is pivotal. fact checking is more than going to wikipedia.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Not naive, not stupid: the embodiment of banal dishonesty.

              • I was quoting Die Velt, if you prefer to automatically take One Anonymous Bloke’s word (absent any evidence) for it over their’s it’s up to you.

                “so-called posh school was a state run publicly funded dilapidated heap” –
                http://www.butenploener.de/schule/das-ehemalige-internat/

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Not my word, Petty G, Wikipedia’s.

                  “Its use as accommodation left its mark on the old castle, which became increasingly dilapidated. Advice in 1986/1988 showed that the site needed major investment and would only be saved from ruin by spending tens of millions of deutschmarks.”

                  Note that this is around the time KDC would have attended, as opposed to 19thC red herrings. Banal, dishonest.

                  • Did you see what Tracey said? “fact checking is more than going to wikipedia”.

                    I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. Does going to boarding school in a run down castle prove he grew up in poverty? Excuse Dotcom from his hacking?

                    What point were you trying to make about MS Deutschland. His vater had his alcoholism under control enough by 1998 to be trusted to pilot a luxury cruise ship?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Don’t you get it, dim-bulb? The article you quoted attempts to peddle a line about KDC that doesn’t stack up when the “facts” are “checked”. That’s all. Not “posh”, not a captain of MS Deutschland at any time prior to 1998, ie: during the time period relevant to KDC’s narrative.

                      You do understand how “fact” “checking” works don’t you, little dim-bulb?

                    • miravox

                      Last sentence, OAB… wasted.

                      Pete (Donald Rumsfeld) George thinks he knows how fact-checking works, but we know he doesn’t know, and also that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know while trying to sneer that he does know what he doesn’t know.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      If Petty George had a fraction of Rumsfeldian qualities he wouldn’t be so tedious, and would be far less likely to argue with all the wit of a blancmange.

                    • miravox

                      Fair enough, I agree Rumsfeld argued with more wit than a blancmange.

                    • You’ve barely checked anything OAB.

                      Die Velt said “Kim wurde auf das Plöner Schlossinternat geschickt” – he was sent to the boarding school at Plön Castle.

                      Staatliche Internat Schloss Plön – a state boarding school, as the links show it’s not an ordinary city or town high school, it was a boarding school located at an historic castle.

                      A German source has described an Internat as a “special school for special children”.

                      In 1969 Der Spiegel said it cost 300 marks per month to attend Internat Schloss Plön. If Dotcom attended it would have been in the eighties. It’s possible he could have had a scholarship.

                      Court documents from his first arrest in 1994 confirm he attended Internat Schloss Plön (a Gymnasium is a more academic school) from second year (usually about 10 years old) until he graduated at 17 with a better than normal diploma.

                      It wasn’t an ordinary school for average or impoverished German kids.

                      “My mother had to work three jobs to feed us. I would go to bed hungry, often, and I would eat toast with sugar, and I would eat toast with ketchup”.

                      That may refer to earlier in his childhood – family circumstances can change, and at some stage Dotcom’s parents divorced. If he attended Internat Schloss Plön it suggests that not all his childhood was impoverished.

                      After he left school he lived in an apartment and was given an allowance of 1200 marks per month by his mother who was now with a stepfather. That’s a substantial allowance. He wouldn’t live with his father due to alcohol problems.

                      Die Velt also says Dotcom got his first computer when he was 9. That was 1983, even basic computers weren’t cheap then, a ZX81 was about $300 in New Zealand but to expand from a paltry 1 kb of RAM to 16 kb cost about another $200.

                      Die velt says “Three years later, well before the World Wide Web was available to everyone, Schmitz used 12 telephone lines to hack into other computers” – Dotcom would have been 12 then, obviously with some resources.

                      This barely scratches the surface of Dotcom’s childhood, but it doesn’t sound like an average Mana member family lifestyle.

                    • Be careful about relying on translations.

                      Die Velt wrote “Kim wurde auf das Plöner Schlossinternat geschickt”. That doesn’t say “posh”. The translator may have assumed posh because Schlossinternat implies a flasher then normal school, a boarding school in a castle.

                      The MS Deutschland reference may not be very relevant to Dotcom’s childhood, especially if it was his father and not step-father, as by 1994 his parents had divorced and his mother had remarried. It was a very minor part of the article.

                      Sein Vater steuert das Traumschiff “MS Deutschland” – navigator (the translation said pilot) of a luxury cruise ship even if in 1998 suggests Dotcom’s father was a qualified and trusted person (on the job) and must have worked (and earned) up to that earlier on.

                    • bad12

                      If what you are saying about DotCom is true George, that at the age of 12 He used 12 different phone lines to hack into computer systems even befor the web was an established fact of life i would suggest we are talking about what is pretty much a ‘child genius’,

                      Who really cares tho what DotCom got up to as a kid in Germany, they like us have a system where childhood crimes are wiped from the record,

                      Do i detect a streak of envy running through your narrative on DotCom where even in politics this man has in a short space of time risen to political heights You have only dreamed of for far too long without success,

                      As i told You in a conversation way back in the piece, You should have mounted a palace coup against ‘the Hairdo’ Peter Dunne,(it was obviously the only way you were going anywhere in politics),

                      Too slow by far you are now consigned to the wilderness…

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      🙄

                      State run publicly funded ≠ posh no matter how much irrelevant drivel you pile upon it, Petty George.

                      I know you’d love the Die Welt narrative to be true, but it isn’t. The court documents even verify the father’s alcohol problems.

                      So far a fact checker would note that more of KDC’s narrative stands up to scrutiny than the Die Welt narrative does, but then, as I’ve already noted, you aren’t a fact checker’s arsehole.

                      The way you’re obviously pushing a particular line on KDC confirms that.

                    • miravox

                      “I was quoting Die Velt,”

                      Maybe I’m slow, but what on earth is ‘Die Velt’? My little German translation book doesn’t have it, nor does google.

                      Edit… ohhh thanks, OAB – it’s Die Welt? Is that a fact?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Petty George is confusing regional pronunciation with spelling.

                    • miravox

                      I would have thought he’d check before writing the name of such an authoritative source…

                    • miravox

                      Of course, sorry to harp on, but Pete, you didn’t check your source, it’s hearsay – literally – . That’s why you wrote ‘velt’ instead of ‘welt’.

                      I really am a bit slow today.

                    • Tracey

                      and going to a right wing publication is the beginning and end of your “fact checking”?????

                    • Tracey

                      “The MS Deutschland reference may not be very relevant to Dotcom’s childhood, especially if it was his father and not step-father, as by 1994 his parents had divorced and his mother had remarried. It was a very minor part of the article.”

                      So if something is “minor” it doesn’t have to be accurate?

                    • I don’t know what you mean by that Tracey. German websites and German court documents and personal German sources are hardly all “right wing publications”.

                      And unlike OAB apparently, I agree with you when you said “fact checking is more than going to wikipedia”.

                      And it’s a lot more than claiming “going to a right wing publication is the beginning and end” when it clearly isn’t correct.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      🙄

                      I wonder if Petty George really believes I didn’t check Wikipedia’s sources before quoting them.

                      Mehr als 34 Millionen Euro, davon 11,8 Millionen aus den Mitteln des Regionalprogramms Schleswig-Holstein, mussten investiert werden, um den historischen Gebäudekomplex zu kaufen, rückzubauen und instand zu setzen.

                      “…rückzubauen und instand zu setzen”, eh.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      So, to re-cap, following KDC’s account of his “Boo hoo, sugar sandwiches, beatings, poor me” childhood 😈 :-

                      Petty George dribbled, with typical tiresome weasel equivocation, of KDC: “Not quite a Mana constituency(sic).”

