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Open mike 15/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, August 15th, 2014 - 288 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

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The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

288 comments on “Open mike 15/08/2014 ”

  1. Matthew Hooton 1

    The Cunliffe effect continues: http://origin-interactives.stuff.co.nz/polling/
    David Parker, Jacinda Ardern and Andrew Little all now at risk.

    • mickysavage 1.1

      So Matthew your thoughts on Hager’s book. Have you read it yet? It explains the current state of politics quite well.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.2

      Oh dear, first I wake up to hear Stephen Franks panicking on RNZ, now we have Matthew Hooton clutching at straws on the PM’s new favourite blog. Oh, what a wonderful day!

      This is the relevant bit of the Stuffed poll:

      Party Vote percentages are only based on eligible and decided voters. Respondents who are undecided, do not intend to vote or are ineligible to do so are excluded from the Party Vote.

      • mickysavage 1.2.1

        Greens are down by a similar proportion and the poll suggests Labour’s vote in Christchurch has collapsed to just over half its previous level.

        Most unlikely. More unlikely that progressives are deciding whether to vote Labour or Green and also lack of landlines is having a disproportionately random effect.

        • Enough is Enough

          You bring a smile to my face Micky Savage, with your positive outlook of the state of play. It is refreshing.

          I wake up and despair at our failure to get traction even when we are releasing good winning policy. The trends in the polls are to me depressing, and very confusing.

          Thank you for bringing another perspective to the numbers.

      • marty mars 1.2.2

        The wide-eyed panic is so satisfying – I’m loving it too.

      • Dumrse 1.2.3

        At 22.5% don’t you think its time to focus on what’s important. Never mind Hager, the majority of NZ don’t give a FRA’s.

        • Enough is Enough

          That is my concern. They are no really surprised that shock horror Whale, Collins and National are nasty people.

          The problem right now is we are being suffocated.

          Tea Pot Tapes anyone? The left was drowned out for days in 2011 when the talk should have been about asset sales we were crapping on about Key and Banks.

          Time for Cunliffe to get people talking about healthcare and positive progressive policies again.

          • monty

            Although I am firmly on the right, I can see The “Dirty politics” becoming a massive distraction. This book which labour have little control of does totally undermin labours vote positive campaign. Even if by association. WhaleOil is just loving the pubicity. But I seriously doubt there will be any consequence at the polls.

            labours other big issue is the inability to get its teeth into anything substantial. In 2011 labour and the left had Asset Sales. There is no such issue this year

            When will labour get to talk about policy? I have not heard any more about their $300m health policy since Monday. I went to the candidates meeting in Mt Vic Last night. The room seemed to be full of lefties, but it was green issues that dominated. Issues like the flyover, climate change (yawn) transport for students, binding referendums and the green belt. Economy barely got a mention. No substantial Labour policy was promoted.

            With Labour on 22.5% five weeks out from the election! things are looking very dire. Where is the substantial issue that labour can get its teeth into that captures the imagination of NZers. Or are the parties to the left of Labour just too toxic for middle NZ?

            • weka

              Labour aren’t on 22.5%

              Irrespective of the effect on the election, do you believe there are public interest issues to be looked at that Hager raises in his book? eg the SIS allegations?

              • monty

                I have not read the hager book, and maybe will buy a copy when in the $2 bin. There is so much conjecture in the book that my take is that it is largely being written off and congratulations to the right for being effective in discrediting it. In some ways I think the irony of the left who have screamed about secret spies and hacking by government is not lost when this book is a direct result of the sort of behaviours the left have previously moaned about.

                • TeWhareWhero

                  “I have not read the hager book” …..”there is so much conjecture in the book” that I have not read …. Way to go Monty.

    • Saarbo 1.3

      Re-Think on Maori TV last Monday night had a must see programme on Polls, where Winston Peters was at his best explaining of the damage that inaccurate polls have on the elections (don’t roll your eyes until you see the programme;-)). The other thing re latest Stuff poll, given the incredible dishonesty that the National Party and their cronies have introduced in New Zealand now, we don’t really know whether these Polls are truly representative or whether some vested interests pushing polls in a certain direction, just my thoughts.

      • Tom Jackson 1.3.1

        I’d thought that, but there’s no proof.

      • Olwyn 1.3.2

        This poll is far too handy at the moment. We can put that book to one side, and go back to
        the old “How is Labour going to lift its performance? Is a change of leader possible five minutes out from an election? What do you think John?”

        Furthermore, it runs counter to the mood of the large exuberant crowd I saw at the Labour campaign launch. Sure they were party members, but party members usually have a pretty good instinct for whether or not their party is on the ropes. I will be taking all polls with a grain of salt from now until election day, and concentrating on the only poll that matters.

      • disturbed 1.3.3


        These stuff polls are rigged see below.

        We actually were called by them and they are selecting their own preferences.

        After finding some details of us they declined to take our preference for who we would vote for and stopped the poll with us.

        You know now that these polls are definitely rigged.

        • greywarbler

          @ disturbed 9,.23
          Thanks for giving your info on the conduct of the poll. Very good to know their procedures.

        • Lindsey

          I was called for this Stuff Poll as well.
          I refused to answer a lot of the questions because they were loaded or biased.

          Example – who do you want to see more of or fewer of in Parliament? Options included dairy farmers and Trade Union delegates.

          A lot of it was just nonsense.

      • ianmac 1.3.4

        That was a sharp well conducted discussion on polls. Can’t find it on Maori TV.

    • Colonial Viper 1.4

      Matthew, when is the PM stepping down from his Intelligence oversight duties, or does he need to stay in place for the moment in order to keep feeding SIS spy dirt on Opposition politicians?

    • trickledrowm 1.5

      Machiavellian Henchman you of course knew nothing or weren’t involved in any of these dirty tricks aye Hooton you must of been involved!
      The next polls may not be so kind.
      so make the most of it.

    • Bearded Git 1.6

      Mathew, this is a slightly weird poll, though agreed a disaster for Labour/the Left if accurate.

      Labour’s vote among over 65’s has dropped from 29.1% to 18.7%. If this is true, and such a massive change has to be suspect, then it may be due to the IMP effect (Fuck John Key) pushing older voters to vote against the wider left.

      15% undecided is also very high. If they were going to vote for Key IMO they would have made their mind up by now so I think most of this will go to the Left.

      I would wait for the latest Roy Morgan, which is imminent, before jumping to any conclusions.

      • Karen 1.6.1

        The “Fuck John Key” video would have had an effect but much more because of the bundling of it together so with the idiotic Labour candidate’s Shylock comment, the effigy burning and the anti-semetic billboard graffiti.

        Interestingly, all these things which occurred over a couple of weeks were all strung together on in the media just before or during the Fairfax poll. Coincidence? Maybe, but I have my doubts. A pity Nicky Hager hasn’t got the emails past January this year.

        • monty

          I have noted on another blog and had a chat with grant Robertson last night about this. Internet mana are doing absolutely no favours to labour. They simply are toxic to many NZers who resent and quite correctly the way KDC is using our democracy as his personal plaything to avoid extradition.

          Indirect association with IMP F*** John Key effigy burning anti semantic bill board destroying nasty politics is making NZ realise that National must be the only logical government.

          On the polling this morning I suggest the public have turned off on the left. They will not offer stable government.

          • marty mars

            “the way KDC is using our democracy as his personal plaything to avoid extradition.”

            How exactly is he doing that monty?

            • monty

              Maybe NGO and read WhaleOil for a more full discussion ( I know what you will say about WhaleOil) but essentially establishing a political party, pairing you with hone and throwing $3m into the bucket and paying Laila to front so that if IMP hold balance of power there will be the expectation of influence to prevent deportion.

              • McFlock

                So are you saying that party donations are made on the expectation of future influence?

                That’s the dumb way of doing it.

                KDC’s objective is to shaft dunnokeyo, because an honest government wouldn’t extradite even if KDC lost the court battles.

                So he funds the party up front because the party’s existence aids a change in government – just like the New Zealand Party did (albeit via different mechanisms). Just as colon craigslist funds a vanity party because he’s a dick and wants everybody to see how much of a dick he is (nb: actual motivations may differ).

                For example, when Owen Glenn explicitly promised on TV to pay millions to help poor children, he said it would be after and contingent upon a national government being elected. That’s how you maintain leverage to get the outcome you want. If the juice is simply having a stronger party that supports the general objective you have, you just give them the money up front.

                • Dumrse

                  “So are you saying that party donations are made on the expectation of future influence? That’s the dumb way of doing it.”

