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Open mike 15/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, July 15th, 2014 - 142 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

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The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

142 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2014 ”

  1. mickysavage 1

    So political pressure was applied to Immigration NZ to allow Kim Dotcom to STAY in New Zealand even though they knew at the time of the FBI investigation …

    Wow, just wow …


    • felix 1.1

      hmmm, and all the way from the top.

      *jaws theme plays 😉

      • Tracey 1.1.1

        I think you will find that nice, honest Mr Key is just a victim of all these people who keep letting him down. The herald waiting til he was away on hols is a coincidence.

        • Kiwiri

          “I know you know” ?

          • Rosie

            😀 +1 Kiwiri

            “I know you know”. That was a great line and now the chickens have come home to roost…

        • karol

          Or Key’s sudden decision to go off the NZ grid to Hawaii now explained? When Key’s holiday was suddenly in the news, I wondered what might be coming up.

          • srylands

            You seriously think the Prime Minister has gone on vacation to Hawaii because of (yet another) media installment on KDC? Could you say it again so I can be gob smacked again?

            • felix

              You’re right, it’s probably just (yet another) coincidence of Key being home in Hawaii whenever bad news is expected.

              You are familar with the OIA process are you not?

          • Tracey

            Come now karol, only the naive believe nothing is planned and bad news coming out when Key is out of the country is just coincidence.

      • David H 1.1.2

        And what now Mr Brainfade Key? Do you still not remember a larger than life millionaire in your own electorate?

    • Tracey 1.2

      Collins has her “oops”, and now this, and all while johnny is on holiday… coincidence?

      • Kiwiri 1.2.1

        Time and time again, this government conveniently goes on holiday.

        • Kiwiri
          Its amazing jusr how many holidays this playboy PM has ,all in his mansions and classy flats.
          When one realises that we in Aotearoa have thousands of homeless and people living in garages it’s an insult to have this PM hoping around the world and staying in houses big enough to accomodate at least four families. What ever happened to our decent fair society .

    • Tautoko Viper 1.3

      “The SIS tried to block Kim Dotcom’s residency application but dropped their objection 90 minutes after being told there was “political pressure” to let the tycoon into New Zealand, secret documents from the spy agency reveal.”

      And the Minister in Charge of the SIS is ……John Key


    • Tiger Mountain 1.4

      Labour’s associate NZSIS spokesman, Grant Robertson, said the claims of political pressure were “extraordinary”.
      “I’ve never heard of a situation like this before. Political pressure means politicians.
      “There are serious questions about what John Key knew and when.”

      Hmm, indeed, ShonKey’s ‘misremembering’ of when he first knew of Kim Dotcom is going to be revisited. He is the minister of NZSIS. Well sort of, when it suits him.

    • Tracey 1.5

      Was it easier or harder for the FBI to launch its extradition of DotCom if he had PR in NZ? At least with PR he would stay in NZ, and they could target him with a helpful NZ Minister in charge of all things skullduggeryish?

      A few weeks ago I posted something my brother had told me about the high roller categoiry and why he thought KDC was SO pissed off with NZ govt, including Banks, namely the Nats had used him as their highroller pin up boy for their new and hurried 2009 policy… but when he wanted a mattress they ran for the hills and colluded with the US.

    • veutoviper 1.6

      Wow indeed.

      The article,and papers released to Fisher, also appear to validate KDC’s claims that the lifting of NZSIS opposition to his application for permanent residency in Oct 2010 was tied to knowledge of the impending FBI/NZ Police operations etc – and that the NZSIS head, Warren Tucker, knew. (KDC made the latter claim in a brief tweet in later 2013).

      And Key still claims he did not know about KDC until a day before the raid in Jan 2012? I feel a Tui Ad coming on.

      I am confused by Laila Harre’s comments in the Herald article (and in her interview on Morning Report about half an hour ago) and cannot yet figure out where she is coming from. IIRC at the time she was appointed as Leader of the IP, she said something to the effect that she would not be getting involved in KEC’s legal issues, but here she is commenting … Could be some interesting discussions KDC/Harre when they start their Internet MANA road trip with Hone Harawira today in the far north.

      PS – if anyone missed it, last week KDC’s extradition hearing was again delayed until 16 Feb 2015.

      • Tracey 1.6.1

        I DID miss it. It was going to be prior tot he election wasn’t it?

        Laila Harre is commenting on allegations of a government not following its on constitutional process. She also says she would have denied Mr DotCom PR on the basis of the SIS block. For her to not say something on an important issue such as constitutional abuse would give more pause. IMO.

        • veutoviper

          The extradition hearing was due to start in the North Shore District Court Monday last week, July 7, but all indications from the other legal proceedings currently underway were that a delay was likely. Also KDC took his children to Queenstown about July 4 for 10 days’ holiday so was not ‘in town’ for July 7 – another indicator. (Mona also went to Queenstown – and KDC tweeted a lot of pictures of them all, including Mona’s birthday celebrations there. Apparently, friends still but no reconciliation.)

          Other ongoing legal proceedings cover the release of KDC’s computer contents etc, compensation sought by KDC et al, the release of KDC’s assets, and the newer civil claims by Hhollywood moguls to seize his assets. All very confusing and complicated, but there is a hearing on one or other of these due on July 30. Will see what I can dig out in terms of links if I have time later today.

          Re Laila Harre’s comments, now I am a bit more awake, I think you are right – she is commenting on the lack of following due process etc and silence would have caused more speculation. This approach is also probably with KDC’s agreement etc.

          • karol

            I think Harre is also taking a step to proactively present herself as being independent of Dotcom re- his legal and extradition cases.

