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Open mike 14/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 14th, 2013 - 151 comments
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151 comments on “Open mike 14/08/2013 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The New Zealand Herald’s editors happy to see the erosion of our civil rights and the weakening of democracy in the country. No mention or debate of the GCSB Bill amongst headings on online Herald.

    Amongst the issues these corporate puppets think more important…..
    “Nike commits cultural faux pas”

    From the same paper that screamed at us ‘Democracy under attack’ in 2007!

    What a joke!

    • Paul 1.1

      And from ‘Stuff’ not a jot of information on the GCSB Bill, the TPP negotiations, the sale of Meridian Sale or the Fonterra debacle, but enough column inches to mention this…..
      Woman steals ID to go partying

      The dumbing down of the New Zealand population is alive and well, as our treasonous media aids the sale of our country to foreign corporations.

      • Paul 1.1.1

        And this despite one of their own unscientific polls, which at the moment have 55% of all respondents thinking the GCSB Bill is the most important.
        If you want to participate in one of these polls, here is the link.

        Interesting to see how many issues were mentioned.

        And what do you think Fairfax Media will do with this information? Make their major stories reflect this? Or pass on these results to shills like Farrar to work out the next spin or diversion in a desperate attempt to make New Zealanders? So far they’ve tried the ‘we care more about snapper’ and the timely arrival stage left of Paula Bennett in an attempt to get the GCSB and Clean Green discussions out of the public limelight.

        Thank goodness for Campbell Live – a bright beacon in a country where the lights of democracy are dimming.

        • Rosie

          I regard the stuff site as media junk food. And like most junk food, sometimes I indulge even though it makes me sick. Re your point about the woman who stole the ID card. The world could be collapsing and stuffed would still have a irrelevant meaningless story usually accompanied by a picture of attractive white people, on their front page

          Their polls? I often participate in them, but once again, mainly for junk food value. Quite some time ago they ran a poll on is “David Shearer the right leader for the Labour Party?” Noting that the poll was around 90% on the side of “YES” and I asked myself, ” that’s not right, whats up here, can you vote more than once?” and sure enough you can. Just click click click away.

          Comments: They put the comments section on stories that will attract the foaming at the mouth RWNJ’s and just generally non politically aligned commenters who are easily baffled. For example they’ve put the comments section on the article that Karol has linked about welfare reform and Dr’s being required to encourage beneficiaries go get a job despite that fact that all their limbs have have fallen off. Surprisingly at 8.45am there was still no comments but there will be. That comments section will become a seething pit of beneficiary bashing by noon. I won’t go into their moderation agenda because I’ve already gone on about that previously.

          And yes, at least we have Campbell Live. They’ve really picked up their game this year, and I now watch it regularly. The GCSB coverage has been good and they haven’t forgotten about CHCH, where as everyone else seem to have.

          • Rosie

            The comments have started on the Dom Post though, and theres been a couple opposed. A few against but what about this gem from a health worker:

            Alf Noakes2 hours ago
            “Long overdue changes to the system that arguably do not go far enough. As health worker who has cause to visit people in their homes I would have to agree that a lot of people on disability related benefits are perfectly capable of working, but have got used to the concept of easy ‘handouts’ from the taxpayer.”

            That’s an appalling value judgment and a wild assumption about the patient’s situation. But this is the nature of the comments on fairfax and it is encouraged.

        • Paul

          See that poll is already down.
          Proves the point they are only put out to help NACTs make policy decisions.

      • karol 1.1.2

        Yes, MSM for the 21st century: fill the news with fluff, celebrity culture and personalised stories – get tough on beneficiaries and abusers, ignore the big issues.

        GPs now to be career advisers to beneficiaries – as if GPs didn’t have enough to do – and as if there was a well paid “career” just waiting for each beneficiary to fill, rather than a lot of poorly paid, soul-less jobs that ensure someone else reaps the profits.

        • karol

          And “Show me your jobs”.

          How to undermine job applicants.

          • Ennui

            I was confronted recently by a business type who was railing against the unemployed with all the usual epithets…lazy, slack, etc etc. When he said, “They should find jobs”, I stumbled upon a useful immediate response( which I recommend we all adopt) I stood the statement on its head.

            My reply was, “Yes they should. What have you personally done to create jobs?”

          • Pasupial

            @ Karol

            O yes, I know this one:

            ” Don’t advertise the position then tell the interviewees that you are taking annual leave the next day and won’t be back until three weeks’ time. What does this say to the interviewee? You are unimportant? We don’t value your patience in waiting? Or is it that you have already made up your mind and I’m not going to be the successful applicant? ”

            Though in my case the owner/ manager hired me after my doing an hour’s unpaid work (itself a bit dodgy; but it seems as a good an interview process as any), since the previous “trial employee” had quit the previous day (after less than a week – from the same ad, which should itself have been a warning). Then the manager took off for a couple of weeks leaving my training/ orientation in the hands of a foreman who had some anger management issues (though that could have had something to do with the over 20 days straight he had been working what with all job trainees quitting in fairly short order).

            The casual Kiwi attitude is not well suited to business management; cash cows need to be farmed, not just abandoned in marsh-lands. If there was ever a culture of entrepreneurs creating teams to effectively compete in a dynamic market place (or whatever the line is these days), it is long gone now. “Give nothing, get nothing”; goes both ways.

        • Ennui

          “as if GPs didn’t have enough to do”. Totally agree. The whole thing is creeping f*scism. It does not come about from deliberate design, it merely grows as a mindset, then morphs into designed action.

          • Molly

            Would be good to see the Medical Association make some kind of formal refusal to do this. Hard to see how it fits in with their duty of care to their patients.

            • Colonial Viper

              GP’s being used to sort out not just a patient’s medical problems, but also the community’s economic and social problems? Idiot NATs.

  2. tc 2

    Yes I see the MSM have followed the diversion on child offenders that basher is out promoting now, good boy now fetch that diversion ok heel now thats a good media dog.

    Good to see campbell still on the GCSB issue. No surprises about Granny its been a nat PR vehicle since before the 08 election.

    • Paul 2.1

      If you look at the Stuff online site, there are all these stories…
      Woman steals ID to go partying
      Drink-driver had son in car
      Maori schools refuse to release data

      Alcohol issues are serious for this country and education is obviously important.
      However the stories are clearly framed at the same time as Bennett’s sudden arrival on stage to wolfwhistle to many NZers prejudices.

      These stories won’t see the banning of alcohol advertisements, an in depth look at why schools question National Standards or look at how poverty is causing so many of our problems..as Gary McCormack so eloquently expressed on Mora’s panel yesterday.
      Farrar on the Panel today, so expect to hear about Bennett’s appearance on the stage, and other diversionary tactics from this bought puppet.

      • Greywarbler 2.1.1

        Stories all skewed to appeal to disdain for the lower classes irresponsibility and slackness – the main problems holding NZ back don’t you know!

        • Paul

          In the UK, Owen Jones wrote a great book called ‘Chavs’ which looked at the demonisation of the working classes. An illuminating read.

