Open mike 15/10/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 15th, 2012 - 86 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

86 comments on “Open mike 15/10/2012 ”

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  1. tc 1
    15 October 2012 at 7:41 am

    Heard our whining PM this morning say after a month he thought the KD issue would have died down….you listening out there MSM lackeys, dadddy’s not happy and wants the noise from the rumpus room to quiet down.

    • freedom 1.1
      15 October 2012 at 8:53 am

      I heard many comments the last few weeks, from various mouthpieces, on how the Public are over the Kim DotCom story.

      Thats’s funny as whenever it was even partially referenced in a conversation every person present leaped into passionate discussion on a whole range of topics. I have never seen greater political interest shown from what were in general not politically interested people.

      This is endemic of the reason for the bleatings trying to dissuade the MSM from continuing the story.

      Sheeple arw awakening and we all know there is nothing more dangerous than a clever sheep

      • ianmac 1.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 10:01 am

        We had a ram lamb who thought he was a dog, which confused the local sheep dogs mightily. So perhaps the MSM sheeps might learn a thing or two from our Rambo. Maybe.

      • Treetop 1.1.2
        15 October 2012 at 5:34 pm

        I’m not over the Kim Dotcom story because I think that Key has abused his access to secret information in order to conceal his knowledge of Dotcom prior to 19 January 2012. If Key had info to prove that Shearer’s allegations (Key in GCSB cafeteria mentioning Dotcom) did not occur Key would get GCSB to release this.

        Why?

        Because it would then get Shearer off Key’s back.

        A person has the right to defend their self, but when they are in a position to do this secretly and manipulatively this is not defending yourself, as someone else knows about the corruption and I think it is their duty to EXPOSE it.

        Who does the GCSB go to when they are having a problem with the PM?

      • Paul 1.1.3
        15 October 2012 at 7:23 pm

        Over a story regarding national security and sovereignty that has yet to be explained?

    • Murray Olsen 1.2
      15 October 2012 at 1:44 pm

      I don’t think the story will die, because kiwis don’t like having it shoved in our faces that we are not a sovereign nation. With a bit of luck, people will link it to the TPPA surrender negotiations and the rewriting of industrial relations law by Warner Bros as well. I suspect Key, as a man with much property but no country, has no instinctual understanding of this.

  2. freedom 2
    15 October 2012 at 7:50 am

    At the conclusion of the TV One weekly spin session there was a wide return shot where you saw [the PM’s hand ?] reach in and pick up the papers the presenter had been reading questions off. sloppy spinmeisters

    • tc 2.1
      15 October 2012 at 10:25 am

      Probably hadn’t even bothered to rehearse his answers he’s become so distanced he’s not even putting in a credible shift for the MSM on the smile and wave agenda.

      Shonkey’s people are like junkyard dogs with any media situations, even the womens mag’s have to run the gauntlet of spin doctors and pages of ‘no go’ areas when Bronagh and Sideshow do the’ look what a great family guy the PM is’ routine just in case the facade comes off.

    • Vicky32 2.2
      15 October 2012 at 7:05 pm

      where you saw [the PM’s hand ?] reach in and pick up the papers the presenter had been reading questions off.

      Wow, really? Just wow…

  3. Jokerman 3
    15 October 2012 at 8:51 am

    I enjoy reading your work freedom
    yet,
    we all have our own cross to bear;

    For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, people, that our forebearers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink;

    Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

    “Everything is permissible”- but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible-but not everything is constructive.

    -To the Corinthian Pillars

    • freedom 3.1
      15 October 2012 at 9:08 am

      guessing you didn’t like my reference to the PM’s manipulation of the message?
      I realise it is a bit trite in the wider scheme of things

      or is it a glass houses and geology thing?

  4. Red Rosa 4
    15 October 2012 at 9:30 am

    If this was 1 April, I’d be laughing.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10840408

    but it seems not.

    The Tree Nazis, the Green Gestapo.. is there a minister in charge of all this? Have the GCSB been coaching the MPI? Or does NAT now equal LOL?

    Should be an entertaining week.

    • deuto 4.1
      15 October 2012 at 10:05 am

      My reaction and questions also, Red Rosa.
      Popped a link to it on yesterday’s Open Mike at 8 and there are a couple of responses there.

      Really want to hear more, but suspect that it will be overlooked with today’s MSD privacy issues.

    • Dr Terry 4.2
      15 October 2012 at 10:32 am

      RR. Every week starts out as “entertaining”, but that is, regrettably, about as far as anything goes.

    • weka 4.3
      15 October 2012 at 6:12 pm

      Jeeze, when did the Ministry of Primary Industries come into being?

