This is the greatest thing I have heard of in a long time
The kids are going to love that.
The kids will love having a cold milk. (I remember that.) I used to look forward to it so much everyday at school
It’s great
It won’t cost the taxpayers a thing.
I wonder what the government’s response will be?
The weak point of charity being, (as the Stuff.co news article points out), that as with most charity, it is mostly being done for the benefit of the giver.
To remove this initiative from the personal whims, or whatever, of any change in circumstances or personal at Fonterra.
The government needs to follow up with legislation to remove the power of any new board of directors at Fonterra, to undo this initiative, and also force their competitors to match it.
If Fonterra can do it, so can the rest. If the other big players of the New Zealand dairy industry aren’t compelled to join this scheme, this would be a competitive advantage that would eventually put pressure on Fonterra at some future time to undo this initiative.
Jenny I agree this is a great thing for Fonterra to be going ahead with, I’ve known about their plans for a little while and believe what they have in mind will be a real benefit to schools, children and the community in general.
But to suggest that the government legislate that they have to do it is really bizarre.
I’d prefer to legislate that employers pay workers above slave level wages.
Oh wait, we actually do that! And it works. Barely.
The bottom line for me here HS is that our sovereign government (not the convenience of the free market) needs to make a call on what is important and needs to happen for the welfare of our children.
So you’d be in favour of smart cards for benficiaries to ensure that the benefit is not spent on items such as lotto tickets, cigarettes, alcohol etc – after all surely that’s an important way the government can have a role in maintaining individual living standards.
really? You’re equating “35% on all income above $30k” or “chuck a portion of your $multi-billion profits towards giving kids calcium” with “we will micromanage even the most miniscule detail of your life”?
The point is that while minimum wage & legislating milk in schools at fonterra’s cost are not fundamentally dissimilar, wheras your attempt at comparing higher-level regulations that are administerable and workable (minimum wage, milk in schools, progressive taxation) with vetting each and every transaction a beneficiary tries to make was idiotic.
They are a large business, the largest after the government I expect.
I don’t see how you equate similarity in relation to government legislation for a minimum wage and posited government legislation that Fonterra supply free stock. For any government to legislate that a private company
In terms of the smart card for beneficiaries I was being facetious, anyway this will never even be trialled in NZ to see if it has positive effects on recipients and their children’s health and their buying behaviour – more’s the pity.
Not sure where you get the idea that this type of thing would by necessity vet each and every purchase a beneficiary tries to make. I think it would be more informative in the first instance to allow any and all purchasing on the smart card for the beneficiary within financial constraints and then have some budgeting advice available once the data comes back on where money is being spent.
“Budgeting advice”? If that’s all it’s for, why not just use the citizen’s own eftpos card?
Besides, it doesn’t “ensure” the benefit is only spent on whatever the case manager du jour regards as deserved.
But whether it’s someone defining a database of permitted products before the system is implemented, or just caseworkers going over the transaction logs as part of “budget advice”, my criticism still stands. And then there need to be audits and so on to ensure that people aren’t gaming the system (e.g. ringing up alcohol as “milk”). There’s a massive difference – and diminishing social returns – between the higher level regulation that easily integrates into the way things are currently done, versus spending a huge amount of resources on making sure absolutely no beneficiary has a single cent more than they are deemed to need.
hs What are you on? Flights of fancy and hyperbole have to meet reality eventually. Pity that you can’t think rationally about using government resources from the people to distribute healthy and helpful benefits to the people. But you don’t care do you, you are practising for your Christmas skit “Higher national standards in grinchdom”.
The government pisses a very large portion of their income up against the proverbial wall.
Not content with that buffoons like Colonial Viper demand that the government legislate that private companies such as Fonterra must provide product FOC just in case in a year or two’s time they decide to no longer provide milk FOC into primary schools.
Government legislation was required to allow Fonterra to be formed…. apart from that have you got some point you’re trying to make or are you just stinking up the interwebs.
Not content with that buffoons like Colonial Viper demand that the government legislate that private companies such as Fonterra must provide product FOC
Dairy farmers demand that the country provides them with water free of charge.
Gawd still screeching about right wing this and left wing then a bit of class war this class war that – seriously bud broaden your horizons and get out a bit more.
CV “Dairy farmers demand that the country provides them with water free of charge.”
Don’t forget the rivers and aquifers that they demand be available to dump their business’s crap and waste in. Which Nick Smith conveniently provides by pushing water quality control onto the regional councils which are majority controlled by farming interests. Oh, except where a regional council is not controlled by farming interests like Canterbury.
What a frikkin’ jip.
If ever there was something to get my own blood boiling it is this.
The government pisses a very large portion of their income up against the proverbial wall.
Well I hope they don’t waste any of it on you. You obviously are not appreciative or in need of any help you receive from the government which should go along with a desire that other people also be helped. Probably you have no need for government help at all being so clever, wise and self-sufficient. You sound like an urban Bear Grylls.
Let me spell it out for you the government of the day or any day for that matter takes in a large amounts of revenue to spend on Health, Education, Welfare, Policing, Transport etc
This is all excellent and to be applauded as I don’t believe anyone apart from the deluded think we should not have these publicly provided services, however, if you have yet to notice that in many areas we continue to spend more and more yet have the same or indeed poorer statistics I would suggest you haven’t been looking.
As a small local government example we have had Auckland transport funding a group of street performers in the middle of Queen Street teaching people how to cross the road when the buzzer goes – I kid you not.
Add to that the multitudinous QANGOs and government departments who produce reports for Africa which consist of dribble, jibberish and an opposite opinion to the report that they had produced for a previous minister.
Oh and how about the government forums where everyone gets a trip to Wellington or overseas to scoff it up big on the taxpayer and pontif-cate from on high – it just goes on and on and on regardless of whether the red or blue team have the keys to the car.
If you want to go on about waste just look at private sector waste.
Frankly lets start with the $1.1B plus that the private sector lost us tax payers in Southern Canterbury Finance.
Now here comes the $100M gifted to investment bankers for selling off our prime strategic power assets.
Or the luxury dinner out the Marton meatworks management treated themselves to after locking out their workers, demanding that meatworkers take a 20% pay cut.
It’s not a full roll-out but the current charity food in school programs are looking at being able to extend further because of this move.
They were saying this morning on Nine-to-Noon that milk’s a big part of their cost, so could look at expanding into other things – maybe add fruit to the menu (which will certainly please Carol, below).
Oh a realize that, I’m just hopeful that we may follow this through to it’s full potential and have state run or funded meals in schools.
Would be interested in seeing what the costings would be for nationwide rollout, I figure it could be pretty popular as an across the board policy if people could be convinced to pay for it.
I would expect some reduction in hospital admissions for e.g. dental caries, maybe reduced admissions in adulthood as well, greater attention at lessons (i.e. more complex food than sugar syrup), and improvements in overall health.
Fair point that could well be the case in the longer medium term – best place to monitor would probably be in parts of the Northland region where flouride usage is still low.
I must admit, I also see it as a way to raise benefits by default and give a what is in effect a tax cut to lower paid NZers by chopping their food bill in half without scaring the horses too much.
Figure it can be sold to middle NZ the same way (putting money in their pockets for the mortgage etc), but will be more beneficial to those on the bottom end.
Hmmm… I guess it’s great for all those children who love milk. Milk used to cause me to throw up when I was young. Even the smell of all the open bottles in the classroom used to make my stomach heave a little…. so not very pleasant memories.
I would have preferred a piece of fruit, but, I had no alternative choice back in those days of free school milk. I just used to have to take a note from my mum to the teacher at the beginning of each year to say I couldn’t drink it. It was compulsory to have one of those little bottles of milk each school day.
Yeah I was quite allergic to milk when I was younger. Caused a number of issues that the GP wouldn’t recognise, but which all stopped each time I went off the stuff for a few weeks.
But in this case it can be taken home and its the thought that counts!
Well, it will be of benefit to many children or families.
But it is a bit of a cynical marketting move, aimed at getting young children into drinking milk for life, and improving Fonterra’s image.
It is also a shrewd marketing move, possibly sparking improved sales of the whole Fonterra product range.
[…]
But Waikato dairy division representative Chris Lewis supported the idea of Fonterra giving free milk to schools, saying the cost would be probably be covered in the company’s sales and marketing budget.
So if this venture could be covered by the “sales and marketting budget”, why couldn’t the same logic have been applied to lowering the price of milk generally for Kiwis?
Through flagrant breaches of the law. Duopolies go for walks in the park to sort things and agree to not step on each other and divvy up the market etc.
One example – PDL and Skope did it with refrigeration back long ago – they agreed one would take residential and one take commercial. This was in fact admitted by the CEO just last year and published in the Press. See how flagrant it can be?
Anywhere there is a duopoloy or similar this goes on. Back room deals are not the stuff of comic books and conspiracy theories. And imagine if you will for a moment what is going on with the Chch rebuild at the moment. It went on in the construction industry pre-earthquake and will now be steaming ahead at a great rate of knots.
You may also wish to think about the concrete and cement industries and its dominance by Fletchers and Holcim.
Mind you – Vipers suggestion that things get regulated to that extent is similarly not feasible imo. His suggestion that milk retailers be regulated to wholesale price plus 10% … sheesh, surely the holes in that simplistic approach are glaringly obvious.
The Soviet Union collapsed and everyone cried “socialism has failed”. The money system is collapsing and everyone is crying “capitalism has failed”. Everybody seems to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Both systems have favourable and less favourble features. What is needed is a continuing effort to sort the warts, not toss the whole lot out.
The Soviet Union was socialist for about three weeks after the revolution, before it was taken over by an authoritarian dictatorship.
A economically and environmentally sustainable society is incompatible with lightly regulated capitalism.
A socialist society with large monopolies and infrustructure under democratic control and capitalism limited to the level of corner dairies, tradespeople and sme’s has been shown to work fine. That was NZ in the 50’s and 60’s.
Giving 60% of GDP to the financial gambling industry does not work.
Niether does letting those who benefit most from society get away without contributing their fair share. The rest of us in one way or another has to fill the gap. Which is difficult when they have already run away with 90% of the wealth. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2011/11/kia-ora-one-of-no-liberal-memes-is-if.html
It is only small businesses and the trades that are worried about the law.
