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Open mike 15/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 15th, 2016 - 87 comments
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87 comments on “Open mike 15/03/2016 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    15 March 2016 at 6:51 am

    New Zealand talks with Iran.
    So RNZ allows an Israeli spokesperson on air to tell what New Zealand to do.
    And then a wretched interview ensues.

  2. b waghorn 2
    15 March 2016 at 6:59 am

    Holy fuck the most bizarre interview every between Paul Henry and the head niwa scientist. He blew Henrys tiny selfish little mind. Will be on in 50 minutes on tv3 +1

    • paaparakauta 2.1
      15 March 2016 at 8:40 am

      Any chance of a link ? I’d like to see &/or hear that .. I lost interest in teevee a long time ago.

      • Molly 2.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 12:26 pm

        Audio only but that was hard enough for this Henry avoider to listen to, even though it would have been interesting to watch his facial expressions.

        Have similar to Morrisey’s view on the banter and sycophantic laugh track so best leave it at that for comments from me.

        • Grindlebottom 2.1.1.1
          15 March 2016 at 1:55 pm

          Embarrassing listening to Paul Henry on this. I’ve never heard anybody trumpet their ignorance on so many topics as loudly as he does. He even described us as “shickered” by climate change, apparently blithely unaware it means drunk. Or maybe he personally does drink to forget it.

  3. Jones 3
    15 March 2016 at 8:44 am

    A bit of fun from a mate of mine that pretty much encapsulates (in less than 1 minute) my view of the the current flag debate… 🙂

    F**king Flag by RedKey (expliciy lyrics)

  4. Stuart Munro 4
    15 March 2016 at 8:52 am

    I imagine comparatively few Standardistas have given much thought to Key’s next job – always imagining he’d be welcome among the crew that loathed him so much they gave him the nickname the smiling assassin.

    But there is a role in which his talents would give him a unique competitive advantage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKPwtDjzJMI

    Even narcissists can benefit society if they find the appropriate position.

  5. vto 5
    15 March 2016 at 8:52 am

    So has the military been protecting the TPPA roadshow, as Chris Trotter asks in his piece this morning in the paper?

    As Trotter outlines, this is surely the most pressing and substantial issue.

    Is the military protecting the TPPA roadshow?

    Does anybody know?

    The consequences and implications are fucking scary

    • crashcart 5.1
      15 March 2016 at 10:08 am

      Was there any evidence attached? I am in the military and to be honest would find it very surprising if this was the case.

      • vto 5.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 10:16 am

        Yes same.

        Trotter (link not available yet) points to some evidence, being a lapel badge and question answered to the Josie Butler person about it. If she has made shit up like this then it will decimate her credibility – let’s see

        It should be followed up quite seriously imo

      • weka 5.1.2
        15 March 2016 at 3:23 pm

        I’ve seen someone on twitter who was at a roadshow talking about the army being there. I agree, it would be good to see it confirmed.

        This person has a write up about attending (no idea who they are),

        https://skepticnz.wordpress.com/2016/03/14/inside-the-tppa-roadshow-experience/

        • Potato 5.1.2.1
          15 March 2016 at 4:41 pm

          From accounts I’ve heard from others, the write up mentioned above is a pretty good reflection of the event in Dunedin. I haven’t heard anybody witnessing any members of the military amongst the security in Dunedin but there was certainly a large contingent of police, Armourgard employees and security chaps in suits.
          Wonder if there will be the high level of security in Invercargill tomorrow for Todd McClays visit?

  6. Macro 6
    15 March 2016 at 8:56 am

    CO2 and Global Temperatures reach record Highs, and National fiddles with the ETS.

    As reported in the Guardian today

    “Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide last year rose by the biggest margin since records began, according to a US federal science agency.
    Fossil fuel burning and a strong El Niño weather pattern pushed CO2 levels 3.05 parts per million (ppm) on a year earlier to 402.6 ppm, as measured at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) said on Wednesday.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/10/co2-levels-make-largest-recorded-annual-leap-noaa-data-shows

    And right on call Global temperatures are going through the roof. Following on from a record monthly Global Temperature in January – February 2016 was the warmest month on record by a whopping 0.2o C! That surge in Global Temperatures brings the Earth to the 1.50 C above pre-industrial levels aspirational target that the COP 21 agreed the world must stay just last year.

