Bomber Bradbury has posted on the stupidity of certain Labour MPs’ attack on the Standard and I must admit I side with Bomber. The MPs, including Shearer, would be better off seeking a guest post and hanging around to answer questions and join in the debate rather than slag off their critics. After all many of us are the pamphlet deliverers, billboard erectors and activists whose effect you just can’t buy unless you have very deep pockets.
When the collective voices who use The Standard (that I’m told is full of “meaningless opinion”), entered a high stakes game where it was known that the tendency of one of the participants – the MSM – was to pick up and control group identities for their own ends, they crossed a line that can’t be re-crossed just because the heat is on and it’s bit uncomfortable. The targets chosen, formally allies, aren’t going to pat you on the head and forget. The reality is that in the real world, when you challenge the hierarchy, you carry through or you get squashed beyond all recognition.
Whichever side of the line you sit, you are now identified as from “The Standard”. No amount of rationalisation or links to the “About” section from lprent will convince the MSM of anything that they’d rather make up to help their stories. We don’t control the MSM.
Fight for whatever constructive ends within the broader labour movement you represent.
Meaningless opinion, from a “rag-tag bunch of intellectual lightwieghts” has some pretty powerful meaning now, doesn’t it? Owning our words, in the spirit of responsible free speech, isn’t just an abstract context. Was the “revolution” really as far away as believed?
Uturn
Do you mean that we shouldn’t put forward our concerns and ideas freely because the MSM picks them up and screws them round before publishing something that is written to provide a good story rather than the truth? This would be require us to bow to self-censorship and truly result in a whispering campaign. And I don’t know how Labour Party matters can be discussed widely as well as they are in this blog as it is run at present.
If dissatisfaction and wish for change for better outcomes must be kept quiet because the lurkers from the sometimes mendacious media are listening then our present political system will continue towards theatre of no substantive value to we citizens, and probably develop into a true circus such as we see in the USA.
Prism, a person should say what they need to say, what needs to said, to suit the occasion. Question everything, even your own ideas. Doing so will attract consequences.
Uturn
I find your meaning obscure. Are you saying that we have meaningless opinion and just throw them like custard pies, into pollies faces? And where was a “rag-tag bunch of intellectual lightwieghts” referred to?
Meaningless opinion, from a “rag-tag bunch of intellectual lightwieghts” has some pretty powerful meaning now, doesn’t it? Owning our words, in the spirit of responsible free speech, isn’t just an abstract context. Was the “revolution” really as far away as believed?
Ragtag bunch etc was a quote from a popular unsympathetic visitor to The Standard a few days ago.
Meaningless opinion etc was paraphrased from a comment from a regular sympathetic visitor to The Standard, last week, regarding an earlier consensus of value on this site.
One thing I have always noted with individuals from the MSM is that most are susceptible to reasoned directed criticism of whatever they wrote – even if it is written with passion. They tend not to be particularly stupid.
We have drawn some blood over the years from some of them when they have in the view of one or more of our authors walked over the line. Most of the time it is stated as being rejected or ignored. But if there is an argument in there that is valid (and with our authors there usually is), then you frequently see shifts in their writing to deal with it over time. Why? Because if someone thinks it and there are other opinions that bolster it with their observations, then many amongst their audience will as well.
In other words we are outside observers and critics of media, a role that is largely filled in NZ with just MediaWatch, throng, the BSA and the like and a few awards ceremonies.
For all of their irritation and moaning about the upstarts on the blogs, I get the feeling that they rather welcome blogs. We can and do say things that stir up the environment. They sure as hell read us. The IP’s show that quite clearly.
Sheesh! The Labour caucus can include it’s membership, so you’re insulting a large group of people there Blue. Perhaps the Labour bashing hord might like to take a deep breath and come back down to earth with some reasoned debate. Because with comments like that, it’s no wonder you’re being ignored.
In my opinion, the Labour party needs to embrace social media en masse. Look at the respect gained for Labour politicians who have actually made the effort to engage with the public on forums such as The Standard. Look at how effective the Obama campaign was through its use of social media. Look at how well the Greens utilize social media to reach people with similar beliefs. They clearly work with their activists, not against them, and that’s political strength money usually can’t buy…
Shearer’s office ought to have someone in charge of Social Media. This would not only involve monitoring of blogs or posting in twitter or facebook but actually maintaining contact with the blogs and doing such things as offering guest posts and responding to criticism. If it is good enough for Shearer, for instance, to appear in the Women’s Weekly why shouldn’t he appear occasionally in the Standard. I am certain that Cunliffe would do it better.
From the various MPs comments they do not seem to realise how the left wing works. It prefers robust debate and people being brave and fronting up and saying what they think. A clash of ideas is a good thing.
Two years ago at Congress the party had a session on social media in particular Red Alert led by Mallard which was actually quite good. The Parliamentary Party seems to have forgotten what it knew then even though blogs are far more important now than then.
And I agree with other comments made that Labour ought to be bringing the Standard into the loop quick fast. This us and them mentality is weird.
Quite right. As a regular commenter on the Standard I demand that the Labour caucus consults with me on a regular basis. As well as always being correct, my opinions matter, God damn it!
The only issue will be finding time for this meeting between Dungeons and Dragons club and masturbating furiously to specialist online porn.
[lprent: Sorry. That gave me an image of a big black haired monkey wanking at the sight of a orc and elf orgy. Is that you had in mind? What are you trying to say? puzzled ]
My point, lprent, is that who is “the Standard” when calls are made for Labour to consult with it.
Are we talking about the authors? are we tallking about you? or are we talking about the commenters, alot of whom are retarded onanists (I was using myself as an example). What the hell good does this do Labour, Surely if you want to “consult” you do it with your own members through traditional avenues rather than engage some stinky hippy who has a passing interest because they are “of the left”.
Actually I’d agree. I really don’t want to “be consulted”. I don’t have the time or really the interest in doing a politicians job. After all knowing the constituency and party is one of their basic duties.
Like you, I suspect that the simplest solution would be to open up clogged arteries of debate inside the NZLP and get it so that the likes of myself and Bill (at very different ends of the political spectrum) could do something constructive there.
But both of us in our varied ways have given up on that. Bill long ago because of the clamping down on ideological debate and me more recently because the caucus have about as much hope of organising an winning election campaign as any other flock of chickens. One of them will always try self-immolation by guillotine in an attempt to encourage a short-cut.
BTW: that last sentence was put in exclusively for your amusement.
well, I still chuckle at the employment of “Shoplifters of The World Unite”
i think that The Standard is bloody good humour and satire amidst some serious issues
My point, lprent, is that who is “the Standard” when calls are made for Labour to consult with it.
Let the MPs guest post here and then engage with the punters. Authors can then write their own posts in response (kind of like what has happened this week). TS mods might be kind enough to mod a bit harder, and Labour (or the Greens or whoever) would need to skill themselves in internet debate and familiarise themselves with the culture of TS (and select which MPs posted here very carefully).
That could happen but we’d have to be careful about the timings. Such posts would obviously be a pretty high target for trolls and they do require higher moderation levels to act as troll intimidation.
We did that for the leadership posts and it was a considerable strain on my time and probably the other moderators. The posts would turn up whenever. Posting them as soon as possible and in a timely fashion meant that it cut significantly into our time.
I’d go for weekends when it is easier for at least me to allocate time to moderate.
The other problem with MP’s posting is that almost without exception, they write pretty boring posts.
Yeah, have to admit I don’t read over there anymore since they changed the format. I guess that is the problem with using a blog to promote policy. It’s not the kind of blogging I was thinking of.
It prefers robust debate and people being brave and fronting up and saying what they think.
Well, not really! Some things are considered unsayable, and that must be admitted.
There are little boxes, and ‘The Left’ is defined by the loudest, and may I say (QoT) the most aggressive people.. and those of us who disagree on some points, are ceremonially expelled from the ‘Left Box’, when those others don’t really have the right.
Which is why I dislike the whole “Left” / “Right” paradigm Vicky.
All it ever does is stump conversation.
“Good Civilised” , “Evil Civilised” and “Not Civilised” says it all much better.
There is science behind the word Civilised whereas there is only heartfelt ideology in the political alignments of “Left” and “Right”.
Labour could better utilise their blog site, pity that those causing all the self inflicted injuries are also the same that administer the site !!
It is extremely sad that the same comments being made in 07/08 regarding the lack of connectivity with the electorate is still evident. Given the need for a political party to be seen as being connected and have policies that benefit day to day living. especially as many of today’s pressing issues have been around for quite some time. House affordability, current account, NZ indebtness etc http://www.interest.co.nz/property/home-loan-affordability
At least someone in officialdom within Labour is reading posts on this site- perhaps they have been for quite some time.
I thought that these Tumeke quotes were interesting and especially that of Little, the union bloke. I would have thought with his background he might be interested in hearing and thinking what ‘the people’ have to say.
Little’s reply to a journalist about the blogs, “The blogs dont get to vote in the labour party, so we dont pay much consideration to it”. Clayton Cosgrove’s, “Blogs,who cares about blogs” and Shearer’s “I don’t read blogs” and that they are “nonsense” are about as close to a modern day political suicide note as one can get.
But the idea expressed in Tumeke that The Standard commenters would be happy if there was an effort ‘to bring them into the loop’ by Labour is strange when the main tenor of the discourse is that Labour’s loop is too exclusive and is strangling the healthy progression of the Party.
Criticisms are not brainless bloggers random farts but come from those with deep dissatisfaction about the Labour Party leaders’ lack of vitality and lack of desire to return to Labour values and concerns of the past. These need to be relevant to the present and future, which requires thought research and discussion, then action, not just flaccid promises about looking after the popularly vulnerable, like old people and children.
The unpopularly vulnerable need help and real opportunities too, and the country itself is on this side. NZ itself is vulnerable and being made more so. Plugging the gaps then building a robust country with human values is a bigger job than the present Labour bunch will be able to make an impression on. The damn Party has been hijacked by the comfortably off. If they won’t kick themselves into awareness then action to produce good policies to govern the country intelligently and ably, someone will keep putting drawing pins on their padded armchairs.
Having met and spoken with Andrew Little more than once around the topic of NZ’s monetary supply, and so forth, he struck me as somewhat “flakey” , in that while he was knowledgeable on the topic, and indicated keeness to speak out against about it, and bring it into the “mainstream” consciousness, he was not being honest when he said it.
Appreciate that Little is not a finance spoksman, but his comments of which have been mentioned on the blog, and by yourself above, indicate there is hypocracy there, and to expect much more from Little (in any sense), would be to expect David Parker to speak against the neo-liberal capitalist scam!
No no, these people are as “arm up back” as anyone who has come before them!
But the idea expressed in Tumeke that The Standard commenters would be happy if there was an effort ‘to bring them into the loop’ by Labour is strange when the main tenor of the discourse is that Labour’s loop is too exclusive and is strangling the healthy progression of the Party.
I can’t recall anyone really arguing for that. Maybe CV when he has floated an idea that we should start a party (urrgh – I got interested in politics to ensure that I didn’t have to enter politics) which sank rapidly.
Many of the people who author and comment here are actively involved in either Labour of the Greens or elsewhere or have actively decided to not be active in those or other organisations at some stage.
What you hear with the people actively involved in Labour are screams of frustration about how damn hard it is to get anything changed, or an almost complete (and rather telling) silence, or what amount to demands for unthinking loyalty. For the ones who stopped being members or activists for Labour you mostly hear that they consider that the party left them.
If I get time today, I’ll finish off the 3 posts I currently have part written on this. But in the meantime try this from Jordan Carter..
Labour’s annual conference meets in Auckland this weekend. It’s the most important conference in a generation. Changes are on the table that will fundamentally change Labour, bringing it closer to the public and making it fit to lead New Zealand again.
Stepping back from the day to day rush (and the chitter chatter about leadership issues, which is wildly overblown), Labour has taken the past few months to consider its structure and the way it organises. It hasn’t been an internally focused review, though the outcomes being debated this weekend are focused on what Labour does.
New Zealanders have no patience these days for political parties or governments that claim to know it all. People no longer accept that Wellington Knows Best (if ever they did). Pushing decisions downwards and outwards to communities and to local democracy has been an important part of politics now for years.
That’s why we brought in elected DHBs. That’s why we extended the remit of local government. That’s why an earlier Labour government brought in Tomorrow’s Schools. People know what they need and what they want, and the central State doesn’t always have to make those calls for them.
Labour’s internal structures have not kept up, and nor has its culture. We can all cite examples in the 2000s and before when Labour left an impression of knowing best. The whole “Nanny State” thing could never have emerged without some substance behind it, after all.
What you are seeing on the blogs is a direct reflection of that impatience with dadda knows best inside the party. Activists elect MP’s and then they damn well expect the MP’s to perform. It may not be what individual activists want, but it should be in the line laid out by the party as a whole. Currently caucus essentially can and largely does ignore anything outside of their internal incestuous wellington fuckfest (I’m nowhere near as nice as Jordan) and actively avoids being responsible to anyone. That has to change.
Ok lprent. It seems to me that if Labour elite does not loosen up and ensures it includes its own people in the loop eg decision making, say for leader and electorate MP candidates, then there is going to be a lesser Labour Party around the next election which will make it harder to get the home run they ought to enoy.
Hell – I’d settle for almost any kind of change inside the party and the relationship between the parliamentary team and the party good or bad. It at least means that the system can change
The current systems for almost anything you want to look at inside Labour are fossilized in mid-70’s rust. It has been held together and given a appearance of life by a few gifted politicians from the 70’s (Clark, Cullen, and a few others) for decades as a result of the ruptures in the party from the 80’s. They knew how a political party should operate and acted accordingly on an individual basis.
Problem is that the current group don’t understand the difference between a live party and a zombie one. Which is pretty clear when you see their comments related to any criticism.
Strategically getting the process of change working again is the most important thing that can happen right now. The second most important is to make sure it doesn’t stall in a feel-good and meaningless fuzziness sense of achievement.Which is what I expect that many in the ‘elite’ would like
Nice comments by Jordan, but Jordan likes the status quo a bit too much and hence will not back anything more than mild incremental change. Certainly much less than today’s dire circumstances require.
I can’t recall anyone really arguing for that. Maybe CV when he has floated an idea that we should start a party (urrgh – I got interested in politics to ensure that I didn’t have to enter politics) which sank rapidly.
I’ve been convinced over time that cleaning up, clearing out and and rebuilding an existing one is a much better idea.
