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Open mike 15/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 15th, 2015 - 130 comments
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130 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2015 ”

  1. Wairua 1

    As Economy Worsens, China’s Wealthy Flee for Safe-Haven Western Real Estate


    • Paul 1.1

      Blue’s comment yesterday at 9.59 a.m. needs reposting.

      “Good riddance to Quin – that’s probably the only bright spot to come out of this fiasco.

      Labour finally did something that captured the public’s interest and landed a solid blow on the National Party. They have nothing to defend themselves with, having denied there is a problem with foreign ownership, refused to measure it and blatantly lied about the scale of it.

      The only thing they and their supporters can do is cry ‘racism!’ (piously pretending that they are usually paragons of equality, justice and human rights themselves) and then watch as the left fall all over ourselves to back off, apologise and crawl back into our hole, which is exactly where they want us.

      China is currently in a unique position, with many people desperately trying to get large sums of money out and invested into property overseas. This is a widely acknowledged phenomenon across Australia, Canada, the UK and the USA. It’s only NZ who can’t seem to have a grown-up conversation about it.

      Meanwhile, National sit back, relax and rub their hands together as they and their voters profit from ever-increasing prices, the left dissolve into a muddle of headless chooks scratching at each other and the Kiwi dream of home ownership dies a little more every day.”

      • Weepus beard 1.1.1

        I disagree that Quin’s drama queen flounce is the only bright spot to come out of this.

        Twyford has placed enormous pressure upon our reactionary government to collect buyers data. That is the brightest spot.

        • Paul


        • Skinny

          Joyce is trying to convince the public that Phil Twyford knows that the changes that the Nats made in the budget will identify who and where they are from are buying NZ property. He also claims trade treaties are at risk due to Labour’s anti Chinese stance.

          Meanwhile in the leafy Auckland suburb of Epsom old money blue ribbon Tories like my brother in-law mutter our neighborhood is being taken over by Chinese and National have to stop this. I laughed when he said “Little is a straight shooter I like that”.

          • dv

            The changes are the buyer needs an IRD no, and a Bank ac.

            How will this info tell where the buyer lives in the world?

            Or is there more I am missing?

            • Skinny

              Just another Nat con job like the appear to do something but do nothing changes to Workplace H & S, Zero Hours & Swamp Kauri.

              As I’ve already stated the Nats are pinned down either way it is going to cost in popularity. If they don’t make proper changes they will be crucified by the wider Nation and if the close out the rort in Auckland they lose the darling Jafa vote. Good job I love seeing Joyce flapping like an old battery hen.

      • Sabine 1.1.2

        I don’t think that the ‘left’ at large has a problem with stating that a. anecdotally more and more buyers seem to be chinese, that neighbourhoods are changing with all but caucasians and chinese moving out, with a large number of businesses selling to chinese….have a look at some of the fringes – all those two dollar shops, all those cafe’s that are suddenly all being bought up by chinese and are only staffed with chinese (but only using chinese labour in NZ in a chinese business is not racism, thats good business sense as they are not unionised and cheaper then anyone else cause Profit….right ? )

        These observation by themselves do not a Racist make, but in saying that, let it continue with the sell out and it will raise racial tensions. That is one thing that is for sure.

        No the purity leftist (or the kumbaya brigade) may be afraid to be called a racists, and may be happy to have the discussion shut down that way. However a lot of the People that have applauded Phil Twyford and the Labour Party to finally raise the issue are not purity leftist, nor hardened rightwing purists, but rather ordinary Kiwis that are shut out of the housing market, and increasingly shut out of the rental market as well.
        They are just worried that they themselves, their children or their grandchildren will end up homeless in their own country.

        So lets have this discussion, without fear of being called a racist. Who is buying NZ and what will the effect of this buying up of NZ have on us, our children and our grand children.

        And if they want to call us Racist….well if it makes them feel better, go ahead I still want to know who buys what for how much in NZ. And i want to know where that money is coming from, is it legal and declared, and what will be the long term effect on this country.

        • Paul

          Spot on, Sabine.
          Like your thinking.

        • Sacha

          Some of us are ‘purely’ concerned at Labour’s ongoing incompetence making it too easy for their opponents to distract from the real issues.

          • Jim Nald

            The framing that came out of the Saturday interview is problematic to accept – morally and, given information presented to date about the study, how the study was carried out in terms of methodology, how data was obtained, how data was used and how findings were disseminated.

            If Don Brash, Tony Abbott or Pauline Hanson had done it the same way, I would hope that the Left, Progressives and principled people of this country would have been as critical, if not more critical.

            The piece of study would have likely raised many ethical issues had it been reviewed by an ethics committee and either been sent back to the people proposing to go ahead with it, subject to conditions for the proposal to be improved, or rejected.

            The way in which the findings have been communicated also stigmatised a group of people, quite unnecessarily and could have been avoided.

            • Jenny Kirk

              To Jim Nald – Phil Twyford was clear from the very beginning that the data was not totally reliable, and the reason for bringing it up was to get some action from the government. That has been repeated ad nauseum, and it has had an impact. An ethics committee would have watered it down, would lost its impact.
              People are wanting Labour to take a stand on important issues.

            • Draco T Bastard

              What a load of bollocks.