                      He offered a translation of a Die Welt article in support of this statement. The article claims that KDC Sr. was a luxury cruise ship captain and KDC went to a posh boarding school.

                      Neither of these Petty George factoids stand scrutiny, so his statement “not quite a Mana constituency” not only mistakes a constituent for a demographic, but clearly also demonstrates bias, sloppy research, and a careless attitude towards the truth.

                      Petty George does not deserve this much attention, but the position of editor at Politicheck does not deserve Petty George, and that’s a fact.

                    • You haven’t disputed the claimed fact his father was navigator of a cruise liner.

                      You haven’t disputed the fact that he went to a Gymnasium boarding school in a castle for up to eight years (‘second year’ to age seventeen) and graduated with a better than average diploma.

                      It’s not surprising that repairing an old castle might be expensive. And that the cost of repairs might be too much for a school.

                      That doesn’t change the facts suggesting that Dotcom went to a better than average type of school, boarded for up to eight years, was a better than average student and got a better than average qualification. And after that was supported by what looks to be a generous allowance from his mother and stepfather. Those details are supported by a 1994 court document.

                      He may well have had tough times in his childhood – drunk and violent fathers can be horrendous to live with – but he seems to have come out of it alright. Good on him and his mother for that. There’s some similarities to Key’s childhood story.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      🙄

                      Luxury cruise ship launched in 1998.

                • Tracey

                  “be careful about relying on translations”

                  is this a translation

                  Open mike 14/04/2014

                  Did you know poor children go to Auckland Grammar School Pete?

                  • It appears to be sourced from a translation. It is introduced with “Die Welt charts the unusual career of a “dotcom” legend”.

                    It is appended with “Read the original article in German”

                    And it follows the same structure with similar content, albeit adapted. Here’s a sample paragraph.

                    Die Welt:

                    Im Januar 2002 wird Kim in Bangkok verhaftet, nachdem er angekündigt hatte, live im Internet Suizid zu begehen. Wegen Insiderhandels wird er zu einem Jahr und acht Monaten Freiheitsstrafe verurteilt. Nach dem Urteil wurde es still um ihn. Schmitz kündigte immer wieder neue Projekte an. 2007 bringt man ihn erstmals mit Megaupload in Verbindung, erst 2011 bestätigte er, der Gründer des Dienstes zu sein.

                    Google translate:

                    In January 2002, Kim was arrested in Bangkok after he had announced to commit suicide live on the internet. Because insider trading, he is sentenced to one year and eight months imprisonment. According to the judgment, it was quiet around him. Schmitz announced repeatedly on new projects. 2007 bringing it for the first time in connection with Megaupload, until 2011, he confirmed to be the founder of the service.

                    Worldcrunch version:

                    He was arrested in Bangkok in January 2002 after he announced he would be committing suicide live on the Internet. He was convicted of insider trading and sentenced to a year and eight months of prison. After this, things quieted down around Schmitz, although periodically he announced new projects. His name was first associated with Megaupload in 2007, but it wasn’t until 2011 that he was confirmed as its founder.

                    Translating from German to English requires re-ordering and rephrasing for readability, but that risks losing some of the original intended meaning and is open to interpretation.

      • Populuxe1 1.1.3

        If by “defying the corporate establishment” you mean “being equally as much a scumbag amoral capitalist neoliberal criminal” – yeah, sure. Presumably it was a similar appeal for Ross Perot and Ron Paul – snake oil for shallow thinkers predicated on the false dichotomy that “my enemy’s enemy is my friend,” when in fact it’s probably more like “out of the frying pan and into the fire”. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy – no more, no less.

        • freedom 1.1.3.1

          Perot and Paul are chalk and cheese. But since you mentioned him, yeah, Ron Paul, what a bad guy. Imagine having what is arguably the most socially democratically and constitutionally consistent voting history of probably any Senator of the modern era. But I do hear, that just for fun, he also juggles puppies blindfolded over live alligator pools.

          Later, when you have explained your point number 2 re Mana*, maybe you would be so kind as to regale us with why Ron Paul, the highest polling senator never to get a Presidential nomination from his party, is such a bad guy?

          *

          <

          blockquote>
          (2) it’s primary support base is drawn from disenfranchised fanboys from the Pirate Party, Libertarianz and antisocial types that were too much even for National and ACT. Anything with that much appeal for young antisocial white males can’t be good.

          • Populuxe1 1.1.3.1.1

            This would be Republican conservative libertarian Ron Paul, yes?

            • freedom 1.1.3.1.1.1

              well, I never said he was perfect 🙂

              but standing up to war carries a lot of weight with me

      • MaxFletcher 1.1.4

        “Dotcom’s appeal is not that he is “very rich” it is that he got there by defying the corporate establishment”

        What rubbish. He is the embodiment of the corporate establishment.

        • Populuxe1 1.1.4.1

          They eat their own

          • Chooky 1.1.4.1.1

            ..when NACT wolves in sheepy lefty wool start supporting Sue Bradford …i would be worried if i was her

            • bad12 1.1.4.1.1.1

              Bradford going public through the media simply allowed the wolves to use Her, had She kept Her opposition to the proposed alliance ‘in house’ such use would have been impossible,

              Did Sue know that She was being used, you decide, if yes, then it shows that Bradford was also using the media in a quid pro quo to further Her agenda,(whatever that is)…

      • felix 1.1.5

        “Dotcom’s appeal is not that he is “very rich” it is that he got there by defying the corporate establishment. “

        A number of people seem to have taken objection to this statement but I don’t think many have understood it.

      • Naki Man 1.1.6

        The fat German became rich by paying people to upload stolen property to his website so he could charge his customers for access to that stolen property. Anyone who is impressed by this is pond scum. Key on the other hand used skill to legally make money not steal it from other people. The fat German only appeals to people who don’t know what he did and people who think stealing from Authors, Musicians etc is cool.

  2. Philj 2

    xox
    They know how to enrich themselves only. Unless you are a trickle down believer. Everyone works for PeterJackson, KDC or John Keys security guards.

  3. Belladonna 3

    Someone on $14hr said to me recently she votes for the Nats as John Key is a businessman. I think many people have the perception that he is good at managing the economy. The left need to point out the true state of the economy.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      National solely work for the top 5% of the population yet get almost 50% of the vote. There’s some clever stuff which goes into that.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        Psychopaths always seem so genuine and nice.

        • Paul 3.1.1.1

          Just shows how uniformed NZers are and how distracted and dumbed down by the media’s relentless focus on sport and celebrity.
          How are Kate, William and baby George?
          How’s that game or rugby going with Richie McCaw?
          And the wine tasting?
          And the jet boating?
          And the America’s Cup ‘race’?

          Saturation celebrity news has warped the thinking of NZers.

  4. Ant 4

    Another great showing by independent political commentator and Prime Minister John Key on Morning Report.

    Great to see allowing that very shitty format of Key acting as a vox pop and framing stories is now on National Radio.

    🙄

    • Olwyn 4.1

      Yes my jaw dropped at that as well.

    • mickysavage 4.2

      You can see what Key’s instructions are …

      “Repeat ad nauseum … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … the Greens are anti growth … “

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

        And we need to be pointing out that growth is finished, that it’s unsustainable and, most importantly, that it hasn’t got rid of poverty as has been promised for decades.

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1

          Well, they can continue to manipulate the statistics and externalise/ignore the massive costs incurred in order to produce the appearance of growth. All the 0.1% want to do is skim off the best for themselves and leave polluted tailings for everyone else to deal with.

