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Open mike 14/09/2013

Written By: - Date published: 8:28 am, September 14th, 2013 - 84 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

84 comments on “Open mike 14/09/2013 ”

  1. andy (the other one) 1

    So who ever wins on Sunday, they need to come out on Monday at full speed. They have some momentum, Key is clearly taking it more seriously than some of the Labour MP’s by turning down a junket for Tuesday Question time.

    Already Fran O in the Herald is posing the ‘Poison chalice’ leadership question.

    Good opposition advise from the Sydney Morning Herald.

    Tony Abbott is promising again and again that he will lead a “methodical, measured, calm” government. But he’s overlooking something. He’s just finished writing a rip-roaring new guidebook on how to be a successful opposition.It’s the Abbott model of how to destroy a government. And guess what? The Labor Party noticed.

    Rule No.1: Don’t give the government a thing. Fight it up hill, down dale, day in day out. Be strident, be angry, be unreasonable. Apply maximum pressure and see what cracks.

    Rule No.2: Don’t allow the government to control the narrative. Make a lot of noise. Fill the airwaves with angry dissent and maximum outrage. Generate an impression of disorder. If you control the narrative, you control the psychological battlespace.

    Rule No.3: Exploit the deadliest of all contemporary policy issues, the one that was central to the downfall of the last three prime ministers: climate change. This remains a potent issue and will remain so for years.And the Abbott model worked.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/abbott-rules–ok-20130913-2tqau.html#ixzz2eo5nrsqT

    • chris73 1.1

      Thats why JK is a better politician then most if not all of the current labour line up* because he doesn’t underestimate Cunliffe (assuming its him) so hes going to make sure he doesn’t get an easy ride…

      *Interestingly Cunliffe made mention of Labour consistently underestimating Key and paying the price and that he wont

      • felix 1.1.1

        Oh so the consistent line from you and your mates about how Key wants Cunliffe to win because he’ll be an easybeat is… bullshit?

        zOMFG say it isn’t so.

    • Tiresias 1.2

      The trouble with Rule No. 1 is that it can quickly make a nation ungovernable, whoever is in power. This is the unedifying situation we’re presently seeing in the USA where the Republicans, dangling from their Tea Party Wing, are resisting everything Obama presents even though Obama himself has shown himself to be pretty Right Wing. As a result those initiatives which would have brought some limited relief to the not-quite worst off in America’s society such as ObamaCare have been diluted out of existance.

      The underlying understanding that makes democracy workable is the recognition that ‘the other guy’ has a view and policies some in the population voted for and so presumably want to see pursued – and where that segment of the population is in the majority they have the ‘right’ to see them pursued. The duty of the Opposition is to oppose and point out consequences and alternatives, but ultimately to accept that the Government has earned the right to govern. Being angry and unreasonable is the behaviour of kids in a playground, and God knows there’s already enough of that in Parliament.

      • jcuknz 1.2.1

        I gather that the difference in support for the two American parties was very small so it makes the ‘let the rulers do their stuff” idea rather marginal … mores the pity

    • Murray Olsen 1.3

      Abbott’s strategy would never work for an honest and principled politician, which I hope Cunliffe is. It also needed backing by the media to an extent that I have never seen in Aotearoa. It’s the sort of approach Mallard might take, not realising that looking bad in lycra only played an insignificant part.

  2. Steve 2

    O’Sullivan joins the ever expanding list of media to demonstrate how desperately scared the right are that Cunliffe will win the leadership race.

    She hits the panic button in today’s Herald in a last ditch attempt to undermine.

    Political pundits are predicting a bloodbath if David Cunliffe is elected Labour’s leader tomorrow and fails to quickly unify the caucus.

    For “political pundits” read “right-wing journos like me”.

    There is considerable room for doubt over whether Cunliffe really embraces socialism…..
    He is still not prepared to live among the masses, preferring Herne Bay’s salubrious environs to shifting house to his New Lynn electorate.

