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Open mike 14/12/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:37 am, December 14th, 2013 - 147 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

147 comments on “Open mike 14/12/2013 ”

  1. phil 1

    At what point does a country stop being a Democracy? Is such a re-definition possible in NZ? Who would describe such a change to …?

    • Paul 1.1


      An article from America that makes for an interesting comparison.

      Fascist America, in 10 easy steps
      From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all

  2. Paul 2

    The brighter future promised by Key


    “Food queues already huge, says Mission”

    “It’s about numbers being large and it’s also about people being desperate.

    “Every single person who comes through here has nowhere else to go … people have exhausted every option before they come here. Believe you me, unless you really had to, you wouldn’t do this.

    “I’m looking at our numbers and they’re higher than last year. I just think people live in chronic poverty – economic recovery is certainly not touching these people.”

    • Tigger 2.1

      But they’ll be written off as lazy. Heartbreaking.

      • karol 2.1.1

        If they are lazy, why do more people become lazy under a NAct government.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.2

        I don’t understand why the parties of the Left are not forced to commit to a policy of full employment for those 25 and under.

        Get rid of this “lazy” meme once and for all, instead of moaning about it.

  3. kinda relevant..?

    “..Death of a schoolboy: why concussion is rugby union’s dirty secret..”


    “..Behind his profoundly tragic story is another of a sport in denial –

    – where authorities at all levels dither over treating concussion –

    – while all the time, players grow stronger – heavier – and the hits get ever bigger..”

    phillip ure..

    • Lanthanide 3.1

      My BF thinks that if rugby were invented today and tried to be rolled out as a ‘sport’ in schools, it would be seen as ritualistic child abuse and wouldn’t get anywhere.

  4. Fair Observer 4

    Time for Len Brown to resign. He’s morally bankrupt after getting freebies from SkyCity and other hotels.

    Out with this corrupt mayor.

    • Te Reo Putake 4.1

      Yep. Out of the mayoralty, straight into the John Key cabinet. Oh, is that not what you meant? Fair enough, he’s really not in the league of the real crooks, is he?

    • gobsmacked 4.2

      He’s morally bankrupt after getting freebies from SkyCity and other hotels.

      Just to be clear, are you saying that all who do this should resign?

      I’m with you, but are you with you?

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3

      Time for John Key and the rest of the National Caucus to resign. They’re morally bankrupt after after lying to the citizens of NZ and giving our wealth to their cronies such as Warner Bros, Rio Tinto etc etc.

      Out with this corrupt government.

  5. Tigger 5


    Ugh, made the mistake of reading Kiwibog post about Brown and fell across this vileness. It’s about ethnic communities wanting a say on councils a la Maori.

    “This is the problem with special privileges for one race. Others then want the same.”

    Farrar isn’t stupid so I assume he does know that there is a very good reason not to treat Maori like other ‘races’,

    • Lanthanide 6.1

      She calls ‘white Jesus’ a verifiable historical figure… and then says Santa is too. So clearly she’s just lying to the audience about everything.

      • Te Reo Putake 6.1.1

        I kinda think most Fox presenters lie like they breath; it just comes natural to them. The interesting question for me would be whether she thinks modern Palestinians are white, I think she’d kinda struggle with that concept.

        • Morrissey

          I kinda think most Fox presenters lie like they breath; [sic] it just comes natural to them.

          What you have written is perfectly true, Te Reo. But it’s not just Fox News. Have you watched the BBC in the last ten years? Or CNN? Or Al Jazeera? Or Television One? Or TV3?

          Admittedly it has the most obnoxious stars (O’Reilly, Hannity, etc.) but essentially Fox differs from the rest of them because it is shriller, not because it is substantially more dishonest.

          • North

            It’s sick-making how Fux News relies so heavily on caraciture blonde bimbos…….misogyny really.

            • Morrissey

              So does Television New Zealand. What justification other than good looks is there for inflicting viewers with that grinning, nodding Thunderbird puppet Simon Dallow?

    • joe90 6.2

      Jon Stewart takes the piss out of Megyn Kelly’s white Santa Claus.

    • Rogue Trooper 6.3

      only in America…

  6. not that you’d really know it from reading our alcohol-advertising-dominated mainstream media..

    ..but uraguay fully legalised/brought in state control of cannabis..

    ..and to totally destroy the blackmarket..the countries’ president plans for the state to sell cannabis @ $1 per gram..

    ..so who is this enlightened-president..?

    ..why..!..he’s another ‘terrorist’..


    “..In the week that Uruguay legalises cannabis – the 78-year-old explains why he rejects the ‘world’s poorest president’ label.

    If anyone could claim to be leading by example in an age of austerity – it is José Mujica – Uruguay’s president –

    – who has forsworn a state palace in favour of a farmhouse –

    – donates the vast bulk of his salary to social projects –

    – flies economy class –

    – and drives an old Volkswagen Beetle.

    But the former guerrilla fighter is clearly disgruntled by those who tag him “the world’s poorest president” and –

    – much as he would like others to adopt a more sober lifestyle –

    – the 78-year-old has been in politics long enough to recognise the folly of claiming to be a model for anyone.

    “If I asked people to live as I live – they would kill me” – Mujica said – during an interview in his small but cosy one-bedroom home set amid chrysanthemum fields outside Montevideo.

    The president is a former member of the Tupamaros guerrilla group –

    – which was notorious in the early 1970s for bank robberies – kidnappings –

    – and distributing stolen food and money among the poor..”


    ..phillip ure

    • Molly 7.1

      I note his election slogan ““Un gobierno honrado, un país de primera” (An honest government, a first-class country”.

      Makes sense that as a country we are heading downhill fast…

  7. Philj 8

    Thanks for the link, Paul. I observe with interest.

  8. Dumrse 9

    Just for those that are blind and will not cross the divide….. This is on Whale Oil this morning, read it and weep.

    “Consistency would be nice.

    When National won the election on a platform including partial asset sales, the Green Taliban said that the fact National didn’t get more than 50% of the eligible vote, they didn’t have a mandate.