          • vto 4.2.1.1.1

            That is a very apt analogy CV – the 0.1% take the 1 part in 1,000,000 that is the gold and leave the toxic pile of tailings for everyone else to deal with. Examples include;

            Polluted rivers in New Zealand for the ratepayers and taxpayers to clean up while the farmers take the cream.
            Banks take ever higher profits while leaving taxpayers with the bill for their GFC bailouts.
            Investors in South Canterbury Finance get their investment money paid back to them by the taxpayer.

            Gold for the elites, toxic tailings for the taxpayer …..

        • geoff 4.2.1.2

          What also needs to be pointed out is that when Key says the greens are anti-growth he’s actually hoping we’ll hear ‘the greens will make you poorer’.

        • Tiresias 4.2.1.3

          ‘Growth’ is merely a measure of the economy.
          ‘The economy’ is merely what economists choose to measure.

          3 “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” – Krishnamurti

        • Tracey 4.2.1.4

          economy law and order. economy law and order.

          • Weepu's beard 4.2.1.4.1

            They’ve done well in massaging the numbers of both. It’s now up to the opposition to take those numbers apart and not just in the debating chamber, but out in public too.

      • ianmac 4.2.2

        “The Greens are anti growth…” I kept waiting to hear Suzie ask Mr Key just what did he mean? Evidence? But she didn’t want to embarrass the poor man did she.

      • Olwyn 4.2.3

        My concern was less with his predictably saying “the Greens are anti-growth,” than with his suddenly popping up as a crypto-political analyst, as if his being PM was neither here nor there. This is the guy who refused to go on National Radio when there was the slightest risk of his being asked to answer for himself. It is a different matter, however, when he is able to go unchallenged in delivering a self-serving party promotion in the guise of political commentary.

        • geoff 4.2.3.1

          You have to give credit to National, they’ve done an exceptionally good job of loading public positions with their toadies.

      • srylands 4.2.4

        Yes that is because the Greens’ policies are the antithesis of growth, regardless of their intentions. They are also “anti freedom” and most definitely detrimental to the poor.

        The Greens are a bigger threat to personal freedom than the GCSB will ever manage!!

        • freedom 4.2.4.1

          Oh wow, what are you on srylands? Been doing some Autumnal fungi hunts?

          What you just wrote suggests you are looking in a mirror, and reality is staring back at you wearing a pasta-bake bobble hat and suspenders made of braided dental floss.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.4.2

          Continued exponential growth will kill everything including us. Seems to me that we should be getting rid of growth (it never did as promised anyway) and going to a steady state economy with far better distribution policies.

        • Tracey 4.2.4.3

          this government is anti freedom, and i am sure you know some of the “best” examples of countries espousing the market forces have poor records with freedom.

      • Naki Man 4.2.5

        “The greens are anti growth” that is the understatement of the year. The green taliban are economic terrorists.

        • McFlock 4.2.5.1

          The Standard – where tories have been stroking each other’s delusions since 2007…

  5. Here is an excellent article from Ellen Brown, writer of a web of debt about the reserve bank system, about why we, like every other government who got screwed into buying Collateral default swaps and other scammy derivatives, are up shit creek without a peddle unless we denounce the odious debt this creates and start printing our own currency again.

  6. On the Internet mission it’s looking like Harawira’s way or the highway.

    He was happy that Mana had seen “hundreds and hundreds” of new members sign up since the party had begun talks with the Internet Party.“You win some you lose some.”

    “Will there be resignations, quite possibly. There haven’t been today.”

    “There’s always going to be people who come in and out for various reasons and that’s fine.”

    “We can’t determine Mana’s future on the feelings of one activist or another.”

    And despite the vote to go to party consultation is it already a done deal?

    Mr Harawira indicated the final decision would be made by senior party figures rather than a wider vote.

    “It will probably be made by the executive in the final analysis.”

    • Hamish 6.1

      Oh gawd…. the attention-seeking, nitwit’s daily attempt at getting a rise is here..

      You are fucking pathetic.

    • This gets even more bizarre – Harawira’s wife wary of Dotcom link

      Mana leader Hone Harawira’s wife, veteran activist Hilda Halkyard-Harawira, is among party members concerned about a likely alliance with the Internet Party.

      Halkyard-Harawira raised her concerns about the alliance in a closed session yesterday at the party’s conference in Rotorua, with Harawira confirming she remained wary of it.

      “She’s wary of the deal and understandably so. She sees it from not just a perspective of a Mana member or the wife of the Mana leader but from a long history of involvement in politics and activism,” Harawira said.

      He said his wife, who declined to comment, shared the concerns of others about the potential watering down of what the movement stood for. She told members yesterday she was worried about the mana of the movement being diminished by relationships with other parties.

      Protecting that was important and the leaders needed to be wary of guarding that credibility, Harawira said.

      “The funny thing for me is that I can convince the whole of the movement but if she says no, it’s probably no.”

      Regardless of what “the whole of the movement” thinks it could come down to one person’s say? What position does she have in the Mana movement?

      • captain hook 6.2.1

        look pete geroge. why dont you try peddling this stuff on whaleboils blog.

        • Pete George 6.2.1.1

          They’d just laugh.

          John Minto said:

          It will be an important decision for Mana and could be a very important decision for the country.

          http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/04/14/mana-and-the-internet-party-strategic-alliance-or-wtf

          The credibility of the left bloc could be at stake here – Russel Norman’s early warning about the risks of the Internet Party to the left’s chances of forming the next Government should be taken seriously, but Mana mania about Dotcom may mash that.

          • Anne 6.2.1.1.1

            Mana mania? You mean MSM mania. All MANA is doing is considering the offer of an electoral alliance which is as normal as bread and butter. Our political history is littered with alliances of one sort or another going back to 1840!

            What’s more it may never happen. You’re part of the mania mate, so stop hanging it on MANA.

          • bad12 6.2.1.1.2

            We might conclude George that you could be said to have vast experience via your association with the ‘black hole in space of New Zealand politics’ Dis-United No-Future with a total lack of credibility when it comes to political parties having burned all their credibility by engaging in unions of political convenience in the desperate dance of trying to retain a shred of relevance upon the political dance floor,

            Do you really envisage Mana becoming a hollow shell of meaningless drivel akin to the Party that held you in its tainted thrall for so long, wait tho, that aint quite right is it, the Party you pinned your star too having started from a point of espousing meaningless drivel from its formation simply reached its intended zenith which was to simply espouse meaningless drivel and became subsumed in its own cess-pool of that…

            • Populuxe1 6.2.1.1.2.1

              No, but I do see a lot of MANA travellers recoiling at the thought of of a rich white man suddenly having a lot of influence in a party founded to counterbalance exactly that.

              • Tracey

                its cool that they know about dotcom

                god only knows some big monied people are pulling strings in nat and act… and some may have convictions… but its all secret and stuff

              • bad12

                Actually you don’t see a lot of ”Mana travelers recoiling”, you see Sue Bradford throwing a hissy fit and walking out of the annual hui,(along with i assume Her little group of hangers on),

                The real question is ”what policy will Mana drop to entertain the alliance with the Internet Party”, i would suggest none,

                The fact is that Mana will continue as far as i can see to be exactly the same Party it is now, the difference will be the advertising for the party vote an alliance with Internet will undoubtedly bring to the 2014 election,

                As Hone has pointed out such an alliance might mean a few leave the Party, however the publicity so far from just the discussions with DotCom over the proposed alliance has seen the Mana membership jump by several hundred

                Advertised as Mana DotCom or Mana/Internet throughout the election on a nationwide basis, such advertising i doubt Mana is capable of funding, should see a far greater turnout of voter for Mana,

                If this alliance does not result in any better results for Mana than it gained at the 2011 election then it will be easily dissolved and Mana will still be the same Party that it is now…

                • Populuxe1

                  And that’s exactly what the Maori Party said when it hooked up with NACT

                  • bad12

                    What is exactly what the Maori Party said when it hooked up with National???, provide some proof of the assertion too otherwise your comment is just more hot air blown…

                • Disraeli Gladstone

                  Hilda Halkyard Harawira is also voicing concerns about the deal.