Big ones get away with it all the time.
His suggestion that milk retailers be regulated to wholesale price plus 10% … sheesh, surely the holes in that simplistic approach are glaringly obvious.
The simpler the approach, the fewer the loop holes.
Well that doesn’t stop the monopolies duopolies and cartels finding away around it.
England has cheaper New Zealand lamb than we do 1/2 our price when the Wharehopuse wanted to set up Grocery supermarkets in competition with the duopoly they were under mined by the duopoly and our toothless commerce commiseration.
It jut so happens the English get paid shitloads more than we do, and how did they manage to ship it around the world and still have it cost the same price. Mysterious free global lamb freight.
Prism, as I understand it, milk in NZ is priced much higher than it needs to for the business to make a profit. And also, it looks to me that Fonterra is planning to provide milk to schools as much as a PR excercise as out of the charity of the CEO’s heart.
For the lactose intolerant children it would be nice if Fonterra proved a soy milk. This could also be available to children with asthma/eczema if milk is a trigger to these conditions.
There was a talk on radionz in the weeekend on what is in food – the chemicals that affect us. Soy milk should be reserved for those who can’t use ordinary as apparently it stimulates the female hormones.
The Fruit in Schools scheme was originally set up for decile one and two schools as a part of the NZ Cancer strategy – to increase fibre, anti-oxidants and vitamins into kids diets.
It was to be rolled out into decile 3 and 4, but Ryall stopped that (and mysteriously many schools suddenly jumped a decile or two)
They need t operate the Finnish model – feed all kids a healthy lunch – the benefits, both educational, health related and social interaction, far outweigh the cost.
I saw an item on TV a few months ago about a school feeding kids breakfast. The idea was great and I wouldn’t want to devalue it in any way.
But the teachers complained about the price. Milk, bread, butter, jam, weetabix – all expensive stuff and loaded with lactosy glutenous sugar problems. Big rush of hyperactive kids, then a big crash of grumpy moaning kids. Dunno if that helps teaching. I wondered why they didn’t take a leaf from our asian friend’s book and serve rice and vegetables. Then my wife suggested it was better kids ate not so good stuff than turn their noses up at healthy food. Still, you have to start somewhere.
I loved the free school milk. When in the senior classes I was an enthusiastic milk monitor because I got to drink not only my bottle, but any other leftover bottles. And it gave me an excuse to be out of the classroom for a little time each day.
The charity of this very large corporation is to be applauded – but it should not be forgotten that the need for this the need for it represents a failure of government as well as some individual families. We should not rely on corporate charity as a replacement for living wages and in support for better parenting.
In the news report the good citizenship of Fonterra was implied by mentioning their promise to freeze the domestic price of milk until the end of this year. Does anyone know how much this has cost Fonterra (in terms of percentage of milk price – actual dollars are not likely to be available). At one stage there was a suggestion that the freeze actually held prices up at the time of a fall in international prices.
ED …you want a living wage and the employers say they cannot afford it … but is not the real problem the demands to spend that infest our society which make the living wages that people already get hard to live on? I used to have a wage and I lived on it but fortunately for me and my family we were not exposed to so much temptation to spend more than I earnt. When I learnt to live within my means credit was not as easy to get as it is now.
As a community we at one time decided that milk in schools was desirable, and it was paid for by the community. It reflected the hard times many families were then going through, and the donation of milk by Fonterra reflects the difficulties many families are now going through.
We know that the cost of petrol is linked to world-wide prices, but the margins taken by the various suppliers are closely monitored. The price of milk prices has similarly been linked to world markets, but we do not seem to have the same scrutiny of the way in which local prices move relative to those world prices.
Fonterra (conveniently for the National/ACT government) agreed to put a freeze on milk prices for the rest of this year. My question was level of resulting cost to Fonterra – if world prices declined it may have merely been a ‘feel good’ gesture tat actually resulted in an increase in profits for the company – and the ‘donation’ of milk now may ot be a significant cost.
Before we start to rely on ‘donations’ from corporations for basic foodstuffs, perhaps it would be a good idea to know a little bit more about the real costs of such generosity – and whatever the cost we cannot rely on such a donation on an ongoing basis.
Good corporate citizens fed by the corporation (milk), educated by the corporation (charter schools), instructed in basic safety by the corporation (road code), jailed by the corporation (private prisons) ….and soon (probably) to be dispensed welfare by the corporation among a number of other things.
At least the state often employed people who wanted to make a social contribution or at least feel that they were doing some good. And they did it for years, building up a wealth of knowledge in the process. But corporates moving into social areas do it by the numbers. Employees aren’t ‘needed’ insofar as everything is reduced to formulae that can be followed by ‘anyone, anywhere in the world’…low paid workers in India, Indonesia etc.
Anyway. Charity is no way to deal with want.
Neither is ‘equal opportunity’ to participate in an economic system that’s principle product is poverty. All that creates is a bullshit division between the ‘deserving poor’ and the ‘deserve to be poor’ while the economic paradigm that creates the mess in the first place is positioned aloof and beyond serious scrutiny (Queue David Shearer and his deafening silence on poverty as a product of our economic system….What did he say again? That the levels of poverty he has seen across the world aren’t ‘necessary’ in NZ. It was along those lines. Nothing about it being unacceptable. Just ‘unnecessary’. Which begs the question as to what level of poverty he would accept as ‘necessary’ in NZ. And why.)
Fair comment Bill, you cant help thinking about Fonterra that they do the charity bit as a loss leader, then once established it gets taxpayer funded. I would rather the buggers just paid fair taxes.
Ain’t a ‘loss leader’ per se. How long before it’s used as a bargaining chip by Fonterra seeking concessions from government? Y’know….”If you don’t give us ‘x’ then the milk disappears…and you know how ‘everyone’ loves us ‘good guys’ and the milk we are ‘giving away’! So feel free to be the ‘bad guys’ losing votes for not bowing to our ‘reasonable’ demands.”
Nah. Can’t see how you can compel a corporate to provide a social good. There is no way that Fonterra is doing this from any new found sense of social responsibility. One way or the other, we will pay. Better to have social provisions provided by the state and paid up front from taxes.
But then they’d just pass on the cost to you and me. Y’know? Market rates and supply and demand and all that tosh?
Why not have the state offer a milk price for milk that smaller producers/farmers who have been squeezed out from the market by Fonterra would find appealing? A price for milk above that offered by Fonterra but below what Fonterra would prefer to on-sell for?
Well, one could always reconstitute a statutory dairy board to cater to smaller dairy farmers left out in the cold 😉
I never have a problem with corporates charging a bit more because the state can simply claw it back via a satisfactory tax system and redistribute it back to society.
My second paragraph only describes what social democracies do with capitalist economies. They tax private profits and wealth and redistribute it back to society, theough the provision of social welfare and social benefits.
Never thought your second part was statist. Problem with simply taxing corporates (apart from the fact they control ‘the game’) is that they will compensate themselves through increasing prices…and going offshore where possible etc.
I’d merely, simply ask that we took their place. See no point in any vertically divided exploitative entities. A multi-national or corporation viewing and treating me as a field nigger is no different to a NZ based company or the guy next door doing the same thing.
It’s nice of Fonterra but it shows why charity isn’t the best method. It would be a lot better if meals were provided as a matter of course at every school. That way the children and our future wouldn’t be reliant upon charity that may be withdrawn.
If society thinks it necessary to compulsorily educate its young and to take them away from home to do so, then I’m afraid that society should pick up the tab for nourishing children while they are away from home.
Expecting parents to provide meals (e.g., lunch) for children who have been compulsorily removed reminds me of coalminers having to pay (the company store) for the oil in the lamps that they used to help them mine the coal.
There’s no such thing as a ‘free lunch’ so, if society wants institutionalised education as a legislated means to subsidise its economy, it has to accept the costs of doing that. It’s only fair.
David Shearer asked to be included on the government poverty committee (a Maori Party initiative). It’s hard to see a more appropriate inclusion amongst our MPs than Shearer, but Key has rejected the request.
I hope Shearer keeps up with this common sense non-partisan approach to politics, and I hope Key widens his inclusive party approach to all parties, utilising the best talent available in parliament.
Shearer scored a king hit on that and showed Key up for the nasty weasel he really is. Not a bad start actually. Eventually the MSM will notice these things.
You will be surprised that I agree completely, chipping away like this will slowly but surely impact on the public perception until there is a tipping point.
Pete, I know we disagree on a lot but I’m really with you on this one. Good on Shearer for asking and shame on Key for the rejection. It’s the most important issue facing this country at present and it needs to be resolved in a non-partisan way
I just think the me-too thing to get hits is fairly risky, especially with something like poverty. Labour need to be leading on issues like this and leaving National in the dust not reacting.
Forcing the issue of a confidence and supply agreement or memorandum of understanding as a means to ensure “working constructively” and to get rid of any doubts of petty politicking will work well for Key if pushed.
There is issue after issue that could be viewed as being ‘beyond party politics’. And if all the parliamentary parties got together on them, then we’d merely be living in a more overt dictatorship than our current arrngements would have us perceive.
We are dictated to by the market. Our parliamentarians gave control of the reserve bank away to international financial interests. So now they (and by extention we) have no control over important economic matters. The present economic arrangements are now accepted as ‘natural’ or ‘god given’ by the main parties in parliament. This wasn’t always the case. But now it is, which is why we have the leader of Labour harking on about how certain levels of poverty are ‘unnecessary’ when he should be saying they (and any other given levels) are unacceptable. Ahh. But God said “Let there be capitalism.” And so there was capitalism.
Anybody got a copy of the first Labour Party constitution?
And have no access to resources that (surely) rightfully belong to all of us. So, yeah. Assume the position of a Chinese peasant. No access to land that’s been appropriated. So no access to food that’s been produced. (You aware how many times a domestic population has experienced famine amid ‘food a-plenty’?) No access to health care. No access to schooling. And that’s before we start on the end products of material resources, such as….well, everything.
We’re in a bind on some things, but we choose to support many ‘value’-added markets that are totally unneccesary for us, many simply get sucked into consumerism.