            • Tracey

              I agree. Whether you believe it or not, she has today, by implication, stated she is not a DotCom puppet. Guyon struggled with the concept a bit.

              Like many he can’t imagine how you can be paid to do something by someone and NOT do everything that person wants you to do, AND assumes that because DotCom bankrolled it he would want to tell Harre what she can and can’t talk about, and enforce it.

              • karol

                Actually, Harre’s statements don’t mean in practice she’s totally independent of KDC, just that she is intentionally presenting herself in that way.

                She seems fully briefed on all the back evidence of the KDC case, and quick off the mark with a statement.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Guyon struggled with the concept a bit.

                That’s probably because he, seemingly, expects everyone to be a puppet of someone rich and powerful.

          • Olwyn

            From memory, KDC brought this up himself at the CGSB meeting in Auckland town hall. His point was not about whether or not he should be allowed permanent residence, but that the speed with which the decision was made suggested, in hindsight, that he had been set up for all that followed. So I don’t think he would have a problem with Harre’s saying what she has said.

            • veutoviper

              I think you are right about KDC saying that at the GCSB meeting; and I also seem to recall him tweeting about it and/or mentioning it in other interviews etc. Re Harre’s remarks, I was still half asleep when I first read the Herald article, and now agree with Karol etc re Harre’s comments.

              Chris Keall has now posted an article on NBR which I have linked to and commented on at the dedicated post, which covers Harre’s comments and is worth reading.

              National wanted Dotcom to stay in NZ

              • Olwyn

                Thanks for re-posting that link. It seems consistent to me that the leader of a party opposed to cronyism should stand up for the principles that constrain governments rather than KDC himself, and I think he would agree with that. Harre is depicted as being in a “tricky position” because she is not acting as the National Party would under equivalent circumstances. Instead of trying to put her finger on the scales in her mate’s favour, as they would, she is looking at how those scales are supposed to work.

      • Rosie 1.6.2

        Thanks VV. I also missed that info about Dotcoms extradition hearing being delayed until Feb 2015

    • Enough is Enough 1.7

      I think we have nailed the bastard now. This will roll on into the campaign and Key will be faced with continuous questions of why he is a liar.

  2. Philj 2

    Police manipulate the crime data. Is this not a crime? I.e if an engineer, doctor or an accountant did that they would be …. probably promoted. Hey this is wild west noo zeeland! What other government stats can we trust? Health, education, poverty, housing, growth, river polution, foreign ownership ….. There is no corruption in NZ! We are top of the Transparency International non corruption stakes! Doesn’t say much about the standard around the west.

  3. “..Scientists reveal how THC – found in cannabis – ‘could slow cancer tumour growth’..

    New study from University of East Anglia reveals important details of marijuana’s ‘poorly understood’ anti-cancer properties..”



    • bad12 3.1

      Ah Phillip, playing the ‘other string’ on your two stringed violin today are we…

    • Rosie 3.2

      Phillip. I know your dual lifestyle interests are important to you, but with respect, I have to say, it’s a bit much hearing about it every single morning on Open Mike.

      I’m not discrediting some of the valid points you raise, but asking if you have considered what it’s like for readers who get the vegan n’ drug news roundup of the day, every day? It’s bordering on the evangelical comrade.

      • Tiger Mountain 3.2.1

        Heh, ‘Open Phil’ (TRP) or ‘The Phil ’n’ Bad Show’?

        Over exposure can lead to unexpected outcomes as the actor said to the Bishop.

        • Rosie

          Once Pete George was gone it was all on for the Phil n’ Bad show (or breakfast with Phil n’ Bad).

          I admit the show is entertaining, but it is however just one aspect of the morning vegan n’ drug round up.

          • phillip ure

            if on my morning rounds..i find a story proving the cancer-preventing causes of cannabis..i will post it..

            ..if i don’t nobody will..

            ..so..y’know..!..stick in in yr pipe..eh..?..rosie..and others..

      • Rodel 3.2.2

        …………………… hear!

        • phillip ure

          gee rodel..!

          ..yr name is not at all familiar..

          ..have you ever said anything here of the slightest fucken interest..?..to anyone..?

          ..care to link it to us..

          ..or do you just whine on cue..?

          ..and that that weirdo bad..and his gibbering sidekick choose to follow me around..

          ..is not really down to me..

          ..so..you can just ‘pipe it’ too..eh..?

          ..and don’t take offence if i now studiously avoid you..

          ..as you of course can do with my comments..

          • Rosie

            OK phil. That is the response I was expecting, so no surprises there.

            I would have thought your own site would be adequate for the promotion of your views and posting of news, so I’m not sure why you feel the need such frequent vegan n drug themed posts here. Nothing stopping you of course. I’ll just continue to scroll on by to the tune of walk on by when you are posting on those two topics.

            As for Rodel, he/she has been around for some time, you just haven’t noticed.

            • Rodel

              Ta Rosie.
              I’m sometimes hesitant and potentially embarrassed to recommend to friends that they should read ‘The Standard’ as a left leaning blog site when it’s dominated by people who are focussed on veganism, marihuanism and fuckenism in incoherent language, obsessions which have little to do with what I believe is the main intent of the site.
              And yes I usually skip by but was impressed by your kind, considerately worded and respectful rebuke.

              • Rosie

                Lols Rodel. Go right ahead and proudly recommend TS to your friends! Your friends will quickly come to realise that phil is unique and once they see the almighty rows he has with people that don’t meet his expectations or agree with him, they’ll get the picture, understand that he’s a man going along on his own buzz and not be put off.

