Open mike 15/05/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 15th, 2010 - 35 comments
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35 comments on “Open mike 15/05/2010”

  1. Jenny 1

    In association with University of Auckland, ECOFEST presents a panel discussion:

    “A Financial Transactions Tax — Can Robin Hood save the world’s poorest?”.

    Tim Hazledine, Professor of Economics, University of Auckland;

    Jim Stanford, Economist, Canadian Auto Workers’ Union;

    Barry Coates, Executive Director, Oxfam New Zealand.

    Moderated by Yvonne Underhill-Sem, Director of Development Studies, University of Auckland.

    Our panel will discuss the Financial Transactions Tax, a tiny tax on banks whichcould provide billions of dollars of vital funding for tackling poverty andclimate change.

    There’s growing international momentum behind the so called ROBIN HOOD TAX, so come along and find out what it’s all about!

    When; Monday, May 17, 6pm – 7.30 pm,

    Where; 039 Clock Tower, University of Auckland City Campus

  2. schrodigerscat 2

    Ah the Inquisition doing more good work.

    Bring the cane back in schools- Bob McCoskrie.

    Lie down with dogs …

    curia inquisition google hit me

    • D14 2.1

      Does McCroskie mean that both boys and girls will be able to be caned?

    • Alexandra 2.2

      So unsurprisingly the light smack on the bottom with a loving hand has morphed into beating the child with a whipping cane.

    • KINTO 2.3

      I’d like to see a teacher try and give some misbehaving 16 year old gang prospect the cane, infact, even more I’d like to see Mr McCoskrie try.

      • Mac1 2.3.1

        I remember early in my teaching career being told by a father that I had his full permission to cane his son. I made a mental note never to cane that boy. (Capcha ‘remind’)

        I gave up caning within a year of that, challenged by a colleague and mate, who remembered the injustice done to him. For me, the primary motivation to cane was vengeance. It didn’t work, but finding other ways did.

        It’s harder now, and Kinto’s example is easier to find. But that which made him a gang prospect is not going to help him through it- the violence of parental heavy handedness, of drugs and alcohol, of poor familial relationships, sexual abuse and loss all being a part of many stories.

  3. Soy Sauce of knowledge 3

    Surely youth needs to be taught empathy not violence? Will caning really teach anything other than fear, mistrust and hate? If McCroskie were to happily subject himself to a public caning for using others’ fear and ignorance for his own ends and walk away with no resentment then maybe he could prove that indeed violence can be the answer.

    • Ron 3.1

      My email to the journo:

      Hi Vaimoana

      I don’t know what the standards are at The Herald these days but several things about your article seemed out of whack.

      Surely when someone with as extreme ideas as McCoskrie makes a comment it behoves you to get a response from a more considered source – someone who has studied the efficacy of caning schools, for instance, or teachers themselves who are, after all, the ones in the firing line.

      Secondly – it’s time that organisations like Curia were identified correctly. Some research companies have a reputation for quality work and others are really fronts for political agendas. While I wouldn’t suggest the Curia deliberately skews results it certainly undertakes “research” in order to illustrate the arguments of particular political points of view. To allow readers the opportunity to make up their own minds about the value of the information, we just need a little more information. In this case you could have just said “operated by Right-wing blogger, Family First chearleader and National Party PR man, David Farrar”.

      Thirdly – We don’t have any “anti-smacking laws” in New Zealand”. I and you know that you are referring to the Section 51 amendment. By calling it anything else you are aligning yourself with a political movement who deliberately misnamed the process for their own purposes. I’m sure you have no wish to do that.

      Lastly – the Crimes (Section 59)Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with corporal punishment in schools. Corporal punishment was banned in schools a very long time ago and to confuse the two issues is just bad reporting.

  4. Bill 4

    All this oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

    If it is terrible that tens of thousands of oil be leaked into the ocean, why is it not equally terrible that it is leaked into the atmosphere?

    Or why is it not terrible to disguise it as chemicals and plastics before spreading it all over the ocean and land?

    Why is it that the gyres in the Atlantic and Pacifict that no waves or storm systems can break up and that are “harmful for fish, sea mammals and at the top of the food chain, potentially humans” as is an oil slick, not a focus of international outrage and proposals for action?