There are only separate ‘markets’ where you are talking about discreet products or services. But all products and services are subject to market logics/rules. Ie, the particular economy we live in. So, you either bow to it (the rules and logics…become a wage slave or a slave master) to get access to anything the economy produces or distributes, or…expire.
You don’t want to buy an i-phone (assuming you’re ‘economically viable’ enough to make the choice)? Big deal. You want to buy ‘eco’ and ‘sustainable’ or consciensiously? Assuming you have the economic ‘viability’ to make the choice. Again. Big deal.
The overwhelming majority are on the margins and in need. (How many of the 7 billion of us are desperate for food or reticulated water/sewerage or even the most basic of goods?) The choices of the affluent ‘feel good’ consumers in the ‘west’ mean nothing in the scheme of things from a market perspective. Could say they simply offer new opportunities for market expansion.
The worm was 2002, and it was more the media attention that ensued that benefitted him.
I think he’s being quite sensible about part sales of assets.
It was a major National plank, their vote increased. It was Labour’s major campaign obsession and their vote dropped significantly. – the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti.
“On this basis it would be possible to make a statistical case against any policy, and no government would have a mandate to do anything.”
That is nothing to do with your point to which logix was responding.
You clearly have no answer to the points made against you re their “vote increasing” and the only thing you can do to save face is to go off topic. Pathetic.
It was you who started with the statistical argument; now you want to call it a futility when it’s been shown it doesn’t necessarily work the way you thought.
Maybe you would be on stronger grounds if instead of making appeals to essentially weak and spurious arguments about ‘mandates’… you were able to make a positive case for why you think UF should support National’s asset sales programs.
Especially in the light of Peter Dunne stating that “in principle UF was against asset sales”.
There’s another principle that the largest party and partner has the most weight in a coalition. I’m sure Labour would have claimed that with CGT if they had put togtether a coalition.
Peter Dunne and United Future made it clear before the election, including:
New Zealanders are not definitively pro-asset sales, but under certain conditions, it is no longer the bogeyman issue that Labour would have you believe.
UnitedFuture’s role as a support partner is not just to contribute its own policies, but to help keep a government to a reasonable, centrist path.
Right then Pete, it is impliedly agreed by your dropping of the original point and refusal to engage further on it that, contrary to your claim above, the electorate did not in fact increase its vote for parties supporting asset sales (“the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti”). The electorate in support dropped and the electorate in anti increased.
Not that that matters to a piece of malleable plasticine like Dunne – he has no scruples and just make up shit as he goes along to fit with whoever is in power.
The trouble with this discussion and I’m not sure where to interject is that it makes excellent sense to sell assets if the money is going into other assets with greater priority. There are people all around doing that at this moment, or have, or will in the future. This is the foolish Black and White stance of the left throughout the discussions. Peter Dunne I gather has gone part of the way in wanting it to be ‘law’ that the 51% remains in government hands, ignoring the potential for future governments to change the law. My position from way back on this forum was for any sales to be held by NZders and I cannot see why special shares with this limitation could not be created … they would sell for less than open shares but better that than selling the family silver overseas to the detriment of our and future generations. So the left can rant and rage and talk about majorities against the emotive “selling the family silver” which ignores the fact that Kiwis are doing that every day to their benefit, and loss, depending on their skill in the market place.
I prefer that there be no asset sales and funding for the projected ventures be found from taxation on those who can afford it. My stance in my first paragraph is a second less desirable option but at least the shares are held by Kiwis directly rather than indirectly as citizens through the government.
…is that it makes excellent sense to sell assets if the money is going into other assets with greater priority.
It makes no sense at all*. Selling existing assets won’t free up any resources at all and so selling them just makes us poorer as we’ll then have to divert some of our available resources to paying rent for our electricity. If something else needs to be done then we need to budget it from available resources.
* Admittedly, that applies to our entire socio-economic system.
Examples please, of extreme things National was going to do, but Dunne has prevented.
So far it’s simply been well signposted coalition negotiations, no surprises. Otherwise it’s far too soon to tell. See what happens over the next two and a half years.
UF are in a powerful positione. National need either Maori Party support, or they need Dunne’s vote. That means a major potential to moderate.
This morning I proposed that the party has an online means of discussing and debating issues within the party to help establish party positions on future issues. He supports doing that.
That means UF members can be a part of decision making and can be in a position to influence the deciding vote.
That’s what’s being put in place to help moderate government.
I’m sure Labour would have claimed that with CGT if they had put togtether a coalition.
Nope, all other parties on the left support a CGT as well. In this government only National and Act supposedly support selling state assets. UF said they didn’t – until after the election.
UnitedFuture’s role as a support partner is not just to contribute its own policies, but to help keep a government to a reasonable, centrist path.
Which, of course, is what they won’t be doing when they sell our assets.
Way way way less than half of the voting population voted for a party promoting asset sales.
Just over 1/3 of eligible voters went for National.
But given Peter Dunne’s duplicity here we can’t really expect Pete to be much more than a kowtowing apologist for UF. Heaven forbid he’s had long enough to grow a spine but its probably not going to happen at this late stage of life.
vto … this is a parliament not a referendum and National is supported for better or worse by more people than are agin it, or in the previous election … the majority has dropped becuase people gave up on ACT and United Future and put their votes elsewhere but they still have a majority. If NZFirst sit on the fence then it is safe to say that National have a considerably larger majority over the collective left than is shown by the number of seats they are ‘sure’ of.
I understand that jcuknz. My point was in response to one of Pete’s less than accurate assertions, this time concerning the amount of support in the electorate for selling state assets.
How muxch support do you think there is in the electorate for National’s asset proposals. All I’ve seen is a Herald online poll that showed a majority were ok with it, and the election result which is complex but certainly didn’t punish National.
I’m not talking about the black/white polls that didn’t address National’s plan.
Pete, my posts were in reply to your original “It was a major National plank, their vote increased. It was Labour’s major campaign obsession and their vote dropped significantly. – the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti.”
It has been pointed out in various posts by me and others around this mini-thread that in fact their vote did drop. And the anti did in fact increase.
The right’s overall vote dropped.
The proportion of the electorate that voted for a party proposing asset sales dropped. And the proportion of the electorate that voted for parties opposing asset sales increased.
Your base proposition was wrong. In evidence, see all those posts and linked stats etc. Simple and specific point.
Anti asset sales (grossly misrepresented) was Labour’s major campaign theme, especially in the last week, and their end result was dismal.
You can hardly claim that votes for Maori Party, Greens, NZ First and Mana were due to their policies or stances on asset sales. Partially perhaps, but that’s true of all parties and policies.
Greens did not have asset sales as a priority, they were very disciplined on repeating and promoting their three main policies which had nothing to do with asset sales.
And the way our democracy works this is all pointless argument, because National have the numbers that are needed.
Pete, slipping and sliding is just slipping and sliding. It was a very specific point you made and very specific replies that I and others made. You enjoy the contortionist approach clearly but it just weakens your parade of points as time goes on. I should know, I have contorted and twisted many a time myself.
The poll was specifically about National’s proposal, Pete. And calling it asset sales is of course accurate. ‘Mixed ownership partial sales’ are just weasel words to cover up the truth.
Speaking of weasels, I note only 27% are in favour, which makes asset sales 25 times more popular than United Follicles.
Its from Digipoll in July this year. Who’s asset sales program do you think prompted it, if not National’s? You asked for some evidence at 7.02, Pete, and there it is. Stop dissembling and accept that National don’t have a mandate; never did, never will.
And bugger Auntie, while you’re at it. Online polls are worth even less than your Quisling quibbling.
The polls which make even a vague attempt at accuracy and weighting were surveying people about the asset sales of 15-20 years ago, not the National policy in the headlines at the time
The Herald online poll (for which you supply no link) is a joke.
ShonKey is enjoying his little post election sugar rush, indicated by that revealing lip curl. But he also knows this is as good as it gets and must be pining for Hawaii. [Deleted… a specific assertion that needs evidence. RL] in the new tory intake, the MP for Northland, ex copper Sabin, so there is likely to be opportunity for scandal and by-elections.
Agree, good tactic to make poverty cross party and to nail dunnycan for his usual duplicitousness on asset sales. Milk? well who wants to drink it really, but certainly good for some kids, fruit would be better. Free milk: benefits some children–good, let Dairy Corporate off the hook for price gouging–no so good.
Not going to name names here. I can provide back up by email. Politicians personal lives should not necessarily count unless they are contrary to publicy expressed views or subject to prosecution imo.
With Richard Worth we still don’t know. My general point is with the Nats slim majority in the house such matters assume more importance.
[Fair point TM. I’m concious that the law, and community sentiment, around internet media such as The Standard is shifting towards requiring an improved level of accountability. For better or worse the old Wild West days of the internet are fading. Part of me will miss them. But we are here to stay and adapt we must.
In this instance you made a specific assertion, potentially damaging and actionable (however unlikely), about a specific individual. If there was open domain evidence to back it I’d see no problem with repeating it… but until then I’d prefer to see The Standard take a precautionary approach. It’s a fine line, because at the same time I’m very loath to be seen shutting down legitimate discussion.
And in general I fully agree that politicians’ private lives are off limits unless there is gross hypocrisy or there is an element that potentially compromises their official role. Neither of those two conditions have been established….RL]
I think I watched the most vacuuous news report I’ve ever seen last night. It was so pointless I forget the details, just that I was startled it was even on the news. The general outline went something like this:
“In NZ somewhere something almost happened today and we were just about to comment on it, saying something about how it would be a shame. Some of the people we interviewed declined to comment, as nothing had yet happened. Next up, we go to somebody talking about something that could happen at some time soon.”
I think it was one news, Simon Dallow reading. Reporting the news …before it happens.
Read in The Press this am that the University of Canterbury has given Ruth Richardson an honorary Doctorate for her work as Minister of Finance in the 1990’s.
Unbelievable and disgraceful that the creator of the Mother of all Budgets, who trashed huge numbers of poor NZers, is so rewarded. She began a decade of poverty, the remnants of which are still with us.
George Monbiot has published a very good article this week on the problem with MSM reporting in the UK. With some local adaptions it could be applied to the NZ or US media:
Have we ever been so badly served by the press? We face multiple crises – economic, environmental, democratic – but most newspapers represent them neither clearly nor fairly. The industry that should reveal and expose instead tries to contain and baffle, to foil questions and shut down dissent.
