Open mike 15/04/2021

46 comments on “Open mike 15/04/2021 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   15 April 2021 at 7:35 am

   Big Corporations Now Deploying Woke Ideology the Way Intelligence Agencies Do: As a Disguise

   by GLENN GREENWALD, 14 April 2021

   The British spy agency GCHQ is so aggressive, extreme and unconstrained by law or ethics that the NSA — not exactly world renowned for its restraint — often farms out spying activities too scandalous or illegal for the NSA to their eager British counterparts. There is, as the Snowden reporting demonstrated, virtually nothing too deceitful or invasive for the GCHQ. They spy on entire populations, deliberately disseminate fake news, exploit psychological research to control behavior and manipulate public perception, and destroy the reputations, including through the use of sex traps, of anyone deemed adversarial to the British government.

   But they want you to know that they absolutely adore gay people. In fact, they love the cause of LGBT equality so very much that, beginning on May 17, 2015 — International Day against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia — they started draping their creepy, UFO-style headquarters in the colors of the rainbow flag. The prior year, in 2014, they had merely raised the rainbow flag in front of their headquarters, but in 2015, they announced, “we wanted to make a bold statement to show the nation we serve how strongly we believe in this.” ….

   Read more…

   https://greenwald.substack.com/p/big-corporations-now-deploying-woke
2. Anker 2

   15 April 2021 at 8:08 am

   • Thanks Morrissey. Interesting and frightening post. Police in UK do same for LBGTs rights. The Autistism foundation has spoken up that they don’t get the same acknowledgment from the police, although they apparently fear badly when they come into contact with police.
   • on a different but related note, for those who are concerned about freedom of speech, I draw attention to Harry Miller, an ex cop in the UK who was engaging in a debate on-line about the proposed gender self I’d bill in 2019. He written some negative tweets about the issue including what I thought was a tasteless poem. Next thing the police turn up at his work and he goes on a register of hate events, that can be accessed by people such as prospective employers. He is told he has committed no crime, so his tweets although tasteless imho, not a crime. But he is sent a document from the police headed crime repot. He takes the police to the High Court and wins. The judge describes the polices actions as Orwellian. It’s a long clip, but I will try and post it.
   • Morrissey 2.1

     15 April 2021 at 9:15 am

     A disturbingly similar case to the police harassment of Harry Miller for thought crime is this one from the U.S., pertaining to the Queen of Woke herself….

     https://thegrayzone.com/2021/04/09/anti-war-activist-police-aoc-video/

     To compound this horror/comedy, the former director of GCHQ has been longlisted for the ….. (wait for it!)…. Orwell Prize…

     https://twitter.com/pmillerinfo/status/1380627629582249987
3. Anker 3

   15 April 2021 at 8:13 am

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0wC7c9Sywk

   Harry Miller link as quoted in my above comment
4. Sacha 4

   15 April 2021 at 8:48 am

   Govt speeding up regulatory change to get more homes consented. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300277195/housing-government-looking-to-fasttrack-moves-to-force-councils-to-allow-more-housing

   Environment Minister David Parker confirmed that the Government was looking to bring forward parts of its National Policy Statement on Urban Development – a push announced in 2020 to force councils to allow more housing density by removing their ability to require carparks or set height-limits below six storeys in many areas.

   That statement was not set to be fully rolled out until 2024, but Housing Minister Megan Woods said a “short-term solution” was needed ahead of it being fully implemented.

   And a succinct denunciation of that recent Nat announcement:

   Woods also critiqued National’s new policy of offering councils $50,000 for every house built over their historical five-year average.

   She said because the money would not be front-loaded councils would still have to borrow to build infrastructure, and many councils were at their debt-limit.

   Her Government’s $3.8 billion to support housing infrastructure would be front-loaded, she said, and more details would be available on it soon.
   • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1

     15 April 2021 at 11:15 am

     Councils are at their debt limit as a matter of policy, indeed they cant work without it. Its because of the way they use ' depreciation of assets' to fund their every day activities. Pipes dont depreciate as fast as edifices in the accounting process so are last on the list.

