Open mike 14/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 14th, 2013 - 183 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike

 

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike …

183 comments on “Open mike 14/11/2013”

  1. Breaking: Wiki Leaks Publishes Part Of The Secret TPP Proposals!!!

    Happy analyzing!

    • weka 3.1

      Why did you like it? To me it looks facile. Of course lots of people decide who they will vote for before the election campaign – that’s everyone who isn’t a swing voter. I know who I will be voting for now. If she had crunched the actual numbers on those percentages I’d be more interested.

      She thinks that Labour have to get votes from the GP. Good grief, how long until people understand what MMP is. Taking votes from the GP won’t make Labour any more likely to form govt. While I think there will be inevitable vote shifting between the two parties next year depending on how they campaign, the votes that Labour need are going to come from the 800,000 who didn’t vote last time, and probably from NACT and NZF.

    • karol 3.2

      From Claire Robinson, Nat cheerleader?

      • rhinocrates 3.2.1

        I knew Claire in a former job. She is not a bad person, but she is, without a doubt, the most unimaginative empathy-less mediocre plodder you could ever hope to avoid.

    • framu 3.3

      for starters shes her prediction of a nat lead coalition relies on a few less than certain outcomes

      1) the nats retaining or gaining seats
      2) dunne and act both getting backin
      3) or colin craig getting in

      which are all pretty damn big assumptions

      so nah – its a pretty weak write up

      • greywarbler 3.3.1

        Hopefully for dunney it will be a long drop. There was an item on ventriloquist dummies recently and his head would make for a great political lampoon. Actually a piece of art installation would be to have his head with a light bulb aloft under a shade and label it ‘Politcal Lampoon’.

  2. Despite all the moral concern and outrage expressed on ‘the standard’ about….

    1) young girls and alcohol…alcohol use/abuse…drunkenness in general by young New Zealanders
    2) teenage boy sex gang Roast Busters and rape and sexual abuse of underage girls….
    3)..patriarchy, sexism and abuse of women in general
    4.)JT and Willy ‘s insensitive interviewing of a young abuse victim….and their subsequent suspension from radioLive ( much to the outrage of my teenage son!..ha ha)
    5)how NZ parents are not being responsible and bringing up children properly
    6)the Auckland (Catholic family man) Mayor Len Brown’s sex scandal…two years of frolicking and cavorting conducted on Council sacred property and at Sky City gambling casino with a young Asian whose sympathies were actually with the other side and who was working with the other side
    7)the Auckland police and their cynicism, ineptitude or worse…..

    ….nothing has been said about the building of Aucklands 15 story meg-brothel (opposite the Sky Tower) ….why?….I would like to hear reasons why , because this has the potential to really embed sexual abuse of NZ girls and women…. in the very heart of Auckland City forever

    …to me , this Capitalist enterprise allowed by Len’s Auckland Council is a far greater crime than working class male JTs and Willy’s misdemeanors…which have received a lot of noise from the Left and a sound smacking…lets get real here

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1211/S00185/auckland-mega-brothel-hearings-labeled-a-sham.htm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11134209

    • weka 4.1

      Out of curiosity, what is your objection to the brothel, and how do you connect it with sexual abuse of children?

      • Chooky 4.1.1

        @ weka…barn farming of women for sex and profit is not conducive to respect of women or children…..it creates a climate of objectification for sexual gratification…..abuse of children can lead to prostitution

        1)…how many women are coerced into prostitution?…how many women get into prostitution because of child abuse, lack of education, lack of well paid meaningful work….drug addictions?

        2) …..as a woman it restricts your freedom of movement….it restricts where you as a woman or child can safely walk in the streets and areas after dark

        3.) …it creates a climate of corruption in which ANY woman is fair game…and all women and girls are potential prostitutes… ordinary women run the risk of being regarded as prostitutes …
        ….i know this personally because i used to work in a union, next door to a brothel and i was accosted on the street and asked “How Much?”……

        4..)….any woman or girl is fair game because society condones this behaviour where women are objectified and used….legalising prostitution has not protected prostitutes…. judging by the numbers of prostitute murders in Christchurch since it was legalised

        6.) i have no objection to prostitution if it is hidden and a woman runs her own business discretely…and prostitution does not foul certain streets with condoms and needles

        • aerobubble 4.1.1.1

          The whole point surely was to expose the industry to regulation.

          Take alcohol, gunpowder, abortion, and soon recreational drugs, its better to have them in the tent rather out of sight.

          I thought the whole push of National was to provide facilities that Asian visitors would expect in NZ when they come for conferences. i.e along side the conference halls, a casino and a big brothel. Its Key’s social conservatism and free market agenda merging. Selling an airline merely makes vertical the whole package so that it can be mostly foriegned own and so profits flow overseas.

    • Te Reo Putake 4.2

      You’ve already posted this comment chooky and you were told two days ago that telling the authors what to do is not good form. If you feel that strongly about it, write a guest post.

      • Chooky 4.2.1

        …what authors?

        • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1.1

          “Despite all the moral concern and outrage expressed on ‘the standard’ about…

          ..nothing has been said about the building of Aucklands 15 story meg-brothel (opposite the Sky Tower) ….why?….I would like to hear reasons why ”

          edit: http://thestandard.org.nz/policy/

          • weka 4.2.1.1.1

            Could be aimed at commenters though.

            • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Indeed, weka, but “the standard” starts with the authors and if commenters were meant, chooky should have said so. Remember, this comment was posted two days ago on open mike and received the same response. Chooky has decided to repost the comment, ignoring the advice given two days ago and choosing not to define the target in the way you suggest.

              • weka

                Fair enough, and on my first reading today I did automatically think ‘authors’ rather than commenters. I didn’t see the thread the other day, just had a look now.

          • Chooky 4.2.1.1.2

            @ Te Reo Putake

            eerr ummmh….I did not get a warning from Big Daddy Lprent…nobody gave me a warning …just you now!