                  By focussing on Sue Bradford’s dissent, we’re silencing the voices of Maoris within Mana who are uncomfortable with any prospect of the alliance. They’re already be forgotten about in their own party and the alliance hasn’t even began.

                  • bad12

                    There are no Maoris within Mana, there are only Maori and a variety of other New Zealanders…

                    • Disraeli Gladstone

                      I honestly still get lost with if the plural is with an s or not. Writing “Maoris” make me cringe because I can hear Michael Laws’ voice pronouncing it, but writing “Maori” makes me seem like its wrong.

                      Is it Maori for plural? I’ll keep that in mind.

                      Honestly, cheers, Bad.

                    • bad12

                      Maori is both the singular and the plural Disraeli, to differentiate the words te(the singular), and, nga(more than one), are used in the language…

                    • Feel free to copy and paste the macron too

                      Māori

                    • Something I’ve been meaning to do for a while is make it easy to type macrons, copy/paste can be a nuisance.

                      This site shows you how to do it in Windows 7 and Windows 8
                      http://cpitlibrary.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/how-do-i-add-macrons-for-the-maori-language-in-my-documents/

                      Then ā and Ā can be typed directly with a preceding `

                    • thanks pete

                      I find building up a document with a list of words that have macrons is good because it reminds me of the words that have macrons. Personally I try to add the macrons even when commenting here because it defines the way the word is said and for a spoken language that is important but I do despair about the lack of macrons used by most.

                    • bad12

                      Actaully Marty i don’t feel free to copy and paste anything coz i wouldn’t have a clue how to,

                      i am a happy computer illiterate, my use of it reflects my basic needs, and spoken Reo don’t come with macrons included so i am sure i will get by,(might try the macron one on someone tho, should get me a laugh or two)…

                    • We need to get you on a course bad – can’t have non-macroned Mana Movement graffiti or posters going up lol

                    • bad12

                      Lolz Marty, i was thinking along the lines of a letterbox drop across at least the electorate i live in,

                      Simple a4 production in black and white, 3/4 of the page with a piece of black and white art which will make people want to keep the sheet, last quarter a register to vote message along with the 0800 number and the www to get the forms with the last line being a BIG party vote Mana,

                      i know where to scrounge/find the materials to print them just waiting to see if i can get an ok to do it…

              • idlegus

                & a lot of us mana travellers are not recoiling at the thought. i was also curious to hearing what gareth morgan had to say, & wish there was some way he would align himself with mana too. ppl are too uptight sometimes, considering also that there are a lot of criticism from ppl who dont even vote mana what business is it of theirs. (of course the members are worth listening too, but not via the herald or tv3 etc…).

                • bad12

                  True idlegus, those who have identified themselves here at the Standard as Mana voters or thinking of voting Mana have all expressed solidarity with Mana continuing to explore the proposed alliance with the Internet Party,

                  i can only see positives in such an alliance through the Internet parties ability to advertise with i will presume the Mana brand at the forefront,

                  Obviously both parties realize that their policy platforms even aligned with a Labour/Green Government will be hard to push through and both Mana and Internet will have for the small wins,

                  i fail to see how the Mana party Policy will be diluted in any way through such an alliance and the only risk i see is that after gaining an MP off of Hone’s coattail an Internet Party MP was to leave the alliance,

                  That risk tho is faced all the time by all the parties in the Parliament…

                  • Chooky

                    actually INTERNET FREEDOM is crucial to a DEMOCRACY…it is perhaps one of the most important issues of our time….especially on issues such as globalisation, monopoly capitalism, free debate

                    ….just think what one can learn from the internet and how much authorities with a totalitarian bent would like to control, censor….. close down an open internet …or make it user pays ( to them) and so restrict full public access

                    …the free open internet fills in many of the gaps and omissions of the mainstream media

                    as just one example .. ..a free open internet provides people the ability to think critically about the pharmaceutical industry…and take charge of their own health decisions….(just think how much multi national multi billion dollar pharmaceutical companies would like to censor and close down open debate/ critiques and counter research , people sharing adverse effects / experiences etc which cut into their profits)

                    …in some ways the issues Dotcom is promoting are the most important issues for all New Zealanders and their democracy , freedom of thought …regardless of what party they belong to

                    ….So go Mana/ Dotcom !

          • rhinocrates 6.2.1.1.3

            They’d just laugh.

            They’re not the only ones.

      • karol 6.2.2

        The impression I get is that there are a few dissenters within Mana – and there seem to be more leading women dissenters than men. The negotiations are still being negotiated among the party members – a healthy sign.

        • Tracey 6.2.2.1

          and we have that impression because their processes are reasonably open.

          • Disraeli Gladstone 6.2.2.1.1

            Worryingly, Hone has suggested the final decision will not be taken by a full membership vote but by a vote of the “senior executive”.

            • Tracey 6.2.2.1.1.1

              yup.. sounding like the act board or uf… nz1 and national.

              but we are still geting insight.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.2.2.1.1.2

              Probably isn’t time for a full membership vote on it considering the constraints of the date of the election.

              • Disraeli Gladstone

                If there isn’t time to give the members their voice in the matter, maybe they shouldn’t go ahead with it?

                • bad12

                  Are you a Labour voter Disraeli, apply what you have just said to everything that Labour, a much more organized and monied party does,

                  Seems pretty patronizing to be demanding standards of a party you do not belong to when it has taken nearly a century for Labour to get around to even putting a share of the vote for party leader in the hands of members,

                  All parties make major decisions based upon the vote of delegates and/or those at the head of electorates or branch offices…

                  • Disraeli Gladstone

                    I honestly haven’t decided what way I’m voting yet. There’s not a party for me. Maybe Labour. Maybe Greens. Voting Greens would be a hell of a step for and my economic centrism but, I don’t know, I like what I’m hearing from them. And Labour’s hardly inspiring. National’s gone too far right. NZ First I could never vote for with its conservatism.

                    I thought Mana was a party big on doing things from the grass-roots. Heck, I’d expect Labour or Greens or National should canvass their members and allow a vote on such a big decision as an alliance with another party and would criticise if they didn’t.

                    I find the way National elects their leader to be relatively medieval.

                    • bad12

                      The alliance with the Alliance, did Labour put that to the membership, the gifting of Epsom to ACT, National put that to the members did they,

                      The offer by the Green Party to form a united Labour/Green campaign for the 2014 election went out to the members,

                      Political parties make major decisions all the time without conceding a vote to the members, that’s why they have delegates, to represent, or misrepresent the views of the members Lolz,

                      i would suggest the true test of the Mana proposal to align with the Internet Party in this alliance will be best judged not by Sue Bradfords continual appearance on the TV news to diss the idea but by the number of members Mana have signed up by the time the final decision is made…

                    • The Al1en

                      “i would suggest the true test of the Mana proposal to align with the Internet Party in this alliance will be best judged not by Sue Bradfords continual appearance on the TV news to diss the idea but by the number of members Mana have signed up by the time the final decision is made”

                      It will also prove the two maxims that fools and their money are easily parted and the enemy of my enemy isn’t always my friend. 😛 😆

                    • bad12

                      Alien, it will probably also prove to you once and for all that you are the fool, what makes you think there need be money changing hands in the proposed Mana/internet alliance…

                    • The Al1en

                      “what makes you think there need be money changing hands in the proposed Mana/internet alliance”

                      Erm, I was talking about the hyperthetical new paid up members you were going on about.

