Open mike 14/10/2011

105 comments on “Open mike 14/10/2011 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   14 October 2011 at 6:14 am

   Time line released.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena-crisis/5783000/Funding-freeze-strands-Maritime-NZ

   Note that it is not till Saturday that MNZ are reported to be -“reviewing draft salvage plan”.

   This despite the Prime Minister telling the pollution affected people of Maketu:

   A national plan for such disasters had been put into action the moment the ship hit the reef

   John Key

   Is this John Key’s most shocking lie yet?

   Is John Key talking about some other plan?

   If such another (draft, or full) plan does exist, will it be released?

   WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 5
   Incident assessed to be `nationally significant’

   Safety inspector boards Rena and council staff fly over to check leaks

   Maritime NZ’s Marine Pollution Response Service mobilised

   Locals call for immediate action while the weather is fine.

   THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6

   Oil leak confirmed by aerial observation

   Dispersants field tested

   Wildlife response launched – a bird-cleaning centre in Tauranga and a base at Motiti Island

   FRIDAY, OCTOBER 7

   A specialised oiled wildlife centre is established and teams of wildlife rescue staff sent to Motiti Island

   Maritime NZ also prepares to launch a shoreline clean-up in case oil reaches land

   Opposition MPs voice criticisms of slow Government response

   SATURDAY, OCTOBER 8

   Response team at 200. Defence Force joins command centre; 500 navy personnel on standby

   MNZ reviewing draft salvage plan

   85 personnel in 14 teams are on beaches looking for animals

   SUNDAY OCTOBER 9

   The bunker barge Awanuia berths alongside Rena and a salvage team begins pumping oil

   Impending bad weather means containers have to be secured

   On-shore assessments of all areas which could be potentially affected

   Growing frustration in Tauranga at what is seen as a lack of action

   MONDAY , OCTOBER 10

   About 36 salvors, crew on Rena

   Weather hampers oil collection

   Pumping continues and all ship vents are sealed

   The on-water operation recovers 3500 tonnes of oily water

   Maketu Peninsula and Little Waihi estuaries are assessed for booms

   Oil is found on several beaches

   TUESDAY, OCTOBER 11

   Rena crew evacuated as weather worsens

   Awanuia suffers damage and returns to port

   Dispersants are used on the fresh oil leaking from the ship

   A public health warning is put in place and the public is asked to keep away

   The beach clean-up begins

   Members of the public defy officials and continue to clean up oil

   WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 12

   Rena suffers structural failure; concern stern may break away

   Three tugs are mobilised

   Shipping is rerouted as about 70 containers come adrift

   There are now 36 field teams out working on the wildlife response

   The exclusion zone is extended

   Maketu locals voice concern over oil fouling of their source of food

   THURSDAY, OCTOBER 13

   Clean-up teams have so far collected 50 tonnes of solid waste and 5 tonnes of liquid waste

   The coastline from Whangamata to Whakatane is assessed by the SCAT (Shoreline Clean-up Assessment Team)

   More than 1500 people have volunteered to help with the cleanup

   -Fairfax NZ
   • insider 1.1

     14 October 2011 at 11:16 am

     When should the salvage plan have been completed and who should have written it?
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

       14 October 2011 at 11:23 am

       Who gives a shit. There was 72 hours of good weather to make it all happen and NZ failed. The people in the Bay of Plenty and Mother Earth pay the price for that failure.

       Any “Compensation” in the form of dollar notes is pathetic.
       • insider 1.1.1.1

         14 October 2011 at 11:31 am

         So what would you have done and when? What equipment would you have needed? Where would it have come from and how long would it have taken to get there? How many people would you need and how would you deploy them?
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1

           14 October 2011 at 12:13 pm

           Not interested in your irrelevant hypothesizing now.

           Your trick of trying to make ME come up with 101 answers now is a BS deflection from the fact that Joyce and Key dropped the ball for the first 72 hours.

           Waiting for a private sector response, setting up little bird rescue stations and dispersing the first few tonnes of oil which spilt were a waste of time and effort during the first 72 hours.
           • insider 1.1.1.1.1.1

             14 October 2011 at 12:24 pm

             I take that to mean you haven’t got a clue about what was done and what should have been done, and are more interested in chucking around ill informed slogans. Well at least you’ve finally admitted it. There’s hope for you yet.
             • McFlock …

               14 October 2011 at 1:52 pm

               I would suggest that they should have a number of different plans, and when news of the grounding hit they should have been adapting the most suitable one to the specific circumstances. And shipping equipment for the more serious contingencies on that day, given that the likelihood of the worst case scenario increases exponentially once the ship actually hits rocks or the rig catches fire.
                
               So the plan review should probably have been done on Thursday.

               Whether this is a resource issue (govt fault), an department failure (slightly less of a govt fault, dept fault), best practise (communication failure -govt&dept fault), or simply a paradigm shift needed for new circumstances, I guess all that will come out in the wash.
                 