    Just a wee few questions that are forming in my mind.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      All good questions and I think the answers are

      1.) The great big oil spill in the GoM can be seen
      2.) We can potentially do something about it whereas the gyres are so huge with so much rubbish in them it is, essentially, physically impossible to clean them up

      Of course, the rational thing to do was not create them in the first place but we just didn’t think that far ahead.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    Steve Keen: Is it all “Supply and Demand”?

    Their rhetoric will rely on the deeply ingrained received wisdom that Australia has a ‘housing shortage’, and no politician will want to do the hard work of differentiating between a genuine shortage in housing stock (which we don’t have) and a shortage of ‘affordable housing’ which we do have.

    And why won’t they acknowledge this distinction? Simply, because admitting that it is only the prices of houses that are dysfunctional, and not simply the supply, would be too much even for their loyal voters.

    A good question and one that needs to be asked about housing in NZ. Do we actually a housing shortage or do we have a dysfunctional housing market?

    We need to bury the ‘housing shortage’ myth, but to do so requires a shift in thinking. Economists follow a model of the economy that is as realistic as the view that the Earth is the centre of the universe, and the Sun, Moon and planets revolve around it. It took the GFC to expose just how unrealistic this model is—a model that ignores credit and pretends that everything happens in equilibrium. We instead live in a credit-driven world which is always in disequilibrium. Until economists and policy makers recognize this, we are likely to have policies that address symptoms but not causes, and ultimately make the problem worse rather than better.

    Emphasis mine

    This is the crux of the problem. The economics that we are having forced upon us by the universities, government and big business are delusional. It’s like everyone got into a narrow rut about how the economy worked in the 18th century and nobody’s been able to get out of it since.

    • Quoth the Raven 5.1

      Maybe it’s because I read mostly Austrian economists, but the ones I read certainly don’t ignore credit (its the whole crux of Austrian business cycle analysis), and they recognise that the market is a system always in disequilibrium (credit driven or not). I think what’s happening is Keen is arguing against a strawman he’s created.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        What strawman did he create?

        • Quoth the Raven

          In general Keen puts himself in opposition to some amorphous mass of economists who he attributes positions that don’t to me seem to jibe with reality, such as here where he says “a model that ignores credit and pretends that everything happens in equilibrium” but who holds to this model? Is Keen just tilting at windmills?

    • Zorr 6.1

      Just a quick point with regards those storys and Obama:

      I would hesitate to so quickly attribute them as “Obamas fault” and they would be more accurately labeled “Americas problem”. I feel that you will always be disappointed whenever you raise a human on a giant fuck off pedestal. Obama is a brilliant politician, not the Messiah.

      The first two to do with the nukes and Israeli policy – par for the course for any politician partaking in the military industrial complex. All of these kinds of actions are unsurprising considering some of the initial moves made by Obama upon entering office (such as continuing funding to develop new jets – can’t remember the acronym for them any more) and a strong Zionist state policy seems to be a prerequisite for election to any level of office, much the same as the requirement of being religious.

      On the final one to do with the autistic child, how does that have anything to do with Obama? It is a shame that such storys occur but it is more of a result of a stupidly complex society being ridiculously paranoid and litigious rather than something to be directly associated with the President.

      Just to reiterate. Obama: excellent human politician, not the Messiah.

      • freedom 6.1.1

        go watch, read, listen to and generally research the hell out of America’s history for the last two hundred years and compare it to the official history and you may find some of your answers.

        anyone that blames a politician for a military-industrial [read social] problem is obviously naive and should seek professional help immediately

        the puppets get the laughs, the tears, the joys of the day
        the scriptwriters prefer to watch from the wings

        capcha: deals
        gotta love those bots

        • Zorr

          I have no idea what the hell you are even trying to say there freedom? Are you agreeing with me or QtR or is it just that the sound of your own typing is music to your ears?

          I have noticed you do tend to jump straight in with over effusive statements not bothering to stop to consider whether it will make sense to anyone reading it. If you could try reposting this in a more understandable format I would gladly take your PoV on board. As it stands though, wtf? Essentially what you just said is “all yous iz moronz – go book yourself” – not really constructive or informative.