     Wellington is prime example of this , every grand design for the city is approved quickly and even rebuilds are as grand as possible and loaded with upgrades
5. Jimmy 5

   15 April 2021 at 9:15 am

   So the latest covid case security guard at MIQ (case B) hasn't been tested since last November even though we were told there was two week testing for all MIQ workers. Turns out that is BS.

   "We don't have a systematic way until next week of being able to write a query into the system to give us information," said Tremain.

   There is the problem IMO. Currently the system is open to human error and employees lying. They should have had this in place already.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/covid-19-officials-still-investigating-why-security-guard-wasn-t-tested-as-jacinda-ardern-jumps-the-gun.html
   • Sabine 5.1

     15 April 2021 at 9:22 am

     wow, the weakest link broke, and its all the fault of the weakest link.

     Was this a casual employee or full time?

     Was this someone who ran a regular shift at the plague hotel or was called in any few weeks every other month for a casual shift?

     was the employee provided time on the clock to get tested or was that a voluntary thing?

     was the employee provided with a location to get tested and was that done by the employer?

     How was the goverment contract formulated in regards to testing of staff that mans the plague hotels?

     What are the fines for an employer who does not make sure its staff gets tested?

     nah, its all the fault of someone at bottom of the bucket below the ladder. Sounds a bit like with the student KFC worker who was blamed for a whole heep of mishaps that came way of communications from schools, health department and ministry.

     But i guess its much easier to bash down then to admit that maybe the ball was dropped at ministerial level.

     We don't know how lucky we are……….
     • Muttonbird 5.1.1

       15 April 2021 at 9:28 am

       No sure why you continue to give the employers a free pass. They are no doubt collecting top taxpayer dollar for this work and were to meet certain obligations for the good of the nation. They didn't do it.
       • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.1.1

         15 April 2021 at 10:15 am

         No sure why you continue to give the employers a free pass. And I assume you mean 'Why are you blaming the Govt and the Ministry?'

         Bugger me fucking sideways….

         After a privacy breach incident in August, the number of Defence Force staff at the hotels was boosted, and the government said remaining security guards would be employed directly by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) in future.

         Last bloody August it was clear that the 'private security contractors model ' was not working and it was announced that these vital MIQ personnel would be employed directly by M(O)BIE.

         The numpties running this pantomime are only just getting their collective arses into gear and advertising for these positions.

         It is the Ministry's fault and it is the Government's fault this shit is still going on.

         This is like groundhog day.
         • Muttonbird 5.1.1.1.1

           15 April 2021 at 10:27 am

           Agree, I do remember the announcement after that incident. Interesting it was not a Covid infection or risk of infection incident.

           In your second link it says the government was aiming to reduce reliance on private contractors by bringing in defence force staff.

           JA did say they were looking to employ security guards directly:

           Where we are using security guards, we're looking to directly employ them by MBIE who will train and pay a living wage. This will raise accountability and give more central control over procedures.

           I guess this either wasn't possible or the private sector protested, not being able to clip the wage ticket.

           Still believe the contracting companies have a lot more to answer for than is being asked of them.
           • Rosemary McDonald 5.1.1.1.1.1

             15 April 2021 at 10:58 am

             I guess this either wasn't possible or the private sector protested, not being able to clip the wage ticket.

             I guess its because M(O)BIE, like the MOH, have become so dependent on private contractors over the decades that they are almost incapable of doing their work any other way.

             I know that the Ministry of Health, back in the mid 1990's, handed over all aspects of Disability Support Services to the private sector. They did not want the disabled, they did not understand disability and they happily handed over all but 'policy work' to private contractors. When shit got real and disabled New Zealander's were abused and neglected to death by these private contractors the Misery of Health claimed distance from these atrocities…'our hands are clean we are merely the funders'.

             Disabled people and their families have fought, gone to court, written submissions and letters and participated in surveys and discussions and conferences and conventions and begged and pleaded with various Ministers from governments of all hues to step up and fucking take back control from what has been for decades a rogue ministry that runs along the lines of a fiefdom.