              The framing that came out of the Saturday interview is problematic to accept – morally

              Nope, easy to accept. Showing how NZers are being forced out of their own country is not immoral.

              given information presented to date about the study, how the study was carried out in terms of methodology,

              Nope, given the limited data available that was the best that could be done and it provided reasonable information showing the trend of NZ and NZers being sold out to enrich a few people.

              how data was obtained, how data was used and how findings were disseminated.

              Bollocks. The data was obtained the only way possible – through a public interest leak. It was professionally and ethically analysed and then the results given over to the MSM to report upon it.

              The way in which the findings have been communicated also stigmatised a group of people, quite unnecessarily and could have been avoided.

              No it didn’t. Some people just chose to take the neutral data and findings that way because they refused to see through to the bigger picture. This failure to address the actual issue seems, IMO, to be the result of 30+ years of Identity Politics.

          • Sabine

            Thats okai Sacha, you can vote for any of the other parties. I hear the Greens are hiring, going on to aquamarine 🙂

        • Ron

          Not sure though that the proposed changes that National are touting will do anything to identify who is buying real estate. It does not appear that it will make any attempt to divulge who the beneficial owners of a trust are so expect from October 1 to find that a large proportion of real estate is being purchased by trusts.

        • Olwyn

          What is important now is that this isn’t allowed to proceed in a racist direction. It is one thing to point to a particular group to draw attention to the number of overseas buyers pushing the price of housing up, and quite another to continue to nurture prejudice against that group. And it is not just the distinction between resident and nonresident Chinese either – nonresident buyers are simply doing what they are currently free to do. The fault lies with governments, especially this one, failing to protect the interests and well-being of their own citizens. I was at Labour’s 2008 campaign launch, and I know that they had plans then for addressing this growing problem. National have instead used international speculation to deepen the divide between the haves and have-nots, and to increase the fear in the haves as to what will happen to them if National ever loses. Don’t blame the Chinese, wherever they live, blame them.

          • RedLogix

            No-one is blaming individuals for looking out for their own best interests here.

            This is a perfectly sound and valid policy issue going on here. NZ is an unusually open and free market, and we’ve gotten away with it for some time now. Bit like a noob surfer out in waves a little too big for his skill, but getting away with it.

            But now we’ve been hit by the big one. Time to duck.

            • Olwyn

              True – but the answer still lies in grappling with the real problem – if that is still indeed possible or “permitted” by this toxic economic system. In Grapes of Wrath, Steinbeck had a character say, “You can’t shoot the bank.” You can, however, shoot individuals as proxies for the bank, which is why we must now stick to the real issue and not allow things to proceed in an anti-Chinese direction. And I think your surfing analogy re NZ is a very apt one.

              • Colonial Viper

                the 4 major banks are very powerful and Labour would not be “courageous” enough to risk maligning them (or their profit margins) in a discussion on what has been fueling the property bubble. Labour would pick a softer target for such a discussion.

                • Olwyn

                  Maligning NZ banks would probably not be all that effective at this stage anyway – see Orlov on puppets, which I think you posted. The real problem, is what, if anything, can be done about it? The longer the problem goes on, the more possible solutions disappear. I used to think family-sized apartments might be the way to go, but going by lprent’s comments, they are now on the roulette table too. The problem needs to be addressed squarely, with consideration for both lifelong renters and potential owners. More state house, 10 or 20 year leases, leasehold purchases underwritten by the government…maybe. I see Berlin has adequate housing as a right, a rule we should also have made explicit and protected from neo-liberal ravaging.

          • Skinny

            That is all very nice touchy feely stuff, however history shows New Zealand is full of racists, uasally the first to get clobbered are Maori, look no further for prove than Bash and National’s incredible leap in the polls after the Orewa speech of Brash’s. How about the popularity Winston Peters anti Asian invasion rants achieved. I have lost count of the amount of Poms that bemoan they migrated here because old Mother England had become overun with migrants.

            It is a generational thing as most of the young grow up with a melting pot of cultures and couldn’t give a toss as I don’t.

          • weka

            Spot on Olwyn. Best round up comment of the debate.

          • McFlock


    • infused 2.1

      yeah I don’t think you quite get the racism part.

      • Paul 2.1.1

        ‘Labour finally did something that captured the public’s interest and landed a solid blow on the National Party. They have nothing to defend themselves with, having denied there is a problem with foreign ownership, refused to measure it and blatantly lied about the scale of it.

        The only thing they and their supporters can do is cry ‘racism!’ (piously pretending that they are usually paragons of equality, justice and human rights themselves) ‘

        • Puckish Rogue

          Stats that were acknowledged as unreliable were leaked (stolen?) from a real estate office and because someone decided that some of the names sounded chinese it was decided that this proves its all the chinese peoples fault that house prices are going up

          Even the Greens thinks its a crock: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70186455/greens-accuse-labour-of-crude-racial-profiling-on-housing-sales

          “They have misused information to draw ethnicity links that I don’t think is there, most people don’t think is there, or is legitimate with the data they’ve got. You can’t tell from a person’s last name anything about them. You can’t tell their ethnicity, let alone whether they’re resident or not. It was an unfortunate and foolish set of assumptions that they’ve made.”

          She added: “Is it racist? They’ve certainly making some racist assumptions.”

          • Skinny

            Your mates in National wouldn’t get away with wriggling out of doing nothing solid on foreign non resident ownership and don’t you fuckers know it!