            ….I was not criticising ‘the Standard’ as such …just the orientations of some arguments and perspectives …of which i have been party to myself

            …We are not all unquestionable Holy Prophets here I hope …it is a continuing dialogue and dialectic….we can change opinions and question opinions I hope!…or are you suggesting that we can not?

            @ weka….commenters and comments are questioned all the time here….

            • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1.1.2.1

              ” … nobody gave me a warning ..”

              er, no:

              Open mike 12/11/2013

              • weka

                Bit subtle that TRP.

              • Muzza

                Voice, that’s sad bro, weak, like the All Whites defensive tactics.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Weak, muzza? I was pointing out that Chooky was warned, by 3 different commenters. The weakness may be in your head.

                  • Muzza

                    You pointed out some words, which did not equal any such thing you claim.

                    You’re not a mod/enforcer of this site are you ? Or did your guest post (hat tip), elevate your status ?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Is English not your first language, muz? Or is it dyslexia that holds back your comprehension?

                    • Muzza

                      No warning there bro, nor anything which you need to busy yourself with!

                      But you chose to. . .

                    • weka

                      FFS, do we really have to have a sullen kids fighting in the sandpit derail so early in the day?

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Good call, weka.

                    • Muzza

                      Weka, run along silly

                      Voice involved himself , I then chose to do the same as a counter to his comments which I found to be out of place, now you’re in on it too.

                      I’ll leave the pseudo moderation and sense of self importance to you non mods.

                    • weka

                      🙂 (at TRP)

                      You just carry on muzza, doing whatever you want irrespective of how it affects other people.

                    • Chooky

                      thnax for the support Muzza( bro?)….unfortanately I had to dash away after my comments…(some of us cant sit at the computer arguing all day)

                      1)….interesting that no one has really addressed the arguments I made above about the mega brothel in the heart of Auckland ( are we heading for a Bangkok of the South Pacific?)…the arguments I made strike me as being inherently feminist and working class arguments against capitalist farming women for sex and profit ..(.cf farming cows for milk and profit )…. for fucks sake women should be in charge of their own work , means of production, money making business …if that is the way they choose to go…I am sure Marx would agree)

                      2)….interesting too that Te Reo Putake has taken such exception to what I say and wants to shut me up ( 3 different commenters have warned me apparently …ha ha……well i am not sure who they are either.. )

                      …although Bill Drees once before told me to get off ‘the standard’…. .indicating I was not up to standard so to speak….and he keeps saying William Massey …would “smile” at me from his grave and “loves” me….not sure why…and whether this is a compliment?….can someone elucidate muggins me ?

                      …Actually from the grave ….I am sure my Father would be smiling at me approvingly ….he was at various times during his life a railway worker, truck driver, freezing worker , fisherman and farmer…….and he voted Labour all his life and then the Alliance….. My Mother has always voted Labour…I have voted Labour( even worked for Labour) , NZF, Green …and increasingly Mana is looking attractive

                      Which way do you vote Muzza?…or is that too intrusive a question?

                • worst coaching ever. 🙁

  3. BLiP 5

    The internet is now weaponised . . .

    . . . The internet backbone — the infrastructure of networks upon which internet traffic travels — went from being a passive infrastructure for communication to an active weapon for attacks.

    According to revelations about the QUANTUM program, the NSA can “shoot” (their words) an exploit at any target it desires as his or her traffic passes across the backbone. It appears that the NSA and GCHQ were the first to turn the internet backbone into a weapon; absent Snowdens of their own, other countries may do the same and then say, “It wasn’t us. And even if it was, you started it.”

    If the NSA can hack Petrobras, the Russians can justify attacking Exxon/Mobil. If GCHQ can hack Belgicom to enable covert wiretaps, France can do the same to AT&T. If the Canadians target the Brazilian Ministry of Mines and Energy, the Chinese can target the U.S. Department of the Interior. We now live in a world where, if we are lucky, our attackers may be every country our traffic passes through except our own . . .

  4. Puckish Rogue 6

    https://wikileaks.org/tpp/

    So one good thing thats come out is this shows Nationals opposing major parts TPP including fighting for Pharmac

    Good eh 🙂

    • miravox 6.1

      It remains to be seen if the NAct part of National will trample all over the negotiators to get the December agreement. It seems unlikely to work though – there’s far too much dissent now in the U.S. for it to get through congress even if an agreement was reached.

      I reckon the people that are going to lose face when it falls over are working out around about now how to frame the news that it’s all been a waste of time and money.

  5. Colonial Viper 7

    Guy Fawkes Million Mask March

    Never saw much coverage of this anywhere…

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/protesters-gather-million-mask-march

    And good old RT

    As a general rule, state-run and corporate mainstream media networks will only allocate coverage to certain demonstrations, namely those that are aligned with either state-sanctioned political parties or advocacy groups.

    Anything else outside of that is normally swept under the control desk. The amnesty-immigration rally that took place on the National Mall in Washington DC during the government shutdown was given prime time by the media because it promoted a political party agenda. This is the globalist, corporatist way of keeping control over “consensus reality” regarding dissident movements. In other words: if it’s not on the BBC, or CNN, then it didn’t really happen.

    That old stratagem of control is becoming less and less effective as word of mouth has also become globalized.

    Despite the media blackout, this one was still hard to miss – an international Million Mask March organized by demonstrators around the globe and fronted by the hackivist confab known as Anonymous.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/million-mask-march-media-436/

  6. weka 8

    On Friday, it’s #IAmSomeone Day across NZ (but hey, the world can join in too). The idea is simple, you tweet, facebook, instagram, tumblr, Google+ (I’m not sure, is it a thing? Do people even use it?) etc your experiences of sexual violence. Be it personal or friends & family (respect people’s privacy obviously). Whether it’s near misses, feeling threatened, the attitudes of people in your community or personal experiences.

    Rape culture is news to some, but so many have experienced it for so long. It’s time to add some human faces to the commentary to show how wide spread this hideous phenomena is.