             From what I hear…M(O)BIE is very similar.

             Nothing but a complete purge of all Ministerial staff with 'service' of more than 2 years will fix this. If they survive that long in that work environment they are just as bad as the rest.
             • Pat …

               15 April 2021 at 11:07 am

               While agreeing the whole dysfunctional system needs to scrapped and started again i can see no viable way of doing so WHILE maintaining some semblance of organisation so in effect 'they' have won…the state has been rendered incapable and therefore is unable to challenge the private profiteers.

               But in winning they will lose….unfortunately theyre going to take everyone else down with them.
             • Muttonbird …

               15 April 2021 at 11:11 am

               Yes, the reforms of the 80s and 90s are still held up as best practice in efficiency. Of course they are not more efficient (how can they be with more people clipping the ticket?), just less effective.

               It's interesting that calls across the board now are toward greater centralisation and less dependence on the private sector who clearly can't and won't do the job properly because of the profit motive.

               Even the right wing are demanding greater government involvement in all areas of society and economy.

               Perhaps one of the legacies of this pandemic will be a reset of services toward to good of society rather than for the profit of a few.
             • ghostwhowalksnz …

               15 April 2021 at 11:18 am

               Its a bit of myopic view about 'the good old days' when every , literally was run in house.

               Never heard of Lake Alice or the myriad of dysfunctional people over the years working for the 'ministry or the board'?
               • Pat …

                 15 April 2021 at 11:23 am

                 No one is claiming historical perfection but there was a capacity and capability that no longer exists and that is not going to end well for anyone….and we were warned.

                 40 years (less than) was all it took……it will take a lot longer to restore, if ever.
                 • gsays …

                   15 April 2021 at 12:54 pm

                   That shouldn't stop us from making a start.

                   All orderlies, security, laundry and nurse aid employed by the DHB.

                   Any Government department that spends over a certain % on a particular contracted employee must bring them 'in-house'.

                   As I have said before, there are folk out there with letters after their name who are better equipped than me to do this
       • Sabine 5.1.1.2

         15 April 2021 at 11:06 am

         You do realise that the Government is the ultimative employer of the contractors that run the security guards?

         you do realise that? Do you?

         Thanks.

         And again, we don't know how lucky we are.
         • Muttonbird 5.1.1.2.1

           15 April 2021 at 11:13 am

           What part of contracting do you not understand?
           • Sabine 5.1.1.2.1.1

             15 April 2021 at 11:27 am

             Yes, i have a job offer, you take it and contract out for me to do it, however, i am still liable for the fuck ups that you do considering that I am the one who wrote the original contract – and should have included penalties for every single one of your potential fuckups, so that i can cover my ass and pretend to have thought about everything.

             And this is not a stupid leaky building issue where everyone can get to go in liquidation so as to avoid liablity, this shit gets out the country goes down to 4 again on the noise of your phone and how good will that do us?

             So just please keep that in mind with your Business as usual attitude of lets blame the person on the bottom, rather then the one who contracts a job out cause cheap labour is them, or the one who took the cheap contract and is now running the show with the expected lowest paid people they can find.
             • Muttonbird …

               15 April 2021 at 11:35 am

               Read my comments. The one at the bottom is an idiot, clearly. But his employer is more at fault because they didn't ensure the contract was fulfilled, ie ensuring the testing order was carried out.

               You are letting the private operator off the hook here. Please do better.
               • Jimmy …

                 15 April 2021 at 11:47 am

                 But the system (if there was one) should have picked up when he told his employer he was tested (or when he lied as stated by Jacinda), that he was not, because it was not showing in the database stating who has and who hasn't been vaccinated.
                 Currently the system seems to be voluntary testing by the employees.
                 • Stuart Munro …

                   15 April 2021 at 11:51 am

                   One would expect the contractor to be liable, regardless of the reason (or excuse) for non-performance.

                   A case for the quarantine costs of the affected workers would be letting them off lightly.
                 • Muttonbird …

                   15 April 2021 at 11:56 am

                   That sort of system wasn't in place. What was in place was a requirement for employers to ensure the testing order was carried out. It was then left to the employer to work out haw to do that.