  5. Jokerman 5
    15 October 2012 at 9:47 am

    When the policy changes-
    Whenever the policy changes
    You would see People covered by sweat
    A 15-year-old girl offering herself in a deserted alley
    Prisons mushroom all over the place
    Aged mothers bent carrying hawking goods
    Children talking back to father
    Wife swearing back to husband
    Dishonesties, and lies filling the Party newspaper
    Whenever the policy changes
    Nobody cares to teach POETRY MUSIC ART
    But busy to teach people how to kill
    To teach people how to make fox holes and trenches
    A country full of hatred, impoverished by war
    Surrounded by cheating and dishonesty
    Whenever the policy changes
    Land, rice paddy pushed into co-ops
    Harvest time so quiet without the folk songs
    peasants with faces as green as the rice plant
    Burdened down with a hundred kinds of taxes
    Personal tax, market tax etc, etc…
    Damn city cluttered up with litter
    Houses so noisy with laughter, crying and arguments
    And smiles lingering with sorrow
    Whenever the policy changes
    You could see quite a lot of people spying on you
    Quite a lot of guns pushing down the pens
    Lets write about the future
    Don’t bother about the time being
    No matter what kind of life we are living now

    -Doan Van Minh

    (guess it Is a fallacy that givin enough time a Monkey could tap out a couplet,even, of Shakespeare)

    Of three or four in a room
    there is always one who stands besides the window
    He must see the evil among thorns
    and the fires on the hill.
    And how people who went out of their houses whole
    are given back in the evening like small change.
    Of three or four in a room
    there is always one who stands besides the window,
    his dark hair above his thoughts.
    behind him, words.
    And in front of him, voices wandering without a knapsack,
    hearts without provisions, prophecies without water,
    large stones that have been returned
    and stay sealed, like letters that have no
    address and no one to receive them

    -Yehuda Amichai

    give me freedom…

    (i’m not lookin’ for a New England..)

  6. captain hook 6
    15 October 2012 at 9:56 am

    when the mode of the music changes,
    then the walls of the city will fall.
    the Fugs.

  7. Penny Bright 7
    15 October 2012 at 10:28 am

    Today, 15 October 2012, is the first ‘anniversary’ of the occupation of Aotea Square, by Occupy Auckland.

    A protest has been organised outside Aotea Square, from 12 noon till 5.30pm to help expose how Auckland Council is serving the interests of the corporate 1%.

    An ‘Open Letter’ calling for the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the allegedly corrupt ‘conflict of interest’ of the CEO of Auckland Council, Doug McKay, who is also a member of the extremely powerful private lobby group – the Committee For Auckland, will be available for concerned citizens to sign.

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    Auckland Council ‘books’ are NOT ‘open’.

    Although rates keep going up – citizens and ratepayers in the Auckland region do NOT know exactly where public monies are being spent. A Local Government Official Information Act reply from Auckland Council dated 21 November 2011, from Darryl Griffin, confirms the lack of transparency in the spending of public monies by Auckland Council, in refusing to make available for public scrutiny the ‘devilish detail’ ie: the names, the scope, term and value of 5000 contracts related to 12,500 suppliers contracted to Auckland Council, on the basis that ‘To collate and publish these would be a major exercise logistically and cost-wise’.

    How many Auckland Council and Auckland Council Controlled Organisation (CCO) contracts are going to member companies of the Committee For Auckland?

    The CEO of Auckland Council, Doug McKay, has a statutory duty to ensure that there are systems in place to enable accurate reporting of ‘financial performance’.

    How is Doug McKay ‘fit for duty’?

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171859.html

    42Chief executive

    (1)A local authority must, in accordance with clauses 33 and 34 of Schedule 7, appoint a chief executive.
    (2)A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for—

    (c)ensuring that all responsibilities, duties, and powers delegated to him or her or to any person employed by the local authority, or imposed or conferred by an Act, regulation, or bylaw, are properly performed or exercised; and

    (d)ensuring the effective and efficient management of the activities of the local authority; and

    (e)maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority; and

    This protest has been called by James Heremaia, Jax Taylor and Penny Bright, who were all active in the Occupy Auckland movement, and are continuing the fight for genuinely ‘open, transparent and accountable’ New Zealand local and central government and judiciary.

    Support for the principle of a draft ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’ was endorsed at the Occupy Auckland General Assembly held on 1 February 2012.

    OCCUPY AUCKLAND (General Assembly 1/2/2012) SUPPORTS THE PRINCIPLE OF A DRAFT ACTION PLAN TO PREVENT CORRUPTION – ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIME & ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ IN NEW ZEALAND [DRAFT DISCUSSION DOCUMENT ONLY]
    1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

    3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level.