                      “it will probably also prove to you once and for all that you are the fool”

                      You may wish to revisit that one in light of the previous answer, but then maybe not. I’ll accept you misunderstood with good grace.

                      You should also take notice of the razz and lol 😉

                • freedom

                  Or maybe they drive some clearly marked pegs into the Autumn ground, and step forward as two groups willing to try to work together to build a stronger Aotearoa.
                  A land that is truly of the modern age, so full of just divergences that the blueprints for the road ahead cannot be easily mimeographed into existence. By Spring we will know. And anyway, isn’t failing always better than never trying.

            • Clemgeopin 6.2.2.1.1.3

              Why is it worrying you? Are you even a member of Mana?

              If the members and braches give the leaders the approval to go ahead with the alliance, why can’t the executive make the finer details of the nitty gritty? Are you a troll? or just a nitwit?

              • Disraeli Gladstone

                Correct me if I’m wrong, but the media reports said the branches (not the members) gave approval to begin the process of negotiating an alliance with the Internet Party. They did not actually vote the approve the potential alliance.

                • The branch vote was to proceed to membership consultation, not to go ahead with an alliance. Hone Harawira has since said the end decision would be probably be made by the party executive, but was later reported saying if his wife said no “it’s probably no”.

      • miravox 6.2.3

        “This gets even more bizarre – Harawira’s wife wary of Dotcom link”

        Bizarre? Why?

        Is it because married people (or a married woman) can analyse a situation and come up with a different viewpoint and voice some concerns?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.3.1

          Think of a new definition of the word “bizarre” – in this context it is a sign of bland, banal, petty dishonesty on the part of its author.

  7. mickysavage 7

    Felix Marwick has just tweeted “It’s amazing how shy the PM & ministers are about divulging contacts with political blogs. Specific names and timeframes – still declined”.

    I hope he keeps digging!

  8. mickysavage 8

    I wonder how Cameron Slater’s case with Mat Blomfield is going …

    And if Judith Collins is busily distancing herself from Slater …

    • Weepu's beard 8.1

      I suspect Judith Collins is having a quiet word in the judge’s ear.

    • mickysavage 8.2

      Well blow me down …

      NBR is reporting that Matt Blomfield, the guy suing Cameron Slater in defamation, was attacked by a male on the weekend and may have suffered facial injuries from a gunshot.

      That defamation case is going to get a whole lot of analysis now …

      • Tracey 8.2.1

        is that a tui sign? Has anyone noticed tui aren’t doing their pithy yea right signs anymore< or at least not ont heir prominent board above ellerslie motorway…

        Probably a good thing, cos they are not exactly pro left

        • mickysavage 8.2.1.1

          Nope fair dinkum article although it seems too bizarre to believe …

          • Tracey 8.2.1.1.1

            gun fired… facial injuries, someone running from the scene… we know it wasn’t slater for 2 reasons;

            he does little of his own dirty work, he does the dirty work of others; and;

            the suspect was “running” from the scene

          • lprent 8.2.1.1.2

            http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-called-to-home-of-former-Hell-Pizza-franchisee/tabid/423/articleID/340063/Default.aspx

            This is just outright weird.

            An investigation is underway after a high-profile Auckland businessman needed hospital treatment at the weekend.
            Police were called to a property in Greenhithe on Saturday night after reports two men were fighting and that a gunshot had been heard.

            Matthew Blomfield has confirmed to RadioLIVE police were called to his home and that he was taken to North Shore Hospital with facial injuries.

            The 38-year-old owned a number of Hell Pizza franchises until 2008, before they went into liquidation, and has been credited as being the brains behind the chain’s controversial marketing.

            Last year, Mr Blomfield took a defamation case against Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater.

            Bearing in mind the number and severity of attempts that have been taken against Blomfield over the last couple of years, this looks pretty disturbing. The paid for (at least that is what it looks like to me) defamation campaign against Blomfield at Whaleoil in 2012 (and by assertions by the chronically moronic legally illiterate dickheads at Laudam Finen more recently) after ‘someone’ gave Cameron Slater his hard disk and documents to make copies from. Then the crap that has been going on with a defamation case arising out of it which has been characterised by Cameron squirming to not disclose where he received those stolen materials from.

            I guess the police are going to have quite a lot to go on. Hopefully Cameron isn’t involved in the vendetta campaign this time. Bad look for bloggers. Maybe he is a journalist after all?

  9. Jan 9

    Can anyone explain the rationale behind WINZ’s rule change which effectively stops people from using their computer to log onto their account in order to declare any extra income, or check their payments ? My son developed muscular dystrophy at about 45 and had to give up his high-paying job (and his driving licences). He got onto an Invalids Benefit after a lot of procrastination from WINZ who tried to give him heavy lifting jobs miles away from home. So he and his wife get $171 each per week, oops sorry $174 with the $3 April 1 increase. This muscle wasting disease means he should have someone round to care for him, but the pressure for his wife to find work has been enormous and of course she can’t get paid for caring for him as he is her spouse ! That’s using their marriage vows as pure and simple blackmail.

    I asked my son why he didn’t declare all his wife’s earnings – $16 per hour as a hotel cleaner – online, he said he had been till the change in rules. Now when you wish to log in you first have to obtain a text from WINZ containing a code to enter before logging in – a new text each time of log-in. But they don’t have a useable cellphone because they have no coverage where they live, though it is a built-up area just a few minutes drive from the CBD of a large town. Back to the landline which of course they have to maintain.

    He has now received the results of an “annual audit” which claims he has been over-paid $800 + and his wife $200 + and he has no idea why ? He has faithfully supplied his wife’s earnings every week and had his benefit adjusted each week to accommodate for this income. How did they manage this over-payment ? He will be paying it back at the rate of $21 per week for a long time he has been informed

    Why are we punishing a sick and desperate man and his wife ?. And yes, if he can get someone to drive him into the local WINZ office he gets as much help as other people have been describing lately – none – it is his fault for getting ill apparently.

    • karol 9.1

      Now when you wish to log in you first have to obtain a text from WINZ containing a code to enter before logging in – a new text each time of log-in. But they don’t have a useable cellphone because they have no coverage where they live, though it is a built-up area just a few minutes drive from the CBD of a large town.

      I had to deal with that whole txting of codes palaver when I applied for superannuation online – it’s a bit of a nightmare – obviously meant as a security thing – but also to cut down on clients getting person to person interaction. And there was a fault in answering one of the application questions online. I talked to a support guy on the phone about it, who tried to enter the answer for me, then declared it an error in the system.

      It was a hassle for me with good mobile coverage, and no limitations such as muscular dystrophe. WINZ should be the first place that takes note of such special circumstances, and have alternative systems, and more staff available for direct contact.

    • Tracey 9.2

      problem is that people like bm and his ilk will say they are sorry for your son and this shldnt happen but by voting the way he does to punish the mythical bludgers…. he happily punishes your son.

    • Bill 9.3

      He will be paying it back at the rate of $21 per week for a long time he has been informed

      All other things being equal (ie, no other repayments on the go) ….can I suggest he informs WINZ that no, he will not be repaying the $1000+ at a rate of $21 per week, but will be repaying at an amount arrived at through dividing the $1000+ by 104 as per repayment ‘policy’ of WINZ that allows for repayments to be spread over 2 years?