                   They didn't.

                   Now that it has transpired that some workers and their employers have been lying about testing I guess a new government compliance system will be in place at greater cost to the taxpayer and less cost to business.

                   Happy now?
                   • Jimmy …

                     15 April 2021 at 1:38 pm

                     Yes. That sort of system wasn't in place but should have been. You cant rely on people to "just do the right thing voluntarily". It would be like saying to people at the airport when they arrive from overseas, "please just stay home and quarantine for 14 days, we trust you to do that".
                   • Foreign waka …

                     15 April 2021 at 8:16 pm

                     I would only be happy if the contractor be held liable if, because of non compliance, a super spreader is being let loose into the community causing health and economic damage. Anyone in this forum who has a legal background able to tell us whether this is possible?
   • AB 5.2

     15 April 2021 at 10:13 am

     "Currently the system is open to human error…"

     Yeah – whatever. Everything humans do is a mess – especially at the margins. I can't get exercised over the minutiae of execution – other than hope that they find the issues fairly early and have a commitment to trying to fix them.

     And I know that there would be no meaningful difference in operational competence between one government and any other – they are all working with the same system and the same constraints. To support the Nats because you have been sucked into the myth of their superior competence would be delusional.

     Rather than competence, what matters in our political choices is the ideology and intent of a political party. It's clear from the "what about the economy?" noises that National were making early in the pandemic, that they would have taken us down something more like the path of far-right genocidal lunacy we have seen with the Tories in the UK – though probably not quite as awful.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1

       15 April 2021 at 5:03 pm

       It's clear from the "what about the economy?" noises that National were making early in the pandemic, that they would have taken us down something more like the path of far-right genocidal lunacy we have seen with the Tories in the UK

       
   • Red Blooded One 5.3

     15 April 2021 at 10:28 am

     Two week testing was available for all MIQ workers, so no it is not BS, that is a fail from you. This worker chose to not get tested and lie to his employers and the employers were not checking obviously. Having said that I think the Government needs to get more heavy handed on people flouting the rules. How many people do you know who don't scan when entering premises. I suggest heaps, doesn't mean the system isn't there for their use.
6. Muttonbird 6

   15 April 2021 at 10:49 am

   Just how the security guard went five months without a test remains unclear. In Parliament on Wednesday Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the 24-year-old had "lied". His employer First Security said all its guards are "required to sign declarations that they are up-to-date with the COVID-19 testing requirements", but that it also has "current proof of up-to-date COVID-19 testing from all guards working at MIQ facilities".

   Main said the employer's testing information didn't match what the Ministry of Health had, which is how they found out the worker hadn't been tested. She wasn't sure if the worker had provided actual proof of testing to his employer, or just lied about it.

   "He was providing assurances. Each employer has a different way of keeping track of their employees' status – that's something they're required to do under the testing order, and each employer will do that differently."

   From April 27, all border employers will be required to use a centralised register.

   This was the system in place. By law employers are required to keep track of their employee's status under the testing order.

   This seems reasonably sensible to me. To task employers with their own employees testing requirements rather than government having to deal with all 300 suppliers and their 4000 workers and test them all themselves. Again it looks like some employers and their employees got slack and cut corners.

   The responsibility is now being taken away from them because, as usual, the private sector can't get anything important right. This at further cost to the taxpayer and greater profit to the private sector.

   As it ever was.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/coronavirus-miq-boss-reveals-exact-number-of-border-workers-who-might-never-have-been-tested-for-covid-19.html
   • McFlock 6.1

     15 April 2021 at 12:48 pm

     So basically the dude didn't just "lie", it's arguable that he committed fraud.

     His employer First Security said all its guards are "required to sign declarations that they are up-to-date with the COVID-19 testing requirements", but that it also has "current proof of up-to-date COVID-19 testing from all guards working at MIQ facilities".

     First Security have a pile of little chitties saying every one of their employees are up to date with tests. I hope FS have something more than that as their "current proof", because how many of those chits were robo-signed by staff who meant to get a test real soon, but never got around to it for five months?