  3. http://whoar.co.nz/2013/ed-new-zealand-in-denial-stem-cell-lab-meat-no-threat-yet/


    “..ed:..this is kind of like type-writer manufacturers sneering that ‘the computer will never catch on..it is ‘no threat’ to our business-model..’..”

    phillip ure..

  4. Jenny 4

    I think that Bryan Walker at hot topic is risking throwing out the baby with the bathwater in attacking Sir Peter Gluckman. Gluckman gets it wrong being alarmed is not alarmist. Walker may have been influenced by this argument here which I also disagree with.

    Dave Roberts at Grist argues that there is a “Conservative hostility to science”. I beg to differ.

    I have been told by people who have met him, and even interviewed him, that Professor Gluckman is a political conservative, and pillar of the establishment. So it should be no surprise that even though he is convinced of the science, that he doesn’t want to rock the boat.

    Despite this I have quoted Sir Peter Gluckman a number of times, and support his view that New Zealand’s contribution to fighting climate change will be by setting an example for the rest of the world, as he outlined on the official government website.


    “New Zealand is a small emitter by world standards – only emitting some 0.2% of global green house gases. So anything we do as a nation will have little impact on the climate – our impact will be symbolic, moral, and political”

    Sir Peter Gluckman
    Chief Science adviser to the Prime Minister.

    Sir Peter Gluckman has a very important role to play because he is a conservative member of the establishment.

    The war against fascism never took off until arch conservatives like Winston Churchill saw the danger and took up the cause.

    Before that, as Spain showed, the leftists and democrats were easily defeated by the fascists.

    It needed a whole societal response to confront fascism, Left, Right and Centre. The same with climate change.

    “The collective wisdom of the scientific community is that action is needed now.”

    Sir Peter Gluckman
    Chief Science adviser to the Prime Minister.

    • weka 4.1

      “The war against fascism never took off until arch conservatives like Winston Churchill saw the danger and took up the cause.”

      Laidlaw: Do you think that we have and that scientists themselves also have sort of overdosed on alarmism?

      Gluckman: I think so and I think …scientists need to distinguish whether they’re being a knowledge broker and putting the knowledge forward to everybody or whether they’re advocates for a cause. And I think in the climate change area, for understandable reasons, a large number of scientists have acted more as advocates where I think what is needed is knowledge brokerage and that’s what I’m trying to demonstrate and do here.

      • Jenny 4.1.1

        What’s your point?

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        So, according you and Peter Gluckman, scientists shouldn’t advocate for the policies that their research says is necessary?

        • Jenny

          That’s not what I said and you know it.

          Chris Laidlaw asks a leading question…

          Sir Peter Gluckman answers it, as I expect a born conservative naturally would. (Especially if he wants to keep his high profile and influential position in the Civil Service).

          But in practice, Gluckman breaks his own admonition of advocacy on the government website. When he argues, that in the fight against climate change, our impact as a nation, must be symbolic, moral, and political.

          This is absolutely correct. As Gluckman also points out, New Zealand emits only 0.2% of global Green House gas emissions. This means that anything New Zealand will do to lessen global emissions will be pretty pointless in purely quantitive terms. Unless that is, it also makes a symbolic and moral and political statement to the rest of the world.

          For example the sort of message given to the world when we as a nation unilaterally declared ourselves Nuclear Free.

          This ties in with the Green Party’s agreed policy to make New Zealand completely coal free by 2020 and in the meantime not allowing any new coal mines to start.

          (Policies that the Green Party leadership are currently backing away from, in their quest for seats in a conservative David Shearer led cabinet).

  5. amirite 5

    NZ today: Nanny State gives way to Big Brother and Nazi State.

  6. Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zMN3dTvrwY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2zMN3dTvrwY&nomobile=1

    Published on Jan 9, 2013

    Evening Lecture | Jeremy Jackson: Ocean Apocalypse | January 7, 2013

    What are the impacts of overfishing? (10:55)

    What if the world’s garbage, sewage and toxic waste had been piled up on land instead of dumped in the ocean? (17:40)

    Global Warming: Are the penguins and polar bears doomed? (28:22)

    How much will the sea level rise in the 21st Century? (41:07)

    Can we avoid Ocean Apocalypse? (54:35)

    Jeremy Jackson is Senior Scientist Emeritus at the Smithsonian Institution and Professor of Oceanography Emeritus at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. He studies human impacts on the oceans and the ecology and paleoecology of tropical and subtropical marine ecosystems. Jackson is author of more than 150 scientific publications and eight books. He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and American Association for the Advancement of Science. Jackson has received numerous prizes and awards including most recently the Peterson Medal from Harvard University, the Paleontological Medal, the BBVA International Prize in Ecology and Conservation, and the Society for Conservation Biology LaRoe Award for Outstanding Contributions to Conservation Biology. Jackson’s work on historical overfishing and the collapse of coastal ecosystems was chosen by Discover magazine as the outstanding scientific achievement of 2001. Island Press just published his latest book, Shifting Baselines: The Past and Future of Ocean Fisheries, in August 2011.

    [lprent: I adjusted your handle to something that appears to be a more appropriate name to you than the stupid one that you chose. I suggest that you try again for something that the moderators won’t spam you for.

    I also dumped your comment into OpenMike as it had nothing to do with either the post nor the person you were replying to. And I have put you on auto-moderation indefinitely until I can see that you have read the policy and improved your behaviour. ]

    • Paul 6.1

      Really interesting yet depressing.
      Do you have access to any more thought provoking lectures like this?

  7. Northshoreguynz 7

    Given our MSM, and the fact that most blog sites come from a particular viewpoint, where can the public go to get unbiased coverage of current events?

    • lprent 7.1

      …where can the public go to get unbiased coverage of current events?

      The best local single source is NatRad who are pretty conservative journalistically and tend to stick pretty close to the intelligent consensual view. They also do interesting in-depth interviews with quite a range of people which round out the news headlines.

      Other than that, you really have to investigate a RSS feed with some filters. For instance setting the feed for Whaleoil to regard as junk for anything with less than 300 characters and/or short paragraphs and/or excessive links and/or excessive quotes is remarkably effective at both reducing down his bullshit and getting the odd article of interest. Kiwiblog works pretty well with a simple bulk-filler rule that says remove all posts where the quotations exceed text by a factor of two or more, or where the text content is less than 300 characters. I could go on, but filters are your friend.

      I also find facebook and a large and wide range of “friends” to be effective at popping in information that I didn’t expect.

      There are a number of preference based learning aggregator systems around on the net. But they take too much time to change and have a tendency to push commercial intrusions into content once they get popular.

      For overseas news, and despite it’s systematic biases, nothing really beats The Economist in my view. The electronic version is my saturday morning read.

      • Northshoreguynz 7.1.1

        All great ideas, I’m a Grauniad man myself. But it’s messy, especially for those who want a one-stop-shop, as our MSM purports to be.
        I was really hoping Bernard Hickey’s idea earlier this year would take off.

      • phillip ure 7.1.2

        “..where can the public go to get unbiased coverage of current events?..”