    4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).
    5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

    7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

    9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

    10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.
    11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

    12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

    13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

    15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

    16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

    17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

    18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

    [Feedback to Occupy Auckland can be sent c/- Penny Bright waterpressure@gmail.com to assist further debate/discussion/workshopping ]

  8. Jokerman 8
    15 October 2012 at 10:39 am

    Once the bed is set in motion, it vibrates down and from side to side…the HARROW is the actual instrument for the execution of the sentence…you’ll get the picture very shortly…

    alternating current / direct current, aside
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOSt4C_xqg
    many of us lie in the gutter, many reach for the stars
    (yes, of course I am a sinner, been one of the greatest, everyone knows that)

  9. Penny Bright 9
    15 October 2012 at 11:35 am

    Signatures for the following letter will be collected outside Aotea Square, Auckland City TODAY – 15 October 2012:

    “OPEN LETTER TO THE OFFICE OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL

    Under s.18 of the Public Audit Act 2001, we the undersigned request that you please conduct an urgent investigation into the following matters:

    1) The allegedly corrupt ‘conflict of interest’ of the CEO of Auckland Council, Doug McKay, who is also a member of the extremely powerful private lobby group – the Committee for Auckland.

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    2) Please investigate how many contracts have been awarded by Auckland Council and/or any of the following Auckland Council Controlled Organisations to member companies of the Committee for Auckland:

    a) Watercare Services Ltd
    b) Auckland Transport
    c) ATEED (Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development Ltd)
    d) ACIL (Auckland Council Investment Ltd)
    e) AWDA (Auckland Waterfront Development Agency Ltd)
    f) RFA (Regional Facilities Auckland)
    g) APL (Auckland Property Ltd)

    3) Please investigate the following potential ‘conflicts of interest’:

    a) The CEO of Watercare Services Ltd, is Committee for Auckland member – Mark Ford.

    b) The Chair of the Board of ATEED – David McConnell, and Deputy Chair Norm Thompson are both members of the Committee For Auckland.

    c) Directors on the Board of ACIL, Pauline Winter and Brian Corban are both members of the Committee for Auckland.

    d) Director Evan Davies and CEO John Dalzell of AWDA, are both members of the Committee for Auckland.

    e) Deputy Chair Dame Jenny Gibbs, and CEO Robert Domm of RFA, are both members of the Committee for Auckland.

    4) Please also investigate the failure of Auckland Council to ensure that CEO Doug McKay carry out his statutory duties under s.42 (2) (e) of the Local Government Act 2002:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171859.html
    42Chief executive

    (2)A chief executive appointed under subsection (1) is responsible to his or her local authority for—

    (c)ensuring that all responsibilities, duties, and powers delegated to him or her or to any person employed by the local authority, or imposed or conferred by an Act, regulation, or bylaw, are properly performed or exercised; and

    (d)ensuring the effective and efficient management of the activities of the local authority; and

    (e)maintaining systems to enable effective planning and accurate reporting of the financial and service performance of the local authority;

    A Local Government Official Information Act reply from Auckland Council dated 21 November 2011, from Darryl Griffin, (Auckland Council Manager for Democracy Services), confirms the lack of transparency in the spending of public monies by Auckland Council, in refusing to make available for public scrutiny the ‘devilish detail’ ie: the names, the scope, term and value of 5000 contracts related to 12,500 suppliers contracted to Auckland Council, on the basis that:

    ‘To collate and publish these would be a major exercise logistically and cost-wise’.

    Further evidence to support this request for an urgent inquiry is:

    A) The LGOIMA reply from Wendy Brandon, General Counsel for Auckland Council, dated 10 February 2012 – re: Committee for Auckland – CE membership.

    B) The LGOIMA reply from Wendy Brandon, General Counsel for Auckland Council, dated 14 March 2012 – re: Register of Interests and contracts.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    Appellant – Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal (CIV- 2011 – 404 – 8284)

    • muzza 9.1
      15 October 2012 at 2:33 pm

      Hi Penny, some weeks back you posted about a conflict of interest with the purchase of ASB building – Do you still have those details?

      • Penny Bright 9.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 6:28 pm

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10816011

        Council eyes $122m ASB tower for new HQ
        By Anne Gibson
        5:30 AM Thursday Jun 28, 2012
        t

        The ASB Bank Centre in Albert St provides 33,443sq m. Photo / Natalie Slade
        The Auckland Council plans to buy new upmarket headquarters so it can quit a civic high-rise block tentatively earmarked for demolition.

        The council has entered private negotiations to buy the ASB Bank Centre, valued by an Australian institutional fund at $112 million, substantially upgrading it for its staff and housing many of them under one roof.

        “ASB Bank Centre, 135 Albert St.
        Valued at $112 million, owned by Brookfield Multiplex
        31 levels with extensive carparking.”
        _______________________________________________________________

        EXECUTIVE TEAM OF AUCKLAND COUNCIL PROPERTY LTD

        http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/ABOUTCOUNCIL/REPRESENTATIVESBODIES/CCO/Pages/council_property.aspx

        “Peter George Wall
        BCA – Bachelor of Commerce and Administration
        ACA – Associate Chartered Accountant

        Peter has enjoyed over 30 years in the Property industry participating in development, investment management and the acquisition and disposal of some $1.2 billion of Property assets. He has held CEO roles in public property companies, operated in UK, France and Canada and for 3 years
        was Managing Director, Property for Brookfield Multiplex in NZ and he continues to provide consulting services to this company.