    Flegin, one of our commenters puts the same theory to the test on the referendum result.

    So basically going by the Green/Labour method of vote counting there is no mandate to cease asset sales as only 30% of the eligible voters are against it.

    That settles that then. Unquote.

    • gobsmacked 9.1

      the Green Taliban said that the fact National didn’t get more than 50% of the eligible vote

      Who made this statement? When?

    • Morrissey 9.2

      Your name is well chosen. Of course, the 2011 election was not about asset sales; polls show that even most National Party supporters oppose the selling off of our public assets.

      This poll is specific—and irrefutable. And it signifies doom for the National Party—as you are only too aware, in spite of your hopeful defiance.

      • Bearded Git 9.2.1

        Every single electorate in NZ voted against asset sales. Lab/Greens just need to keep repeating this.

        • Dumrse

          Fucking git is right. Focus on the big numbers nobody cares that one or two from very electorate voted. As has been repeated elsewhere, I wonder how many operations $9M would have funded, how many socialist school lunches, how many……..

          When you get to be Government, buy the fucking shares back. But them back. In the mean time, get over it Git.

          • gobsmacked

            Dumrse, you’ve been asked a simple question, above.

            Abuse is not an answer.

            • Dumrse

              Keep up with the issues gobsmacked. RN has argued for months that National has no mandate to sell assets given they polled less than 50% of eligible votes.
              Now read last nights CIR numbers and tell me RN and your man Cuntlips have an overwhelming majority of eligible voters that want sales to stop.
              Aside from that, troll Hansard yourself but here is a start….

              • Pascal's bookie

                “How can he claim a mandate to sell our assets when the majority of New Zealanders voted at the last election for parties opposed to asset sales, and the vast majority of New Zealanders continue to oppose asset sales in every poll on the issue?”

                is not the same argument as

                “National has no mandate to sell assets given they polled less than 50% of eligible votes.”

              • gobsmacked

                Oh God. Is it really possible for anyone to be that stupid?

                ELIGIBLE voters. ELIGIBLE.

                Look, Dumrse, it’s OK if you don’t know what the word ELIGIBLE means, just say so and we can talk you through it.

                If you’re a beginner at English, fair play to you for trying. It’s a difficult language to learn! Think of the words ELIGIBLE VOTERS like this …

                1) “Do”. “Can”. Not same.

                2) “Did”. “Didn’t”. Not same.

                So Russel Norman hasn’t said what you claim, but if you still don’t understand and need more help, we’re here for you.


                • weka

                  “Is it really possible for anyone to be that stupid?”

                  They’re not stupid. They’re disingenuous fucks who don’t like being shown they’re on the wrong side on this, so they’re twisting shit every chance they get.

                  • gobsmacked

                    That’s certainly true for Slater and Farrar.

                    Not so sure about their groupies like Dumrse, who can only ever copy and paste from their blog-gods. He just might believe what he writes (sorry, steals).

                  • Paul

                    What motivates them?
                    It’s not a passion for a better society.
                    Is,it simply a better world from themselves?

                    • @ paul..it’s a class-war..

                      ..based on the teachings of one ayn rand..

                      ..where the world is divided into the worthy and the unworthy..

                      ..where you give the ‘worthy’ lots..(corporate-welfare..)

                      ..and you give the ‘unworthy’ nothing..(cut welfare/support for the poorest..)

                      ..(does any of that sound familiar..?.)

                      ..this is the ideological-underpinning of what bennett/this govt is doing to the poorest/sickest/weakest..

                      ..these are the rationales they apply to justify to themselves their uncaring..

                      ..basically..they just don’t give a fuck about those one in four nz children living in poverty..

                      (and they point to rand as explanation/justification..)

                      ..this is why they do do what they do..

                      ..and why they don’t do what they don’t do..

                      ..that..and personal greed..

                      ..which dovetails nicely with the vile preachings of the rand..

                      ..phillip ure..

                  • Dumrse

                    Fucks we are then. The assets have been sold and the remainder will follow. Get the fuck over it.

                    What you can do now is plan to buy then back. PLAN TO BUY THEM BACK. You’re going to have to wait a while but at least you can start to plan. Tell Cuntlips to make the announcement next week, then your 225,000 Nats that voted NO, will switch sides to the left and you are quids in. However, don’t hold your breath waiting otherwise you will turn BLUE.

                    • gobsmacked

                      So, what you claimed in your first comment, at 9.12 am … was never said.

                      Glad we’ve cleared that up, shame it took so long.

                    • or..dmrse..

                      ..we could go with my idea of partial-nationalisation..

                      ..this is where the govt/state takes a 51% stake in crucial industries/services..

                      ..(the supermarket-duopoly/booze-pushers/gambling/oil/banking being the obvious/first to be targeted..)

                      ..those shares will be paid for by the state..(no theft..)..with the payments for those shares to be paid over a set time..(from profits/w.h.y….)

                      ..the benefits from this policy are obvious..

                      ..the common-good suddenly swings into major consideration/a factor in the actions/operations of these entities..

                      (and with the food duopoly..obesity-fighting initiatives suddenly face far less (profit-driven) obstacles from that duopoly/food-industries..(with manufacturers told..make it healthy..or we won’t buy it from you..etc etc..)

                      ..the other listed entities would also benefit from that new common-good imperative..

                      ..and of course..the beauty of this 51% partial-nationalisation plan/idea is that by leaving 49% in private-holding..

                      ..you retain the commercial/operating expertise of the existing infrastructures..

                      ..it’s basically turning the justifications for partial-privatisation upside down..

                      ..and in doing so removes most of the rightwing objections to such a schema..

                      ..what’s not to love about all that..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • McFlock

                      buy back the ones owned by people.

                      Just renationalise the ones owned by corporations or trusts.

                      “Mum and dad” investors were conned. Corporatea were looking to con.

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      appears to have already announced “Labour reserve the right to BUY BACK…”

            • Pascal's bookie

              If DPF or Whale haven’t talked about the question, Dumrse won’t have an answer. He’s not much of a thinker. This is known.