               Unlike the oil. 
               • insider …

                 14 October 2011 at 2:40 pm

                 I expect they will have a number of scenarios scoped out. you have your overall strategic response that puts in place all your command tree and your decision making principles, but you can only draw up your specific response plan as you go, because each situation is so different – dealing with a grounded ship leaking oil may be very different from a mobile ship with a similar leak. But the specific plan will be done within the broad principles of a ‘grounded ship leaking oil’ plan linked to you general ‘oil on beach’ plan etc. That’s on the oil pollution side.

                 The salvage plan is quite different again and it needs a professional salvor, and they have to first be appointed then brought in to examine the vessel and the resources available before they can develop it. ANd it has to complement the MNZ plan – not much point MNZ plan assuming a ship recovery when the salvor says it can’t be done, or the salvor saying offload the containers adn fuel when there is no capacity to do it.
                 • McFlock …

                   14 October 2011 at 10:30 pm

                   The point being that in any complex plan there are a number of things that can be done while other parts have yet to take affect.
                   Especially if there are a limited range of options to choose from.
                   This situation seemed to have been at the mercy of a rather linear thought process.
                    
                    
   • Deadly_NZ 1.2

     14 October 2011 at 11:24 am

     And the gospel according to DPF in the Granny herald, is that the ship was deliberately steered onto the reef… Jezuz what a Troll he is.

     Of course from what we know the Rena was not blown off course, but deliberately steered into a well known and marked reef. The captain and first officer have already been charged with offences.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10758985
     • Andrew Scobie 1.2.1

       14 October 2011 at 11:54 am

       It was deliberately steered into the reef, only not in the way you are interpreting. The ship was on a deliberate course, and it just so happened that they didn’t know that the reef was there, or knew it was there but forgot to avoid it (i’m tending towards the first option).

       so as the captain was in charge of the ship, you can actually say that it was deliberately steered into the reef, as they were steering the ship on a deliberate course at the time it hit.
       • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1

         14 October 2011 at 12:23 pm

         so as the captain was in charge of the ship, you can actually say that it was deliberately steered into the reef, as they were steering the ship on a deliberate course at the time it hit.

         This logic seems like a BS word game.

         eg

         I’m ‘deliberately’ driving a car around a corner when I accidentally hit and kill a 4 year old standing there on the road in the blind spot.

         The courts will recognise that as manslaughter not DELIBERATE murder.

         Just because I am ‘deliberately’ cornering at the time, does not then mean I that I ‘deliberately’ killed the kid.
       • Deadly_NZ 1.2.1.2

         14 October 2011 at 12:26 pm

         No deliberately means it went where it was DELIBERATELY aimed. There is no interpretation to deliberate. It means it was planned. And I don’t think the Captain and Crew got up that morning and said “I know lets hit a reef”. So Spin that away.
         • Andrew Scobie 1.2.1.2.1

           14 October 2011 at 12:31 pm

           OK, I’ll put it another way. It was DELIBERATELY piloted on a course that just happened to put it on an accidental collision course with a reef.
           • felix 1.2.1.2.1.1

             14 October 2011 at 1:39 pm

             Which is entirely different from Farrars “deliberately steered into a … reef”.

             The difference is that “deliberate” conveys intent. It means you’ve thought about what to do, considered your options, and decided what action to take.

             In Farrar’s sentence the Captain’s intent is not simply to steer the ship (which was your first interpretation) but to steer the ship into a reef.

             He really is a horrible little man.
             • Deadly_NZ …

               14 October 2011 at 3:44 pm

               Yeah and they censored my reply to him, where I said he was Donkeys ass kisser. Which he is.
         • Bob 1.2.1.2.2

           14 October 2011 at 1:24 pm

           The ship is is insured for US 4.2 billion dollars with a sub limit of about US 1 billion dollars for a pollution event , thats a lot of incentive , backhanders anyone ?
           • insider 1.2.1.2.2.1

             14 October 2011 at 1:37 pm

             The ship is worth 4.2 Billion? Must have some pretty nice cabins
             • Bob …

               14 October 2011 at 1:58 pm

               With the over supply of container ships and the global down turn in trade means that a lot of ships over 18 years old go to scrap , scrapping prices have been falling as well .
               This ship has been insured for 4.2 billion , second hand or as scrap it would fetch no where near this price .
               • insider …

                 14 October 2011 at 2:06 pm

                 I think you might want to cvhange your billion to a million.
                 • Bob …

                   14 October 2011 at 2:14 pm

                   That came from the Herald article this morning
                   • insider …

                     14 October 2011 at 4:10 pm

                     You’ve misread it. That is not what the ship is worth, that is their public liability insurance value. Like you having a $5k car with comp insurance, it will pay out yours up to 5k, but if you hit someone’s Ferrari, it will pay them a lot more.
                 • Colonial Viper …

                   14 October 2011 at 2:52 pm

                   $4.2M?

                   That’s the purchase price of 25 Ministerial BMWs. Might need a bit more cover than that.
           • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.2.2.2

             14 October 2011 at 1:44 pm

             The insurance guys are going to do a lot of looking around before they cut a cheque for $4B.

             I think a 20% Christchurch tax is in order there…
             • Bob …

               14 October 2011 at 2:11 pm

               And so they should , meanwhile the bay pays the price
2. Penny Bright 2

   14 October 2011 at 7:49 am

   INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY WITH THOSE OCCUPYING WALL STREET AGAINST THE BANK$TERS!