    Sorry Fran – a pathetic old chestnut. So presumably before he can advocate for the sick and disabled, he will need to be sick and disabled.

    If Cunliffe is announced as the victor he will have to exercise self-discipline and reach across the factions to draw MPs and the party behind him. There is an assumption that Cunliffe will not be able to step up.

    “Assumption” by who Fran? Don’t you mean “hope” by you and others from the right, but you actually fear you will be wrong.

    …and finally

    Cunliffe will emerge as victor if the Labour Party itself has decided it wants to win the 2014 election. But he hasn’t a hope in Hades of ramming home a victory against Prime Minister John Key unless his caucus colleagues decide they too want to win.

    So now she’s hedging her bets and begrudgingly preparing for the right’s nightmare of a Cunliffe victory. Time then to roll out the “Labour is divided” message.

    • bad12 2.1

      Lolz, poor old myopic Fran, She obviously didn’t get a peek at the latest Roy Morgan befor She penned Her latest piece of opinionated drivel…

    • North 2.2

      The tone in the Armstrong and Young comments in the Herald this morning is indeed “begrudging”.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11124569

      • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

        I think Armstrong was pretty strong in his support of Cunliffe; he notes Cunliffe’s flaws and challenges, but also says that Grant can’t get the job done while Cunliffe is the man for the moment. And that Labour have already wasted enough time with Shearer for Grant to spend the next few months raising his own public profile.

        • LynWiper 2.2.1.1

          I was pleasantly surprised at Armstrong’s comments, and particularly appreciated his supportive observations re DC. I seldom read his articles these days as they’re so biased. While his conclusion is debatable and remains to be seen, right now I’m very happy with “Cometh the hour, cometh Cunliffe!”

    • Sosoo 2.3

      That woman is stupid and useless. I think it’s time bloggers took a much more aggressive and frankly rude attitude towards these supposed professionals.

      • North 2.3.1

        This morning’s Herald article by authors Armstrong and Young burbles on then for authority quotes “the experts” Armstrong and Young ???

    • RedBaronCV 2.4

      As Cunliffe’s heart is in the right place who cares where his bed is.

    • QoT 2.5

      It’s like every terrible first-year-student essay, and if O’Sullivan’s editor were a lecturer they’d return it with “CITATIONS NEEDED” in big red letters on the front.

    • tc 2.6

      Dear oshillivan,

      How many MP’S live in their electorate, heres a hand to start with, the PM and deputy PM do not…..

      Smells like desparation there old trout

  3. (my five cents worth on cunnliffe/robertson/blowback..)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2013/leadership-battle-will-be-a-close-race-says-cunliffe-comment-why-cunnliffe-must-lead-labour-and-why-those-opposing-him-need-to-take-heed-of-the-wind-vanes/

    (excerpt..)

    “…and a big-straw in the wind for those plotters..must be the fact of their former party president williams..

    ..after pushing the wtf!-candidate jones with all the intensity of a jonesing crack-addicted pimp..

    ..he has now looked up at the wind-vanes..

    ..and has come down for cunnliffe..”

    ..phillip ure..

  4. Tigger 4

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11124543

    ‘Public opinion has changed, prejudice is not what it was. A gay prime minister would just need to be good enough.’

    No, I’m sad to say that’s bull. Just this week I’ve been called a faggot and told my marriage to a man isn’t real. Prejudice is less, but it’s exactly what it was and its still there.

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 4.1

      Yeah there’s still some prejudiced weirdos out there.

      Friend of mine was doing referee checks a few weeks ago.

      When the referee was asked about the person’s honesty he said their were some “moral issues”.

      When pressed he wouldn’t say but after a bit more digging the employer found out that she is in a relationship with someone outside of the church they (the referee) both go to.

      FFS some employers might not have dug further and just not employed her. What the referee was saying / implying just didn’t add up to what the employer had seen.

      These prejudices are played out every day by these bigots and they affect peoples lives in such negative ways.