    @NZSexism, the NZ branch of Everyday Sexism will be RTing everything using that hashtag, so follow them to see what others are saying. If you like the idea of documenting sexism- check out the Everyday Sexism project, which has had huge success doing exactly that.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/11/14/iamsomeone-this-friday/

    Karol, any chance this could to up as a dedicated post tomorrow, and then standardistas can share in once place on the standard?

    • karol 8.1

      Hmmm… have a load of stuff to attend to today and first thing tomorrow. Will look at it later, weka.

    • King Kong 8.3

      I hate to point this out, but do the organisers realise that they are just about to compile some sick fucks ultimate beat off material.

      • weka 8.3.1

        Fuck off you complete and utter imbecile.

        • greywarbler 8.3.1.1

          There seem to be a number of RW trolls that are just making short contentious comments, not adding anything factual or thoughtful. Is this going to be a trend as we come closer to the election? And is there a possibility of time out for them to give someone who cares and thinks more scope to get through the bumf? Cluster flies is an insect name that would fit them. Also there is a big fly, bumble bee like that has a noisy whine that comes to mind.

          • Anne 8.3.1.1.1

            Agree greywarbler.

            Distract and distort seems to be the (Key) intention. Word has gone down the line to follow your leader and start now because the campaign is underway. It’s going to double, treble, quadruple next year and people with something worthy to contribute will become fed up with their comments continuously being misrepresented/distorted and they will go away. It happened on Red Alert and the moderators did nothing for too long. By the time they acted it was too late… many commentators had departed the scene. (Yes, there were other reasons too but that was a significant one.)

            • greywarbler 8.3.1.1.1.1

              Anne
              I looked at the posters this morning and many were what seem like RW trolls. I don’t want the discourse to be dominated by RW or rape either. But I want something done to prevent the deterioration of safety for women, and men, too, and thinking how we can set about police improvements.

              But Rw trolls are of limited good, ie they can sometimes bring up points that need looking at. But ultimately sincerity of purpose is what is needed. RWs are sincerely uncaring in a concrete mindset. And those two aspects make them barriers to discussion. That’s my observation. We will only get sidetracked in the limited time we have for communication here if we allow these mosquitoes. Have to swat them. When mosquitoes have been at you for a while and you actually get them, they can leave blood marks on the wall! It must not come to that!!

      • amirite 8.3.2

        Sick fucks like yourself, King Kong?

      • Rogue Trooper 8.3.3

        Beat it then.

      • Copperhead 8.3.4

        After reading some of the page, I couldn’t handle reading much more, because it makes me ashamed to be a Kiwi male, coming back to the Standard and reading your comment makes me realize how prevalent the attitude in NZ really is. Thank you for your insight into the lower common denominator of a kiwi male mind, you truly did just go full retard.

        • King Kong 8.3.4.1

          Make sure you give yourself a bit of a fan with your hanky to stop you from fainting.

          • Copperhead 8.3.4.1.1

            You really are a sick individual KK, you must be a Slater.

            • weka 8.3.4.1.1.1

              That’s KK practicing rape culture. That there will be women who have been raped reading this thread, and some of whom will be triggered by what KK wrote, is immaterial to him, because it’s all about him and what he wants.

  7. greywarbler 9

    I wonder why I can’t get on to The Standard page without going through google? Is my old computer too slow perhaps? Any ideas please.

    • weka 9.1

      what happens if you click on this link?

      http://thestandard.org.nz

      • greywarbler 9.1.1

        Works fine right now. I don’t understand. Is it a time of day thing? Sun spots. Perhaps it’s the planets and satellites casting a shadow on me. Somebody is. I’m being…paranoid.

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

          Intelligence agency “man in the middle” internet attacks mimic other websites

          To trick targets into visiting a FoxAcid server, the NSA relies on its secret partnerships with US telecoms companies. As part of the Turmoil system, the NSA places secret servers, codenamed Quantum, at key places on the internet backbone. This placement ensures that they can react faster than other websites can. By exploiting that speed difference, these servers can impersonate a visited website to the target before the legitimate website can respond, thereby tricking the target’s browser to visit a Foxacid server.

          http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131004/10522324753/

        • weka 9.1.1.2

          Grey, when you said before that you could only access via google, what else did you try? eg where you typing the URL in manually? Or using a bookmark? Or what?

          • greywarbler 9.1.1.2.1

            Well I had always done it one way and then for a while it has been hard to get in. Not a real clued up type! Anyway what I do is put ‘th; in the address bar, and that brings up a window which includes the standard.org/home and I click on that. I don’t know if it gets up quicker if it doesn’t have home on. Thanks for trying to help weka. I’ll check about the URL.

            • weka 9.1.1.2.1.1

              Interesting, that’s similar to what I do. If I put ‘t’ in the address bar, Firefox fills in thestandard.org.nz/ for me. It might be worth doing it manually for a while to see if you can get rid of the home bit. You could try clearing your history too. Or create a bookmark and use that for a while.

  8. greywarbler 10

    I found a piece in the Dom Post Tues 12/1//13 – a feature on sex assaults and their aftermath by GP Cathy Stephenson and tried to get a digital fix on it. But can’t. There are listings for 2012 on her pieces, on google there are listings about calcium intake from past years.

    But it is like Stuff don’t want people to have access to anything they published yesterday or yesteryear. They show archives but they don’t give a button to order by date or anything. So I just record on page A12 – Roast Busters and the frightening truth about sex assaults. Thoughtful info is needed.
    This heading opens up some items Cathy Stephenson sex assaults Dominion Post 12/11/2013
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/9396514/Editorial-Busting-the-myth-around-sex-abuse
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/9369957/Editorial-Police-should-have-stopped-Roast-Busters
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/9375332/Editorial-Police-risk-loss-of-faith

    Especially when I read the heading for this – http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9397461/Rape-victim-could-have-closed-legs-says-lawyer

  9. greywarbler 11

    I think our hospitals DHBs and health system are hotting up for some torrid arguments pre election. They are severely under stress. Comment has had it that Tony Ryall has done a good job of keeping the lid on everything. But for how long.
    Here’s a bit already http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wairarapa/9398137/Loss-of-chairman-dismays-board

    • Rogue Trooper 11.1

      yes, hips and knees are on the chopping board at our DHB (and the inside line is that there are stealthy cuts being carried out on all limbs.). Furthermore, few GPs are willing to offer after hours service, resulting in ED being loaded with less acute patients. One suggestion is to place a GP at ED but the sawbones are dragging their brogues on that one, so far.

