Open mike 14/08/2011

50 comments on “Open mike 14/08/2011 ”

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1. Carol 1

   14 August 2011 at 7:03 am

   Some major brands, which had been promoted as gangster chic, have taken a PR hit as a result of being the main target for looters in the UK riots. Adidas & Nike are a couple of those brands. Now the corporates that own these brands are scrambling to develop counter-PR strategies. Meanwhile, some marketers are looking for further ways to exploit the associations with looting and the riots for more intensive gangster chic marketing.

   http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/uk-riots-gangster-chic-brands

   Branding experts are warning that the riots are a wake-up call for the fashion brands that JD Sports stocks. They have cultivated a “gangster chic” image and found themselves targeted by looters across the country. Mark Borkowski, a PR and branding expert, said that image was now coming back to haunt them.

   […]

   Borkowski said brands have been aligning themselves with gang and criminal culture for decades but ramped up their association with less clean-cut figures in recent years.

   Adidas will next week launch an advertising campaign featuring rapper, gang member and convicted criminal Snoop Dogg. The Adidas Originals advert also stars fellow US rapper Big Sean, who was charged with sexual assault last week.

   [..]

   Ritson agrees that the most-stolen brands will receive “extra street cred” from their association with the riots and looting.

   “Some brands may acquire extra street cred because they were part of it [the unrest],” he said. “It’s remarkable, but for brands that are targeted at the young, pissing off a lot of older people will actual increase the brands’ appeal to the young.”
   • Bored 1.1

     14 August 2011 at 9:55 am

     With all the arrests the next fashion is likely to be Black Bloc…

     What this entails is covering everything in black including the face, working to established and known anti police and anti arrest tactics in unison without leadership, and not knowing or being able to incriminate your fellow rioter.

     Black may become very chic.
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

       14 August 2011 at 10:50 am

       And on the way to and from the gathering, simply put on a nice ADIDAS RWC top and pretend that you are a NZ rugby supporter!
   • freedom 1.2

     14 August 2011 at 10:38 am

     “What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?”

     Plato, 4th Century BC
     • higherstandard 1.2.1

       14 August 2011 at 10:58 am

       I s’pose civilizations have had similar problems throughout history. Many of the comments out of Rome prior to its slow decline are indistinguishable from what you read today on blogs and letters to the editor.
       • mik e 1.2.1.1

         14 August 2011 at 1:49 pm

         At least the Tory finance minister Osbourne has admitted the problems cause has been Deprivation in these communities BBC world news this morning!
       • mik e 1.2.1.2

         15 August 2011 at 3:28 pm

         Lowerstandard from Rome today Berlusconi raises tax by 10% on the rich by 7.5% on interest and shares!
     • Akldnut 1.2.2

       14 August 2011 at 3:52 pm

       8,000 Years of Anti-Social Behaviour

       Definitely not something new, more than likely just enhanced with modernisation.
       • grumpy 1.2.2.1

         14 August 2011 at 4:23 pm

         This, from a much better commentator…..

         http://www.city-journal.org/2011/eon0810td.html
         • Puddleglum 1.2.2.1.1

           14 August 2011 at 7:58 pm

           From your link:

           “The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form. A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice. It believes itself deprived (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class), even though each member of it has received an education costing $80,000, toward which neither he nor—quite likely—any member of his family has made much of a contribution;”

           I’ve highlighted the bits I disagree with. The pronouncements of intellectuals and the political class (at least one part of it)’ and so-called welfare dependency are not the issue in so many ways it’s hard to know where to start. But I’ll try.

           First, welfare systems existed long before so-called ‘intellectuals’ were supposedly telling anyone they had a right to a “high standard of consumption” and didn’t lead to these kinds of riots.

           Second,  most ‘intellectuals’ and many left-wing politicians have decried the focus on consumption and wealth as the measure of a person. There is so much critical literature on consumer capitalism I barely know where to start.

           Third, missing from this analysis are those other – apparently innocent – purveyors of the values of consumerism: marketing(!!! – hint, it’s the whole point of marketing!), advertising, PR and right wing politicians – such as Richard Prebble who said on Nat Rad, after the 1997 Asian crisis, that anyone (like the Greens) advocating against consumption were ‘traitors’, and George Bush persuading Americans to show the terrorists what for after 9/11 by going shopping!! Consumerist, self-centred lives  – welcome to late capitalism.