    • vto 4.2

      Tigger, you must keep hope by recognising that many people are just straight out ignorant and the only way those views will change is by those bigots and their attitudes departing from the planet. Generational change is the only way for much of human behaviour to flex and bend.

      • Zorr 4.2.1

        Progressive causes are advanced one funeral at a time

        Don’t remember where I first heard that but I feel it is very true

      • QoT 4.2.2

        Plenty of young people are bigoted assholes too. It wasn’t baby boomers who decided describing things as “so gay” was the worst thing in the world.

        (Cue the apologists to insist that that use of “gay” is totally not about homosexuality at all. 🙄 )

        • Populuxe1 4.2.2.1

          Except that plenty of young gay people also call things “gay”. Language evolves and “gay” will go the way of “fey,” “camp,” and “queer”. Curiously it’s mostly heterosexuals who get the most upset about it – LGBT people have been lampooning ourselves for years.

          As for young people being “bigoted assholes” – thoughtless, perhaps, but actually far more likely to support things like same sex marriage and gay adoption, or indeed claim bi/pansexuality, which casts doubt on the whole “perjorative use of the word ‘gay’ indicates widespread homophobia”. I don’t particyularly like the usage, but I file it in context and have slightly more important things in my life to worry about rather than find more excuses to play victim.

          Personally I despise the way “females” has surpassed “women” (just as “women” surpassed “ladies”) because it makes them sound like farm animals, but I suppose that’s a generational thing about evolving sensibilities. Feel free to play Cnut all you want.

          • QoT 4.2.2.1.1

            Yes, it’s all just lighthearted fun, and marginalized groups using deprecating terms about themselves is exactly the same as people in positions of privilege doing it, and no one ever complains about the use of “females” to refer to women. 🙄

            • Populuxe1 4.2.2.1.1.1

              Well perhaps you could, oh I don’t know, actually talk to some young people about what they actually think and how they use language instead of just being all pompous and judgemental instead of just interviewing your confirmation bias. You’d probably be surprised. Obviously you have forgotten language is contingent – “cool” doesn’t always mean “cold”, “groovy doesn’t always mean “lined with grooves”, and unless you really do have your head wedged up your duodenum, you will have noticed that “bad” frequently means “good” and “sick” has nothing to do with illness. But whatever.

              And obviously some people object to the use of “females” because I just did. But just for you:

              “Incidentally, in Dunedin I have heard a lot of people (men and women) referring to women as females, but never to men as males. It was even a newspaper headline: Man rapes female… Female what i’d like to know… Ugh. ”

              http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/6016/new-zealand-pronunciation-of-women-vs-woman

              • QoT

                Hey, you just keep replying to the points you want to pretend I’ve made instead of the points I actually make if that’s what keeps you happy.

                • Populuxe1

                  Sigh. I did. Your points being (1) “Plenty of young people are bigoted assholes too” because of the way they use “gay”. And (2) “no one ever complains about the use of “females” to refer to women”. Again, whatever.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Basically. if you are gay:

                    I am offended by the fact there are 21st century countries where people lack equal rights, can be arrested, or even killed simply because they are LGBT. Some spotty teen calling Justin Bieber’s latest single “a bit gay”, less so.

                    If you are heterosexual:
                    Stop straightsplaining to me how I should feel about something.

                  • QoT

                    (2) “no one ever complains about the use of “females” to refer to women”

                    Yes, that was totally a sincere argument and the rolly-eyed smiley at the end of the sentence meant nothing. 🙄

                    • Populuxe1

                      You may be greatly underestimating the extent of meanings sticking a rolly eyes emoticon on the end of a sentence can have. I assumed you were rolling eyes to imply that I was wrong. I’m flattered that you imagine me to have extraordinary telepathic powers, but unfortunately I don’t.