      • greywarbler 11.1.1

        I don’t know how many sawbones get into the decision making process. Local health board seems to have the long-term people with nice faces, and a little understanding of health, and a steady hand on the wheel re-elected. Not inspiring if looking for people to cut through the daily agenda to get a periscope view of direction and method of getting somewhere.

  10. Puckish Rogue 12

    So is there anyone on here that thinks Clare Curran should still be in parliament?

    – “Ms Curran’s comments about both my production company and me are untrue and have damaged my professional reputation both presently and in the future. The statements made in the House could well have adversely affected both my application for the Chief Executive position at Māori Television, and also if I choose to apply for any job in the public sector in the future.

    For the record, my primary reason for leaving Television New Zealand was that I was satisfied with what I had achieved during my tenure as the General Manager of Māori and Pacific Programmes, and I was also confident that the Māori and Pacific department would be retained in the future and remain under the auspices of Television New Zealand.

    I left with a reference from the Head of News and Current Affairs at Television New Zealand. Additionally, I reject the suggestion that the Chairperson of Māori Television would have acted inappropriately in dealing with the shortlisting process. More likely the reason for my shortlisting was that I have twenty-six years of experience in the television industry, having served in various senior roles, and am one of a handful of people with the senior management experience to fill the role of Chief Executive of Māori Television. Ms Curran’s statement in relation to Te Māngai Pāho is also untrue as Te Māngai Pāho has confirmed that I have no current debt to it.”

  11. greywarbler 13

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/9398726/Cook-Strait-ferry-terminal-Ferry-stays-in-Picton
    One NACT disaster and costly mistake averted. Probably only an Act of God brought about the necessary cogitation. May lightning strike twice??? Please.

    However Transport Minister Gerry Brownlee this morning rejected the idea, saying after more analysis it was found that initial estimates of moving the port were off the mark….

    Cost savings to ferry operators from a move to Clifford Bay were significantly below the levels estimated in 2012.
    Cabinet papers on the decision released this morning showed the Clifford Bay investigation had found the Cook Strait passenger market had declined significantly in recent years and was expected to show little if any growth.

    The study pointed to increased competition from air travel and changes in travel patterns of international visitors to New Zealand. Since the decision to further investigate the possibility of a move to Clifford Bay in early November 2012 about $1.1m had been spent on the investigation.

    Soon however the rising air travel costs could improve numbers using ferry transport. And perhaps some smart customer building moves by rail like Air NZ uses, introducing incentives, reduced costs for return tickets, bring a friend half-price, spot free tickets, complimentary bag of peanuts for monkeys, etc. could make cost benefit ratios of having Picton remain as The Port with improvements, soar. My modest a/c for scenario will follow directly! Who to send it to though? I’m rough round the edges but going for less than a school commissioner @ $100ph.

  12. Pascal's bookie 14

    Jami-Lee Rossisname fella.

    Alleged rising star and Key favourite.

    Can’t even get a member’s bill passed while in govt. Hopeless.

  13. Rogue Trooper 15

    Midday Snooze
    New Salvation Army report finds that 1/3 of New Zealanders continue to struggle finding affordable, secure housing, particularly the young, and low-income Baby Boomers (this sector acknowledged as under-served by Nick Smith), while critics of this government say HNZ is not housing enough people and continue making eligibility more difficult.

    however, immunisation levels among maori, pacific, hard-to-reach and in-difficult-circumstances children have improved remarkably , thanks to predominantly general practice primary nurses.

    • Treetop 15.1

      I can’t wait to read the report. I listened to a discussion on RNZ just after 9 am on nine to noon this morning.

      Housing stock has shrunk and less people are being housed by HNZ. Affordable housing does not seem to be a priority for this government; this is disgraceful.

  14. captain hook 16

    am very disturbed to listen to the news this a.m. and hear that the national chumps lost a vote in the house last night to amend the employments contracts act and to know that it was never featured here.
    Is this just wonk politics on the standard.
    How about some real instead of the trademe opinions type drivel.

      • bad12 16.1.1

        Hook is talking of the Jamie Lee Ross private members bill that would have allowed ‘Scab Labour’ to be brought in by employers during strikes,

        Those who voted for what Labour’s Andrew Little called ‘a piece of Fascist Legislation’ were:

        National/ACT 60,

        Those against,

        Labour,Green,NZFirt,Mana,Maori, UF 60,

        The tie in the voting meant that the bill could not proceed, a well deserved slap in the face for Ross…

        • weka 16.1.1.1

          Thanks bad. I gathered that, I was just accentuating the nonsensical style of hook’s comment (along with the criticism of the being that is the standard).

    • Tiger Mountain 16.2

      Time to sling your hook perhaps, it is the Employment Relations Act, Jami-Lee Ross, was trying to repeal the section of the ERA that prohibits replacement labour (aka dirty filthy scabs) being engaged by an employer during a strike or lockout. National did not get the numbers.

      Think I agree re the Trade Me style drivel but King ‘meathead’ Kong keeps at it.

    • Tracey 16.3

      you could have written it up yourself, posted it here or submitted it as a guest post.

  15. “..Cows Are The Root Of All Evil, And We’re Too Hungry To Care..

    When put into perspective – it all makes sense:

    The rapid depletion of our resources – the assault on our bodily health – the bombardment of our olfactory senses – the planet-destroying flatulence –

    – cows must be hell-bent on our ultimate destruction.

    Or at the very least – they want us out of the way to make room for the arrival of their alien overlords.