    Now the surge in Global temperatures that we are currently experiencing is not unexpected considering that we are in the middle of an El Nino event the like of which hasn’t been experienced since 1997-98, when there was a similar spike in Global temperatures. However the current spike (and I’m sure that temperatures will drop back – this is a temporary aberration) is far more pronounced than even the massive spike of the 97-98 event. The Earth is now on a new “Plateau” on the upward journey of increasing Global Temperatures.

    Here in New Zealand, National are considering “fixing” the ETS. Submissions have been called and I’m sure many have submitted. I have done so in the past but this time I did not. In my opinion submitting again on this new amendment to a now useless Emissions Trading Scheme is a complete waste of time and energy because this is a Government of “consultation” in name only. They think that consultation involves telling others what is to happen. Not only that, there are enough “hot air” credits slopping around in the scheme to cover NZ’s arse for the next couple of years, laundered by the Government, so that NZ can meet its targets without spending any money. So expect nothing creditable to emerge from this new assessment of a scheme that is already worthless, and has done nothing to limit NZs GHG emissions. It is again simply window dressing and the rearrangement of deck chairs on a sinking ship.

    NZ’s ETS is beyond redemption. It needs scraping and replaced by a Carbon Tax of at least $50 per tonne initially (I’m sure others would argue for more) and applied across all sectors. The revenue generated to be redistributed through vastly increased initiatives in public transport, alternative energies, energy efficiencies, subsidies for private solar, wind, and electric and hybrid vehicles, insulation of houses, and research and education wrt climate change.

    Electric vehicles – Talking of which – much hypocrisy here! But great photo op!/sarc

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1
      15 March 2016 at 10:31 am

      NZ’s ETS is beyond redemption. It needs scraping and replaced by a Carbon Tax of at least $50 per tonne initially (I’m sure others would argue for more) and applied across all sectors.

      Yep, $200 per tonne:

      Want to grow the economy while also helping the environment? Well, slap a $200 per metric ton tax on carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new study by an environmental group that claims such a policy would grow the economy and create jobs.

      • Andre 6.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 11:16 am

        $200 per tonne of CO2. That puts a price on coal of $600 per tonne before you even start to think about digging it out of the ground. Petrol and diesel get a carbon tax of 50 to 60 cents per litre.

        Bring it on. There will be massive economic stimulus from bringing online all the substitutes.

  7. adam 7
    15 March 2016 at 9:06 am

    Whilst we won’t be like Mexico. To many white people live here. The TTP will make us poorer.

  9. adam 9
    15 March 2016 at 9:53 am

    One of my favourite thinkers this century.

    Dr. Vijay Prashad is interviewed by Abbey Martin, about Syria. If you have not read any of his books take the time, it is worth it.

    The last 2 minutes of this interview is just wonderful.

    • adam 9.1
      15 March 2016 at 3:30 pm

      please swap “is just wonderful” to “are just wonderful”

      Sheesh how bad was that error…

  10. Tautoko Mangō Mata 10
    15 March 2016 at 10:00 am

    TPP- the ISDS is one of the most contentious parts of the TPP. The countries with which we have ISDS clauses in our FTAs have not featured highly in data on ISDS.
    However, as you can see in the linked page of an interactive site on ISDS (showing the countries, the number of cases brought against the country using the ISDS and the Home state of the claimant corporation.) US and Canada are high on the litigant side.

    http://investmentpolicyhub.unctad.org/ISDS/FilterByCountry

    Without ISDS a claimant still can get justice by using the existing judicial systems. ISDS is simply a ploy to bypass these and is used to threaten states.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    15 March 2016 at 11:30 am


    Globalization and Growth

    So how would you test such arguments? Well, in a way we did carry out an experiment. In the early 1990s there was a widespread orthodoxy that “outward-looking” development policies were much more favorable to growth than “inward-looking” policies. This orthodoxy had a lot to do with the rapid growth of Asian economies, which had followed an export-oriented path rather than the import substitution tried by much of the world in the 50s and 60s. The question, however, was whether you would see dramatic acceleration of growth in other places, such as Latin America, when policy shifted away from inward focus.