        Peter is a past National President of the Property Council in NZ, President and Trustee of the North Harbour Charitable Trust, Trustee of the Graeme Dingle Foundation trust and Chair of the Harbour Access Trust which has as its responsibilities the development of the National Ocean Water Sports Centre at Takapuna and ferry services to Takapuna and Browns Bay.”

        http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/886938

        _____________________________________________________________________

        Cheers!

        Penny Bright

        ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

        http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

        BROOKFIELD MULTIPLEX CONSTRUCTIONS (NZ) LIMITED (886938)
        To maintain this company log on here
        View previous names
        Last updated on 14 Dec 2011
        Certificate of Incorporation Company ExtractAll Company Details Print
        Company SummaryAddressesDirectors (2)Shareholdings (1)Documents (81)PPSR Search
        Company number:886938
        Incorporation Date:17 Dec 1997
        Company Status:Registered
        Entity type:NZ Limited Company
        Constitution filed:Yes
        AR filing month:August , last filed on 01 Aug 2011
        FRA Reporting Month:December
        Company Addresses:Registered Office
        Level 8, 66 Wyndham St, Auckland , New Zealand
        Address for service
        Level 8, 66 Wyndham St, Auckland , New Zealand
        View all addresses
        DirectorsShowing 2 of 2 directors
        George KOSTAS
        36 Johnston St,, Annandale, Nsw 2038, Australia ,
        Peter George WALL
        233 Beach Road, Campbells Bay, North Shore City, 0630 , New Zealand

  12. kousei 12
    15 October 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Someone sent me a report prepared for the 2012 Rio conference about sustainable developement in the 21st century. Not sure if anyone has discussed this but the report concludes with three basic senarios.

    1. Business as usual economic growth model
    2. Green Growth
    3. A radical departure from the mainstream and the idea of business as usual.

    The report suggests we had no choice but option three. Some of the things they recommended were a more equitable share of income, resources and work, reform of the financial system to better reflect real assets and liabilities, better measures of progress, tax reform to tax “bads” rather than goods, promoting technological solutions that support well-being rather than growth, establishing strong democracies and creating cultures of well-being rather than consumption.

    Strangly this doesn’t sound like a Utopian fantasy to me, nor does it seem all that radical. It struck me as some pretty sound thinking developed with well presented ideas and information.

    I’m sure it will have some knashing their teeth in anger and dismay at the foolishness of such ideals. All in all their analysis sound a fuck of a lot better than the vision of Planet Key.

    Anyway if you haven’t read it yet you can judge for yourself. Heres the link.

    http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/dsd_sd21st/21_pdf/Building_a_Sustainable_and_Desirable_Economy-in-Society-in-Nature.pdf

    • Jim Nald 12.1
      16 October 2012 at 9:56 am

      Dear kousei and others who may be reading this

      (Ok, I am serious here. Very serious.)

      I have consulted someone on the inside and need to say that the report, to which you have linked, is one of the reports that fed into the final main report.

      I have been advised that the final report itself was significantly watered down and does not carry through the findings made by Costanza, Alperovitz et al.

      The report by Costanza and colleagues is commendable (also, the authors are highly regarded by progressive people) and will require greater advocacy, championing and publicity.

      All the best.

      • kousei 12.1.1
        16 October 2012 at 8:03 pm

        Interesting. Thanks. I wonder why it was watered down in the final report? Any idea why? Maybe it is just too bigger leap in contempory economic thinking.

  13. Jokerman 13
    15 October 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Recognition Politics, now there is a Ring to that.

    A.D.Anarcho-syndicalism? Gardening! (it’s organic)

    just been weeding the beans, now to divide the seed potatoes and plant them at the helpful depth.

  14. Dr Terry 14
    15 October 2012 at 1:39 pm

    To change the subject, as important as it is, may I suggest people take care to read the Tapu Misa column on poverty, just about the one decent thing you will find in today’s Herald. I hope the matter of poverty and its effects will not be lost sight of when there are these other important issues which we must not allow to distract us.

  15. starlight 15
    15 October 2012 at 2:22 pm

    The christchurch press today has a story headlined ‘parata rejects claims’
    Chris Hipkins has uncovered more spin and bs,the govt promised
    to invest $1b in christchurch schools over the next 10yrs,what she failed to say
    is half that money would be spent anyway.
    Half the $1 billion would come from exsisting baseline funding or insurance
    recoveries.
    Parata led the people of christchurch to believe the $1 billion was new
    money and an investment.

    • ianmac 15.1
      15 October 2012 at 2:57 pm

      Yes starlight and no doubt the balance will be more than recouped with the sale of ex-school land. Even make a profit I suppose. Smoke and mirrors?

  16. the pink postman 16
    15 October 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Cann anyone explain how this ghastly government can still be toping the TV3 poll Garner was looking very smug .This is one of the worst governmnnts I have ever been under in fact it could very welL be the worst ever yet the polls say they are the cats whiskers how can this be?