    • Neoleftie 4.3

      Now that saddens me tigger but the realities is that too many people still have prejudices mainly hidden behind a veneer of cosmopolitism

    • Sosoo 4.4

      Considering you are a cartoon tiger, the marriage comment was fair enough. The other, not so much.

  5. chris73 5

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11124376

    – So why aren’t Labour up in arms about this? Wouldn’t because the buyers aren’t asian…

    • vto 5.1

      Excuse my language here Chris73 but fuck off you arsehole cocksucker and racist prick. If yu had read comments about this sale on this site over the last two days, as a sample of left sentiment on this issue, you would have seen the exact same comments about this sale as with every other foreign sale no matter what race of nationality is doing the buying.

      Having foreign landlords helps nobody. The historically proven way to reduce a nation’s people is to have their land taken from them…. to become tenants in their own land.

      There is no benefit to having foreign landlords and personally my vote is going to the party with this as its policy. It is the largest determinant for me. (and further, you may be interested to know that our livelihood derives from this exact similar sector, so having a worldwide pool of the richest buyers on the planet available should benefit us. It doesn’t.)

      (sorry for the language…)

      • chris73 5.1.1

        “you arsehole cocksucker and racist prick”

        – I don’t suck cock (not that theres anything wrong with that) and being that the Labour party were all up in arms about chinese buyers of NZ farms but are now curiously silent about this the only conclusion is that the Labour party are inherently racist

        Of course I could also be wrong and maybe they think its not as big a deal as it was last year but I bet JK is building an impressive dossier on all the back tracks and changes that Labour have done over the last couple of years and will bring them out during the election

        With a big bribe of course…maybe something to equal interest free loans or WFF

        • vto 5.1.1.1

          Keep trying chris73 but you are simply completely and utterly wrong.

          The fact that disquiet about foreign sales like this has nothing to do with race has been amply proved by the following evidence: raised on this site by commenters who raise all such sales; the sale making the mainstream media yesterday; the sale making a significant article in Canterbury’s Press this morning.

          Race has nothing to with it. Proved.

          go back to sleep fulla

          • chris73 5.1.1.1.1

            Except that my point was why wasn’t Labour up in arms about this

            Not this site
            Not the MSM
            Not the Christchurch Press

            Why aren’t Labour talking about this

        • felix 5.1.1.2

          Absolute lies chris. Find me one single reference to the Labour party being up in arms about the foreign buyers being Chinese.

    • felix 5.2

      Well I’m fucked off about it. I imagine anyone who values economic sovereignty would be.

      I don’t recall ever seeing anyone make a fuss about the nationality of foreign buyers except a few idiot righties like you, chris.

      • chris73 5.2.1

        Lol

        The Labour party made a big deal of farms (especially the Crafer farms) being sold off to “overseas”* buyers yet made no mention of Harvard University buying up farms in central otago and arn’t saying dickey-boo about this

        and if you think National wont make light of this at the most opportune time you’re dreaming

        * overseas being a code word for asian buyers but of course they can’t say that so they say overseas but we all know what they mean…dog whistle politics at its finest

        • richard 5.2.1.1

          Bollocks.

          The only reason the Crafar farms sale caused a stir was that it was one of the few land sales to foreigners that the public new about before the Overseas Investment Office rubberstamped the sale. In nearly every instance of land alienation, the first the public hears about it is after the OIO has rubberstamped the deal.

        • felix 5.2.1.2

          “* overseas being a code word for asian buyers but of course they can’t say that so they say overseas but we all know what they mean”

          Typical bigoted right wing fuck head, assuming everyone thinks the same as you.

          Again, find one. single. reference for your lie that the Labour party was ever up in arms about foreign buyers’ nationality.

          You can’t, because it’s just an out and out lie. You’re a truly horrible little shit of a human being.

          • Greywarbler 5.2.1.2.1

            felix +100

          • QoT 5.2.1.2.2

            Don’t you love how Labour criticising “overseas” buyers is in itself proof against chris’ charge of racism … yet magically it’s not because obviously non-specific language is just ~code~ for what he wants it to be?