[…]
Not a day passes in which rightwing papers fail to call for stiffer regulation of protesters, problem families, petty criminals or antisocial teenagers. And every day they call for laxer regulation of business: cutting the “red tape” that prevents companies and banks from using the planet as their dustbin, killing workers or tanking the economy.
And he draws an interesting distinction between the economic and political elite, the ways they can support or challenge each other.
These papers recognise the existence of an oppressive elite, but they frame it purely in political terms. The political elite becomes oppressive when it tries to curb the powers and freedoms of the economic elite.
And Monbiot identifies a general approach to challenge these elites:
As the theologian Walter Wink shows, challenging a dominant system requires a three-part process: naming the powers, unmasking the powers, engaging the powers. Their white noise of distraction and obfuscation is the means by which the newspapers prevent this process from beginning. They mislead us about the sources of our oppression, misrepresent our democratic choices, demonise those who try to challenge the 1%.
[…]
It’s not just Murdoch and his network of sleazy crooks: our political system has been corrupted by the entire corporate media. Defending ourselves from the economic elite means naming and unmasking the power of the press.
And there’s a fully referenced version of the article on Monbiot’s website:
Trans-Tasman announces Gerry Brownlee as pollie of the year……
As Minister in charge of directing recovery from the devastating earthquakes in Canterbury, and faced almost daily with hard decisions, Brownlee has shown his true mettle. He has stood four-square behind the Govt’s determination to rebuild Christchurch, and has given back hope to those whose homes and businesses were torn apart. The job is far from done and Brownlee is expected to remain in charge for at least a year as the process of rebuilding gathers pace. What may have exercised a strong influence on the outcome of the election, as National harvested majorities in onetime Labour fiefdoms in Christchurch, was the conviction the Govt totally supported the city, transmitted through the Brownlee personality, and built around the extraordinary generosity in the payouts to citizens whose homes had been destroyed.
– Source
What is Trans-Tasman, and why are they so limited in their perception? Goff was a far better speaker in the House than Key – eg the attempted jump from the gallery & Key’s throat-slitting antics. Turei speaks more passionately and significantly than Norman. Many opposition MPs performed better in the House, and out of it, than National MPs, who need nodding cheerleaders behind them to give a semblance of good performances.
I don’t believe they gave any Labour MP higher than a 6.5. Russell Norman deservedly gets an 8, but I would’ve thought Cunliffe could’ve got 7.0-7.5.
I also don’t understand why they list incoming MPs and then say N/A next to them because they weren’t in the house. How about you actually rate the people that were in the house who left. Simon Power is an obviously missing cabinet member who deserved ranking.
America’s top bosses enjoyed pay hikes of between 27 and 40% last year, according to the largest survey of US CEO pay. The dramatic bounceback comes as the latest government figures show wages for the majority of Americans are failing to keep up with inflation.
After a year of static pay CEO incomes have made up for lost time, with pay out-stripping share values, while wage-earners are still losing money (inflation-adjusted). Top earners – the healthcare industry.
You’d think they’d be embarrassed, what with OWS, high unemployment and all going on.
You’d think they’d be embarrassed, what with OWR, high unemployment and all going on.
They are the deserving wealthy, nothing to be embarrassed about there. If you’re lucky and patiently wait they might even give you drippings from their table.
“I have one thing to say to you,” she told the handlers, who asked if she supported working families in New York, “I have had one conversation with Bill Ruprecht [the CEO of Sotheby’s] about this, and I told him that if he accedes to any of your demands, I will resign immediately.”
No that’s why they are paid so much… a complete inability to be embarrassed by anything.
Ordinary people have scruples, principles, empathy and a sense of shame when they do bad things. As a result they have trouble sleeping nights and … well that means they can’t hack it as a CEO.
No these Masters of the Universe are a very special breed indeed. That’s why they deserve so much more…
You are exactly right mr logix. Some too many moons ago when touching on this world that exact sentiment was expressed by none other than Sir Michael Fay, that great New Zealander, in describing the attributes required to work for Fay Richwhite, that great New Zealand business.
It was exactly that what you say.
This is the world of John Key’s experience to a tee.
Most rural National voters won’t panic at the thought of a blue-green coalition. They’ll trust National to keep the Greens firmly in their correct place.
Further, the seachange of environmental awareness sweeping society is also moving rural and provincial areas. A blue-green coalition would be an expected evolution, not a surprising one.
Last but not least – National voters are not going to know whether the NATs sign up with the Greens until *after* the next election. And both Key and Russel were clearly hand signalling this campaign that it could conceivably happen.
The electorate has been warmed up for the possibility and did not reject the idea.
And always, over National’s shoulder looms the spectre of New Zealand’s second largest party. No, not Labour, but the party of the one million Kiwis who chose not to vote at all in 2011. It is among these voters that the missionaries of the opposition parties will be moving ceaselessly for the next three years: cajoling them; flattering them; and wooing them back to the ballot-box.
How many of them, I wonder, are National voters?
That is where the parties of the left should be focusing for new votes.
“That is where the parties of the left should be focusing for new votes.”
Exactly.
With diminishing voter turnout across the Western world, simply trying to chase the votes of those who do vote in essence means moving further and further to the right, in economic terms.
Voting behaviour is inversely correlated with wealth (roughly).
Being ‘electable’ then becomes a matter of the extent to which a party represents the interests of a proportionately wealthier and wealthier sub-set of the population. In effect, the top 1%, 5%, 10% and 20% (in income and wealth terms) of the population are increasingly becoming a greater and greater proportion of those who vote.
Thursday 15 December 2011
Will Kathryn Ryan risk upsetting Richie McCaw?
This morning I learned that, after the 10 o’clock news, Radio New Zealand National host Kathryn Ryan will interview All Black captain Richie McCaw “about his very big year.”
I took the opportunity to remind her that she is a journalist, not a cheerleader, and sent her the following e-mail….
Please ask Richie McCaw to comment on this
9:25 AM
Dear Kathryn,
Could you please ask Richie McCaw to comment on the performance (or non-performance) of referee Andre Joubert in the World Cup final? He will be aware of the deep anger and resentment in France over the refusal of Mr. Joubert to penalize even the most flagrant offences by the All Blacks in the final. Many New Zealand fans share the disquiet and concern of the French fans, and feel that Mr. Joubert’s performance (or lack of performance) has seriously devalued the win in the eyes of the world.
Please put this to him and don’t let it be just another anodyne festival of congratulations.
Yours in sport, Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
P.S. In case you have not seen it, Kathryn, here is a clear breakdown of Joubert’s failure to do his job…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1XBqetaCfgo
—————————————————————————
Ms. Ryan’s producer replied with alacrity….
9:41 AM
Hi Morrissey,
Sorry but the interview was recorded a couple of days ago. I wasn’t part of it, so not sure if she raised this issue or not.
Best wishes,
Clare Sziranyi
Producer
—————————————————————————-
So it looks like we missed out by a couple of days.
And the question remains: who will be the first New Zealand reporter to do his or her job and start asking a few awkward questions?
If French have issues with McCaw’s dodgy play and the the ref is not paying attention they could always resort to their traditional means of protest – eye gouging or testicle wrenching.
Har har Voice. Regardless of the real world cup indeed being played with a round ball I was not unhappy with the RWC final result.
The team with the best form in the tournament won, it was not the predicted 25 point plus drubbing, AB fans got put throught the wringer till the whistle and the slightly homo erotic grunting match that is close quarters rugby was on Hi res display for bemused viewers world wide.
Statistics guru Stefan Yelas tipped the All Blacks by 25 points
Stefan Yelas? On what basis did he make his brilliant prognostication? And did he pick Brazil to lose the 2002 World Cup final by 5 goals? It would have made as much sense.
… as did hundreds of other internet and media sources
Hundreds? I don’t think so. Could you back that up with a few examples? (Stefan Yelas is not credible, by the way.)
… not to mention talk back
So why did you mention the source of the most dire and ill-informed commentary in the whole of New Zealand? And their callers are almost as bad.
My local had a ‘pick the score’ comp, Morrisey, and I actually came second, picking a 5 pt margin. Gwyn, our resident Welshman picked one point. The vast majority of the pub had the AB’s caning France, presumably because we comfortably beat them in the earlier round.
FWIW, I got roundly abused for pointing out that McCaw should have been sent off for deliberately kneeing a French player in the back of the head in a maul. Thugby, huh!
My local had a ‘pick the score’ comp, Morrisey, and I actually came second, picking a 5 pt margin. Gwyn, our resident Welshman picked one point.
I hereby proffer maximum respect to you and Gwyn, my friend!
The vast majority of the pub had the AB’s caning France, presumably because we comfortably beat them in the earlier round.
I wonder if any of them had noticed that the French did not actually make more than a token effort in that match. In fact, it looked like they were trying to lose. The drunkards in the pub probably never factored that into their complicated and sophisticated reckonings.
If French have issues with McCaw’s dodgy play and the the ref is not paying attention they could always resort to their traditional means of protest – eye gouging or testicle wrenching.
It was always going to be touch and go if the interview was going to another anodyne one with a celeb jock and an ignoramus on rugby in different corners.
On the question I too pondered the refing of the final….Gee it was great to see the ABs play up to what the ref would tolerate, the same way the Frogs did to us 4 years prior. Watched the game again, the overall impression was at half time NZ should have been out of sight, and the ref had let the Frogs away with too many offenses. In the second half the ABs got away with it….could not help thinking that as in Cardiff 4 years prior the losing team only had to drop a goal.
Complaints against McCaw….he pushes the boundaries the same way as George Smith did and Pocock does for the Ockers, and Burger does for the Boks. Good on them all.
It was always going to be touch and go if the interview was going to another anodyne one with a celeb jock and an ignoramus on rugby in different corners.
Is Kathryn Ryan an ignoramus on rugby? I think she knows just as much, and certainly talks more intelligently about the game than virtually any specialist rugby commentator.
Gee it was great to see the ABs play up to what the ref would tolerate,
The All Blacks consistently cheated, under the eyes of the referee. Possibly the most egregious instance was Jerome Kaino, off his feet, offside and throwing the ball forward from a ruck. And Joubert did not penalize him.