        (and ‘unbiased’..?..an interesting word/concept/dream/construct..


        phillip ure..

        • lprent

          I’m usually not after unbiased. I just want transparency about where the biases are. I can make up my own mind about peoples opinions after that.

          If people try to hide their biases and make a big claims of being “unbiased” and/or representing “the people” then I just assume they are lying and I tend to take judge them on the harshest criteria about motivations. Even then I often find myself far too optimistic.

          Tends to work.

  8. framu 8

    snapper is more interesting goes global

  9. It is interesting to see that Saudi, Russia, Kazakstan, Belarus, and Sri Lanka, at last count, are reported to have discontinued Fonterra products after botulism-causing bacteria were found during safety tests.

    During the Second World War research concentrated on chemical weapons including botulinum toxin, and it is still regarded as a potential agent of biological warfare today.

    Saudi and Russia are backing opposing sides in Syria. People in both governments may be considering the possibility that Fonterra is being used as a delivery agent – but even if so it is hard to see any purpose behind it because any effect would be non-specific, yet the precautionary principle would still apply.

    • Te Reo Putake 9.1

      “Saudi and Russia are backing opposing sides in Syria. People in both governments may be considering the possibility that Fonterra is being used as a delivery agent … ”

      Only if Fonterra has a biological weapons research department and only if Fonterra products were going to Syria anyway. And, only if the combatants in Syria were new borns and toddlers. Other than those minor quibbles, yes, highly plausible.

  10. yeshe 10

    Can anyone explain why the Maori Party only registered two votes and not three in the GCSB bill readings ? Thx.

    • Veutoviper 10.1

      Hi yeshe

      I did a couple of comments on this a week or so ago. Here is a link to one of them which also provides a link to an earlier one I did.

      Andrea Vance’s privacy breach is going to the Privacy Commissioner

      It most probably has to do with the absence rules for voting in the House. Details in my earlier comments, including links to these parliamentary rules.

      Another possibility is one of the three not wanting to vote – but the rules seem to then require this to be an abstention vote which would then be recorded as such. Similarly if one wanted to vote differently to the other two Maori MPs, then this would also have to be recorded. So, these two possibilities seem not to have been the case, as there did not seem to be any abstention vote or different vote recorded for the Maori Party.

      • Greywarbler 10.1.1

        Perhaps MP were only required to place two votes by the ‘contract’. Work to rule perhaps.

        • Veutoviper

          Very unlikely – as the Maori Party voted against – not for – the GSCB Bill at the first and second hearings. They have not supported National on this, and many other pieces of legislation, and are expected to vote against the Bill at the final third hearing. This is why Dunne or Banks’ votes are so important as their two votes give National a total of 61 votes for the Bill as opposed to 60 or less votes against.

          During the Committee stages held to date (Parts one and two; Part three debate yet to be finalised next week) Maori Party’s voting on the various SOP amendments was mixed (some for and some against). But their final vote on Part One was against, and I assume against Part Two, but I cannot be certain on Part Two as I did not watch the vote and don’t have time right now to check.

          I am 90% certain it is the absence rule in regard to voting as it has happened many time before that this has meant that the Maori Party can only register two votes not three. See my reply above and the links to my earlier comments which provide detail on these absence rules on voting rights.

      • yeshe 10.1.2

        Thx so much VV .. very helpful. I think they recorded two votes against in the last reading also as you mention. It’s odd that they would not record three .. would make the numbers even more tight. A puzzlement. Thx to you and the singing grey one …

        Just re-read your previous comments .. what a travesty the Maori Party seems not to care enough to ensure a presence that all three votes could be recorded. Amazing fail, but then there have been so many. Thx again.

  11. Chooky 11

    re proposed new brand ( Radio NZ Morning Report) is ‘The NZ Story’:

    ‘The NZ Story’ = John Key and Nact came in and trashed the ‘NZ 100% Pure ‘ brand

    The proposed new brand is ‘The NZ Story’ and this Govt and its advertisers are working on it right now..this is because the the ‘NZ 100% Pure’ brand is coming under increasing criticism overseas and from within NZ .

    …Seems like Nact have such a commitment to trashing NZ’s natural environment:

    * mining in National Parks
    * fracking
    * depletion and pollution of NZ rivers
    * unnecessary multi-million dollar motorways
    * spying on environmentalists (and anyone who opposes their plundering corporations and their personal wealth accumulation)

    …that they are willing to trash the ‘NZ 100% Pure ‘ brand and replace it with their ‘The NZ Story’

    We need to bring in a strong Labour/Green Government led by Cunliffe and Norman to resurrect the ‘NZ 100% Pure’ brand ! …which is in NZs long term economic interests (tourism and exports)

    • yeshe 11.1

      Not sure how to resurrect something that was already a lie when the slogan took over ? We had/have substantial river and waterway pollution issues, cadmium issues and so many more, all esisting under the 100%Pure slogan. It was always a lie and that is the deepest tragedy of all. We have harmed and destroyed much of the loveliest country on earth, but yes, we have milk ! ( Botulinum optional.)

      Honesty with integrity will be a good start, that is if we have any options at all remaining available if TPPA is foisted upon us

      But my resounding YES YES YES to a strong Labour/Green led by Cunliffe and Norman/Turei please !

      • Pasupial 11.1.1


        Especially re: Turei as Green Party Co-Leader. The narrowing of focus to Norman, as apparent sole leader, is a MSM trick that gets replicated far too often.

        • yeshe

          Maybe we should refer to Turei/Norman some of the time and redress it ? They both deserve it.

          • Chooky

            +1…good point and a slip up on my part…..unfortunately I keep getting Turei’s name confused with the leader of the Maori Party, Tariana Turia…maybe she should always be known by her first as well as second name ie Mitiria Turei

      • Chooky 11.1.2

        @ yeshe …we must hang on to the ‘100% Pure ‘ brand and make it a reality…undo the damage and stop more damage….

        Having travelled with a back pack in China and seen the filth and degradation of the environment and the gross over population ….and having heard the stories of Europeans about pollution in Europe….we do still have a viable brand!…It is worth fighting for!!! Travellers and tourists come here for it !…people overseas buy our product because of it!…We must a safeguard it!

        YES YES YES to more Maori coming on board on this issue …

        The Old Maori were New Zealand’s first environmentalists and conservationists….They donated many of our National Parks….They safeguarded the forests and fisheries!….for them it was their mauri , their mauri ora (life force)

        …the natural environment was their mana ( prestige and power)…their spirituality!!!!

        …. Papatuanuku ( Gaia) was their life blood and their Mother and their spiritual nourisher.

        The Maori have a very proud and honourable environmental tradition ..Maori descent and kinship (whakapapa) is inextricably tied with the land…..It should be more widely known!.

        …..We and our children should honour this tradition and be Nga Kaitiaki ( caretakers) like warriors!.

        …For we are the true New Zealanders…not the Corporates and their greedy sycophantic , pretender hangers on.

    • Greywarbler 11.2

      Better make it a good story! Stories usually are fiction though aren’t they? Are we then actually telling the simple truth with that slogan? Here’s our story – and if you don’t like it..we’ll get another one.