Another example of deep misanthropy from Anne Tolley. Speaking in a clipped tone ‘We are not in the business of (prisoner’s) storage’. WTF the prisoners themselves are actually in storage. And they are people taken temporarily out of society as the main means of dealing with antisocial and criminal behaviour, which does not put rehabilitation and some restitution and atonement first. But they are people and we hope for them to be rehabilitated somewhat after the prison experience so how can they be helped by refusing to hold their reasonable possessions which should include their physical items of work while in prison, like carvings and paintings. Also their clothes and family items. Some of these people will not have any other reliable and safe place where they can be stored. Losing their memorials of their own history and past is bad for them.
Everything the Tories do is business and as a business it’s all about cutting costs and boosting profit. It’s not about the people or doing things in such a way so that those people actually have a good living standard.
Another example of deep misanthropy from Anne Tolley.
How refreshing to see some criticism of someone/something other than Labour! I was beginning to think I’d stumbled on to a Right wing/libertarian site (as they’re the ones who promote cannabis/abortion/LGBLT lifestyles and yet hate Labour)…
Never mind about all this kerfuffle Mr Shearer, Granny is there to defend you and your friends against those nasty kids from the wrong side of the tracks:
He appears to be a moderate, responsible decision-maker and a personality the country would like when Labour’s time comes. That cannot be said for some of his possible replacements. All he may need is time.
Final quote from Herald editorial.
Suffice to say, what arrogance, ignorance and slanderous clap-trap coming from supposedly educated and informed individuals. In a bygone era they could be shot at dawn.
There are only three people who are currently qualified (to one degree or another) for the position of Labour Party leader – David Cunliffe, David Parker and Grant Robertson.
So the Herald believes all three are extreme, irresponsible individuals with serious personality defects?
What a bunch of silly wankers!!!
Don’t read Fran O’S any more and can’t be bothered with the Pagani eulogy, but:
surprise, surprise! They all appear on the same day. Now wouldn’t it be interesting to know who organised it!
But the idea expressed in Tumeke that The Standard commenters would be happy if there was an effort ‘to bring them into the loop’ by Labour is strange when the main tenor of the discourse is that Labour’s loop is too exclusive and is strangling the healthy progression of the Party.
Let me clear up my comments here. If Shearer is still leader after February – for better or for worse, (and I’m sure you all know my opinion on that issue), then the first thing Shearer’s office needs to do is reach out to the left wing blogs and start bringing them into the loop starting with The Standard.
The Standard is the largest left wing blog in the NZ Blogosphere, it is bordering on outright insanity if the Labour Party leadership want to start a civil war with their own bloggers. In America, twitter has overtaken bloggers as the opinion shaping social media, but in NZ, because of our lack of ideological diversity amongst our newspapers, blogging will still be the main influencer…
…Labour need to play smart and work with the left wing blogs, not attack them and part of that must be an opening up and communicating with the left blogs.
You would never see the National Party attack farrar or slater like this and it would be unthinkable for anyone in the Obama camp to attack huffington post – Labour Party strategists don’t seem to understand how important the blogs will be this election.
My comments in the post referred to was a peace offering to the leadership about finding a way out of this current stand off because if Shearer remains as leader and continues to stab at the blogs, it’s a war he’ll lose.
What we all have in common is a deep desire to see the end of this hateful National Government and the criticism that has been thrown Labour’s way is driven by that desire to see a leader who can beat Key.
A little bit of engagement would do them good. Let’s face it, they do read ts…or their advisors or whoever do. And it does seem a bit fcked up to me that on the one hand DS keeps banging on about he is ‘listening to people’ in the provinces and so on, on the one hand, and then being utterly dismissive of those able and willing to speak on the other.
As for ‘in the loop’…if I’m understanding you correctly. Nah. Neither the Labour Party nor any of the other parties that claim to represent the left in parliament define the left. And that’s as it should be.
Yep, when a politician says they’re “listening to the people” it means they’re “talking at the people”.
Especially worrying if they refer to “the people OUT THERE”. Any public figure who uses that phrase is not to be trusted. They’re not part of the people, they’re something else.
Yep, when a politician says they’re “listening to the people” it means they’re “talking at the people”.
QFT
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It seems that such is endemic to hierarchical governance systems and the longer the hierarchical system is around the more the hierarchy is disconnected from the people/society that they’re governing. At one point, Labour was a party of the people but they haven’t been since the 1980s at the least.
What many feel is a deep desire to be sure that if we overturn the NACTs, that the leftie side then is seen majorly in Labour, plus the Greens, reflecting each Party’s electoral grunt, and not a Labour with a rhetoric of restraint doing the minimum for the people and country, and leaving the Greens to present the needed forward-looking policy and legislation.
What they also don’t seem to grasp is that for every author writing about Labour, there many more commenters. And for every commenter there are many more readers. And for every author, commenter, reader, there are many more people in the real world, and elsewhere online, who they engage in political discussions. Networking is not new concept, so I’m beginning to suspect this has nothing to do with ignorance of social media, and everything to do with bloody mindedness at having their authority challenged. Stupid either way.
What do Labour MPs think of blogs? Let’s ask Clare Curran …
“We are a credible and established force in the New Zealand political blogosphere.
Most Labour MPs blog . Most of us are active on facebook. Many of us are on Twitter. These are our real voices. We don’t always agree with each other, but we do share common values.
We’re focussed, we’re pretty tough and we have hearts. We also have ideas.
Most importantly we say what we think so we can talk to you; our readers, commenters, critics and supporters. Tell us what you’re thinking about us and don’t hold back (within reason).”
You guys are generalising again… Nobody reads Red Alert but all the comments are negative is a contradiction in terms. Please try not to do this. We don’t know how many people read Red Alert do we? It’s likely to be more than Nationals website.
Not all the comments on Red Alert are critical of Labour, in fact I would say they’re generally more critical of National. In my opinion, speaking in gross generalisations just weakens your arguments and makes you look foolish! It’s for your own benefit that I’m telling you this of course.
The problem as I see it is that will MP’s want to be actively involved with a group of commentators that actively use insults, accusations about other people intelligence etc etc.
Politically that can be problematic.
You need to clear up your own house before expecting others to clear theirs.
Indeed, but adults can usually control themselves.
As stated, if you think you can attract politicians to take The Standard seriously while you have moderators running around calling people names in the first instance – not as a result of ‘heightened emotion’ then by all means keep going.
I love this blog for the way it crushes the lies and daily coruption of the government.
What side does Labour want to go with. The people and workers that express their views here, or th Establishment (which just happens to be the most corrupt and morally bankrupt government in New Zealand’s, and arguably the western world’s history)
I hate to agree with you TC (don’t do that too often eh!), but you have a point. If commentary is generally negative it will not be listened to, especially by those who it’s directed at. That’s why there’s a big difference between constructive and negative criticism.
However I don’t think Labours response towards The Standard was justified because of this dynamic, simply because politicians should know better. The onus is on politicians to change their ways in order to reduce negative criticism that is valid. Unless properly undertaken, the only response should be to change the system or themselves to fix the problems people highlight.
There’s currently lots of problems out there, and good commentary is about identifying them. In this way the blogosphere can be highly beneficial to a government, if only they bothered to listen.
The only abuse I’ve got on this site is from righties not lefties
Hilarious! The only abuse I have got is from those who call themselves Lefties (you prominent among them!) 😀
I have been told I am a rightist, which is simply absurd. Oh I am also a Creationist (wrong!), a climate change denier (wrong), and a hater of women (bizarrely wrong) oh, and I almost forgot, a racist. (Deeply, evilly offensive, but then attacking the Asians I have defended, is okay with the left.)
That’s not entirely true, though, is it? Be honest…
I would not have thought that the Standard was the appropriate place to express your foibles! 😀
(I recommend Dawkins.net, or similar, or for New Zealanders, as they’re more at home in the USA, American Atheists… ).
I’ve been there. The depressive content was immediately fixed by inadvertently (or was it subconscious rebalancing?) getting myself into what my brain percieved as a live or die situation, accepting the hopelessness but going through the motions anyway, then something else emerged, shorting out whatever circuits were stuck in the loop.
Clearly this event was consciously unintentional and drastic therapy that I cannot recommend to others to simulate. It’s just interesting how the brain works and that the article says the dog trials don’t or can’t account for human variation.
The “therapy” also began a wider and more extensive series of psychological domino effects that had to be dealt with inside the same kind of environment that the intial problem began under, so yes, no easy answers/silver bullet. Initial review of what made it work was being in an environment that could not be controlled, but was not inherently hostile, in which the participant was competently familiar with certain laws of likelihood, cause and effect, making the brain as comfortable as possible – doing, reacting, planning, without conscious thinking to (perhaps) maximise the potential for subconscious rebalance to begin. However, we don’t know how long “it” had been planning this strategic intervention.
redfed
No worries mate. There are some jobs going in a hardware store in some NZ town and they want meat workers somewhere down the country. Poorer Benefit says so.
You’ve struck gold…. Social Development Minister announces “free cattle car transport” to any beneficiary willing to relocate their family to some NZ town where a job might be going.
Own packed lunch and seating required, one way only.
There is always something interesting happening in the world. As commenters were talking about the naughty generals I heard that adultery is a misdemeanour under USA military law. I find it hard to understand the precious idea that the USA holds about what should be a private matter. It is a pity that states transfer their attention to controlling the personal, rather than the use of power and money dealings.
There is an interesting thing happening in the UK with Starbucks. They appear to be doing something that is common with international franchises, extracting inflated royalties to maximise what they can withdraw from the country. Returns go into a trust or something happens,. then to somewhere in the Netherlands, then to the Bahamas or one of those tax havens, and it can’t be brought into the USA because they would at last have to pay tax on it – I think 30%. If you want more than this garbled info it was on radionz this morning sometime. The amount being looked at is in the billions of tax otherwise due.
“It’s time for NZ Judges to be held accountable to the LAW – starting with Chief High Court Judge Winkelmann.
Unbelievably, in New Zealand, ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’, (according to Transparency International’s 2011 Corruption Perception Index http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ ) our Judges are effectively ‘out of control’, and operate in ways that are neither transparent, nor accountable”, says ‘anti-corruption campaigner’ Penny Bright.
“There is no enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Judges; no ‘Register of Pecuniary Interests’ for NZ Judges and Court proceedings are often not recorded. How can a ‘court of record’ – not keep a record? How can ‘justice be done and be seen to be done’ – when there is no record in Court of WHAT was done?”
Tomorrow, Thursday 15 November 2012, will be a protest outside the Supreme Court in Wellington, from 9am – 10am and 1pm – 2pm.
Here, an unprecedented and historic Court case is being held.
For the first time in the history of the world – a ‘third party’ publisher is facing six weeks jail for ‘contempt of Court’ for publishing a suppressed judicial decision.
This third party’ publisher, is arguably NZ’s foremost judicial ‘Public Watchdog / ‘whistle-blower’ Vince Siemer, who exposes the lack of judicial transparency and accountability through his website – http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz
Vince Siemer is facing six weeks jail for ‘contempt of court’ for publishing Chief High Court Judge Helen Winkelmann’s decision, that the Urewera defendants were not entitled to trial by jury – a decision which she then suppressed – so that the public were not allowed to know.
“On what lawful basis can a NZ Judge suppress a decision or the reasons for that decision?” asks Ms Bright.
“This is the basis of the Appeal which will be heard in the NZ Supreme Court, Thursday 15 November 2012. (SC 37 – 2012). ”
Vince Siemer is being defended by prominent human rights lawyer Tony Ellis.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a New Zealand Herald article by David Fisher, dated 27 October 2012 – “Judges respond to critics”
– Chief High Court Judge, Justice Helen Winkelmann had this to say:
“The requirements that judges work in public and that they provide reasons for their decisions provides the best means of accountability. Their decisions can be, and are, the subject of public comment and criticism. Their decisions can be reviewed or appealed. These are the primary means by which judges are held accountable for their decisions.”
Judges, she says, “are not subject to personal direction; not from politicians, the Ministry or the public, and nor from other judges, such as the head of bench”. It leaves “judges … able to decide a case according to law, free from improper pressure or influence”.
……………………………
Justice Winkelmann warns against any public impulse to make judges’ decisions more “consistent” against a set of predetermined guidelines.
“Predictability is achieved through the application of the law. It is not possible or appropriate to measure predictability beyond that.
“If judges do make mistakes these can be corrected on appeal. That is a safeguard against error.”
“Can a Judge ‘just make it up’ and make a Court Order, which is not itself based upon the ‘Rule of Law,’ for the suppression of a Judgment?
We shall see…………….”
Signatures will also be collected for the following petition – which :
“Respectfully requests:
That the House urgently legislate to adopt an enforceable Code of Conduct for the New Zealand
Judiciary based upon the ‘Bangalore Principles for Judicial Conduct’ which are intended to establish
standards for the ethical conduct of judges, and include the following underpinning judicial values and
principles: independence; impartiality; integrity; propriety; equality; competency and diligence.”
(The ‘Bangalore Principles for Judicial Conduct’, are a ‘Code of Conduct’ made by Judges – for Judges, and are effectively a ‘best practice’ model that could be used here in New Zealand. http://www.ajs.org/ethics/pdfs/Bangalore_principles.pdf )
Well the head criminal defender is actually Sian Elias, so be sure aim some attention there too!
The judiciary is a rotten entity protecting themselves from the public knowing what is actually happening, that has been proven continually, and it goes on!
(As soon as Shearer mentioned Fran in his question, I winced. It was obvious Key was going to quote today’s Herald column back at him. Shearer’s inability to “see where it’s going” is remarkable – and constant. He’s got no antennae at all).
David Shearer: Is not Fran O’Sullivan right on the unemployment statistics when she says “For Key to simply shrug his shoulders on this score doesn’t cut it. … We owe it to the young people who are yet to even get on the employment ladder to be less ostrich-like as a nation.”; when will he change track to grow jobs?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Three things. Firstly, when it comes to young people, the Government is engaged in a number of activities to support young people, and that includes things like the 90-day probation period and the youth minimum wage, which certainly help make them more attractive in the workforce. Secondly, making sure their educational skills are better is critically important, and we know that that was something that the Labour Government did not care about. Making sure that we have a number of programmes for them is critically important. We have been doing that, whether it is through the Youth Guarantee or whatever it might be. Thirdly, we know the Labour Party is not to be believed when it comes to youth unemployment, because in the weekend Megan Woods was out there telling people that a quarter of all young people were unemployed. That is factually incorrect. And the fourth thing I would say is that I do not know whether the member saw—because he wants to quote Fran O’Sullivan—The Standard yesterday afternoon, but on The Standard yesterday afternoon it said that if Fran O’Sullivan comes out and endorses David Shearer, it will be the kiss of death. Well, guess what was in the New Zealand Herald this morning!