    Either way – cows are the root of all evil.

    Let’s review the facts..”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/cows-evil_n_4220482.html

    phillip ure..

    • greywarbler 17.1

      Sounds very Gary Larson philip u.
      Give me the shotgun Martha – I’ll blast ’em.
      The country folk know how to deal with their chickens being sucked up by spaceships – ‘Theer go them dem aliens stealing our chickens agin’. Cows and farts will get dealt to summarily.

  16. I sometimes read the Reader report area on Stuff. It is real, often sad, and shows (I think and hope) real people dealing with the stuff they have to deal with, pretty well like the rest of us.

    I read this one and saw this

    There is one other thing that will for me be the ultimate insult.

    When I die, as with every other parent who has lost a child, those children will not appear on our death certificates.

    As if they didn’t exist.

    Is that true and why would it be like that? I just don’t get it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/blackspots-the-real-toll-of-nzs-roads/9394973/Blackspots-Losing-our-only-son

    • wtl 18.1

      I fail to see why there is any need for a list of children to appear on someone’s death certificate. The purpose of a death certificate is as an official record of someone’s death, so it is obviously important that the individual is clearly identified, by their date and place of birth, and details of their parents. The fact that a list of children do not appear on an official document issued by the government does not mean that they do not exist, it just means they are not thought to be important for the purposes of that document. You can still go ahead and list them in your memoirs or gravestone or whatever, and of course they still exist in the most important place – in our memories and the memories of others who knew them.

      • greywarbler 18.1.1

        wtl I like your recipe, just needs a twist of lemon. And your pseudo could do with a twist too – what about wtf.

      • McFlock 18.1.2

        I wasn’t aware children, living or deceased, appeared on the parent’s death certificate.

        I can see why living might be included, as a quick next-of-kin reference, but then why them but not siblings, grandkids/etc? Seems a bit arbitrary.

        Sad story though – good reminder that the road toll is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to victims of accidents.

        • Rogue Trooper 18.1.2.1

          the roads are are freakin’ dangerous places National want more of.

          • marty mars 18.1.2.1.1

            Very dangerous places indeed.

            Sure re the death cert thingy but if they are putting children on then children that have died are still their children – but really just sad all around.

        • wtl 18.1.2.2

          I wasn’t aware children, living or deceased, appeared on the parent’s death certificate.

          They’re aren’t, as far as I know. I was just pointing out that although the bereaved parents in the Stuff article would like them to be, it isn’t really necessary.

  17. gobsmacked 19

    Jonathan Coleman has just lied to Parliament. Straight out, blatant lie … claiming he doesn’t know who was Prime Minister in 2009.

    No, I am not making this up (but Coleman was …).

    At least the Labour/Green/Winston team were onto it today. Better.

    Privileges committee?

    • gobsmacked 19.1

      To any oppostion MPs reading – is it time for a smart protest?

      Smart doesn’t mean losing temper and huffy walkout – that only backfires.

      Smart means e.g. EVERY question is the same – “Who was PM in 2009”? Continue until answered.

      (oh and to Wayne Mapp, who likes to talk about decent behaviour on here … tell us how proud you are of Coleman. Go on).

      “Does PM have confidence in Coleman?” etc. etc.

      Table photos of suicide bomber victims, a hundred times. Change the game plan.

      Come on guys, brainstorm, pick a novel idea and go for it. Parlaament is already held in contempt.

      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        Might still be a couple of spare desks in the leaders office…

        • King Kong 19.1.1.1

          Yes there is. They fired Jenny Michie (can’t remember what it was. Homophobia or racism, one of the two) and apparently I have heard they are about to cut ties with some Asian goofball…oops

          • Colonial Viper 19.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, Curran is still working on that one.

            • King Kong 19.1.1.1.1.1

              Really? Why don’t you just “Shearer” her. It worked once it can work again.

              • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                I wonder what makes someone want to publicly present themselves as a delusional oversized monkey? The right wing sure have some high calibre support……I guess that’s the best they can achieve…

                • King Kong

                  Probably the same reason that someone would present themselves as a non existent cat or a spaceship from a sci fi series or…

                  Didn’t really think that pot shot through, did you?

                  • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                    ..not a delusional cat or spaceship though

                    and no, your response was terribly predictable…

                    I would be happy if you got banned for a while from your comments on this open mike.

                    Lift your game delusional monkey-brainless one.

                    Check out comment 22 below. Wise words I thought

  18. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 21

    You can put a virtual banner on a virtual beach to in support of the 23 November demonstration against deep-oil sea drilling.

    There are some pretty amusing banners

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 21.1

      …its not letting me edit: ‘to support the demonstration’ (corrected from ‘in to support…’)

  19. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 22

    “I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. ”

    John Stuart Mill, in a Parliamentary debate with the Conservative MP, John Pakington (May 31, 1866);

  20. BLiP 23

    R . E . T . R . O . S . P . E . C . T . I . V . E .!!!111!!! legislation designed to punish those who held their elected representatives to account.

  21. rhinocrates 24

    MAN WINS LOTTO THROUGH HARD WORK, GOOD LOOKS

    Today, it was announced by the Ministry of Fair Goes that a man has become rich through winning Lotto.

    “We are particularly proud that a man has won millions of dollars by buying a Lotto ticket and that he looks good on television”, said a spokespeoploid, Camille Simulacrum today.

    The winner, Brian Noman, who has stunning blonde hair that doesn’t look like a wig at all and a fantastic moustache modelled on those of porn stars, said, “It was a hard selecting each number, but I was able to struggle through adversity to reach my goal of filling out my card. I know that life is a gamble, but I am absolutely delighted that random chance recognised the inherent excellence of my choices and rewarded me as I deserve.”

    Edna Wibble, speaking for the Ministry of Fair Goes announced that this once again demonstrates the fairness of the market. “Random chance always reveals deserving talent, as my own relationship with the minister enabled my talent to be recognised.”

    Pry Minshuh, Jun Kee, is said to be relashed.