   TOMORROW!
   SATURDAY 15 OCTOBER 2011
   AUCKLAND
   3PM
   ASSEMBLE OUTSIDE BRITOMART!

   Please ditribute as widely as possible
   Please come yourself and bring family, friends and placards. Let’s show that people and the planet must come before corporate greed. Join the march against corporate greed and in solidarity with the thousands who are occupying Wall Street.

   Right now the Government and the Rena’s shipping owners need a very loud public message that many NZer’s are very angry about the unnecessary grounding and the subsequent environmental disaster caused by the Rena’s grounding on the Astrolabe Reef. This disaster is the tragic story of corporate greed, and neo-liberal policies that have reduced safety regulation, structures and resources to less than minimal, and the use of cheap workers.

   Join the Auckland March

   This Saturday 15th October

   Assemble 3.00pm

   Britomart at the bottom of Queen Street

   March to Aotea Square

   GPJA #379: SAT OCT 15 – OCCUPY AOTEAROA – “WE ARE THE 99%” – INTERNATIONAL DAY OF ACTION
   by gpjanz

   GLOBAL PEACE AND JUSTICE AUCKLAND NEWSLETTER No. 397, October 12, 2011

   OCCUPY AOTEAROA SATURDAY OCTOBER 15 – “WE ARE THE 99%” – INTERNATIONAL DAY OF ACTION

   The time has come to show your support for injustices against the New Zealand people and the crimes of the Government! Let us unite and stand as one and show the world what we can do! We stand in solidarity with the Wall St Protesters and the many other protesters standing around the world that say 1% will not continue to steal from the 99%, which is happening right now. NZ is being stripped NOW! EMPOWER YOURSELF! You are the one you have been waiting for! There will be change. There will be justice! Inspired by Occupy Wall Street http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
   AUCKLAND https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=200962876639610
   WELLINGTON http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Wellington-Nz/253279161382607
   CHRISTCHURCH https://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Christchurch/122557837848947
   DUNEDIN http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Dunedin/141220149310691

   _______________________________________________________________________

   Forwarded by Penny Bright
   Independent Public Watchdog
   Candidate for Epsom
   • Luke 2.1

     14 October 2011 at 9:31 am

     Why they are angry:

     http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
   • Ianupnorth 2.2

     14 October 2011 at 3:52 pm

     I received this today – anyone able to comment on the authenticity? If this is really happening will the media report it?

     Dear Friends,

     Urgent — tomorrow at 7 am, the New York City police plan to evict the Occupy Wall Street protesters.

     The only way to stop the eviction is a roaring outcry to New York’s billionaire mayor, Mike Bloomberg, and to the owners of the protest park. We must show them that their global reputations are on the line.

     Let’s flood their offices with phone calls! Avaaz will tell the media about the numbers of calls made, multiplying their impact on the public image of Bloomberg and Richard B. Clark — the CEO of the company that owns the park. If enough of us call now, we could turn the tide and stop the eviction–but only hours are left!

     Call the Mayor and Brookfield Properties Here:

     New York mayor Michael Bloomberg: +1-212-NEW-YORK (639-9675)
     Brookfield CEO Richard Clark: +1-212-417-7063
     Brookfield US headquarters: +1-212-417-7000
     Brookfield Canada headquarters: +1-416-369-2300
     Brookfield Australia headquarters: +61-2-9322-2000

     After calling, post a message about how the call went — to help Avaaz count the number of calls made, and demonstrate the wave of worldwide support for the protesters.

     http://www.avaaz.org/en/emergency_callin_to_stop_eviction/?vl

     Suggestions for your call:

     Say that you have a message for Brookfield CEO Richard Clark or NYC Mayor Bloomberg (depending on who you are calling)
     Stop the eviction of Zuccotti Park
     We have a constitutional right to protest.
     This is one of the biggest shows of public outrage in decades and these people represent hundreds of thousands across the world who stand with the protesters and the movement for real democracy.
     The protesters are cleaning up the park, keeping it clean and safe

     http://www.avaaz.org/en/emergency_callin_to_stop_eviction/?vl

     We can help make sure the thousands of protesters rights to freedom of speech and assembly are respected by calling Billionare Bloomberg and Brookfield. Forward to everyone!

     Emma, Morgan, Maria Paz, Alice, Ben, Rewan and the whole Avaaz team

     SOURCES:

     Occupy Wall Street protesters fear eviction from park
     http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/10/13/occupy-wall-street-protesters-fear-eviction-from-park/

     Update: Occupy Wall Street Responds to Bloomberg’s Cleaning ‘Eviction Notice’
     http://www.observer.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-responds-to-bloombergs-eviction-notice/

      
3. gareth 3

   14 October 2011 at 8:29 am

   “Note that it is not till Saturday that MNZ are reported to be -”reviewing draft salvage plan”.

   This despite the Prime Minister telling the pollution affected people of Maketu:
   A national plan for such disasters had been put into action the moment the ship hit the reef
   John Key

   Is this John Key’s most shocking lie yet?

   Is John Key talking about some other plan?

   If such another (draft, or full) plan does exist, will it be released?”