                  Dumb? It’s what the Labour Unions do all the time. Perhaps you need to drop your leader an email and tell him how dumb the party really is. Oh, never mind, 55% of the country knows that already.

                  • McFlock

                    you wish 55%.

                    If the unions genuinely expected the quid pro quo you’re alleging, then Lab4 would have disabused them of that notion.

                    But really you’re just giving back double – national have been exposed as being dirty, so you attack the left with claims of outright bribery.

                    btw – I’m not in the Labour party.

              • “…there will be the expectation of influence to prevent deportion.”

                No there won’t.

                I hope that alleviates your unfounded fears.

    • Blue 1.7

      If you believe National is currently on 55% support Matthew, then I have a very nice bridge I can sell you.

      • Matthew Hooton 1.7.1

        My rule of thumb is to subtract 5 points from National’s polling numbers.

        • Enough is Enough

          what’s your rule for Labour?

          • monty

            The vote for labour can also collapse. I’m not sure Matthew Hooton is correct about the 5%. True it happened in 2011, but that election there was the unpopular asset sales and the tea pot tapes.

            In the absence of an election defining issue, no asset sales, no tea pot tapes saga ( including the “dirty politics” ) national will run a very controlled campaign and their vote is likely to hold up strongly. I think Labour really need to look at why they are not appealing to the middle ground. To me the answer is so obvious.

        • Skinny

          Hooton we know not to take any notice of these crap polls. We know the numbers are coming out to vote this election. Spoken & signed up too many people to know that Key-National are out of office.

          Your not the only ones good at spin. We have a nice little number coming up that will resonate with Kiwi’s and say ‘wow that is a Government in waiting.’ Such great policies and their all in harmony, who would have thought going on those stupid polls, hmm probably has something to do with more corrupt goings on.

          Key-National are starting to smell real rotten and John Key appears to have lost his shiny teflon coat and is now speckled in shit.

      • Shrubbery 1.7.2

        (Hint, the bridge is in the middle of the Whanganui National Park, and crosses a tributary of the Whanganui river)

    • Ennui 1.8

      Matthew some questions?
      Are you actually David Farrar, or maybe Mr Ede?
      Are you maybe Guyon, or possibly that sneary looking little fellow on TV3?
      Or perhaps are you a small insect often found under wood piles?
      Could you possibly actually be John Key, or Tony Joyce?

      I am having such great difficulty working out who is actually who, all that I can say for sure is that the orchestrated harmony over Hagers book leads me to believe that the choir practices are well attended and regular. What are the acoustics like in the PMs Office?

    • Enough is Enough 1.9

      I have been crunching the numbers over my coffee table Matthew

      Essentially Labour needs to recover to 25% and the left wins. They need to get some work to get there but I am confident.

      Green Mana Internet NZF

      We will win Hoots

      Cunliffe will be YOUR prime minister

  2. amirite 2

    I can believe this, are Kiwis stupid, or callous, or both? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/polls/10385525/Labour-at-new-low-poll

    • Tom Jackson 2.1


      Looks like we’ll end up with an openly corrupt government this time. It’s like Muldoon: popular authoritarianism.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

        Oh forget about that, Key and National are fucked at this stage.

        • Tom Jackson

          In a rational world, they would be.

          Note that David Cunliffe was called on to resign over a bottle of wine he didn’t buy or something like that, yet the papers have decided that some unspecified “cleaning house” will be enough to let National off the hook.

          People believe this crap.

        • greywarbler

          @ colonial viper 7.30
          Keep up that positivity. I get anxious sometimes.

    • crocodill 2.2

      First comment on that “story” makes me laugh. Some fool saying that all Labour did in the old days was tax people heavily and then did NOTHING but blow it all on welfare programs. NOTHING, I tell you. Welfare is NOTHING.

      Now fair cop, I do kinda squint at the idea of Labour getting an extra $60 a week out to people earning up to the close end of 150K a year, for their kid’s nappies or whatever, while explicitly leaving out any reference to people who aren’t earning and who would like some nappies, too. When accused of bourgeois attitudes toward the poor, Labour tend to veer off into mindless objectivity land in an attempting to prove otherwise, where, since no one should have to be labelled deserving or not, they promptly forget their power and position and the effect of money in a socio-economic context and give equal welfare to rich and poor alike. Stuff like that probably heightens an overall NZ hatred of welfare by certain people who hated the idea anyway.

      So to answer your question, yes, to both.

    • David H 2.3

      Well it seems to have quickly disappeared from the front page, very unusual for Stuff to take the gloating headline down so early.

  3. A lot more than tables gonna be upended oil exploiters – get used to the opposition, get used to the strong feelings and physical actions/reactions and get used to your incomprehension of what people are upset about and once you’ve got used to it – fuck off.

    However, Mr Haremo said he had no chance to discuss those issues. He listened to opinions from iwi and hapu, then the table-turning protest cut the meeting short.

    He found it hard to grasp what had happened and why. He already knew Kiwis cared about their environment – that had been clear from the June 9 hui in Kaitaia – but was surprised by the “physical part, the turning of the tables”.


    and this video is awesome – love all the flags


  4. Gruntie 4

    Connection between labour polls and dirty smear tactics by TeamKey (Slater Farrar, Hoskibg & co)

    • Rosie 4.1

      I heard on RNZ this morning that the stuffed poll was conducted between Saturday and Wednesday of last week, so no connection there.

      • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1

        Yes but was taken after Labours campaign launch and their policy of free GP visits for the elderly

        • tricledrown

          and the $16 billion dollar bullshit Key and cronies put out when fact National have a $14 billion dollar spending program

          • Puckish Rogue

            Don’t worry about that just keep focusing on Nicky Hagers allegations 🙂

            • Dumrse

              You’re falling on deaf ears. Theses nothing in it, get over it. Move on to what’s important….stay focused. Do what the leader said.

        • ianmac

          It is very unlikely that there is an instant response to current events. But remember that 15% are undecided. That is 150 out of the 1,000 or that the poll reflects just 850 of those asked.

          • Puddleglum

            Party vote was calculated out of 803 people who gave a preference. Sample was 1007 so 204 people either ‘did not know’, refused to provide a preference, etc..

            442 people chose National out of 1007 in the total sample. 181 chose Labour, 91 Greens, 27 NZ First.

            Their polling methodology also uses weighting though they don’t provide details for individual polls.

            For example, if they get too few responses from Canterbury they would scale up the responses they do have so as to be a proportion of the overall NZ population who come from Canterbury. An assumption is that the people they do call in, for example, Canterbury are representative of Cantabrians. That assumption is used to justify the upscaling of the responses they did get from actual Cantabrians.

      • disturbed 4.1.2

        You said today 15th August the stuff poll was taken Saturday and Wednesday of last week, so that’s between 6th and 9th August.

        If I was called on Wednesday 13th August by Stuff pollsters, and you said that last poll was conduced between 6-9th the next poll will be showing the Hager factor?

        This will be why the media are so anti Hager right now trying to drag down any swing voters that might consider switching to labour for their next poll I was contacted for on 15th and denied by vote by stuff pollsters.

        This all shows a pattern the MSM (stuff) & others along with our own taxpayer public media also are involved intensely with National on a corrupted campaign to get Key re-elected if they are indeed successful in causing rigged polls showing a direct stump of Labour support.

        I had a call this morning from a mate in Australia who said that the Australian political arena is in a turmoil now with PM’s being found corrupted after watchdog agency ICAC (Independent Investigation Against Corruption has found a number of M.P.s all now facing corruption charges.

        Why do we not have such a public protection Authority such as a similar ICAC?

        This country is corrupt now and need of a total corruption investigation of both Hager’s evidence and opposition evidence also of the list of National MP’s corruption activities.

        There are like Australia many similar examples of corruption of MP’s in NZ, and to not construct a ICAC here to investigate similar corruption going on in NZ is to be complicit with their illegal corrupt activities carrying on to ruin this country and all who call NZ home.

        We call on all opposition MPs and others to call for a ICAC here in NZ (Independent Commission Against Corruption) with Government funding, to begin all our corruption issues currently occurring.

        • alwyn

          Rosie might claim that the Poll was taken from the 6th to the 9th but Fairfax don’t, and it is their poll.
          The Dom/Post this morning says “The poll was taken from August 9 to August 13”.
          These dates are confirmed by the online post (last line)
          It is before Hager’s book but it isn’t the dates she claims.
          Perhaps Rosie can provide a link to the dates she suggests?
          Incidentally the headline says “Nats lick wounds as Labour bleeds” Can anyone explain the first part of that considering that the National percentage was up? At least the online version has a more comprehensible title.