          • freedom

            i was actually replying neither to QTR or yourself Zorr but to the content of the references. If this has contributed to a misconstrued intent then you have my sincere apologies.
            As my friends would testify i most definitely do consider things before commenting but i do not spend hours composing the response. I do let words emerge freely as it were, and because i choose to use less staid language than some, i do not see it as reason for ridicule.

            In my career as an Artist I pretty much ‘think’ 24/7. (as do many others) where my circumstances differ is that I have constructed a life that does allow for a great deal of reflection. The cost of this lifestyle is life on a very low income, no family of my own and large periods of isolation. (many of life’s less favourable people, some unfortunate decisions and the failure of our courts have also contributed to this state of being )
            There are many who may recognise these traits, some may even know envy of them.
            All i do know is in my day to day life i have the respect and encouragement from wide and varied sectors of society.

            I take umbridge at the “all yous iz moronz go book yourself” as i never consciously talk down to anyone or assume that they do not have the ability for creative reasoning or the wish to utilise rational thought processes.

            In response to the rest of your comment i am admittedly tired of the pointless cyclic arguments that society has over the ills of the world. Greed, willful malice, corruption, and a thirst to get there first are certainly evident throughout human history and all i see day in day out are the repititious actions of frightened moths wondering why the flame keeps killing them, neither able nor willng to make the paradigm shift away from self destruction.

            i have re-read my earlier comment above a few times and Zor, i disagree. It is fairly clear in its statement and if it is a question of grammar or punctuality then the layout/format should expose itself as ‘Poetry/Art/Creative freedom and be accepted as such. America et al has a schoolbook history that is very different from its actual history, so where is the confusion? If you do not believe that is true then there is nothing i can say.

      • Quoth the Raven 6.1.2

        Silly me I thought Obama was supposed to represent change. Instead what we have is a man who has renewed his predecessor’s patriot twice, who has escalated the war in Afghanistan, who has ordered many more drone attacks on Pakistan than his predecessor, who has continued the modus operandi of executive power and state secrets of his predecessor and who now claims the right to kill any US citizen without trial.
        On the nuclear issue we had him signing an agreement simply to replace an expired one and which is largely the same as what Reagan signed decades ago, yet the sycophants came out and proclaimed some great step forward from Obama and now we see him spending $80b on his nukes. On Israel it was those same sycophants who were praising an imaginary tough stance from Obama not long ago.
        It’s not me who raised Obama up on a pedestal. It’s not me, unlike many on the left, who raised him to the level of a messiah.I have been completely unsurprised by what a venal and callous President he’s turned out to be.
        You talk of a “stupidly complex” and “ridicuously paranoid” society yet what is Obama doing, by carrying on like his predeccors, except entrenching it?
        He is an excellent politician I’ll grant you that but as a human being he is appalling.

  6. Bill 7

    Maybe it’s just me, but is there one law for terrorists of one persuasion and another for all the others?

    “Neo-Nazi given 10 years for making chemical weapons.”

    • freedom 7.1

      i don’t get your point, what are you referring to? He got ten years for the crime of manufacturing a Poisonous Agent.

      Are you referring to the double satndard of international law where hundreds of thousands of lives can be destroyed by largescale Multinational Arms manufacture including Chemical Warfare Agents, Depleted Uranium shells, cluster bombs, Landmines, automatic Assault rifles, Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, Anti-Missile Drones, Thermonuclear devices, Unmanned Ariel Vehicles, Sonic Weapons, ….etc …etc …etc

      If that is the point you were referring to then , yeah, there is a double standard, hell it’s a quadruple standard with three twists and a forward somesault thrown in to wow you with the sheer audacity of it all as we sit transfixed by the authority of greed and tyranny in front of the flashing lights going ooooh look at the new [insert favourite product here]

      • Bill 7.1.1

        Like I say, maybe it’s a mis-perception on my part, but neo nazis don’t get identified, or treated in the same way as ‘official’ terrorists who on possession of ricin would have been charged ( at least by msm and probably by the courts as well) with possession of a weapon of mass destruction

        And it would have been all over the domestic and international news heightening unease and perception of imminent threat from ‘official’ sources of terrorism.

        And the sentence would have been far in excess of 10 years and 2 years for the 19 year old in a young offenders institution.

