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Open mike 15/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 15th, 2014 - 95 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

climate change head in sand-1[This is a photograph of a protest on Bondi Beach depicting the Australian Government’s approach to climate change]

Open mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

95 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2014 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The German leader asks our dear leader some awkward questions.

    “There was a moment of embarrassment for Mr Key when Dr Merkel was asked about New Zealand’s part in the Five Eyes spying arrangement, given her anger at learning the US had listened to her cellphone calls. Red-faced, he assured her that her calls were safe while she was here.”

    Doubt she believed him. Nice she brought the subject up.


    • Tracey 1.1

      he sucked air. Twice. Loudly. Probably cos he knows as a five eyes partner he is effectively tapping her phone if any of the others are. He is a buffoon.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        “he sucked air” ….and laughed sleazily…he and ex Jesuit Priest Tony Abbott are buffoons

        • music4menz

          Hi there Chooky: I’m not sure of Tony Abbot’s history, but what exactly is the relevance of your comment about him being a former Jesuit priest? Is this meant to imply he is some kind of freak or something?

      • Paul Campbell 1.1.2

        Honestly that goofy smile and inability to talk seriously when he talked about bugging Merkel was just such a ‘tell’. Someone has a very guilty conscience. If I were Merkel I’d be very very careful

    • Murray Rawshark 1.2

      Angela Merkel helped carry the kiwi basket too. More than Key has ever done. In Brisbane last night she went and had a beer in a pub and let people take selfies with her. It really seems that Germans have demystified their politicians, while ours are busy turning themselves into demigods.

  2. Paul 2

    John Roughan, the hagiographer of John Key and Deputy Editor of the Herald ( no conflict of interest, obviously) pimps for the TPP.


    “Nothing makes me prouder of New Zealand than its role in world trade liberalisation.”
    Who pays him to write this ****?
    Absolutely no critical thinking going on at all. Just a sort of weird reverse Nationalism. His argument sounds like…’I’m so proud of NZ because we were the first country to promote our country to be taken over by massive corporates interests.’

    You won’t read anything about the problems ordinary people in Mexico, the U.S. and Canada suffered from the signing of NAFTA.
    Mexico. http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/01/10/after-20-years-nafta-leaves-mexicos-economy-ruins
    Canada. http://www.globalresearch.ca/nafta-is-20-years-old-here-are-20-facts-that-show-how-it-is-destroying-the-economy/5396316
    The U.S..A. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html

    Who were the winners of Nafta?
    Transnational corporations and banks.

    And people who know what they’re talking about say the TPP is ‘NAFTA on steroids.’

    So why would Roughan support the TPPA?
    Well, look at who he admires and fawns over?
    Who did John Key work for before he was placed in NZ?
    A massive transnational bank.

    • Sanctuary 2.1

      Roughan is a fine colonial sycophant of the mother country de jour.

    • Tracey 2.2

      The funny thing is business think they need a fighting fund to get the facts about benefits in the public domain. If you follow our media all you hear of is the so calked jobs and increased wages we have to trust will follow… No specifics of course

    • Chooky 2.3

      If we sign up with the TPP we will be gutted by the banksters….Why should New Zealand farmers go bankrupt and the rest of New Zealand be vulnerable to TPP corporate bankster takeover….….when we could be forging new Trade links with Russia…a huge market…and a future long term trading partner which could set New Zealand up to be a much wealthier country ……it is a no brainer!…we should be getting into this new market opportunity fast….like Latin America




      • tinfoilhat 2.3.1

        🙄 russia 🙄

      • Draco T Bastard 2.3.2

        when we could be forging new Trade links with Russia…a huge market

        Russia, like China and the US, is quite capable of producing it’s own milk and will probably get around to it at some point.

        Really, all you’re doing there is demanding that we continue with unsustainable economic practices.

        • Chooky

          @DTB…you would prefer to see New Zealand farm land sold…. as dairy farmers go the wall? (….to the banksters and TPP investors and other foreign investors out of NZ hands?)