    And the answer turned out to be, not so much. Look at Mexico, which did a radical trade liberalization in 1985-88, then joined NAFTA. It has seen a transformation of its economy in many ways; it has gone from an economy that didn’t export much besides oil and tourism to a major manufacturing export power. And the effect on development has been … undewhelming.

    So Brad could be right; but the evidence is far from conclusive. I would still argue very strongly that it’s crucial to keep markets open for poor countries. But we should be cautious in our claims about the virtues of free trade.

    Such an outward looking way to boost an economy is underwhelming because everyone can do it and productivity is so high that only a small percentage of the world population is needed to provide everything we need (although, there probably isn’t enough actual resources to do that – the problem of over population).

    The only way left to develop an economy is broadly within it’s own scope. In other words, local manufacture from local resources for local use.

    Trade is defunct.

  12. Colonial Viper 12
    15 March 2016 at 11:50 am

    [r0b: This comment was moved, as per request below, to open mike. It was originally a reply to
    http://thestandard.org.nz/february-breaks-all-records/#comment-1146794 ]

    what is this crappy racist sexist ageist shite.

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 12:13 pm

        As usual, the Left leads the way.

        • weka 12.1.1.1
          15 March 2016 at 12:26 pm

          As usual, another day of CV’s bigotry.

          I will say this though, the climate change news is scarey beyond what we’ve had in the past. I think a lot of people aren’t well equipped to deal with that, so how about we all try and be a bit kinder to each other this week? (I’m looking at myself there too).

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2016 at 12:37 pm

            Not surprised that you think its fine to stereotype white males of a certain age, but then call me the bigot. And then try and talk about kindness. Your hypocrisy climbs to new heights.

            • weka 12.1.1.1.1.1
              15 March 2016 at 12:55 pm

              I didn’t say it’s fine CV and I don’t actually think it’s fine. You’re making an incorrect assumption about my politics. Again. All I did was stand up and point out your behaviour again because I’m sick of the whole bullshit false binaries and pathologising whole groups of people. Pineapples made a single comment and people are free to call them on it as they see fit. You’ve been spraying your negative shit that’s now out and out bigotry around the site for many months. It’s tedious and it’s having a negative effect on discussions and what we can do here. I’m not willing to let that slide in such an important thread.

              • Colonial Viper …
                15 March 2016 at 12:59 pm

                You don’t think its fine but you were silent about it. But you point the finger at me for making a bigoted comment.

                What was that bigoted comment by the way? I have no idea what I said that you got in such a twist about.

                • weka …
                  15 March 2016 at 1:11 pm

                  “You don’t think its fine but you were silent about it.”

                  For various reasons. Plus strange as it may seem, I don’t comment on every thing I disagree with.

                  “What was that bigoted comment by the way? I have no idea what I said that you got in such a twist about.”

                  I’m happy to have that conversation but not in this thread because it’s so off topic. Let’s take it to Open Mike.

              • Tim …
                15 March 2016 at 2:50 pm

                CV is a negative nelly it’s true but weka you do seem to be quite comfortable stereotyping white males sometimes so I think it’s a fair point

                • weka …
                  15 March 2016 at 3:19 pm

                  stereotyping and bigotry aren’t exactly the same thing though, right? Feel free to call me on bigotry any time you like, so long as you can point to an example and explain why you think it’s bigoted and then engage in a conversation about that.

                  As Bill pointed out, the climate denialists are well represented by older white guys. I don’t think anyone that agrees with that statement thinks that that means that most older white guys are denialists (although I might be tempted to say that if I lived in the US).

                  • Tim …
                    15 March 2016 at 6:35 pm

                    You’re the one accusing CV of bigotry though, what was his bigoted comment? pointing out their whiteness doesn’t do anything to help the problem – just gives people more reason to discount what you say

                    • weka …
                      15 March 2016 at 7:05 pm

                      CV’s bigotry is related to people he hates on and likes to now treat as a class eg ‘the left’.