            • Puckish Rogue

              So blame the idiots in Labour who played the race card (and played it rather poorly) and have let National off the hook

              • Skinny

                Nope the hook is firmly embedded in National’s jaw and their being reeled into the public’s pan and the big fish is about to get fried 🙂

                • Puckish Rogue

                  S’funny but thats been said about National and John Key since 2008 and yet he and National are still in power

                  The problem is Labour, collectively, arn’t as smart as National nor as cunning as Winston Peters

                  But hey I guess Labours fund raising is going so well they can afford to alienate the immigrints..

              • Draco T Bastard

                They didn’t play the race card – they played the We’re being bought out by foreigners and here’s some data showing that card.

    • RedLogix 2.2

      Worth quoting from the link above:

      “The ongoing purge and the fear of losing everything if you are caught up in an anti-corruption investigation or a political fight has convinced many in China to diversify to places with clear and stable legal and political environments,” says one figure at a large property advisory company.

      Capital controls restrict Chinese residents from exchanging more than $50,000 in foreign currency each year, which would make it almost impossible for a Chinese person to buy a prime residential property abroad.

      This means effectively that all property purchases by Chinese nationals overseas are technically illegal.

      Questions over the provenance of much of the Chinese money streaming into cities such as New York, London and Sydney will also add to growing resentment among locals who feel they are being priced out of the market.

      I think it’s time CV and a few others had a bit of a hard think here. If this was say American hot money we wouldn’t be getting this ‘racist’ line.

      Tonga tightly restricts all land ownership to Tongan’s only. Does anyone label this a racist policy? Of course not, because everyone can see that the tiny, tiny Tongan real-estate market would be hopelessly vulnerable to being swamped by non-doms and this would very rapidly impact on Tongan society and identity.

      Well in comparison to China this country is just like Tonga. We are a tiny fish is a vastly greater global pool of money. In this case a reported $21 Trillion in cash sitting in Chinese accounts looking for a safer place to flee to. Enough to buy every scrap of this country at least 50 times over.

      These facts are NOT racist. There are a reality. Either we name them and deal with them – or we face exactly the same fate as the Tongans would if they were silly enough to open their real-estate market to anyone with enough cash to out-bid the locals.

      • weka 2.2.1

        Red, you still don’t get what the racism argument is (for instance, can you see the difference between Chinese immigrants and US immigrants and how each might be affected by racism? Or NZers of Chinese descent compared to NZers of US anglo descent?)

        I’ve not seen anyone arguing that we shouldn’t restrict overseas ownership and I’ve not seen anyone arguing that restricting overseas ownership would be racist.

        Please stop misrepresenting the argument. It’s just making things worse.

        • Galeandra

          Hi Pot. Please stop misrepresenting the argument

          • weka

            That’s the stupidest comment I’ve seen (and that’s saying something in a big debate where people aren’t listening to each other). At least have the decency to explain how I’m misrepresenting the argument. Otherwise, what’s the point?

        • Draco T Bastard

          The problem is that a lot of people are calling racist when it actually isn’t and are then ignoring all the points of the argument. Exactly as you did there when you ignored everything that RedLogix said and cried RACIIIIST.

          There was nothing racist about the data that Labour presented – it was merely data. Data is purely neutral.

          • weka

            I didn’t cry racist, I named Red as misrepresenting the arguments that many here are making.

            The reason I ignored most of the rest of what he said is that I’m not willing to debate points when there is that much dishonestly going on (no idea if it’s intentional or not).

            But please note, I did give an example of what I was talking about, so that people would know. Whereas you’ve just made some claims about me (and others) without explaining.

            “There was nothing racist about the data that Labour presented – it was merely data. Data is purely neutral.”

            Which would be why I’ve been arguing it was about how the issue was approached, not the issue itself.

            (that’s leaving aside the issue of whether data is always inherently neutral, which can be argued for or against)

            • Draco T Bastard

              Open mike 15/07/2015

              It’s people like you who have been misrepresenting the information given by calling it racist. It’s not racist, it’s simply data and can’t be presented in any other way.

            • marty mars

              why even bother weka – the ravine is too wide and too many have too much to lose – I have found this debate to be relatively good natured but I am so over the diversionary crap that red and draco are spinning – I just want to insult them now but I’m not going to, even though I really, really, really want to.

            • Charles

              Draco seems to be arguing that if you get a selected range of random numbers/symbols relating to an as-yet-unknown event (past or future) and do not consider the context in which the numbers/symbols originated, data is always neutral. I guess under those conditions, data would be close to neutral.
              In that moment before the brain interprets the data, all is well, but numbers and symbols have an inherent value – even if unknown value – and cannot ever be considered neutral: perhaps just “latent”. These conditions don’t exist outside the theoretical laboratory and never in a political context. What Labour did was purposely go looking (they decided which string of information to pursue) , knowing full well the “latent” context, and the wider implications, but decided “the risk” was worth it – then they assigned a meaning.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Draco seems to be arguing that if you get a selected range of random numbers/symbols relating to an as-yet-unknown event (past or future) and do not consider the context in which the numbers/symbols originated, data is always neutral.

                Why would I do that?

                The data wasn’t random – it was the names of house purchases.
                These names were then correlated across known languages/cultures and compared to the known demographics of Auckland.