              • greywarbler

                phillip u
                If business can buy up another business using leverage, why can’t a government do that also. It doesn’t need to make big profits. DTB would say it doesn’t need to make any. But say they want to work within a price system established by the market, but drag it down a bit and then put any profit back to the government which balances that against the loan it first raised with itself until it is zero. Is that your idea? Sounds doable.

                Did you hear the guy talking about bitcoin this a.m on Radionz? Sounds like Green $ with some hard intelligence behind it, which makes it more durable than the rather bendy version that can arise out of the actions of half-economic-educated idealists who demonstrate that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And can muck up a good idea by straying from the mission and finding it hard to make a decision that is relevant to the circumstances when needed.

                • Pascal's bookie

                  As a currency bitcoin is pretty fcked tho.

                  Didn’t hear the thing this morning, but everyone talking about how it’s value is skyrocketing, therefore it’s awesome, don’t grok that what they’re looking at is deflation.

                  Holding bitcoins for the last year would have made you money; spending them, not so much.

            • Paul

              Abuse is dmrse’s concept of reasoned debate.
              He needs to educate himself on so many fronts.
              Lesson 1 Don’t rely on Rw blogs as you only Source of news.

    • Arfamo 9.3

      National should have no worries then. Except they seem a bit worried.

  9. Morrissey 10

    Impostor at Madiba memorial has a violent past and continues to offend
    So why did those Stepford South African stooges APPLAUD him?

    “Impostor at Mandela memorial has a criminal history that includes charges of murder, rape, kidnapping and theft”—Daily Mail, 13 December 2013

    The man who “led the tributes to Nelson Mandela” is a criminal who presides over a vast network of illegal kidnapping, extrajudicial executions, and torture chambers; has repeatedly endorsed criminal actions by violent gangs and militias in Palestine, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan and many other jurisdictions; and has personally participated in the traducing and persecution of dissidents, truth-tellers and journalists in his own country and overseas.

    The South African news site eNCA was able to establish these facts in less than 48 hours, posing serious questions about the security arrangements at Tuesday’s memorial and why the government failed to pick up Obama’s past.

    “During the memorial, it emerged on social media networks that Obama wasn’t a fit person to speak at Mandela’s memorial and that his words during that historic event didn’t make any sense.

    “The story went global—but Obama was portrayed as a statesman while the sign language interpreter Thamsanqa Jantjie was selected as a convenient scapegoat and relentlessly portrayed as a joke by Obama-cultists from around the world.

    Impostor waves arm in air….


  10. Morrissey 11

    “I ESTEEM Sir Geoffrey!”
    David Slack’s foolish endorsement of an infamous stooge

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 13 December 2013
    Jim Mora, David Slack, Sally Wenley

    Today’s pre-show segment with Susan Baldacci was notable for the lack of depraved Red China-style derision of government-selected victims, the lack of insultingly juvenile survey findings, and the lack of host Jim Mora saying “according to the New York Times.” The first half of the program proper was taken up with the Len Brown report; Murray McCully’s squeeze Jane Clifton even managed to be fair and reasonable in her comments. So, compared to some of the dire recent episodes of this program, things looked promising.

    After the news it was time for the “Soapbox” segment. Sally Wenley, who is a paraplegic, told a heartbreaking and infuriating story of her mistreatment at the hands of Air New Zealand. Perhaps our national carrier’s CEO should look to fixing up basic standards of service in this country rather than going on television to assure everyone that everything was fine—“no danger at all!”—during a nuclear meltdown in Fukushima.

    So far so good. But then THIS happened…..

    MORA: David Slack, what have you been thinking about?
    DAVID SLACK: Well, I want to recommend a book!
    MORA: Oh really?
    DAVID SLACK: Yes. I’ve just read Reform: A Memoir by Sir Geoffrey Palmer. He used to be my teacher. I ESTEEM him! He’s a very, uh, energetic and able and industrious person…. He’s very good at taking a complex story and telling it in a concise and clear way. …[continues vapouring on about the qualities of “Sir” Geoffrey for what seems like a very long time]…. He’s, ahhhh, he’s done a lot of good for this country and I thoroughly recommend it!

    COMING UP SOON: Why that brief encomium by David Slack was one of the stupidest, most morally bankrupt few minutes of airtime this year.

    • Paul 11.1

      The suspense…

    • Bearded Git 11.2

      Yes but David Slack is usually excellent on The Panel compared to some of the muppets that appear. And Palmer has been excellent in the media on, for instance, the ill-fated RMA reforms. (Anyone know what is happening with these?)

      • Morrissey 11.2.1

        David Slack is usually excellent on The Panel…
        True enough, but endorsing Palmer was a grave lapse in judgement.

        ….compared to some of the muppets that appear.
        That, my friend, is damning him with the faintest praise possible.

        And Palmer has been excellent in the media on, for instance, the ill-fated RMA reforms.
        Yes, he is a learned man who has done much of value for this country and written some excellent books. I’ve read them all and admired them. But the sad fact is: Palmer is a moral coward, and has been condemned by everyone who knows anything about that 2010 massacre of peace activists in international waters that he served to justify.

        • phillip ure

          @ morrissey..when i heard it i thought for sure you would react to the final piece on poverty..

          ..where any increase income solutions were swerved away from/not mentioned..

          ..and mora just let that rightwinger leslie someone-or-other bang on and on about ‘personal rsponsibility’..

          ..it was noted how this problem appeared 30 yrs ago..

          ..(duh..!..around about the time the tories/richardson ripped up the social contract..and slashed the incomes of the worst off..)

          ..but money wasn’t mentioned..

          ..i thoght it was a jaw-dropping example of what is so often wrong with that segment..

          ..mora grunted along in support of this crap..and gave the likes of slack no chance to respond..

          ..it was a long rant from this leslie..and then mora goes ‘see you all next week’..

          ..did you leave the room for that one..?

          ..phillip ure..

          • Morrissey

            ..it was a long rant from this leslie..and then mora goes ‘see you all next week’..