… the same way the Frogs did to us 4 years prior.
There is no serious comparison between the two games.
Watched the game again, the overall impression was at half time NZ should have been out of sight, and the ref had let the Frogs away with too many offenses.
You need to watch it again, this time when you are sober. What on earth gave you the feeling NZ “should have been out of sight”? Or were you just referring to their systematic cheating?
Complaints against McCaw…
The cheating was systematic and carried out by nearly every All Black forward. The complaints are not against the All Blacks but against the man who did not do his job—the (non-) referee, Craig Joubert.
[…]
she pursued an active sports career until journalism took over.
That explains such a lot! Before I started work in October, I used to listen to her programme, and do my best to ignore her on Fridays, when she would bore for her country about thugby or “grigger” (cricket) as so many NZ men pronounce it.. YAWN! 😀
I’ve always assumed she was a spinster, and although she’s younger than I am, she fits the pattern of the older unmarried woman who is a sports obsessive! I don’t know why, but it’s how some women are…
Bloody hell Morrissey, am I touching a raw nerve or what?
From my viewpoint, bearing many overlays of scars from sprigs, having been the most blatant cheat and offside flanker ever (that’s my claim, those unfortunates who played with and against me would confirm constant pushing the envelope) there is only one thing to say: “get real”.
Do whatever you can get away with, always. Only winners win, and most of the time they are cheating better than the others.
Yeah, smart move by Key allowing gangs, cults and commie Chinese corporations the
decision of what to teach and pay our taxes to them to.
And explains why ACT didn’t want to talk about their flawed charter schools themes.
We’re not the US, with a history of dealing with gangs, cults and Chinese communism,
we’re a small country easily swamped by money.
On the election though, I’m awestruck that every single National voter not only got
out and voted but turned their back on a tax cut!
Not only that, they also ignored the game changer of a capital gains tax!
And let’s not forget the GST off fresh food.
I was expecting some spliting, even if it was stay at home and not voting.
But for Labour voters (outside of S.Auckland) abstaining, now thats understandable
with the wall to wall Key will msm win win win.
Maybe it was because the MSM and Labour failed to cover the Labour platform…
…how much was that a Labour and how much was that MSM.
Monday there was a Housing crisis story in the news, and the old affordability stat
was brought up.
Six time mediain wage or something, but that’s not reality, many home owners
actually are foreigners who earn much more that the median overseas.
So to say housing is unaffordable is both true and false, yes its unaffordable for
medium Keywees, but its quite affordable, even rather cheaper than housing overseas.
Anyhow Key is working on this, his policies force even more to move overseas in
order to afford a kiwi home in the future, meaning housings may even rise further as
the proportion of medium Keywees drop.
But just go back, think about that, every National voter thought CGT was bad, enough
to a bean they got out and voted.
Nobody in tise suppose business party block thought redressing the investment bubble
was good for them.
WTF! There s clearly a block of NZ who are very happy selling down NZ to foreigners
and locking in primary production as the growth sector.
Why? Well let’s take a guess.
If they make money off (or aspire to) renting a second home out, if they are nicely
turning over their small businesses (or aspire to) without the stress of more taxes
(unlike their foriegn competitors) they can live with the poor skill employees and
having to pay lower wages.
Basically why change the game and have a world class economy when they are already
doing nicely thank you very much.
And is this every likely to change given that the world will need our food, milk,
meat…
So it wasn’t just the same old same old fireside chat about the economy needing more
investment that never got implemented, it was just we never wanted to become
anything more than a backwater.
Free-trade means we are not a back water though.
Is Morgan is just another prophet to be revered and then ignored?
Expect more downgrades as the world wakes up to the persist parasite on the NZ
economy, that the private debt Kiwi’s carry doesn’t just mean a higher risk premium,
but its assisted by a governmental tax system that allows for a quicker turnover of
risk which allows a high burden of debt to be held.
NZ capacity for debt is higher thanks to the weaken tax system, but as debt requires
collateral, with NZ consistently selling off its private collateral, NZ capacity to
take on debt and its actual ability to pay down debt are heading in opposite
directions.
This is hidden in the economy but is just as threatening as a bank over geared, the
fact our government will not take measures to strengthen the tax system, and the
bulk of tax parasites are in the majority (or crowd the media concourse to deliver
do nothing a second term), then we’re headin for a wall without brakes.
The wall being cheaper food! As oil inputs into farming become prohibitive, the
switch to lower energy inputs will mean that our ability to add value is crushed on
both supply and demand. So those who were pocketing the future NZ food production
dividend aren’t considering the loss of demand (Eu, US consumers with spare cash)
and the likely food avalance as the world goes on to producing mass food with cheap
energy inputs. i.e. if we lock into high fuel input dairying then wont have a
dividend to keep the bankers of today happy. Countries that create cheap fuel input
foods in bulk will have the capacity to lower the price of the high fuel input
foods, and thus out bid NZ.
So we get back to the crisis, our hollowed out tax system that affords us too little
investment in growing the economy and keeps a parasite class over paid alive
swallowing debt and eating up collateral.
All it takes is two National Mps to put Nation before party and revolt against the bling government of Key that can spin any turd but makes no core changes. Can we afford three more years on spin cycle?
We need a Labour leader who says to debt addicted middle Nz that rigging the tax system to favor the few only makes it harder to kick the habit.
You won’t get that with Labour, period. They aren’t a left wing party. They reckon they’re centre left, which is a bit like being a little bit pregnant or slightly dead. Centre left is Right, but at a slow speed. I’m pretty sure it is not possible to accomodate the middle classes in the manner they are accustomed and install a socialist perspective in NZ, but I’m happy to hear from someone who thinks they know how. Labour try and try but keep moving right because of it. Then they make a small adjustment to “ease poverty” or “improve healthcare”. Last election campaign offered an adjustment phase. It never lasts though.
Allowing mankind to continue to dominate and procreate beyond the earths capabilities is a sure way to ensure our mutual destruction.
It’s a no brainer really… either the worlds population stabilizes at seven billion and we work towards reducing the problems we already face or we continue to reproduce until resources fail to sustain us…
I suspect you’re right Draco T Bastard. Mainly because capitalism has created such a huge disparity between the haves and have nots, which does not allow developing countries to progress without further environmental destruction.
which does not allow developing countries to progress without further environmental destruction.
Slightly oxymoronic?
‘Progress’ in the GDP/capitalist sense requires environmental destruction. Any modern economy is based on cities, roads, mineral use, power dams and coal stations. Fields cleared of native forests and cars, lots of cars.
I wasn’t extolling ‘progress’ in terms of the defunct capitalist idea of the word.
There are ways developed countries can help non-developed countries to grow without undertaking the same huge environmental destruction that gave rise to their “progress”. Although strictly speaking, no progress can be achieved without some form of environmental destruction, the damage can be greatly reduced… particularly with green technology.
Ensuring developing countries have access to green tech advancements so that they develop into a sustainable economy is the issue. Only through an egalitarian worldwide approach can we truly progress and hope to survive climate change.
Currently developed countries are promoting old unsustainable technology for themselves and developing countries because we’re trapped under the heel of free market capitalism. Their idea of progress almost always comes at the expense of others
Perpetual economic growth is neither possible nor desirable. Growth, especially in wealthy nations, is already causing more problems than it solves.
Recession isn’t sustainable or healthy either. The positive, sustainable alternative is a steady state economy.
Seven billion is simply never going to happen!
Just to annoy the angry men who attack, I will say that I am pretty much in agreement with Garth George. It’s true, I am, I have to say so, and that he’s a good guy. He cares about people, and not just their physical jerks and satisfactions!
Only just came on this exchange. As someone who read here for years before commenting, I have (possibly had) a lot of respect for your views and those of the Jackal, but have also had a similar respect for those of Vicky32. While I am not a supporter of Garth George, Vicky has a right to her views , so I’m am disappointed at the personal attacks on her.
I have respect for people who are reasonably well informed and/or willing to learn. Vicky32 does have some insightful ideas but when it comes to overpopulation and Garth George her mind is closed thus she loses any respect that she may have got from the few insightful ideas she has.
thus she loses any respect that she may have got from the few insightful ideas she has.
Thanks a bunch, DtB… I by contrast, usually respect your views – but obviously I can’t respect your snide abuse of me! I have a “few” insightful ideas, do I? How very generous of you! Garth George is an honest and kind person, although for reasons that don’t reflect well on Standardistas, he’s a hate figure here.
“Population control” is often a euphemism. Do you believe everyone has the right to life, or do you prioritise people like you, white, educated males (even if only in your secret heart?) The problem isn’t population growth, it’s the system by which we apportion the world’s wealth. Each one of us in New Zealand, consumes much more than any given 3rd world person. If you choose to be childless, fine, that’s up to you. If you don’t, then recognise your contribution to population growth. But you have no right to say that a woman in Africa, or PNG or Samoa or even Whangarei, should stop at 1 child, simply because we may (and no one is really sure) have hit 7 billion. Do me a favour. Look at Fred Pearce’s articles in New Scientist over the past few years – he’s been waxing testerical, because population growth is slowing, and has halted in the developed world. Yet, he and others are still deeply distressed because women in Malawi or the Sudan have 5 children (many of whom won’t survive to adulthood.)
I will say that I am pretty much in agreement with Garth George.
That’s because you’re as stupid.
Thank you DTB for doing exactly as I predicted! 😀 I wondered which angry man it would be, and it seems it’s you first – gthen one by one, the others…Oh and Jackal, it’s she thank you very much! If I read your blog, and I do, then you should do me the courtesy of reading (not skimming) my posts…
Colonial Viper, the late 70s were hell on earth. Just saying.
I loathe and distrust the Greens. They’re all middle-class kiddies, and whether they prioritise gay marriage, abortion and euthanasia over real left issues, remains to be seen. One doesn’t have to have one’s head in the evil 1970s, to oppose carefree murder… as for gay marriage, why is this even an issue? Why do all gay people want to advertise their orientation? We straight people generally don’t go around announcing that we’re not gay.
Jackal, I thought you’d have been happy that George mentions your issue, alcohol! That’s what I mean by saying that he cares about people – which he does. That’s why he isn’t happy with euthanasia and wholesale abortion… Simple really!