                If it had been random then the data would be meaningless but because it wasn’t and the context was known then conclusions could be drawn and that conclusion is that Chinese buyers are skewing the Auckland housing market (and probably the rest of NZ) and pushing housing out of reach of NZers and thus increasing poverty and deprivation.

                This conclusion is not racist – it merely is.

                Now, the fact is that our housing and land market in NZ has been skewed by foreign buyers for some time including American, English and probably a few other nations as well but it’s getting worse and the present excess cash in China is pushing that skewing. That too is not racist – it’s just a fact.

          • Colonial Viper

            The problem is that a lot of people are calling racist when it actually isn’t and are then ignoring all the points of the argument.

            Sorry mate, I think myself, Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok, Raybon Kan, and a bunch of others are pretty clear what anti-Chinese racism sounds like and looks like.

            If Labour had played the very same cards smarter and broader – in order to launch a discussion on the damage hot money flows are doing to NZers and NZ businesses that would have been very productive. It would have shifted a whole conversation that we are having now about ethnicity into one on economics.

            The way that Labour actually did play their cards was shit.

            • te reo putake

              “Sorry mate, I think myself, Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok, Raybon Kan, and a bunch of others are pretty clear what anti-Chinese racism sounds like and looks like.”

              Yep, and despite that, you’re still calling something that wasn’t racist, racist 😉

              • ffs that is getting puerile – where I work we have a thing called “what am I missing?” when two positions appears irreconcilable and a reconciliation is desired ask that question – that last bit is your problem – you can’t even conceive of a different view let alone be mature enough to try and find it – silly, corrosive politics imo but hey glad it’s giving you a laugh

                • weka

                  It’s a pretty narrow definition of racism being used, but worse is that so many people are simply writing off the views of politicised people that have been dealing with racism all their lives. I feel like we’ve gone back in time several decades. It’s shameful.

                  I’m also a bit stunned by the low level of ability to understand complexity.

            • marty mars

              I just want to say thank you cv for your standing up on this issue when I am sure it was difficult and challenging. We have our differences for sure but I’m pleased to stand with you on this one.

              • Colonial Viper

                MM – thanks dude – and I am starting to understand the various points that you have been making to me over time a little bit more.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Sorry mate, I think myself, Keith Ng, Tze Ming Mok, Raybon Kan, and a bunch of others are pretty clear what anti-Chinese racism sounds like and looks like.

              Obviously they don’t else they wouldn’t be calling simple facts racist.

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 3


    Check out the graph of administrators vs physicians. Is our healthcare sector similar?

    • ianmac 3.1

      Astonishing but which country AWW?

    • McFlock 3.2


      Seems to come from this article bitching about the rise of big data (while ignoring that private health insurance companies probably pay more analysts more money to replicate each other’s work).

      In contrast, a CPT code 99204-21 (new patient visit, E/M coding level 4, prolonged service) associated with ICD-9 code 786.50 (chest pain, unspecified) hardly conveys any real knowledge and cannot possibly be a basis on which relevant decisions can be made or value established. These codes cannot help determine the needed supply of doctors, nor that of drugs and other material necessities. The only tangible effect of the coding scheme, then, is simply to require a massive influx of administrators charged with “interpreting” and acting upon its obscure data signals.

      A bullshit paragraph that misses the point – nobody would look at an “unspecified” diagnoses alone. But they might group it in with particular other diagnoses, or look and see whether “unspecified” is a big enough group to specify – the latest ICD10, for example, created new codes for GHB or ecstasty drug use because they were inflating the “drug overdose, unspecified” grouping. Actually, that entire article is bullshit. Collating an increase in Downs Syndrome births gives a pretty good expectation that in the next ten years you’ll have an increase in paediatric procedures to treat congenital heart conditions. Looking at diagnostic codes helps see whether there’s much change in child assault stats, or respiratory illnesses, or whether an addition to the vaccination schedule will be cost effective.

      But then I suspect the real target is to count a “bloated” health sector while ignoring the similarly-bloated health insurance sector, anyway. More tory lies.

  3. Sabine 4

    Morals, whos effn morals are the good one? Yours, mine? someone elses….who the fuck cares, thanks to morals we burned women, children, men and cats at the stakes by the thousands once upon a time.
    thanks to morals we can call single parents welfare queens and bludgers, cause no man was ever involved in the making or racing of a child.
    thanks to morals we have hungry cold and undressed kids, cause their parents are trying hard enough.

    morals, shove them. they bring nothing but misery.

    You know what pisses off my morals?


    Quote: Gray said the draught situation was so bad there was no point turning a heater on, particularly because they were not allowed to put up curtains to help keep the warmth in.

    “You get a bit of warm air and then the cold air comes in and wipes it out.”

    Gray keeps a woolly scarf by her window, which she pegs to the council-fitted blinds to try and insulate her home.

    She wants curtains, but the council said she wasn’t allowed.

    “I wanted to get curtains up to keep the heat in, but they said they don’t want screws in the walls.”

    “All our complaints have been falling on deaf ears. They think we’re idiots,” she said.

    Petition signatories wanted better insulation and permission to install curtains, another resident who didn’t want to be named for fear of being kicked-out said.

    “When I pull the blind down you can see it moving. There’s a draught under the door in the door-jamb, too,” she said.

    “One lady, she’s 85 and on a walker, and she sits and freezes.”