            ..did you leave the room for that one..?

            No, Phillip, I did not miss it—but my focus was on exposing David Slack’s slackness.

            I, like you and no doubt many others, listened in horror to that notoriously anti-welfare “libertarian” Lindsay Mitchell sounding off. I took notes, and will work it up into a presentable form. Keep watching…..

  11. aerobubble 12

    So there must be something I not getting. Chorus own the copper, Chrous will own the broadband. So Chrous can save money connecting whole streets at a time and ending copper (like freeview has terrestrial). Now Chorus is hit by low copper prices and high NZ dollar, meaning it didn’t hedge its position. So am I not getting that Chorus problems don’t stem from just poor management, and that management closeness with the government, please, can someone explain how the pricing of copper connections effect Chorus, Chorus has the contract to move to fibre, naff said. Anyone wanting just a landline just gets a fibre landline only plan for the same price. Duh.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      Because the stupid idiots aren’t taking out the copper and putting in the fibre. They’re leaving the copper in there to give people “choice” and then charging massive amounts to be connected to the fibre network. Most people will stay with the copper connection because they won’t be able to afford the inflated price for fibre.

      The whole lot has been done very badly but that’s to be expected of privatised services that have been run down to provide higher profit.

      • weka 12.1.1

        I heard the other day that the next emerging technology will use copper, so there will be another whole round of new products and shifting costs to pass onto consumers in the future.

        • infused

          No. Copper has limitations. VDSL is the best you can easily get, and you need to be close to an Exchange.

          Fibre is cheap. No idea what crap Draco is talking about.

          • Draco T Bastard

            VDSL is the best you can easily get, and you need to be close to an Exchange.

            New copper standard that makes VDSL look slow. Actually, it makes our fibre roll-out look slow. As you say though, highly limited: The drawback with G.fast is that it will only work over short distances, so 1Gbps will only be possible at distances of up to about 100 meters. The technology is being designed to work at distances up to 250 meters, though transmission speed is slower at that distace.

            Probably not worth the effort.

            No idea what crap Draco is talking about.

            The best option as far as telecommunications in NZ go was to have left it as a state monopoly. This would have had fibre being rolled out to the home as a matter of course rather than needing government to fund it. IMO, it would have started about 10 years ago. This roll-out would have been as a replacement of the copper local loop. When finished there would have been no copper left in the ground (quite literally).

            What we’ve got instead is that the fibre is being rolled out in competition with the copper network. This is going to split funding (both the copper and the fibre will need to pay for itself plus profit) making fibre far more expensive than it should be while the regulators push the price of copper down. The pushing down of the price of copper limits the income that Chorus has to invest in the fibre network.

            Contrary to ideological belief of the RWNJs in National, Act, Labour and economists, it was never going to be the private owners who paid for the investment – it was always going to be us. All that privatisation has done is allow a few people to clip the ticket while providing nothing at all.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Pushing copper technologies almost makes sense as it would be cheaper and faster to roll out than fibre because the copper is already in the ground. That said, copper deteriorates which means it’s going to need to be replaced at some point and the limitations of copper mean that it will never meet what fibre is already capable of. A lot of the copper in the ground in NZ has been there 20+ years which means that it’s due for replacement and the best option would be to replace it with fibre.

          If there’s nothing there ATM then rolling out fibre is the better option.

  12. Tracey 13

    Gerry brownlee and national hang your heads in shame. Have a read of his Christmas card to schools wishing them a merry xmas and a great 2014 fir national.

    the main diff betw asset sales ref and smacking ref is the second was hijacked by so much false and misleading information. This one was straigtforward. Anyone who accuses a party in nz of being the taliban loses all credibility for its content. Those who repeat it? The same.

  13. Sanctuary 14

    It seems to that when economists talk about “Next year an economic cracker” like Brian Gaynor has today in the Herald


    we need to pause and ask the question “for who?”

    Can you really say the economy is going to have a “cracker year” if wage growth remains stagnant, a quarter of our children remain in poverty, and no one except landlords and rentiers can afford a home in our largest city? When Gaynor talks of a cracker year, he really means “A cracker year for the 1%”.

    • aerobubble 14.1

      Justice, due process, requires that people are forced to make the choice, compensation or criminal proceedings, that’s just patently the corruption of justice.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.2

      Can you really say the economy is going to have a “cracker year” if wage growth remains stagnant, a quarter of our children remain in poverty, and no one except landlords and rentiers can afford a home in our largest city?

      No, the only thing that can be said is that the economy will continue to fail.

    • Paul 14.3

      Gaynor is in the finance industry.
      Enough said.

    • Colonial Viper 14.4

      Sanctuary. According to the RBNZ, household wealth shot up by $5B in the last quarter alone. No recession here.

  14. Pascal's bookie 15

    Why am I in moderation?

    [Akisimet has taken a disliking to you, I don’t know why … MS]

  15. Colonial Viper 16

    Record profits result from body shaming women

    As I keep saying, human culture in the west has been largely replaced by corporate culture.

    The truth is, Lululemon has chanced on one of the enduring principles of retail: there’s probably no better way for some brands to keep women as customers than to shame them. Insecurity is a big money-maker. Happy people don’t buy things.

    Previously, Wilson had said that larger sizes cost more to produce and other reports had suggested that Lululemon had hidden its larger sizes away from the sanctity of open store shelves.

    It’s a simple equation: clothes confer status, and so it helps to make people feel low-status to encourage them to buy more clothes – and to pay more for those garments…Self-loathing women are a godsend for lagging holiday sales. Retailers know those are the droids they’re looking for.


    • greywarbler 16.1

      How many women don’t wear make-up. Theatre make-up is used to enhance features so actors faces, features and expressions can be seen from a distance. Is this the same drive in the average woman on an everyday basis? If it was just part of a dress-up culture, it’s use demonstrating a time for some play and theatrics and leisure fun, that would be healthy. But not when there is a demand to constantly paint a soft mask over the face, disguising and disdaining the natural features, the real person who is both very ordinary and similarly very unique and special, yet made to be constantly aware of a standard of appearance that person’s face and figure will rarely if ever attain.