   I think you will find that the national plan is a broad response plan, while the draft which was being reviewed was one specific to the ship as produced by the salver.

   I believe the national plan has been insufficient in that there was to little response in the immediate days after the spill to contain any spilt oil or to move to protect environmentally sensitive spots like Maketu estuary. Live capture of endangered doterils (sp)etc should have begun immediately and a beach clean up effort with gear put in place and planned from the get go.

   I can understand that pumping the oil off etc isn’t something that can happen straight away as it needed to be heated to allow it to flow. Which you don’t really want to do until you are sure that the tank you are heating isn’t holed as warm fluid oil will flow out much faster than cold Vegemite like stuff. I also understand that some pipes etc need repair to allow this.

   Technical work like this is far better left to the experts which in this case are the salvers, than having bureaucrats and politicians putting an oar in.

   This is exactly where an potential rescue went wrong at Pike…..
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     14 October 2011 at 2:31 pm

     Technical work like this is far better left to the experts which in this case are the salvers…

     MNZ should have that expertise and should also be the salvers that go in and start the salvage ASAP rather than waiting for the captain to contact the ships owners, who’ll contact the insurers, who”l then contact some salvers who will then try and decide what to do. That process wastes time.
4. andy (the other one) 4

   14 October 2011 at 8:34 am

   Herald cartoon Nails it today!

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news-cartoons/news/article.cfm?c_id=500814&objectid=10758879
5. logie97 5

   14 October 2011 at 8:43 am

   MSM excels again.
   Nothing like a journalist asking patsy questions and “… I expect you are disappointed in the politicising of this, Minister…?
   WTF? Good old Geoff. He really should stick to Births, Deaths and Marriages.
   • logie97 5.1

     14 October 2011 at 6:48 pm

     Joyce spun like a top this morning, weaving an amazing web and Geoff agreed that they had done all that they could have done.

     However, according to the latest despatches, the plan is to pump from tomorrow.
     So in 24 hours, under much tougher conditions, they can install external heaters and pumps, and start extraction.

     How does that compare with Joyce’s answers this morning.

     Well Wednesday at 6 am he receives a call advising of the stranding. He could have requested/directed that they start discharging oil as soon as possible. If the ship responded that their machinery was U/S, then shore based heaters and pumps could have been despatched, and on Thursday they would have been pumping… (24 hours after stranding, just like today’s action)
6. Tiger Mountain 6

   14 October 2011 at 8:56 am

   Yeah it is getting to the stage where they just need a few ads for panel beaters and some Taylor Swift songs.
7. Tiger Mountain 7

   14 October 2011 at 9:12 am

   Oh, and the ugly New Zealander has emerged in Tauranga it seems, with a Filipino shopkeeper being abused and some of the Rena crew being flown out allegedly due to fears for their safety.
   Racist targeting by legitimately angry people, but misguided.
   • marty mars 7.1

     14 October 2011 at 12:05 pm

     Yes I agree it is misguided TM. I initially thought this could be MSM spin to distract from the deeper blame but with the guilty plea of the woman who set her dogs on asian people in christchurch, and the continued racism displayed daily in this country I feel it is probably true. Very sad.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.2

     14 October 2011 at 2:36 pm

     The nationality of the crew should not have been made public as it has nothing to do with the wreck.
8. thejackal 8

   14 October 2011 at 9:21 am

   MNZ Misinformed on Corexit

   MNZ breached the manufacturers guidelines by spraying a large amount of Corexit close to shore, where it can have an adverse effect on inhabitants. They failed to check if the dispersant would be effective prior to application and have not adequately informed the public of the health risks from Corexit 9500…
9. John Dalley 9

   14 October 2011 at 9:24 am

   What is obvious is that the larget port in New Zealand and probably the second largest port in NZ Auckland does not have a crisis responce plan or adequate large equipment including oil absorbant booms to deal with any reasonabley sizesd oil spill. One would think that it was only a matter of time before a major spill happened. And now it just has.
10. William Joyce 10

    14 October 2011 at 9:45 am

    Some “billboards” you can send to friends and foes
11. aerobubble 11

    14 October 2011 at 9:48 am

    If ACT Party is National’s bitch, that needed a makeover and stood up to National over
    covert surveilance, then what does that make Epson residents who vote ACT?
12. aerobubble 12

    14 October 2011 at 10:02 am

    Just poor management to get into a situation
    where someone cries discrimination, even worse
    that MSM urges them on by shouting its okay
    to discriminate sometimes. Immoral, Unethical
    meets poor management, poor leadership, so NZ.
    Set the bar low, then lower it, cheer, then stamp
    a brand, oh NZ fair and balanced.
13. joe90 13

    14 October 2011 at 10:41 am

    France: Far right capitalises on euro crisis.
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      14 October 2011 at 2:42 pm

      Quoting article:

      “It really is the arrival of Marine Le Pen that convinced me to join the National Front,” Engelmann told Reuters. “She has an economic program that is much more geared to defending the little people, the workers, the popular classes of France.“

      Oh dear, this guy really doesn’t understand who the RWNJs work for does he?
14. Joe Bloggs 14

    14 October 2011 at 10:50 am

    .
    Radio Works decision reveals …

    … a big fat zero

    Labour’s complaint about the PM hosting a non-political hour of talkback on Radio Live. is rejected on every ground argued and the BSA concludes:

    …even if this programme were held to be an election programme, which we do not consider it was, it would not have breached any of the standards raised by the complainant.