        • Rosie

          disturbed, sorry I got the dates terribly wrong. I thought I heard the news reader say last week, which would have been 2nd to 6th, but of course that miles away from today. All I can say is I suffer from chronic insomnia and I hadn’t my coffee at that point.


          I saw below your comment about being excluded from stuff’s polling because you didn’t fit their sample quota. Out of interest what time on Wednesday 13th did they phone you? I also wonder how pollsters in general obtain contact details for their survey participants and whether they can bias their results with their selection of participants.

          Interesting about the Aussie ICAC – I absolutely agree with you we need a similar structure in place here. My greatest fear is that every corrupt thing that has occurred in the last 6 years (and prior), will just be allowed to slip away, and the enormity of it buried in spin. There has been very little in the media focusing on the actual allegations in the book, and more to do with Nat reaction.

          What do we have left if the public accept what the media says and just shrugs their shoulders at the content of Hagar’s book? A hollow nation?

  5. felix 5

    Something I’d like to see the media address to Joyce and Key and their minions:

    Are the emails stolen? Or are they made-up?

    • A very good point felix.

      If they are ‘lies’ and made up then they haven’t been stolen.

      If they were stolen and have been altered then Cameron Slater can produce the original emails and show the difference. He has the power to establish beyond any doubt that Hager is fraudulently presenting evidence. Will he use it?

      Alternatively, the emails and their presentation by Hager in his book are valid and so Slater will not wish to present evidence that corroborates Hager’s work. He will therefore not be showing us the original emails – that is, he will not be able to produce a ‘smoking gun’ over Hager’s alleged ‘dirty politics’.

    • BLiP 5.2

      Key was – sort of – asked that very question at about 05:05 into yesterday’s stand-up at the rest home. His answer . . .

      “I don’t have any information on that”.

  6. kenny 6

    John Key’s first instinct is to lie.

    John Key is a liar. Bear this in mind when he speaks.

    FJK! FJK! Fuck John Key.

    • monty 6.1

      And here you demonstrate exactly why middle NZ is getting put off the left. Especially in light of the vote positive campaign. This is a milder version of burning effigys, chants, billboard vandalism, and the odd ( and thankfully rare ) anti Semitic statement.

      Where is the attitude that captures the imagination of middle NZ ?

    • idlegus 6.2

      “John Key is a liar. Bear this in mind when he squeaks.” ; )

  7. kenny 7

    Jason Ede and Cameron Slater have nothing to fear if they have nothing to hide.

    So why are they hiding?

    • Puckish Rogue 7.1

      Cameron Slaters right here: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/

      • felix 7.1.1

        Nope, that’s Ede.

      • Rosie 7.1.2

        Hey Puke. I have just one question for you, it is a sincere and genuine question.

        I really want to know how you can support a person like Slater when they demonstrate a sociopathic streak in their hatred for humanity and disrespect for the dead and those who are suffering loss?

        I am talking about the “West Coast Feral” comment and the Christchurch Feb 2011 comment.

        Do you think such statements are acceptable?

        • Puckish Rogue

          I don’t agree with everything the guy says but a lot of the time hes right on the money but its interesting that he had information that Len Brown “slept” with hookers but didn’t publish it yet Nicky Hager did

          I guess I’d have to say I’m not my brothers keeper

          • Rosie

            Clearly his anti social, spiteful and hurtful comments aren’t enough to put you off though. I guess you can be selective about what you do and don’t “agree” with.

            Thanks for the viewpoint.

            Anyway, speaking of Hagar, I’ve just had a call from the book store to inform me that my reserved copy is ready to picked up. As mentioned yesterday, my advice to you would be to read it too. Might be unwise to continue defending your team when you don’t know what it is you’re defending.

            • felix

              Rosie, when Puke says he doesn’t agree with everything Slater says, why do you assume he means he doesn’t agree with the really nasty, racist, misogynist, homophobic, hateful bits?

              After all, he links to them non-stop all day every day.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Pretty sure I don’t link to things like the West Coast ferals and scum christchurch people but you appear to know more about what I do then I do so maybe you can bring up a link

              • Rosie

                felix I don’t for one minute assume that Puke “doesn’t agree with the really nasty, racist, misogynist, homophobic, hateful bits?”

                He never answered my question about supporting wail oil and he never answered my question about those comments of wails being acceptable.

                He did provide an evasive answer that didn’t in any way deny that he finds those comments appalling.

                The reason I’m not taking it up with him is because I simply can’t be bothered pursuing a more definite answer – he’s not going to give it.

                And why don’t I bother? Because I am related to this these types of people with these types of views, and it’s enough to deal with them IRL. It’s more than simple disagreement over who you vote for, it extends to who we’ve worked for, and those organisations being in conflict with one another.

                I shouldn’t have even bothered asking in the first place. I did because I don’t know how anyone can bring themselves to support such vile-ness. In the case of the people I know, they turn a blind eye to the unpleasant aspects of their work, just as if it doesn’t exist. I’m guessing this is where Puke is coming from.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Well I might have been more open with you had you called me Puck but instead you called me Puke

                  Now if people want to call me Puke thats all well and good however it makes me assume that they don’t really want an answer, what they really want is confirmation of their own biases and again thats all good as well

                  But it means I won’t give you a considered thought out answer, instead I’ll give you a flippant, off the cuff remark as thats all you deserve

                  • Rosie

                    Oh don’t be so upset Pukey! Have you not noticed that I often give folks a nick name? See it as a sign of affection 😀

          • Murray Olsen

            More absolute bullshit, Pukish. Seaslug was trying to get information that Brown had visited brothels, in particular the Mustang Club, through and ex-working girl of his acquaintance. It doesn’t look like he came up with anything. This is what Nicky Hager published. He did not say Brown slept with hookers. Your attempts at glorifying Slugboy are pathetic. Please take your lies elsewhere.

  8. Puckish Rogue 8

    Poll showing Labour on 22.5% (is this their worst poll ever?) = National panic 🙂

    • felix 8.1

      Yesterday you claimed to have made a slew of accurate predictions over the past 6 years, but when I searched your name I couldn’t find anything older than 10 months.

      Which other handles should I be searching?

    • Enough is Enough 8.2

      Yes you keep looking at Labour rather than the left.

      The Greens are heading into the home straight in the form of their lives. They have lead the debate in the following week and will continue to do so throughout the campaign. Turei was declared the winner of the TV 3 debates from all commentators left and right.

      Greens will hit 15%, guaranteed.

      Mana/IP are gaining traction and will be 4-5%

      If Labour recover to 25% then guess what

      Cunliffe is your leader.

      It is game on.

      Key is gone.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.2.1

        Greens will hit 15%, guaranteed.

        • Maybe

        Mana/IP are gaining traction and will be 4-5%

        • Now you’re just being silly

        If Labour recover to 25% then guess what

        • Probably will get about that
  9. SPC 9

    The recent comment from Charles Finny on Kiwiblog indicate why Paul Henry chose him to review the Hager book.


  10. disturbed 10

    I was called Thursday morning by someone involved with Stuff doing a poll.

    After asking age groups, gender the lady will you take part in this poll that will take 12 minutes and I said yes, then she said are you o/k if she has her observer boss listening in?????

    I was hesitant but said o/k as I knew there was something not right, then she said oh we have already got our quota on that age group thank you for your time and hung up.

    This is very fishy as the very next day out comes this stuffed poll.

    On face these polls are nakedly being cherry picked by a Natz spin doctor who listens in on these calls asking these questions firstly to seed out the “right types” to use for their polls, making them very shady polls indeed.

    We had someone else about ten days ago was saying something like the same thing happened to her also.

    I discounted her story at the time, but having personally experienced this myself so this is not an isolated incident.

    So I am now convinced and worried that with proper conventional rules around constructing these polls, we will continue to get these fictitious poll results.

    • Te Reo Putake 10.1

      I wouldn’t worry too much, disturbed. Quota sampling is a normal polling practice, which is why gender/age/income are often the first questions asked. Mind you, the Stuff/IPSOS poll is generally rubbish anyway, so you didn’t miss much.


      • Karpil 10.1.1

        Yes, but the ‘rubbish’ poll is trending in the wrong direction. That is the worry if it is conducted consistently each time.

    • Marg 10.2

      Yes ‘disturbed’ I had exactly the same experience from Stuff poll Friday last week, and also 4 or 5 months ago same formate but then asked for someone in the house between ages of 18 and 25.