                Phil and I have had these chats before, so it’s nothing new. I just got a bit annoyed by all the dominant discussion about GE vegan milk over the last few days so felt I had to air that annoyance. Usually I would just ignore it but the soapbox was taking up all the room.

                My main issue is with people telling people how to live their lives, and not respecting the choices that others make. Education and gentle encouragement of those of wanting to make healthy changes in their lives is helpful but preaching isn’t – (hence the evangelical reference).

                In saying all that I do believe phil has a fine sense of humour and a quick wit. I like the way he delivers his words, once you get past the formatting of them (and when they’re not angry spiteful words) – It’s just those swings into fanaticism that get in the way.

                • Rodel

                  Your self restraint is commendable.
                  I don’t think the word ‘wit’ is fully appropriate but I admire your therapeutic perspective and persistence.

                  • Rosie

                    Some posts require zen like amounts of self restraint, but I do try to remember that ultimately we’re all on the same side, brothers and sisters, even when one of us chooses to be the problem child for the day 🙂

          • bad12

            A gibbering weirdo Phillip, you are being eloquent today, tho i do fear that you were looking in the mirror when that thought was provoked by the crashing together of your remaining two working neurons,

            The ‘proof’, apparently from a study in dear old England, has been published, the misuse of Marijuana over a long term gives you brain damage,(very much evident from the digital scribble you produce),

            i will try and hunt out a link later…

    • i see the herald is now carrying this story..

      ..which is unusual for a pot-bashing/prohibition-supporting rag like that..

      “..Dr Peter McCormick, from the University of East Anglia’s (UEA) school of pharmacy, said THC’s anti-cancer properties have been known for some time – but the study had identified the receptors responsible for fighting tumours.

      “Our findings help explain some of the well-known but still poorly understood effects of THC at low and high doses on tumour growth,” he said…”

  4. Tiger Mountain 4

    Heartwarming to see the support for Palestinians at The Standard yesterday, and while some of the apologists happily squawk ‘points of order’ as people (ie Palestinians) die; the international tide does seem to be turning on the Israeli apartheid state.

    Show public solidarity;
    Rally for all victims of Israeli brutality
    Auckland, Saturday July 19, 2pm Aotea Square

  5. Skinny 5

    Key branded as “a rouge currency trader, applying his shyster traits running Government.” Don’t ya love the thought of Key in the dock, they should charge him with treason.   


    • Tracey 5.1

      I cannot for the life of me see what law he is supposed to have broken here?

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        The actual laws that the charges were brought under were mentioned in the original charges. Essentially, IIRC, it amounts to aiding and abetting Banks in his crime.

    • how long has key been using heavy-make-up..?

      ..are you saying since his early days as a money-trader..?


      ..who knew..?

    • Kiwiri 5.3

      A small number of us around the country chatted about conducting a people’s “mock trial” of John Key, broadcast around the country via the internet and Youtubed, that can be launched before the general election.

      We are happy for anybody who has the network and contacts to run with this. (Need to check this will be ok with electoral laws.)

    • srylands 5.4

      If you had read his biography, you would realise he was not a rouge currency trader. They usually end up in prison – although I don’t think you mean rouge ones.

      Also, can you please explain which element of the treason provisions you see him being charfed with?


      Or are you being absurd for entertainment?

      • Tracey 5.4.1

        “Or are you being absurd for entertainment?”

        And take your job? God forbid.

      • Tracey 5.4.2

        “charfed”, is that olde english?

        • deep throat

          no its just moranspeak!
          you know.
          tories who think they are erudite but the more they open their mouths the more they mangle the language.

      • deep throat 5.4.3

        history will judge him as a disgrace to the human race.
        no matter what he is charfed with!

      • framu 5.4.4

        you mean keys hagiography?

        hardly likely to say hes anything but leigt is it

        i dont know whats stupider – that you seem to believe such nonsense or that you thought it would carry any weight with… anyone but the love struck

      • framu 5.4.5

        i would say all of these count if you include economic war under the war category

        b) levies war against New Zealand; or

        (c) assists an enemy at war with New Zealand, or any armed forces against which New Zealand forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between New Zealand and any other country; or

        (d) incites or assists any person with force to invade New Zealand; or

        (e) uses force for the purpose of overthrowing the Government of New Zealand; or

        (f) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in this section.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.4.6

        Obviously, we need to update treason to include:
        Working with a foreign nation against the best interests of New Zealand

        But as it stands we could probably find something under Part 6.

  6. I clicked on the dotcom topic and was redirected to the following link. Is it legit?


    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      Shouldn’t have done that unless you accidentally clicked on an advert instead.

  7. bad12 8

    From my wireless, the World Health Organization has declared the Ebola Virus ‘out of control’ in Central Africa…

  8. Jrobin 9

    Srylands, yes it woud be ideal but even the most extreme optimists among us can’t hope for prison. He will probably just head back to his philosophical Homeland.

  9. Minarch 10

    Tory child abuse whistleblower: ‘Margaret Thatcher knew all about underage sex ring among ministers’


    this whole Fernbridge, Fairbank & Yewtree situation in the UK is getting pretty serious

    John Lydon talks about Jimmy Saville and his ‘seediness’ during an interview recorded for BBC radio

    looks like rotten knew what was going on !

  10. greywarbler 11

    Interesting radionz this am.


    Climate Voter group to take Electoral Commission to court ( 3′ 9″ )
    06:45 A group of environmental organisations are taking the Electoral Commission to court over a decision that would require their “Vote for the Climate” initiative to be subject to electoral rules.

    and again – a longer version
    Climate campaigners go to high court over classification ( 4′ 49″ )
    07:40 A group of climate change campaigners are going to the High Court after their website was ruled an election advertisement.