    One assumes that the next great leap in liberal logic will be to denounce the BSA decision as more evidence of aVast Right Wing and Non-Labour Left Wing conspiracy …
    • queenstfarmer 14.1

      14 October 2011 at 11:00 am

      That finding was obvious from the start, but of course that didn’t stop Labour activists from instantly engaging in an exercise of guilt on (their own) accusation – as Eddie’s headline falsely claimed: “Key broke law on radio show“.
      • gobsmacked 14.1.1

        14 October 2011 at 11:07 am

        The Electoral Commission is not the BSA.

        Find out what each is responsible for, if you want to stop looking foolish.
        • queenstfarmer 14.1.1.1

          14 October 2011 at 11:31 am

          Who said it wasn’t? You seem to think being right is foolish.
          • gobsmacked 14.1.1.1.1

            14 October 2011 at 11:48 am

            Commenting on the BSA, you linked to a post which has nothing to do with the BSA. The allegation of breaking the law relates to … the law. Not broadcasting standards. So your allegation of “falsely claiming” is meaningless, pending a finding on the law.

            Read the post you linked to, and the several links within it, from Graeme Edgeler, if you really want to understand the law. But then, that’s not why you’re here, is it?
            • queenstfarmer 14.1.1.1.1.1

              14 October 2011 at 12:38 pm

              Ok let’s take this nice & slow.

              1. You will find that Eddie’s post quotes the definition of “election programme” from the Broadcasting Act.

              2. Eddie’s post links to Graeme’s post, also on the Broadcasting Act and the definition of “election programme”.

              3. If you then look at the BSA decision, you will see under the heading “Findings”, it says:

              broadcast did not amount to an “election programme” for the purposes of the Broadcasting Act 1989

              Any questions?
          • aerobubble 14.1.1.1.2

            14 October 2011 at 11:50 am

            Key would never have gotten an invite if he wasn’t PM, who wants
            to talk to some snide yuppy who made it big in counting numbers.
    • Carol 14.2

      14 October 2011 at 11:01 am

      The BSA also said:

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5784939/DJ-Key-is-OK-says-BSA

      “It became clear to the authority that the legislation should be interpreted as overt or explicit encouragement or persuasion to vote in a particular way rather than incidentally or consequently amounting to encouragement or persuasion.”

      The mere presence of Key did not make it an election programme under current law.

      This indicates that there is some room to consider whether the current law is adequate. The law seems to assume that electioneering is a process of explicitly saying “vote for us because”. But it is pretty obvious that National’s main election strategy is to promote brand Key rather than to foreground National’s policy and performance. In fact, National’s strategy is to promote Key through photo ops and positive associations, and to avoid anything too negative associated with Key.
    • gobsmacked 14.3

      14 October 2011 at 11:01 am

      Joe Bloggs needs a great leap in reading comprehension skills:

      We can of course see that some political advantage will accrue to the Prime Minister and the party to which he belongs from exposures of this kind. It is not for us to say whether this should or should not be permitted; we are required to deal with the law as it stands.

      The word “of course” should have helped you there, Joe. It’s kind of a giveaway.

      The BSA confirms that the broadcast was political propaganda, but says their hands are tied.
      • queenstfarmer 14.3.1

        14 October 2011 at 11:36 am

        Yeah, damn that thing called “the law” that “ties the hands” of the BSA from just going around making up rulings against people.
        • gobsmacked 14.3.1.1

          14 October 2011 at 11:53 am

          I note you do not dispute the BSA finding, that Key’s programme was about “political advantage”. I agree.
          • queenstfarmer 14.3.1.1.1

            14 October 2011 at 12:29 pm

            Yes I do agree. It is exactly what I said the other day.

            And it also confirms that Labour made a strategic blunder by filing a hopeless complaint, when what they should have done was lobby for a slot for Phil. Which I also said I supported, and would probably have been advantageous to Phil, who I think would come across well in that sort of setting.

            But as I said, it’s an own-goal by Labour here.
            • Carol 14.3.1.1.1.1

              14 October 2011 at 1:13 pm

              No, filing a complaint has drawn to public/media attention that the law is inadequate and that Key gained some advantage from the broadcast

              http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/88274/bsa-clears-prime-minister's-radio-show

              The authority accepts, however, that Mr Key and the National Party would gain some political advantage from such appearances.

              Labour Party leader Phil Goff says the show hosted was inherently unfair.

              Mr Goff says it was far easier for Mr Key to talk about his cat than face questions about New Zealand’s credit rating.

              He says the law is supposed to ensure that things are equal and fair during an election campaign, and the legislation may need to be looked at.
            • Draco T Bastard 14.3.1.1.1.2

              14 October 2011 at 2:53 pm

              But as I said, it’s an own-goal by Labour here.