In Parliament today, Paula Bennett described unemployment numbers to be ‘Bouncy. Like me.’
Bouncy is a fun word isn’t it folks? It conjures up bouncy castles, bouncy trampolines, bouncy balls.
I would suggest however that Bennett is as far away from the fun sense of bouncy as humanly possible. Instead of answering the hard questions about her draconian beneficiary bashing crucifixion of the poor, Paula has constantly used infantile answers to try and push aside any real scrutiny of her policies.
What an insult to those who are unemployed, to refer to their plight as “bouncy”!
Sorry Karol, but I just got this Image of a certain fat ass bouncing around parliament. Not good first thing in the Ante Meridian. My Imagination is sabotaging me.
CPAG has received figures from Work and Income NZ under the Official Information Act which give a snapshot of the situation as at the end of August 2012. The figures show at that time 377 people with dependent children had had benefits reduced by 50%. The majority of those (234) were sole-parents receiving the DPB. In 84 cases, the youngest child in the family was younger than five. In 63 cases, the reduction had lasted over four weeks.
Will this government then be booked for manslaughter as it should be?
yes muzza and The Jackal; once “power” feels threatened, up goes the ante.
on a sunnier note,
many people in China still desire to become one of the more than 82M Communist Party members, through good grades, attitudes and not smoking cigarettes according to one recent successful admission, however, there are more Christians in China than there are Communist Party members; as an aside, in one “successful” town / city stood a 1 Tonne solid gold cow statue ( I will always remember the Chinese art dealer in Hong Kong saying “no limit” to how much a price a “something” might attract under mercantile / market conditions).
Yeah but throwing out on the street or starving 84 kids under the age of 5 years is less important than retaining support amongst the belligerent stupid part of the electorate.
Even skilled workers are being dumped on by this government. A bright women spoke up this morning about how she has not been paid as a part-time school office worker since August I think. Also another in the office. Novopay can’t cope.
She has had to borrow at a rate of 20% to pay the bills. She eats sometimes at friends’ houses. Family and friends give her handouts to keep her going.
This is the clever society that a ‘wise, knowledgable, super-effective, efficient’ NACT bunch always portrayed themselves as. Hah! Bet the wealthy old b.stards and b..ches still think that NACT is the tops, if they haven’t lost their money in the various financial crashes and leaky homes savings wipeouts. And even then if they did suffer, they might never bring themselves to vote Labour, ‘that’s so lower class, we don’t feel we can support them’.
Our country is being ruined while the professional classes, top management and well-organised tradesmen treat themselves and try to avoid tax.
The funny thing about Novopay is that it’s almost an exact repeat of the balls-up in the early 1990s when I believe it was the Wellington Board of Education computerised their pay system. Poor systems design resulted in a costly kerfuffle where people waited months on end to get their pay.
It’s funny, because the WBE case is literally a case study covered in 100-level IT courses. An 18y.o. fresher knows that mashing a system onto the client (rather than designing a system around the needs of the client) is a fast track to an all-round cockup.
The fact that there was nobody in MinEd who remembered that debacle is another reason why culling “back room boorowkrats” is a dumb idea – you lose the institutional memory of the person in the corner who quietly does their job, but more importantly has faced the same pitfalls before. “Central computerisation of pay” should have rung alarm bells as to what went wrong last time.
The United Arab Emirates set stricter Internet monitoring and enforcement codes on Tuesday that include giving authorities wider leeway to crack down on Web activists for offences such as mocking the country’s rulers or calling for demonstrations.
The measures are another sign of tougher cyber-policing efforts by Western-backed leaders across the Gulf amid growing concerns over perceived political or security threats since the Arab Spring uprisings.
Across the Gulf, other authorities have stepped up prosecutions against online activists and others. Earlier this month, a Bahraini man was sentenced to six months in prison on charges of insulting the Gulf nation’s king in Twitter posts. In September, a journalist-blogger in Oman received a one-year prison term for alleged anti-government writings.
Oh look, this is what you get when you try to “fight for your freedoms”, and even when you don’t – Yeah lets lock it down before they get rowdy, which is great for that bastian of freedom, Bahrain! Coming to NZ sometime soon, I would expect!
The Arab Spring – Working out great for ……the ruling classes and war mongers!
Music has always been the voice of the people and Home Brew Crew, like many artists before them, are simply expressing what many young New Zealanders believe.
[…]
There is no question that funding allocation should be made in an unbiased way to ensure growth in productive areas. Inhibiting potential growth just because of political opinion is quite frankly nuts!
Stuff is saying that Mallard and Little apologized for implying Collins leaked the information and it sounds like no money exchanged hands. A good time was had by the lawyers!
More to the point, 2 senior Labour MPs were in Auckland today, in court for no good reason. It’s not the biggest story around, but it’s all part of the drip-drip opportunity cost. Wasting time and being irrelevant to the rest of us.
If they were in court on our behalf … that would be very different. But then they’d be different people.
The more likely scenario is that information painting Collins in a bad light would have been divulged during legal proceedings. To determine if there was a case to answer, the judge would need to determine if what Mallard and Little said was true or false by looking into the validity of their claims. That would likely mean yet another investigation into a National MP, because without it a determination of defamation couldn’t be given.
Under the law, any evidence unearthed would have to be shared with Mallard and Little, who would likely make it public knowledge to ensure their comments were vindicated, and Collins was publicly humiliated. She would likely need to resign, which in my opinion is the right thing to do in cases of Ministers leaking the private information of New Zealand citizens.
If there was any truth to what they said, then clearly Collins would want it to go away. It appears to me that all her initial bluster and threats of court action was an attempt to take the focus off the fact that the leaked information could only have come from a limited number of sources, and most of the evidence pointed directly at her.
It’s a classic political play to create a diversion and then let the initial controversy slowly fade from the publics awareness, and as usual nobody will be held to account for the initial wrongdoing. This pisses me off, because whoever actually leaked the confidential information in an attempt to discredit and defame a whistle blower, will not be held to account.
It’s not about what the Labour MPs should have done (because they weren’t the ones bringing the court action), it’s about what they will do now to ensure justice and accountability. It was Collins who was making the legal claim, and it was her decision to not pursue that claim because of potential ramifications on the National party, and her position within it.
If Collins leaked (I have no idea who did, nor do you) then it’s actually the duty of Mallard and Little to stand by their claim. They should have the courage to expose a liar. They could have repeated it at any time, under Parliamentary privilege.
They haven’t.
Nevertheless, Ministers should not be suing political opponents for defamation, and “qualified privilege” would be the likely defence. Nobody comes out of this well.
I have no idea who leaked the information? Don’t be an idiot gobsmacked.
We know that the leaked information could have only come from a limited number of people, one of these people is Judith Collins. A trial would have likely revealed exactly who had leaked the information, and only one person had control of whether it went ahead or not.
Claiming that Little and Mallard repeating their claims would have made them more valid or ensured the leaker was revealed is a bit silly. Of course they’re not vindicated, but this doesn’t mean their claims were incorrect.
Only an investigation into the matter can do that, and the decision as to whether there is one is Nationals. I’m picking they won’t bother, for reasons only a truly deluded right wing fool would fail to observe.
Interestingly there were separate investigations undertaken by the auditor general and the privacy commissioner into circumstances surrounding the leaks, but neither looked specifically into who exactly leaked the Michelle Boag letter about Bronwyn Pullar to the media.
The questions remain: Who exactly was it that leaked Bronwyn Pullar’s information?
The report by Auditor General (PDF) Lyn Provost was mainly concerned with whether Ms Pullar gained any advantage in the way her claim was treated. Here’s the only reference to Judith Collins:
On 14 March 2012, ACC briefed its Minister (Hon Judith Collins) about the breach of privacy. On 16 March, ACC gave the Minister a written briefing on the privacy breach and on a meeting on 1 December 2011 at which the claimant had disclosed the breach to two ACC senior managers.
This doesn’t clear up the matter of whether Judith Collins was involved in leaking a New Zealand citizens private information though. I’m not sure about the Investigation by the Privacy Commissioner, as I cannot find a copy online.
I recall that there were complaints by opposition MPs that the investigations focus was too narrow. In other words they weren’t going to look into the specific leak we’re talking about.
You should be stoked gs, coz that’s pretty much what they did today.
You seem to think that the timing would have been better when Collins was demanding apologies and acting all tough.
I’m not sure that backing down at that point would have have looked very good at all (and it would have to have been a substantial back down rather than than the heavily parsed waffle the ‘regret’ language is).
And I’m sure as shit that it wouldn’t have stopped the story; the story would have been that Mallard and Little had backed down in the face of threats of a law suit. the coverage would have made Shearer’s missing tape look like a love in, and Collins would have been on tape every night saying whatever the hell she liked.
I’m as much an unfan of the Labour leadership as you are, but sit and think a spell, mkay?
This obviously needs to be done to all parliamentary speeches and questions:
The Gunning-Fog index is a commonly used algorithm to determine the readability of English writing. (Details on the wiki page here.) I wrote a perl script that reads in Hansard transcripts from Question Time and looks for sentences that score an 18 on Gunning-Fog, which ranks as incomprehensible, and then replaced that sentence with the word AAARRGGGGGH! Here’s how Hekia Parata’s most recent oral question plays out.
Suffice to say, Hekia Parata failed to make any sense.
Is Hekia Parata deliberately obtuse or is she genuinely unable to answer questions?
Did you drive to work?
The complexion of the classroom is being consulted and will in due course be parent understandings able to improve children who are failing and AAARRGGGGGGH!
WTF The complexion (what she going to hand out acne cream?) And how do you consult with acne, and will (Who wrote this ? (It looks like something that comes from an overseas scam.)) improve the children’s Acne?
Ahhh I get it now. Extra Acne cream for the children who are failing, the overseas stuff is better, as it helps the parents understand why their children slip through the cracks so easily.
A few points:
Remit 1: The future of privatised state assets
Looks like they are finally going to decide whether or not to put their money where their mouth is
Remit 5: Gender quotas on company boards
Agree in principle, but 50% by legislation!!! What if there is an uneven number of people on a board? What if there is a 50/50 split on a board and a male steps down, would it be descrimination to not accept a female application?
Remit 10: Lowering the voting age, Civics
Seriously? Why don’t we help kids learn the current curriculum before we start opening ourselves up to politically motivated teaching in schools!
Remit 11: Gender quota for the House of Representatives
What happened to democracy! So if 80% of elected representitives are males, we then have to say the public got it wrong and replace some (how is that decided) with females?
Remit 12: A New Zealand republic
Didn’t see this one coming, what happened to talk of a referendum? Bugger it, we’ll just campaign on it and if we can cobble together a government we’ll push it through, we have a mandate (remember those arguements?)
Remit 26: Mining and extractive industries
a)phasing out all coal mining – weren’t they just in Greytown protesting against coal mine closures?
c)Labour apply the precautionary principle to the practice of hydraulic fracturing where there is potential for the contamination of groundwater and triggering local seismic events and ban fracking in New Zealand. – Lol, tinfoil hat much? Have they ever read a study into current hydraulic fracking methods? Is there any report EVER alluding to fracking causing local seismic events (peer reviewed obviously)?
Remit 42: Ports of Auckland
Umm, they want a policy that an individual company will follow existing policy? Isn’t that already the law?
Remit 10: Lowering the voting age, Civics
Seriously? Why don’t we help kids learn the current curriculum before we start opening ourselves up to politically motivated teaching in schools!
They already learn the current curriculum, they can do civics as well…it’d be a lot more useful than some of the stuff they get taught.
Remit 11: Gender quota for the House of Representatives
What happened to democracy!
We’re finally coming to the conclusion that democracy is not fair and only favours those with power & status, so they’re trying to fix the myth of democracy…going for equity instead.
Yeah, Labour have this mad idea of opposing the effects of racism. Kinda like the opposition to sexism in Remit 11. Think of it as opposing racism and sexism, not creating racism and sexism…or better yet, think of it as not being a fuckwit
We’re finally coming to the conclusion that democracy is not fair and only favours those with power & status, so they’re trying to fix the myth of democracy…going for equity instead.
true…I’m all for democracy when when we have a more equitable society, but until then I’m happy for a loss of democracy to address historical inequalities
We open this door and we’ll fuck ourselves. One person, one vote, and the results of each contest are determined by the results of the vote. Maximum proportionality, no excuses.
CV, I have written this day into my diary, I thought by now you would automatically dismiss anything I said out of hand. Good to see there is at least some common ground here!
Remit 47: Eliminating inequalities
THAT Labour in Government takes action to eradicate the consequences of poverty to all children and specifically tamariki by:
a) supporting funding for food in schools programmes in all decile 1-3 schools; and
b) supporting the eradication of rheumatic fever and other preventable illnesses through funding for swabbing and primary health care intervention in all decile 1-3 schools.
So by saying Decile 1-3 schools mainly consist of Maori children or “specifically tamariki” as they put it, that is opposing racism? Sounds like blatant racial profiling which is a form of racism to me.
“yeah, its opposing racism…why else are more Maori in lower decile schools? If its not the result of racism, what is it?”
That is a generalisation that I find racist. There are children of many different ethnic backgrounds in lower decile schools, why single out just Maori children? If they are over represented in lower decile schools, then why not speak to the local Iwi and try to find out why, find common themes and work to remedy these, start working to help these families out of the situation they are in at a local level. I am sure that if you look at decile 1-3 South Island schools you will find a completely different mix of ethnicities than in Auckland decile 1-3 schools for example.
My point is, this potential policy is a racially based, and while I agree on the premis, singling out a race like this isn’t helpful to public perception (and therefore race relations).
Maori are disproportionately represented in lower decile schools. Even schools in those areas that have different demographic proportions. It is simply a statement of fact to state that helping children in ower decile schools will help many Maori.
However, targeting services at Maori is ethnically based by definition (e.g. Whanau Ora) – but then so is affirmative action. The question is whether this provides an advantage, or is a more effective way of providing the same services, or simply addresses inequalities that have lasted for generations. But that’s a seperate issue. The remit is economically based.