    • McFlock 16.1
      15 October 2012 at 4:08 pm

      Polls are easily consciously or subconsciously skewed in their formulation and methodology. The 3 news one is also difficult to get a trend off because of its irregular sampling. It’s also 7% off the roy morgan poll released recently.
            
      Even if you take a midpoint between the two polls, nat are on 44-45%. They’d be a bit concerned at that. They have no friends, and they won’t campaign so well next election (whether lab campaign worse is another issue).
           
      At best for nats, they are dropping support slightly. At worse, they are being steadily eroded. 

      • Dr Terry 16.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 5:28 pm

        I have been waiting for the matter of the TV 3 poll to be raised! How accurate this survey has been in the past, I do not know. But I find it disturbing. Talk about “bad behaviour being rewarded” following all the dread record of National since the last election! If this result is accurate, then surely it means that virtually half the country’s voters are lacking in powers of discernment (eg backing Bennett’s victimising victims), lacking intelligence, lacking ethical standards (eg tolerating the many lies), lacking compassion (= self-interest; “I’m alright Jack” stance), lacking acquaintance with current affairs whilst settling for apathy and futile “hopes”, looking for distractions from thinking about political policies and decisions (especially those which are “humanitarian”)

        That will do for starters. But what a judgement this is on so many (48.8% National). The one mildly good sign is the gradual fall in popularity for Key himself, though still high at 41%. Shearer comes in at a frightful 8.5%, and that speaks for itself. Incredibly, the Greens, who have proven themselves a strong and able Opposition, are allowed to slide.

        The supporters of NACT clearly have the same amnesia as their dear leaders, Banks and Key. This seems to be “copy-cat” behaviour. They still look (despairingly?) for that nonsensical “brighter future”. These people, worst of all, surely care little, if at all, about what will be left to their descendants. They need pray to be spared from future condemnation.

        Thus we see Stuff happily declaring “a sigh of relief”(for the PM) as there is “no major damage”. It must wait a while, but history will have a sad story to relate.

        • McFlock 16.1.1.1
          15 October 2012 at 5:42 pm

          Nah, I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. 
          Firstly, the poll overestimated nat electoral support by something like 3% (at 50.x%), and underestimated labour by 1 or 2% just prior to the election. It’s not good for tracking changes, because you can’t really ID a trend due to the irregular period.
               
          Basically, it’s one of the more tory-leaning polls, and it is what it is. What I look for is the spread of polls and their trends, and the gist of those is that nat support is slowly wearing down. And remember, who have they got to be friends with come coalition-forming time after the election? A few percent from Maori, and a couple of rotten boroughs. They barely managed to get their main policies of asset sales through, and that’s with a 2011 “victory” that had some in the media creaming their pants. 
             
          Roy Morgan has them heading below 42% on the trend, and if reid research is 2% too high nat are fucked. 

          • gobsmacked 16.1.1.1.1
            15 October 2012 at 6:40 pm

            There’s a steady but slow decline in National’s support, across all polls.

            That would be OK, if the government was only facing “normal” problems. But in fact, it has been a constant run of bad news and self-inflicted wounds, the worst year I can recall for any government under MMP. The opposition have been given so many gifts, and keep failing to capitalise.

            If anybody wants to know why the voters aren’t switching to Labour in droves, just watch Shearer on 3 News tonight. A rabbit in the headlights. Roadkill.

            Dr Terry’s first paragraph should not be directed at the voters, but the Labour caucus.

            • Jim Nald 16.1.1.1.1.1
              15 October 2012 at 6:45 pm

              I must gracefully volunteer and provide a comment, shamelessly unsolicited by Monsieur Matthew Hooton at this point:

              Shearer is the present government’s best friend.

              Labour would do very well to invest more time, support and patience to give him two more terms to improve as Opposition Leader.

              • McFlock …
                15 October 2012 at 9:47 pm

                lol
                     
                methinks hoots doth protest too much.
                      
                I have been in a couple of workplaces where the politics became dysfunctional. Half the crowd kept saying at the slightest excuse “ooooh, this is massive, X will have to quit now or find another job”. But most of the time most people didn’t really give a shit.
                       
                I reckon a lot of that is going on here – while the GCSB think and the WINZ things are abysmal, and would have already brought down any government with an ounce of shame… but most people are just trying to make ends meet. 

                 

          • starlight 16.1.1.1.2
            15 October 2012 at 11:23 pm

            To McFlock,just in case it goes somewhere else.
            I too was dismayed at the tv3 poll so i went and had a look at roy morgan
            yesterday and this is what i found, (i did post it on open mike).I thought
            surely not,the people of nz can’t be that brainless,could they ?
            Poll taken 24/9 – 7/10
            NZ wide and 827 electors.