        But this case appears to be played down. It was ‘only’ enough ricin to kill several people and it’s implied that it wasn’t even that dangerous ’cause he kept it in a jar in the kitchen.

        Compare that to the msm party time and hyperbole when the cops find unspecified ‘bomb making materials’ and ‘weapons caches’ when the person can be designated as one of the ‘official’ terrorists. ( Bomb making materials as likely to be bleach…or sugar…or plant food and the weapons cache to comprise a meat cleaver, a rusty razor blade and a cricket bat).

        Those are the double standards I was attempting to allude to.

        • Lew

          And then there’s the RWLNJ who flew his plane into the IRS building — no official label of terrorism applied to his actions.


          • Bill

            Ah yes. For the individual not assigned to a group or creed…Stack and all the poor bastards who ‘went postal’….blame them…write them off and ridicule them as part and parcel of a process aiming at ignoring systemic causes and shutting down all enquiry. Works a treat, dunnit? Mostly. LRWNJ indeed.

            “Stack’s manifesto ends with two evocative sentences: “The communist creed: from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: from each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.’

            Poignant studies of the U.S. rustbelt reveal comparable outrage among individuals who have been cast aside as state-corporate programs close plants and destroy families and communities.

            An acute sense of betrayal comes readily to people who believed they had fulfilled their duty to society in a moral compact with business and government, only to discover they had been only instruments of profit and power.”


  7. prism 8

    Punishment generally happens after the event. How is caning or other disincentives going to act on the emotional, impulsive centres of a brain that is hotly on track to punish, regain mana, revenge etc? How to stop the hot hurt and anger from translating into cold, determined action.

    It is annoying seeing such people as Bob McCroskie having so little need to earn a crust that he has time to make these vacuous comments, and get reported, or why should he be paid to do so by such agencies as Family First which seems like a charity suitable for stylish middle-class dames and men who want to go into the public speaking circuit. The ain’t it awful brigade.

    More money to Jim Moriarty and his like and to Family Start would give exponential benefits I reckon.
    captcha – disturbed!

  8. Pascal's bookie 9

    Shorter NYT:

    “They’ve no idea how much oil is spilling, and they aren’t doing anything to find out.”

  9. prism 10

    Discussion tomorrow morning on Chris Laidlaw re Auckland and what is it changing to, how many Auckland facets are there? 11 am

    Also on 3 strikes in California. How do we deal with a nasty criminal rapist etc in NZ? Started at 14 with father both assaulting a young woman on the street, and now man of 24 an apparently lost individual. He attacked his cell mate when in custody etc and doesn’t seem capable of changing. He has a lifetime ahead to go on causing grief to others and himself. Would three strikes suit this sort of dangerous, predatory person?

    9:45 Ron Givens Three Strikes
    The Past President of the Prison Chaplain’s Association, California, Rev Givens gives us a first-hand look at how California’s three-strikes law works, what it means for the prison population, and the impact that similar legislation could have in New Zealand. He’s been speaking in this country as a guest of the New Zealand Howard League.

  10. prism 11

    14 May 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Get that occasionally. Give me your OS and Browser versions and I’ll see if I can reproduce. Ajax isn’t exactly stable
    Is anyone else getting issues with the re-edit? (answer in OpenMike please)..

    Just got back on blog. We use Linux and Opera 10. (Like the new faint numbers unobtrusive and useful. I’ve just noticed them.) Thanks

  11. Bob McCoskrie 12

    Might be helpful for your commentators to actually read the research regarding corporal punishment and see what NZ’ers actually think.

    • Marty G 12.1

      Bob. This isn’t the 19th century. We’re not going back to a world where people are allowed to beat up people who piss them off under the guise of authority.

  12. Pascal's bookie 13


    David Bedford is chair of Enterprise North Canterbury. Enterprise North Canterbury is a major force behind the planned Hurunui Water Project, which would drain the Hurunui river dry in order to give the water to greedy dairy farmers. David Bedford is also one of Canterbury’s dictators. And the dictatorship wants to appoint him to the Hurunui-Waiau zone committee to decide on water issues in North Canterbury. But apparently this isn’t a conflict of interest, no – its just using his local knowledge.

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