  11. greywarbler 12

    srylands and gosman
    The odd couple. Where would we be without them?

    • Rosie 12.1

      In a less frowny brow place?

      • Tiger Mountain 12.1.1

        Their natural lowbrow habitats, drumroll, Slater & Farrar might get SS and Gosman down after a while so The Standard is a refreshing change for them at least.

  12. Morrissey 13

    More than 40,000 people call on BBC to reflect reality of Gaza’s occupation
    July 14, 2014

    Noam Chomsky, John Pilger and Ken Loach are among more than 40,000 signatories who have signed an open letter to the BBC calling on its journalists to reflect the reality of Gaza’s occupation while reporting on Israel’s current assault.

    MPs have also signed the letter which will be delivered to the BBC tomorrow (15th July) during a protest outside its Portland Place, London, headquarters.

    The letter reminds the BBC that Israel is bombing a refugee population which is being held under occupation and siege. It is a population which has no army, navy or air force with which to defend itself against the fourth largest military power in the world.

    Sarah Colborne, Director of Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which will be delivering the letter, said: “These are simple facts, none of which have been present in any of the BBC’s coverage so far of Israel’s assault on Gaza.

    “However, they are vital facts and their absence results in BBC coverage which is unbalanced and lacking in context. Their omission allows the BBC to present Israel’s assault as a retaliation to Palestinian rockets rather than as an enforcement of its occupation and siege.

    “Truly unbiased journalism would allow its consumers to consider both options instead of presenting them with just one viewpoint, as the BBC is doing.”

    Protests took place outside BBC studios in Nottingham and Manchester on 10th July, and in Bristol on 11th July, demanding balanced reporting from BBC journalists.

    Tuesday’s protest at Portland Place will call on the BBC to report the truth about Israel’s occupation and siege on Gaza, instead of concealing facts from its audiences. It will take place from 5.30pm to 7.30pm.

    PSC’s letter to the BBC can be viewed here:

    It will be addressed to the BBC’s Director General, Lord Hall.

    The letter will remain on the website after Tuesday, allowing more people to sign. New signatures will be delivered to the BBC next week.

    • here..tvones’ coverage is shocking..in its’ bias..

      ..on a day of innocent men/women/children being blown to smithereens by the israelis while trapped in their ghetto..

      ..peter williams repeatedly plays footage of/murmers sympathetic words about the ‘poor israelis’..being bothered by sirens etc..

      ..and that far-right/capital-punishment-supporting business-trout nadine whoever..

      ..uses the words ‘the israel government’ in the most respectful tones..

      ..and the words ‘palestinian-militants’ wih a lip-smacking disdain/contempt so strong u cd almost bottle it..

      ..so biased she should be carrying a placard…

      • Morrissey 13.1.1

        I agree with you, Phillip—the television presenters on both channels seem to be sympathetic to the aggressors and indifferent to the victims. I presume that is because they are ignorant rather than vicious. Even when they try to say something intelligent and/or humane, they betray their ignorance by calling the killings “disproportionate”, which implies there is a “proportionate” number of Palestinian civilians that they may kill.

        However, on the positive side, I must say I was astonished to hear Susan Wood on the notoriously right wing, pro-Israel, pro-Communist China, pro-any-repressive-regime NewstalkZB last night; she was clearly shocked and disgusted by the Israeli actions.

  13. lprent 14

    Fixed the Feeds tab

    • karol 14.1

      Thanks. TS is running much more smoothly for me today. None of the “no data received” and duplicate notices.

      • lprent 14.1.1

        Yeah. It was a problem over the weekend. However Lyn passed on a head cold that had been carefully nurtured by one of her nieces, so I didn’t fix it. Got it yesterday morning.

        There still seemed to be the odd dup message later yesterday afternoon. But they were all from Gosman, and I suspect from a cached bad copy of some of the javascript (Shift+Refresh or Shift+F5 is your friend).

  14. Molly 15

    Kelvin Davis is either an easy target for Herald reporters – or he doesn’t think before speaking – even on topics that have a wealth of information supporting Labour’s policy stances.

    Herald article today: Labour MP backs ‘holiday highway’

    I’m always waiting for the boot to drop when watching him on TV.

    • lprent 15.1

      Basically, I’d expect any electorate MP to argue for their electorate first in public, the caucus, and parliament. That is their job.

      I’d also expect that on the odd occasion that they will cross the floor for their electorate as Damien O’Conner and another Labour MP recently did.

      But they’d better have a damn good argument for the caucus room if they do the latter.

      In this case, Labour’s policy is to do what I think should happen. The worst points in the current road should be progressively fixed rather throwing a unneeded extension in. First priority amongst them should be getting rid of that bloody useless set of lights at Wellsford, preferably by bypassing the town. Same at Wellsford. That gets rid of half of the weekend congestion problem straight. Secondly fix the known bad corners and straighten the road. Thirdly provide a better way to get up the steep and windy bluff.

      But Matt L at transport blog will have a better list.

      • Molly 15.1.1

        Yes, provided link to Matt L at transport blog. They have been pretty good there at documenting inconsistencies in Nationals’s planning and previous cost/benefit calculations.

        I understand Davis standing up for his electorate, but the assumption that any spending remains good just because it is in the electorate is dubious and naive at best.

        Northland would benefit from targeting spending – yes – I agree. But from targeted spending on roads, not so much.

        • lprent

          There are always going to be conflicts between electorate MPs and society wide party policies. I’d prefer that they are reasonably open about it, but making damn clear that they are their personal preference

          • McFlock

            The trouble with that is that it ends up looking like waffle, or even worse for the electorate candidates it looks to their voters like they’re lying about what they’ll actually do.