    • Chooky 9.4

      …this is why the government must change

  10. Clemgeopin 10

    If the Mana.Com alliance goes ahead, who among you will be voting or at least consider voting to help them get over the 5% threshold, and why or why not?

    Personally, I would like to do that, but my loyalty first to the Labour party is too strong and more important. I will wait to see how the future media polls go. I do wish we had two party votes! One of mine would most certainly go to Mana.Com.

    • karol 10.1

      Will be voting Green – a strong Green Party is needed in the House. Mana.Com is an unknown quantity. I would consider voting Mana alone but not with the whole unknown .com factor of political newbies.

      • Populuxe1 10.1.1

        The MANA Meltdown:
        Chocolate on the outside, vanilla ice cream on the inside, and a gooey sauerkraut centre.

        • Chooky 10.1.1.1

          sounds like a popsicle

        • marty mars 10.1.1.2

          It isn’t choc on the outside dimpop but so great that contribution of yours, it’s a real classic, a keeper, wow how the hell did you come up with it – in the bath like Archimedes, under a tree like Newton, riding your bike like Hoffman – come on spill the beans – how did you do it – IT”S BLOODY UNBELIEVABLE.

      • Pete George 10.1.2

        Sue Bradford:

        She said she supported some Internet Party policies, such as its total opposition to the TPPA, and cheaper and more accessible broadband for all. However, Ms Bradford noted other parties, including the Greens, had similar policies. If Mana was going to ally with anyone, discussions with the Greens would make sense.

        Greens look to be by far most prepared and organised of the parties on the left, why are the other parties pushing in different directions? Do they see the Greens too much as competition?

        • felix 10.1.2.1

          Presumably because politics is a market of ideas, and not a race to align with someone else’s ideas just because they seem more organised.

          What a strange question.

        • Tracey 10.1.2.2

          did you not understand clems question?

        • karol 10.1.2.3

          There is an understandable series of negotiations and re-alignments within opposition parties as fitting for MMP. It suggests there’s an underlying social change in the air, with opponents to the current government, and the neoliberal consensus, examining their values and priorities.

          This is a healthy sign and part of an intriguing set of developments.

        • Tracey 10.1.2.4

          maybe because they are about presenting their sets of principles rather than treating their party like a horse in a race?

          you seem a bit stuck in the win_lose as only construct mindset

    • Paul 10.2

      Green is a more reliable place for my vote.
      Labour sadly still under control of neoliberal doctrine.
      Mana second pick.

    • Tracey 10.3

      I am voting green for party vote and national for electorate .

      • karol 10.3.1

        My electorate vote is a little undecided – probably will go to the Labour candidate, but I’m in the new Keslton electorate and don’t know who any of the candidates are.

        • Tracey 10.3.1.1

          understood. I am in epsom. dislike mr goldsmith but will do my bit regarding act. nat voters would vote for a 3 legged pig wearing lipstick if it stood for act.

          • Populuxe1 10.3.1.1.1

            Yep that’s good – I bet there will be quite a few disenfranchised Nat voters who are pissed off by the situation too. Perhaps the anti-ACT forces should combine to run Mr Goldsmith’s campaign for him, seeing as neither he nor National want that. It would be rather a lot of fun!

          • Clemgeopin 10.3.1.1.2

            Screw National by Screwing National in Epsom by voting National in Epsom.
            Good thinking. Happy screwing!

        • Draco T Bastard 10.3.1.2

          I suspect we’ll see Carmel Sepuloni as the labour candidate for Kelston.

      • freedom 10.3.2

        Was wondering … What does National offer you that secures your electorate vote Tracey?

        • Populuxe1 10.3.2.1

          It’s a strategic vote. National runs a weak candidate in Espom to guarantee ACT a seat thereby shoring up their electoral numbers. Voting National in Epsom would totally screw over National.

          • Tracey 10.3.2.1.1

            thanks pops. spot on.

            • freedom 10.3.2.1.1.1

              now Standard readers who may be unaware of how simple tactical voting is, have a clear example to apply to their own circumstances.

              who says the net can’t be educational ?
              see what i did there? 😉

          • Tracey 10.3.2.1.2

            they put him on their list and he campaigns for the party vote for national… and then goldsmith gets a column in a local mag as though he is epsom mp.

            • Populuxe1 10.3.2.1.2.1

              Not to mention a hefty fee for writing biographies of ACT notables.

              • Tracey

                Ah yes, how could I forget. I am almost 100% certain, that it is always Mr Goldsmith writing for the magazine and not Epsom’s actual electorate representative, Mr banks.

                Just how much work for Epsom has he been doing???

        • Clemgeopin 10.3.2.2

          Gives her the golden chance of screwing two parties, NAT and ACT, at once!

    • lurgee 10.4

      “If the Mana.Com alliance goes ahead, who among you will be voting or at least consider voting to help them get over the 5% threshold, and why or why not?”

      Voted Mana in 2011 (in 2008 I spoiled my ballot, scrawling ‘Give me a proper leftwing party to vote for’ over it – so when Mana came along, I felt obliged to vote for it!) but very worried about this IP tie up.

      I think anything bad that emerges about .com (and I think there will be a lot of bad) will be used to attack Mana by association. At best they’ll end up looking gullible and foolish. Perhaps they;ll look venal and greedy – like every other politician that has come into contact with .com.

      And so instead of getting 2 or 3 Mana MPs in as I would hope for, it might be a case of Harawira as a singleton again. So I’m really, really wondering if my mighty vote would be better placed elsewhere.

      • Clemgeopin 10.4.1

        You have made good points there.
        Your concern is understandable and valid, but is unnecessarily pessimistic because the Mana leadership is strong and sincere in their own aims and their supporters trust them on that.

        Can Mana not make it clear to their members, to Dot.Com and to the country that
        (1)they will let the justice system deal with Kim.Com and not interfere with that,
        (2) their interest is in forming, not a merger, but an alliance for the election to get the 5% threshold to increase their presence in parliament and give the Internet Party an opening to pursue their important policies of getting rid of National, Increasing technology, reforming the spy laws, help creating more jobs, making the Internet better, faster and cheaper?

        That should make it clear where Mana stands Vis-à-vis The Internet Party.
        I am ok with that.

  11. Marty 11

    Well, look at this http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/high-profile-auckland-businessman-attacked-home-vy-p-154744 (sorry, paid)

    “NBR ONLINE understands high-profile bankrupt businessman Matthew Blomfield was hospitalised following an attack at his home on the weekend.

    NZ Police has confirmed two men were involved in a fight at an address in Greenhithe on Saturday night.

    Spokeswoman Beth Bates said a gunshot was heard and a 38 year-old man – understood to be Mr Blomfield – was found with facial injuries. He was taken to hospital and has since been discharged.

    She says the offender had fled by the time armed police arrived. The offender remains outstanding and unidentified but inquiries are continuing, police say.

    The bankrupt Mr Blomfield was a multiple franchisee with Hell Pizza until 2008 when he closed all five of his franchised outlets after a dispute with TPF Group, which became the master franchisees for Hell New Zealand in 2006.

    Mr Blomfield ran the pizza chain’s edgy marketing campaigns through his advertising company Cinderella Communications, which was put into liquidation in 2008.

    The businessman is in the midst of defamation proceedings against Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater.”

    It’s not cool to speculate, but this does seem to have a high level of coincidence about it. Wonder if everyone involved can account for their whereabouts at the time.

    • Tracey 11.1

      can’t catch a break…

    • Puckish Rogue 11.2

      More likely that Blomfields dodgy and had dealings with the wrong people

      • McFlock 11.2.1

        legal dealings, for example

        • Puckish Rogue 11.2.1.1

          Anythings possible when theres no information but I’d suggest it most likely he ripped off the wrong people

          • McFlock 11.2.1.1.1

            lol
            Of course you would.
            But it’s not like “there’s no information”. We know of one court case he is involved in against a noted sleaze-merchant for hire.