      Gather round kiddies. The little girl went through the green punga forest with a kete on her arm but she looked over her shoulder fearfully. The big moa was lurking and might peck her up in one big gulp or perhaps take her back to its nest and force her to sit on its eggs until they hatched and then she would be food for all the little moas.

      Anyone who would like to build on this story with further paras is welcome. It would be fun. But perhaps we could have a thread of its own for our The NZ Story?

      • Chooky 11.2.1

        @ Greywarbler …your story continued

        The great ghost of the Harpagornis Moorie swept out of the Southern Alps and grabbed the ‘The NZ Story ‘ with his razor sharp talons ….(.away from the greedy foreign environment plundering corporates and their corrupt hangers on and bankers who worshiped the venal dollar) …He smite them with his mighty adze beak ….and the Kea ( although their numbers severely depleted by barbarian 1080 poisoning) followed the great Eagle’s ghost in the moonlight…..”We will write our own story” they screamed….(Shostakovich, ghost rode ..the valkryie harmonic winds of Tawhirimatea)

        ( Greywarbler’s ‘little girl” hiding in the green punga forest with her kite heard them ….and she knew that it was not the moa she should fear….. but those who wanted to cut down and dig up the forest…pollute and plunder the rivers….and frack the land )

        • Rogue Trooper

          oooh, a ghost rider, a russian composer, and some Nordic mythology; we await publication with

          • Greywarbler

            You don’t get off so lightly. I challenge you to do better than Chooky. Come on, I know you’ve got it in you.

            • Chooky

              @ Rogue ….smirk

              ……how about throwing in some Rogue Trooper possums?!

              • Chooky

                …the little girl woke up from her dream in the punga forest and there was a European rogue fat possum in the trees starring down at her….chomping…. his mouth full of koru (punga fronds) ……….( to be continued)

                • Chooky

                  ……. Greywarbler’s “little girl” thought that the possum had a cheeky face….like someone she had seen in the newspaper connected with politics….was his name John or Matthew?….

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    🙂 Been swell. Yet, “a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do”, one flight at a time.
                    (we’re narrowing it down, might be some pain involved, separations and frustrations, and all that).

          • Ad

            Ghost writers in the sky.
            Wagner’s ghost ship arrives October.

            • ghostrider888

              Ha! 😀 . Was gonna’ ride back in on the Western version.
              (as close as a Uturn. Excellent).

  12. Adrian 12

    This has bugger all to do with Fonterra I’m thinking. I’m under the impression it has a lot to do with Key cuddling up to 5eyes and the NSA and we ( NZ) are a perfect target for reprisals, small country with one ” aircraft carrier” Fonterra. Remember Fonterra controls around 80% ( I think ) of global inter-country dairy trade although we only produce a few % of that for export ourselves.
    We’re getting an arsekicking so there’s a lot more going on here than a dirty pipe.

    • yeshe 12.1

      Adrian — yes, but it could be the stupidity of lax management and one filthy pipe, due for cleaning and/or replacement. Not sure which is worse to contemplate — your provocative but reasonable suggestion or simply careless management and penny pinching?

      • jaymam 12.1.1

        Apart from a dirty pipe, I was under the apparently mistaken impression that food manufacturers took regular samples and tested them. Why did it take over a year to find the “spores”?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          Market failure. The “high trust” model is so bad it’s not even wrong.

        • Colonial Viper

          It seems quite likely that Fonterra didn’t make the initial testing discovery, but rather testing which occurred at a customer site while they were using Fonterra product.

          • lprent

            From what I have heard, it was discovered at one of Fonterra’s aussie factories where they were testing the NZ powder before it was mixed into one of their speciality products. So sort of a customer.

        • lprent

          From what I understand, they didn’t find spores or toxins in the samples because that wasn’t part of the tests performed . What they found were the chemical traces that showed something was present in a derived product manufactured with the powder. After they discovered those they went back and looked for the material source, and in that they found the bacteria spore traces.

          Testing is usually done for things that are expected. It isn’t usually done for things that are unexpected. In this case it was after the material was used in a different testing regime with different requirements that it was detected.

          • yeshe

            “Testing is usually done for things that are expected. It isn’t usually done for things that are unexpected. In this case it was after the material was used in a different testing regime with different requirements that it was detected.”

            :-)) Sounds a bit like how we elect our politicians and discover they are not really working for us after all, doesn’t it ?? (The little known Parliamentarius botulinum.)

            • Greywarbler

              I see Agresearch is cutting down on locations by cutting out Dunedin although they make the case that they can do good stuff working in with Otago Uni.

              I blame advance notice of the Parliamentarius botulinum – it is important that the study on this should be intensive and under strict personnel security hence it being transferred to the Lincoln location. It obviously has potential to cross-breed and spread and remain latent. Very probably most of the Beehive is infected with it now, or else the veryaurum mite, which itself is connected with the staphlylococcus aureus..
              All a lot of rubbish, but why not do the light fantastic, it’s in line with much of the stuff we hear every day from the pollies and their friends.

              Even casinos in this country can’t run their businesses so they maximise their take – they have lost $18 million earlier this year from a group of high rollers from Asia. If they want to compete with Macau they will have to tighten their methods. Never mind they are now going to have two casinos in Queenstown, so swings and roundabouts.

              And they always have the earnest strugglers at the extra pokies, sucked in by the pseudo sophistication. Do you remember when Marge got ‘trapped’ at a pokie in one Simpson episode and Maggie crawled off and Marge had promised Lisa that she would make a fancy dress costume for school, but couldn’t drag herself away from the machine. I know how she feels I think, as I gaze at this deathless prose that I just have to put up, in the hope that it will make some tiny bit of the world better. Aahh….

          • yeshe

            THIS IS FRIGHTENING … 3.30 TODAY …

            maybe it was not a dirty pipe, but coming from farms and animals, and possibly related to over-use of glyphosate ( Roundup) .. (you know, the lovely stiff that GMO’s are engineered to be immune to so they can use oceans of it) .. and we don’t even have the GMO’s and already it is affecting farmlands and animals ….


            (Vet) Rowson said: “This disease originates in contaminated feed and animal manure, and research all over the world of which I am part, shows that GM feeds and the use of increased amounts of glyphosate herbicides increases the prevalence of this disease in pigs, poultry and dairy cattle, and the neuro toxin that causes the disease will pass through the food chain into milk.”

            And he says Fonterra never tested for glyphosate because they didn’t think it was related … my goodness, this is going to hurt when and where we can least afford it.

            • McFlock

              Well, it’s a soil bacteria so obviously it didn’t start in the pipe. The problem was a dirty pipe that became a petrie dish.

  13. freedom 13

    A new video for the 99%, with narration from Ed Asner

    -cue hysterical mouth frothing from srylands and the other toxic molluscs


  14. jaymam 14

    Those who care about the local body elections might like to know that there are new rules for billboards in Auckland, and almost all billboards I have seen breach the new rules, especially the C&R billboards. The text on billboards is required to be at least 120mm high but all the text on C&R billboards is half that height.
    Is anyone but me going to do anything about this?