            Nats 41.5% down 2%
            Labour 33.5% up 0.05%
            Greens 13.5% up 2%
            NZ First 6.5% up 1.5%

            These figures are probably more reflective of the feeling out there
            than some jacked up poll and may i say it, ‘fiddled with’

            • McFlock 16.1.1.1.2.1
              15 October 2012 at 11:28 pm

              And the big thing is the trends – a rogue sample can spike 5% one way or the other, and then back again. Looking at the trends from a few different polls does give a leftie heart at the moment 🙂

          • Lou 16.1.1.1.3
            16 October 2012 at 8:14 am

            What annoys me most about these polls is that I am never asked, cos I am apparently never on the Street (cos I work and live in the suburbs). So does that mean that only upwardly mobile people working in major cities and going out on the streets at lunchtime are ever polled? So the polls are meaningless and don’t worry me.

  17. Draco T Bastard 17
    15 October 2012 at 4:40 pm

    And the SoE are to go ahead as expected.

    The Government this afternoon confirmed it will not proceed with the Waitangi Tribunal’s “shares plus” concept to address Maori claims over water when it partially privatises Mighty River Power next year.

    • mickysavage 17.1
      15 October 2012 at 6:01 pm

      There is probably an urgent search of all “dead frogs” they have that can be released in the next couple of days while Bennett’s blunder obliterates all other news.

      • Jim Nald 17.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 7:00 pm

        Might be good to have a webpage such as “Dead Frogs Watch”, similar to the series of “Poverty Watch”.

  18. PlanetOrphan 18
    15 October 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Mesage for LPRent

    The edit cursor movement is slow as bud, double handling?
    (Failed external call maybe ?)

    • lprent 18.1
      15 October 2012 at 10:06 pm

      In the comment editors? That runs completely client side for both. Hasn’t had any changes in the wsiwyg in 4 months which is the only one we ship code for. Restart your browser would be the best bet

  19. Paul 19
    15 October 2012 at 7:28 pm

    Campbell Live continues to do proper journalism.
    Recommend the segment it produced on Pike River this evening.
    It also shows the benefit of having the actual video ….before you say you have it. JK’s pre-election promise to the Pike River families was pretty damning.

    • Jokerman 19.1
      15 October 2012 at 8:00 pm

      Talk about Infantilisation; see Close-Up.Now we have the “sitting down too long” N#z*s! And props to create a “garden shed” at work (can’t sit too long though) As the tags say “you could not make this stuff up” (well maybe Don Delillo could)
      When I was at High School, dreaming about an occupation, before the Calvinists forced me to work, I used to gaze at office buildings, and think, that is the Last place I want to spend day, after day, after day. Now, see what it does to peoples brains.
      Unfreakinbelievable, if you did not see it for your self.
      Well, I suppose in an earthquake, they could brace themselves under the false Joists and Dwangs, if they have finished their wi session that is.
      He shook his head and wept.

      • Paul 19.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 8:15 pm

        Haven’t watched Close Up for ages.
        BTW do you notice Key is always available for Marcus Lush on Radio Live and Rawden Christie on Breakfast TV.
        I wish Radio NZ would be like Campbell Live when he announces that Key won’t front for an interview..

        • insider 19.1.1.1
          15 October 2012 at 9:34 pm

          Rnz I’ve noticed have been making a point of saying when pollies and execs won’t front in recent weeks, and that ‘the invitation remains open’

      • Draco T Bastard 19.1.2
        15 October 2012 at 8:21 pm

        Now we have the “sitting down too long” N#z*s!

        You’d prefer to die of Deep Vein Thrombosis?

        • Jokerman 19.1.2.1
          15 October 2012 at 9:16 pm

          I understand Draco; I wear a T-Shirt that graphically portrays the evolution of “man” to “man sitting at computer terminal” I do not understand the “will” to spend all day in a building; I understand evolutionary biology (yes that is complementary to Monotheism, Abraham was a nomadic shepherd after all, How any body, “thinks” they really know anything makes me smile)
          And on that subject, of people changing their minds (only machines don’t); people like you have been my intellectual parents, as odd as that appears, however, it is not an easy road being gifted, just ask all the employers,friends and women I burnt testing “reality”
          I do not care about the consequences of being open; If bigots like Laws et al; can get away with their Hate-Mongering and still walk the streets, it is beyond me; Why the angels did not place a contract, I am not sure, but I guess things are better Left to cool.
          Anyway, the reason I am drawn to The Standard, Lyn, is that I am 100% in agreement that this modern project of Capitalism is exploitative and wasteful, and the sooner it dies it’s inevitable death (when the 1% start fighting between themselves) the better (and God willing, I will see it in my lifetime, if not armageddon.) I am not political in the classical sense, I am a futurist (gardening does not develop DVT) and therefore, anything that Hone and Mana can achieve radically, or, normatively for Maori is fine by me.
          Labour used to have the Maori vote largely captured, well, Rogernomics and their bastardization of the “third way” stuffed that, and I agree with the commentators; either Shearers strength will be the coalescence of a coalition or his leadership will drag Labour along.
          I read people (it is a blessing, and a curse, obviously a curse for me) and I am not certain about Russell Norman. (but I have a middle-aged crush on J-A and Helen K; have never met them, but y’ know 🙂 )

          anyway,
          here are a couple of interesting men; (I do not know why it is men’s thought that I identify with, you will have to ask QoT; sometimes, it is, what it is)
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Said
          and
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustapha_Tlili
          (I use wikiped links as those who want to look further will, those who will not, well, they yawn; whogaf