    Mr Noman is 93.

  22. Morrissey 25

    Surprise, surprise (not): Susan Baldacci hasn’t read Orwell;
    And Steve McCabe dishes out a scolding to Jim Mora

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Thursday 14 November 2013
    Jim Mora, Vicky Hyde, Steve McCabe

    Most of the pre-show today was uneventful. But then this awkward little exposé occurred….

    JIM MORA: All right, what else have you got?

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Well, the Conservative Party has attempted to delete all its speeches and press releases online from the past ten years, including one in which David Cameron promises to use the internet to make politicians “more accountable”.

    MORA: Oh yes? Ha ha ha ha!

    SUSAN BALDACCI: They have deleted the backlog of speeches from the party’s main website and from the Internet Archive between 2000 and May 2010. [1]

    STEVE McCABE: That was Winston Smith’s job!

    …..[Awkward, confused silence]…..

    STEVE McCABE: In Nineteen Eighty-Four.

    …..[More bewildered silence]…..

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Oooooooh. Spooky. I’m sure they won’t be able to get away with this, though….

    The advent of the 4 o’clock time signal saved Ms. Baldacci from any further mortification. After the news, the first discussion was about the Government’s decision to keep the inter-island ferry terminal at Picton, and not to move it to Clifford Bay. The expert “talent” brought on to the Panel is, as so often, another regular Panelist—in this case Bernard Hickey, the owner of the interest.com website. Hickey spoke wistfully of how the Chinese regime just goes ahead and builds whatever it wants, and worries about cleaning up the mess afterwards. This admiration for Chinese dictatorship, and the impatience with democracy, is a common theme with business and right wing politicians, as is what Jim Mora had to say: something inane and approving about the way Margaret Thatcher got things done.

    Vicky Hyde and Steve McCabe let Hickey’s expression of support for Chinese dictatorship go unchallenged, but the Manchester-raised McCabe was clearly irritated by Mora’s advocacy of Pol Pot’s and Pinochet’s English girlfriend [2]….

    STEVE McCABE: Jim, you mentioned Margaret Thatcher. I think that is unwise, especially when talking to someone like me from the north of England. Her attacks on public life were ideologically based; her decisions to sell off and privatize public assets was not based on rigorous analysis, it was ideologically driven.

    MORA: Well, that’s quite enough about Clifford Bay for today….

    And that was that. Mora refused to engage in discussion, and another chance for interesting debate was stymied. The decline of this program seems to be terminal.

    [1] http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/521988/20131113/conservative-party-delete-speeches-internet-remove-tory.htm
    [2] http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-thatcher-helped-pol-pot

    • greywarbler 25.1

      Imperator Fish recommends replacing Mora with JT and WJ, in short.

      • Morrissey 25.1.1

        That’s very interesting, considering that Imperator Fish is himself a regular guest on the Panel.

        Willie and JT leaving Radio Vile’s early afternoon slot to move to The Panel would increase the IQ level of both programs.

  23. ScottGN 26

    Iain Lees-Galloway’s Private Member’s Bill the ‘Electoral (Adjustment of Thresholds) Amendment Bill’ has been drawn from the ballot. Timely.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9400901/Electoral-threshold-bill-drawn

  24. Te Reo Putake 27

    Roy Morgan out, Nats edge ahead, sort of.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5299-new-zealand-voting-intention-november-14-201311140325

    NZF on 5% still in the box seat, Crazy Craig drops to bugger all.

    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      “Labour’s controversial policy to increase female representation in the Parliamentary Labour Party appears to have driven men away from Labour and across to National in large numbers over the past fortnight. Driving the increase in support for National was a large jump in support by men, who this week deserted Labour. New Zealand men now clearly favour National (50.5%, up 10%) over Labour (29%, down 5.5%) while female support was down for both of the major parties – National (41%, down 2.5%) and Labour (35%, down 2%).

      That’s pretty much the immediate political result I expected from the gender quota stuff: men didn’t like it and women didn’t care for it.

      • karol 27.1.1

        How do they know that was the reason for a very slight, margin of error shift?

        • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1

          When I said “women don’t care for it” I mean that there was zero increase in support from women for Labour which would have been nice to offset the large (well above margin of error) drop in male support for Labour.

          Also it appears that previously “don’t know” males have now swung strongly to National.

          • Lanthanide 27.1.1.1.1

            This largely skewers Lynn’s contention that polls lag political events by 4-6 weeks.

            • karol 27.1.1.1.1.1

              Lynn still might be correct. It is only an assumption by RM based on circumstantial evidence.

              • Lanthanide

                True, unless they actually asked why they were voting for the party or if they had changed their vote, we can’t know for sure.

                But it is pretty compelling.

                • lprent

                  From memory the quota stuff was coming out again in the MSM about 4-6 weeks ago. It was in the briefing docs available on web about then for the upcoming conference.

                  FFS.. This is about shifting from 41% of the caucus to 45% this election and to 50% in 2016. It isn’t the frigging National party where they tend to drag any half trained woman in (Tolley, Wilkinson, Collins etc – and those are the known ones) and drop them way past their skills. Bennett is merely a skilled arsehole – which tends to make her fit in pretty well.

                  But the attrition rate amongst National’s women is why they remain trying to get above a quarter of the caucus being XX. It isn’t that they don’t have competent women to call upon (I know quite a few who lean right). It is simply that National are the worst party to be a women in. Even NZ First is better and that is one boys club…

                  BTW: figure it out the way I tend to. We get a poll result now. They finished collecting data about a week ago. The sample period is usually about 2 weeks. If something happens during that two weeks the effect is diluted. It takes a few weeks for most things to circulate quite a bit anyway..

                  It isn’t that it takes 4-6 weeks to penetrate. It is that it takes at least 3 weeks for the results to process.

        • Te Reo Putake 27.1.1.2

          They seem to have asked a supplementary question, Karol:

          “New Zealand men now clearly favour National (50.5%, up 10%) over Labour (29%, down 5.5%) while female support was down for both of the major parties – National (41%, down 2.5%) and Labour (35%, down 2%).”