           The only critical and informed appraisal of consumerism and materialist, individualist, me-first values and ideology has consistently been from the left.

           Notice also, that the so-called cause of all modern problems – lefty-liberal 60s/70s ideology – only came along after a post-War economic boom and decades of attempts on the part of industry and the state via the advertisers/marketers deliberately to shift values away from ‘production values’ (work, save, be watchful of expenditure) and towards consumption values (self-focus, immediate gratification, hedonism, ok with debt).

           It’s been deliberate, grumpy – and not on behalf of the ‘intellectuals’. Weren’t you aware of that? 
2. Colonial Viper 2

   14 August 2011 at 9:11 am

   IMF on Trial: an Al Jazeera Panel Discussion

   http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/empire/2011/08/20118483924329911.html
3. joe90 3

   14 August 2011 at 9:20 am

   Same here?. Yup, I reckon.

   http://www.alternet.org/vision/151850/8_reasons_young_americans_don't_fight_back_–_how_the_us_crushed_youth_resistance?page=entire
   • Bored 3.1

     14 August 2011 at 9:48 am

     There is a lovely label on the last point of the article fundamentalist consumerism ….gets you thinking does it not? Gotta have the latest, the label, the look….all of which transcend the individual.
4. Dave Kennedy 4

   14 August 2011 at 9:45 am

   Great ideas put forward for the repair and development of Christchurch, the Prime Minister describes it as a wish list only, but a half baked job won’t lead to a strong recovery. Lets have some intelligent thinking and do what has been shown possible elsewhere in the world:
   http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/08/intelligent-citiesintelligent-economies.html
5. vto 5

   14 August 2011 at 9:54 am

   In 2007 in the USA there was $773,000,000,000 ($773 billion) in circulation.

   In 2011 in the USA there is $1,030,000,000,000 ($1.03 trillion) in circulation.

   There is now one third more printed money in existence.

   The Federal Reserve (that privately owned organisation tasked with money manufacture in the US) in 2007 owned $985,000,000,000 ($985 billion) in assets.

   In 2011 it owns $2,850,000,000,000 ($2.85 trillion) in assets. These were bought with money that it printed.

   Just some minor wee facts for a Sunday morning pondering ……………………
   • Bored 5.1

     14 August 2011 at 9:57 am

     Complies with the golden rule…he who has the gold makes the rules.
     • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

       14 August 2011 at 10:48 am

       This will soon be true again. NB the golden rule states who holds the GOLD not who holds the USD 😀
   • Colonial Viper 5.2

     14 August 2011 at 10:47 am

     Not forgetting those figures are all in USD. Which obviously isn’t worth as much as it used to be for printing reasons. The price of GOLD directly reflects the ongoing debasement of the USD.

     Now here’s the question which really screws things up.

     If there is an extra $230B in circulation, but the Fed printed an extra ~$1900B to buy those dodgy assets…who pocketed the difference???.

     I wonder if you are reading the same websites as I am 🙂
6. Anne 6

   14 August 2011 at 10:26 am

   Former Governor General, Sir Paul Reeves has died.

   I guess that means a certain person who is making a big campaign speech – ostensibly to the Party faithful – will not make the No.1 spot on the TV news this evening. That will p–s him off!
   • prism 6.1

     14 August 2011 at 5:36 pm

     We have lost a good hardworking thoughtful and principled man now that Sir Paul Reeves has died, ex Governor General and worker for a good constitution for Fiji, that was bypassed on spurious grounds by coup leaders. He was trying to help them fromulate a constitution that would ensure their diverse nationalities all had a voice but no outright monopoly.
     • Anne 6.1.1

       14 August 2011 at 6:26 pm

       He was trying to help them formulate a constitution that would ensure their diverse nationalities all had a voice but no outright monopoly.