          …there is a glut of dairy and other agriculture produce in Europe caused by USA inspired sanctions on Russia…. and Russian counter sanctions on European dairy and apples etc…..Russia is not buying from Europe …it is buying from Latin America…and would buy from new Zealand

          Russia excludes New Zealand from these sanctions!….it is open to trade with New Zealand!…..why should NZ dairy and other agriculture food producers of eg apples be happy with such low prices elsewhere in a glut market eg USA, China , Europe that they go to the wall ?

          …..Do you want to impoverish New Zealand and make it more vulnerable to a TPP corporate take over? ….Do you really think TPP will encourage us NOT to “continue with unsustainable economic practices”…..bullshit …we will have no sovereignty left to look after the environment!….far better to enact our own environmental laws

          ….sure NZ has to diversify away from dairying ….but why be forced to sell our precious land to overseas banksters ?… and you think they will diversify away from dairying? ( pigs might fly)

          • Draco T Bastard

            What a load of bollocks.

            The export led economy doesn’t work. It is unsustainable because a) the countries that we export to are quite capable of producing their own and will do so, b) is environmentally damaging and c) takes those resources that we need to be a rich country and exports them for digital dollars.

            We need to change our economic system and not more of the system that’s destroying us.

            BTW, you’ll note that I’ve been calling for a complete ban on foreign ownership for quite some time.

            • Chooky

              i do note you have been calling for a ban on foreign ownership and I have often agreed with you ( have you noticed that?) ….but just because you call for a ban on foreign ownership does not mean it will happen

              ….and foreign ownership of New Zealand farm land is more likely to happen if farmers are forced off their land by banks ….if farmers can not afford to repay debt( eg Crafar Farms) …..due to glut low prices for their products in Europe

              @ to “The export led economy doesn’t work”.. we need it at the moment…a) Russia is open to our trade and dairy…we need good prices , they need our product b) “environmentally damaging” …yes but we must regulate our own environment … and we can do so better if we own our land and it is not taken over by foreign speculators at dirt cheap prices c) .. we can’t rely on overseas speculators and ownership to protect our resources …and we need those dollars to diversify in areas we choose eg technology ( not massive real estate development for foreigners)

              You do not change an economic system by running the Nz farm owners into receivership and then selling it to overseas speculators …it will be more of the same but worse because we wont own it or have sovereignty

              • chris73

                if farmers can not afford to repay debt( eg Crafar Farms) …..due to glut low prices for their products in Europe

                – Naah I have to disagree with that, it was more like “The Crafars had expanded rapidly by using their existing farms as leverage, and could no longer service their debt”

                So basically got too greedy and paid the price because:

                “In 2009 they owned 22 farms, 18 of which are dairy, and 20,000 cows,[3] making them New Zealand’s largest family owned dairy business.”

                I’m not against people trying to make money but if you fail due to being too greedy then its your own fault

                However most of the rest I agree with

              • Draco T Bastard

                You do not change an economic system by running the Nz farm owners into receivership and then selling it to overseas speculators

                Actually, I think you’ll find that is the only way it will be changed as more and more people people get pissed off with being serfs to foreign owners.

    • RedBaronCV 2.4

      What I don’t understand is why local business is not protesting more. I can see that multinationals will benefit but aside from a few obvious candidates I suspect a lot of local business is going to get taken to the cleaners. Presumeabley we can now be flooded with cheap low grade milk powder from elsewhere with no chance to protest

      • North 2.4.1

        Obviously “Resign Resign” Armstrong has taken his own advice – or retired at the least. Replaced by TheGodKey sycophant and bugle-boy Roughan.

        Had to laugh at the mini-biography beneath his Herald article – “His interests range from the economy, public policy and politics to the more serious issues of life.”

        “The more serious issues of life” ? Oh right……the barbecues, hangin’ out with The Gauche One talkin’ shit. Faithfully reporting.

      • Paul 2.4.2

        How much of a voice have small businesses?
        Tiny by comparison to the massive corporates like Warner, who Key buddies up to.

        • RedBaronCV

          Well smaller business votes here so pointing out the false feet of the god may change a few minds?