          -John (now the mazerati are posting stuff on my news feed; Interesting, hence the importance of discernment for wisdom)

          God Bless The Left (the only direction out of this mess; No, I am not a Zionist, the nations are merely instruments)

          🙂

          and this is not just a “blog”; I have systematically registered and recorded empirical (sense data) that blogging affects the greater polity)

          • Draco T Bastard 19.1.2.1.1
            15 October 2012 at 10:37 pm

            I do not care about the consequences of being open; If bigots like Laws et al; can get away with their Hate-Mongering and still walk the streets, it is beyond me; Why the angels did not place a contract, I am not sure, but I guess things are better Left to cool.

            What do we learn if someone else comes along and fixes our fuckups?

            • Jokerman 19.1.2.1.1.1
              15 October 2012 at 10:41 pm

              Nothing!( I was a Field Mechanic; In my work, at least, I prepared, and Repaired My Fuck-Ups, 95% of the time, not-withstanding my health challenges)
              next thought?

            • Jokerman 19.1.2.1.1.2
              15 October 2012 at 11:18 pm

              just to close, you may be atheistic Draco, you may not,( I read a generosity of spirit) , however people like Lyn, you, and others who shepherd on here piss all over the right-wing idiot journalists and bloggers who attempt to represent this country. All they do is crap in the sewer that this country is becoming; there was no “season of the golden weather”, but it may be different if the sheep open their minds before they get the bolt in the head;
              I work at not judging, however, the emotions of sadness, anger, and disgust are real human
              phenomena, and all one can do is attempt to master them, as humans have done before;
              It is interesting reading of the exemplars and their thoughts, the Baal-Shem-Tov, for example, yet this country has such a shallow history of thought, even our literature and popular culture has been nothing striking, All angst and Self, via the “team” if required, all this Man Alone Bullshit.
              The proof is in the pudding; now, in the 21st Century, what can we celebrate, other than the gift of our geology and geography?
              Te tangata, te tangata, te tangata

              Thank God for Maori

              night

              🙂

    • karol 19.2
      15 October 2012 at 8:07 pm

      Surveillance works both ways – first they monitored Dotcom, now Kiwis are showing they are filming John key.
       
      Key will be looking everywhere for hidden cameras from now on.
       
       

      • just saying 19.2.1
        15 October 2012 at 8:22 pm

        Completely unrelated Karol, but Robert at ‘Idle Thoughts of an Idle fellow’ wrote a post yesterday, responding to your report on the manufacturing crisis meeting at the weekend. I think he was also an attendee, and he was very mildly critical of your piece.
        Just in case you were unaware…

        • karol 19.2.1.1
          15 October 2012 at 8:30 pm

          Thanks, js.  don’t follow very many blogs, so no, haven’t seen it. But I’m glad people are critically discussing such an important issue.

      • freedom 19.2.2
        15 October 2012 at 11:49 pm

        that is an interesting bit of film, isn’t it

        it is exactly the type of circumstance where his current response would be, ‘i don’t remember’ ‘ i don’t recall’ ‘i got no memory of anything at all’ yet there he is this time saying the very words we all know he said and no smile no wave no spin no craft can alter that
        (apologies to mr gabriel)

  20. karol 20
    15 October 2012 at 7:29 pm

    “Privacy assured“…. but we are watching you on camera!

    • PlanetOrphan 20.1
      15 October 2012 at 7:37 pm

      Poor people …. one wonders how long it’ll drag on ….
      Could offer to wear an ankle bracelet,
      Disgusting I know but could ease the Bail conditions somewhat.

  21. Paul 21
    15 October 2012 at 8:42 pm

    David Shearer…. the Manchurian Candidate?
    Just when the government is on the back foot on Dotcom, along comes Shearer and makes a convenient error…which gets the government off the hook..not the first time this has happened.
    From memory, isn’t it a fact that the night before he put forward his candicacy for the Labour Party, he attended a party/bbq attended by several National Party MPs and prominent right wing bloggers?
    IMHO, the one thing preventing the government bleeding votes significantly over its policies and/or mismanagement of ACC, Kim Dotcom, Christchurch schools, Asset Sales…. is the rather opportune mishandinling of each topic by the leader of the opposition.
    Just wondering…

    • Olwyn 21.1
      15 October 2012 at 9:07 pm

      I think that whatever common ground he shares, or is suspected of sharing, with the people at that barbecue is more harmful than his miscalculated actions. The people who want a National Party have one, the people crying out for a Labour Party that reflects social democratic values at a time when they are being mercilessly screwed have…..David Shearer. I would be disappointed if Labour was polling well at the moment, because the last thing I want to see is a Labour Party that has turned into National, so that National can turn into ACT, so that the ticket clippers can relax and pour themselves another G & T. I was heartened by the EPMU/Manufacturers’ Assn meeting last Friday, but I remain mistrustful of David Shearer’s leadership so long as he thinks that left and right are not meaningful terms, and that the LP needs a new but unspecified vision.