Why?…the numbers are there…too many Maori kids in lower decile. Why does this happen if not because of racism?..It has to be because of racism, doesn’t it
“There are children of many different ethnic backgrounds in lower decile schools, why single out just Maori children?”
Because of the historical injustices, Maori issues are different to other issues. Its biculturalism. If you mean Pacific Islanders – that already happens, there are a lot of programmes and policies for many groups of people.
“I am sure that if you look at decile 1-3 South Island schools you will find a completely different mix of ethnicities than in Auckland decile 1-3 schools for example.”
Yeah, because there’s vastly different ethnic difference between the North and South Islands.
“My point is, this potential policy is a racially based, and while I agree on the premis, singling out a race like this isn’t helpful to public perception (and therefore race relations).”
I’ve got no problem with it…if we’ve screwed over one cohort of the population then I am all for sorting it out. I think ‘perception’ only becomes a concern when the issue gets framed the way you are framing it. If we don’t accept the historical and institutional racism is still a very big problem in NZ, then yes, perception is a problem. But to be fair, if we don’t accept the historical and institutional racism is still a very big problem in NZ, then our race relations are a joke, and by taking the individual responsibility route (and claiming ‘we’re all Kiwi’s’) we are suggesting all sorts of racist things.
It would be racist if it were targeting only Maori children in decile 1-3 schools. As it is worded it is policy aimed at all children in decile 1-3 schools, which by the way, happen to have a disproportionate number of Maori children.
I’m trying hard to see your problem with that Bob. (except that it’s not a universal benefit)
So by saying Decile 1-3 schools mainly consist of Maori children or “specifically tamariki” as they put it, that is opposing racism? Sounds like blatant racial profiling which is a form of racism to me.
It’s also pretty absurd!
Last night, listening to Clive, they had an item about school children making Camilla a carrot cake, and every child they interviewed was Maori (I didn’t hear the name of the school, or its decile level.) But it made me remember a bizarre incident that took place in 1992. My son attended Myers Kindy in Queen St, and I attended with him, as we’d only just come from Welly and he was settling in. For some reason that I don’t remember, an outside broadcast cast crew from TV3 had come to film at Myers Kindy. The producer or reporter, I don’t remember which now, spent literal hours (which upset the kids and the teachers) arranging them on the mat for mat time, so that all the ‘Maori’ kids were up the front. (She was rather upset that none of the brown kids were actually Maori, but two Islanders, an Indian and a middle eastern boy).
Then, when she had them all arranged to her satisfaction, and started her piece to camera, the Island girl got up, ran to the back where my blue-eyed son sat, and hauled him up the room to sit by her. As the patience of the teachers was exhausted, she had to go with that. We watched that night, and saw her claiming that Myers kindy was an ‘inner city kindergarten, attended by poor children’ (hilarious if you actually knew the place *) and saw the camera focused very tightly on the Island kids and my son who stuck out like a meerkat amongst dolphins!
Since then, I have been very sceptical indeed about TV news items showing the demographic of a particular school.
* Myers kindy is in upper Queen Street, and was attended by kids whose parents worked in the CBD, or who lived in the area, and was therefore extremely mixed as to ethnicity and SES. Numerically speaking, the dominant nationality was French, thanks to one New Zealand mother married to a Frenchman, who brought their friends along).
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The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them. The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet HoekMembers of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannicalTerrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzIf tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
This is the third of the synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016). The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Unlike the humble cup of coffee and t-shirt that we looked at in ...
Tom MooreTraditionally a food source and cutting tool, freshwater mussels/kākahi are now widely valued as water filters that help clean our waterbodies and maintain ecosystem health throughout Aotearoa. The improvement they provide in water quality can make it easier for other animals to live in streams and rivers, as ...
And to think he gave all the potential goodwill away with that moronic, cult-like statement (repeated ad nauseam by many National hardliners) that Key is quite simply “the greatest PM we ever had”…Installation complete: this was nothing ...
The chairman of the Upper North Island Supply Chain Strategy (UNISCS) working group, Wayne Brown, has hit back at critics of his group’s recommendations to relocate the Ports of Auckland cargo operations to Whangarei’s deepwater port of Northport. The working group's recommendation to close Auckland waterfront to all but cruise ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
"Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First has listened to calls to recognise paramedics as registered health professionals under the Health Practitioners’ Competence Assurance Act (the Act).Today, the Coalition Government announced plans for paramedics to be registered as health practitioners under the Act, and the establishment of a ...
We began the week by commemorating the New Zealand Wars and celebrating a major increase in the number of teachers. Then, we were busy supporting offenders into work and getting our rail back on track after years of underinvestment. And that's just the start! ...
In October I was sworn in as the Mayor of Lower Hutt.It’s the privilege of my life to serve Hutt people as their Mayor. There is something really special to be able to serve the community where I was raised, and where I live. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister for Racing Racing Minister Winston Peters met with Korea Racing Authority Chairperson Nak Soon Kim in Seoul today to discuss closer cooperation between the New Zealand and Korean horse racing industries. As part of the visit to the Seoul Racecourse, Mr Peters witnessed ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10 million to establish Otago as the centre of New Zealand’s creative digital industry over the next ten years, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “The initiative will bring us closer to the vision of ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)’s skills and employment programme will help young Otago people into long-term forestry careers, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. Te Ara Mahi will invest $63,000 in the 2020 school year to support eight 17 and 18 ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) will support local plans to revitalise and stimulate economic development opportunities in Otago, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The four Regional Economic Development Ministers have approved an in-principle investment of $19.9 million towards the region’s ...
Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First is pleased to have received the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) report on the Coalition Government’s Mycoplasma bovis eradication efforts, which shows significant progress in the fight against the disease. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, says the report’s findings ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development Hon David Parker, Minister for Trade and Export Growth The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing to support economic growth opportunities for Otago’s engineering and manufacturing sectors, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Trade and Export Minister David Parker announced today. Almost $20 million ...
Eleven men from a pilot forestry training programme for prisoners in Northland now have full time jobs or job offers upon release, Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis and Forestry Minister Shane Jones announced today. The ‘release to work’ programme was a collaboration between Te Uru Rākau and the Department of Corrections, ...
Minister of State Services Chris Hipkins today introduced into Parliament a Bill that will make it easier for the public service to tackle the biggest challenges facing Governments. The Bill represents the most significant change in the public service in 30 years. The State Sector Act 1988 will be repealed ...
The families of more than 416,000 students will be better off next year as their schools have signed up to the Government’s donations scheme, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. The scheme will see almost $62.5 million in additional Government funding go to schools nationwide next year. “I’m really pleased ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced further support as the Government of Samoa responds to a serious measles outbreak. “New Zealand will deploy a further 18 vaccination nurses, bringing the total to 30 working in Samoa over the next four weeks,” Mr Peters said. “A New Zealand Medical Assistance ...
Fa’atalofa atu, malo e lelei, Kia ora koutou katoa Thank you to the Child Poverty Action Group for asking me to be here today to provide an update on some of the things that have been happening across my the social development portfolio. Can I firstly acknowledge the vast ...
***Please check against delivery*** Good morning everyone. It is a pleasure to be with you this morning to open this year’s New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing Conference and AGM. Firstly, thank you Dr Alan Jackson, NZTR Chair for your introduction. And let us acknowledge also: The NZTR Board; Dean McKenzie, Chair ...
The Government has delivered on its promise to the over one million New Zealanders who now rent to make it fairer and more secure, Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Kris Faafoi has announced today. Both renters and landlords will benefit from the suite of practical changes to the Residential ...
A marine conservation milestone - the 20th anniversary of the establishment of Te Tapuwae o Rongokako Marine Reserve - is being celebrated today at a community event in Tairāwhiti/East Coast attended by the Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “The creation of this marine reserve in November 1999 was a game ...
The Government is asking the food industry to step up work to tackle obesity including reducing sugar, fat and salt in their products, better information for consumers, and tighter restrictions on advertising to children. Health Minister David Clark and Food Safety Minister Damien O’Connor have responded to a ...
ew, modern emergency department and outpatient facilities at Queenstown’s Lakes District Hospital mean better emergency care for the growing tourist mecca’s visitors and locals, says Health Minister David Clark. Today Dr Clark officially opened the hospital’s redeveloped Emergency Department and Outpatient facilities. The new facilities include: • An extended Emergency Department ...
Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter says today’s release of sexual and reproductive health data reinforces the significance of the Government’s commitment to providing free or very low-cost contraception. The Ministry of Health today published statistics from the Ministry of Health’s 2014/15 Health Survey. “It is important people can make ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced that at the request of the Samoan Government, New Zealand will be providing further support to Samoa as it faces a worsening measles outbreak. “In response to a request from the people of Samoa, New Zealand is providing 3000 measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) ...
“The new Disability Action Plan 2019–2023 moves us towards the inclusive and accessible New Zealand that this government has committed to,” Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “The Action Plan was designed by disabled people, their family and supporters, the disability sector and government agencies. It will ensure ...
Third Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting 14 November 2019 Joint Statement 1. Defence Ministers Ron Mark and Dr Ng Eng Hen today conducted their third annual Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Singapore. 2. Building on the Enhanced Partnership signed between both countries in May this year, this annual meeting ...
A Bill to improve the court system’s response to sexual violence has passed its first reading in Parliament today. Justice Minister Andrew Little says the Sexual Violence Legislation Bill will reduce the trauma sexual violence complainants experience in court, while maintaining defendants’ fundamental rights and making sure the trial process ...
Streamlined payment practices are a step closer for Kiwi businesses with the formal launch of New Zealand’s e-Invoicing framework. Small Business Minister Stuart Nash says the government has now established the structure to enable automated and direct data exchange between the accounting systems of buyers and sellers. “The move to ...
Another 51 quarantine officers and four new biosecurity detector dog teams will help protect New Zealand from invasive pests and diseases this summer, says Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor. “The Government is delivering on its commitment to strengthen New Zealand’s biosecurity system and support our valuable primary sector “New Zealand’s flora, fauna ...
A new report has found New Zealand’s space sector contributed $1.69 billion to the economy in the last financial year and employs 12,000 people, Minister for Economic Development Phil Twyford announced today. The report by Deloitte was commissioned by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and shows New Zealand ...
Judge Coral Shaw has been appointed as the new Chair of the Royal Commission into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions, Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin announced today. "Judge Shaw, who is currently one of the inquiry commissioners, is extremely well qualified for the ...
The Government has confirmed its third major mental health facility upgrade since the Budget, this time at Palmerston North Hospital. The Prime Minister and Health Minister today visited MidCentral DHB to announce that $30 million has been allocated to upgrade its acute mental health facility. It follows earlier announcements in ...
The roll out of the National Bowel Screening Programme has reached the halfway mark, with 10 out of 20 District Health Boards now part of the programme. MidCentral DHB, which covers Palmerston North, Manawatu and surrounding districts, this week became the latest to DHB to offer free bowel screening to ...
The Government welcomes PHARMAC’s decision to fund a vaccine to protect young people from meningococcal disease from 1 December this year. “Meningococcal disease is a serious threat which people at higher risk should be protected from,” says Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter. “The combined pharmaceutical budget was increased by ...
Groups involved with innovative fisheries research projects are encouraged to apply for government support in the latest funding round from the Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures programme. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash says the SFF Futures funding is designed to be flexible enough to support small or large projects across a ...
The Government has fixed an issue affecting how Immigration New Zealand has processed visa applications for culturally arranged marriages, which will now see a consistent process applied which ensures people with legitimate arranged marriages can visit New Zealand while also preventing any rorting of the system. Earlier this year Immigration ...
The Royal Commission into the Attacks on Christchurch Mosques will report back on 30 April 2020 to give it more time to hear submissions and consider information, Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin announced today. The Royal Commission was originally scheduled to report back to Government by 10 December 2019. “There has ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Washington DC today to attend a ministerial meeting focused on defeating ISIS, and to continue pursuing New Zealand’s trade opportunities. Mr Peters will participate in a meeting of Foreign and Defence Ministers from key countries contributing to the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS. ...
The recently crowned Bird of the Year, the hoiho/yellow eyed penguin, is getting a much needed helping hand alongside more than 168 other community conservation projects announced Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage today. 168 community conservation projects throughout New Zealand are benefiting from $8 million in government grants, including $500,000 ...
Controls on assault rifles and semi-automatic firearms are to be broadened to include some types of pistols, under changes to a bill currently making its way through Parliament. Police Minister Stuart Nash has tabled a Supplementary Order Paper to the Arms Legislation Bill, which is currently before a Select Committee ...
Minister of Defence Ron Mark will travel to Singapore today to conduct a counterpart visit and to co-chair the third annual Singapore-New Zealand Defence Ministers’ Meeting with his counterpart, Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen. “Singapore is one of our most important defence partners in the region, and our ...
Nelson’s Salisbury School is to be rebuilt, creating a modern and suitable learning environment for students at the residential special school, Education Minister Chris Hipkins and Associate Education Minister Tracey Martin announced today. The school for girls aged 8-15, in Richmond, was earmarked for closure by National until the process ...
The panel undertaking a comprehensive review of the Resource Management Act has identified the main issues to be addressed and options for reform and is calling for feedback to inform its final report. In July the Government announced the comprehensive review of the resource management system, including the RMA - ...
An important safety valve has been added to New Zealand’s criminal justice system with the third reading of the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill today. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) will investigate claimed miscarriages of justice. “We’ve seen how our justice system can very occasionally get things spectacularly wrong, ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters welcomes the tabling of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) 2019 Annual Report in Parliament today. He says the 2019 Annual Report marks the point when New Zealand’s racing industry’s decline was arrested and a turnaround started. RITA’s 2019 Annual Report recorded an industry net profit ...
The New Zealand Government is today sending 21 firefighters to help fight the ongoing catastrophic Australian bushfires. “The fires in Australia are in some of the toughest, most challenging conditions ever,” says Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin. “As of yesterday morning, there were 100 active bushfire-related incidents across Queensland and ...
More frontline support for schools through a new education agency, as part of a redesigned Ministry of Education More support for principals and school boards including through a new centre of leadership and local leadership advisor roles New independent disputes panels for parents and students Management of school property ...
The Government’s reform of the Tomorrow’s Schools system is a watershed moment in education and an opportunity to create meaningful change for ākonga Māori and their whānau, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis said today. “Last year through Kōrero Mātauranga | Education Conversation, Māori teachers, parents, ākonga, whānau, hapū and iwi ...