          • weka 27.1.1.2.1

            That’s not a question about Labour’s policy.

          • karol 27.1.1.2.2

            That just looks like a gender breakdown of party preferences – ie a question would have been: “Are you male or female?” And that would have been correlated with party preference.

            • Tat Loo (CV) 27.1.1.2.2.1

              Its not a correlation. A correlation is an inference between two variables. What we have here is the direct statistic. Male support for Labour fell significantly while male support for National increased by a quarter.

    • weka 27.2

      In light of the nationwide conversation about misogyny in the past week, what does RM’s headline tell us?

      National Party (45.5%) now ahead of Labour/ Greens (44.5%) as Labour’s new policy on female representation drives men to support National and away from Labour

      (I haven’t looked yet, but I am assuming that RM made that up that rather than polling a question on Labour policy)

      Edit: just seen CV’s comment above. A few RM assumptions in there. How do they know that there is a direct transfer of vote from Labour to National? Do they ask that in the poll?

      • Colonial Viper 27.2.1

        Edit: just seen CV’s comment above. A few RM assumptions in there. How do they know that there is a direct transfer of vote from Labour to National? Do they ask that in the poll?

        Some of the male vote going to National will be from previously undecided men who were on the sidelines and have now decided against voting Labour. Others will be from Labour’s male vote walking and dropping from 34.5% to 29.0%

        NAT increase from 40.5% of men to 50.5% of men in one poll is massively over the margin of error and indicates a substantial and rapid shift in support, with zero corresponding increase in support for Labour by females.

        • weka 27.2.1.1

          “NAT increase from 40.5% of men to 50.5% of men in one poll is massively over the margin of error”

          And what does this tell us at a time where Labour is being asked to stay true to its values?

          btw, “If a National Election were held now the latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows that the result would be too close to call.”

          • Colonial Viper 27.2.1.1.1

            And what does this tell us at a time where Labour is being asked to stay true to its values?

            Asked by whom exactly?

            btw, “If a National Election were held now the latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows that the result would be too close to call.”

            Indeed. Going from a clear win for LAB/GR to too close to call in a very short timeframe.

            Without the shift in male support, the NATs would have barely made 40.0%.

            Ah well.

        • karol 27.2.1.2

          Greens are very happy with their rise to 12.5%

          I’d wait and see the longer term impact re gender policies on Labour.

          But really, the Nats always have been the menz party, IMO.

        • BM 27.2.1.3

          Man ban doesn’t go down well with the lads.
          Color me surprised.

          • Colonial Viper 27.2.1.3.1

            I was surprised that women didn’t swing support behind Labour for the policy at all.

            • BM 27.2.1.3.1.1

              Women aren’t that one dimensional.

            • karol 27.2.1.3.1.2

              I’m surprised there would be a significant shift on the basis of that gender remit. Seems relatively insignificant with all the other stuff going on.

              • BM

                It’s all about issues that people can relate to.

                Politics 101.

                • karol

                  Well, if guys are shifted in their views by that issue…. then they are as much the problem as the Labour Party. It means any attempt to be more equal meets with their resistance.

                  • Jimmie

                    Don’t forget Karol that in politics the truism is the same as retail business: The customer (voter) is always right.

                    If Labour has lost support because of their equality quota then they need to consider whether they wish to continue with the quota and risk losing that support permanently.

                    • karol

                      Jimmie, that is not how I see politics. To me your prescription is very much of the neoliberal era.

                      For me it’s about principles and related policies. Tell me what you stand for, and I’ll decide whether or not to vote for you. If the people standing don’t get my vote, I’ll be putting on pressure for different people.

                      What you are talking about is the professionalisation of politics. And it’s become so insincere, treated like a game (too much poll watching), and like a marketable “business” (or brand), that many have lost interest.

                      I say, bring back a bit of conviction politics. Sometimes politicians should lead on principle, and then do their best to convince the public why they should vote for the principles.

                • bad12

                  i hate to agree with BM, but for different reasons i think for once ‘it’ is correct…

              • Francis

                I think it’s not so much to do with the policy itself, more to do with voters (particularly male) getting pissed off with Labour getting distracted on issues like gender balance, rather than focusing on things that are more important.

                As someone who’s actually looked into the conference, I do know it was only a small matter compared to the other things which went through (such as the TPPA, KiwiAssure, Housing, etc), but as usual, the media picked up on that one issue and spun it out of proportion.

                I don’t believe that this will affect Labour by much in the long term, and I’m glad the issue has been dealt with now rather than coming up in election year (though there still is a possibility of the media raising it again). Once more important issues spring up, I’m sure that will change.

                It’s good to see that some of the more controversial policies (particularly the socially liberal ones) are being sidelined for now. Labour needs to be focused on it’s core policies, particularly supporting workers, if it’s to win the next election. If it’s seen to be too focused on other issues, the non-voters they’re trying to attract will not vote for them (nor even the swing voters).

        • karol 27.2.1.4

          The shift in undecided vote to decided was only 0.5% – is that about 5 votes?

          I really think there’s a load of male hysteria here – being led and whipped up by RM.

          Let’s see what happens in the next couple of polls.

          • Colonial Viper 27.2.1.4.1

            The shift in undecided vote to decided was only 0.5% – is that about 5 votes?

            Question karol:

            5,000 people left the hall, while 4,995 people arrived.

            Did only 5 people move?

            • karol 27.2.1.4.1.1

              Eh? 5 people seem to have appeared from nowhere.

              Is it the same 5 people?

              PS: I should have said it’s only 5 of the sample – the bigger the sample, the more likely to be representative. Such a small number of people are a lot to hinge evidence of significant change on.

              • Colonial Viper

                For sure. It’s the 10% jump in male support for National with 5.5% loss in male support for Labour which are the truly significant results.