      There is a huge amount of money made by corporates playing on women’s feeling that the way they look is important in establishing their right to be present on the earth. Women must appear attractive. It is an unwritten law. And taken for granted is that ‘attractive’ rarely is just the ‘unvarnished’ appearance, the clean, ordinary, open-faced, positive and relaxed look of someone happy with themselves.

      The paint and colour merchants want to play on women’s lack of happy sense of their own worth and attractiveness. So in womens magazines the beautiful woman must be enhanced with air brushing, the woman with ‘good bones’ but a too-ordinary face has cosmetics applied to enhance her face, which isn’t acceptable as natural.

      An actress has recently been in the news for pointing out how many of her published images had been air-brushed. This was about her body shape not her face but the same oppression of anti-woman demand by shape-shifting corporates and money-chasing image controllers applies. She said look at me on this page, my legs have never been so slim, nor my hips etc. Good on her. The societal acceptance of the hegemony of this necessary enhancement of women for acceptance means that it is pervasive. You’re soaking in it.

  16. Morrissey 17

    Why does Radio NZ ask Lindsay Mitchell to comment on welfare?
    In fact, why does ANYONE ask her to comment?

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 13 December 2013
    Jim Mora, David Slack, Sally Wenley

    Part 1: http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14122013-2/#comment-744576

    Part 2 of 2…..

    DAVID SLACK: Sir Geoffrey Palmer… used to be my teacher. I esteem him. He’s a very, uh, energetic and able and industrious person…. He’s very good at taking a complex story and telling it in a concise and clear way. ……. He’s, ahhhh, he’s done a lot of good for this country and I thoroughly recommend it!

    JIM MORA: Thank you. Lindsay Mitchell with us shortly, but just before she comes on: there have been some more poverty claims today. School principals are citing deprivation in the homes. We spoke this week with Dr Elizabeth Craig who firmly opined there is real poverty. [1] What is your opinion, before we talk to Lindsay, who has been commenting on welfare for many years?

    Sally Wenley blamed the greed of landlords. David Slack climbed off the dark horse he had been riding called “Praise of Cowards” and re-mounted his normal steed, a noble animal called “Sensible and Reasonable Commentary” [That’s enough tortured racehorse metaphors.—Ed.] and argued that whatever the word we use, there are kids who are living in conditions that are not good for them. He then did something most un-Palmerish: he actually showed a bit of backbone, and chided Mora for sending him an insultingly simple-minded article about welfare that had been written by some ACT lout.

    Quite possibly the ACT halfwit had plagiarised that article from Jim’s next guest…

    JIM MORA: Lindsay Mitchell, good afternoon.
    MORA: Is it true that we have a poverty problem in New Zealand?
    LINDSAY MITCHELL: [baffled sigh to indicate great moral seriousness] I, uhhhh, we need to take a step back. ….[further pause for effect]…. Why do we have this problem? Did we have it thirty or forty years ago? ….[embarks on long and wandery discourse pretty much identical to what is inflicted on NewstalkZB listeners every weekday morning from 8:30 to noon]…. One in every five babies born in New Zealand will be on a benefit by the time they are sixteen.
    MORA: Are you saying we should address the problem of these people having children? Is that what you are saying?
    LINDSAY MITCHELL: [pause for effect] Yes. ….[pause for effect]….That is what I’m saying. ….[sigh]…. I tell my own children: “You’ve got a life! Don’t have children when you’re sixteen or seventeen!”

    This odious woman would have carried on for several hours and no doubt often does, but mercifully the strains of Carmina Burana were welling up to bid an end to her John Banks-style ranting. Anyone with an interest in monitoring extreme right wing bullshit should visit her website, which is replete with articles by such intellectual luminaries as Roger Kerr (R.I.P.), Stephen Franks and, perhaps the most damning of all, the unhinged racist—and National Party strategist—John Ansell.

    All of her commentary is shallow and extremely biased. Here, by way of example, is her most recent post, about the referendum:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “A third say YES. Good result. Probably reasonably representative. A minority of National voters didn’t want the sales. Nothing to see here. Waste of time and money.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    That is peremptory, dismissive, arrogant commentary. Remember that Lindsay Mitchell promotes herself as a “welfare commentator”. But even more lamentable than this woman’s lack of conscience and judgement is the fact that Jim Mora’s producers at Radio NZ National use her to commentate on welfare issues, just like they ask Garth “The Knife” McVicar to comment on justice issues.

    Your tax dollars at work.

    [1] http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09122013/#comment-741884

    • greywarbler 17.1

      That is peremptory, dismissive, arrogant commentary. Remember that Lindsay Mitchell promotes herself as a “welfare commentator”. But even more lamentable than this woman’s lack of conscience and judgement is the fact that Jim Mora’s producers at Radio NZ National use her to commentate on welfare issues, just like they ask Garth “The Knife” McVicar to comment on justice issues.
      Your tax dollars at work.

      That states well how many RW commentators come over. And I do not agree with the soft mattress fall-back used by Radionz when choosing who it will speak to for ‘expert, thoughtful’ opinions. Well put Morrissey.

      • Paul 17.1.1

        Libertarians 0.5% of the vote, yet numerous representatives and spokespeople on the Panel.
        Franks, Williams, Mitchell, …

    • North 17.2

      Highest points out of ten there Morrissey.

      I listened to les beaux Mitchell and Mora. I must say my spine stiffened somewhat with the business of – “Yes we should address the problem of ‘these people’ having children”.

      You fraudulent impostor of a commentator bitch !

  17. Philj 18

    It’s official, NZ is the least corrupt country in the world – Transparency International Review. Believe it or not. I don’t.

    • Morrissey 18.1

      That survey was obviously done before November 2008.

      • Draco T Bastard 18.1.1

        These days I’m wondering if they even bother with the survey because it seems like they pull the results out of their arse.