      • disturbed 10.2.1


        Yes they asked me the same exact question, and when I said no he is away, they went on to ask another question.

        As if they were on a fishing expedition as well very fishy.

        It has me now thinking they have a duel purpose of gaining household population sourced details to sell on to marketing targeted interested agencies.

        Could be a cover. see my other inclusion on this blog. W need rules placed here, to loose and manipulating

        Thanks Marg.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I did some polling for a reserch company a while back and the most likely reason they were being specific about the age group is that the other age groups had already been filled otherwise most polls would be filled by over 65s (most likely at home during the day and most likely to answer polls) and wouldn’t be as representative of all of NZs views

  11. CnrJoe 11

    Surely, if this government gets in again they’ll make themselves unelectable for a generation? For the foulness will just become an open suppurating sore. The photo of the beehive 9th floor lit up the other night
    resembles the flaming vagina of Sauron in Jacksons Rings fillums

  12. disturbed 12

    Are there any actual “independent polls being taken right now anyone?

    As these polls all seem to be made up from either MSM Corporate backed sponsors or the National spinners?
    This is corporate takeover of our entire democracy here.

  13. halfcrown 13

    We must not let this Hager thing go away as the National would like it to.
    It must not be shut down like the inquiry into the practices by the Australian grocery chain “Countdown” appears to have been since Jones was “retired from Labour, and got a new job from Mc Cully” and National.”

    • Weepus beard 13.1

      Yes, it needs momentum and that requires others using Nicky Hager’s work to force further information out. Hager’s drive is to show the public the connections between John Key’s office and the increasingly unstable Slater to allow the entire voting public to make up their mind.

      He now needs support in that endeavour.

      Whether our media are up to it or not is the question.

      • Chooky 13.1.1

        this concern that the slippery John Key will slide out and away is real…he must NOT be allowed to…the heat must be kept on the media to face up honestly to the moral issues raised in this book

        ‘If Mr Key won’t read the book before the election, then it’s our responsibility to ask him every day until September 20th’

        By Martyn Bradbury / August 14, 2014

        It’s ironic that many in the mainstream media seem to be attacking Nicky Hager for doing their job properly….

        …it doesn’t matter if you are left wing or right wing, there are serious allegations in this book, and nothing that Slater has said to date as defence washes in any way. This is serious and the authorities dealing with it will take it seriously

        . – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/14/if-mr-key-wont-read-the-book-before-the-election-then-its-our-responsibility-to-ask-him-every-day-until-september-20th/#sthash.kplUPE6U.dpuf

        • Weepus beard

          I know it’s difficult to get a robust message out to all the disaffected who have been hurting under this govt in a way they will notice, but the very real link between the PM’s office and a political activist who genuinely hates the poor and thinks they should all just go away and die quietly would be a good message to send.

    • Puckish Rogue 13.2

      National want this to keep going on long as possible as it takes the focus away from policies, unemployment etc etc

      • Chooky 13.2.1

        @ PR…i think not!

        …slippery John Key and NACT want this to go away !…it is a serious dent in their reputation as honest brokers and moral politicians

        ….feeding the scrofulous beast Slater says it all

        • Puckish Rogue

          I think everyone knows that politics is dodgy so this is no real surprise and theres no smoking gun whereas you compare this to how much the government is borrowing which is real…

          • Weepus beard

            Not this dodgy! I think nearly everyone will be surprised at the depths which this government operates.

            • Puckish Rogue

              Don’t be so naive

            • Puddleglum

              In <a href=’http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2014/08/15/gordon-campbell-on-the-ongoing-fallout-from-nicky-hagers-book/>’>this very good column, Gordon Campbell identifies the ‘smoking gun’ that Hoskings and you appear to have missed.

                • Puckish Rogue

                  So Goffs complaining that he was caught telling porkies and that its not fair he didn’t get away with it…wow thats the game changer* right there

                  *Current game changer as every other game changer hasn’t changed the game at all

                  • Hi Puckish Rogue,

                    I think you’ve missed the politically crucial element here. It has nothing to do with Goff. Rather it concerns the process by which the relevant SIS documents came to be declassified and then rapidly released to the OIA request lodged under Cameron Slater’s name.

                    There’s only one person who has that authority. The Minister in charge of the SIS.

                    Also, we were talking about ‘smoking guns’ not ‘game changers’.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Still no proof sorry only innuendo and that still doesn’t cut it

                    • The relevant extract from the link:

                      Incidentally, the Goff affair completely blows out of the water the claim that the National Party’s relationship with Slater is no different to how politicians routinely engage with journalists. Leave aside the fact that Slater’s tone and intent – to damage and silence critics of the government – is a little bit different to what normally constitutes journalism. Believe me, SIS files are not usually released to journalists – they’re almost always flatly denied, as a matter of course. Moreover, they’re not usually speedily released to meet a timeframe calculated to do the most political damage. Time and again, Slater has enjoyed extraordinary, privileged access to the Beehive and to private information that I would safely bet, is unique. No one else gets briefed in this way, on such topics. Journalists get fed, if at all, quite different levels of information and access. Oh, and in the Goff case, who could possibly have authorised the release of those documents? As Goff indicates, it could only have been the Minister of the Security Services, John Key. If Mike Hosking wants a smoking gun, there’s one.

                      It would be interesting to see, for the last six years, how many OIA requests dealing with SIS files (a) have been released, and (b) if any, how long their release has taken.

                      Edit: under (b), the ‘if any’ should read ‘if any others’ as we know the OIA requests in question were released.

                  • adam

                    Wow, PR. Just wow.

                    Is it wilful ignorance, or just so many years of lying to yourself that you can avoid any argument which does not fit your ideological focused little world view?

                  • felix

                    You mean “John Key releasing SIS material to Slater isn’t a smoking gun”.

                    That’s the line.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      No proof only conjecture

                    • felix

                      Who declassified the material?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Bill English, as acting Prime Minister, while Key was at a NSA briefing baseball game?

                    • McFlock

                      Let us apply a little Venn diagram conjecture: the person who got the file declassified could only be somebody who had:

                      • the clearance to know it existed; and
                      • the political interest and motivation to declassify it before an election; and
                      • the connections to ensure that the declassified document would be seen and understood by the media before the election.

                      Three circles, and our corrupt little declassifier is in the narrow area where all three intersect. Could be anyone. Must be, oooo, as many as well into the low single digits, that list of suspects.

                • weka

                  Campbell nails it in that article.

      • halfcrown 13.2.2

        Answer to PR at 13.2

        Shit I never thought I would agree with you. But I do, about the “takes the focus away from policies,” bit that is

        Pressure has to be kept on Key over this, but also people have to be told alternative policies and what a shit state this country is in for some after 6 years of this government. Remind the general public with better policies AND the Hager saga these are real reasons why we need a change.

        • Puckish Rogue

          The thing is this book isn’t telling people anything they probably didn’t know already, theres no emails from John Key so theres no proof, a number of people have come out and flatly denied whats being said and all the while no ones talking about policies or what Nationals going or haven’t done

          • weka

            Still playing Spin Bingo PR? Getting a bit boring now.

          • Mark

            Going by the Herald, Nicky is going to release the emails because all the scum bags say they are false and misleading. Now the Natz spin doctors are going to really earn their money.

          • Murray Olsen

            Pukish is sounding like the Mexican coroner who ruled that a guy found dead in a police shell had shot himself 6 times in the back of the head in an effort to embarrass the police. Is he worried that the dogs will be set on him if he says anything sensible? Does Seaslug have damning information on his private life?

            He can’t be as stupid as he seems. Or maybe he can. FJK.

    • tricledrown 13.3

      half crown Katherine Rich would have had a hand in that as she is their henchwomen!
      Grocery prices has gone up cosierably in the last 6 months but because of the weight given to the drop in pumpkin prices its masked a 4% rise in groceries in the last 3month reporting period

    • Anne 13.4

      We must not let this Hager thing go away as the National would like it to.

      Hager has got to release the relevant emails. I’m surprised he didn’t anticipate the level of right-wing abuse and denial, and didn’t release them at the same time as the book launch.

      If he doesn’t do so, then Key/Slater and co. will be allowed to get away with it on the grounds:

      There is no proof.

      Unfortunately, the people who need to be convinced of the truth of the claims are the ones who will not actually read the book.

  14. tricledrown 14

    ODT comments that John Key looking very bedraggled maybe pants on fire as well as nose out of place

    • Pasupial 14.1


      And this was in an article by business editor Dene Mackenzie, who is usually a Nat cheerleader:

      Mr Key did not look entirely at ease as he attempted small talk with a few of those attending before he was whisked to the front of the room and the lectern.