            Whereas your “most likely” scenario requires you to invent wrongdoing by the apparent victim.

            But I’m sure the police are considering all possibilities, including the ones on public record and whatever you feel the need to imagine.

    • joe90 11.3

      From Blomfield’s statement posted here at TS late last year.

      As recently as Thursday this week she received anonymous text messages stating “Headhunters are waiting”

      When the wolf cries boy

  12. greywarbler 12

    Another of our manufacturing arms closing down – in Christchurch. Processes wool for carpets. Workers specialised skilled people. Will not be able to get similar work probably, and indeed probably not any skilled work. The reasons – the down turn in Australia, our high dollar, and the Australian bank is calling in its loans as they have been losing money for a while, and will be unlikely to recover next year. How about a NZ State Bank that uses the SOE profits to support basic manufacturing that assists the sheep farmers to stay in business.

    Sheep are not water hungry like dairy, and it would be good to have somebody farming for other than milk. Just a bit of four year wisdom – a year beyond just the next election. And by the way, stabilise that damn NZ dollar. Everyone here that has a working brain knows that we have a shitty economy, balanced on a knife edge just ready for some bad news from some bio problem. The sort that will have us killing cows in the field as those great NZ farmers in Chile recently were doing (to male calves). What a good bit of animal husbandry example to show how good NZs really are!

    We can’t ensure that there is work in our maniac econoimy for people with skills. We are almost back to a scenario form the early 20th century in 100 years. Work, build up, scorn our efforts, argue about practices nose to nose with unions, destroy the economy, deny workers reasonable conditons and wages, allow big spending by importers to flood the market with overseas goods creating huge imbalance between export income and expenditure, allow huge credit advances, rely on consumer spending using borrowed money. And then allow housing to be the only business initiative, apart from computing IT, so that housing is a fragile bubble, allow farms to be over-priced for locals to buy and only for Deep Pockets from overseas or Local Squires with unsustainable borrowing creating a farm bubble.

    Finally adopt cargo cult mentality waiting for the big planes to come in and drop off tourists and Overseas Investors, while borrowing heavily overseas and smiling or telling us that we are going through a recession and frowning at our childish impatience at wanting regular meals and our questions as to why we pay these Chief Executives so much money to just stir the porridge pot of our lives, and who are content to go further and create a maelstrom.

    Meanwhile the locals sell trinkets, bits of their country and ultimately themselves. We haven’t got into the sex tourism trade in an organised way. That will accompany the casinos business, dragging more money out of NZ and foreigners pockets and often out of the country. The thinkers at the top are probably leaving prostitution to organised crime. Better perhaps if we managed it as disorganised entrepreneurship, and let the workers co-ops run it. I’m just reading Havana Bay by Martin Cruz Smith, and in this book Cuba has a thriving trade in prostitution. When all other business is priced out of the market, what else is there.

  13. greywarbler 13

    I was not impressed with the Espiner interview of Hone this morning. Hone was explaining something and about to go into detail when Espinder cut in with the question about what he was going to say, then repeating it so Hone couldn’t speak further.. What an annoying little git Espiner is. That’s my opinion so far. He is pretending he is the hard questioning guy who gets the answers – he’s just a poseur.

    I contrast this with Kim – this weekend she read out some of the more stupid critiques of her interviewing. One said stop interrupting you argumentative cow. Very amusing, and revealing much about the writer’s lack of finesse when critiquing. Kim does interrupt sometimes as she tries to get some deeper philosophical understanding of the viewpoint, or check points before deciding to overturn her own long-held conception. And sometimes she just wants to debunk a poseur who has arisen on the crest of some ill-advised popularity. But she is deeply interested, and rarely goes for shallow questioning attacks such as the one by Espiner this morning.

    • Populuxe1 13.1

      One recalls the disasterous Pilger interview…

      • ianmac 13.1.1

        Pilger is great but Kim was being the devils advocate and Pilger completely misunderstood. They had a halftime break in that interview and Pilger had changed his annoyance to be much more informative.

        • Molly 13.1.1.1

          Watched the interview when it was broadcast, and Kim did not come across as devil’s advocate to me – just ill-prepared and snarky.

          • greywarbler 13.1.1.1.1

            I doubt that Kim is ever ill prepared though she might be snarky. Everyone that doesn’t see things from Pilger’s viewpoint is a cretin to him I think.

            And I was actually discussing Espiner and brought Kim up as a contrast. It’s Espiner that is the important matter at this time – the new bright star on Radionz show. Actually at that time of the morning the stars are fading and so are my hopes for fine interviews. Geoff Robinson is a hard act to follow. But mentioning follow, and I think of that London ditty about dillying and dallying instead of following the van and now she’s lost and can’t find her way home. Well I hope all is not lost now Robinson has gone. What do you think about Espiner. Did anyone hear him interview Hone this morning. Is there anyone out there?

    • Tracey 13.2

      quite the contrast to keys interview

  14. ianmac 14

    “Labour leader David Cunliffe has signed up well-known lawyer Deborah Manning into a senior role in his office.”
    This is another good step. Great.

    • mickysavage 14.1

      Stand by as all the RWNJs dig through the interweb and find something Deborah said that was not very nice about David years ago.

      There are a few things they do not realise about him. He seeks talent, not yes people, he does not give a dam if they have criticised him in the past and he is intensely loyal to his staff. I agree that it is a good decision.

  15. bad12 15

    Native Affairs on Maori television tonight shows what lengths Slippery the Prime Minister,(everyone’s favorite 5000 dollar dinner prostitute),will go to to cling to the Office He so disrespects,

    TV3 news have highlighted the Maori Party, Nationals pet lapdog holding flash $5000 a head dinners at a posh Auckland ‘gentlemen’s club’ with Slippery as the star attraction…

  16. Yet you’re okay with Kim’s lap dog German sausage sizzling fund raiser in Rotorua?

    • bad12 16.1

      Funds changed hands or agreements were made to have funds change hands Alien???, Your a simple Liar,(the emphasis should perhaps have been on the Simple),

      Good to see you keep exposing your right wing bias tho…

    • greywarbler 16.2

      German sausage is good, affordable, definitely not $5000 cost. You don’t want to have half-knowledge about the sausages and think like a brat, the whole word for them is bratwurst.

  17. Dolly dimple I might be, but liar, definitely not.

    So if Kim’s not bringing his wallet to the ‘allaiance’, what’s the point of him being involved?
    Don’t let blind devotion get the better of you, B12.

    And right wing bias my arse 😆

    • bad12 17.1

      What funds were raised by anyone in Rotorua on the weekend Alien, hence Liar,

      Your a bit simple alright shall i spell it out for you slooooowly, there need be no money changing hands,

      If an alliance occurs all that will need happen is instead of DotCom spending the election 2014 advertising budget on promoting the Internet Party a name change will mean the budget whatever it is will be spent upon promoting the Mana/Internet Alliance or perhaps even the more catchy Mana .Com Alliance…

    • marty mars 17.2

      “but liar, definitely not.” lol that was a lie right there – much lols at your fixation with your nether regions – seems you can hardly make a comment without going down there.

      • The Al1en 17.2.1

        “but liar, definitely not.” lol that was a lie right there – much lols at your fixation with your nether regions – seems you can hardly make a comment without going down there.”