     So now everyone will need to get a receipt when they take the test, as the quickest bypass around privacy concerns and the practicalities of data matching.
     • Muttonbird 6.1.1

       15 April 2021 at 12:55 pm

       First Security

       Ironic, isn't it? The more I look at that, the more it makes me laugh…
       • McFlock 6.1.1.1

         15 April 2021 at 1:32 pm

         Security is a pretty low wage job, mostly. Its ideal output is nothing, but if nothing happens, the clients get complacent and start cutting the budget until something happens.

         This "all our people are regularly tested" is a tick-box requirement: cheapest way to tick it is to have a folder of staff declarations. In the service contract there'd be a clause of "all staff will be tested every x days", but no penalty. So as long as it's only one or two and the company can say it tried, the contract can't get turfed.

         If it was more than a compliance formality (i.e. if an untested guard is discovered, that costs the security company a significant penalty fee) the company would coordinate the testing for each shift, at the workplace.
         • dv 6.1.1.1.1

           15 April 2021 at 1:42 pm

           I wonder if First Security pay the hours the worker says they worked without any check?
           • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1.1

             15 April 2021 at 3:16 pm

             Funny story about that from another security company many years ago.

             Guard got pinged for filing false checks on his route (lots of them run from site to site checking for break-ins and fires rather than being at one point all shift, company gets paid to check a building say 3 times a night) because apparently he "checked the building and found it fine" while fire service was still putting out a real fire. Turned out his super had also been doing days on the side gig and sleeping when he should have been checking up on whether the nightshift guards were doing their checks.

             quis custodiet ipsos custodes ipsos custodes ad infinitum…
   • Foreign Waka 6.2

     15 April 2021 at 2:06 pm

     Now, if and I say if, a worker from First Security knowingly does not test and becomes a super spreader, can those who are unwittingly being infected sue the company for willful endangerment of health and/or life?

     It would be interesting to know as I am sure that if the answer is yes, there will be an airtight system in place in ….hmmm lets say 10 minutes?
     • McFlock 6.2.1

       15 April 2021 at 9:37 pm

       I'm not sure one can actually sue for criminal charges in NZ.

       Maybe for damages if there was negligence.

       But then who would one sue? A low wage employee? MIQ? The security company that assumed it could leave regular testing up to the employee to sort if not getting tested was gross misconduct?
7. Chris 7

   15 April 2021 at 3:43 pm

   Yet another example of where Australia's managed to evolve to:

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300277901/twerking-dancers-at-australian-military-event-labelled-an-absolute-shocker
   • McFlock 7.1

     15 April 2021 at 3:53 pm

     lols

     Boaty McBoatface commissioned by Butty McButtcheeks in front of Poey McPoeface.
   • greywarshark 7.2

     15 April 2021 at 3:55 pm

     Another one to watch from Australia.

     https://www.9news.com.au/national/australia-post-ceo-christine-holgate-bullied-out-of-job-scott-morrison/c1c5e4d8-bb32-42b3-90b5-ef141039d7b7

     It reminds me of the Julia Gillard story when she was PM. I think Australian politics might be toxic for females; too many poisonous snakes I think.
8. KSaysHi 8

   15 April 2021 at 4:31 pm

   The way this woman has been treated is shocking, but more importantly, and not for the first time, it shows the family court system needs changing.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300277390/the-court-said-she-was-lying-about-being-abused-she-did-a-year-on-home-detention-she-wasnt-lying

   Worse, part-way through her cross-examination, she is accused of making up the abuse.

   Her ex-husband’s lawyer tells the judge Mrs P has “falsified evidence” on one of the ACC file notes attached to her affidavit. The altered document is a 20-hour report form, completed by a counsellor for the sensitive claims unit, on Mrs P’s first visit. The lawyer says she has managed to obtain the original version after gaining access to Mrs P’s entire confidential ACC file in preparation for the hearing.