      After a perfunctory welcome, he rose to his feet and lectured the audience in a rapid-fire delivery which seemed at odds with his normal engaging style.

      It was a cold room and Mr Key failed to warm it up.


      Though this latest article is more more Mackenzie’s usual style:

      Prime Minister John Key believes an orchestrated campaign by left-wing activists led up to the release on Wednesday of Nicky Hager’s book… In contrast to claims in the book National wanted to reduce voter turnout, Mr Key told those attending an Otago Chamber of Commerce function to make sure they urged their friends to vote. He expressed concern voter numbers were falling and were possibly headed to a below 70% turnout from a turnout of more than 90% six elections ago.

  15. greywarbler 15

    Can people advise me on their methods of dealing with colds. I have had one all week, first water dripping from my nose, then gunge, then not much sore throat, and my nose cleared, but now a continual cough that is involuntary so I can’t help it.

    Good news is that I haven’t got sore chest muscles from it. But it won’t go away
    and I find myself unpleasant to be around and now have to go out and get more provisions.

    I thought of taking something each hour that would help. I’m keeping hydrated, I’m having Disprin, sucking Strepsils, have codral but that is not well regarded for hearts. But of Berocca vit c but don’t really like that coloured orange stuff, it looks too showy and bright to be good.

    Thought of getting Lemsip. What advice on fruits to add to the usual vit c mandarin orange. I suppose tomatoes would be good. What immune boosting vegs and fruit would be good? I have been having lime juice, or would lemon off my tree add more
    vit c?

    Advice?? I must shake this off. One whole week this virus has had and it’s just a cold. Yeah right!

    • Puckish Rogue 15.1

      Take a day off and stay in bed the whole day , don’t do anything work related (no checking emails or such like) and eat some large high fat meals (bacon and eggs in particular), works wonders for me

      Essentially your body is sick so you need to conserve as much energy as possible + get as much energy into your body as possible so your body can heal

    • joe90 15.2

      In our house tending to the lurgee involves an obsession with hand washing, honey for sore throats, lubricating with lots of hot fruit juice, lemon juice and honey, panadeine ( the codeine will help control your barking), vitamin C, eating if you’re hungry, staying warm, getting some sunlight and rest.

    • vto 15.3

      Best, once you think you’ve broken the back of it, is to swim or do something in the ocean. It will blast the remnants from your system, reinvigorate, and leave you feeling sparkly and new. Try it, it works. You may need a wetsuit depending on where you are – optional though.

    • Pasupial 15.4

      Get yourself a jar of crushed ginger and stir a teaspoon into your lemon-honey drinks (you can brew it up in a pot with sliced ginger, but that takes a while longer, though is pleasantly aromatic). Go out as little as possible as you won’t want to spread the illness. Catch up on reading or videos you’ve been meaning to watch – housework isn’t the best idea as you’ll just end up cleaning everything again after you’ve coughed around it.

      • greywarbler 15.4.1

        Right all. Ta very much. Anyone else that wants to add to the list feel welcome. I will get started and try most of these – the swimming I may leave for another couple of months. Interestingly two of us from this house went away and came back with colds. I went to see my grandchildren but will only do this in winter now when I am assured there are no colds in the house. It seems they have more sources of infection than me. I can’t take this each winter after visiting them.

        And I get the added cross of developing a herpes outbreak on my nose after this stress, if I don’t keep the ointment going all day until it passes. There is no need to spend lots of money exploring the wonders of outer space, when money could be better spent on exploring the wonders of these tiny invisible microbes that help us to live, and others that prey on us. I think I heard recently that half our bodyweight is bacteria. Perhaps WO has more than most, and that accounts for his largeish size. Getting philosophical here.

        • yeshe

          Buy some pure cinnamon oil at your local chemist … take two or three drops with some milk ( dairy or alternative, doesn’t matter — it’s just a carrier for the hot-flavour oil). Very old traditional remedy.

          Do this five or six times today and keep on it for a few days.

          It’s not unpleasant in the slightest and very effective and safe; and inexpensive.

          Actually, it’s the very best preventative if you think you are starting a cold or flu … usually then just need to take it three or four times until the symptoms disappear.

          If you are not taking Lysine for your herpes, start immediately .. take 800-1000mgs daily for a few days to build it up, and I suggest staying on a regular 500mgs dose daily … has been known to keep herpes away even for long-time sufferers.

          Hope you feel better soon. And maybe your local chemist might deliver these goodies for you ? Most will, if asked nicely !

        • Belladonna

          Sorry that you are unwell greywarbler. This may help, havent tried it myself as I am vegan and cant remember the last time I had a cold, probably 15-20 years ago but I have heard this recipe works well for colds, flu, sore throats, infections, coughs and as a general immune system strengthener.
          Nature’s Penicillin.
          1 grapefruit
          1 orange
          2 lemons
          3 cloves garlic
          1/2 large onion
          3 drops peppermint oil
          Wash fruit well. Cut fruit with skins on and peel onion and then cut into pieces. Blend all ingred except the peppermint oil with a little water to make the mixture blend. Blend well then add the peppermint oil and blend briefly.
          Adults have 1cup per day and a child 1/2c per day taking 1 tablespoon at a time throughout the day.
          Store in covered glass jar in the fridge. Warm slightly before taking it.

        • Rosie

          Nothing more that I can add Warbs, except to say that lots of rest, avoidance of annoying people that sap energy, plenty of panadeine, water, tea, vit c, warmth, comfort food and something funny to watch eventually work for me. (I have other health complications that extend the life of a virus).

          Take care and hope you feel well soon 🙂

      • yeshe 15.4.2

        yummy ! best with fresh ginger as no preservatives .. I drink this as my daily morning drink ! Very good as liver tonic also.

    • adam 15.5

      Try this, Call Healthline on 0800 611 116 for free advice from our trained registered nurses.

      And remember Nurses are awesome.

    • minarch 15.6

      Vaoprize some strong herb and relax !

  16. greywarbler 16

    Mike Field the Radionz Pacific correspondent had a memory this morning. It was 2006 and he was the only journo at the airport when Frank Bainimarama flew in. Field asked something like this ‘Are you going to stage a coup?” And Mr Bainimarama said “Yes, in two weeks.” However the appointed day for the coup was the date for an important rugby match there, so it was delayed till the next day.

    That’s the way to run a country. Farce.

  17. Pete 17

    I’m seeing a lot of unfamiliar handles in the comments feed. Election year mischief makers, or spermacetaceans spitting the dummy?

  18. TightyRighty 18

    All hager had done is publish a dead tree version of a blog. No evidence, just assertations. A journalist respected by the left does not make a respected journalist. A journalist hurling rumours, even if they are srs business coz of printing, is not doing the job of a journalist. It’s bullshit blog tactics

    [karol: this is off topic. There are other threads for discussing this.

    Moved from the Ede thread]

  19. Mr Calcified 19

    Judith, Joyces and Johns combined logic against Nicky Hager’s book “Dirty Politics”:

    1. Its a left smear campaign?
    2. The exchange of e-mails were stolen? Therefore they cant be true
    3. Other parties use bloggers?
    4. Its perfectly normal for parties to do this?
    5. Don’t mention the SIS
    6. John wont be taking action against Judith

    Conclusion: The Book is wrong, we have nothing to worry about, god is on our side

    Yup, Judith, John, Joyce you rock on, logic and evidence are your strong points.

    Too much casein calcifying the synapses I think!

  20. Wonderpup 20

    Why I am not putting “Dirty Politics” on the Pirate Bay.

    I acquired a copy of Dirty Politics today, through Amazon. I did did think of ripping the DRM off it, and popping a torrent up on pirate bay, but I’m not going to, for two reasons.

    1) I’d have to to find out how – I regularly rip DRM .azw off files (in fact, its automated every time I buy something off amazon), but that is simply because I don’t trust Amazon not to reach back and retract the stuff I have already bought. Its a matter of personal backup, rather than sharing. I don’t know, however, how to put a torrent up. I’m sure its not difficult, but I won’t.

    2) I want as many people as possible to pay for it, and Hager to get his share for all his hard work.

    Of course, that means Amazon gets its cut too, and I’m not the biggest fan of their corporate, anti-union practices. So, to go some way to ameliorate that I always use an affiliate link, so someone gets part of their cut. I don’t know of any local lefty affiliates (this site could use the cash, hint, hint) but I use the fantastic “Best of the Left” US podcast link to feed some cash back to a good cause.