Infrastructure Minister is welcoming the first of many updated project pipelines from the newly established New Zealand Infrastructure Commission today. The New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, Te Waihanga, has released an expanded pipeline of major capital projects – another crucial step towards delivering better infrastructure outcomes. “The first iteration of the ...
Tougher gun laws designed to improve public safety through firearms prohibition orders are proposed in a new document released for public input. Police Minister Stuart Nash says firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) would give new powers to Police to ensure high-risk individuals come nowhere near firearms. “We have already prohibited the ...
Andy Coupe has been confirmed as TVNZ’s new Board Chair. “Mr Coupe has strong commercial and capital markets experience and TVNZ has benefited from his technical knowledge of business and finance, as well as his extensive governance experience,” the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Kris Faafoi said. Andy ...
Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter today officially opened a separated pathway, following the completion of the Kaiwharawhara Stream bridge, which will improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians along Hutt Road. The $6.8m Hutt Road project provides a separated path for cycling and pedestrians, the replacement of informal parking ...
Greenpeace protesters have covered Parliament lawn with replica coral this morning, calling on the Government to take urgent action on bottom trawling. ...
Chlöe Swarbrick’s “OK boomer” retort in Parliament has proved to be the spark that set alight a dry field of latent generational angst. The debate over the remark rolls on and on, revealing that generational warfare is a growing cleavage in New Zealand. Increasingly, political problems of housing, inequality, climate ...
Can the flagship Disney+ show The Mandalorian serve the Star Wars diehards at the same time as the casual viewer, asks Sam Brooks.A quick multiple-choice test to find out if The Mandalorian is for you or not.Q. Does the title The Mandalorian mean anything to you?A) No.B) Kind of? It’s definitely part of ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.NZ First Matt Shand (Stuff): NZ First Foundation dodging electoral rules? Records suggest breaches Matt ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is labelling the Government and Auckland Council cowards, for reportedly giving in to the thugs occupying privately owned Ihumātao and proposing to use taxpayer funds and Auckland Council to buy the land. Radio NZ is reporting ...
Auckland one of the worst cities in the world for public transport, road taxes according to new data; and substantial benefit hikes appear off the Government's agenda. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rochelle Einboden, Lecturer, The Susan Wakil School of Nursing and Midwifery, University of Sydney In Victoria, 35 young people aged 12-17 years ended their lives by suicide between 2007 and 2019 – all were entangled in the child protection system. This was ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Haslam, Professor of Psychology and ARC Laureate Fellow, The University of Queensland The ABC’s Australia Talks project aims to stimulate a conversation on a broad sweep of topics — from job security and sexual habits to national pride and personal finances. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pep Canadell, Chief research scientist, CSIRO Oceans and Atmosphere; and Executive Director, Global Carbon Project, CSIRO Nitrous oxide (N₂O) (more commonly known as laughing gas) is a powerful contributor to global warming. It is 265 times more effective at trapping heat in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hilary Hollingsworth, Principal Research Fellow, Australian Council for Educational Research Australian teachers are in the thick of producing end-of-year reports. In many schools, the report writing process begins several weeks – or even months – before reports are eventually released. This process ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. (attributed to Danish physicist Niels Bohr) The difficulty of making predictions has long been known, but the rise of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Smith, Professor of Archaeology, College of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences, Flinders University The Stuart Highway in the Northern Territory is dotted with around 300 termite mounds, dressed as people. They are reminiscent of giant, ochre coloured “snowmen” in their distinctly ...
Almost half a million dollars in political donations appear to have been hidden inside a secret slush fund controlled by a coterie of Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters’ trusted advisers. ...
Sources tell RNZ the Crown is considering loaning money to the council to buy the disputed land, with Fletcher seeking $40m - more than double what it paid in 2014. ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Christchurch stadium funding in the spotlight, more trouble for NZ First, and medical students caught in rort.Construction hasn’t even come close to starting on the new Christchurch stadium and the money is looking shaky. Stuff’s Michael Hayward reports a business case is ...
New rental reforms aren’t about shafting landlords, they’re about requesting that those who built an industry around housing accept that with industry, comes regulation, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell. ...
Severe storm surges will get bigger around parts of the South Island and smaller around the North Island as the climate changes, two studies have now predicted. ...
Bernard Hickey visited E-Go’s electric car factory in Aachen, Germany to find how it used a 5G network to flip car-making on its head, and how it’s an example of what Industry 4.0 could look like in New Zealand. ...
Were Fonterra’s Open Gates events a shallow PR stunt, or was there something deeper going on? Alex Braae went to Mangatawhiri to find out.This feature is made possible thanks to the Spinoff Members Fund. We need your help to make journalism that matters. For more information, click here.Walking into the Fonterra ...
It was meant to ‘draw a line under the whole episode’. So how did it turn into an unmitigated PR disaster, asks former Edelman executive David Brain.The thing about the Royal Family is that everything they do is PR really. I mean in the old sense of image and spin. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Clarke, Associate Professor, National Security College, Australian National University This past weekend, The New York Times’ China correspondents, Chris Buckley and Austin Ramzy, published an expose of over 400 internal Chinese government documents relating to Beijing’s mass detentions of Uighurs, Kazakhs ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Clarke, Associate Professor, National Security College, Australian National University This past weekend, The New York Times’ China correspondents, Chris Buckley and Austin Ramzy, published an expose of over 400 internal Chinese government documents relating to Beijing’s mass detentions of Uighurs, Kazakhs ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Janet Stanley, Associate professor/Principal Research Fellow, Melbourne Sustainable Society Institute, University of Melbourne It’s hard to comprehend why someone would deliberately light a bushfire. Yet this behaviour regularly occurs in Australia and other countries. We would go a long way to preventing ...
There are 540,000 dwellings in Auckland and 580,000 households. The result is misery no matter how you try to square things through tenancy regulation. ...
The PM says she's set a very clear expectation that the clearing of firing ranges in Afghanistan will be sped up, but says it's not possible to conclude NZ is responsible for civilian deaths. ...
A forestry company with close links to New Zealand First has revealed it applied for a $15 million loan from the Provincial Growth Fund, which is overseen by NZ First minister Shane Jones. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Former prime minister Paul Keating has launched a scathing attack on the Australian media for its coverage of China, denouncing “the nominally pious belchings of ‘do-gooder’ journalists” who live on leaks from security agencies. Keating ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vincent Ho, Senior Lecturer and clinical academic gastroenterologist, Western Sydney University A parasite is an organism that lives in or on an organism of another species. Three main classes of parasites can cause disease in humans: protozoa, helminths, and ectoparasites. Protozoa and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Lilburn, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Melbourne You’re driving down an unfamiliar street on a clear spring evening. You’ve been invited to a friend of a friend’s party, at a house you’ve never been to before. Tracking the street numbers, you ...
Crimestoppers New Zealand launched its updated website www.crimestoppers-nz.org today. As well as catering for traditional anonymous reports the site now supports mobile users and allows files and images to be attached. The changes support people of all ...
Prince Andrew has spoken for the first time in public about his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. What did he say to create such a media storm, and how did he get into this mess in the first place? First thing’s first: who is Prince Andrew? Prince Andrew, Duke ...
Sam Brooks interviews the three guest curators of the New Zealand Festival of Arts: Bret McKenzie, Laurie Anderson and Lemi Ponifasio.An Oscar-winning Conchord, the world’s most beloved multimedia artist, and a world-renowned director and choreographer with an attitude. Three weeks, three unique visions of what a festival can and should ...
Plans are being put in place to increase methyl bromide monitoring following a theoretical modelling report about how the log fumigant disperses into the environment after use. ...
It’s the most beautiful time of the year! Comedian Sera Devcich joins Emily Writes to share the joy and investigate the top 10 toys your ungrateful kids will want this Christmas.It’s November which means it’s officially time for your kids to start bugging you day in and day out about ...
Proposed changes to tenancy rights are trickle down, not transformational, change says the Manawatu Tenants’ Union (MTU). There are however improvements for renters, and these efforts must be commended according to the MTU. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Stokes, Associate Professor of Philosophy, Deakin University “To be dead,” wrote the 20th century French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre, “is to be a prey for the living.” Even Sartre, though, would have struggled to imagine casting James Dean in a movie 64 ...
The Good Citizen podcast focuses on the way good design – and good people – can change cities for the better. In this episode, Jeremy Hansen talks to architect Richard Goldie about his bold idea for a partially submerged stadium on Auckland’s waterfront, a project that’s now a finalist in ...
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Bomber Bradbury has posted on the stupidity of certain Labour MPs’ attack on the Standard and I must admit I side with Bomber. The MPs, including Shearer, would be better off seeking a guest post and hanging around to answer questions and join in the debate rather than slag off their critics. After all many of us are the pamphlet deliverers, billboard erectors and activists whose effect you just can’t buy unless you have very deep pockets.
They already know. Add it up.
When the collective voices who use The Standard (that I’m told is full of “meaningless opinion”), entered a high stakes game where it was known that the tendency of one of the participants – the MSM – was to pick up and control group identities for their own ends, they crossed a line that can’t be re-crossed just because the heat is on and it’s bit uncomfortable. The targets chosen, formally allies, aren’t going to pat you on the head and forget. The reality is that in the real world, when you challenge the hierarchy, you carry through or you get squashed beyond all recognition.
Whichever side of the line you sit, you are now identified as from “The Standard”. No amount of rationalisation or links to the “About” section from lprent will convince the MSM of anything that they’d rather make up to help their stories. We don’t control the MSM.
Fight for whatever constructive ends within the broader labour movement you represent.
Meaningless opinion, from a “rag-tag bunch of intellectual lightwieghts” has some pretty powerful meaning now, doesn’t it? Owning our words, in the spirit of responsible free speech, isn’t just an abstract context. Was the “revolution” really as far away as believed?
Uturn
Do you mean that we shouldn’t put forward our concerns and ideas freely because the MSM picks them up and screws them round before publishing something that is written to provide a good story rather than the truth? This would be require us to bow to self-censorship and truly result in a whispering campaign. And I don’t know how Labour Party matters can be discussed widely as well as they are in this blog as it is run at present.
If dissatisfaction and wish for change for better outcomes must be kept quiet because the lurkers from the sometimes mendacious media are listening then our present political system will continue towards theatre of no substantive value to we citizens, and probably develop into a true circus such as we see in the USA.
Prism, a person should say what they need to say, what needs to said, to suit the occasion. Question everything, even your own ideas. Doing so will attract consequences.
Uturn
I find your meaning obscure. Are you saying that we have meaningless opinion and just throw them like custard pies, into pollies faces? And where was a “rag-tag bunch of intellectual lightwieghts” referred to?
Ragtag bunch etc was a quote from a popular unsympathetic visitor to The Standard a few days ago.
Meaningless opinion etc was paraphrased from a comment from a regular sympathetic visitor to The Standard, last week, regarding an earlier consensus of value on this site.
De pace fidei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_of_Cusa
some logos
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/transl/cusa_p_of_f.html
One thing I have always noted with individuals from the MSM is that most are susceptible to reasoned directed criticism of whatever they wrote – even if it is written with passion. They tend not to be particularly stupid.
We have drawn some blood over the years from some of them when they have in the view of one or more of our authors walked over the line. Most of the time it is stated as being rejected or ignored. But if there is an argument in there that is valid (and with our authors there usually is), then you frequently see shifts in their writing to deal with it over time. Why? Because if someone thinks it and there are other opinions that bolster it with their observations, then many amongst their audience will as well.
In other words we are outside observers and critics of media, a role that is largely filled in NZ with just MediaWatch, throng, the BSA and the like and a few awards ceremonies.
For all of their irritation and moaning about the upstarts on the blogs, I get the feeling that they rather welcome blogs. We can and do say things that stir up the environment. They sure as hell read us. The IP’s show that quite clearly.
Those attacks show a Labour caucus that is so out of touch it shouldn’t even exist in the modern world.
It really didn’t help my growing conviction that the majority of the Labour caucus are absolute wankers and I’m getting heartily sick of all of them.
Sheesh! The Labour caucus can include it’s membership, so you’re insulting a large group of people there Blue. Perhaps the Labour bashing hord might like to take a deep breath and come back down to earth with some reasoned debate. Because with comments like that, it’s no wonder you’re being ignored.
Bloggers are voters too
In my opinion, the Labour party needs to embrace social media en masse. Look at the respect gained for Labour politicians who have actually made the effort to engage with the public on forums such as The Standard. Look at how effective the Obama campaign was through its use of social media. Look at how well the Greens utilize social media to reach people with similar beliefs. They clearly work with their activists, not against them, and that’s political strength money usually can’t buy…
Shearer’s office ought to have someone in charge of Social Media. This would not only involve monitoring of blogs or posting in twitter or facebook but actually maintaining contact with the blogs and doing such things as offering guest posts and responding to criticism. If it is good enough for Shearer, for instance, to appear in the Women’s Weekly why shouldn’t he appear occasionally in the Standard. I am certain that Cunliffe would do it better.
From the various MPs comments they do not seem to realise how the left wing works. It prefers robust debate and people being brave and fronting up and saying what they think. A clash of ideas is a good thing.
Two years ago at Congress the party had a session on social media in particular Red Alert led by Mallard which was actually quite good. The Parliamentary Party seems to have forgotten what it knew then even though blogs are far more important now than then.
And I agree with other comments made that Labour ought to be bringing the Standard into the loop quick fast. This us and them mentality is weird.
Quite right. As a regular commenter on the Standard I demand that the Labour caucus consults with me on a regular basis. As well as always being correct, my opinions matter, God damn it!
The only issue will be finding time for this meeting between Dungeons and Dragons club and masturbating furiously to specialist online porn.
[lprent: Sorry. That gave me an image of a big black haired monkey wanking at the sight of a orc and elf orgy. Is that you had in mind? What are you trying to say? puzzled ]
My point, lprent, is that who is “the Standard” when calls are made for Labour to consult with it.
Are we talking about the authors? are we tallking about you? or are we talking about the commenters, alot of whom are retarded onanists (I was using myself as an example). What the hell good does this do Labour, Surely if you want to “consult” you do it with your own members through traditional avenues rather than engage some stinky hippy who has a passing interest because they are “of the left”.
Actually I’d agree. I really don’t want to “be consulted”. I don’t have the time or really the interest in doing a politicians job. After all knowing the constituency and party is one of their basic duties.
Like you, I suspect that the simplest solution would be to open up clogged arteries of debate inside the NZLP and get it so that the likes of myself and Bill (at very different ends of the political spectrum) could do something constructive there.