            (Of course there has been a lot of racism around Asian property buyers, just most of it came from that bastion of journalistic integrity, Paddy Gower.)

          • North 5.2.1.2.3

            You’re so right Felix…….outright lies from Chris73 !

            Chris73 who displays a very, very much keener understanding and love of the dog-whistle than anyone else.

      • richard 5.2.2

        This morning I did a tally of how much land has been sold into overseas ownership using the OIO reports from http://www.linz.govt.nz/overseas-investment/decisions/

        Between January and July this year 143,745 ha has been alienated. That’s an average of 3,783 ha per day – assuming that the OIO rubberstamps overseas land sales 7 days a week.

        The biggest single transfer of land into foreign ownership 80,073 ha in February when Rayonier bought 74% of Matariki Forestry Group – http://www.linz.govt.nz/overseas-investment/decisions/decision-summaries/rayonier-canterbury-llc

        Of course, some transfers of land into foreign ownership are so secret that the OIO won’t tell how much was sold and who to – http://www.linz.govt.nz/overseas-investment/decisions/decision-summaries/confidential-2

        • richard 5.2.2.1

          Actually, the average daily land alienation is 678ha/day

          • vto 5.2.2.1.1

            Under National New Zealanders have ended up owning less of New Zealand and foreigners have ended up owning more of New Zealand.

            Now that has to be aspirational…

            What a result. Phewee, the path to riches lays before us. Thanks John Key, it really is a great achievement. Imagine if they get a third term – we will end up owning even less again. Wonderful wonderful. ……

            All hail the great National Party

          • Macro 5.2.2.1.2

            citation?

        • Treetop 5.2.2.2

          The government put more energy into selling land to those off shore than those trying to build and put a roof over the families head in NZ.

          • Dan1 5.2.2.2.1

            I remember back in Rowling’s time when there was an almighty kerfuffle about an American buying a hunting lodge in Fiordland/Southland somewhere. It was a cause celebre at the time, and if I remember correctly, the sale was blocked. Overseas ownership: shock horror.
            How things change!

  6. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/alcohol-pot-use_n_3914511.html

    “..A new website launched this month is comparing the direct death tolls from marijuana and alcohol use.

    If you click over to Since This Morning – you’ll see a number growing on the left, above “Deaths Directly Caused by Alcohol”-

    – while the number on the right – above “Deaths Directly Caused by Marijuana” –

    – remains at zero.

    These are estimates of the total people directly killed by each drug since the beginning of the day..”

    phillip ure..

  7. remo 7

    Calling open MIKE: Now maybe someone in ©GCSB/NSA or anywhere else in LaLa land can explain to me how come Obama is calling for airstrikes in material support of alQaeda mercenaries letting off CW SARIN supplied by Bandar BUSH to alNusra in Syria false flag? Aint there an oops in there somewhere? 12 long years killing half the Muslim population of the world BLAMED on alQaeda for 911 ! and now the national security Superstate is going to bomb the sht out of those poor souls stuck in the streets of Damascus in SUPPORT of alQaeda ? Does this not add to the FBI whistleblower Edmonds revelation of Zawahiri meeting CIA in Baku as asset? That alQaeda is ‘GLADIO’, ‘Office of Special Plans’. That alQaeda has always been ‘asset’ to the deep state? Used to leverage ongoing neocon global push through acts of terror, as in P2OG?

    Now our media don’t see even the glimpse of a question on the 12th ‘anniversary’ of the 911 atrocity as to how fkn come alQaeda are allied to house of Saudi who are allied to USA, if they did 911. Which is why he is called ‘Bandar BUSH’. Because he was in the room! ! None have researched any of the vast tracts stating openly that Syria was always a covert war run by the same neocons that did 911, that alQaeda always was asset to the CIA/PENTBOM nor evidence of the demolitions of 911. Not one question.