    Another resident had a $200 monthly power bill to heat his one-bedroom flat.
    so frankly the morals of the purity brigade i have no use for. I have no use for people that cry about the unfairness of life, and then cry racism when a valid issue is raised, while in the meantime people are not housed at all, housed miserably in an award winning block with no curtains, have no shoes, have no food. So morals. whose morals are the good ones?

    • JanM 4.1

      +++++++ Wow!!!!

    • adam 4.2

      Read what the people on the left said – not the right wing trolls. What the people on the left said Sabine, because you have the two confused.

      We see there is a problem, and generally the only thing we have said – is the way that labour framed and presented the debate was racist.

      As many have said the content is not racist – it’s the wording, presentation and what was deliberately not said, which was the issue for many on the left to labours presentation of this issue, as racist. I don’t think we should let the labour party off the hook, and I said from day one – Tywford should be dropped.

      You are right Sabine the issue at hand is housing. And yes many of the Trolls, and other sycophantic Tory scum who love to muddy the waters have little or no moral ground to stand on. And we should not let them get away with it. The so called Mr fit it for instance, is as about morally vacant as one can get, and still breath. For him to wax lyrical about racist labour, is a very sick joke indeed – that the media repeat his lines – just shows how deep institutionalised racism is, in our media.

    • greywarshark 4.3

      My thoughts. There are so many causes and rights, and prioritising them seems to be very much based on one’s own particular interests. It is saddening to see the continuing lack of empathy for others that increased after 1984. The quality of mercy is strained now, it is like many of our imported goods, not strong enough to last long.

      As Shakespeare wrote:
      The quality of mercy is not strained;
      It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
      Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
      It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:

      ‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
      The throned monarch better than his crown:
      His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
      The attribute to awe and majesty,
      Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
      But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
      It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,

      It is an attribute to God himself;
      And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
      When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
      Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
      That, in the course of justice, none of us
      Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;

      It is mercy we need always, applying for human rights under the justice system is a last resort to get what should be at hand. And as we need mercy ourselves, we should give it to others in the degree that it can be meted. Those who have been hurt and unfairly treated, once assisted, should turn and pass that kindness on. So that we keep in our minds the others still disadvantaged and suffering, and caring thoughts and actions circulate through the community.

    • TE 4.4

      “But the council says the apartments are fine and residents don’t know how to operate the windows properly”
      Really its simple isn’t it, open and shut or it should be.

      Reading this made me very sad for the OAP who live in this complex
      WCC should be ashamed of their people who liaise with the OAP
      WCC have no humility or manners or it seems any sort of training to deal with people who have lived a long life, shame on them.

  4. ianmac 5

    Rates rise in Auckland by as much as 9%. Sounds grim but what were their rates before? In Blenheim a modest 100sq.m house rates $2640.
    I read that a Christchurch house valued at $700,000 has rates over $4,000.
    So what are the actual rates like in Auckland?

    • Chooky 5.1

      the New Zealand elderly are being driven from their homes because of rates rises…because their house values have been artificially driven up by foreign buyers/speculators

      • tinfoilhat 5.1.1


        The elderly in Auckland may be driven from their homes because the ACC has chosen to enforce outrageous rate increases well above the rate inflation on a number of residents.

  5. Chooky 6

    Another brilliant topical interview by Kathryn Ryan and her team

    ‘Straight conversations about racial and religious differences’


    “Former chairman of the UK’s Equality and Human Rights Commission Trevor Phillips talks about his documentary Things we won’t say about race but are true, which created a bit of a backlash when it screened recently on Britain’s Channel Four. He was the chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality during the Blair Government and quickly concluded that while a commitment to multiculturalism was fine in theory, it had become a racket in many parts of the UK. He says many people are reluctant to speak their minds fearing they will be branded racist. He believes race issues must be open for debate – and when he spoke publicly about his concerns that Britain could be “sleepwalking to segregation”, a political firestorm erupted. More than a decade on Trevor Phillips says desperation to avoid offense, is standing in the way of progress, and the drive to instil respect for diversity is resulting in a stifling of conversations about racial or religious differences.”

    • Puckish Rogue 6.1

      The lefts chickens are coming home to roost, anytime someone says anything to do with race the left disagrees with you can bet it’ll be followed by cries of racist, xenophobic, red neck etc etc and complaints laid with race relations so the left made this bed and now they get to experience what its like to lie in it

      • Chooky 6.1.1

        rather I would say the Rights’ nact chickens are coming home to roost…when NZers realise that vast areas of New Zealand are now owned by Chinese…jonkey nact knows this …but for some reason it has suited them not to hunt for and reveal the real statistics

        …eg is it true as one Christchurch Real Estate agent has said …that 40 houses were bought each by two Hong Kong Chinese families ….sum total 80 houses in Christchurch !…and large parts of Riccarton are now owned by overseas Chinese ?!

        …how will the local nact families feel about this?….when the truth comes out

        • Puckish Rogue

          is it true as one Christchurch Real Estate agent has said

          Well since a real estate said it then it must be absolutely true as real estate agents are some of the most trusted people out there and would never exaggerate to make a point

          Labour should immediately run with this information, I can forsee no problems if they do

          • Chooky

            on the other hand as Real Estate agents make money out of house sales…it would be in their financial interests to shutup about who is causing the housing market frenzy

            ….so maybe this is one honest Real Estate agent…and he did say it in a private conversation …and not to a newspaper

            ….so why aren’t the facts and figures out there for all to see?…surely jonkey nactional and yourself would like to dispel these reports?…and fast!…and why is it taking soooo long?