But both of us in our varied ways have given up on that. Bill long ago because of the clamping down on ideological debate and me more recently because the caucus have about as much hope of organising an winning election campaign as any other flock of chickens. One of them will always try self-immolation by guillotine in an attempt to encourage a short-cut.
BTW: that last sentence was put in exclusively for your amusement.
my smile was the result of collateral entertainment. 🙂
I said nothing about consultation, just that the Caucus ought to be very respectful of the Standard.
well, I still chuckle at the employment of “Shoplifters of The World Unite”
i think that The Standard is bloody good humour and satire amidst some serious issues
Let the MPs guest post here and then engage with the punters. Authors can then write their own posts in response (kind of like what has happened this week). TS mods might be kind enough to mod a bit harder, and Labour (or the Greens or whoever) would need to skill themselves in internet debate and familiarise themselves with the culture of TS (and select which MPs posted here very carefully).
That could happen but we’d have to be careful about the timings. Such posts would obviously be a pretty high target for trolls and they do require higher moderation levels to act as troll intimidation.
We did that for the leadership posts and it was a considerable strain on my time and probably the other moderators. The posts would turn up whenever. Posting them as soon as possible and in a timely fashion meant that it cut significantly into our time.
I’d go for weekends when it is easier for at least me to allocate time to moderate.
The other problem with MP’s posting is that almost without exception, they write pretty boring posts.
Fair enough. Labour would need to be pretty committed to doing it well from their end too, and to be honest I can’t imagine that at the moment.
Maybe you could trial it with with the Greens 😛
Have you read the posts at frogblog recently? Try the feed. Interesting material done dully.
Yeah, have to admit I don’t read over there anymore since they changed the format. I guess that is the problem with using a blog to promote policy. It’s not the kind of blogging I was thinking of.
Well, not really! Some things are considered unsayable, and that must be admitted.
There are little boxes, and ‘The Left’ is defined by the loudest, and may I say (QoT) the most aggressive people.. and those of us who disagree on some points, are ceremonially expelled from the ‘Left Box’, when those others don’t really have the right.
There’s plenty of scope here for argument and the ‘left box’ is very big. However, some statements get shot down by almost everyone
Which is why I dislike the whole “Left” / “Right” paradigm Vicky.
All it ever does is stump conversation.
“Good Civilised” , “Evil Civilised” and “Not Civilised” says it all much better.
There is science behind the word Civilised whereas there is only heartfelt ideology in the political alignments of “Left” and “Right”.
Labour could better utilise their blog site, pity that those causing all the self inflicted injuries are also the same that administer the site !!
It is extremely sad that the same comments being made in 07/08 regarding the lack of connectivity with the electorate is still evident. Given the need for a political party to be seen as being connected and have policies that benefit day to day living. especially as many of today’s pressing issues have been around for quite some time. House affordability, current account, NZ indebtness etc
http://www.interest.co.nz/property/home-loan-affordability
At least someone in officialdom within Labour is reading posts on this site- perhaps they have been for quite some time.
If Labour have finished mutilating The Standard… – http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/if-labour-have-finished-mutilating.html
Bet you Bomber!
Yeah but Martyn bet you on all the other posts he’s spamming all over…
I thought that these Tumeke quotes were interesting and especially that of Little, the union bloke. I would have thought with his background he might be interested in hearing and thinking what ‘the people’ have to say.
But the idea expressed in Tumeke that The Standard commenters would be happy if there was an effort ‘to bring them into the loop’ by Labour is strange when the main tenor of the discourse is that Labour’s loop is too exclusive and is strangling the healthy progression of the Party.
Criticisms are not brainless bloggers random farts but come from those with deep dissatisfaction about the Labour Party leaders’ lack of vitality and lack of desire to return to Labour values and concerns of the past. These need to be relevant to the present and future, which requires thought research and discussion, then action, not just flaccid promises about looking after the popularly vulnerable, like old people and children.
The unpopularly vulnerable need help and real opportunities too, and the country itself is on this side. NZ itself is vulnerable and being made more so. Plugging the gaps then building a robust country with human values is a bigger job than the present Labour bunch will be able to make an impression on. The damn Party has been hijacked by the comfortably off. If they won’t kick themselves into awareness then action to produce good policies to govern the country intelligently and ably, someone will keep putting drawing pins on their padded armchairs.
Hi Prism,
Having met and spoken with Andrew Little more than once around the topic of NZ’s monetary supply, and so forth, he struck me as somewhat “flakey” , in that while he was knowledgeable on the topic, and indicated keeness to speak out against about it, and bring it into the “mainstream” consciousness, he was not being honest when he said it.
Appreciate that Little is not a finance spoksman, but his comments of which have been mentioned on the blog, and by yourself above, indicate there is hypocracy there, and to expect much more from Little (in any sense), would be to expect David Parker to speak against the neo-liberal capitalist scam!
No no, these people are as “arm up back” as anyone who has come before them!
I can’t recall anyone really arguing for that. Maybe CV when he has floated an idea that we should start a party (urrgh – I got interested in politics to ensure that I didn’t have to enter politics) which sank rapidly.
Many of the people who author and comment here are actively involved in either Labour of the Greens or elsewhere or have actively decided to not be active in those or other organisations at some stage.
What you hear with the people actively involved in Labour are screams of frustration about how damn hard it is to get anything changed, or an almost complete (and rather telling) silence, or what amount to demands for unthinking loyalty. For the ones who stopped being members or activists for Labour you mostly hear that they consider that the party left them.
If I get time today, I’ll finish off the 3 posts I currently have part written on this. But in the meantime try this from Jordan Carter..
http://jtc.blogs.com/just_left/2012/11/changing-labour-this-weekend.html
What you are seeing on the blogs is a direct reflection of that impatience with dadda knows best inside the party. Activists elect MP’s and then they damn well expect the MP’s to perform. It may not be what individual activists want, but it should be in the line laid out by the party as a whole. Currently caucus essentially can and largely does ignore anything outside of their internal incestuous wellington fuckfest (I’m nowhere near as nice as Jordan) and actively avoids being responsible to anyone. That has to change.
Ok lprent. It seems to me that if Labour elite does not loosen up and ensures it includes its own people in the loop eg decision making, say for leader and electorate MP candidates, then there is going to be a lesser Labour Party around the next election which will make it harder to get the home run they ought to enoy.
Hell – I’d settle for almost any kind of change inside the party and the relationship between the parliamentary team and the party good or bad. It at least means that the system can change
The current systems for almost anything you want to look at inside Labour are fossilized in mid-70’s rust. It has been held together and given a appearance of life by a few gifted politicians from the 70’s (Clark, Cullen, and a few others) for decades as a result of the ruptures in the party from the 80’s. They knew how a political party should operate and acted accordingly on an individual basis.
Problem is that the current group don’t understand the difference between a live party and a zombie one. Which is pretty clear when you see their comments related to any criticism.
Strategically getting the process of change working again is the most important thing that can happen right now. The second most important is to make sure it doesn’t stall in a feel-good and meaningless fuzziness sense of achievement.Which is what I expect that many in the ‘elite’ would like
Nice comments by Jordan, but Jordan likes the status quo a bit too much and hence will not back anything more than mild incremental change. Certainly much less than today’s dire circumstances require.
I’ve been convinced over time that cleaning up, clearing out and and rebuilding an existing one is a much better idea.
I did consider a new party but, yeah, modernising an existing party with an existing network would be much easier.
🙂
Another example of deep misanthropy from Anne Tolley. Speaking in a clipped tone ‘We are not in the business of (prisoner’s) storage’. WTF the prisoners themselves are actually in storage. And they are people taken temporarily out of society as the main means of dealing with antisocial and criminal behaviour, which does not put rehabilitation and some restitution and atonement first. But they are people and we hope for them to be rehabilitated somewhat after the prison experience so how can they be helped by refusing to hold their reasonable possessions which should include their physical items of work while in prison, like carvings and paintings. Also their clothes and family items. Some of these people will not have any other reliable and safe place where they can be stored. Losing their memorials of their own history and past is bad for them.
Typical fucking tory. You’re not supposed to be in the business of anything Tolley you fool, you’re in government.
Getting a bit sick of hearing these right wing dicks referring to countries as companies.
Agreed, but they’re being honest Felix, why do people still not get that!
+1
Everything the Tories do is business and as a business it’s all about cutting costs and boosting profit. It’s not about the people or doing things in such a way so that those people actually have a good living standard.
How refreshing to see some criticism of someone/something other than Labour! I was beginning to think I’d stumbled on to a Right wing/libertarian site (as they’re the ones who promote cannabis/abortion/LGBLT lifestyles and yet hate Labour)…
felix
Yes. I think that their responses are mined from a not-overlarge book of politically suitable cliches.
Elitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism
error rests ultimately on ignorance, not on the willful rejection of manifest truth;
see Plato, Gorgias, and, Protagoras
Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda:_The_Formation_of_Men%27s_Attitudes
Determined? or not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_determinism
or maybe, sleepwalking?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_somnambulism
or just a member of the mob!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_determinism
Never mind about all this kerfuffle Mr Shearer, Granny is there to defend you and your friends against those nasty kids from the wrong side of the tracks:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10847192
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10847208
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10847238
I pit my nanny state against your Granny. So there.
Final quote from Herald editorial.
Suffice to say, what arrogance, ignorance and slanderous clap-trap coming from supposedly educated and informed individuals. In a bygone era they could be shot at dawn.
There are only three people who are currently qualified (to one degree or another) for the position of Labour Party leader – David Cunliffe, David Parker and Grant Robertson.
So the Herald believes all three are extreme, irresponsible individuals with serious personality defects?
What a bunch of silly wankers!!!
Don’t read Fran O’S any more and can’t be bothered with the Pagani eulogy, but:
surprise, surprise! They all appear on the same day. Now wouldn’t it be interesting to know who organised it!
That’s what I was thinking especially after Key brought up Fran O’S column in parliament at QT.
But the idea expressed in Tumeke that The Standard commenters would be happy if there was an effort ‘to bring them into the loop’ by Labour is strange when the main tenor of the discourse is that Labour’s loop is too exclusive and is strangling the healthy progression of the Party.
Let me clear up my comments here. If Shearer is still leader after February – for better or for worse, (and I’m sure you all know my opinion on that issue), then the first thing Shearer’s office needs to do is reach out to the left wing blogs and start bringing them into the loop starting with The Standard.
The Standard is the largest left wing blog in the NZ Blogosphere, it is bordering on outright insanity if the Labour Party leadership want to start a civil war with their own bloggers. In America, twitter has overtaken bloggers as the opinion shaping social media, but in NZ, because of our lack of ideological diversity amongst our newspapers, blogging will still be the main influencer…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/7750693/Politicians-bow-to-the-power-of-140-characters
…Labour need to play smart and work with the left wing blogs, not attack them and part of that must be an opening up and communicating with the left blogs.
You would never see the National Party attack farrar or slater like this and it would be unthinkable for anyone in the Obama camp to attack huffington post – Labour Party strategists don’t seem to understand how important the blogs will be this election.
My comments in the post referred to was a peace offering to the leadership about finding a way out of this current stand off because if Shearer remains as leader and continues to stab at the blogs, it’s a war he’ll lose.
What we all have in common is a deep desire to see the end of this hateful National Government and the criticism that has been thrown Labour’s way is driven by that desire to see a leader who can beat Key.
A little bit of engagement would do them good. Let’s face it, they do read ts…or their advisors or whoever do. And it does seem a bit fcked up to me that on the one hand DS keeps banging on about he is ‘listening to people’ in the provinces and so on, on the one hand, and then being utterly dismissive of those able and willing to speak on the other.
As for ‘in the loop’…if I’m understanding you correctly. Nah. Neither the Labour Party nor any of the other parties that claim to represent the left in parliament define the left. And that’s as it should be.
Yep, when a politician says they’re “listening to the people” it means they’re “talking at the people”.
Especially worrying if they refer to “the people OUT THERE”. Any public figure who uses that phrase is not to be trusted. They’re not part of the people, they’re something else.
QFT
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It seems that such is endemic to hierarchical governance systems and the longer the hierarchical system is around the more the hierarchy is disconnected from the people/society that they’re governing. At one point, Labour was a party of the people but they haven’t been since the 1980s at the least.
What many feel is a deep desire to be sure that if we overturn the NACTs, that the leftie side then is seen majorly in Labour, plus the Greens, reflecting each Party’s electoral grunt, and not a Labour with a rhetoric of restraint doing the minimum for the people and country, and leaving the Greens to present the needed forward-looking policy and legislation.
What they also don’t seem to grasp is that for every author writing about Labour, there many more commenters. And for every commenter there are many more readers. And for every author, commenter, reader, there are many more people in the real world, and elsewhere online, who they engage in political discussions. Networking is not new concept, so I’m beginning to suspect this has nothing to do with ignorance of social media, and everything to do with bloody mindedness at having their authority challenged. Stupid either way.
What do Labour MPs think of blogs? Let’s ask Clare Curran …
“We are a credible and established force in the New Zealand political blogosphere.
Most Labour MPs blog . Most of us are active on facebook. Many of us are on Twitter. These are our real voices. We don’t always agree with each other, but we do share common values.
We’re focussed, we’re pretty tough and we have hearts. We also have ideas.
Most importantly we say what we think so we can talk to you; our readers, commenters, critics and supporters. Tell us what you’re thinking about us and don’t hold back (within reason).”
http://blog.labour.org.nz/2011/05/05/the-terrible-twos/
Most Labour MPs blog – but nobody reads them, and they don’t have a vote?
Caucus confusion delivers Labour’s mixed message number 473, and counting …
Perhaps the problem is that no one reads Labours’ blog and when they do they tell Labour that they’re wrong.
Quoting @clarecurranmp
You guys are generalising again… Nobody reads Red Alert but all the comments are negative is a contradiction in terms. Please try not to do this. We don’t know how many people read Red Alert do we? It’s likely to be more than Nationals website.
Not all the comments on Red Alert are critical of Labour, in fact I would say they’re generally more critical of National. In my opinion, speaking in gross generalisations just weakens your arguments and makes you look foolish! It’s for your own benefit that I’m telling you this of course.
The problem as I see it is that will MP’s want to be actively involved with a group of commentators that actively use insults, accusations about other people intelligence etc etc.
Politically that can be problematic.
You need to clear up your own house before expecting others to clear theirs.
Politics without heightened emotions from time to time? Is that what you have on Planet Contrarian?