                      “pointing out their whiteness doesn’t do anything to help the problem – just gives people more reason to discount what you say”

                      Contrary to what CV was thinking, I wasn’t fine with Pineapple’s comment. I thought it unnecessarily inflammatory and pretty much irrelevant outside of a conversation that was looking at power structures. It might have worked further down the thread, but as the first comment, when people were just finished reading something pretty challenging, having to jump into a conversation like that was jarring and likely to derail the thread.

                      Do I think that the classes of people who control both the creation of cc and whether we prevent the worst of it are dominated by older white men? Yes. Is there any disputing that? Do I think that most older white men are responsible? No. It always pays to talk to people about their politics and find out what they believe rather than jumping to conclusions based on projection.

            • te reo putake 12.1.1.1.1.2
              15 March 2016 at 12:56 pm

              But if you yourself stereotype people in that way, it’s all hunky dory, apparently. Seriously, mate, you need to own your prejudices and stop being such a hypocrite.

              • Colonial Viper …
                15 March 2016 at 12:58 pm

                Hey TRP, you’re such a straight shooter, hope you make it high on to the Labour List.

                • weka …
                  15 March 2016 at 1:13 pm

                  how about we take this to OM?

                  I’m going to suggest that one of the moderators shifts the whole subthread too because it’s completely off topic and it’s an important thread for people not to be put off by derailments at the top of the comments.

            • cyclonemike 12.1.1.1.1.3
              15 March 2016 at 3:36 pm

              I agree – and the irony is that the scientists quoted in the story was … a white male over 40. Too funny for words.

              • weka …
                15 March 2016 at 3:50 pm

                how is that ironical?

              • Colonial Viper …
                15 March 2016 at 4:19 pm

                The irony is not apparent to everyone it seems.

                • weka …
                  15 March 2016 at 6:18 pm

                  What was ironical was you getting all het up with your own identity politics.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    15 March 2016 at 6:26 pm

                    It seems that you understand irony just fine when you decide to.

                    • weka …
                      15 March 2016 at 6:42 pm

                      Maybe, but I’m willing to be that you can’t explain what the irony was that cyclonemike referred to.

                  • greywarshark …
                    17 March 2016 at 10:08 pm

                    It’s so interesting to see CV being pursued by you weka. He is receiving the same treatment that I used to get when I attempted to say anything about rape culture, and question its pervasiveness. When people like yourself set up as gatekeeper to everything it acts to enforce censorship. But it seems that you weka are trying to dominate the discourse and control the site to the point where critical attacks are common.

                    And for those who don’t know what all this gerfuffle is about – this was what got it started. I think that everyone should stop, rethink and stick to the political discussion. If someone makes a pointed criticism in the heat of the moment, let it pass, particularly weka, Colonial Viper and Te Reo Putake. It is not impressive to see the unreasoning hostility that amounts to bullying, then provoking reaction. I thought The Standard was aiming higher than this unpleasant nitpicking.

                    February breaks all records.
                    esoteric pineapples 1
                    15 March 2016 at 10:32 am
                    Now all we have to do is wait for a bunch of white males over 40 to tell us either a) scientists don’t know what they are talking about or b) its a hoax driven by the illuminati or some other conspiratorial group.

                    • weka …
                      19 March 2016 at 6:52 pm

                      Thanks grey. I’m more than happy to be challenged on what I am doing, and I’m not that happy with how I have been here lately (my questioning the macho culture of ts is in part because it tends to bring out the worst in me if I don’t keep an eye on what I am doing).

                      I’m going to disagree with your interpretation though. The problem I have with CV is his behaviour not his politics, so I’m not sure the comparison works re you trying to bring in a different view on rape culture. It was the same with Pete George. When people’s behaviour affects a community so negatively then I think it’s valid for others to do something about it. If I was the only person challening CV on what he is doing I might agree with your interpretation that I am trying to control the debate somehow. But many people are sick of what he is doing. Many. If you take me out of the equation, CV still sprays his shit around too much and many people react against that. They aren’t doing those things because of me.