        Kim’s lap dog German sausage sizzling fund raiser – That’s a classic marty mars, and that’s no lie 😉

        • marty mars 17.2.1.1

          Classic fail maybe – it doesn’t even make sense – what does the ‘lap dog’ bit mean – I’m sorry but I don’t get it – should I read it with Benny Hill music going or something. Come on allen you’re usually a bit funnier than that – lift your game lad.

          • The Al1en 17.2.1.1.1

            Though you won’t agree, dotcom buying Hone makes him Kim’s lap dog, the Rotorua testing the waters meet up, the German sausage sizzle.

            Nah, you got it, you just don’t like it. Big difference.

            Now if you are still letting the people decide, invective aside, is there anything else I can do for you while we wait apart from pointing out the obvious?

            • marty mars 17.2.1.1.1.1

              “dotcom buying Hone makes him Kim’s lap dog”

              tut tut tut you really are messed up aren’t you, so bitter, so sad.

              Yes “the people decide” is still the way it will go and I’m happy with that.

              Sorry for making you (lol) explain a little more about the lies you’re smearing around – just wanted to make sure i understood the depth and breadth of your spin.

              • The Al1en

                It’s an opinion based on us, on the left, not liking it when big money buys politicians for their own end, so not spin, just like it isn’t a lie or a smear.
                It may be proved right, it may be proved wrong, but at least we have definitive proof that enemies of enemies aint necessarily friends. Funny that 😉

                So agreeing to disagree, invective aside, have you got anything else?

                • Well i always try to put ‘imo’ to indicate that it is just my opinion and not a fact – you often write stuff as if it was factual when really it is just your opinion. It could be a cultural thingy – dunno, you may have some thoughts on it.

                  You’re okay in my book allen – at least you’re a real person, with individuality and personality – it’s just the fact/opinion thingy above which gets a rise out of me.

                  As for the Mana/TIP hoodacky – I am still undecided about it but I am supportive of further discussions and I trust Hone, Annette and John. I know you dislike Hone a lot but is John really someone whose views and positions you don’t admire or respect?

                  • The Al1en

                    I do write as I see it, same as most do with their opinions on here. Doubt it’s cultural, but I promise in future I will put ‘fact’ in capitals when writing something that isn’t just opinion. FACT.

                    As for the ‘hoodacky’, I trust .com a lot less than you do Hone, who I also don’t dislike as much as you may think.

    • The Al1en 17.3

      “What funds were raised by anyone in Rotorua on the weekend Alien, hence Liar”

      Meet

      “if Kim’s not bringing his wallet to the ‘allaiance’, what’s the point of him being involved?”

      And say hello to

      “instead of DotCom spending the election 2014 advertising budget on promoting the Internet Party a name change will mean the budget whatever it is will be spent upon promoting the Mana/Internet Alliance”

      Ta da 😆

  18. BM 18

    Bad look by Cunliffe doing a no show on Campbell Live.

    I was actually quite interested in having a look around the Herne bay mansion.

    Don’t expect any favors from Campbell from now on.

    • idlegus 18.1

      bollocks, celebrity crap. total respect from me (& to dunne & peters ignoring the invitation too) for not buying into this false tv bullshit. keep the families out of it.

    • miravox 18.2

      Although they’re perfectly entitled to show people where they live, that bit of creepy voyeurism right there, BM, makes a valid reason for politicians to refuse to open up home up their homes to a TV show and tell.

  19. bad12 19

    Lolz, what a steal what a deal, The Maori Party get a big pay day from the five grand a seat ‘dinner’ obviously helped every step of the way by Slippery the Prime Minister(for sale) and the National Party,

    It’s obviously election year and Maori Tv’s Native Affairs is obviously going to have a ball, exposing the hypocritical Maori Party to all the viewers, many of them former members of what once was a large Maori Party set the bells ringing in my mind signalling the end of that parties political dream sold out for a seat on the leather of the Ministerial Beamers,

    The commenter’s, Mike Williams, Paddy Gower and the Green Parties Marama Davidson(more on Marama tomorrow),didn’t quite, in my opinion hit the nail on the head about what the National party expect as the ‘pay-off’ for Slippery the PM raking them in what could have been a cool 70 grand from the five grand a seat dinner,

    Paddy Gower and Mike Williams,(indeed a stranger pair commenting on Maori television you couldn’t find anywhere, but, it worked sortta), seen this largesse from our PM to the Maori Party as a simple buy of the Maori Party support after the 2014 election,(a desperate buy of some pretty shoddy goods at that), me, i dont see it that way, Slippery i believe has just bought Him and the National Government a 70 grand insurance policy for the next six months,

    Should Banks the already convicted get another one, conviction that is, at His High Court trial in May we all know that its Haere Ra Banks outta the Parliament into ignomity and invisibility, along with that tho Slippery the PM and National have the prospect of Governing at the whim of Mr Drama Queen himself, the ‘Hairdo’ Peter Dunne,

    That’s what i see as the PM having just ‘bought’ from the Maori Party, the ability to keep Governing up until the election without handing the Opposition any grand victories from being able to block what’s left of the Governments Legislative program until the Parliament is dissolved for the upcoming election,

    i don’t think the PM is buying anything from the Maori Party past the election simply because i don’t believe that the party will have any MP’s after it and being outed on Maori TV ‘lushing’ it up with the Pakeha elite to the tune of five grand a seat with not a party member in sight will have just about hammered the last nail into that particular political coffin…

    • karol 19.1

      It was a strange and sad sight to see what has become of the Maori Party. It was a party that got a strong start, with values and processes linking them strongly to their electorates.

      It was a very strange panel – how did Gower get into that mix? I did agree with his point that the fundraiser had the National Party/Key’s stamp all over it.

      It was also interesting to see the younger Tau Henare and Winston (I was not in NZ during that period. How accurate is Henare in his judgement that Winston still harbours a grudge against the National Party from those times?

      • Hamish 19.1.1

        Are we talking about Farrar and the winebox men stitching up Winston in 2008?

      • bad12 19.1.2

        To a certain extent yes Karol, but, i always seen the Maori Party was going to be a tool for Auntie Tariana to get utu from those in Labour who She seen as having wronged her,

        The shame of it,and, i have commented on this befor as having happened to me with Labour, is the burning of all those young people who had for that brief moment a political party that carried with it their kaupapa, like myself being burned by Sir(spit)Roger Douglas, having to my shame stuffed letterboxes to help get them elected, it will take years for many of them to even think about re-engaging with the political process,(many of them probably not bothering),

        The Party had the feet on the ground from a huge group of young people here and the Maori Party was the only one door knocking asking for votes,(as i told them then, sorry i cant as i see the party supporting National which got me some odd looks),

        The flags and the bumper stickers were everywhere and six months later they had all disappeared to be followed by Te Tai Tonga back to Labour,(yes a sad betrayal is the best i can ascribe to the Maori Party MP’s),

        Tau with the silver tongue, silver it may be but still one forked like that of a snake, it’s an interesting question, on the surface we all might believe that Winston couldn’t/wouldn’t work with Slippery the Prime Minister full stop,

        Of course a cynic,who me, would suggest that Peters despises Henare more then He does the National Party, and the barbs that were an irregular feature of a watch of the Parliaments Tv between the pair suffered a definite curtailing with purpose,

        If you add Henare’s slide down the National Party list,(prompting Him to walk),to the above, with cynicism, you could believe that National are mopping the floor clean for Peters attempting to make their side of the House as user friendly for Peters as they can…

  20. Having just taken quite a long time reading through all the great posts on this page, I would like to ask one question:

    What is the difference between what Kim Dotcom did with Megaupload and what YouTube is currently doing?

    Perhaps the following link may shed some light…

    http://tinyurl.com/megalink1

    Thanks! 🙂

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