       Agree prism.
       I guess he was too good for Fiji’s coup leaders.
       I watched TV One’s presentation of his life and times, and was glad to be reminded he stood up to the Rogernomes in the late 1980s when it was fashionable to be a Rogernome. That took courage which he had in abundance. It’s the people who have such courage in the face of adversity who are remembered by history – not the hypocrites who pander to the lowest common denominator.
7. freedom 7

   14 August 2011 at 11:17 am

   here is a nationwide Fox News on-line poll that strangely enough was removed from Fox News’s site
   possibly because it completely contradicts the findings of their headline straw poll ?
   http://www.topix.com/issue/fox/gop-debate-aug11
   http://www.foxnews.com/

   note this little piece of info regarding policy for voting on the straw poll
   (there is nothing better then *cough* free elections *cough cough* )

   “The poll results are nonbinding, amount to a popularity contest and offer candidates a chance to test their get-out-the-vote organizations. Those willing to shell out $30 for a ticket were eligible to vote, though some campaigns paid for tickets they distributed to backers”

   for more on this oh-so-subtle piece of media manipulation
   http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/13/finally-here-ames-straw-poll-first-test-2012/
   http://www.infowars.com/forget-the-hoax-ron-paul-is-a-presidential-front-runner/
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     14 August 2011 at 1:56 pm

     Ron Paul might’ve been a contender 10 years ago, but he’s an old man now. That and the fact that TPTB will never let him take office.

     That said I will be giving the rank and file Republicans some real credit if they actually select him as their candidate.
     • Vicky32 7.1.1

       14 August 2011 at 4:01 pm

       That said I will be giving the rank and file Republicans some real credit if they actually select him as their candidate.

       I thought his whole advertising point of difference was that he’s a Libertarian Independent? THerefore I’m a tad confused…
8. Draco T Bastard 8

   14 August 2011 at 11:31 am

   Report Ties Financial Industry Lobbying to the Financial Crisis

   Mortgage-lending companies that lobbied prior to the financial crisis generally engaged in riskier lending practices, according to the report, and they were more likely to be bailed out. “Sixteen of the twenty lenders that spent the most on lobbying between 2000 and 2006” received bailout funds, with 60% of funds allocated under TARP going to lenders that lobbied on specific issues.

   Without greater disclosure of the activities on which lenders lobbied, the authors could not determine whether mortgage lenders lobbied to gain preferential treatment or to share information with decision-makers. (It could be both.)

   We definitely need rules concerning lobbying and lobbyists. We need to know who they are, who they’re working for and what they’re lobbying for at the very least.
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     14 August 2011 at 12:28 pm

     Yes. And just as importantly a full review and tighten up of the rules around both private/public campaign financing and media funding.

     Multimillion dollar private campaign funding and unlimited corporate speech through the mass media has been the death knell of US politics.

     I have posted this before re: the subprime mortgage regulation failure, just making sure you had seen it. The FBI blew the whistle on this in 2004 and they were ignored.

     http://reimaginingeconomics.mirocommunity.org/video/25/steinhardt-lecture-2010-at-lew
9. randal 9

   14 August 2011 at 11:35 am

   thats right draco. at the moment we are being chivvvied around by a privileged group that feels it does not have to abide by any rules whatsoever and as they are the distributors of largesse the government sees no need to form any rules for them either.
10. Zorr 10

    14 August 2011 at 12:12 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5441979/National-to-clamp-down-on-youth-beneficiaries

    Nanny state indeed…
    • Tigger 10.1

      14 August 2011 at 1:09 pm

      No lollies for bad children.
11. Dave 11

    14 August 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I just have one question, is releasing part of your policy before the election and labeling it a ‘plank’ a freudian slip alluding to the intellectual capacity of your leader, your caucus, the press or your voters?

    I was always under the impression a plank was a piece of milled lumber… must just be me haha
    • prism 11.1

      14 August 2011 at 5:30 pm

      Dave – Quite good sarcasm, needs some more thought.
      • Jim Nald 11.1.1

        14 August 2011 at 6:59 pm

        For the Future of NZ’s economy

        Labour & Greens: Planning
        National: Planking
12. jackal 12

    14 August 2011 at 2:08 pm

    National Widens Gap with Australia

    Now correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t National promise to close the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia? I seem to recall them campaigning on that promise. Unfortunately because of their archaic policies, that gap is now increasing twice as fast under National, but try telling John Key et al that.
    • freedom 12.1

      14 August 2011 at 2:57 pm

      i remember something along those lines
      i also remember no increase in g.s.t., now higher
      north of $50 a week tax cuts became living costs increases
      and the creating jobs policy also seems to have fallen victim to reverse land.

      john Key has super powers allright, he is the anti-man
      • jackal 12.1.1

        14 August 2011 at 3:21 pm

        Key’s spinning so much bullshit around, I don’t think his Teflon smile is going to work this time.