  18. Philj 19

    Lessa and Lessa from Jim Mora. ‘Afternoons’ is becoming a must to avoid. Baldacci, Mora and Co. are getting more clueless, precious, right leaning, and trivial by the week. Jim tells me he is trying to improve the program. It’s not working Jim. Wipe the slate clean and start again. RNZ is the only independent, non commercial quality broadcaster and we deserve the highest quality journalism that a frozen budget allows.

  19. Philj 20

    The Transparency review was last week. Keep your eye on the ball.

    • Morrissey 20.1

      The Transparency review was last week.
      Then somebody was telling them a whole bunch of lies.

      Keep your eye on the ball.
      I do. It’s Transparency International that seems to have problems in that direction.

  20. joe90 21

    Next up, unauthorised pigeongram interception.

    Encryption experts have complained for years that the most commonly used technology, known as A5/1, is vulnerable and have urged providers to upgrade to newer systems that are much harder to crack. Most companies worldwide have not done so, even as controversy has intensified in recent months over NSA collection of cellphone traffic, including of such world leaders as German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    The extent of the NSA’s collection of cellphone signals and its use of tools to decode encryption are not clear from a top-secret document provided by former contractor Edward Snowden. But it states that the agency “can process encrypted A5/1” even when the agency has not acquired an encryption key, which unscrambles communications so that they are readable.


  21. Philj 22

    Transparency International Review of NZ is laughable and inaccurate. But it’s all we’ve got.Bit like poverty stats, homeless stats, productivity stats, in fact, probably all Government (pseudo) stats. Basically cow crap.

  22. Tracey 24

    Did 57% in ilam vote no?

  23. rhinocrates 25

    Just had an unpleasant experience seeing how smug, complacent middle-class liberalism facilitates the far right at Public Address. Feeling somewhat disillusioned, but wiser.

    • Rogue Trooper 25.1

      “It’s just the ‘normal’ noises in there.”

      • rhinocrates 25.1.1

        I’ve discovered what middle-class liberalism means: tolerance of far rightists because “even though we might disagree with them, we need to hear them” while anyone who points out their essential evil gets “Oh dear, that’s rude, what’s for pudding?”

        • Chooky

          …this is why it is NOT advisable to have dinner with the middle- class…. ‘The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeosie ‘..if one feels like kicking around shit or having a meaningful conversation


          • Rogue Trooper

            really enjoyed that youtube link thanks Chooky ; here also is an X-Rated “political parable”.

            • greywarbler

              Thanks RT that was some film I must watch it again. Do you know if Peter Greenaway? is still making films?

              • Rogue Trooper

                cannot help there sorry, Google probably can 😀

                • rhinocrates

                  “Love” that film (quote marks because it makes me queasy – as it’s meant to). It’s an excellent political parable with the dinner party as a metaphor for discourse – ostensibly polite, but an exercise in consumption in reality. Michael Gambon and Helen Mirren, excellent!

                  AFAIK, without googling, Peter Greenaway has become pretty disillusioned with the film business and concentrates on other media such as art installations these days.

                  Ah yes, as ever, Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Greenaway

            • Chooky

              ..yes thanks…enjoyed that film too…and Peter Greenaway in general

        • North

          Sorta right there Rhino’. My experience is that good “liberal” people (voted ShonKey ’08 if not “11) who for the look of it claim to but don’t actually give a fuck about else than self really delight in the business of focusing on objection to the way a message is put across. Thus avoiding addressing the essential point. Enables them to wimp out while still masquerading as enlightened and knowing. Dumb self-satisfied high-equity or freehold in Herne Bay aging yuppie wankers !

          I have a mate 60+ alpha type who’s never invited back to some places because he’s too real. One delightful example – a guy owning and operating some light industry in East Tamaki which employs 29 Polynesians. Turns up to one of the smartest streets in Devonport in a latish model Porsche for the smartest dinner party where there are namecards at the dinner table I swear.

          In polite chatter Porsche driver proceeds to mock the “boongers” upon whom he claims to shine merely by employing them. My mate, large, fit, and pretty trim for his 60 years gives him the works about the “fuck’n pyramid you sit atop !” And “your fuck’n Porsche out there is down to those boongers mate !”.

          Well, many liberal pearls clutched and never invited back about which he’s never unpleased. I really respect that bizo in my mate whom I’ve known 50+ years. It’s real stuff and needs not an ounce of rationalisation or mitigation. Arseholes deserve to get the works !

          • rhinocrates

            Wiser and sadder to see how shallow and naive the integrity of some people is, I have to say (same to fender, below). The Goebbels wannabe Hoots has found a comfortable niche it seems.

    • fender 25.2

      Great effort by yourself and Morrissey, I’m wiser too after following that.

      “I’m closing the thread” = I’m taking my ball and going home (with Hooton)

      • rhinocrates 25.2.1

        “I’m closing the thread” = I’m taking my ball and going home (with Hooton)

        Yeah, that was pretty Cartman-like. I thought Russell was better than that but I was wrong.

        • Morrissey

          If you guys are interested, I’m preparing a film treatment of that lamentable little episode over at Public Address. I’ll post it here first. Working title: Mr Brown’s Boys.

  24. FYI – MEDIA ALERT: Penny Bright

    (You won’t read this on the Daily Blog!)

    “When is the right time to reveal an ‘inconvenient truth’ – that neo-liberal ANC President Nelson Mandela championed ‘privatisation’ – not ‘nationalisation’?

    It seems that locally, nationally and internationally, people are largely unaware of this following quote from ANC President Nelson Mandela? :

    “Privatisation is the fundamental policy of the ANC, and is going to be implemented …Just because we [government and COSATU] have a working relationship, and they [COSATU] helped put us in power, does not mean that we are happy with everything they say.’ 49

    49 Sunday Times, 26 May 1996.

    (COSATU – Congress of South African Trade Unions)

    How many people know that in 1994, millions of black South Africans voted for the ANC, which swept into power on the following promises / policies:

    “The ANC’s 1994 national election campaign was not only premised on delivering democracy and freedom to the citizens of South Africa but was also strongly rooted in the memory of apartheid’s denial of basic resources to black people.