Well it is full steam ahead with (partial) asset sales with Might River confirmed as the first of the blocks just a day after the swearing in of the new government:
Part time work ‘good for mothers’ states the headline of the article taken from the telegraph group ltd in today’s herald. A neat little headline that conveys the impression that this is a simple issue with an obvious solution, get those lazy mothers working dammit, it’s good for them after all.
But is that really the conclusion or the main thrust of the study in the journal of family psychology that prompted the article?
Part time work for the mothers studied did help reduce the incidence of depression and also, or as a result, the mothers appeared more sensitive with their children and were more able or more inclined to provide ‘learning opportunities such as taking children on outings and providing lessons or membership of clubs’ – of course lessons and clubs are a great way to keep kids looked after while you are working too…
A crucial piece of information has not been included in the original telegraph article or has not been sought out by the Herald – namely the age of the children when the mothers went to work. Given all the debate in NZ about this issue it is exceedingly poor journalism to not provide some this context and to help make this information useful to the discussion here.
One of the most important conclusions of the study was the criticism of employers:
“employers tend to use part time work as a money saving strategy and to consider part time employees as both expendable and not worthy of investment through the provision of benefits, training, or career advancement. Since part time work seems to contribute to the strength and wellbeing of families it would be beneficial to employers [and to the employee] if they provide finge benefits, at least proportionally, to part time employees as well as offer them career ladders through training and promotion.”
The headline should perhaps have been ’employers hurt families by exploiting part time workers’…It is clear that part time work for mothers is not a miracle cure all, it can be helpful but these benefits should not come at the cost of being treated as a disposable commodity by employers – to do so limits the potential value of the work to both mother, baby and employer.
The highly emotive and factually unsupported ‘breeding for a business’ retoric here in NZ shifts all the responsibility and all of the blame onto the mothers. This study shows the inherent flaw in this politically expedient but morally reprehensible dog whistle. The fact that the herald trumpets the myopic and misleading ‘part time work good for mothers’ speaks volumes about it clear agenda – not to inform or enlighten but as an apologist for the ‘work will set you free’ (but dont expect us to help or reward you fairly) mentality of the National party and is big business cohorts.
Just received this email from a friend – I didn’t even know this was going on! News blackout?
Over 100 workers have been locked out from the CPM Rangitikei plant for 2 months by a vicious employer trying to starve them into accepting huge pay cuts and unacceptable changes to terms and conditions. Their union, the New Zealand Meatworkers Union, has requested the Employment Relations Authority to provide facilitation services.
To learn more and to send a message to ANZCO Foods urging the company to enter into facilitation and demanding an end to the lockout and a return to the bargaining table, click here.
Ron Oswald
General Secretary, IUF
International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers’ Associations (IUF)
Banker’s Carbon Tax in context — runaway climate change unstoppable
Dramatic and unprecedented plumes of methane – a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide – have been seen bubbling to the surface of the Arctic Ocean by scientists undertaking an extensive survey of the region.
The scale and volume of the methane release has astonished the head of the Russian research team who has been surveying the seabed of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf off northern Russia for nearly 20 years.
[lprent: I cut that back to what it should have been for both reading and legal. Next one that I have to do will get trashed. Next one I see that is copyright material that can cause us legal problems will result in a ban. ]
Actually it’s the comment thread below the article that’s as equally chilling as the article.
Because there is every possibility that this is the ‘methane catastrophe’ that has been long feared. I know the deniers called it ‘scaremongering’… but here is a research vessel reporting exactly what was predicted. If this is confirmed, and there is little reason to think it won’t be, then all hell has probably just broken loose…slowly.
news today.
kweewee says mighty river power first to go.
thank god kweewee is a nitwit and the next Labour government wil have to go to the trouble of reversing all their right wing nutbar policies.
how much will kweewee be worth then after the invisble hand of the market gives him and his cronies a big fat slap?
Last week, Transport minister Steven Joyce said the cost of the oil cleanup from the Rena disaster hit $19.5 million… and he expects the cost, and the salvage operation, to continue for some months.
Over 350 tonnes of oil as well as other toxic chemicals spilled into the ocean from the grounded cargo ship Rena… in my opinion $19.5 million a vastly inaccurate figure concerning the true cost of the cleanup and salvage operation.
[…]
The National Government failed to increase legal liability under the Bunker Convention, and liability for the Rena disaster is capped at $12.1 million. That means the New Zealand taxpayer will pay for any costs over and above that comparatively tiny cap.
Based on the Institute for Maritime Studies costings for oil spills from ships… that’s potentially NZ$248 million above the liability cap. You can therefore see why Steven Joyce would want to minimize the cost, being that it was National’s decision to ignore any proper legislation, even when they were alerted to the issue on many occasions…
Has anyone read Garth George today ,He is sounding like a disciple of the Charter school followers. I’m also wondering just where he gets his extreem Right-wing views from . George’s dangerous ideas are just what we will be having if ACT/ National are allowed to bring in Charter Schools.
I noted this morning that an iconic NZer passed away. Carmen was 75 years old and I can recall seeing her in Cuba Mall around 1970. Carmen will be known for being the keeper of secrets, being an entertainer, her political ambitions, and most of all for breaking down sexual stereo type thinking which liberated marginalised against groups.
Peter Dunne this evening on selling Mighty River Power and the two main issues – first, keeping the shares in NZ hands and second, keeping the 51% “control”. He waffles interminably with absolutely zero substance. We are supposed to rely on Dunne’s “I think …” etc. No facts. No legislation. No belts and braces. Just Dunne’s weak-arsed opinion and warming words. Tell me people – how far, in the world of commerce, do opinion and warming words go when there are no belts and braces??
Answer: nowhere. In fact, worse than that because if in commerce one goes into a deal with just opinion and warming words you get laughed at (out of sight) and go backwards. Fast.
The question is how the markets are going to perform?
Volatility in the markets is a given: fluctuations result in both buyers and sellers and one of the driving factors behind this transaction is imbalances in wealth. We know that there are vast sums of international capital sloshing around looking for a secure home and that a reckoning is coming.
My concern is will investers be subjected to a roller coaster ride of fluctuating share price that has more to do with a market that is in it’s death throes than it does with the inherent value of the asset?
Those best positioned to weather such a storm are those with very deep and very patient pockets – these are not qualities that the majority of ‘mum and dad’ investors possess – the result is a transfer of ownership, on terms which may not be anything at all like a lolly scramble.
Why on earth anyone would even consider ‘floating’ an asset on the share market at this time is beyond me. There is so much funny money out there/ structural problems in the global economy that only a fool would expose a tangible essential asset like power generation to the uncertainty of abstract valuation via the markets.
You would think that after 27 years in Parliament that Dunne may have learnt something about politics. The man is clueless as he can single handedly stop the sale of strategic assets and he is so gullible to trust Key.
Shame on you Dunne and I would say this to your face next time I am in Johnsonville.
For Nick Smith and Tony Ryall to again claim Treasury has confirmed that assets will remain in New Zealand hands is complete and unadulterated bullshit!
Can’t confirm it and cannot find it but someone told me that the banksters are going to get a 100 mil for their part in selling Mighty River Power. Does anybody know about this and is it the true?
Likely to be more than that. Here’s the relevant questions for aural answers:
Hon David Cunliffe: Can the acting Minister tell the House how much he expects that middlemen and ticket-clippers would cost the taxpayer if the Minister’s privatisation agenda goes ahead, given that in the Contact Energy sale alone, $32 million of taxpayers’ money was spent in fees to consultants and bankers, and that officials yesterday told the Finance and Expenditure Committee that they estimate sales costs to be in the range of 2 to 5 percent of the asset value, which would be between $136 million and $340 million?
Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I disagree with the member’s question because it is not a privatisation agenda. Again, in relation to the matter of fees, I point out that I was talking to the Minister for Tertiary Education the other day and the amounts the member refers to have been wasted many times by the previous Government in the tertiary education area.
Thanks for that, that is utter disgusting. I can see all Key’s spiv mates fighting over themselves to make sure they are the line for the hand outs. Bloody arse holes.
Lazards Bank in Sydney is apparently getting 100 mil, funny that, why is an Aussie branch affiliate of Goldman Sachs being paid to sell NZers assets to NZers?
Nicola Willis, National’s supposed Finance Minister, has delivered another policy failure with the Family Boost scheme, a childcare rebate that was big on promises but has been very small on delivery. Only 56,000 families have signed up, a far cry from the 130,000 Willis personally championed in National’s campaign. This ...
This article was first published on 7 February 2025. In January, I crossed the milestone of 24 years of service in two militaries—the British and Australian armies. It is fair to say that I am ...
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Hi,In case you missed it, New Zealand icon Lorde has a new single out. It’s called “What Was That”, and has a very low key music video that was filmed around her impromptu performance in New York’s Washington Square Park. When police shut down the initial popup, one of my ...
A strategy of denial is now the cornerstone concept for Australia’s National Defence Strategy. The term’s use as an overarching guide to defence policy, however, has led to some confusion on what it actually means ...
The IMF’s twice-yearly World Economic Outlook and Fiscal Monitor publications have come out in the last couple of days. If there is gloom in the GDP numbers (eg this chart for the advanced countries, and we don’t score a lot better on the comparable one for the 2019 to ...
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The argument over US officials’ misuse of secure but non-governmental messaging platform Signal falls into two camps. Either it is a gross error that undermines national security, or it is a bit of a blunder ...
Cost of living ~1/3 of Kiwis needed help with food as cost of living pressures continue to increase - turning to friends, family, food banks or Work and Income in the past year, to find food. 40% of Kiwis also said they felt schemes offered little or no benefit, according ...
Hi,Perhaps in 2025 it shouldn’t come as a surprise that the CEO and owner of Voyager Internet — the major sponsor of the New Zealand Media Awards — has taken to sharing a variety of Anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish conspiracy theories to his 1.2 million followers.This included sharing a post from ...
In the sprint to deepen Australia-India defence cooperation, navy links have shot ahead of ties between the two countries’ air forces and armies. That’s largely a good thing: maritime security is at the heart of ...
'Cause you and me, were meant to be,Walking free, in harmony,One fine day, we'll fly away,Don't you know that Rome wasn't built in a day?Songwriters: Paul David Godfrey / Ross Godfrey / Skye Edwards.I was half expecting to see photos this morning of National Party supporters with wads of cotton ...