            But it’s happening on enough random policies that a case can be made that Labour electorate candidates are electorate representatives before party apparatchiks. List MPs can push the official party line, but electorate candidates need their local support.

            • lprent

              I agree. It really is a hell of an ask for a electorate MP/candidate to commit suicide for the party. Usually there are only a few issues like that in specific electorates.

              • Draco T Bastard

                In this case Davis could easily have said that the upgrades that Labour will do will achieve what Northland needs while costing less and being done quicker. That way he would have been onside with his potential constituents and fully backing Labour’s policy.

                Thing is, the only reason he wouldn’t do that is because of ignorance which really doesn’t help show that he’d be a good electorate MP.

                • McFlock

                  not when his constituents are telling him they want that road because the current one keeps getting washed out. It would look like he gets asked a question about a specific need for the region and responds with party waffle. Which is a problem that list-only candidates don’t really face, as they can pivot any specific complaint to a wider issue.

                  What he did manage to do was talk about Northland mayors being involved in an integrated regional transport plan, which spreads the responsibility and maybe provides an acceptable alternative if the highway isn’t built to the nactoid schedule.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    not when his constituents are telling him they want that road because the current one keeps getting washed out.

                    But, as has been pointed out, that particular road won’t help with that.

                    It would look like he gets asked a question about a specific need for the region and responds with party waffle.

                    Or he could respond with facts. The most important being that National’s Holiday Highway isn’t going to help them anymore than the faster and cheaper upgrades will.

                    • McFlock

                      We’re not talking about “facts” here.
                      We’re talking about the perceptions and desires of voters in his electorate.

                      And his position [edit:typolol @ “potion”] won’t change a thing either way: if JK is PM in november, the highway gets fast-tracked. If Cunliffe is PM, it won’t.

                      So Davis can support something knowing that if he’s in a position to oppose it then it won’t go through anyway because his cabinet colleagues will nuke it, and then use that support as a pivot for another issue (in this case local government joining together to form a regional transport plan).

                      Or he can oppose something his electorate want (for better or worse), and then get bogged down in the hustings arguing about a fucking road that will be constructed or not regardless of electorate outcome.

                      Frankly, I think his comment was a good move for both his campaign and Labour. Rather than Little or O’Conner just being dicks, it’s become standard Labour practise for electorate MPs to (shock horror) represent their electorates.

                    • blue leopard

                      These Labour candidates need to weigh up the effect that their comments have on the party vote aswell as their electorate- because they are not working solely for their electorate they are in a nationwide party. If they don’t want to think about such matters then I suggest they choose to be independents.

                      I, for one, am getting tired of the unclear/conflicting stance these electorate politicians are taking toward their own party policies – this gives me the ‘perception’ that Labour are going to have difficulty with internal harmony in government. I wonder how many others are responding like myself?

                      The type of discussion that Kelvin and co are raising with the media/public – needs to be had internally first and then a decision needs to be made so that a united message is given to the general public.

                      Conversely Kelvin &co have the option to stand as an independents – of course it is unlikely that they choose this option because politicians such as Kelvin get a lot of pay-offs for being involved in the 2nd biggest party in New Zealand. If, however, politicians from Labour continue to present a non-united and accordingly unclear message then they won’t belong to the 2nd biggest party in NZ after-all because less and less people will trust that Labour are capable of working in a competent and harmonious fashion.

                    • McFlock

                      If the electorate candidates were in conflict with the bulk of Labour policy, I agree: they shouldn’t be Labour candidates.

                      But when there’s conflict between party policy and one or two issues within an electorate, it’s not a problem. The impact on the party vote would be minimal within the electorate (the voter already dislikes the policy). Outside the electorate, people can understand the conflict the electorate MP faces.

                      It’s easy to have a consistent message if your policy is meaningless waffle. But people with different geographic perspectives have different priorities, and Davis and the West Coast MPs made it clear they were working in what they felt were the interests of their electorates.

                      Whereas Little playing to his “afraid to be alone with a woman” base did damage, in my opinion, because it was a local comment about a country-wide issue. He should have kept to a local comment about a local issue.

                    • blue leopard

                      This issue for me is something that may well stop me voting for Labour.

                      You assume that ‘people understand’ the conflict. No sorry, I don’t and won’t be putting effort into understanding it – because I doubt people who spend less time and have less interest in politics than myself will; so why would I bother?

                      i.e. It is up to Labour to present themselves in a manner where less doubt creeps in; it is not for me, you or anyone else to take time to ‘understand’ the poor wee conflicted dears. This is a discussion that needs to be discussed amongst themselves and addressed internally so that they can present a united and clear message as a party.

                      I was forgiving of a few random comments but this is starting to be a pattern with Labour and as I have already relayed I can only assume that if I react with impatience to such a very clear show of lack of discipline others will.

                      Labour have to understand and work through the conflicts themselves internally and present a much clearer and united message to us all externally than they have been recently because there are plenty of other parties to vote for.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.2

      “They want a safe and solid highway that’s going to get our people and goods in and out and that’s not at the whim of Mother Nature.

      Um, LOL?

      As much as we like to think that we’re all powerful Mother Nature will surely do whatever She pleases to whatever we build.

    • blue leopard 15.3

      @ Molly,

      I think your comment re ‘thinking before they speak’ is becoming the most appropriate response to this increasing trend of Labour candidates/MPs coming out with statements that are inharmonious toward and/or fudging of their own policies. I had initially thought it was an issue over how their statements were being reported – but now, no – there is something wrong with Labour’s messaging skills.