    Go to http://www.bestoftheleft.com/ and use the affiliate link on the right.

    • nadis 20.1

      not quite sure what you mean by saying firstly:

      “I’d have to to find out how”

      and then:

      “I regularly rip DRM .azw off files”

      It’s not automated unless you use XXXXXXX to manage your books after installing “YYYYYYY”

      I’ve redacted those names because it is in fact a criminal offense in NZ to publish information that describes how to circumvent embedded DRM technology

      “It is an offence to import, sell, hire out, or advertise a TPM circumvention device (or provide information allowing TPM circumvention), in the course of business, where it is intended, or known to be likely, that the device or information will be used to infringe copyright.”

      (TPM = Technological Protection Measure)

      I think (not being a lawyer and relying on Google) that this is the Copyright act 1994 which tends to talk about music and software but not ebooks. Anyhoo, be careful as you have just admitted to a crime and don’t post details as publishing or referring to methods to beat encryption is illegal. Very draconian.

      But if you do convert your AZW to an epub, the fun thing to do would be to upload to Mega. Then you could argue you were actually helping to fund progressive causes.

      • Wonderpup 20.1.1

        Hi Nadis,

        Unfortunately your reply is technologically illiterate.

        • nadis


          You are the one who says “I automatically strip DRM” and “I’d have to find out how” in the same paragraph.

          Its not rocket science – 45 seconds of googling will provide you with all the info you need.

          • Wonderpup

            Oh, I’m sorry, I forgot to mention your little hypocrital tirade about IP, and then suggesting popping the work on Mega. Nice work there including dotcom. Maybe your Nat boss will throw in an extra fish into the whale pool for that.

            • nadis

              Well excuse me Anton. Perhaps my sense of humour is not working to the high level I usually personally over-estimate to.

              But you do come across like an angry school boy – I still can’t see where I am either being technologically illiterate or ranting about the Internet party? Or parroting lines for my Nat boss, or doing anything else which would be regarded as offensive by a sane leftie or a sane rightie (if either such thing exists of course).

              Lets do a deal – lets both get back to work, I’m self employed but you’re a public servant and should really not be reading blogs during work time.

              • Wonderpup

                But… can you name my dog? Huh? 🙂

                I’ve never really protected my ID because after 25 years working in IT I realise its all pretty public for anyone wanting to find out who I am. I’ve taken the line that if I write what I actually think then I’ll stand by it.

                Honestly, this attempt at ‘outing’ me is just creepy.

                • nadis

                  Hardly outing when you publicly display it when commenting. Good on you for that.

                  The real point though is why do you spew such invective at me when nothing you claim to be offended by is actually in my post?

      • felix 20.1.2

        Hi nadis,

        not quite sure what you mean by saying firstly:
        “I’d have to to find out how”
        and then:
        “I regularly rip DRM .azw off files”

        It’s a bit tricky, I know, but if you read all the way to the end of the paragraph and also learn what “however” means, you’ll be well on your way to figuring it out.

    • greywarbler 20.2

      I think the book launching was at Unity Books. That would be a start for getting hands on and spreading the moolah.

  21. Rosie 21

    Scene: Purchasing Dirty Politics by Nicky Hagar at a certain book store in Johnsonville (in the Ohariu electorate)

    Characters: me = R, shop assistant = SA.

    R: Thanks for reserving a copy for me. Are you getting many comments from customers about this book?

    SA: No

    R: Oh, there’s been a lot of interest in it elsewhere.

    SA: I guess it’s already been said on talkback, there’s not much else to say.

    R: Oh really? What are people saying?

    SA: Thats it’s nothing we don’t already know about.(perceive a slight stiffening in the body)

    R: Oh, I’m surprised that, that many people have had an opportunity to read the book cover to cover since the book has only been out for two days and that they’ve had time to draw a conclusion based on the information in the book (sarc with a sweet smile)

    SA: Well it was the woman who hosts the show between 5 – 7. She has read it, and said all that’s already known about and its nothing new. (Tightening of the lips, a slight jutting out of the jaw).It’s only a little book you know. Fans the pages with her thumb.

    R: Oh, well thats not what I’ve heard. Still will be very interesting to read the bit about Peter Dunne and the undeclared tobacco donations. Very important for us here in Ohariu to know about don’t you think?

    SA: Doesn’t answer. Appears quite flustered and drops the book on the floor as she rapidly uses three pieces of sellotape to fasten the paper bag containing the book.

    R: Well thanks again for holding me a copy. Have a good day!

    Soooo much more I could have said but I didn’t want to cause her any more stress than I already was. It was the funniest book purchase I’ve made. There appears to be some folk who are very upset about a book that they haven’t even read.

    • Peter Matthews 21.1

      How about next time you buy a book, just buy the thing and leave instead of trying to start an argument with a poor shop assistant?

      • Rosie 21.1.1

        Relax Peter. I wasn’t picking a fight, and I was genuinely interested to find out what level of interest had been shown in the book. It’s a valid enquiry. It was all very friendly from my side of things. “Poor shop assistant” is a bit presumptuous, you don’t know much power this woman wields outside of her work role. She could be capable of anything

        . I’m a shop girl from way back. I can tell you I am a dream of a customer compared to some of the crazies I’ve dealt with over the years. That’s why I always act respectfully as a customer, because I know what it’s like on the other side of the counter.

        So, how about next time, you don’t tell me what to do.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Well done for putting her in her place

          • minarch

            you sound like your starting to hit some holes in your training,

            or your talking points aren’t showing up daily any more so your just winging it since your on the clock and should be seen to be doing something !

            Im imagining your supervisor/handler is a very busy man at the moment and your not getting the support you would usually get, your a bit of a rookie really arent you PR ?

            • Puckish Rogue

              Gasp I’ve been found out….I must now leave and never be heard from again as I have brought great shame on my masters

              • minarch

                I can see youve been clocking up some serious hours, maybe worried about where your next paycheck is coming from ?

                or maybe your just taking advantage of the situation to get some overtime in ?

                Everybody has to pay the rent/mortgage though am I right ?

                dont go though , or they might replace you with someone experianced/talented.

              • minarch

                “I have brought great shame on my masters”

                I doubt you really care about this bit, I mean no body REALLY likes their boss do they ?

          • greywarbler

            Who what? In what place. Why don’t you go to bed you twisted old coot and get your afternoon nap.? Need for rest could be the reason you are so pernickety. Or you have attention deficit disorder.

      • greywarbler 21.1.2

        @Peter M 2.38
        It is called a short discussion not an argument. And carried out in an attempt to gauge public reaction.

        Some people are interested in what other ordinary people think but you are no doubt at a higher level and prefer the distant approach. All those people doing those funny little jobs out there are real people you know. We aren’t advanced enough to have replaced them with automatons operated by wifi.

    • Karen 21.2

      I went into the Auckland branch of Unity Books late morning to pick up my copy and joined a queue of people doing the same. On the way, I’d noticed Whicoulls had the Key book in a display next to the “Dirty Politics” book. An hour later when I went past the John Key pile appeared untouched but all of Nicky Hager’s had gone.

    • bad politics 21.3

      I know someone who works for a big book chain & they have been told they are not allowed to talk about the book to anyone (I presume just in work time). & apparently John Campbell was snuffling around the book chain shop in CHCH.

      (moderators, i have good reasons to change my handle, thank you.)

      • Rosie 21.3.1

        Interesting comment bad politics. I wonder if that directive came form the owner operator/manager of that particular store or the head office.

        Usually in a workplace where there is a good degree of trust between the employee and employer the employer will accept that workers will apply the appropriate level of discretion when engaging with customers if there is anything potentially controversial about the nature of the product they are selling.

        In a chain store situation that sense of trust may be dissolved due to the large number of employee’s and the loss of opportunity to develop good working relationships and they may feel compelled to tell them how to behave with their customers. If I were in the position of your friend I would feel quite insulted that they didn’t trust my professionalism and discretion.

        A bit neurotic of the employer to give that instruction too.

  22. joe90 22

    The sewer getting into the swing of things with hints and suggestions.

  23. yeshe 23

    Fwiw, I think TVNZ news is censored. Right now online there is no mention anywhere of Dirty Politics, save a grubby little poll, way, way down the pages, as to whether one might read it or not. Hate to say it is huge % in the negative .. but that could be rigged also.

    TV3 by comparison reports fully on the furore raging around it.