            ….or is it now the Chinese Nactional Party?…inwhich case we really do have problems

            • Puckish Rogue

              on the other hand as Real Estate agents make money out of house sales…it would be in their financial interests to shutup about who is causing the housing market frenzy
              – Not if they think its creating a bubble and the bubbles about to burst

              so maybe this is one honest Real Estate agent
              – I’d trust a politician over a real estate agent
              …and he did say it in a private conversation…and not to a newspaper
              – I say lots of things in private conversations, for all sorts of reasons

              ….so why aren’t the facts and figures out there for all to see?…surely jonkey nactional and yourself would like to dispel these reports?…and fast!…and why is it taking soooo long?
              – It hasn’t been an issue until now

              ….or is it now the Chinese Nactional Party?…inwhich case we really do have problems
              – Scared of the yellow peril? Labours certainly hit their target haven’t they

              • Chooky

                … this has been an issue for quite some time….just that you didnt realise it…or want to see it….or cover it up ( like the cat covers it up) .

                …Winston Peters has certainly talked about it for long enough…and been accused of being a “racist” …when actually I think his accusers are reverse racists…or he would have been Prime Minister of New Zealand long ago!…certainly Winston Peters is head and shoulders above most nacts and his middle class w..ky critics in intelligence , ethics, political acumen …and forward thinking about what is best for New Zealand

                so diddums ….little pucky…rogue …. back to your cooking sherry.

        • Adele

          Kiaora Chooky

          “…when NZers realise that vast areas of NZ are owned by Chinese…”

          could easily read..

          “…when Maori saw that most of Aotearoa was now owned by Poms…

          The people defending Labour over this matter are all hypocrites. Maori home ownership is currently 28% in comparison to Pakeha home ownership at approx 64%.

          Home ownership rates for Maori have been crap since forever but it has only become an issue when white people are not able to compete in a competitive market.

          I am all for restricting speculative purchasing from foreign buyers but to single out Chinese people is racist pure and simple.

          • marty mars

            + 1 Yep

            “but it has only become an issue when white people are not able to compete in a competitive market.”

            This is the driver of it all – plus votes for a stagnant labour

            • Colonial Viper

              Yep Adele bullseye’d that.

              Or as I put it: this is about the comfortable middle class (and their kids) being outbid by Chinese for that $800K Onehunga villa.

              • Chooky

                …bullshit !

                • you have crossed the henhouse and you can’t come back, just yet – sad, I’ve stuck up for you in the past.

                  • Chooky

                    actually i have stuck up for you marty mars…sad..you have definitely gone down in my estimation…however lets not waste time pretending…

                    • we are sad together yet apart double sad – nevermind tomorrows another day – I find these polarising debates difficult – agreeing with some i normally disagree with and vice versa – too much really – sorry (habit tonight) – i think i’ll go to bed now – kia kaha

          • Chooky

            @ Adele …even when reportedly two Hong Kong families swoon in and buy up 40 houses each in Christchurch?…sum total 80 houses in one rich greedy pickings swoop?….when many NZers in Christchurch are sleeping rough in cars and homeless…I think you are missing out on the scale of the problem!

            …and it is going to get a whole lot worse for Maori!…as well as Pakeha…This is NOT racism…Maybe you should take a trip to China and see what the conditions are like over there for poor Chinese ….and then take a trip to Tibet and see the oppression they live under



            btw …I do have Maori ancestry …and have an ancestor who signed the Treaty …so I know what you are talking about as regards inequality for Maori….so dont come the “hypocrite” appellation with me!….I was also brought up by a solo Mother who survived with 4 children on money per week in the single figures before real benefits for solo parents….we survived on what she grew in the garden and the eggs her free-range chooks produced…every few days we sent a huge crate away to Christchurch to the market( this involved finding ,collecting and if necessary washing eggs into the late night …she worked herself to the bone …but she believed in education for her children

            …Many Maori from humble beginnings have done well for themselves using free state education and gone to university and got jobs as lawyers, teachers, entrepreneurs…so dont cry me a river
            …because if you dont get real about the ransacking of our country things are going to get one hell of a lot tougher

          • Draco T Bastard

            Home ownership rates for Maori have been crap since forever but it has only become an issue when white people are not able to compete in a competitive market.

            A competitive market is where everyone has the same chance. We do not have that here instead we have billionaires buying up homes because they’ve got nothing else to do with the money against the people who need the homes but can’t afford to live.

            I am all for restricting speculative purchasing from foreign buyers but to single out Chinese people is racist pure and simple.

            The only people who singled out the Chinese buyers were the Chinese buyers. Nobody else.

            • weka

              Get rid of the foreign millionaires and I think the Māori/Pākehā stats won’t change that much. We should still get rid of the foreign millionairs of course, but let’s not pretend that this will make housing in NZ affordable to the people that really need it.

      • Paul 6.1.2

        Peter Calder.

        “I’m angry that people I used to call friends, who worked in high-paying and productive jobs, some of them advancing the interests of the socially disadvantaged, now ruminate in semi-retirement, devoting a few hours a week to maintaining their property portfolios.