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Spread the good word mate, nicely done. You wouldn’t want C&R to be inadvertently breaking the law right? Cutting the hoardings down to the regulation size might be a good community activity.

      • jaymam 14.1.1

        OK, the Council has removed the new rule about font sizes. That saves C&R having to take down their billboards.
        However the rule about landfill sites remains. This states:

        “Rubber/latex/nitrile gloves should be worn when installing and removing signage
        supports and pegs into/from soil. No eating, drinking or smoking on site due to
        contaminants and possible landfill gas. Wash hands prior to leaving site/eating…”

        P.S. these sites are used by thousands of people as sports fields.
        Oh well, nobody cares.
        P.P.S. I have not seen any billboards for left-wing candidates. So, just letting the right-wing take over Auckland Council are we?

    • Veutoviper 14.2

      And what about this report from TV3 yesterday?


      Arthur Anae put up one of his local election billboards on private property without asking the owner’s permission …

  15. Colonial Viper 15

    ASB reports third record profit in a row!!! $699M sucked right out of the country’s private sector ie you and me.

    Wow!!! All bow to the Economic Rentier Elite!!!

    • Rogue Trooper 15.1

      Ahhh, so.

    • Boadicea 15.2

      $150 per person in NZ or about $500 per full time worker!
      If all banks are pulling similar profits then the average full time worker is paying $1,500 PA in some shape form or manner!
      And now we are letting Australians take a hold of our energy sector also!

      Have we rocks in our collective head?

    • Greywarbler 15.3

      And it goes into Ozzies pockets! Giggle. What a beaut scheme mates. Those kiwis need to come out into the light and get wise, but of course their natural place is in the dark and that’s where they’ll stay.

      We’re onto a good thing, we can mine, and lend them money, and then buy whatever innovative and profitable business they develop, and they can’t employ their trained people so they can work for us and we don’t have to provide any citizen services so they’re really cheap. And they’ll never be able to change that because we suck up all their spare money.

      And later we’ll get their water too. And we will always keep the doors open between the countries, we can use their workforce, and if necessary we can shift some of our population over there if we have severe water and crop problems. They won’t know what hit them.

    • Chooky 15.4

      @ CV…so that is why they nationalise banks ?….now I understand…foreign owned banksters money should be going back into NZ to pay for high quality public schools, free university education, support for NZ start up companies, R@ D science and technology…..upgraded free high quality health and dental care, state housing ……

      • Greywarbler 15.4.1

        It all could be synergistic – Oz earning profits here and then investing it here in private-public partnerships so that it never goes out of NZ. So we’ll get the benefit of that re-investment of profits and then it’s all hunky dory.

        But then they want a return on their investment in what used to be public infrastructure provided free for our use by us as taxpayers, so we have to pay them for the right to use what should be our own stuff. Hmmm. I don’t know if I’ve got the clear picture. Perhaps Draco TB has a short link that can explain public-private pitfalls. That could be another reptilian acronym to remember, PPP to go with TPP.

        • Colonial Viper

          So its a good thing that the Australians buy up all our assets using our money?

          Don’t think so mate.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.5

      The Greens have a press release out on it.

  16. Greywarbler 16

    It was interesting to hear Mainfreight founder Bruce Plested praising John Key as a team player. Is this in the Elite Business Team I wonder. I feel that they would have the red carpet put out for them in Parliament unlike the suffering humanity who have had the carpet pulled out from under their feet. And I think how things continue and so many remain aloof in their own box at the theater of NZ life watching the passing parade, but untouched and unconcerned for it.

    Benes are likely to be punished more harshly than other taxpayers (benes do have a minimal tax charge but then as we all do, pay 15% on most of their spending). The IRD can slap penalties on them and criminalise them for trying to twist their way out of the pit of poverty and deprivation and despair.

    While smart chaps and smart women that have millions at their disposal can get light sentences. Probably on the basis that that is good business just overdone and the sin is getting caught, while benes are sinful just by accepting the government’s money and should be stopped and searched on the suspicion of harbouring chocolate biscuits, liquor, and soon fizzy drinks and anything that might bring an upturn for a short time in their lives.

    It is right to share a portion of the nation’s largesse to recompense the people for the jobs lost by governments TINA willingness of wiping tariffs that enabled us to stay safe from the worker exploitation that drags down so many in the world. So now who is being blamed for a lack of employment. It’s the hapless workers.

    We are not good at thinking games like chess in this country, where you know the rules, the strategies and plan moves well in advance to be winners. No we go in for physicality not thought. We like rugby where you toss advantage around, and move forward trying to win with heads down and a rush like a herd of pot roasts on legs.

    We mismanage everything we do – even when it involves what was a shining achievement we cannot sustain success by forward thinking. In rugby for instance, we have been left with the same finance-draining infrastructure that could be observed in other countries. Successful business presents itself as strong, wise, well-planned. Farming is said to be standing on its own without subsidies, but we know if you look closely there are those economic viruses that escape attention of those with myopia, the externalities of water pollution and overuse of water resources, and imbalance of the soil with applications of fertiliser. Over-stocking, reliance on imports increasing the arrival of economic harming pests. And comfortable business people backing a government that looks after their interests rather than that of the country.

    Most of the wealthy don’t care about the good of the country and its future. And the workers on the building site just want enough to buy a SUV and a boat and time off to go fishing and have a booze up. And the OAP they want to go on living as long as possible, with helpful medicines and operations, and helpful gold cards and not to worry the government will look after us, we are so deserving it’s only right.

    And on it goes, stretching into infinity in their minds. Nothing need change, they are all right. And the scaremongers, what a bunch of wets, they get you angy but you have to laugh at what they say, they are pathetic really, living in lala land that’s where they’re at.

    • fender 16.1

      I was disgusted that an otherwise interesting interview was ruined by a party political broadcast at the end, it undermined everything discussed previously. Sycophantic tool is out of touch obviously, as one thing is certain: Key is not a hard working team player if NZ is the team he represents.

      • Greywarbler 16.1.1

        Yes I thought hey what’s this about, at the end. I hadn’t known who was being interviewed. Books in homes etc. I was thinking of Alan Duff. So what a surprise.

      • Murray Olsen 16.1.2

        Key is a great team player if your team is the road freight first XV. What other team would Plested be worried about?

      • Tim 16.1.3

        I take it you’re both referring to that advertorial by Rinnie Ryan this morning?

        I wondered when she was going to quizz the guy on some of the impacts of his now ‘global’ operation – such as NZ’s roads. I think she was too busy having an orgasm!

  17. Greywarbler 17

    What a grey future. Sorry but it is all happening – don’t shoot me please.

  18. Draco T Bastard 18

    More corporate welfare while the people who actually need it are de-legitimised.

  19. tricledrown 19

    Greywarbler the shining cuckoo(shonkey) will take over all your assets and boot you out of your home!