                      Whether my own behaviour makes that situation better or worse, I don’t really know at the moment. I think CV does respond to people encouraging him to be more proactive rather than just spraying shit around the site, so I try and do that until I lose my patience. I think in the instance the other day it was unfortunate that he put up an intentionally provocative post when feelings were already running high about his behaviour, because the subject he raised was important and it just got lost in the mess. I can also see that because of how ts is, he was probably limited in how he could bring that topic up, so in hindsight it was just a clusterfuck that no-one could do much about. For my part I wish I had taken a more proactive approach in my own critiques.

                      I basically walked out of that recent climate change thread because it was painful, and it was painfully obvious that by far the majority of people here wanted yet another round of talking rather than doing something. I have no tolerance for that and I’m sure it affected how I was posting for some time.

                      The stuff at the start was nothing to do with that, it was just a distraction. But I think the painful nature of the topic of the post probably contributed to the subsequent aggro. As for that convo *starting the whole thing, again I’ll disagree. It was just a continuation of something that’s pretty much continual here. My main comments at the start were to suggest we didn’t derail the thread and to suggest that the diversion get taken to OM. I’m not sure how that was a problem.

                      I don’t know if I am gatekeeper so much as caretaker who’s reached a point of frustration at the mess. Characterising CV’s comments as only something said in the heat of the moment misses the wider context and the impact he has on the site. If you think that I am also having a negative impact, please keep calling me on that (I don’t really get quite what you were meaning above, but I do remember you once telling me I was commenting too often, so I’ll have a think about that and whether I’d be better off making more comments from a more discerning place).

    • Bill 12.2
      15 March 2016 at 2:33 pm

      (cut and pasted from CC thread)

      Well we live in a patriarchy that favours white males over males of other skin hue, and so they tend to have accumulated more of the available privilege that comes courtesy of the status quo . And older people tend to have more invested in the status quo than younger people, so…sure, a broad brush stroke, but to say that idiots advocating the status quo can be sort of characterised as”white males over 40″ seems fair enough in my book.

      Nothing particularly sexist in it. Nothing particularly ageist in it. Absolutely nothing racist in it (can’t be racist towards whites – impossible)

      • Tim 12.2.1
        15 March 2016 at 2:52 pm

        Lol @ patriarchy and “can’t be racist towards whites” of course you can! It’s easy and people do it all the time, it just isn’t as harmful overall because of where power lies in western societies currently

        • adam 12.2.1.1
          15 March 2016 at 3:29 pm

          You can be bigoted towards towards white people, that is a given

          But, how on God’s green earth can the privileged group have racism directed at them?

          You get that the exercise of power is a fundamental aspect of racism, Tim?

          .

          • Tim 12.2.1.1.1
            15 March 2016 at 6:32 pm

            Because people of other races can have power over white people… White people aren’t invincible lol

            • Bill 12.2.1.1.1.1
              15 March 2016 at 7:09 pm

              Racism has very specific roots – Social Darwinism. Sure, other cultures may well have thought of themselves superior, but only one (as far as I’m aware) touted itself, essentially, as a race apart from and above the human race – humanity. That allowed, informed or excused colonisation by the white west of every non-white area of the world.

              That all means that a white person can be on the receiving end of discrimination but never racism, because racism’s a very particular type of discrimination that always holds ‘whiteness’ as above and better and ‘god given’ (as it were).

  13. joe90 13
    15 March 2016 at 1:51 pm

    Nice.
    /

  14. joe90 14
    15 March 2016 at 2:17 pm

    Today’s misanthropy red lining….

    Ali Alimadadi
    ‏@alialimadadi110

    #Hamoo,#Iraqi father who pushes handicapped daughter on #Greek border, seeking a better future beyond barbed wires

    https://twitter.com/alialimadadi110/status/709474642122117120

  15. Puckish Rogue 15
    15 March 2016 at 4:03 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77905481/labour-leader-andrew-little-warns-banks-cut-rates-or-face-compulsion

    When both National and the Greens think its a bad idea then you know you’ve really outdone yourself

    • alwyn 15.1
      15 March 2016 at 5:27 pm

      Gawd.
      Muldoon, Bolger, Clark and Key all took till their third term before they started displaying their Messiah complexes.
      Muldoon and Clark got really virulent cases. Remember how Piggy was going to save the world’s monetary system? Now Little has got the bug.
      Little has got it already and he has only had a year and a bit as leader of a minor party.
      Please Labour . Get things sorted out. Get rid of Little and all the deadwood.
      New Zealand cannot afford such a useless second party.