    Riding on the crest of the Reconstruction and Development Programme (the ANC’s proposed economic plan for the post-liberation era based on redistribution of the country’s wealth to the poor), the ANC promised to right the wrongs of the past and to give the people what had long been denied them.

    Election posters blazing with the black green and gold party colours screamed out to the poor:

    “A better life for all!”, “Free basic services!”. “Jobs for all!”,

    with a promise to redistribute the wealth accumulated by the apartheid government, white business and the white population.

    The poor, trusting the rhetoric, voted in their millions to put the ANC into power as the first democratic government.

    When the ANC capitulated to the charms of a market-driven economy, the party ditched clauses from the Freedom Charter and the RDP and emerged with a macro-economic policy that was a ‘fairly standard neoliberal one”. 1

    [1 Adam Habib and Vishnu Padaychee (2000), “Economic Policy and Power Relations in South Africa’s Transition to Democracy” in World Development, (vol.28, no.2)3. ]

    The choice of a market-driven policy that would ensure maximum profit accumulation by the already rich was made in full knowledge of South Africa’s stratified economy. …. ”

    Saranel Benjamin, Durban, September 2005]

    But, on the watch of President Nelson Mandela, without consultation or democratic mandate, there was a 180 degree ‘U turn’, when the ANC adopted a neo-liberal agenda:


    Michael J. Meyer
    (Department of Development Studies, University of North West)

    1. Introduction

    Mindful of the experience in the Third World in general, and Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA)in particular, where in some instances the privatisation of state assets was turned into a farce because of corruption, nepotism patronage and insider dealing, in South Africa (SA) the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) insisted from the outset that the privatisation process is shrouded in secrecy and should be made transparent.

    As a consequence COSATU objected to the African National Congress’s (ANC) adoption of a privatisation policy at its December 1994 Conference, which was endorsed without any form of consultation with the labour movement -the ANC’s strongest social partner.’ In order to forestall any unilateral action on the part of the ANC the labour movement insisted on participation and transparency, calling on the ANC to be accountable, not only to its allies but also the masses on any decision taken on the issue of privatisation.

    1 COSATU 6th National Congress: 16-19 September 1997, Book 4, Resolutions, Discussion
    Documents (1997), p. 33. ”


    The ANC’s mechanism for these neo-liberalism reforms – was the GEAR (Growth, Employment and Redistribution) policy:

    “The Growth, Employment and Redistribution (GEAR) policy drew from the main tenets of neoliberalism as installed globally with the main objective of creating an environment which enables maximum private investment.

    Hence GEAR proposed cuts in government spending to reduce the deficit, the introduction of tax concessions for big business, a reduction of tariff barriers (in the clothing, textile,leather and car manufacturing industries), the privatization of government assets (which included the provision of basic services), a reduction in state welfare programmes and a more flexible labour market. Adelzadeh 3

    [3 In Hein Marais (2001), South Africa: Limits to Change, (Cape Town: University of Cape Town Press) 163] and Saul both agree that the ANC had “come full circle, back to the late apartheid government’s Normative Economic Model.

    For the central premise of South Africa’s economic policy now could clearly be clearer: ask not what capital can do for South Africa, but what South Africa can do for capital…”4

    [4 Saul 12]

    The ANC pushed for GEAR, arguing that the policy framework could help achieve economic growth, attract foreign investment , boost employment and increase socio-economic equality. the verdict so far has been resoundingly negative:

    “GEAR has been associated with massive deindustrialization and job-shedding through reduced tariffs on imports, capital flight as as controls over investments are relaxed, attempts to downsize the costs and size of the public sector, and real cuts in education, health and social welfare spending”. 5
    [5 Saul 13 ]

    This neo-liberal economic framework precludes the the development of any form of social security system for the growing band of unemployed, informal sector workers and the poor. GEAR argues for a decline in state expenditure and, in keeping with global trends, this translates into cutting back on state welfare programmes.

    The harsh effects of the GEAR policy have been felt most by those who came into the era of democracy poor. These were black, working class people.

    Most were black, women, urban and rural. GEAR has left the poor more vulnerable to increasing poverty and has debilitated most workers by decimating the industries they work in. …”


    Privatisation was not the policy that Nelson Mandela upheld in his 27 years of incarceration on Robben Island.


    How / when did Nelson Mandela shift from supporting ‘freedom’ to ‘free markets’?

    “When you think about Nelson Mandela, you probably think about freedom — free people, free country, free speech. What may be overshadowed by Mr. Mandela’s extraordinary legacy was his complicated journey to support free markets and a free economy.

    When Mr. Mandela was released from prison in 1990, he told his followers in the African National Congress that he believed in the nationalization of South Africa’s main businesses.

    “The nationalization of the mines, banks and monopoly industries is the policy of the A.N.C., and a change or modification of our views in this regard is inconceivable,” he said at the time.

    Two years later, however, Mr. Mandela changed his mind, embracing capitalism, and charted a new economic course for his country. …. ”


    What a coup for the global elite to have this world-famous anti-apartheid icon, now promoting pro-corporate policies!

    Do you really think that Nelson Mandela’s face would be adorning the front pages of the global corporate media, if he had continued to support ‘nationalisation’ instead of privatisation?

    Why do you think so many of the global elite were at his funeral, and had so many nice things to say about him?

    Yes – Nelson Mandela’s policy of ‘truth and reconciliation’ may have helped prevent a racial bloodbath, but how much did it also help put a ‘lid’ on the fightback against the ANC’s ‘economic apartheid’?

    It feels that in ‘blowing the whistle’ and telling the truth, I am not just ‘swimming against the tide’, but standing up to a tsunami.

    So be it.

    ‘Truth is truth’.

    In so doing, I believe I am keeping faith with the millions of black South Africans, in whose interests thousands of New Zealanders took to the streets, to help stretch the ‘thin blue line’, to try and make the 1981 Springbok Tour ‘unpoliceable’.