    • minarch 23.1

      ” but that could be rigged also”


      Rigging Time’s Person of the Year poll? All in a day’s twerk

      “it was about 9:30pm Monday and Gains and Marek were already pounding away at their keyboards. Coding in C# (Gains) and Ruby (Marek), each of them was working on a script, a piece of software that automated the process of casting votes by working around Twitter and Facebook’s authentication. By plugging a person’s Facebook ID number (which is public) into their scripts, the duo discovered a sizeable loophole in Poptip’s service: They could vote on behalf of that person without them knowing.”

  24. The Lone Haranguer 24

    I read with dismay that Labour has announced that if elected the Local Bodies can introduce regional fuel taxes.

    As a proud petrolhead, I wonder why anyone would be dopey enough to let local councils tax the fuel in their areas. The poor mugs up the Kaipara must be wondering how much extra per litre they will pay to fund their flash waste water system that was forced upon them.

    My take is its a lazy and dopey idea.

    But feel free to disagree, and if its a great idea, why stop there?

    Why not let the Councils also levy their ratepayers based on power usage (get those buggers in their Prius I say) or put a levy onto fast foods or a levy onto beer sold in their area or even a fat tax?

    Heck The Kaipara could have its own Harbour bridge in no time flat – if anyone up their actually was paying their rates and Labours new “local body taxes”

    • lprent 24.1

      I read with dismay that Labour has announced that if elected the Local Bodies can introduce regional fuel taxes.

      You should probably have read further. Most of your examples are for invalid purposes. It is only for transport. Moreover I suspect you will find that it has be be voted into place.

      Perhaps you should stop stroking your brain and use the other one that is currently short of blood?

      • The Lone Haranguer 24.1.1

        I guess Im no fan of letting local bodies tax beyond their rate takes. What starts out a transport only, has the ability to be the thin end of the wedge.

        It seems to me since Councils were extended the right to spend as they saw fit (about a generation ago) that there have been some great ideas (the New Plymouth walkway comes to mind) and some pretty dopey ones (promoting soccer matches lways ends in tears) and some out of control ones (The Kaipara waste water scheme)

        Parliament seems to have a whole bunch more checks and balances than local government.

        • Molly

          The Kaipara waste water scheme was implemented in total contradiction of local government laws and checks. As such it is not a good example of legislation badly written – it is an example of legislation not being followed.

          Joel Cayford’s blog – Reflections on Auckland planning has a vast amount of information on this topic. His experience as a councillor and planner, and his interest as a Kaipara property owner means he has kept a close eye on proceedings in the last few years.

      • nadis 24.1.2

        “Perhaps you should stop stroking your brain and use the other one that is currently short of blood?”

        What? What are you encouraging him to do?

  25. Blevins 25

    I wonder if I am the only person here to note that the John Armstrong herald article “Hager’s claims light a fuse under the State of Key” seems to have had it’s comments frozen at 261 exactly?


    The last comment was at 3:50pm yesterday by “bellbird”. This seems a bit strange…maybe I missed some type of notification for all comments being closed now because I use a selective javascript blocker (noscript) and forgot to allow the right server.

    On a side note it is interesting to click the sort by button and drop down box selector onto “most liked”, as it would seem that the vast amount of public opinion is as outraged over the revelations as elsewhere on and offline, leaving aside the seemingly bought and paid for public-private-partnerships known as tvnz and radionz.

    Also has anyone else noticed how you can triple like a comment in the heralds comment system with 3 very rapid clicks in quick succession? This results in 3 thumbs up icons as the result. It’s hardly democratic javascript coding, to have this hidden feature.

    If they removed the ‘feature’ it might result in more accuracy than typical political polls, we see echoed in all mainstream media. lol.

    • Molly 25.1

      Discovered the multi-click thumbs up last week. Have guiltily and happily used it since.

  26. joe90 27

    Josie Pagani names names – 11:50.

    [audio src="http://arntrnassets.mediaspanonline.com/radio/n00/1494551/Friday-Forum-pt-1-August-15th-2014.mp3" /]

    [lprent: I have no ability to play audio from the web here. I’ll have a look when I get home.

    However since she really has no way of knowing that information that I know of, I suspect it will simply be either public information, regurgitation of bullshit from whaleoil, or simply a attack on people she considers to be political enemies.

    Most people here probably won’t comment because they have no idea either. ]

    • Ant 27.1

      Good on Josie doing the job of the right since ages ago.

    • Bob 27.2

      Wow, surprised that hasn’t caused more of a stir on here!

      • McFlock 27.2.1

        even if those names were correct, are they being paid to blog here?
        Are they being hand-fed OIA request wording and attack lines?
        Are they harrassing employers and clients of their political opponents?


        piss off, then.

        • Bob

          “even if those names were correct, are they being paid to blog here?”
          Doesn’t sound like it, but if they are employees in David Cunliffe’s office then they are tax payer funded, sort of like Ede….

          “Are they being hand-fed OIA request wording and attack lines?”
          No, I can’t think of anyone being hand fed OIA requests on any blog sites so that is a strange thing to say. Oh! I get it, you are fuelling unsubstantiated innuendo…good one.

          “Are they harassing employers and clients of their political opponents?”
          Don’t know, are they blogging under their own name? Are they using pseudonyms? Are they feeding information to other bloggers on the site? I should hack a server and write a book!

          I was simply stating that I would have expected a reply dismissing Josie’s claims, but it looks like it has hit a nerve aye McFlock.

          • Ant

            It hasn’t caused a stir because her list is from Failoil’s Greatest Hits: name for name.


            • lprent

              Oh did she have that r0b was Rob Salmond? That was one that was an epic fail by Cameron Slater after he confidentially said he knew for certain that was who it was. Of course Anthony Robins outed himself a few years later…. 😈

              • Lanthanide

                Neil Jones, Rob Egan, Clint Smith.

                • karol

                  God, Pagani does talk a load of drivel. I’ve never heard of two of the guys she named. Clint Smith I’ve heard of. Do they all still blog here?

                  I thought Clint Smith was with the Greens.

    • weka 27.3

      Joe can you please link to the website direct? I have no idea even what radio station that is, and to listen I need to download first, not live stream. If it’s RNZ, then all their audio has a Share link that gives people a choice about how they listen.

      • felix 27.3.1

        Not sure where it’s from but that player seems to be what wordpress inserts when someone posts the raw url of a .mp3 file.

        If we use the same url from the page source and link to it as text instead perhaps that will give you a link you can right click and download.

        edit ok so even as a text link it still inserts the player. Perhaps if I post a broken link you can fix it by pasting into a new tab and adding .mp3 to the end


        Any use?

        • weka

          Interesting, I didn’t realise wp did that. I don’t think I can download an mp3 URL (on a mac), only play it. I need the link on the original page I think.

          I ended up listening to the small bit Joe was referring to. It just means that if I want to listen to audio again I have to use more data (small data limit), so prefer to download. Sometimes my connection is so slow that download and listen is better than stream too.


          • felix

            I think it’s a wp plugin. If so, maybe Lynn could look at disabling it.

            I agree it’s better to have the file and be able to choose what to do with it.

    • just saying 27.4

      Listening to Josie Pagani makes me feel like giving up on politics. Which would make her happy I guess. First I feel furious, then I just feel the hopelessness of even trying.

      Why doesn’t the Labour Party stop her from commentating as a member of the party? Even the right wing of the party must see the harm she is doing. Defending Cam Slater for fucks sake. Her stupidity is breathtaking.

      • Draco T Bastard 27.4.1

        Why doesn’t the Labour Party stop her from commentating as a member of the party?

        They can’t and they shouldn’t be able to. They can, and should ensure that everyone knows that she’s not speaking for them.

    • adam 27.5

      Josie Pagani, another example of a member of the liberal elite who don’t fear the working class.

    • Murray Olsen 27.6

      She sounds like some ACT fool. She says the same sort of crap as any brain damaged drunk at the Northern Club. Right wing idiot.

      She says Cunliffe has a couple of Standard bloggers working in his office. Well, so fucking what? Is he giving them tips about SIS information? Just a guess here, but I’d say no.

  27. yeshe 28

    Toby Manhire nails it .. and of course, the Herald closes all comments …


    (or in the same line as his brilliant writing, maybe should we call him Tibby Manhore ?? :grin:)

  28. Once Was Tim 30

    Jum Mora is about to PROVE he’s fair and balanced. The Panel is stacked with Peter Elliot and a couple of other kinsprissy theirists, sss, sss,ss! loik Geary Kormuk en some otha non-entitty
    Fear n belinsed Raydyo NewZillun with Jum. Follow him on twitter, follow his laugh on air and on line, follow him as you drive in “Drive Time” from RNZ neshnool.
    Media you ken truss!