   Irrelevant information dragged before the court, and systemic abuse of this poor woman was the result. How does the court make up for that? Most people I know who have dealt with ACC “Sensitive” Claims have had to make statements of correction. That’s not a crime.
   • Anne 8.1

     15 April 2021 at 4:59 pm

     I'm with you on this one KSaysHi.

     And it is not an infrequent occurrence although this story would seem an extreme example:

     Psychopathic violent male abuses female and female is punished for… making up stories. Many of us have been down that road although not always a result of a domestic situation. It can be excessive abuse in the work-place or in a normal social setting. It never ceases to amaze me how often the perpetrators are believed over the victims by those who are supposed to be the experts/protectors/purveyors of justice.
9. greywarshark 9

   15 April 2021 at 5:41 pm

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/440501/exporters-missing-out-on-up-to-24-billion-of-untapped-global-demand-report

   A report by an economics consultancy firm [Infometrics] has found up to $24 billion worth of untapped global demand for New Zealand products…

   He said the report highlighted the potential demand for main exports, but did not consider whether producers could meet that demand, and what capacity constraints may be in the way.

   Interesting – looking at increasing the wine market? That needs water and if looking at Nelson, Tasman, who knows whether they will have enough for themselves without feeding another hungry water sponge of win similar to dairy. There is a dam in Tasman being built which I hope is not going to be siphoned away to dairy and will provide surety of supply for people as far away as Richmond. The horticulture people actually need it muchly to maintain a diversified growing area. Wine should not be trying for much expansion to avoid being over-exposed to one industry. The dam appears to have rotten rock underneath, which I think they were warned about, and is requiring more work, and top-ups and government has said no more. It may be that it has to be scaled back for safety – intelligent geological reasons.

   Yet this report says that markets in traditional areas of wine supply are not 'saturated'. It sounds as if the report and thinking is based on growth before all other considerations. And of course it has to be transported there, though wine would be fine by sea as I suppose it travels now?

   I suggest that this potential export figure is a bit over-egged, a pie in the sky one, and we need to work hard to keep up what we have, and work on a managed rise coming from new customers, and present products at a steady pace. Sending ice cream must be a no-no long term. Exporting the ingredients and making it in the target country like Indonesia with local labour and NZ hygiene would I think endear us to those customers.

   As for logs, to avoid us having to compete against export prices for our own product, government is going to have to pull finger and buy back some land or young plantations at the appropriate market price for young trees. Of course we do need politicians who have some idea of how to manage the country, and avoid the two-tier inflation we already notice on wood for our houses, and on built houses.

   The report mentions Australia suffering a setback on exports through its accord with China having been damaged. They will be looking for outlets and competing, possibly undercutting us, to get them. It is wise to not rely on trade with Australia, and not to set up a joint promotion or trading bloc with them to trade with other countries, as they will always renege from agreements when there are problems, and seek to get the best deal for themselves.

   Anyone who is interested in our country's enterprises and exports is welcome to criticise. But I have been watching for decades and I think I have a reasonably good overview – short on details and expertise with stats and graphs though!
10. greywarshark 10

    15 April 2021 at 9:56 pm

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2104/S00055/on-the-erebus-memorial-in-parnell.htm

    It seems an ugly lump of concrete passage on what had been a green park. And apparently it had to be in Auckland because most of the Erebus passengers had come from Auckland. They wanted to go as far as the Antarctic, so were prepared to travel that far themselves. Why not have it in Wellington in Parliament grounds, right by the people who were the type to bring the disaster about?
    • Anne 10.1

      15 April 2021 at 11:51 pm

      Why not have it in Wellington in Parliament grounds, right by the people who were the type to bring the disaster about?

      There was only one entity to blame and that was Air NZ. Poor procedures on the part of the back-up staff caused the tragedy. Nothing to do with the pollies although Muldoon was instrumental in enabling the truth to be covered up in order to save the Airline's reputation. All of it done at the expense of the dead cockpit crew who had been given the wrong co-ordinates.
      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        16 April 2021 at 5:48 pm

        Literal to a point Anne. I said the type that would have been the cause – if not pollies then up on The Terrace, just behind the beehive.

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