        Gives new meaning to the phrase shit eating grin.
    • KJT 12.2

      14 August 2011 at 7:14 pm

      Yeah. They are going to close the wage gap by cutting wages and doing the opposite of everything Australia does.
      • jackal 12.2.1

        14 August 2011 at 10:25 pm

        Not to mention National’s $146 million cut affecting 31,000 industry trainees over the last two years. We can always import the labor to rebuild Christchurch I suppose.

        Now National can spend millions on controlling what young people buy and paying their rents. Makes fluorescent light bulbs look rather insignificant in terms of the super nanny state John Key wants to implement eh!
        • mik e 12.2.1.1

          15 August 2011 at 12:09 am

          Instead of industry training their giving moral training $25million worth thats as good as the boot camps
13. mik e 13

    14 August 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Hopefully its the same one that don brash walked
14. logie97 14

    14 August 2011 at 4:41 pm

    We spend x billion on welfare but children are still living in poverty.
    What about spending 2x billion on welfare and then children will be well and truly out of poverty.

    However the rich give x billion instead to the top money earners and they salt it away in other economies. Put that x billion extra at the lower end of beneficiary/salary earners and it will recirculate in the New Zealand economy.

    101 Economics in the University of Hard Knocks.
    • neoleftie 14.1

      14 August 2011 at 9:04 pm

      how about we change our economic system and do away with money and profits all together
15. Salsy 15

    14 August 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Woweee, Guyon does a proper intervew.. I fear i woke up in an alternative universe (dont wake me up)
    q and a
    • felix 15.1

      14 August 2011 at 7:09 pm

      Jeebers. Who told him about follow-up questions?

      Might have to rename the show “q+a+q” if this carries on.
      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        14 August 2011 at 7:57 pm

        I was damned surprised. Mr Espiner does have it after all when he feels like pulling it out. Key: shifty and uncharismatic when he is not smiling and waving.
        • Anne 15.1.1.1

          14 August 2011 at 9:14 pm

          Have they suddenly realised their love affair with the self-serving Key and his NAct govt. has so impacted on the voters there’s going to be a Claytons’s campaign, and they won’t have anything to talk or write about?
          • logie97 15.1.1.1.1

            14 August 2011 at 9:30 pm

            Watched Q+A and was surprised.
            Sadly, however, the TV1 news presentation of Joky Hen was delivered by a smiling Bernadine-sports-jock-Kirby and another novice journo so it was still the same old, same old. That said, if Guyon Espiner continues in this vein, then it has to be a positive (how do you get the sycophant Holmes to change though?)
          • felix 15.1.1.1.2

            15 August 2011 at 1:47 am

            Anne, that’s exactly my reading of the apparent mood swing in much of the media lately.

            Not much of a race to comment on with only one horse.
16. Salsy 16

    14 August 2011 at 8:26 pm

    My father – who has voted National without fail since the 70’s, rang me up today to say he was going off that “John Key’s”, who is apparently “giving all the money to Pita Sharples and only cares about big business not the people”… As an old school mechanic (we immigrated from Scotland in the late 70’s ) he can’t understand where all the young apprentices the govt used to send them (and pay half their wages) have gone, and since there is so much youth unemployment why cant they bring it back.. In anycase I nearly dropped the phone when he said he might even vote green “Because I like that wee man Norman, he doesnt want to sell the assets”…
17. Anne 17

    14 August 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Oh dear Salsy, where has your father been. What about the Labour “Stop Asset Sales” campaign that has been going for months. Did he miss it? Did you tell him that it’s always been National govts. who have cut back – or cut out – the apprentice schemes?

    Anyway, if he votes for the Greens that’s great – so long as it’s the Left, but pssst.. don’t tell him that. 🙂
18. jackal 18

    14 August 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Throwing English Out

    Consider if you will the huge amount of attention given when the Speaker of the House, Lockwood Smith, threw Hone Harawera out of Parliament. That story made the Six O’clock news and was the topic of heated debate for ages…

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