Pollyanna wanna cracker?
“Politics without heightened emotions from time to time? ”
No, not at all. But there is heightened debate and baseless invective wrought on one commentator by another because they didn’t like what they said.
Symptomatic of heightened emotions. Baby steps…
Indeed, but adults can usually control themselves.
As stated, if you think you can attract politicians to take The Standard seriously while you have moderators running around calling people names in the first instance – not as a result of ‘heightened emotion’ then by all means keep going.
Yes, you’re right, because politicians are paragons of all that is measured and under control when they debate things. On Planet Contrarian.
Whatever.
I love this blog for the way it crushes the lies and daily coruption of the government.
What side does Labour want to go with. The people and workers that express their views here, or th Establishment (which just happens to be the most corrupt and morally bankrupt government in New Zealand’s, and arguably the western world’s history)
I hate to agree with you TC (don’t do that too often eh!), but you have a point. If commentary is generally negative it will not be listened to, especially by those who it’s directed at. That’s why there’s a big difference between constructive and negative criticism.
However I don’t think Labours response towards The Standard was justified because of this dynamic, simply because politicians should know better. The onus is on politicians to change their ways in order to reduce negative criticism that is valid. Unless properly undertaken, the only response should be to change the system or themselves to fix the problems people highlight.
There’s currently lots of problems out there, and good commentary is about identifying them. In this way the blogosphere can be highly beneficial to a government, if only they bothered to listen.
The only abuse I’ve got on this site is from righties not lefties e.g.
Hilarious! The only abuse I have got is from those who call themselves Lefties (you prominent among them!) 😀
I have been told I am a rightist, which is simply absurd. Oh I am also a Creationist (wrong!), a climate change denier (wrong), and a hater of women (bizarrely wrong) oh, and I almost forgot, a racist. (Deeply, evilly offensive, but then attacking the Asians I have defended, is okay with the left.)
I’ve never abused you.
I’ve only disagreed with religious beliefs and responded to your defence of them at times.
That disagreement is not even particular to you.
That’s not entirely true, though, is it? Be honest…
I would not have thought that the Standard was the appropriate place to express your foibles! 😀
(I recommend Dawkins.net, or similar, or for New Zealanders, as they’re more at home in the USA, American Atheists… ).
a Common malady
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
I’ve been there. The depressive content was immediately fixed by inadvertently (or was it subconscious rebalancing?) getting myself into what my brain percieved as a live or die situation, accepting the hopelessness but going through the motions anyway, then something else emerged, shorting out whatever circuits were stuck in the loop.
Clearly this event was consciously unintentional and drastic therapy that I cannot recommend to others to simulate. It’s just interesting how the brain works and that the article says the dog trials don’t or can’t account for human variation.
The “therapy” also began a wider and more extensive series of psychological domino effects that had to be dealt with inside the same kind of environment that the intial problem began under, so yes, no easy answers/silver bullet. Initial review of what made it work was being in an environment that could not be controlled, but was not inherently hostile, in which the participant was competently familiar with certain laws of likelihood, cause and effect, making the brain as comfortable as possible – doing, reacting, planning, without conscious thinking to (perhaps) maximise the potential for subconscious rebalance to begin. However, we don’t know how long “it” had been planning this strategic intervention.
-Rouge Reynard the Hedgehog 🙂
Yep, been there, done that. Still get it sometimes and a lot of it I can put down to growing up in a dysfunctional family with an abusive father.
Fran O’Sullivan gives David Shearer the kiss of death.
She is a right wing, neo-liberal troll. So she gives anyone vaguely left-wing the kiss of death, nothing new there really.
Interesting comments…all nonsense of course.
More bad economic news retail down 0.8 per cent….wonder what that means in lost jobs?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10847318
redfed
No worries mate. There are some jobs going in a hardware store in some NZ town and they want meat workers somewhere down the country. Poorer Benefit says so.
You’ve struck gold…. Social Development Minister announces “free cattle car transport” to any beneficiary willing to relocate their family to some NZ town where a job might be going.
Own packed lunch and seating required, one way only.
No doubt you also get herded into and locked in the container car.
There is always something interesting happening in the world. As commenters were talking about the naughty generals I heard that adultery is a misdemeanour under USA military law. I find it hard to understand the precious idea that the USA holds about what should be a private matter. It is a pity that states transfer their attention to controlling the personal, rather than the use of power and money dealings.
There is an interesting thing happening in the UK with Starbucks. They appear to be doing something that is common with international franchises, extracting inflated royalties to maximise what they can withdraw from the country. Returns go into a trust or something happens,. then to somewhere in the Netherlands, then to the Bahamas or one of those tax havens, and it can’t be brought into the USA because they would at last have to pay tax on it – I think 30%. If you want more than this garbled info it was on radionz this morning sometime. The amount being looked at is in the billions of tax otherwise due.
FYI
Anyone available to come to this protest for judicial accountability outside the Supreme Court in Wellington tomorrow?
14 November 2012
PRESS RELEASE: ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’ Penny Bright
“It’s time for NZ Judges to be held accountable to the LAW – starting with Chief High Court Judge Winkelmann.
Unbelievably, in New Zealand, ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’, (according to Transparency International’s 2011 Corruption Perception Index http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ ) our Judges are effectively ‘out of control’, and operate in ways that are neither transparent, nor accountable”, says ‘anti-corruption campaigner’ Penny Bright.
“There is no enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Judges; no ‘Register of Pecuniary Interests’ for NZ Judges and Court proceedings are often not recorded. How can a ‘court of record’ – not keep a record? How can ‘justice be done and be seen to be done’ – when there is no record in Court of WHAT was done?”
Tomorrow, Thursday 15 November 2012, will be a protest outside the Supreme Court in Wellington, from 9am – 10am and 1pm – 2pm.
(85 Lambton Quay) http://www.wellingtonnz.com/school_trips/supreme_court_and_old_high_court_building#TB_window
Here, an unprecedented and historic Court case is being held.
For the first time in the history of the world – a ‘third party’ publisher is facing six weeks jail for ‘contempt of Court’ for publishing a suppressed judicial decision.
This third party’ publisher, is arguably NZ’s foremost judicial ‘Public Watchdog / ‘whistle-blower’ Vince Siemer, who exposes the lack of judicial transparency and accountability through his website – http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz
Vince Siemer is facing six weeks jail for ‘contempt of court’ for publishing Chief High Court Judge Helen Winkelmann’s decision, that the Urewera defendants were not entitled to trial by jury – a decision which she then suppressed – so that the public were not allowed to know.
“On what lawful basis can a NZ Judge suppress a decision or the reasons for that decision?” asks Ms Bright.
“This is the basis of the Appeal which will be heard in the NZ Supreme Court, Thursday 15 November 2012. (SC 37 – 2012). ”
Vince Siemer is being defended by prominent human rights lawyer Tony Ellis.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
In a New Zealand Herald article by David Fisher, dated 27 October 2012 – “Judges respond to critics”
– Chief High Court Judge, Justice Helen Winkelmann had this to say:
“The requirements that judges work in public and that they provide reasons for their decisions provides the best means of accountability. Their decisions can be, and are, the subject of public comment and criticism. Their decisions can be reviewed or appealed. These are the primary means by which judges are held accountable for their decisions.”
Judges, she says, “are not subject to personal direction; not from politicians, the Ministry or the public, and nor from other judges, such as the head of bench”. It leaves “judges … able to decide a case according to law, free from improper pressure or influence”.
……………………………
Justice Winkelmann warns against any public impulse to make judges’ decisions more “consistent” against a set of predetermined guidelines.
“Predictability is achieved through the application of the law. It is not possible or appropriate to measure predictability beyond that.
“If judges do make mistakes these can be corrected on appeal. That is a safeguard against error.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10843198
“Spot the glaring hypocrisy!” says Ms Bright.
“Can a Judge ‘just make it up’ and make a Court Order, which is not itself based upon the ‘Rule of Law,’ for the suppression of a Judgment?
We shall see…………….”
Signatures will also be collected for the following petition – which :
“Respectfully requests:
That the House urgently legislate to adopt an enforceable Code of Conduct for the New Zealand
Judiciary based upon the ‘Bangalore Principles for Judicial Conduct’ which are intended to establish
standards for the ethical conduct of judges, and include the following underpinning judicial values and
principles: independence; impartiality; integrity; propriety; equality; competency and diligence.”
(The ‘Bangalore Principles for Judicial Conduct’, are a ‘Code of Conduct’ made by Judges – for Judges, and are effectively a ‘best practice’ model that could be used here in New Zealand. http://www.ajs.org/ethics/pdfs/Bangalore_principles.pdf )
Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/PETITION-Code-of-Conduct-for-NZ-Judges-.pdf
Well the head criminal defender is actually Sian Elias, so be sure aim some attention there too!
The judiciary is a rotten entity protecting themselves from the public knowing what is actually happening, that has been proven continually, and it goes on!
now it’s Key referencing The Standard in Parliament.Wow!
Really, in what capacity?
Shearer quoted Fran O’Sullivan at Key.
Key quoted the Standard referencing O’Sullivan.
(As soon as Shearer mentioned Fran in his question, I winced. It was obvious Key was going to quote today’s Herald column back at him. Shearer’s inability to “see where it’s going” is remarkable – and constant. He’s got no antennae at all).
It’s not just Shearer’s problem. It’s his staff and advisors who are being well PAID to cover this shit off.
Basically the PM has better staffwork than Shearer does.
Here it is … (from http://www.parliament.nz)
David Shearer: Is not Fran O’Sullivan right on the unemployment statistics when she says “For Key to simply shrug his shoulders on this score doesn’t cut it. … We owe it to the young people who are yet to even get on the employment ladder to be less ostrich-like as a nation.”; when will he change track to grow jobs?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Three things. Firstly, when it comes to young people, the Government is engaged in a number of activities to support young people, and that includes things like the 90-day probation period and the youth minimum wage, which certainly help make them more attractive in the workforce. Secondly, making sure their educational skills are better is critically important, and we know that that was something that the Labour Government did not care about. Making sure that we have a number of programmes for them is critically important. We have been doing that, whether it is through the Youth Guarantee or whatever it might be. Thirdly, we know the Labour Party is not to be believed when it comes to youth unemployment, because in the weekend Megan Woods was out there telling people that a quarter of all young people were unemployed. That is factually incorrect. And the fourth thing I would say is that I do not know whether the member saw—because he wants to quote Fran O’Sullivan—The Standard yesterday afternoon, but on The Standard yesterday afternoon it said that if Fran O’Sullivan comes out and endorses David Shearer, it will be the kiss of death. Well, guess what was in the New Zealand Herald this morning!
Thanks for the tip. here is the link to the transcript.
And someone better tell JK the Standard ain’t a person. Can we get a ruling from Mr Speaker on this?
Thanks for the actual link karol.
You’re welcome.
Gawd, Bennett just called herself “bouncy” /shudder/.
Bomber: Bouncy Bennett or Cruel Paula: you choose. Unbelievable metaphor:
What an insult to those who are unemployed, to refer to their plight as “bouncy”!
Sorry Karol, but I just got this Image of a certain fat ass bouncing around parliament. Not good first thing in the Ante Meridian. My Imagination is sabotaging me.
Sooner or later this must result death:
Will this government then be booked for manslaughter as it should be?
Aw fuck. Can’t really articulate at the moment to be honest.
aye.
And the fuckers knew this would happen when they brought it in.
yes muzza and The Jackal; once “power” feels threatened, up goes the ante.
on a sunnier note,
many people in China still desire to become one of the more than 82M Communist Party members, through good grades, attitudes and not smoking cigarettes according to one recent successful admission, however, there are more Christians in China than there are Communist Party members; as an aside, in one “successful” town / city stood a 1 Tonne solid gold cow statue ( I will always remember the Chinese art dealer in Hong Kong saying “no limit” to how much a price a “something” might attract under mercantile / market conditions).
Yeah but throwing out on the street or starving 84 kids under the age of 5 years is less important than retaining support amongst the belligerent stupid part of the electorate.
Even skilled workers are being dumped on by this government. A bright women spoke up this morning about how she has not been paid as a part-time school office worker since August I think. Also another in the office. Novopay can’t cope.
She has had to borrow at a rate of 20% to pay the bills. She eats sometimes at friends’ houses. Family and friends give her handouts to keep her going.
This is the clever society that a ‘wise, knowledgable, super-effective, efficient’ NACT bunch always portrayed themselves as. Hah! Bet the wealthy old b.stards and b..ches still think that NACT is the tops, if they haven’t lost their money in the various financial crashes and leaky homes savings wipeouts. And even then if they did suffer, they might never bring themselves to vote Labour, ‘that’s so lower class, we don’t feel we can support them’.
Our country is being ruined while the professional classes, top management and well-organised tradesmen treat themselves and try to avoid tax.
The funny thing about Novopay is that it’s almost an exact repeat of the balls-up in the early 1990s when I believe it was the Wellington Board of Education computerised their pay system. Poor systems design resulted in a costly kerfuffle where people waited months on end to get their pay.
It’s funny, because the WBE case is literally a case study covered in 100-level IT courses. An 18y.o. fresher knows that mashing a system onto the client (rather than designing a system around the needs of the client) is a fast track to an all-round cockup.
The fact that there was nobody in MinEd who remembered that debacle is another reason why culling “back room boorowkrats” is a dumb idea – you lose the institutional memory of the person in the corner who quietly does their job, but more importantly has faced the same pitfalls before. “Central computerisation of pay” should have rung alarm bells as to what went wrong last time.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7948159/UAE-tightens-laws-on-political-activism-on-web
Oh look, this is what you get when you try to “fight for your freedoms”, and even when you don’t – Yeah lets lock it down before they get rowdy, which is great for that bastian of freedom, Bahrain! Coming to NZ sometime soon, I would expect!
The Arab Spring – Working out great for ……the ruling classes and war mongers!
David Farrar hates Home Brew
Music has always been the voice of the people and Home Brew Crew, like many artists before them, are simply expressing what many young New Zealanders believe.
[…]
There is no question that funding allocation should be made in an unbiased way to ensure growth in productive areas. Inhibiting potential growth just because of political opinion is quite frankly nuts!
Radio National News at 4:30 says Collins V Mallard + Little problem resolved behind Court closed doors today. Wonder what???
Stuff is saying that Mallard and Little apologized for implying Collins leaked the information and it sounds like no money exchanged hands. A good time was had by the lawyers!