    • Clemgeopin 2.5

      It would definitely be smarter for New Zealand to have separate bilateral trade agreements with other countries, just as we have with China and Australia, rather than be part of a large group agreement dictated primarily by USA. That way, we will have greater mutual economic advantage on a case by case basis without at the same time compromising our independence, laws, rights and our sovereignty.

      I hope the government and all MPs, including at least some National MPs, will understand this simple but important fact, see the light and get out of this TPP immediately. Will they? Here is hoping.

  3. karol 3

    Thanks, Lynn for the “Replies” tab. Very useful.

    • Paul 3.1

      Yes, thanks Lynn. A great new feature.

    • Once Was Tim 3.2

      Bugger me Lynn – that’s ekshly quite clever. Thanks! Very useful for intermittent visitors to check whether comments need a reply (excluding the Jamie Lee Ross morning prayers brigade of course)

    • Murray Rawshark 3.3

      Yeah, thanks. I like it. This blog is much more user friendly than TDB, where everything is unnecessarily complicated.

  4. joe90 4

    Understanding the foreign exchange scam.

    ON MONDAY: You are on your way to the fruit market, because you want to buy five oranges. Someone you’ve never met before accosts you on your way and says “Hey, you! Could you buy me five oranges please? I’ll give you the money when you come back and pay you ten pence for doing it”. You think what the hell, and say yes.

    Down at the market, there is one stall which has five oranges for sale at 50p each, and another stall with five oranges for sale but charging 55p each. You buy ten oranges and head back home.

    Your customer is waiting back at your gate. He gives you your ten pence, and asks “How much did my oranges cost?” What do you tell him?

    You have three choices really.

    a) Tell him “50p each” — ie, you filled his order first and then your own
    b) Tell him “55p each” — ie, you bought yours first, and then his
    c) Tell him “52 and a half pence” — ie, you give him the weighted average of what you managed to pick up


    edit: this too


  5. chris73 5

    – For our resident vegan, i think he’ll get a kick out of this battle between carnivores and vegans

    • b waghorn 5.1

      The left should make that elephant there mascot . Should of asked you yesterday did you have any policies in mind that would get your vote.

      • chris73 5.1.1

        Theres a couple that would but I won’t mention them as John Key wouldn’t consider them so not much point mentioning them…

        However being that I’m not a minister and as such don’t have access to the same resources its only bare bones ideas but…

        Take the main offices for government departments and ship them out to smaller provincial centers

        Cap the pay for the heads of government depts

        Buy back the shares in power companies (at current market prices of course) and combined with the rail system use it to hire people (again focusing on rural and provincial areas) on minimum wage ie like when the railways were a dumping ground for the unemployed and you had three people pushing a broom

        Of course this would be pretty expensive to implement so pay rises would kept to what National are doing, corporate fraud should be cracked down on and welfare fraud will be cracked down on as well

        Also a minimum child welfare payment system put in place ie this is how much you get and if you have anymore kids then thats your responsibility, not sure how much the amount would be but I wouldn’t take it backwards and contraception and getting the snip would be actively encouraged

        Free breakfast and lunch to all school children to be partly subsidised by a corresponding drop in welfare payment ie 1 child has 10 meals per school week week at $5 each = $50 off the benefit and its compulsory

        Thats for starters

        Oh and just for Paul I’m not tro**ling because I’m answering a question, just to save you the bother

        • b waghorn

          I like the spreading government department s one another good reason for it is I find it mad ness to have government centered in a city that could possible be demolished in a shake.
          I was pro getting rail back to the old ways but after talking to a few people of that era apparently theft was rife
          the power one tricky I’d rather see cullin fund and kiwisaver funds chip away at them as they come up. I reckon the labour greens price control on power cost them lots of votes possible as many as cgt

          • chris73

            I was pro getting rail back to the old ways but after talking to a few people of that era apparently theft was rife

            – Yes that is true so it’d have to be done carefully and managed a bit better then before in the past

            I reckon the labour greens price control on power cost them lots of votes possible as many as cgt

            – I believe it was but I wouldn’t mind giving up future profit for myself if it means guaranteed (and theres the difficult thing about it) jobs for many others

            • b waghorn

              Railways could be good again if government found away to force more logs and milk to be carried by rail. “Be hard to stick a log up your jumper”

          • greywarshark

            @ b waghorn
            What do you mean that control on power prices cost votes? Not that many people had shares in the power companies. And not everyone has invested just for maximum profit – many would like the certainty of having shares in a basic utility that wouldn’t disappear as other companies might.