        I’m angry that simple-minded liberals cry “racism” when this newspaper publishes figures that suggest – no bolder claim than that is made – that Chinese buyers are exerting a powerful influence in the property market. I’m angry that debate has become about xenophobia rather than whether non-resident foreign investors from whatever country you care to name are crushing our young people out of the market.

        I’m angry that the Housing Minister dismisses the figures as flaky rather than instituting an inquiry to establish whether they are valid. I’m angry that the Government, far from shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, is wondering where the door is, or rather denying the existence of doors.”

        Get it, pr?


        • Chooky

          +100 Paul….and the Green Party have some explaining to do…jumping on the nact bandwagon and attacking Labour and accusing them of “crude racist profiling”

          I am not the only Green voter/supporter angry with the Green Party…they have shitted on Labour ….their potential/only coalition partner

          …or maybe now the Greens are thinking of forming a coalition with jonkey Nactional ?….they should recall what happened to their plumetting support a week out from the last Election when it was rumoured they were going into coalition with nactional

          …and btw having a single issue of climate change wont keep the Green vote afloat..Mana/Int or Labour could just as easily adopt this policy as did Kevin Rudd in Australia….(and I think the OZ Greens undercut him and supported Gilliard who was no supporter of Rudds climate change policy…I consider Rudd to be a truly great Greenie)

          …really these days it is not what political parties say they stand for or what their name/brand is …it is so easily corrupted ….they are judged on the day by what they do and how they conduct themselves ….

          • Paul

            Yes the same as you chooky.
            Green Party has disappointed here.

            • Draco T Bastard


              I’m thoroughly pissed off by how the Greens have responded here. They’ve simply jumped on the racist bandwagon rather than engage constructively.

          • tinfoilhat

            Yes Chooky how disgraceful of the Green party to have acted and spoken out in line with their principles with no regard to the political consequences…. 🙄

  6. ianmac 7

    Chooky, “….many people are reluctant to speak their minds fearing they will be branded racist. ”
    Unless like Mr Twyford they weather the racist label or the Press on the same issue in Vancouver.

  7. ianmac 8

    The Hager case 10am today:
    “Mr Horsley has told the court that laws like the Search and Surveillance Act 2012 – under which the warrant for the Hager raid was issued – are “provisions that are designed to impinge upon in some way, shape or form, our rights to privacy….They are codified, justified limitations on those rights.”

    Oh oh. So that sneaky 2012 Act has been used to justify the raid. What if the Statute does justify such actions? If so we are all stuffed.

  8. half crown 9

    We are always being told by the right that they are the only ones who know how to handle finances

    Well get a load of this.


    No wonder the world is in a shit state.

  9. Ergo Robertina 10

    The BMJ medical journal in Britain features a debate between the two opposing sides on homeopathy this week:

    ”Peter Fisher, Director of Research at the Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine, says that of all the major forms of complementary medicine, homeopathy is the most misunderstood.
    He questions the methods used to review the evidence for homeopathy.
    “Doctors should put aside bias based on the alleged implausibility of homeopathy. When integrated with standard care homeopathy is safe, popular with patients, improves clinical outcomes without increasing costs, and reduces the use of potentially hazardous drugs, including antimicrobials.”
    But Edzard Ernst, Emeritus Professor at the University of Exeter, says most independent systematic reviews of randomised controlled trials “have failed to show that homeopathy is effective” …

    It’s good to see the two sides seemingly given equal prominence. Can’t imagine the New Zealand Medical Journal being up for something like this! But then, we don’t debate lots of issues in NZ – people are too scared.

  10. Ovid 11

    New Zealand has been ranked 16th out of 30 in terms of “soft power”. Suck it, Belgium.

    • weka 11.1

      what is soft power?

      • Ovid 11.1.1

        In contrast to the coercive nature of hard power, soft power describes the use of positive attraction and persuasion to achieve foreign policy objectives.

        Soft power shuns the traditional foreign policy tools of carrot and stick, seeking instead to achieve influence by building networks, communicating compelling narratives, establishing international rules, and drawing on the resources that make a country naturally attractive to the world.

  11. adam 12

    This from one of the most conservative institutions in Australia – the AFL. It’s a whole piece on work place safety on the footy field. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-15/afl-must-automatically-ban-players-who-knock-out-opponents-in-sling-tackles-barrett

    Is it just me, or when Australians can talk about the sports field, and the players on it as a workplace. Then talk about the obvious concerns for player/worker health, well-being, and safety – has it dawned on you how truly backwards, and indeed pitiful New Zealand has become in looking after people, just for going to work.

    Helen Kelly has led this charge!! We need to join her in condemning the shocking work practice that allow men, and women to: die, suffer loss of limb, have substantial time off work through injury, suffer stress, experience mental anguish, and/or be permanently injured – just for going to work.

  12. Charles 13

    You can’t say they won’t make you think: “Cultural appropriation and rich people…”


    This series has progressed in leaps and bounds and, in certain ways, this is the best episode yet. They talk about and demonstrate good journalistic practice, more importantly, they use opportunites to constructively expand on their life experience; and their plans to interview people who hold opposing views to their own will be something to look forward to.

    But there is a major irony going on in this one. Can you spot it? I’m offended… somewhat put out… out of pocket even, at a time when my pockets are shallow. Or I would be, if I didn’t have the luxury of shifting my perspective. I don’t mind if the hypocritical point out my lesser crimes, crimes less than their own. If you can see it, you have an obligation to act, don’t you?