  8. newsense 8

    How to win: liked this from Cunliffe and it stood out among the answers as an example of his incisive communication:

    We need three things: strategy, unity and urgency

    Also thought that if Cunliffe was on a dessert island he’d be the one cooking up a signal fire or some way to get us the heck off- while as Metira Terei said Shane Jones is funny and Grant makes things bearable.

  9. amirite 9

    Why can’t we have more unbiased reporting, like this article for instance?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11124789

    • LynWiper 9.1

      I agree. Well written Rebecca Quilliam. A factual summary of what I witnessed on The Nation this morning.

      • jaymam 9.1.1

        May I just state that I was impressed by David Cunliffe on The Nation this morning, with a right wing interviewer.

  10. neoleftie 10

    With even GR distancing with self from Clare Curran one wonders if its acceptance that ABC club members are not going to be rehabilitated as backbenchers but as gone burgers come Monday.
    Strategically dunedin south is weak very weak result last election, combined with the continual social media episodes and brain explosions I believe CC will be one of four casualties after cunliffe get in on the second ballot.
    Know anti CC CV might have an opinion on this lol.

    • Saarbo 10.1

      @neoleftie

      “With even GR distancing with self from Clare Curran…”

      are you sure about this because in this mornings The Nation, GR stated that CC was within her rights to make the comments that she made, it didn’t sound like he was distancing himself from her comments to me. Given his response I get the impression he may have been involved. But the other point to make is around leadership, GR simply hasn’t displayed any on this issue, from what I can pick up, he doesn’t have any significant leadership experience….it would be a HUGE risk if he became Leader tomorrow.

      • neoleftie 10.1.1

        Should have linked to the statement grant had made.

        “Clare’s entitled to her views. I personally wouldn’t have expressed them that way, but that’s something she has to take responsibility for,” he said. As in GR.

        Last sentence is very telling…

      • neoleftie 10.1.2

        Does being H3 not count as having leadership experience.

  11. North 11

    This is interesting……..the gloss seems to be wearing off ShonKey Python amongst the really talented world-stage successful entrepreneurial class. After some years of often unctuous lionising of the fellow as some sort of land-based “oracle”.

    This from Ian Taylor (see OTD link below) –

    “It celebrates an unbroken line of design, engineering, technology, seamanship and navigation, from our Maori ancestors, who sailed the Pacific to Aotearoa, to this high-tech flying machine called Aotearoa, representing us so superbly on the waters off San Francisco Bay.”

    “No other country, or billionaire, brings to the America’s Cup a story quite like it.”

    “It is this that the world has recognised in the Team New Zealand challenge. And I wish our Prime Minister could have done the same.”

    http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/yachting/273050/opinion-pm-missing-point-americas-cup-investment

    • Greywarbler 11.1

      Acshually more of an orca-le only his tricks aren’t as well performed.

    • Saarbo 11.2

      Interesting that Key hasnt been pushing the Americas Cup. I wonder if his polling is showing that his crony capitalism is damaging National so trying to distance himself from it. Ian Taylor had a fair point, he also had an interesting idea re hosting Americas Cup outside of NZ. But i dont think that will ever happen.

    • vto 11.3

      Key has never been an entrepreneur, or even anything worthwhile.

      Key has been a salesman and ticket clipper. That is all.

      End

  12. Greywarbler 12

    Are we going to have the friday social bit? or post friday?

    • Treetop 12.1

      I hope it is not bloody Sunday tomorrow.

    • lprent 12.2

      we will – next week. I got sidetracked yesterday. As soon as I get this mac build running under linux for work, I will finish the auto-post routine for OpenMike, fridays social, and the other routine posts (that worked last weekend under test and failed when I used it for real).

      r0b used to do them.

      • Greywarbler 12.2.1

        Thanks lprent. There is a more exciting thing coming up this weekend than anything else that might occur to me. Good for r0b – he stopped bad reporting in its tracks so he is the right stuff at any time.

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