            I don’t see that this would be of effect on votes in any appreciable amount.

            • b waghorn

              This is how I see the power company share sales 1st key gives the wealthy I nice tax cut freeing up cash to buy our own power companies ,and meaning any attempt buy the left to control returns will cost voters . you may be right about numders being low I don’t know them, but most people put there own personal comfit ahead of greater good. It also seemed to me two be some of the worst kneejerk policy from the left.

        • greywarshark

          @ chris 73
          I like the sound of your ideas. Like all ideas they need fleshing out and have add-ons or changes so they are fit for purpose, and we want humane approaches to social problems. But I think they would be good in coping with them.

          Now what do you think about work. People out of work get unhappy, lose hope, don’t plan for better things they want to work and earn for because what’s the point. We all need to be aspirational for a good life, and then we want to achieve that. I think that it is good for people to be doing something that they can get good money for, not have all money received just on living basics and then stripped of the benefit for weeks after they finish a job. What a bureaucratic nightmare these vicious government vultures have thought up. They seem like out-of-control attack dogs and bite your life off you when you go for help to their offices in some places.

          I want better conditions and thoughtful, helpful guidance to get and stay in work even if it is just few hours a week. Probably work would be for special local council want-to-have projects like the old temporary work schemes. Start by arranging for them to work in managed gangs with good pay, pay for short-term gym use to keep or get fit, keeping them occupied and feeling they have a future and are important in their jobs and to the economy. Not sneered or disparaged as welfare slobs or something unworthy of respect. That would be mostly for men and women without children.

          For mothers and fathers with child responsibilities. There would be assistance to keep or raise their work experience with even few hours weekly, and raise their general education and special workshops on child care and training. They would be helped with opportunities to meet and be involved in group activity which would have positive outcomes for them, which would be monitored for outcomes and properly run. Contraception and sexual management and workshops on relationship building would be mandatory for both parents who were on welfare, or had committed crimes, or could be encouraged to attend.

          For parents, transport to and from activities, workshops, education, medical care for the family and workshops on health would be available, always with the idea that the parent and children are one unit and all will be receiving benefit. This useful approach has been documented and also how to run it properly so it isn’t money wasted on sloppy self-indulgent social happenings paid for by government grants.

          A lot of our social troubles would start immediately to diminish, and in time with more useful skill building and opportunities we could manage our way through this poorly run economy and government-inadequate mess to an upward moving society on a happiness index and also on material improvement measures.

          • chris73

            Well as a start, using the railways as an example, maintenance of the lines needs to be done at regular intervals, lights, barriers, weed spraying etc etc this is reasonably low-skilled work and no doubt keeping the carriages clean would also take some doing

            So even just having some people get out of bed in the morning and going to work would be massively useful and would go along way to alleviating some of the main problems we have in this country but (having said all that) the minimum wage is just that, the bare minimum and it shouldn’t be used as the basis for people to raise a family, live or however you want to put it, it should be for people starting out in the workforce

            • greywarshark

              chris 73
              Don’t be narrow in your thinking. First don’t dismiss the very jobs that you mention as useful, as not useful even essential. Second when people get out to work and stick at their jobs making a good fist of it, give them more than the bare minimum wage so they can have a life. The job may be less glamorous to technophiles, than sitting at a desk with a console with countless measuring dials as Homer had in the Simpsons.

              But the manual job requires energy, thought, commitment and is essential to keep the system in good order. The wage must indicate a respect for that and for the person doing it so they have enough to live plus enjoy life. The worker who is responsible and reliable raises themselves from unskilled to skilled by those amongst other attributes. Don’t diss reliability, honesty etc.

              Glen Campbell sings about the lonely job of an experienced and committed skilled worker when he sings I am a lineman for the county and he has a life and a person who he cares for but is out doing the hard work in the cold.
              As Peter Cook said in one of his skits, That’s integrity, and I’m willing to pay for it.