              Nope, more of an own goal for National and MW. The finding that the show was political shows that law, as it presently stands, is broken which has now been highlighted by Labours actions. This will reflect badly on Key/National because people will see it as him using his position as PM for political advantage and MW will be seen as politically biased possibly due to National loaning them $43m of our money as it did not offer the same advantage to every other party leader.
15. Caernarfon 15

    14 October 2011 at 10:50 am

    A republican monarchy ?

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/tom-nairn/republican-monarchy-england-and-revolution?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzEmail&utm_content=201210&utm_campaign=0

    [Bunji: off-topic, moved to OpenMike]
16. John Dalley 16

    14 October 2011 at 10:54 am

    Did i hear right on TV3 news last night?
    I noted someone with a bulldozer trying to pull containers/stuff up the beach and they where told to stop because they did not have a correct safety plan or something like that.
    Could this be government gone mad?
    • drx 16.1

      14 October 2011 at 11:14 am

      Yes I heard that too. Bizarre.
    • insider 16.2

      14 October 2011 at 11:20 am

      I don’t think it is this govt gone mad – it is the accumulation of generations of H&S regulation and generally that has been a good thing. That said, who knows what was in the container. WHat if they broke it open and it tipped something nasty onto the beach? Would the guy with the bulldozer be willing to pay to clean it up?
    • joe90 16.3

      14 October 2011 at 11:37 am

      To anyone with experience as a rigger hauling a container with a bulldozer without a safety plan sounds like a recipe for disaster.

      Citing an old riggers adage, the biggest strop may not be the best simply because it may not be big enough.
17. randal 17

    14 October 2011 at 11:26 am

    logie..you right dude. poor geoff. they talk about bullying but it comes from the top down doesn’t it. Nobody gets a chance till its been through their vetting machine. they self appointed gatekeepers for the tories but they claim to be objective. more malice in blunderland stuff, isnt it. He should retire and get a job on radio skawkback where he would be right at home with the used car salesman types, shouldnt he.
18. Deadly_NZ 18

    14 October 2011 at 11:28 am

    It’s the usual for this Govt all chiefs and NO indians.
19. William Joyce 19

    14 October 2011 at 11:32 am

    Just to be pedantic…since the Rena grounding I have wondered if all these years I had been mispronouncing ASTROLABE.
    Every journo and pollie has been pronouncing it ASTRO LAB.
    Today it finally got to me so I checked it on the interweb –
    It is pronounced as-truh-leyb.
     
    Just a bit grumpy-old-man but we must have standards! Next people will be parking across two spaces, pulling out of supermarket aisles without looking and overusing the word “ackchully”
    • insider 19.1

      14 October 2011 at 11:51 am

      Apparantly that is what the locals call it, according to RNZ, so they are following that pronunciation – a bit like Al -b’ney instead of Awl-b’ney.

      Course the media are very selective on their application of this rule and are quite happy to impose their centralised view of what is correct when it suits – cf. Wanagnui, Waikouaiti, or Hakatere
      • Puddleglum 19.1.1

        14 October 2011 at 1:54 pm

        Never took you for a post-modern, localist, relativist Insider.

        I see you in a whole new way now.

        Interesting.

        BTW, that’s “apparently” not “apparantly” – or is that the way they spell it round your way?

        Suddenly, meeting National Standards gets a whole lot easier. After all, I’m sure it is not intended to “impose their centralised view of what is correct when it suits”.
        • insider 19.1.1.1

          14 October 2011 at 2:04 pm

          It was just my lazy fingers PG. PS, you missed Wanagnui..

          As an aside, Aaaavondale or Avondale? 😉
          • felix 19.1.1.1.1

            14 October 2011 at 2:29 pm

            Avonda-lé. More classier. 😀
          • Puddleglum 19.1.1.1.2

            14 October 2011 at 2:56 pm

            “PS, you missed Wanagnui..”

            And, on World Standards Day too … even the pedants (like me – that’s ‘ped – ants‘ not ‘pee dance‘) are getting sloppy. 

            At this rate I’ll start thinking that I understand John Key’s statements … 🙂 
          • Puddleglum 19.1.1.1.3

            14 October 2011 at 3:03 pm

            “As an aside, Aaaavondale or Avondale?”

            Apparently, it’s ‘a-van-dal’ – and it has to be said with an American accent  

            P.S. – I couldn’t find how to put in the ‘long a’ symbol in ‘dal’
            • insider 19.1.1.1.3.1

              14 October 2011 at 3:12 pm

              I’ve always used a short ‘a’ which is the way they call the Auckland suburb and aligned with the Welsh pronunciation of Avon but I’ve noticed in Chch they use the long A which is the English Avon. You’re a cantab, whcih is it?
              • Puddleglum …

                14 October 2011 at 4:50 pm

                Down here it’s Aaavandale (yes, van). But I hope any radio announcer uses its correct pronunciation.

                Also, did you hear David Farrar and whoever was on the Panel – a couple of nights ago – with him going on about people’s problems with ‘pronOUNCiation’? I love the irony of that. 
                • felix …

                  14 October 2011 at 10:57 pm

                  Verbal equivalent of Muphrey’s Law.
                  • Puddleglum …

                    14 October 2011 at 11:07 pm

                    I think that’s ‘Muphry’s Law’.