    We didn’t march down the street in order for the lot of the black South African majority to be worse off – for racial apartheid to be replaced with ‘economic apartheid’.

    Should we have still protested to help stop racial apartheid in South Africa?

    Of course.

    However, in order to help prevent ‘brand Mandela’ being used by the ANC in the elections next year, in order to continue to push their neo-liberal agenda, I believe that now is the time to reveal this ‘inconvenient truth’.


    In so doing, let me say that this gives me no pleasure.

    No one likes being told that their idol has ‘feet of clay’, or that they have been effectively misled.

    I am ‘boycotting’ remembrance services for Nelson Mandela, because I hope that this will encourage debate and discussion, and those ‘social movements’ in South Africa who have been leading the fightback against the ANC’s ‘war on the poor’, will get the attention and support that they deserve.



    Penny Bright

    1981 Springbok Tour protestor
    ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  25. greywarbler 27

    Thinking about what’s behind this unemployment we have, the falling wages, the deepening demands and the meaner consideration for the worker. (I was watching Castle on tv the other day and his daughter was helping and I think she could stop and have drink because she had been working for five hours!!) That’s fiction isn’t it?? I know that the nice 10-15 minute break at morning and afternoon tea has gone, and people snatch lunch while at their desks or have half an hour off that allows them to imbibe something go to the toilet and then back to work.

    Anyway some entertaining lectures on here http://rdwolff.com/content/advanced-applied-marxian-economics-intensive-course
    Professor Richard D Wolff is a great lecturer and brings up points that will resonate with all of us. And just might cleanse out the muddy parts of the brain.

  26. Anne 29

    Have a listen to this.

    Focus on politics 13 Dec. 2013

    A malicious witch-hunt courtesy of that horrendous woman Paula Rebstock, and the unquestioned acceptance by the current States Service Commissioner Hugh Rennie. I’ve been down the road of witch hunt behaviour by psychopathic senior public servants, so I know exactly what it was like for the unfortunate Foriegn Affairs employees who found themselves in the middle of it all. They are lucky they didn’t have a caveat placed on them preventing them from revealing the truth and/or clearing their names of wrong doing as I did.

    If I had my way… come the Labour-led Govt. at the end of the year, Rebstock would be sent back to America from whence she came and Rennie would be fired.

  27. Rogue Trooper 30

    “For the first time in nearly half a century of polling [Pew research] a majority of citizens polled agree that the US should mind it’s own business internationally”
    -“American exceptionalism [too] has declined.”

  28. Rogue Trooper 31

    Critically ,
    “The Government has clearly made it a policy to use funding as a way of exerting control over what students study” -Dr Mark Amsler, Auckland Uni, and co-president, academic, for the TEU.

    “The country could lose an informed and thoughtful citizenry which understands the history and cultures of a diverse nation and supports social and economic innovation and international engagement”, and, and, and, 😎

    • Rogue Trooper 32.1

      hmmm, might have to relocate somewhere cooler next year; Dunedin looks favourable, they even have a university library, no more exorbitant inter-loan fees. mounted an electric assist motor and battery pack to a cycle for a chap a few years ago, they are quite groovy if you don’t require as much exercise.
      Not as regenerating as that wheel though.

    • weka 32.2

      These Americans are crazy (just reading the comments).

  29. ghostrider888 33

    “Learn all about it, learn all about it! Critical Thinking Being Marginalized”


    Yes poverty is bad, yes asset sales are questionable. But what really fucks me off is why doesn’t the govt take control and do the whole internet fibre roll out itself? This is a national infrastructure issue, just like roads and bridges. Whoever owns it will be able to hold the country to ransom. There aren’t many issues that define a generation internet access is a massive issue, it is so important for many reasons, business and communication, just two. Fuck chorus get the job done yourselves you useless pricks, and get it done soon.

    • Draco T Bastard 34.1

      But what really fucks me off is why doesn’t the govt take control and do the whole internet fibre roll out itself?

      Because then they wouldn’t be leaving it to the market and their constituents wouldn’t be able to bludge off of the rest of NZ as shareholders of Chorus.

      Unfortunately, Labour is in the same camp as National as far as that goes. They’re both blinded by the ideology of the market although Labour for different reasons.

  31. greywarbler 35

    What’s going to happen in the USA? Sounds like a Detroit repeated? As people leave and seek a place to live and work, the tsunami is following them. Prof Wolff says that they leave their houses, take their children from school, and shift in desperation to another city only to find it sinking into recession again. It will reach us here. It seems there will be further change. What will it be for us?

    The big financiers are cutting their investments in the USA. They are looking for somewhere else to park their monies. The hedge funds are hedging. Professor Richard D Wolff lecture –

  32. greywarbler 36

    There is often discussion about the reason for child abuse growing etc. Two USA Profs have discussed the growing problems there and how they are converging on people on the financial side and the social side as things deteriorate.

    This disussion between Dr. Harriet Fraad and Professor Richard Wolff focuses on how the continued economic deterioration (credit crisis, rising food and energy prices, falling home prices, looming recession, fiscal crises of states and cities, etc.) is interacting with the psychological stresses and strains of US life today (isolation, loneliness, anxiety, depression, violence, child neglect, etc.).
    The discussion explores whether a potentially explosive convergence of economic and psychological crises is now under way. It also explores the possibilities and strategies of left political mobilization around these twin assaults on the US quality of life.

    The updated, revised, and expanded edition of that book (published in January, 2010, by Palgrave-Macmillan) is Class Struggle on the Home Front as shown on the books page of this website.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 37.1

      That’s just awesome David, Thx for pointing out. Best Labour poll result in 4 years. DC on a massive 18% for pref PM. And all from a generally Tory leaning Herald poll!!!

  33. swordfish 38

    Just testing HTML This should be in bold

    This should be in italics

    This should be very underlined

    If not then why bloody not ?

    • lprent 38.1

      Because there is a filter on acceptable incoming HTML and underline isn’t on it. I can’t see a reason to add it. I suspect it would just make for messy pages.

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