              Writed by Jimmy Webb
              from MetroLyrics

              I am a lineman for the county.
              And I drive the mainroad.
              Lookin’ in the sun for another overload.
              I hear you singing in the wire.
              Chorus 1
              I can hear you thru the whine.
              And the Wichita Lineman,
              is still on the line.

              I know I need a small vacation.
              But it don’t look like rain.
              And if it snows that stretch down south,
              won’t ever stand the strain.
              And I need you more than want you.
              Chorus 2
              And I want you for all time.
              And the Wichita Lineman,
              is still on the line.

  6. Raa 6

    A great image.

    A ritual circle, three dark skins in immediate view representing indigenous people – one good humouredly vertical, and the symbolism of a head in the sand as a comment on the current policies of the Abbott government.

    • Murray Rawshark 6.1

      The Aussie tv news managed to focus on the bikini clad vagina area of one of the protestors. It made me angry. A serious issue and they turn it into soft porn.

  7. Raa 7

    Note their digital literacy – no data for facial recognition software.

  8. alwyn 8

    Perhaps the Labour Party should continue the leadership contest and delay the vote indefinitely.
    The polling results seem to improve if there is no leader in sight.
    The Greens and NZF, who have a settled leadership, are dropping in their support.
    It appears that Opposition Parties are better off if nobody knows who is picking their policies and what will happen if they happen to get into power.
    It is probably lucky for all of them that the election was held when it was, given that the Government support is rising again.

    • Raa 8.1

      Keep the *******s guessing, eh ?

    • swordfish 8.2

      “It is probably lucky for all of them (the Opposition parties) that the election was held when it was, given that the Government support is rising again.”

      In the first post-Election Roy Morgan a couple of weeks ago (you know, the one you Tories kept very quiet about), the Nats were down 3.5 points and the Government Bloc fell by almost 3 points, relative to the Election result. Meanwhile, the Left Bloc climbed almost 4 points. The Greens being the major winners in that poll (despite a misleading headline by Roy Morgan and some woefully mistaken analysis from CEO Michelle Levine).

      And now in the second post-Election Roy Morgan, we have a swing in the opposite direction. I’d say a good deal (though not all) of this movement over the last 2 polls is purely sampling error.

      Still, it’s good you acknowledge Labour’s rise in the latest poll. Our old chum and former confidante, Fisi, implied in yesterday’s Open Mike that Labour were in fact falling (presumably hoping no one would bother checking).

      • fisiani 8.2.1

        I implied no such thing, Simpletons may however have inferred. You fail to point out that National have surged ahead. No implication intended.

        • swordfish

          Me: Fisi implied in yesterday’s Open Mike that Labour were in fact falling.

          You: I implied no such thing. Simpletons may however have inferred.

          You (Yesterday – in reference to latest Roy Morgan) How low can Labour go

          Seems pretty clear-cut to me, sweet-pea (albeit leaving just the tiniest, flimsiest bit of wriggle-room).

          Open mike 14/11/2014

  9. Molly 9

    Russell Brands Trews today dismantling the effects of media training on politicians:
    Why Can’t Politicians Talk Like Normal People?

    • Once Was Tim 9.1

      Now there’s something Labour hopefuls could do (Learn to talk like Norman Normal). They’d get a real lift in popularity. No more ‘learnings’ (lessons) and ‘going forwards’ (to coin a phrase, so to speak, as a matter of fek, ekshly – in the fullness of time)

      • b waghorn 9.1.1

        Little seems to speak plainly I see they are all ready putting pressure on him to get media trained more proof that the media are to full of there own self importance.

  10. North 10

    Stewart Lee – very funny man.

    Check out this clip particularly from 5.01 onwards – although apparently not intended to be, a perfect representation of our very own Boys’ Own, Little Churchill, Johnny Key at the G20 – round and round he goes sniffing out some schmoozable Power-Arse up which to climb. Very possibly guffawing off-jokes about Muslims. As only Mr Gauche would consider meet.