                    But, then, you’re clever enough to mean your misspelling 🙂
                    • felix …

                      14 October 2011 at 11:15 pm

                      Haha! Not in this case, quite wonderfully.
                    • Puddleglum …

                      14 October 2011 at 11:24 pm

                      🙂

                      Even better 
    • Carol 19.2

      14 October 2011 at 1:16 pm

      Just a bit grumpy-old-man but we must have standards! Next people will be parking across two spaces, pulling out of supermarket aisles without looking and overusing the word “ackchully”

      And spelling EpsoM as EpsoN as I’ve sen a couple of times lately on The Standard.
20. randal 20

    14 October 2011 at 11:58 am

    I see John Keys showing his true colours in the Dompost this morning, wasnt he. First of all he demeaned Phill goff for rolling up his shirt sleeves and getting stuck in and then he used a dubyaism. i.e. “there are no silver clouds”. what does that mean? The subtext is that he only knows how to count other peoples money and using language that conveys any nuance or recondite meaning is foreign territory for a money manque. He should get a life.
21. joe90 21

    14 October 2011 at 2:13 pm

    The Scientific Guide to Global Warming Skepticism

    Scientific skepticism is healthy. In fact, science by its very nature is skeptical. Genuine skepticism means considering the full body of evidence before coming to a conclusion. However, when you take a close look at arguments expressing climate ‘skepticism’, what you often observe is cherry picking of pieces of evidence while rejecting any data that don’t fit the desired picture. This isn’t skepticism. It is ignoring facts and the science.

    The Scientific Guide to Global Warming Skepticism looks at both the evidence that human activity is causing global warming and the ways that climate ‘skeptic’ arguments can mislead by presenting only small pieces of the puzzle rather than the full picture.
    • Draco T Bastard 21.1

      14 October 2011 at 3:03 pm

      This isn’t skepticism. It is ignoring facts and the science.

      Yeah, we’ve been trying to tell the climate change “skeptics” that for awhile now.
22. NickS 22

    14 October 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Surprised no-ones posted this yet:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/5775355/Govt-confirms-ACC-levy-cuts-to-go-ahead

    So what was that about ACC being in a crisis again?…
    • felix 22.1

      14 October 2011 at 2:42 pm

      I think you’ll find it has experienced a miraculous recovery due to National’s magical management of the economy.
      • NickS 22.1.1

        14 October 2011 at 9:29 pm

        *head explodes*

        The contradictions inherent in that truly art a Lovecroftian mind destroy horror…
    • Draco T Bastard 22.2

      14 October 2011 at 3:05 pm

      Yeah, it was noticed. Doesn’t seem to have made a big splash though probably because of the RWC and then the Rena shambles.

      Nats promise wholesale ACC privatisation
      • NickS 22.2.1

        14 October 2011 at 9:38 pm

        Definition of madness no?

        Might have to jump into that comment thread actually (after sleep/coffee), for the stupid burning bright is such an attractive delight.

        For cluebat practice that is.

        As In Vino Veritas is truly full of shit on the 12B liabilities issue.
23. Ianupnorth 23

    14 October 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Just in http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10758841

    Disgraced former Act MP David Garrett has been suspended from practise for a year after swearing a false affidavit to a court while working as a lawyer.
     

    Am I alone in thinking a one year ban is a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket? The bloke is a liar and a criminal!
24. Herodotus 24

    14 October 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Still no news on Goffs Christmas undertaking to buy a gem. Hope that this was not another example of hollow utterings from a leader of a political party. All promises but no delivery.
    Especially as there are now few unblemished areas within the east coast of the coromandel this becomes even more valuable to NZ inc.
    http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/government-must-preserve-new-chums-beach-labour/5/76271
    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/01/04/preserve-new-chum-wainuiototo-beach-for-everyone/
25. Puddleglum 25

    14 October 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Just heard Barry Corbett on The Panel. His ‘what am I thinking about’ was a warning to ‘politicians’ not to ‘moan’.

    He then detailed two examples of how Labour has been moaning – Darien Fenton’s comment about Peter Leitch on Facebook and Phil Goff (and Labour’s) complaint over the PM’s hour.

    Corbett waxed lyrical about Peter Leitch and then said he thought the PMs hour was just an ‘interesting’ bit of radio and not political. He then mentioned how Geoffrey Palmer had hosted an hour of his breakfast show in 1989. When Mora – or maybe Bruce Slane – raised the question of timing, Corbett said it was just before Moore took over. Odd that, I thought Moore took over a matter of weeks before the November (?) election in 1990 (not 1989).

    He strongly criticised Labour – Fenton and Goff by name – for moaning – calling them “moaners”. Defamatory?

    So far as I could detect there was no ‘balance’ – just a targetted and prolonged attack on Fenton, Goff and Labour in general.