  29. Fear all 31

    Of course it will never be like 1984 again where we have a shift of power from the war generation to the baby boomers and we wont have a revolution like the rest of the third world because we have his highness the Prince of Parnell to rule without democracy to worry about
    Lets get rid of these twerps so that some credibility can come back to NZ in the form of those with more between their ears than the crap we seen and heard for the last 6 yrs
    You would never want to employ these dodgy bastards would you?

    • greywarbler 31.1

      Fear all 6.17
      ‘those with more between their ears than the crap we seen and heard for the last 6 yrs
      You would never want to employ these dodgy bastards would you?’

      Listening to Bill Ralston this morning. He is one of a clique of smug types joined at the hip who seem to be the high court of NZ radio. And they choose themselves.

  30. With regards to dirty politics and cam’s reaction to it, I read he was boasting about when he got hacked and had his emails stolen, how quick he was is getting the firewall back up so they only got away with 10 or 20%

    Given the gravity of situation with these scandalous revelations, how come there hasn’t been a dawn raid at slater’s house with helicopters landing on his front lawn yet?
    If this 20% is so revealing, what’s in the other 80% we don’t know about?

    If the police won’t do it, maybe the spooks will step in and seize the equipment for the upcoming trials, for sake of the nation, though with the spy boss a best buddy of the main man, I’d wager those hard drives will disappear faster than a spy cctv camera.

    • The Al1en 32.1

      In a Flemming style saga of intrigue and mysterious goings on, the Snowden files released any time soon could be a clincher and sink the blue battleship.
      Wonder if that’s what Kim has planned at his week out from the election meet up?

      • Anne 32.1.1

        I was wondering about the anonymous hacker/hackers Al1en. Nobody, including Hager (at least that’s my understanding) knows who the person/persons were, and I suspect he/we will never know. But they were clearly very professional…. 🙂

  31. Te Reo Putake 33

    Looking forward to the Nation tomorrow morning. The panel features Patrick Gower, Matthew Hooton and Josie Pagani. No lefties were available, apparently.

    Why is she in the NZ Labour party? Anyone know?

    • felix 33.1

      Would be cheaper for tv3 to get a balloon and write on it “I agree with Matthew”

      • just saying 33.1.1

        Frankly it would be more fair and balanced if they did use a balloon.
        It’s not just that she is right-wing, she is a friend and defender of Cameron Slater.
        Labour Head Office needs to take action on this.

    • just saying 33.2
      1. Because it’s easier to get selected as a candidate in Labour than in National
      2. She really wants to believe she is left-wing because she can’t admit to herself who she actually is.
        (For most people being friends with Cam Slater would provide a big clue)
      • weka 33.2.1
        1. her middle class sensibilities are better served by a centre right Labour than a left one.
        2. she’s got some level of power and control in Labour circles and it’s too late to start again in National.
        3. there’s not really much difference between Nat lite and Labour lite, but as js points out, being Labour lite allows oneself to feel better about oneself.
    • greywarbler 33.3

      @ Te reo putake 7.34
      There is a nice tuffet there with her name on it – Josie Muffett.

    • David H 33.4

      Everyone just E=Mail them and say that she has nothing to do with the Labour Party, At ALL.

    • Anne 33.5

      I bet Pagani was only a paid up member while she used Labour to try and get into parliament. Her husband of course will no longer be a member so I would be most surprised if she is still involved. Has anyone ever seen her at an Annual or Regional conference in recent years?

      • just saying 33.5.1

        I feel really strongly about this. I’m about a third of the way through the book. The behaviour described is terrorism. The Labour Party needs to make it clear that Josie Pagani is not representing the party. Unless she is, in which case we should all find something better to do with our time because there is absolutley no point.

        • Anne

          The Labour Party needs to make it clear that Josie Pagani is not representing the party.

          That was my thoughts too but they won’t. On her most recent appearances on Q+A she did nothing but run the Labour Party down. Sometimes I wish I could bang a few senior Labour heads together because they let the Paganis of this world get away with it.

          • Colonial Viper

            It’ll be happening, sooner or later.

          • Puddleglum

            Josie Pagani was also running down Labour constantly with her incoherent analyses on the radio link that joe90 put up. Some radio station or other.

            One of the blokes on it praised Hoskings’ ‘interview’ of Joyce and Hager with words to the effect that it was brilliant television and that Hoskings really dissected Hager – God knows what distorting ideological lens he must have been looking through to come to that conclusion.

            I may have my own ideological preferences but, honestly, I hope I never become that self-delusional. The ‘interview’ was thoroughly incompetent and riven with illogicality.

            • Colonial Viper

              Josie Pagani and her husband love cosying up to the fancy corporate crowd. They must be a bit slow politically, because that’s not Labour.

        • Murray Olsen

          There is a point, js. Both the Greens and Mana are growing. If the Labour that won’t say anything about Pagani were the only electoral option, I’d agree with you.

  32. appleboy 34

    Need some advice

    I am thinking of laying a complaint over Jordan William’s behaviour as outlined in Dirty Politics – – his altering Wiki references on labour MP’s – am working my way through and believe there’s more – would a complaint to the Law Society on ethics/bringing the profession into disrepute be a way to go?

    The utter hypocrisy of this creep in setting himself up as non political with his “Taxpayer’s Union” – I want to shame the creep

    Welcome any ideas on how best to bring his dark festering actions into the limelight

    • small thing 34.1

      Yeah heard that pos on the radio the other day trying to convince people of his validity, good luck

    • vto 34.2

      try the Fair Trading Act.

      It applies to everyone in life except those in politics. It has been long known as the easiest and most secure way of securing a ding on the dong. Used to be sections 9 and 10 – misleading and deceptive conduct in trade.

      There is a looming amendment to the Act when the Vote Them Out Party gets into government whereby it is extended to other more important aspects of life. It will become the Fair Trading (in Politics) Act. Any misleading or deceptive conduct in politics breaches and is liable to the same criminal prosecution.

  33. small thing 35

    As Key stated this week when interviewed this has been a week of allegations and action taken which he believes are part of a smear campaign
    If he wasnt so convinced by the perceived divinity of the polls he mite want to take a look at what hes done to the country in his 2 terms that has brought about the actions of the various people who have chosen to inform the country of this govt actions which are really straight out of the 50s in reinforcing the archaic ignorant tory born to rule mentality which chooses to go out of its way to destroy the democratic principles which if the people of this were better informed would find that party politics has very little to do with progressing the country on a fair and open basis and that our parliamentary system is in dire need of a major overhaul because no party should be allowed to do what this govt has done to increase the loss of democratic rights, sovereignty,control of its economy and the growing gap between rich and poor.
    I only hope that most of this shit sticks all over Key

  34. BLiP 36

    Heh! “Mike Hoskin” finally tells us the truth about what he really things of Nicky Hager.

    • Murray Olsen 36.1

      I loved that. Maybe we’ll get more of it when “journalists” realise they don’t have to be scared of Seaslug any more. It looks to me that he’ll be hung out to dry, possibly with one or two others. Key will try to stop it before anyone in Parliament has to suffer. It’s up to all of us to not let him.

  35. Northshoreguynz 37

    You might not always agree with Danyl, but he’s on the money here.

    Not just words are required, but action.

  36. North 38

    Pauline Henry Show tonight – coupla pissed aging yuppies wanking hard – Janet Wilson (actually really nice person ‘in-person’ and away from narcissistic hubby and equally so others), and ‘Pryce’ Edwards. Such players.

    WTF has New Zealand political ‘commentary’ rave come to ? Don’t go on Pauline Janet.

    Still, s’pose it pays this month’s lease on Billy’s BM’.

    • felix 38.1

      Why “Pauline”?

      It seems like you are making fun of him by pretending he’s a woman.

      That is incredibly offensive, North.

      • greywarbler 38.1.1

        @ North 11.06
        Yes just restrain yourself – you can write good put downs without overhyping it with feminising jokes. Paul is a funny enough man just as he is. And there is sufficient raw material to be worked with.

        Janet Wilson can’t be a nice woman, she is married to Bill Ralston, she earns her own goodly sum, shares his and their life style and the mindset that goes with it. The saying applies that the wealthy can be very charming, if it doesn’t cost them anything.

        They probably wouldn’t consider themselves wealthy but they are on that moving pathway to enduring comfort, and good living, and fully expect to reach the end to where they will watch the view from their patio as the sun goes down over the sea.

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