  11. chris73 11


    – If Tony Ryall has a part to play in this then (even out of office) hes still one of the most effective operators in NZ politics

  12. greywarshark 12

    That image of the young Ozzies with their heads in the sand, and someone doing a bold headstand as the centrepiece, makes me wonder how this sort of government ever gets elected. And Australia specialises in dopey and mean-minded ones. Even will accept a NZ if they fit the slot – think Joh Bjelke Peterson in Queensland.

    I remember someone making a cynical comment about meetings and agendas – that if you can put the important thing at the end and have a lot of discussion about something which is not essential then you can slip things through. May be halfway down the topics would be a quote for better loos, or for a shelter roof over the front of the building, and by the end of the agenda and the topic of continuing planning for a nuclear reactor it is agreed quickly with cursory consideration.

    I think that is similar to the trouble with our form of politics. The triumphant party gets in, announces it has been given a mandate for things it briefly mentioned in its campaign speeches without any discussion of the details Following that they proceed to the ones they are sure that people would want them to do, that they never referred to. And that is our fine democracy folks. Very hit and miss. And we know what it misses, and who misses out.

    • alwyn 12.1

      Your second paragraph sounds rather like Parkinson’s Law of Triviality. People responsible for building a nuclear power station spend vastly more time on the bike shed, something they understand, than the station itself.
      I think the person who made your comment was probably plagiarising a bit.


      Alternatively it is taking the lines out of “Yes Prime Minister”, where the only significant item in Jim’s boxes, and the one that the Public Servants don’t want him to read but which they wanted to be able to claim he was advised about, is placed at the bottom of the last of the very large boxes. A minor item in a very large report. It was the episode “A Victory for Democracy” I believe.

  13. greywarshark 13

    @ Alwyn
    I think you have identified what I was talking about. It stayed in my mind because I have attended meetings that have run to the same level of discussion. Thanks for the link.

  14. Lanthanide 14

    @ Lynn: The replies tab would be more useful if it had a little timestamp of the reply. I look at it now and there’s a long list of replies, but it’s not obvious which ones I’ve seen and which ones I haven’t. Putting the timestamp of the reply in would help.

  15. fisiani 15

    Fantastic news that New Zealand will have free trade with Korea. I wonder how many such wonderful free trade deals will be signed during this term. Why no celebration?

    • McFlock 16.1

      Not really.

      Imperfect as the current run-down system might be, on a daily basis it’s still a fuckload better than anything you or he would come up with.

      • karol 16.1.1

        Trotter fails on various points.

        Firstly, Smith/Traynor absconded because he saw no hope of parole in the foreseeable future. The authorities had real concerns about him still.

        Trotter sides with the “ignorant” and “superstitions”, “ordinary” Kiwis and opposes the “professionals” and “experts”. Yet, I’d say Trotter was more professional than uninformed, “ordinary” Kiwi.

        • alwyn

          Do you really think that Smith/Traynor is suitable for parole in the foreseeable future?
          I’m afraid, looking at his behaviour in the recent past, I don’t think he is.
          Would you not think that the danger to his victims outweighs his rights to go free and leave them in fear and in danger?

          • McFlock

            I’m sure the parole board will reach the same decision.

            Based on far more comprehensive information than “shows a moderate ability to state the bleeding obvious when it suits”, which seems to be your sole qualification for designing an entire justice system.

  16. Morrissey 17

    “We need to talk about Vladimir, we need to do something about Putin.”
    Could TV3 sink any lower than it did tonight?

    TV3 News, 6 p.m., Saturday 15 November 2014

    Surely the servile and craven nature of the New Zealand media is not a surprise to anyone by now. But no matter how jaded and resigned to the uselessness of our “reporters”, they still manage to shock with their combination of credulity, hypocrisy and puerility. Anyone who watched tonight’s TV3 News, for instance, would have been horrified by just how bad it was. Who wrote Patrick Gower’s script? He couldn’t have done it himself. He’s just not that stupid. Or is he?

    Item one was about a horrific fatal house fire in Hamilton; it was professionally handled and competently presented. The rot began with the second item. It started with a clip from Brisbane of an actor bloviating to a carefully selected audience which, according to the right wing Daily Mail, treated him “like a rock star” instead of like a war criminal…..