    Obviously his days as a guest on The Panel are now numbered. 
    • willie maley 25.1

      14 October 2011 at 5:27 pm

      Don’t be holding your breath on that one PG.
      • Puddleglum 25.1.1

        14 October 2011 at 5:36 pm

        I never hold my breath when I’m waiting for consistent responses.
    • Puddleglum 25.2

      14 October 2011 at 5:45 pm

      The audio is here here

      Starts about 3min29s in. He tries to dress it up as ‘advice to politicians’.
26. TonyP 26

    14 October 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Here we go. League tables for Early Childhood.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5786367/More-childcare-centre-information-for-parents-Nats
27. The Jackal 27

    14 October 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Rena’s Inventory Request

    On Wednesday 12 October, I sent an email to Maritime New Zealand (MNZ) formally requesting under the Official Information Act 1982 a copy of the MV Rena’s inventory. I made my request because of the differing stories authorities had been telling us about what Rena is carrying…
28. prism 28

    14 October 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Sorry I put this item first on weekend social. Got the date right but turned up at the wrong place. Woe is me. Perhaps the social post one could be wiped – it’s not the sort of thing to lighten your heart and encourage a smile.

    Der Spiegel has a damning report on Austrian poltical and financial bigwigs. Selling off government property and getting kickbacks, etc etc. The right wing free market neo liberals whatever don’t seem to be able to keep their scheming greedy luxury power and money-obssessed brains under control.

    They must have voice activated dictation machines by their beds in case they come up with a new idea in their dreams and utter some choice clues as to new ways of wringing the money out of other people’s hands and pockets And where is the payoff for the rest of us whose minds are too pedestrian for such convoluted diabolical schemes?
29. Colonial Viper 29

    14 October 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Wealthy TVNZ execs pay themselves more while firing staff

    Stop the 1%.

    Television New Zealand top bosses have scored big pay rises while laying off staff and cutting costs.

    The company annual report tabled in Parliament this week showed the highest earner – believed to be chief executive Rick Ellis – was paid $910,000 to $920,000 in the year to June 30, compared to $750,000 to $760,000 for the previous year.

    The second highest earner – believed to be head of sales and marketing Paul Maher – earned $680,000 to $690,000 up from $560,000-570,000 last year.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10758828
30. William Joyce 30

    14 October 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Campbell Live have revealed another wrinkle in the Rena debate.
    I think the time line goes:

    – NZ needed to update it’s legislation based on 1976 arrangements regarding compensation.
    – Someone wrote to Annette King about this being over looked.
    – A 2008 select committee forwarded the necessary legislation to the house (which I assume to mean Annette King tool heed of the problem).
    – Then came the election.
    – Steven Joyce takes over as minister.
    – The legislation drops down the list of priority  and nothing is done, (probably boy racer legislation that has never been used was more important!)
    – Rena runs a ground and we lose the opportunity of another $17 mil in compensation.

     
    Another failure of ministerial responsibility?
    How much of our money has this government pissed away and sacked people to cover it?
    How many other pieces of useless legislation was rushed through in urgency ahead of this one?
    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      15 October 2011 at 9:56 am

      How many other pieces of useless legislation was rushed through in urgency ahead of this one?

      VSM and three strikes were clearly more important.
31. The Jackal 31

    14 October 2011 at 9:12 pm

    John Key’s Challenge

    On Wednesday 12th October, John Key challenged all of the people who think the Government’s response to the Rena disaster was too slow to put up or shut up.
    • Vicky32 31.1

      15 October 2011 at 1:25 am

      John Key challenged all of the people who think the Government’s response to the Rena disaster was too slow to put up or shut up.

      What does that even mean?
32. Di 32

    14 October 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Phil Heatley, Minister of Fisheries, is not content with just allowing parts of the Ross sea to be fished so he has decided to lift the set net ban in an area at the top of the South Island which is frequented by the endangered Hector’s dolphins.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/5787628/Lifting-of-set-net-ban-endangers-dolphin

    I have just written my second email to him this week. ( p.heatley@ministers.govt.nz )
33. the pink postman 33

    14 October 2011 at 10:24 pm

    The Pike mining and the Rena disaster plus the leaky homes are the result of National Party policies.It was the Nats whe deregulated shipping and through the Employment Contract Act decimated Unions thus allowing these rust buckets in to,our ports. It was the Nats who allowed untreated timber and deregulated the building codes and it was the Nats who reduced the number of mining inspectors . The unsafe conditions now being made public in Pike mine would never have happened if we still had strong unions. Now they are spending more time trying to get photo opportunities that trying to clean up this oil polluted beach. As have said before who the hell votes for these bastards
    • RedLogix 33.1

      15 October 2011 at 9:31 am

      allowing these rust buckets in to,our ports.

      Not entirely fair to characterise the Rena as a ‘rust bucket’. Oddly enough it would appear that the owner and operators of the Rena, Costamare Shipping Company, would seem to be one of the more reputable operators. The ship has visited the Port of Tauranga many times before and has been regularly inspected by MNZ.

      Until the exact cause of this grounding is known I’m not sure I’d want to get too high and mighty about the ship itself. What does interest me is the crew operation. Clearly something has gone badly wrong at the command level and there will be a systemic reason for this.

      The NZ Maritime Union has already pointed out the dangers inherent in the long hours and poor conditions these Filipino seamen have been forced to work under; conditions that would be entirely unacceptable to any Western crew. It’s my betting this will prove the root cause.
      • aerobubble 33.1.1

        15 October 2011 at 11:18 am

        Desprate people, unpaid, take bribes allegdely to scuttle businesses. In the finance
        industy those bribe might be known as bonuses.

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