  20. captain hook 20

    They cant cure herpes or fungal infections, alcoholism or drug addiction and some still wish they could do operations without anaesthetic.
    New Zealand the way they want it.
    Anyone in the reserve army of the unemployed now has a social disease.
    Uncurable till the Nats get off their arse and create some employment.

    • Treetop 20.1

      Herpes and some fungal infections e.g. candidia respond very well to olive leaf.

      The average GP is frustrated because they know that a required service takes too long to be accessed unless the consumer is really ill and then the hospital has to deal with a much sicker person.

      The treatment is jobs re the mentioned social disease.

  21. Te Reo Putake 21

    A mate tells me he was rung on the weekend by a market research company who asked him a series of questions about his political leanings generally and the housing options put up by Labour and the Nats specifically.

    Interestingly, the interview also had questions on the Labour Party leadership; who did he think should lead Labour now, and who did he think should lead Labour if David Shearer was not an option.

    The latter are not questions I would have thought Labour would be asking if it was their market research, so I’m picking it’s the Nats via David Farrar’s Curia looking to undermine Shearer.

    I imagine we’ll see the results in blog form on KB/WO in the not too distant future.

    • Winston Smith 21.1


      As if National need anyones help in undermining Shearer, theres more than enough undermining going on in Labour itself

      • Te Reo Putake 21.1.1

        A point that did occur to me, Winston.

        I did think briefly about putting ‘further’ before ‘undermine’ but it seemed redundant in the context of the comment. As it stands now, the only way Shearer could be undermined further would be if someone put termites in his shoes.

        However, my suspicion is that National want the info to try and keep fanning the flames of the ‘Shearer to be rolled’ story. Gower isn’t bright enough to come up with this stuff all by himself, you know!

        So, my scenario is this: Poll results come out via KB/WO/TV3. The poll shows that Kiwis would be more likely to vote Labour under Little/Robinson/AN Other. Gower spins that as ‘festering discontent in caucus/Shearer to be rolled in x number of days/BBQ at Hootens place’.

        • McFlock

          And then should the prophecy become self-fulfilling and shearer goes, they’ll pull exactly the same trick on his successor.

          Although I think they shot their bolt with the “a letter is being circulated” furore.

          • Pascal's bookie

            All very well and good, but seeing the source didn;t think to note the name of the reserach company it’s all a bit nothing.

            If it was Curia, then we won’t be seeing shit. Could be TV3. Could be whoever Labour is using these days. If Lab aren’t asking those questions, then they’re more fucked than even I reckon.

  22. Chooky 22

    Russel Norman is succinct on why NZers should be concerned about the GCSB Spying Legalisation Bill:

    * The Government Communication Security Bureau (GCSB) has been caught illegally spying on dozens and dozens of New Zealanders.

    * Instead of the GCSB facing consequences for breaking the law, National is rewarding them with new powers to legally spy on New Zealanders.

    * Thousands of New Zealanders around the country marched last month against the GCSB bill. I marched with them, and when I spoke to the crowd and looked out from the steps of Parliament, their passionate faces made it clear to me that we need to keep fighting these unwarranted attacks on our privacy, our freedoms and our democracy.

    * Why are so many New Zealanders concerned?

    *Because the GCSB is part of the global spy network called Five Eyes which carries out global mass surveillance of ordinary people’s emails, phone calls, and social networking.

    *This mass surveillance is a fundamental attack on our right to privacy, our freedom of expression, and our democratic right to live free from unjustified state surveillance. The GCSB is completely woven into that international grid.

    * John Key’s response has been the GCSB Bill which will give this international spy network information about ordinary Kiwis’ private emails and online life.

    * Up until now the GCSB was only legally allowed to spy on others, not New Zealanders, but even this fig leaf of protection is to be removed under John Key’s Bill.

    * The GCSB will also, if this Bill passes, be able to spy directly on New Zealanders to assist the Police, the Defence Force and the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS).

    *The GCSB will be able to spy on us to protect “information infrastructure” which covers just about everything related to the internet.

    *The GCSB will be able to get interception warrants not just for a specified person but also for a “class of people” which could include people like those in groups who are working to protect our environment.

    *The GCSB can share what they find with other spy agencies around the world.

    *And these spies will do all this without any serious parliamentary or judicial oversight. We are being told to trust John Key to monitor the GCSB to act ethically and lawfully. That’s not good law.

    * We don’t need this flawed and rushed law change. We need a wide ranging, independent look at how to actually fix our broken intelligence agencies.

    *New Zealanders deserve better. They deserve considered and careful law making that will protect our basic rights to privacy.

    • srylands 22.1

      As usual not one of those “succinct:” statements (or in their totality) caused me any alarm whatsoever. No issues. Move on.

      Critically there is nothing new. We have always had intelligence services. They spy. They can listen to my phone calls whenever they like.

      • I’m for a market-based solution to this one. Let the GCSB set up their own Facebook page. Anyone and everyone who doesn’t mind having their communications monitored can send a friend request to the GCSB. Problem solved. You can go first.

        • Suitably Clueless

          I am still convinced that all of the security services should be under the umbrella of the police. More oversight and scrutiny, and cost savings, how can a tory not agree with that?

  23. Treetop 23

    Dunne has taken a stance on potential child abusers. I have included the whole press release as I am perplexed as to how different his view is with the GCSB Bill and I would have had to quote 90%.

    Care Needed with Child Abuse Policy

    Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:59 pm
    Press Realease: United Future NZ Party

    13 August 2013

    Care Needed with Child Abuse Policy

    United Future leader Peter Dunne is wary of plans to ban suspected child abusers from being near children for up to 10 years.

    “I fully understand and support the government’s effort to halt the scourge of child abuse, as New Zealand has a horrible and unenviable record in that regard, but it is important we take steps that are both credible and fair.

    “The sentiment behind the 10 year ban is noble, but the practicalities of enforcing it make it difficult, with the risk that the provision becomes more honoured in the breach.

    “While I have no problem at all with a ban being applied to convicted child abusers, the balance of probabilities’ test for suspected child abusers is risky,” he says.

    Mr Dunne says that while he expects the government’s proposals to attract strong support, there needs to be full public discussion and consideration of their likely impacts before legislation is passed.

    “The legislation has to be workable and credible to avoid the risk of positive change being derailed by unintended consequences,” he says.



    • emergency mike 23.1

      What’s to be perplexed about? The purpose of this policy is to stir up debate to distract from the GCSB bill. Peter Dunne, as a bought and paid for John Key stooge, is just doing his bit.

      • Treetop 23.1.1

        “stooge” is being kind.

        See Dunne got his pay back from Key yesterday, Dunne can now register his party and will be about $100,000 better off. Also mentioned was that in the future he could return back to being a cabinet minister and that it took Smith a year to return back to cabinet.

        Key is so desperate for a coalition partner and a bit thick as Dunne aint going to be around after the next election.

        Key is like a kid, I bet he is counting the sleeps until the GCSB Bill is passed.

        Also I noticed that when it comes to a ministerial inquiry into Fonterra that Key wants to HURRY through legislation to summon a witness and to obtain information. This was proposed by Labour in 2008. As long as Key is PM he will not order a ministerial inquiry into Dunne leaking the Kitteridge report once the legislation is rushed through.