    BARACK OBAMA: The United States is leading in opposing Russia’s aggression, which is a threat to the world – which we saw in the appalling shoot down of MH17….

    PATRICK GOWER: Many countries are refusing to trade with Russia, but New Zealand has not joined the boycott. [Cue still photos of nefarious Russian leader with courageous Australian P.M. and saintly U.S. president.] John Key says Fonterra has not sought to take advantage of this.

    JOHN KEY: [speaking slowly, with as much sincerity as he can muster] “I’ve asked them to not profit from the situation, and to the best of my knowledge, they haven’t.”

    PATRICK GOWER: [speaking to camera] So Russia’s in the international naughty seat. That’s because of the shooting down of MH17, but also, even more importantly, because of its invasion of Ukraine. We need to talk about Vladimir, we need to do something about Putin.


    • Chooky 17.1

      It is Cold War replay


      We need to do something about Israel …Norwegian doctor banned for telling the truth



      Russia seeks independent review on war crimes


      • Morrissey 17.1.1

        The United States could stop Israel doing this kind of thing. All it has to do is to abide by its own law, which forbids extending aid to a country which is engaged in ongoing human rights violations.

        • nadis

          unfortunately there is a higher law called “not offending 6 million Jewish American voters as well as tens of millions of fundamentalist christian voters”

      • alwyn 17.1.2

        A rather more important thing to do Chooky.
        We need to do something about the European Scientific adviser removed because she told the truth.
        Alternatively we just accept that the neanderthal leaders of Greenpeace take charge of things they don’t understand..

        • Draco T Bastard

          So, what was your problem with dropping the science advisor and use many scientific institutes instead?

          • alwyn

            My problem is with the reason they wanted, and have succeeded, in having her sacked.
            She dared to publish the terrible view that there was no evidence of any harm at all from GM technology. Greenpeace in particular therefore led the charge to silence her. We can’t have scientists telling us that the more loony anti-science ideas are crazy can we?
            I find the idea that the Norwegian doctor is being banned from Gaza offensive. I find the idea that scientists should be silenced even more so because its reach is so much wider and is likely to do much more harm on a world-wide basis.

      • nadis 17.1.3

        I promise not to link to Fox News if you promise not to link to RT. Can’t decide which is the more biased. I think at least Fox News gets an extra point because at least they believe what they are saying whereas RT is doing what they are told.

        • Chooky

          @nadis …bullshit! ( obviously you are getting worried that there is an alternative to the shallow crap propaganda New Zealanders are spoon fed like babies on TV1 and TV3 ) You can get rt on Sky TV or on your computer

          …on rt most commentators /journalists/ interviewers are Western…. and very high quality eg Peter Lavelle on CrossTalk……they are American and British and European journalists talking with experts around the world (eg. academic , ex military, CIA, soldiers , government, financial experts , policy analysts, political think tank experts , aviation experts eg German ( on the downing of Malaysian airliners)…. and most important , brave reporters on the ground in the Middle East and Crimea Ukraine)

          … on rt they discuss and debate what they could never do on Fox news



          (btw : why would I do any deals with a right winger like you to stifle news and debate?….and please feel free to link to Fox News all you like)

    • Chooky 17.2

      @ Morrissey …re ..”PATRICK GOWER: …..We need to talk about Vladimir, we need to do something about Putin.”

      So ‘Who is Mr Putin?’


      “What is Putin’s image in the West? How has Putin evolved since he was elected in 2000? With an approval rating of 88 percent, what is driving his popularity? Is there a vacuum of leadership in the world? What will be Vladimir Putin’s legacy?”

      CrossTalking with Charles Bausman, Alexander Clackson, and Martin McCauley.

  17. Draco T Bastard 18

    If you thought you were secure using the TOR browser think again:

    Research undertaken between 2008 and 2014 suggests that more than 81% of Tor clients can be ‘de-anonymised’ – their originating IP addresses revealed – by exploiting the ‘Netflow’ technology that Cisco has built into its router protocols, and similar traffic analysis software running by default in the hardware of other manufacturers.

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