      • b waghorn 15.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 6:42 pm

        Ha ha right winger doesn’t like it when a leftwing poly says something that gets him a positive head line. # takingthefuckersonattheirowngame

        • alwyn 15.1.1.1
          15 March 2016 at 7:07 pm

          I have some very simple principles.
          Politicians should define what outcome they want.
          Then they should get out of the way.
          They should never try and run a business. If they do that they will never stop doing something stupid. They are unable to admit they have done something foolish so they keep throwing money at it rather than shut it down.

          They are also completely unaware that they really don’t know anything about it.
          That is why we have to get a new Government every few years. The new lot don’t have anything committed to the mistake so they are willing to fix things.

          If we get Little, or any other politician, making decisions about what a bank should charge in interest or who is to get loans they will make mistakes. Then they will use tax-payers money to hide the mistake. If the bank starts making unhappy noises they will give them more money to shut them up.

          In the case of the Reserve Bank for example Roger Douglas laid down the first principles, and left how it was done to the Governor. Everyone since has left the Governor to get on with it and they have done very well. If they don’t they can be sacked because the blame can be put on them, not the poly.
          Little seems to think he knows better. So did Muldoon and we ended up with stagflation.

          • b waghorn 15.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2016 at 7:36 pm

            Can I ask, if you are a man of principal, did you vote national in any of the last 3 elections, given that it was as obvious as hell to any one vaguely interested in politics that national us very dirty tactics around election time!

            • alwyn 15.1.1.1.1.1
              15 March 2016 at 8:17 pm

              Yes I did. And I didn’t find their tactics any different to their predecessors.
              I have voted in 11 of the last 12 elections. 5 Labour, 6 National and 1 when, living overseas I didn’t think I should vote.
              However in 2008 I thought Labour were old, tired and corrupt. A change was essential.
              They had the same people on 2011. Nothing had really changed had it? In general Labour were still useless so I voted for the ones who were better for New Zealand.
              2014 was even worse. Can you really imagine a no-hoper like Cunliffe as PM?
              Seriously? He seemed to have more DCMs than anyone I had ever heard of.
              Now? I want to see some alternative to the current Government who was competent but at the moment Labour looks just as useless as ever. At the moment Key still seems better for the country.
              I want a better option.
              I think Helen Clark was responsible for the Labour party woes. She wanted people there who were subservient to her and would do what she demanded. Not a rebel or even a free thinking person in the lot of them. And they are still there!
              By the way the word I used was PRINCIPLE, not PRINCIPAL. I bow down to no-one.

              • b waghorn …
                15 March 2016 at 8:28 pm

                ” Not a rebel or even a free thinking person in the lot of them.”
                Can I point that not one nat with exception to the odius corrupt Collins has ever slightly broken ranks in 7 years.
                For a laugh on day I asked the member for Taupo on her Facebook page what her views on keys ponytail pulling where, it got removed quickly I can tell you.
                By the way I was pissed with Clarke to , for giving our land to the southern gentry, and not working more with the greens. And I always saw goff as a caretaker leader.
                As for Cunliffe I found him a bit cringe worthy but he would of done a good job IMO .

    • Ad 15.2
      15 March 2016 at 6:10 pm

      Maybe, but it would still be good to see the Reserve Bank concentrate on more than just inflation. Its job is to balance the growth in the economy with inflation targets, and its concentrating on just inflation.

      There’s plenty more signals Little needs to make against the retail banks. He just needs the support of the Reserve Bank to do its actual job.

  16. joe90 16
    15 March 2016 at 6:05 pm

    Things looking pretty damn shity for Israeli Arabs

    About half of Israel’s Jews support the transfer of Arabs to other countries, according to a survey by the American Pew Research Center published Tuesday. The poll was conducted among Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis from the end of 2014 until the middle of 2015, before the latest wave of terror.