        100% pure (rotten) New Zealand

    • Winston Smith 23.2

      I agree with him, ban those that are convicted but you can’t ban those suspected of it…theres enough lies spread about in divorce proceedings as it is without adding this

  24. Veutoviper 24

    I was thinking this morning that Key has seemed rather quiet in the last day or so after his Snapper interview – or rather I haven’t heard anything out of him on my media sources.

    Lo and behold, apparently Key is appearing live on Campbell Live tonight to discuss the GCSB Bill and the CL nationwide road trip.

    Farrar has also mentioned it on the dreadful Mora show as I was typing the above.

    Sorry, if someone else has already alerted TS people – been out for a few hours and have not caught up with latest TS posts.

  25. idlegus 25

    the brilliant gordon campbell does it again, basically asking wheres all the right wing libertarians these days, seems more lefties are concerned about civil liberties than their right wing counterparts.

  26. Chooky 26


    ….the right wing libertarians have their eyes swivelled sideways into their back- pocket wallets…they go where the money is

  27. BM 27

    And it’s a KO to Key.

    Fuck he’s good, Campbell there with his 50 sheets of paper, videos and Key, off the top of his head took him apart and made him look like the fool.

    • ScottGN 27.1

      If it was such a breeze you have to wonder why he doesn’t do it more often? Maybe he’s just too lazy…?

    • idlegus 27.2

      bollocks, key came across as a squeaky apologist, what was he going on about with this ? “how did i get here? was it by bus? was it by taxi? was it by ministerial car? it doesnt matter, the point is im here”, campbell just gave him enough rope to hang himself.

    • Saarbo 27.3

      Key is a prize Bull Shitter, thats what he excels at…he has people like you wrapped around his finger.

      “GCSB Laws = Nortan Antivirus, you know, the antivirus you have on your computers in your homes, thats what we are implementing…”

      • BM 27.3.1

        I admire his skills as a politician, Clark was really really good, but compared to Key she’s an amateur.

        • ScottGN

          Nothing he said made much sense as far as I could tell. That was probably the intention. Get on there and blather away about Norton antivirus, taxis and buses and whatever shit and just try and wind the clock down.

        • geoff

          Harr! Oh BM your hyperbolic obsequiousness is only surpassed by your stupidity

        • Anne

          Oh bollocks, bollocks and more bollocks. You’re a first class gullible idiot BM. Only first class gullible idiots could watch that performance of Key’s and NOT recognise he was lying, sliding his way through the slime, and shitting like a demonic bull. Compare his performance with the intellectually superior and steadfast voices of Sir Geoffrey Palmer and Sir Bruce Ferguson? There’s no contest as to who is telling the truth and it ain’t John Key. Sure, he will have fooled quite a few people – tonight – but he won’t fool most of them for very long.

          • Murray Olsen

            He’ll fool BM, KKK, sorryhands and quite a few others for ever. They don’t care whether he’s telling the truth or not – they think he’s one of them. The problem they’ll run up against is that he doesn’t. He knows they’re way down in the pecking order and it’ll be a sad day for them when they realise this.

            • BM

              A resounding win for the Blue team, a crushing humiliating defeat for the red/green team.

              Rank amateurs, mwhahahahahaha.

              • geoff

                Another BM comment straight out of the National party play book: Even if something you’ve said is complete bollocks just keep repeating it.

                In his essay “Politics and the English Language”, George Orwell observes that political language serves to distort and obfuscate reality. Orwell’s description of political speech is extremely similar to the contemporary definition of doublespeak;

                In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible… Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness… the great enemy of clear language is insincerity. Where there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, ..

                John Key’s approach to a tee.


                We don’t have a nanny state, we have John Key, our big brother looking out for us.

            • Anne

              BM has just provided the evidence Murray Olsen.

            • srylands

              “He knows they’re way down in the pecking order and it’ll be a sad day for them when they realise this.” What’s “one of them”?

              I have no idea what you are on about. The pecking order for what?

              I am skeptical of everything every politician says. They are politicians. Mostly they tell half truths. Or distort the truth. Some of their policies are excellent. most are unsatisfactory compromises. Some are terrible. Applies to this government too.

              So if you want to continue with the hysterics, leave me out of it.

    • risildowgtn 27.4

      Hahahahahah Campbell ripped the fool a new one………. Maybe if your head wasnt up his b…… you might see it

  28. Saarbo 28

    Just watched Key on campbell Live. Key is managing to avoid showing his Dead Fish Eyes when being challenged, I reckon he has had some pretty good coaching in interviewing technique lately, because the prick handled John Campbell pretty well, and Campbell didnt go easy on him. Shearer is dead meat in election 2014. Three more years of National are guaranteed, there is only one person in labour that can go head to head with Key. And everyone knows who it is. Faaaaaaaaaaarrrkkkk. Frustration!

    • geoff 28.1

      Bah. I caught the last couple of minutes of it and my immediate impression was that Key looked very pleased with himself. The moment I turned it on he even appeared to be playing the victim card.

      You’re absolutely right though, National victory in 2014 looks depressingly likely. Aside from his ability and Shearer’s lack of it, National seems willing to weaken their stance on any issue that Green/Labour appear to be getting traction on, just so they can maintain the vote.

      • Richard Christie 28.1.1

        Key’s slippery argument seems to be that the GCSB is not spying on all of us via the collection all of our metadata because GCSB will only access the information they have obtained – on all of us – when called upon by way of a warrant.

        More than a hint of Orwell in that logic. (We’re not spying on you until we open the file we have collected on you)

    • Hami Shearlie 28.2

      We all know who, Saarbo – even the ABC know it’s true, and when they actually start thinking about the NZ people instead of themselves and their personal careers and bank balances, and vote in a leader who can actually WIN an election, then maybe the polls will do a big turnaround! We all know that David Cunliffe would wipe Key off the map! You could have knocked me down with a feather when Annette King said recently on Backbenchers (with a straight face I might add) that “David Shearer’s doing a great job!!” I thought she was smarter than that – That will come back to haunt her for sure – The only people that Shearer is doing a great job for is the NATS!

  29. beatie 29

    I thought Key came across as a slimy bullshitter, and that ill-matched toupee added to the sleazy gangster look.

    • Murray Olsen 29.1

      That was my impression too. I’m buggered if I know why more Kiwis don’t see through him. He uses all the standard conman tricks. It’d be interested to run an interview like that like with a forensic psychiatrist doing a commentary. Anything he doesn’t want to answer, he says “Let me get back to that”, knowing that this will never happen in a tv interview format. Any question he can’t avoid, he either tries to make sound ridiculous or cites national security, then attacks the questioner. He puts absurd accusations in the mouth of the questioner. Absolute slime and, tragically, able to beat Mumblefuck in his sleep.

      Interesting that he’s also had it costed how much would need to be spent to read all our emails.

      • geoff 29.1.1

        Interesting that he’s also had it costed how much would need to be spent to read all our emails.