    There is nothing more for it. They suggest I should, no, demand I move further “Left”… or perhaps further into the Leftfield. It’s very inconvenient. Umm, which drugs would get me there faster?

  13. cricklewood 14

    Speculation is the issue both foreign and local, surely one tool seldom mentioned would be to greatly strengthen laws around tenancy and the rights of the tennant. Greater restrictions on rent increases and make it vastly more difficult to remove long term tenants if selling would help make speculation are far less attractive proposition.

    • weka 14.1

      Sounds good to me. Would love to see the debate open up like this. I suspect others on all sides would too. Thanks.

  14. Charles 15

    As John Lennon once said, “You may say I’m a dreamer. But I’m not.”.

  15. Paul 16

    The Herald really don’t like Len Brown if this becomes their top story.


    • Weepus beard 16.1

      These are the same people who feel it’s the Auckland Council’s job to build infrastructure for the cash for visa immigrants that are currently plaguing or country.

      These are the same people who think it’s the Auckland Council’s job to mow their berms.

      These are the same people who castigate Len Brown for having an affair while having affairs of their own.

  16. Draco T Bastard 17

    Tackling the healthy diet price gap

    This discussion of the details is important but the broader point shouldn’t be missed. Not one measure alone will solve the issue of obesity because the problem transcends the prices of sugary drinks and relates to the whole economic and social food environment in which we act. NEF research has shown that obesity is just one symptom of a more fundamentally broken food system. Why the price gap between diets exists in the first place, and whether some of that gap is policy-related is important to unpick. But in the system we find ourselves, fiscal measures such as the BMA’s proposed sugar tax combined with subsidies for healthy foods would improve the health of society and should be met with support.

    As with cars and supermarkets not giving free delivery we have a financial system that produces bad food and poor diets. This poor outcome needs to be addressed and the only way we have to address it is through legislation and regulation.

  17. Heartbleeding Liberal 18

    I overheard someone say “deport the bastards” in reference to Chinese New Zealanders. If you’re going to be a racist prick, at least understand the basic facts of the issue..

    • Charles 18.1

      That’s the problem. Labour and Twyford don’t get to control how the stupid, that they released, will manifest out there in real life. They can say this or that and walk away, but the average fool they incite, who just needs an excuse to lash-out, they can’t control them. And guess who’ll get it in the neck? Not Twyford, not Little, not a nice white middle-class member of The Labour Party – not even us here talking about it (with some potential exceptions). It happens “out there” in real life. That’s the front line.

      • BM 18.1.1

        I don’t think they really care about the collateral damage, they’ve got their eye on the big prize which is gaining power and they’ll do whatever it takes.

        As some one else wrote, Chinese New Zealanders tend to vote National, so it’s no loss.

        • Weepus beard


          Colonial Viper and Phil Quin’s Shih Tzu were the only Chinese New Zealanders to vote Labour last time around.

        • Charles

          I’m curious as to why Labour would do it. Little said he “knew the risk”. What risk? What would induce Labour to “risk” the long term (and collateral) damage of a racist label? The event seemed to happen within a quiet media communications period… like nothing was happening as far as voters were concerned, and then, bang, for no reason Labour do something really dumb. It’s not like they’re in any position to change the property market. They could’ve sat on this for two years and the information would’nt have made a difference to who buys property. To wait that long might’ve even pushed them over the line by a percent, for a win. The timing seems all wrong… unless there is something happening we can’t see.

          If what you say it true i.e. Chinese don’t vote Labour, then all they did was “enwhiten” their members, polarise voters, gain no extra support and eliminated any fence-sitters who might’ve considered them. Since people/organisations usually do something loud and stupid to draw attention away from what is about to be obvious, it must be a real doozy about to hit the media. What’s more terminal to a Party than being unrepentantly racist?

          What’s the general list of (moral or legal) no-nos for a NZ politician or Party?

  18. lprent 19

    At a Labour Outreach thing with Andrew Little speaking. Sort of a party/ talkfest. New…

  19. Nessalt 20


    What’s happening there? Hopefully putting together a cohesive broad based fiscal policy platform that revisits capital gains tax. The more I think about the implications of it, cost v benefit, the more I think it needs to be implemented pre pre-bust boom.

    • lprent 20.1

      …revisits capital gains tax.

      Agreed. However capital gains is longer term fix. It diminishes the peak of the next boom and helps reduce the probability of a bubble. This particular bubble has gotten well beyond that now. Would have helped in 2011/2

  20. infused 21

    Labour dun goofed. One person fired and now looks like thr leak was through a newspaper

  21. I watched Brown Eye on Māori TV last night – bloody funny – recommended.


  22. Penny Bright 23

    The BIGGIE?

    TPPA – walk away?

    Can Fonterra representatives see the text of the TPPA – yes or no?

    If no – how can Fonterra be sure that Minister of Trade Tim Groser IS negotiating the best possible deal for NZ dairy?

    Penny Bright

  23. ankerawshark 24

    Just saw Tova O’Brien’s report on TV 3 news about the Chinese house buyers. Visited a few of the houses on the list. All she found were Chinese residents or citizens, except one renter who didn’t know who his landlord was. Then quite a significant proportion of people not at home (???off shore). Then concludes its a dog whistle and Labour gone wrong.

    Great Tova, Spinning for National again.

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