The PSA says a settlement with Health New Zealand over the agency’s proposed restructure of its Data and Digital and Pacific Health teams has saved around 200 roles from being cut. A third of New Zealanders have needed help accessing food in the past year, according to Consumer NZ, and ...
John Campbell’s Under His Command, a five-part TVNZ+ investigation series starting today, rips the veil off Destiny Church, exposing the rot festering under Brian Tamaki’s self-proclaimed apostolic throne. This isn’t just a church; it’s a fiefdom, built on fear, manipulation, and a trail of scandals that make your stomach churn. ...
Some argue we still have time, since quantum computing capable of breaking today’s encryption is a decade or more away. But breakthrough capabilities, especially in domains tied to strategic advantage, rarely follow predictable timelines. Just ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Pearl Marvell(Photo credit: Pearl Marvell. Image credit: Samantha Harrington. Dollar bill vector image: by pch.vector on Freepik) Igrew up knowing that when you had extra money, you put it under a bed, stashed it in a book or a clock, or, ...
The political petrified piece of wood, Winston Peters, who refuses to retire gracefully, has had an eventful couple of weeks peddling transphobia, pushing bigoted policies, undertaking his unrelenting war on wokeness and slinging vile accusations like calling Green co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick a “groomer”.At 80, the hypocritical NZ First leader’s latest ...
It's raining in Cockermouth and we're following our host up the stairs. We’re telling her it’s a lovely building and she’s explaining that it used to be a pub and a nightclub and a backpackers, but no more.There were floods in 2009 and 2015 along the main street, huge floods, ...
A recurring aspect of the Trump tariff coverage is that it normalises – or even sanctifies – a status quo that in many respects has been a disaster for working class families. No doubt, Donald Trump is an uncertainty machine that is tanking the stock market and the growth prospects ...
The National Party’s Minister of Police, Corrections, and Ethnic Communities (irony alert) has stumbled into yet another racist quagmire, proving that when it comes to bigotry, the right wing’s playbook is as predictable as it is vile. This time, Mitchell’s office reposted an Instagram reel falsely claiming that Te Pāti ...
In the week of Australia’s 3 May election, ASPI will release Agenda for Change 2025: preparedness and resilience in an uncertain world, a report promoting public debate and understanding on issues of strategic importance to ...
In a world crying out for empathy, J.K. Rowling has once again proven she’s more interested in stoking division than building bridges. The once-beloved author of Harry Potter has cemented her place as this week’s Arsehole of the Week, a title earned through her relentless, tone-deaf crusade against transgender rights. ...
Health security is often seen as a peripheral security domain, and as a problem that is difficult to address. These perceptions weaken our capacity to respond to borderless threats. With the wind back of Covid-19 ...
Would our political parties pass muster under the Fair Trading Act?WHAT IF OUR POLITICAL PARTIES were subject to the Fair Trading Act? What if they, like the nation’s businesses, were prohibited from misleading their consumers – i.e. the voters – about the nature, characteristics, suitability, or quantity of the products ...
Rod EmmersonThank you to my subscribers and readers - you make it all possible. Tui.Subscribe nowSix updates today from around the world and locally here in Aoteaora New Zealand -1. RFK Jnr’s Autism CrusadeAmerica plans to create a registry of people with autism in the United States. RFK Jr’s department ...
We see it often enough. A democracy deals with an authoritarian state, and those who oppose concessions cite the lesson of Munich 1938: make none to dictators; take a firm stand. And so we hear ...
370 perioperative nurses working at Auckland City Hospital, Starship Hospital and Greenlane Clinical Centre will strike for two hours on 1 May – the same day senior doctors are striking. This is part of nationwide events to mark May Day on 1 May, including rallies outside public hospitals, organised by ...
Character protections for Auckland’s villas have stymied past development. Now moves afoot to strip character protection from a bunch of inner-city villas. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories shortest from our political economy on Wednesday, April 23:Special Character Areas designed to protect villas are stopping 20,000 sites near Auckland’s ...
Artificial intelligence is poised to significantly transform the Indo-Pacific maritime security landscape. It offers unprecedented situational awareness, decision-making speed and operational flexibility. But without clear rules, shared norms and mechanisms for risk reduction, AI could ...
For what is a man, what has he got?If not himself, then he has naughtTo say the things he truly feelsAnd not the words of one who kneelsThe record showsI took the blowsAnd did it my wayLyrics: Paul Anka.Morena folks, before we discuss Winston’s latest salvo in NZ First’s War ...
Britain once risked a reputation as the weak link in the trilateral AUKUS partnership. But now the appointment of an empowered senior official to drive the project forward and a new burst of British parliamentary ...
Australia’s ability to produce basic metals, including copper, lead, zinc, nickel and construction steel, is in jeopardy, with ageing plants struggling against Chinese competition. The multinational commodities company Trafigura has put its Australian operations under ...
There have been recent PPP debacles, both in New Zealand (think Transmission Gully) and globally, with numerous examples across both Australia and Britain of failed projects and extensive litigation by government agencies seeking redress for the failures.Rob Campbell is one of New Zealand’s sharpest critics of PPPs noting that; "There ...
On Twitter on Saturday I indicated that there had been a mistake in my post from last Thursday in which I attempted to step through the Reserve Bank Funding Agreement issues. Making mistakes (there are two) is annoying and I don’t fully understand how I did it (probably too much ...
Indonesia’s armed forces still have a lot of work to do in making proper use of drones. Two major challenges are pilot training and achieving interoperability between the services. Another is overcoming a predilection for ...
The StrategistBy Sandy Juda Pratama, Curie Maharani and Gautama Adi Kusuma
As a living breathing human being, you’ve likely seen the heart-wrenching images from Gaza...homes reduced to rubble, children burnt to cinders, families displaced, and a death toll that’s beyond comprehension. What is going on in Gaza is most definitely a genocide, the suffering is real, and it’s easy to feel ...
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Last night, the news came through that Pope Francis had passed away at 7:35 am in Rome on Monday, the 21st of April, following a reported stroke and heart failure. Pope Francis. Photo: AP.Despite his obvious ill health, it still came as a shock, following so soon after the Easter ...
The 2024 Independent Intelligence Review found the NIC to be highly capable and performing well. So, it is not a surprise that most of the 67 recommendations are incremental adjustments and small but nevertheless important ...
This is a re-post from The Climate BrinkThe world has made real progress toward tacking climate change in recent years, with spending on clean energy technologies skyrocketing from hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars globally over the past decade, and global CO2 emissions plateauing.This has contributed to a reassessment of ...
Hi,I’ve been having a peaceful month of what I’d call “existential dread”, even more aware than usual that — at some point — this all ends.It was very specifically triggered by watching Pantheon, an animated sci-fi show that I’m filing away with all-time greats like Six Feet Under, Watchmen and ...
Once the formalities of honouring the late Pope wrap up in two to three weeks time, the conclave of Cardinals will go into seclusion. Some 253 of the current College of Cardinals can take part in the debate over choosing the next Pope, but only 138 of them are below ...
The National Party government is doubling down on a grim, regressive vision for the future: more prisons, more prisoners, and a society fractured by policies that punish rather than heal. This isn’t just a misstep; it’s a deliberate lurch toward a dystopian future where incarceration is the answer to every ...
The audacity of Don Brash never ceases to amaze. The former National Party and Hobson’s Pledge mouthpiece has now sunk his claws into NZME, the media giant behind the New Zealand Herald and half of our commercial radio stations. Don Brash has snapped up shares in NZME, aligning himself with ...
A listing of 28 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 13, 2025 thru Sat, April 19, 2025. This week's roundup is again published by category and sorted by number of articles included in each. The formatting is a ...
“What I’d say to you is…” our Prime Minister might typically begin a sentence, when he’s about to obfuscate and attempt to derail the question you really, really want him to answer properly (even once would be okay, Christopher). Questions such as “Why is a literal election promise over ...
Ruth IrwinExponential Economic growth is the driver of Ecological degradation. It is driven by CO2 greenhouse gas emissions through fossil fuel extraction and burning for the plethora of polluting industries. Extreme weather disasters and Climate change will continue to get worse because governments subscribe to the current global economic system, ...
A man on telly tries to tell me what is realBut it's alright, I like the way that feelsAnd everybody singsWe are evolving from night to morningAnd I wanna believe in somethingWriter: Adam Duritz.The world is changing rapidly, over the last year or so, it has been out with the ...
MFB Co-Founder Cecilia Robinson runs Tend HealthcareSummary:Kieran McAnulty calls out National on healthcare lies and says Health Minister Simeon Brown is “dishonest and disingenuous”(video below)McAnulty says negotiation with doctors is standard practice, but this level of disrespect is not, especially when we need and want our valued doctors.National’s $20bn ...
Chris Luxon’s tenure as New Zealand’s Prime Minister has been a masterclass in incompetence, marked by coalition chaos, economic lethargy, verbal gaffes, and a moral compass that seems to point wherever political expediency lies. The former Air New Zealand CEO (how could we forget?) was sold as a steady hand, ...
Has anybody else noticed Cameron Slater still obsessing over Jacinda Ardern? The disgraced Whale Oil blogger seems to have made it his life’s mission to shadow the former Prime Minister of New Zealand like some unhinged stalker lurking in the digital bushes.The man’s obsession with Ardern isn't just unhealthy...it’s downright ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is climate change a net benefit for society? Human-caused climate change has been a net detriment to society as measured by loss of ...
When the National Party hastily announced its “Local Water Done Well” policy, they touted it as the great saviour of New Zealand’s crumbling water infrastructure. But as time goes by it's looking more and more like a planning and fiscal lame duck...and one that’s going to cost ratepayers far more ...
Donald Trump, the orange-hued oligarch, is back at it again, wielding tariffs like a mob boss swinging a lead pipe. His latest economic edict; slapping hefty tariffs on imports from China, Mexico, and Canada, has the stench of a protectionist shakedown, cooked up in the fevered minds of his sycophantic ...
In the week of Australia’s 3 May election, ASPI will release Agenda for Change 2025: preparedness and resilience in an uncertain world, a report promoting public debate and understanding on issues of strategic importance to ...