        Exactly what I thought! The man never forgets a number.

        • Herodotus

          Why would anyone quantify the cost of this and how many people it would take to administer 600k ? Strange couple of numbers to refer to, unless it was making it up as you go knowing that no one will ever be able to call you out on it and quantify it. Perhaps Labour could call him on this as to where the source of these numbers came from, and why would anyone ask officials to calc these ?

      • felix 29.1.2

        Yes Murray, I thought it was a terrible performance and very obvious in all the ways you mention.

        But I think he’s always performed poorly and I’ve never once been impressed by his act. It has always been utterly obvious to me when he’s lying and obfuscating.

        But apparently it’s a good enough to fool about a quarter of the country. Hardly surprising, these people think The Feelers put on a good show so what the fuck do they know.

    • geoff 29.2

      Just watched the full interview on tv3 plus 1

      Key was fucking hopeless! Stalling for time, ignoring the questions and basically talking shit with his dead, American Psycho eyes. His default setting is bald-faced lying.

      Cant wait to see the backlash from him saying that the Law Society, Geoffrey Palmer, etc are all wrong.

      • Bill 29.2.1

        So what the GCSB does and how it arrives at any end point it arrives at isn’t important. All that’s important is whether or not they act legally. So the law itself doesn’t matter beyond its ability to enable the GCSB to act with impunity and within the law.

        And that’s what underpins all that JK was saying. He stated as such in the final few seconds of the interview with the reference to the bus, train, taxi crap.

        The end justifies the means and the means will, by and by, be justified by the law.

        And he only denied that there would be access to metadata in the way that John Campbell meant access to metadata. And that meaning (never explained) was entirely JK’s projected creation.

  30. Tautoko Viper 30

    John Key’s and Steven Joyce’s ability to talk continuously allowing no chance for anyone else to speak needs to be countered in the pre-election debates, I think a time limit on answers needs to be imposed with a bell (or preferably a nasty electric shock).

    • Murray Olsen 30.1

      As long as the person administering it remembers that both voltage and amperage are important, I vote yes. The resistance should be easy to work out – just measure a dog turd and multiply by the appropriate amount.

      • Tim 30.1.1

        And as long as by election time, Labour have replaced that 40 watt banana Shearer with somebody decent.

    • rockape 30.2

      That might work a bit against mumbles would he get anything other than um arr out?

      [lprent: I see that you are still the same inarticulate munter as ever. But it appears that you have managed to forget your name causing me to waste time admitting you despite my disdain for your tiresome stupidity. Why am I not surprised? You appear to be unable to retain much for any length of time – losing your name is just part of your syphilitic inspired mantra.

      BTW: Have you managed to read the policy yet? After all it has been 4 *months*. Surely even you should have been able to drag your finger between the page and the dictionary long enough to have decoded at least some of the meaning in that statement. ]

  31. TruthSeeker 31

    The BEST part of tonight’s interview was when Key went on an extended rant about Dotcom. He looked for all the world like a man with something to hide. People who say Key came across well in this interview need to watch it again.

  32. Linz 32

    You’re absolutely right, Tautoko Viper. Talking constantly, giving unnecessary and confusing detail is a form of lying. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE&noredirect=1

    Here’s some better news: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/kerry-visits-brazil-on-two-day-trip-to-south-america-to-shore-up-relations/2013/08/13/6f66feba-03e7-11e3-bfc5-406b928603b2_story_1.html

    Brazil demanded answers Tuesday from the U.S. about National Security Agency spying in the country and warned that trust between the two nations would be damaged if U.S. explanations about the program were not satisfactory.
    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who was visiting Brasilia, sought to allay Brazil’s concerns about the program, saying the U.S. would work to provide answers to Brazil and other Latin American nations rankled by the NSA surveillance revealed by systems analyst Edward Snowden.

    “We’re now facing a new type of challenge in our bilateral relationship,” Brazil Foreign Minister Antonio Patriota said at a news conference. “The challenge is related to news about the interception of Brazilian electronic and telephone communications. And if those challenges are not resolved in a satisfactory way, we run the risk of casting a shadow of distrust over our work.”
    He said Brazil was seeking explanations through political, diplomatic and technical channels, but that those clarifications were not an “end to themselves.”
    “We need to stop practices that violate sovereignty, “ he said.

    Why can’t we have a government like that?

    • Murray Olsen 32.1

      I wouldn’t be 100% sure Brazil has a government like that. Patriota’s remarks could be purely for public consumption, although I hope not.

  33. Greatest Video I have ever seen on the internet:


    Lab apes get set free for the first time in 30 years.


  34. North 34

    Tonight ShonKey Python confirmed that he knows he did himself considerable damage on Monday night with his display of contempt for New Zealanders………”snapper”………”what I say concerns New Zealanders……..that’s what concerns New Zealanders. “You” can fuck off l !”

    He couldn’t do that again. And he didn’t.

    In the bigger picture, consider the following – the matter of “look” –

    1. References to Helen Clark – which came early – rang lame. And somewhat catty, not for the
    first time. Catty I mean.

    2. “I can’t talk about Prism or Five Eyes and the rest – security…….”. Yeah right. Unchallengably
    and thus conveniently letting himself off ?

    3. Maintaining still that everyone in the army is out of step, everyone’s got it wrong, except him.
    Still credible ? In light of recurring ShonKey-ness, sometimes clayfootedness, shirking of
    responsibility. Flashes of nastiness. Blaming, principally the little guy.

    4. That people really swallow ShonKey’s bland – “I disagree” – in answer to Palmer,
    Salmond, Law Society, Human Rights, Privacy, and (for we larrikins) Kim Dotcom
    even ? “Who the fuck you think you are mate ?”

    Now, I know that the “look” I depict above will not disturb the exquisite, crowing, friction-free ejaculations presently swarming BM et al. Orgasmic relief that ShonKey Python did not get murdered tonight, as he was by the subject of “You can fuck off !” on Monday night.

    The point is that people have nostrils. A wall of shit cannot fail to stink. What we saw from ShonKey Python tonight was not enough to perfume the increasingly pervasive stink. You get used to sulphur in Rotorua but the stink of shit, no. Exponential may be to overstate it. OK. Don’t forget cumulative.

    Good night folks. Off to the sack to try and grab a bit of what that lucky bastard BM is gettin’. “Look Mum, no hands !”

  35. Ianmac 35

    Watched the key interview from affar and in stop/start downloading.
    The lines oft repeated: Helen Clark/labour passed the Act in 2003. We have to fix it. (Almost whole of parliament passed it including national.)
    Much better supervision now. (Still in the hands of politicians.)
    Terrorism is a serious threat. (So we must increase surveillance.)
    30,000 submissions re snapper. (Had the topic been children smacking or total ban on smoking, then get heaps more than 30,000. GCSBill too complicated for general submissions.)
    Great to see John Campbell tackling the subject. Key is very adept at political smooth talk. His message ? Labour stuffed up. We will fix it up. Then our country will be safer.

    • Treetop 35.1

      When Key starts to fix up his stuff ups I just might take him seriously.

      Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

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