    One of the questions in the survey, based on face-to-face interviews of 5,601 individuals, asked to what degree they agreed with the following statement: “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” The result, among the Jewish respondents: Twenty-one percent “strongly agree” and 27 percent “mostly agree.” If those two groups are combined, about half of Israeli Jews questioned – 48 percent – support transfer of Arab citizens. On the other hand, a similar proportion – 46 percent – say they oppose such a move, with 29 percent saying that they “don’t really agree” and 17 percent responding that they “don’t agree at all” to the expulsion of Arabs.

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.707589

    • swordfish 16.1
      15 March 2016 at 9:11 pm

      Yep, but nothing new in that.

      Back in 2002, polls suggested more than 40% of Israelis agreed with the expulsion (either through force or encouragement) of Israeli Arabs. By 2006, that sentiment had risen to almost 50% (forced transfer) rising to over 55% (if encouragement of Arab emigration was included).

      Meanwhile, an overwhelming majority of Israelis (polls have generally suggested well over 80%) have long opposed a two-state settlement grounded in international Law (in which Israel withdraws to the pre-June 67 border and allows a significant Palestinian Capital in East Jerusalem). In other words, the Israeli public fully supports the rejectionist stance of consecutive Israeli Govts over the decades.

      What the majority of Israelis do support (in some polls, by a very large majority) is the sort of “settlement” of the “conflict” where Israel annexes all of the major settlement Blocs, splitting the West Bank into separate little cantons, annexes most of Jerusalem and nullifies the Right of Return.

      Recent polls have also suggested a majority of Israelis support Jewish/Arab segregation on public transport, 55% supported segregated recreational facilities, large minorities agree that Arab-Israelis shouldn’t be employed in hospitals, nursing institutions or kindergartens. 75% opposed living in the same apartment buildings as Arabs, 55% believed Israeli-Arabs didn’t have the ability to reach the same level of cultural development as Jews, 61% were unwilling to have an Arab visit their home, 64% believe Arab-Israelis endanger the state of Israel because of their high birth rates. And a large minority considered Arab culture inferior.

      A 2008 poll found 40% of Jewish Israelis believed Arab Israelis should not be allowed to vote, with 78% against Arab politicians having any involvement in govt and 80% opposed to Arabs being involved in “important decisions”. A 2010 poll found 57% agreed that Israeli Human Rights organisations that expose “immoral conduct by Israel” shouldn’t be allowed to operate freely. Majorities also favoured punishing Israeli citizens and journalists who either support sanctions (BDS) or report on facts that reflect badly on Israel’s international reputation.

      And, of course, polls suggest overwhelming Israeli support for the IDF’s regular massacres and carpet-bombing of Gaza and Lebanon.

  17. whateva next? 17
    15 March 2016 at 6:43 pm

    Just enjoying watching questions in the house today on playback, the best bit is being able to fast forward National MP’s vacuous responses and patsy questions.

  18. Mike C 18
    15 March 2016 at 7:20 pm

    Is it true that President Obama is going to come to New Zealand soon … or is it just another vicious rumour spread by the National Party? LOL.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1
      15 March 2016 at 9:41 pm

      Key is on a build up to an early election so he is going to do everything he can to get Obama over here.

      • repateet 18.1.1
        15 March 2016 at 10:25 pm

        Getting Obama here will make his Richie McCaw and All Black suck-a-thon pale into total insignificance.

        Ironically so many of the anti-Obama mob are Key supporters but they will go into a suck up frenzy if their lord and master gets his way.

        As an aside, how much would any such visit cost us?

        • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1
          15 March 2016 at 10:30 pm

          tbh I’m not sure who bears the costs of these visits. I suspect the US State Dept bears much of the cost but we will be providing a shit load of outer perimeter security, state events/banquets, closing down large areas of cities at Secret Service request etc.

      • Mike C 18.1.2
        16 March 2016 at 8:51 am

        @Colonial Viper

        Why do you say that John Key is building up to an early General Election?

        You are the first person I have heard mention this.

  19. Hami Shearlie 19
    15 March 2016 at 11:13 pm

    I wonder who this is? Reminds me of another “person of some public interest” from up North who is facing some serious charges in court very soon! Wonder when that case will start rolling out?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11606101