      I would have thought the one thing that is very important that Labour convey is that they are working together with a single-minded focus – both internally and externally i.e. that they are cooperative and harmonious amongst themselves and also toward potential coalition partners. This would convey that they will be an effective, stable and competent government.

      The other important factor is clear communication.

      Neither of these have been soundly achieved recently.

      I am strongly supportive of Mr Cunliffe due to the strong support he gained from the Labour party members and the unions – and this is a strong factor that makes Labour an option for my vote – however I am getting fed up with the inconsistent and inharmonious manner the Labour party politicians are presenting the message of their party policies and in the manner they show support (or lack of it) for other like-minded parties.

      Surely the most important goal for Labour politicians is to achieve a consistent and clear message of what they represent? The amount of reports coming out about Labour politicians contradicting and/or making unclear statements about their own policies is getting beyond the pail.

      I am losing patience with this phenomena. Are Labour politicians completely unable to display some discipline in their messaging or do they simply not see the importance of conveying a clear and consistent message to the general public?

  15. Wreckingball 16

    So Kelvin Davis wants the road projects in Northland but the Labour party wants to scrap them?

    Kelvin Davis said today: “The Government needs to step up and help local councils fix infrastructure problems highlighted by the recent Northland storms. The bad weather has amplified how susceptible the North really is at times like this. Our roading infrastructure is a major source of concern. This weather event has shown that when the main road in and out of the north fails” Link is here http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1407/S00262/call-for-government-to-step-up-in-north.htm

    It seems as the the roading projects are necessary and vital for jobs and economic development in the north but Labour doesn’t want them?

    • lprent 16.1

      Hi stupid dickhead. The Labour position is in the NZ Herald article that someone else linked to.

      Instead of the gold-plated RONS gift for holiday makers, Labour simply wants to fix the existing road. That is something that should have been started 5 years ago. Instead National dumped that for their Road Of Significance for National.

      This upgrade is a hell of a lot cheaper, will happen a lot faster, and actually have a return on investment that doesn’t require dubious projections to justify.

      So why do you think we should waste a billion plus dollars of taxpayers money for something that could be as easily be done by simply fixing the existing road for a few hundred million.

      Perhaps the question should be – can you think?

      • Wreckingball 16.1.1

        Wow so that was offensive. If I had made that insult then I would have been kicked off this site quick-smart. No need to get personal.

        It is better in this case to do the whole job. Fixing bits and bobs along the road will not fix the underlying problems: travel speeds and wash outs. Both of these are vital for commerical certainty and business growth.

        Rather than patching up the existing winding mess that is the current road (a second-world patch up job) as you propose, I believe it is better to do a real first-world job on it. If we want to be a first world country, we need the infrastructure to back it up.

        • lprent

          Wow so that was offensive. If I had made that insult then I would have been kicked off this site quick-smart. No need to get personal.

          Good. That was the intent. It helps to get fools curled up in a catatonic fetal balls sucking their fingers to pay attention to things outside their own head.

          Tick 1 – trolling standard response when challenged. Whine about politeness.

          If you act like a stupid arsehole making dumb fact free assertions, then I’ll treat you as one. I find that it helps lazy shitheads like yourself learn to be more cautious and to use google before wasting my time reading your rather obvious lack of attention. Since I read most of the comments on this site you can guarantee if you keep being lazy then I will notice and give you a kick to improve your standard of commenting.

          Read the policy. With a few relatively rare exceptions I as a moderator couldn’t give a damn about personal insults, unless they were pointless, or you were off topic, or it was clear that someone was deliberately trying to kick off a flamewar.

          Since I do most of the moderation around here, your statement has the ring of a idiot trying to dig himself in deeper in quicksand.

          It is better in this case to do the whole job. Fixing bits and bobs along the road will not fix the underlying problems: travel speeds and wash outs. Both of these are vital for commerical certainty and business growth.

          Why? We’re only talking between Puhio and Wellsford. Not between Wellsford and Whangarei where much of the washout areas are.

          The washouts only happen in a couple of locations up to Wellsford.

          The amount of commercial traffic is minimal compared to the number of cars clogging the roads and almost all of it happens in only a few places. What causes issues are congestion problems at a couple of locations with cars which don’t require a whole new road to be built.

          Moreover if what you were saying was true, then it would show up immediately on the economic cost benefit analysis. Which it does not because the dickheads from NZTA haven’t published one (which suggests that it is far worse then slender 1.2 for the Wellington Basin reserve flyover).

          Moreover they’re projecting a average annual 4.4% growth in traffic to north of Warkworth. However they chose a measurement site inside the Warkworth ‘urban’ area which does show a annual 4.1% growth – of people driving around town. When you measure north of Warkworth on the open road, there is no growth.

          So over 9 years there has been a pipsqueak of traffic growth north of Warkworth. So why exactly are we spending a billion plus for this road? To cure a economic problem that doesn’t exist?

          I don’t think that there is any economic benefit apart from a few congestion issues for cars going to baches. Most of which can be fixed with a few much easier and cheaper improvements. This road appears to have more to do with National wanting to help their favourite donating property developers than for any economic benefits for the north.

          Basically you should probably read the posts about this topic this link over at transportblog. Then you might sound less like a ignorant doofus.

          • srylands

            You take yourself far too seriously. You think your bitter communist raving has the effect of causing people to be become fetal?

            • lprent

              I see that you are avoiding the intent of the comment.

              I guess that is because you are probably a bit too stupid to understand it. Right?

              After all traffic patterns are hard data and a ineffectual theorist like yourself can’t handle actual facts.