                You might also say that the absolute lack of additional support from women for Labour (actually it’s a drop but within the margin of error) is also a significant result.

                • karol

                  Again, it seems a bit sudden to me to be taken too seriously, Because, overall, while there may be that gender shift, overall the relative support for each party hasn’t changed that much.

          • Colonial Viper 27.2.1.4.2

            I really think there’s a load of male hysteria here –

            That’s really a fascinating comment.

            • chris73 27.2.1.4.2.1

              Its an interesting poll coming from roy morgan, its almost as if voters don’t like gender quotas but that can’t be right

              • Francis

                Not necessarily, it’s probably more that the issue has been really spun up by the media. The previous policy, which allowed electorate seats to become “female-only”, is the one which a lot of people didn’t like (understandably too. I agree that it’s a rather bad idea).

                This one only places a quota on female candidates on the list (which is already at around 41%), though it’s been spun to be exactly the same as the previous policy.

  25. bad12 28

    A question for Karol, in brief what did you learn from the Labour Party conference that you agreed with to a point you ‘might’ vote for that Party besides the ‘gender equality’ of the party’s Parliamentary wing set down to be the norm into the future…

    • karol 28.1

      I think aiming for a reasonable gender equality is good. Quotas have their place, but I’m more interested in seeing a shift away from the dominance of masculine values/culture in the Labour Party and it’s priorities. And, related to that, I’d like to see more positive support for beneficiaries and those struggling on low incomes (women over-represented in that section of society).

      – they are missing a policy to increase state housing, community housing and safe and affordable rentals.More needed on regaining state assets.

      I agree with their focus on regional development, employment legislation that improves the lot of workers, supporting NZ enterprises and investments in NZ, R&D…. some other stuff I can’t think of right now … oh, pleased to see no guarantees on Sky City compensation. Pleased to see Cunliffe unhappy on the leaked wikileaks TPP info. Glad to see they will do away with Charter schools.

      Would like a slightly stronger guarantee on repealing GCSB legislation. Mostly OK with them on education – would like to see stronger policies to return to ACC as was meant, and the health system. And would like to see re-strengthening local authorities as community entities.

      PS; Will still vote Green on the stuff at the top of this list.

      • bad12 28.1.1

        The jump in the Green Party vote and the dip in the Labour Party vote say that except for the core of the Party ‘Nothing’ of any import came out of the Labour Conference,

        A ‘RED” Labour Party with David Cunliffe as the Leader???lets paint the town, but there wont be any more bread nor butter on the table afterwards, that’s what i gather from the recent Conference, and ‘Nothing’ delivered in a gender balanced way still equates for those most in need to ‘Nothing’…

      • Lanthanide 28.1.2

        Personally I think calling what Labour are aiming for a “quota” is a bit overstating it.

        The man ban in electorates definitely would be a quota. But they aren’t aiming for that (as far as I know? haven’t followed this closely so could be wrong), they’ve just set aims for where they want their MP balance to be, which can be pretty easily achieved in the list rankings I would have thought, without it being a ‘quota’.

        • karol 28.1.2.1

          Yes. I agree. The aim was for a reasonable gender balance, but quotas weren’t talked about as some strict option. Also, i didn’t think it got so much media attention, especially negative media attention, for it to have had a significant influence on voting preferences.

          • Tat Loo (CV) 28.1.2.1.1

            To be clear, the “reasonable gender balance” you mention is the capping of likely male participation in caucus by 2017 at a maximum of 50%, with no similar limit placed on the likely proportion of women in caucus.

            if the wording were reversed to limit female participation in caucus, I would regard it as a clearly sexist and gender unbalanced rule.

            • Tracey 28.1.2.1.1.1

              Surely they have made a policy to aim for 50% female representation in parliament. By stating an aim it behooves them to actually do stuff to achieve it. THAT is the point, imo.

              Unlike the Nats and supporters like BM who like to believe that everyone is equal now and the “best person” already has the job and so nothing is required to even up representation.

              • Tat Loo (CV)

                more accurately, the policy is minimum 50% female participation and maximum 50% male participation in caucus. If the wording were reversed, I would say that the wording was sexist and inequitable.

  26. xtasy 29

    This should perhaps really go onto weekend social, but I wish to present links to some excellent musica Chilena:

    The Chilean people endured much after the Pinochet coup in 1973, and they fought long to regain some democratic rights, which are still compromised by the powers in control, that favour such as present President Pinera, a major shareholder in Lan Chile airlines and one of the richest “pricks” in Latin America, who has his mates manipulate the population and system to serve their interests.

    Time to be alert and realise the same happens in NZ, like under John Key, the rich one that got there with connections and working the Wall Street and allied systems. Same as Pinera, and they are both “mates”, by the way!

    Stop the rot and shit to spread, take em on and challenge the rotten capitalist self serving bastards NOW!

  27. xtasy 30

    I am trying again, with useless NZ internet services making my connection crash just before. This is what maybe should rather go on weekend social, but I present it today anyway. This is some choice Chilean music, that may be a bit “old” for some, but it is for that reason top and class A:

    The Chilean people endured a lot after the Pinochet led coup in 1973, and it took a long time to regain some basic democratic rights. Still now those rights are compromised by their capitalist system, which favours persons like their present president Pinera, who is a major share holder in Lan Chile, and one of the richest persons in Latin America.

    By the way, John Key is on great mates terms with him as they seem to be having similar “connections”. So Key and Pinera represent the Chicago Boy winners, those that gained from radical market “reforms” that we also saw under Roger Douglas here, but that left many behind.

    Let us not forget what all this is about, it is an attempted dictatorial rule of the rich and their mates against the rest of us. The sooner the mostly docile Kiwis realise this and wake up, and take a stand, the sooner we may have a fairer society. Best wishes for tonight, X

    • Murray Olsen 30.1

      Where did El presidente get his fortune? The megarich in Brazil got theirs through a trough filled by the military government, then filthy privatisations by the PSDB (Social democratic party of Brazil, which is like ACT with extra corruption thrown in).

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