      • Paul 21.1.1
        15 October 2012 at 9:14 pm

        Thanks Olwyn. I think this is an important conversation to be had.
        I voted Green last election and want to see a genuine Labour Party with a clear (as you put it succinctly) social democratic vision, in alliance as the next government.

        • Anne 21.1.1.1
          15 October 2012 at 9:50 pm

          Paul @21
          I think the problem lies as much with Shearer’s staff as it does Shearer himself. In fact Mike Williams put it succinctly on Radio NZ’s political slot this morning. He described them as hard working, genuine and talented people (words to that effect anyway) but very green. That is my observation too – particularly after the latest blunder. It defies belief they didn’t gather an affidavit or two (or something similar) before going public with the GCSB story. It showed a distinct lack of political nous.

          Let’s hope they’ve learned a big lesson.

          • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1.1
            16 October 2012 at 12:04 am

            A very green staff serving a very green leader. Great.

            And where is the Deputy?

            • Jim Nald 21.1.1.1.1.1
              16 October 2012 at 9:17 am

              With all due respect to those above, would it be possible to say “inexperienced”, “naive” or “gullible” (or “hopeless”) when that meaning is intended please.

              I should declare that this request is made even though I am not a member of the Green Party nor (sorry about this, folks, but please respect my choice to vote) will I be voting for the Green Party. At this stage.

              • Anne …
                16 October 2012 at 9:26 am

                Thought about that Jim Nald, but the wording used was replicating Mike Williams’ actual phraseology.

                .

          • muzza 21.1.1.1.2
            16 October 2012 at 9:17 am

            I think the problem lies as much with Shearer’s staff as it does Shearer himself.

            Um, no, the problem lies with Shearer now, those who backed him, and those that back them.

            His staff are simply the symptom of the deeper cause, as is Shearer!

            I’m with Paul – The comment about the footage, was a clear deliberate act by Shearer

    • starlight 21.2
      16 October 2012 at 8:51 am

      That is interesting about the bbq shearer was at before he put his name forward for
      election as leader of labour,labour should be questioning his job and looking for a
      replacement forthwith.
      The same thing i feel happened with roger douglas infiltrating the labour party
      years ago and look at how that turned out,douglas was always to the right of
      politics, his wrecking of our economy at the time reflected that. A nats pass time.
      Shearer’s malaise frustrates me,i feel like grabbing him and shaking him
      to wake him up,i hold my breath when he speaks on tv,the stammers are
      annoying also embarrasing,labour voters deserve better.
      In fact labour needs to rid itself of the old guard and bring in the new
      faces,there is some talent there,i am impressed with Clark,he is from dunedin,he
      speaks well in the house and speaks sense,Cunliffe should have been the leader
      instead of what we have now,if so, the picture would be totaly different.

      • Jim Nald 21.2.1
        16 October 2012 at 9:34 am

        Once again, I must interject and disgracefully offer a comment while wretchedly and defiantly promote the message from my esteemed Ill Padrino, Don Matthew Hooton,* that the Labour membership must really front up and face up to the fact that Shearer is slowly improving, well, very slowly, at best. Just give him a couple more terms please.

        Shearer is great for the polls, at least for Natz. And there is no alternative leadership from within Labour.

        *btw I don’t get any commission from him, nor do I have any conflict of interest … or if that can be proven false, then I can’t recall, I don’t know, or I didn’t read the email he sent me.

        • Jim Nald 21.2.1.1
          16 October 2012 at 10:03 am

          ** Oh, I could not recall another really inspired ‘John Key moment’ and that would be to sheet the blame on to other people (ie in this case, the blame can be put hard on Shearer’s staff).

          But muzza @ 21.1.1.1.2 (16 October 2012 at 9:17 am) is discouraging this line being taken.

  22. McFlock 22
    15 October 2012 at 10:44 pm

    News Flash: did the government raise veterans’ pensions after Keith Ng threatened to leak how little they got? /lol

  23. aerobubble 23
    16 October 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Why can’t I find a internet home package that does not come with a landline, do kiwis need to talk whenever there is a internet connection, has NZ every heard of mobile phones??? What happens if I want a second internet connection into a home from another supplier (just in case).

  24. Brett Dale 24
    16 October 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Thoughts and wishes to Martin Crowe and his family.

    Hers hoping for a full recovery.

  25. Brett Dale 25
    16 October 2012 at 3:48 pm

    The Polls are always wrong, those complaining about the tv3 poll should have nothing to worry about, national anit that high, then again either are the Greens.