        • JK

          I don’t think Wreckingball has the whole picture. The holiday highway which the Nat Govt intends spending billions on is only going as far as Wellsford (and will take probably a decade or so to build).

          It won’t solve the problems Kelvin Davis is talking about – which are : that the road – the State Highway One for gawds sake – north of Whangarei is a mess, its unreliable, it gets flooded too easily and breaks up (as can be seen just south of Kawakawa right now where it is impassable) – and the alternative routes are really non-existent – unless you take the very long old Russell Road out towards Paihia and Opua – adding another couple of hours onto your journey.

          The current side roads which traffic is using – such as the Ruapekapeka Road – are now crumbling and disintegrating under the unaccustomed traffic because they are “side roads” – unsealed, narrow, winding, and not built for major traffic use.

          So the proposed govt billion-dollar spend on the “holiday highway” is NOT going to do much good for the mid-to Far North. Th e govt needs to spend some serious money on making sure State Highway One from Whangarei to Cape Reinga is well built, well maintained, and has reliable alternative routes around it, if needed in extreme weather events as has just happened – and are likely to happen in the future.

          • lprent

            Yeah, the Puhio to Wellsford road will largely only have regular heavier traffic for the foreseeable future to Warkworth. Most will be cars going there on weekends. Wellsford on holidays.

            Truck traffic increasing will be bugger all. They have a pretty good port up north, so why would they move the heavy export stuff out of anywhere apart from the port. The population is static or declining so there isn’t a massive need to increase that.

            Tourism really doesn’t have an issue apart from the usual Auckland holiday outpouring.

            In the meantime the roads up north are getting torn to pieces through a lack of maintenance and upgrades.

  16. Tautoko Viper 17

    Manipulating online polls. No wonder David Farrar is pushing online voting!
    Glen Greenwald’s latest gem:

    “The secretive British spy agency GCHQ has developed covert tools to seed the internet with false information, including the ability to manipulate the results of online polls, artificially inflate pageview counts on web sites, “amplif[y]” sanctioned messages on YouTube, and censor video content judged to be “extremist.” The capabilities, detailed in documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, even include an old standby for pre-adolescent prank callers everywhere: A way to connect two unsuspecting phone users together in a call.”


    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      Manipulating online polls. No wonder David Farrar is pushing online voting!

      There’s a difference between online polls and online voting. Most notably the fact that the former is anonymous and the latter isn’t.

  17. amirite 18

    I’ve been fuming all morning while listening to RadioLive’s Sean Plunket’s talkshit (I know, I know…) where he shat all over Labour’s policies and tried to minimise the Dotcom scandal evolving. And then he decided to ‘break’ a Whaleoil story about Mike Rowley (who?) who alleges that David Cunliffe promised him a favour in exchange for some dirt on Steven Joyce and his involvement with the Exclusive Brethren. Anyway, he got hoisted by his own petard. The guy proved a total fraud and serves them all right when they take any crap from WhaleSoil as a Gospel.

    • James 18.1

      I like Whale – But I would have to agree the current post on this seems (more than) a little thin.

      Will be interesting to see if there is more to come (which is often the way of the Whale).

      If there isnt – then this will (quite rightly) die. In fact it should not have been done at all.

      However – if there is more – some form of evidence or a sworn statement, then it might have to be replied to.

      • felix 18.1.1

        What do you think about all the disgusting creepy innuendo Cameron (Jason) has been feeding and encouraging re: Tania Billingsley?

        Some very, very ugly stuff going on there. Horrible to think this guy is so close to our PM.

    • freedom 18.2

      Radio Live has a 7day audio library here
      Tuesday 15/7/ 11:30 am for the item mentioned by amirite above

    • Paul 18.3

      Don’t listen to talk hate radio.

      • deep throat 18.3.1

        that is no solution at all.
        wailshte is a blot on the country.
        a man with no conscience, principles, ethics or morals at all.
        this man needs to be exposed for the complete rotten egg that he is.
        its seems like he has had two black eyes already this week.
        somebody should finish him off with a good kick in the balls.

  18. Draco T Bastard 19

    Why women quit technology careers

    Computerworld – What if half the men in science, engineering and technology roles dropped out at midcareer? That would surely be perceived as a national crisis. Yet more than half the women in those fields leave — most of them during their mid- to late 30s.

    It’s an interesting article but I was most taken by this bit and it’s solution:

    The third thing is that, for many women, the career path is all very mysterious because they don’t have mentors or sponsors or folks looking out for them. Some of them can’t begin to map what the career ladder looks like. This mystery adds to the sense of stalling, of being stuck and not knowing where to go or how to get there.

    What practical steps should CIOs take to keep women from leaving? It’s the most standard solution in the world: You’ve just got to get mentors to pair with the young talent.

    Which, IMO, is where our education system, especially tertiary, is failing. It’s not providing that support and people are left with a What next? It’s not that people choose to fail but that most people don’t have the information and support to choose any other option.

    • blue leopard 19.1

      +1 DTB

    • Colonial Viper 19.2

      People coming out of tertiary education with IT or commerce degrees aren’t going to graduate prepared to answer questions on what next to do with their lives once they turn 40. Try something in philosophy, theology or the other humanities instead.

  19. Morrissey 20

    “We Have the Right to Defend Ourselves”
    No. 1 ….


  20. the dotcom-harawira-harre roadshow kicks off in kaitaia 2nite..

    [email protected] 6pm @ the community centre..

    ..and 2morrow nite in kaikohe..

  21. dotcom has hired the ak town hall for 5 days before the election..

    ..where he is promising ‘yo drop the bomb’ on key..