So, what did Little and Mallard achieve?
It sums up the incompetence and self-inflicted wounds of the Labour caucus – especially the Master Strategist that is Trevor “28%” Mallard.
Here are three good options for politicians –
1) Don’t stuff up.
2) Stuff up (we all do), but immediately close it down. An apology or whatever. Problem goes away on day one. Forgotten.
3) Fight to the bitter end. Embarrass your opponents. Win – or at least, spin it as a win, by causing enough damage to the other side.
Here is the Mallard option –
Stuff up, say you won’t back down, act tough for ages, talk about how you’re going to embarrass the government in court, and then … back down.
It’s a repeated pattern of behaviour from Mallard. He lacks basic judgement, and so does anyone who takes his advice. Like the Labour leader.
Nah, there was no apology.
they said they would have regret if someone inferred what they implied.
Settlement makes no claim about whether what they said was defamatory, and there is no apology.
Those were Collin’s stated bottom lines as of this morning.
Hard to explain away the word “regret”.
More to the point, 2 senior Labour MPs were in Auckland today, in court for no good reason. It’s not the biggest story around, but it’s all part of the drip-drip opportunity cost. Wasting time and being irrelevant to the rest of us.
If they were in court on our behalf … that would be very different. But then they’d be different people.
She sued them gs.
Yes, Collins is power-crazy and writ-happy and worse. Agreed.
But the question is: what should the Labour MPs have done?
Answer – get summoned to the leader’s office, and be told:
“Is this about you, or the party?”
If it’s for the party, and you can win, then go for it – and win.
If it’s for you, make it go away. Because YOU – Trevor and Andrew – don’t matter. Only victory matters.”
Focus, focus, focus. Labour haven’t got it. I’m sure no such conversation took place, and I’m equally sure it happened often under Helen and Heather.
Individuals, not a team. So – at best a draw and a waste of time and money.
Votes won: zero.
That’s a nice theory there gobsmacked.
The more likely scenario is that information painting Collins in a bad light would have been divulged during legal proceedings. To determine if there was a case to answer, the judge would need to determine if what Mallard and Little said was true or false by looking into the validity of their claims. That would likely mean yet another investigation into a National MP, because without it a determination of defamation couldn’t be given.
Under the law, any evidence unearthed would have to be shared with Mallard and Little, who would likely make it public knowledge to ensure their comments were vindicated, and Collins was publicly humiliated. She would likely need to resign, which in my opinion is the right thing to do in cases of Ministers leaking the private information of New Zealand citizens.
If there was any truth to what they said, then clearly Collins would want it to go away. It appears to me that all her initial bluster and threats of court action was an attempt to take the focus off the fact that the leaked information could only have come from a limited number of sources, and most of the evidence pointed directly at her.
It’s a classic political play to create a diversion and then let the initial controversy slowly fade from the publics awareness, and as usual nobody will be held to account for the initial wrongdoing. This pisses me off, because whoever actually leaked the confidential information in an attempt to discredit and defame a whistle blower, will not be held to account.
It’s not about what the Labour MPs should have done (because they weren’t the ones bringing the court action), it’s about what they will do now to ensure justice and accountability. It was Collins who was making the legal claim, and it was her decision to not pursue that claim because of potential ramifications on the National party, and her position within it.
If Collins leaked (I have no idea who did, nor do you) then it’s actually the duty of Mallard and Little to stand by their claim. They should have the courage to expose a liar. They could have repeated it at any time, under Parliamentary privilege.
They haven’t.
Nevertheless, Ministers should not be suing political opponents for defamation, and “qualified privilege” would be the likely defence. Nobody comes out of this well.
I have no idea who leaked the information? Don’t be an idiot gobsmacked.
We know that the leaked information could have only come from a limited number of people, one of these people is Judith Collins. A trial would have likely revealed exactly who had leaked the information, and only one person had control of whether it went ahead or not.
Claiming that Little and Mallard repeating their claims would have made them more valid or ensured the leaker was revealed is a bit silly. Of course they’re not vindicated, but this doesn’t mean their claims were incorrect.
Only an investigation into the matter can do that, and the decision as to whether there is one is Nationals. I’m picking they won’t bother, for reasons only a truly deluded right wing fool would fail to observe.
there are still investigations ongoing I think, Auditor general, SCC, Privacy commissioner?
Thanks for that Pascal’s bookie… Let’s hope they’re not inhibited in those investigations.
Interestingly there were separate investigations undertaken by the auditor general and the privacy commissioner into circumstances surrounding the leaks, but neither looked specifically into who exactly leaked the Michelle Boag letter about Bronwyn Pullar to the media.
The questions remain: Who exactly was it that leaked Bronwyn Pullar’s information?
The report by Auditor General (PDF) Lyn Provost was mainly concerned with whether Ms Pullar gained any advantage in the way her claim was treated. Here’s the only reference to Judith Collins:
This doesn’t clear up the matter of whether Judith Collins was involved in leaking a New Zealand citizens private information though. I’m not sure about the Investigation by the Privacy Commissioner, as I cannot find a copy online.
I recall that there were complaints by opposition MPs that the investigations focus was too narrow. In other words they weren’t going to look into the specific leak we’re talking about.
You should be stoked gs, coz that’s pretty much what they did today.
You seem to think that the timing would have been better when Collins was demanding apologies and acting all tough.
I’m not sure that backing down at that point would have have looked very good at all (and it would have to have been a substantial back down rather than than the heavily parsed waffle the ‘regret’ language is).
And I’m sure as shit that it wouldn’t have stopped the story; the story would have been that Mallard and Little had backed down in the face of threats of a law suit. the coverage would have made Shearer’s missing tape look like a love in, and Collins would have been on tape every night saying whatever the hell she liked.
I’m as much an unfan of the Labour leadership as you are, but sit and think a spell, mkay?
This obviously needs to be done to all parliamentary speeches and questions:
Suffice to say, Hekia Parata failed to make any sense.
Put speeches and articles through this as well, and you can find out the reading age and other readability stats: http://www.read-able.com/
I did this to my last blog post:
“This page has an average grade level of about 14.
It should be easily understood by 19 to 20 year olds.”
Is Hekia Parata deliberately obtuse or is she genuinely unable to answer questions?
Did you drive to work?
The complexion of the classroom is being consulted and will in due course be parent understandings able to improve children who are failing and AAARRGGGGGGH!
Well she is on a search for the holy grail, maybe she can visit castle AAARRGGGGGGH along the way. 😉
WTF The complexion (what she going to hand out acne cream?) And how do you consult with acne, and will (Who wrote this ? (It looks like something that comes from an overseas scam.)) improve the children’s Acne?
Ahhh I get it now. Extra Acne cream for the children who are failing, the overseas stuff is better, as it helps the parents understand why their children slip through the cracks so easily.
Has anyone read through the Labour Policy Remit for this years conference? https://www.labour.org.nz/sites/labour.org.nz/files/2012-Policy-Remits-Final.pdf
A few points:
Remit 1: The future of privatised state assets
Looks like they are finally going to decide whether or not to put their money where their mouth is
Remit 5: Gender quotas on company boards
Agree in principle, but 50% by legislation!!! What if there is an uneven number of people on a board? What if there is a 50/50 split on a board and a male steps down, would it be descrimination to not accept a female application?
Remit 10: Lowering the voting age, Civics
Seriously? Why don’t we help kids learn the current curriculum before we start opening ourselves up to politically motivated teaching in schools!
Remit 11: Gender quota for the House of Representatives
What happened to democracy! So if 80% of elected representitives are males, we then have to say the public got it wrong and replace some (how is that decided) with females?
Remit 12: A New Zealand republic
Didn’t see this one coming, what happened to talk of a referendum? Bugger it, we’ll just campaign on it and if we can cobble together a government we’ll push it through, we have a mandate (remember those arguements?)
Remit 26: Mining and extractive industries
a)phasing out all coal mining – weren’t they just in Greytown protesting against coal mine closures?
c)Labour apply the precautionary principle to the practice of hydraulic fracturing where there is potential for the contamination of groundwater and triggering local seismic events and ban fracking in New Zealand. – Lol, tinfoil hat much? Have they ever read a study into current hydraulic fracking methods? Is there any report EVER alluding to fracking causing local seismic events (peer reviewed obviously)?
Remit 42: Ports of Auckland
Umm, they want a policy that an individual company will follow existing policy? Isn’t that already the law?
Remit 47: Eliminating inequalities
Racial profiling?
And that is just from the first 50!
Remit 10: Lowering the voting age, Civics
Seriously? Why don’t we help kids learn the current curriculum before we start opening ourselves up to politically motivated teaching in schools!
They already learn the current curriculum, they can do civics as well…it’d be a lot more useful than some of the stuff they get taught.
Remit 11: Gender quota for the House of Representatives
What happened to democracy!
We’re finally coming to the conclusion that democracy is not fair and only favours those with power & status, so they’re trying to fix the myth of democracy…going for equity instead.
Remit 47: Eliminating inequalities
Racial profiling?
Yeah, Labour have this mad idea of opposing the effects of racism. Kinda like the opposition to sexism in Remit 11. Think of it as opposing racism and sexism, not creating racism and sexism…or better yet, think of it as not being a fuckwit
This is a very very bad idea.
true…I’m all for democracy when when we have a more equitable society, but until then I’m happy for a loss of democracy to address historical inequalities
We open this door and we’ll fuck ourselves. One person, one vote, and the results of each contest are determined by the results of the vote. Maximum proportionality, no excuses.
CV, I have written this day into my diary, I thought by now you would automatically dismiss anything I said out of hand. Good to see there is at least some common ground here!
Opposing the effects of racism??? Read it again:
Remit 47: Eliminating inequalities
THAT Labour in Government takes action to eradicate the consequences of poverty to all children and specifically tamariki by:
a) supporting funding for food in schools programmes in all decile 1-3 schools; and
b) supporting the eradication of rheumatic fever and other preventable illnesses through funding for swabbing and primary health care intervention in all decile 1-3 schools.
So by saying Decile 1-3 schools mainly consist of Maori children or “specifically tamariki” as they put it, that is opposing racism? Sounds like blatant racial profiling which is a form of racism to me.
Sounds like a blatant over-active imagination to me.
Well, it was good while it lasted…..
🙂
yeah, its opposing racism…why else are more Maori in lower decile schools? If its not the result of racism, what is it?
“yeah, its opposing racism…why else are more Maori in lower decile schools? If its not the result of racism, what is it?”
That is a generalisation that I find racist. There are children of many different ethnic backgrounds in lower decile schools, why single out just Maori children? If they are over represented in lower decile schools, then why not speak to the local Iwi and try to find out why, find common themes and work to remedy these, start working to help these families out of the situation they are in at a local level. I am sure that if you look at decile 1-3 South Island schools you will find a completely different mix of ethnicities than in Auckland decile 1-3 schools for example.
My point is, this potential policy is a racially based, and while I agree on the premis, singling out a race like this isn’t helpful to public perception (and therefore race relations).
The remit is economically based.
Maori are disproportionately represented in lower decile schools. Even schools in those areas that have different demographic proportions. It is simply a statement of fact to state that helping children in ower decile schools will help many Maori.
However, targeting services at Maori is ethnically based by definition (e.g. Whanau Ora) – but then so is affirmative action. The question is whether this provides an advantage, or is a more effective way of providing the same services, or simply addresses inequalities that have lasted for generations. But that’s a seperate issue. The remit is economically based.
“That is a generalisation that I find racist.”
Why?…the numbers are there…too many Maori kids in lower decile. Why does this happen if not because of racism?..It has to be because of racism, doesn’t it
“There are children of many different ethnic backgrounds in lower decile schools, why single out just Maori children?”
Because of the historical injustices, Maori issues are different to other issues. Its biculturalism. If you mean Pacific Islanders – that already happens, there are a lot of programmes and policies for many groups of people.
“I am sure that if you look at decile 1-3 South Island schools you will find a completely different mix of ethnicities than in Auckland decile 1-3 schools for example.”
Yeah, because there’s vastly different ethnic difference between the North and South Islands.
“My point is, this potential policy is a racially based, and while I agree on the premis, singling out a race like this isn’t helpful to public perception (and therefore race relations).”
I’ve got no problem with it…if we’ve screwed over one cohort of the population then I am all for sorting it out. I think ‘perception’ only becomes a concern when the issue gets framed the way you are framing it. If we don’t accept the historical and institutional racism is still a very big problem in NZ, then yes, perception is a problem. But to be fair, if we don’t accept the historical and institutional racism is still a very big problem in NZ, then our race relations are a joke, and by taking the individual responsibility route (and claiming ‘we’re all Kiwi’s’) we are suggesting all sorts of racist things.
It would be racist if it were targeting only Maori children in decile 1-3 schools. As it is worded it is policy aimed at all children in decile 1-3 schools, which by the way, happen to have a disproportionate number of Maori children.
I’m trying hard to see your problem with that Bob. (except that it’s not a universal benefit)
It’s also pretty absurd!
Last night, listening to Clive, they had an item about school children making Camilla a carrot cake, and every child they interviewed was Maori (I didn’t hear the name of the school, or its decile level.) But it made me remember a bizarre incident that took place in 1992. My son attended Myers Kindy in Queen St, and I attended with him, as we’d only just come from Welly and he was settling in. For some reason that I don’t remember, an outside broadcast cast crew from TV3 had come to film at Myers Kindy. The producer or reporter, I don’t remember which now, spent literal hours (which upset the kids and the teachers) arranging them on the mat for mat time, so that all the ‘Maori’ kids were up the front. (She was rather upset that none of the brown kids were actually Maori, but two Islanders, an Indian and a middle eastern boy).
Then, when she had them all arranged to her satisfaction, and started her piece to camera, the Island girl got up, ran to the back where my blue-eyed son sat, and hauled him up the room to sit by her. As the patience of the teachers was exhausted, she had to go with that. We watched that night, and saw her claiming that Myers kindy was an ‘inner city kindergarten, attended by poor children’ (hilarious if you actually knew the place *) and saw the camera focused very tightly on the Island kids and my son who stuck out like a meerkat amongst dolphins!
Since then, I have been very sceptical indeed about TV news items showing the demographic of a particular school.
* Myers kindy is in upper Queen Street, and was attended by kids whose parents worked in the CBD, or who lived in the area, and was therefore extremely mixed as to ethnicity and SES. Numerically speaking, the dominant nationality was French, thanks to one New Zealand mother married to a Frenchman, who brought their friends along).