    ..and will release ‘the hard evidence’ that key has lied to parliament..and the nz people…


    • The Al1en 23.1

      Yawn, if he has anything he should release it now.
      I’m guessing it’s a fizzer, rather than a banger, if he’s only going to play with it for five days.

      • phillip ure 23.1.1

        your intrinsic dumbness…is as wide as it is long..isn’t it..?

        ..clearly proven by yr inability to appreciate that timing..

        ..dumb as a sack of fucken doorknobs…eh..?

        • The Al1en

          A bit testy there Philip, you got withdrawal symptoms my old chum? Benefit day tomorrow, so not long to wait now until the tinny house is open.

          Five days at the end of a campaign, when most people have already decided who to vote for, will do nothing to change the political landscape, revelation or not.
          You ever heard of rubbing salt into a wound? A clue, it’s like the possum question you won’t answer.

  22. The end of bacon jokes is nigh, but don’t count your chickens just yet 😉


  23. joe90 25

    Teacher accountability – the magic bullet.

    At happy-hour drinks, he and other teachers complained that the legislators who wrote No Child Left Behind must never have been near a school like Parks. He felt as if he and his colleagues were part of a nationwide “biological experiment” in which the variables—the fact that so many children were hungry and transient, and witnessing violence—hadn’t been controlled. David Berliner, the former dean of the school of education at Arizona State University, told me that, with the passage of the law, teachers were asked to compensate for factors outside their control. He said, “The people who say poverty is no excuse for low performance are now using teacher accountability as an excuse for doing nothing about poverty.”


  24. Weepus beard 26

    Is see Duncan Garner and his soul mate Cameron Slater are continuing their campaign re: Labour MPs jumping ship.

    They cite Trevor Mallard (although I can’t see any evidence he’s departing from the party line), Kelvin Davis, a raw newbie in the Shane Jones mould (we know what a team player Shane is), and Damien O’Conner who made a stand on trees, apparently with the blessing of the caucus.

    Mallard and O’Conner have done nothing out of the ordinary which leaves the raw Davis to make some noise that will perversely only resonate with the idle Remuera/Omaha rich set.

    That’s right, he wants to go ahead with the holiday highway.

    I know that road well. Several hundred million dollars has just been thrown at the East Coast Bays to Puhoi section in the form of a toll road which all ordinary Northlanders are paying for the privilege of using whenever they need to come to Auckland using their own vehicles or by way of increased costs on the goods they have to buy locally, for instance we know petrol is more expensive in Northland. The Puhoi to Wellsford section (lets read Puhoi to Omaha, because that’s what the holiday highway really is about) is not busy at all in normal weekday usage when the bulk of goods travel, it’s just not.

    If Kelvin did his homework he’d be able to see that the only bit that needs fixing in the short/medium term is the Warkworth, and perhaps Wellsford, bypasses (something planned by Labour and cancelled by National IIRC). The rest is just the Remuera elite having a bit more road to open up their Audis upon.

  25. greywarbler 27

    Meanwhile the gummint grinds on grinding down the fine society we had into ashes which they will later spread surreptitiously somewhere inconsequential.

    On the My Thinks blog boonman has announced there is shock at the agreement of the Education and Science Select Committee to allow a Bill to pass so that the government can control the teachers body, the Teachers Council.

    Just to clarify what this means: Every single member of the board responsible for the registration and disciplining of teachers across New Zealand is going to be appointed by Hekia Parata….

    At present the Teachers’ Council is a partly appointment, partly elected body. When the bill is passed this will be a totally appointed body – a body whose sole aim will be the destruction of the teaching profession (don’t believe me? Have a look at what is happening to professional teaching organisations and unions in the United States). Once you have a subservient profession, then you can mould and manipulate to your heart’s content.

    Of course, if National don’t manage to cobble together their various has-beens into a coalition of the desperately willing, then we may not be forced to endure the ignominy of having our profession deconstructed in this way.

  26. Paul 28

    Campbell Live doing an expose on Stonewood Homes in Christchurch.
    Cowboys in a cowboy country with few regulations.
    There is a shortage of builders …due to a lack of planning by our government.
    We live in a country where the buck seems to stop anywhere…..

  27. deep throat 29

    who saw the two government members on telly tonight looking tragic.

  28. Jrobin 30

    KDC got a good solo run though on TV 3 news. Having JK away might be backfiring
    as there was no competing narrative to challenge Dotcom’s. Still thoroughly gutless though. Hopefully John will be having another crisis similar to the one Roughan cited where Key’s fear of losing gives him existential cramps. That will teach him to believe in Neo Darwinist winner takes all bs.

    • Draco T Bastard 31.1

      It was always going to happen. Relying upon agriculture to be the driver of an economy has, and always will, result in a country being poor. It doesn’t cost that much to do and every other country can do it for themselves.

  29. Draco T Bastard 32

    Bank of International Settlements (BIS) calls for an end of debt-driven growth

    As BIS General Manager Jaime Caruana stated when presenting the Annual Report in Basel, “financial booms have led to severe resource misallocation in many economies”. According to Mr Caruana, these booms have also masked an erosion of growth potential while rising private and public debt has created a range of vulnerabilities. To use his words, “as debt increases, the ability of borrowers to repay becomes progressively more sensitive to drops in income and to interest rate rises. Thus, higher debt translates into greater financial fragility and financial cycles that may become increasingly disruptive”.

    And yet no country in the world is doing anything to stop growth through the rise in debt despite the lessons of the GFC. Lessons obviously not learned.

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      of course, “learning lessons” is not the point, growing profits and maintaining elite privilege is.

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