One pill makes you largerAnd one pill makes you smallAnd the ones that mother gives youDon't do anything at allGo ask AliceWhen she's ten feet tallSongwriter: Grace Wing Slick.Morena, all, and a happy Bicycle Day to you.Today is an unofficial celebration of the dawning of the psychedelic era, commemorating the ...
It’s only been a few months since the Hollywood fires tore through Los Angeles, leaving a trail of devastation, numerous deaths, over 10,000 homes reduced to rubble, and a once glorious film industry on its knees. The Palisades and Eaton fires, fueled by climate-driven dry winds, didn’t just burn houses; ...
Four eighty-year-old books which are still vitally relevant today. Between 1942 and 1945, four refugees from Vienna each published a ground-breaking – seminal – book.* They left their country after Austria was taken over by fascists in 1934 and by Nazi Germany in 1938. Previously they had lived in ‘Red ...
Good Friday, 18th April, 2025: I can at last unveil the Secret Non-Fiction Project. The first complete Latin-to-English translation of Giovanni Pico della Mirandola’s twelve-book Disputationes adversus astrologiam divinatricem (Disputations Against Divinatory Astrology). Amounting to some 174,000 words, total. Some context is probably in order. Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463-1494) ...
National MP Hamish Campbell's pathetic attempt to downplay his deep ties to and involvement in the Two by Twos...a secretive religious sect under FBI and NZ Police investigation for child sexual abuse...isn’t just a misstep; it’s a calculated lie that insults the intelligence of every Kiwi voter.Campbell’s claim of being ...
New Zealand First’s Shane Jones has long styled himself as the “Prince of the Provinces,” a champion of regional development and economic growth. But beneath the bluster lies a troubling pattern of behaviour that reeks of cronyism and corruption, undermining the very democracy he claims to serve. Recent revelations and ...
Give me one reason to stay hereAnd I'll turn right back aroundGive me one reason to stay hereAnd I'll turn right back aroundSaid I don't want to leave you lonelyYou got to make me change my mindSongwriters: Tracy Chapman.Morena, and Happy Easter, whether that means to you. Hot cross buns, ...
New Zealand’s housing crisis is a sad indictment on the failures of right wing neoliberalism, and the National Party, under Chris Luxon’s shaky leadership, is trying to simply ignore it. The numbers don’t lie: Census data from 2023 revealed 112,496 Kiwis were severely housing deprived...couch-surfing, car-sleeping, or roughing it on ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: on a global survey of over 3,000 economists and scientists showing a significant divide in views on green growth; and ...
Simeon Brown, the National Party’s poster child for hubris, consistently over-promises and under-delivers. His track record...marked by policy flip-flops and a dismissive attitude toward expert advice, reveals a politician driven by personal ambition rather than evidence. From transport to health, Brown’s focus seems fixed on protecting National's image, not addressing ...
Open access notables Recent intensified riverine CO2 emission across the Northern Hemisphere permafrost region, Mu et al., Nature Communications:Global warming causes permafrost thawing, transferring large amounts of soil carbon into rivers, which inevitably accelerates riverine CO2 release. However, temporally and spatially explicit variations of riverine CO2 emissions remain unclear, limiting the ...
Once a venomous thorn in New Zealand’s blogosphere, Cathy Odgers, aka Cactus Kate, has slunk into the shadows, her once-sharp quills dulled by the fallout of Dirty Politics.The dishonest attack-blogger, alongside her vile accomplices such as Cameron Slater, were key players in the National Party’s sordid smear campaigns, exposed by Nicky ...
Once upon a time, not so long ago, those who talked of Australian sovereign capability, especially in the technology sector, were generally considered an amusing group of eccentrics. After all, technology ecosystems are global and ...
The ACT Party leader’s latest pet project is bleeding taxpayers dry, with $10 million funneled into seven charter schools for just 215 students. That’s a jaw-dropping $46,500 per student, compared to roughly $9,000 per head in state schools.You’d think Seymour would’ve learned from the last charter school fiasco, but apparently, ...
India navigated relations with the United States quite skilfully during the first Trump administration, better than many other US allies did. Doing so a second time will be more difficult, but India’s strategic awareness and ...
The NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi is concerned for low-income workers given new data released by Stats NZ that shows inflation was 2.5% for the year to March 2025, rising from 2.2% in December last year. “The prices of things that people can’t avoid are rising – meaning inflation is rising ...
Last week, the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment recommended that forestry be removed from the Emissions Trading Scheme. Its an unfortunate but necessary move, required to prevent the ETS's total collapse in a decade or so. So naturally, National has told him to fuck off, and that they won't be ...
Te Pāti Māori are appalled by Cabinet's decision to agree to 15 recommendations to the Early Childhood Education (ECE) sector following the regulatory review by the Ministry of Regulation. We emphasise the need to prioritise tamariki Māori in Early Childhood Education, conducted by education experts- not economists. “Our mokopuna deserve ...
The Government must support Northland hapū who have resorted to rakes and buckets to try to control a devastating invasive seaweed that threatens the local economy and environment. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill that would ensure the biological definition of a woman and man are defined in law. “This is not about being anti-anyone or anti-anything. This is about ensuring we as a country focus on the facts of biology and protect the ...
After stonewalling requests for information on boot camps, the Government has now offered up a blog post right before Easter weekend rather than provide clarity on the pilot. ...
More people could be harmed if Minister for Mental Health Matt Doocey does not guarantee to protect patients and workers as the Police withdraw from supporting mental health call outs. ...
The Green Party recognises the extension of visa allowances for our Pacific whānau as a step in the right direction but continues to call for a Pacific Visa Waiver. ...
The Government yesterday released its annual child poverty statistics, and by its own admission, more tamariki across Aotearoa are now living in material hardship. ...
Today, Te Pāti Māori join the motu in celebration as the Treaty Principles Bill is voted down at its second reading. “From the beginning, this Bill was never welcome in this House,” said Te Pāti Māori Co-Leader, Rawiri Waititi. “Our response to the first reading was one of protest: protesting ...
The Green Party is proud to have voted down the Coalition Government’s Treaty Principles Bill, an archaic piece of legislation that sought to attack the nation’s founding agreement. ...
A Member’s Bill in the name of Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter which aims to stop coal mining, the Crown Minerals (Prohibition of Mining) Amendment Bill, has been pulled from Parliament’s ‘biscuit tin’ today. ...
Labour MP Kieran McAnulty’s Members Bill to make the law simpler and fairer for businesses operating on Easter, Anzac and Christmas Days has passed its first reading after a conscience vote in Parliament. ...
Nicola Willis continues to sit on her hands amid a global economic crisis, leaving the Reserve Bank to act for New Zealanders who are worried about their jobs, mortgages, and KiwiSaver. ...
Our laws are leaving many veterans who served after 1974 out in the cold. I know, because I’m one of them.This Sunday Essay was made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.First published in 2024.As I write this story, I am in constant pain. My hands ...
An MP fighting for anti-trafficking legislation says it is hard for prosecutors to take cases to court - but he is hopeful his bill will turn the tide. ...
NONFICTION1 No Words for This by Ali Mau (HarperCollins, $39.99)2 Everyday Comfort Food by Vanya Insull (Allen & Unwin, $39.99)3 Three Wee Bookshops at the End of the World by Ruth Shaw (Allen & Unwin, $39.99)
This Anzac Day marks 110 years since the Gallipoli landings by soldiers in the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps - the ANZACS. It signalled the beginning of a campaign that was to take the lives of so many of our young men - and would devastate the ...
The violent deportation of migrants is not new, and New Zealand forces had a hand in such a regime after World War II, writes historian Scott Hamilton. The world is watching the new Trump government wage a war against migrants it deems illegal. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials and ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.This Sunday Essay was made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
A new poem by Aperahama Hurihanganui, about the name of Aperahama and Abby Hauraki’s three-year-old son, Te Hono ki Īhipa (which translates to ‘The Connection to Egypt’). Te Hono ki Īhipa what’s in a name? te hono – the connection to your tīpuna, valiant soldiers of the 28th Māori Battalion ...
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Pacific Media Watch The Fijians for Palestine Solidarity Network today condemned the Fiji government’s failure to stand up for international law and justice over the Israeli war on Gaza in their weekly Black Thursday protest. “For the past 18 months, we have made repeated requests to our government to do ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Michelle Grattan and Amanda Dunn discuss the fourth week of the 2025 election campaign. While the death of Pope Francis interrupted campaigning for a while, the leaders had another debate on Tuesday night and the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Whatever the result on May 3, even people within the Liberals think they have run a very poor national campaign. Not just poor, but odd. Nothing makes the point more strongly than this week’s ...
The Finance Minister says the leftover funding from the unexpectedly low uptake of the FamilyBoost policy will be redistributed to families who need it. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Ghezelbash, Professor and Director, Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, UNSW Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney People who apply for asylum in Australia face significant delays in having their claims processed. These delays undermine the integrity of the asylum system, erode ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Every election cycle the media becomes infatuated, even if temporarily, with preference deals between parties. The 2025 election is no exception, with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Hortle, Deputy Director, Tasmanian Policy Exchange, University of Tasmania For each Australian federal election, there are two different ways you get to vote. Whether you vote early, by post or on polling day on May 3, each eligible voter will be ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna Mortimore, Lecturer, Griffith Business School, Griffith University wedmoment.stock/Shutterstock If elected, the Coalition has pledged to end Labor’s substantial tax break for new zero- or low-emissions vehicles. This, combined with an earlier promise to roll back new fuel efficiency standards, ...
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Free milk coming back to primary schools
This is the greatest thing I have heard of in a long time
The kids are going to love that.
The kids will love having a cold milk. (I remember that.) I used to look forward to it so much everyday at school
It’s great
It won’t cost the taxpayers a thing.
I wonder what the government’s response will be?
The weak point of charity being, (as the Stuff.co news article points out), that as with most charity, it is mostly being done for the benefit of the giver.
To remove this initiative from the personal whims, or whatever, of any change in circumstances or personal at Fonterra.
The government needs to follow up with legislation to remove the power of any new board of directors at Fonterra, to undo this initiative, and also force their competitors to match it.
If Fonterra can do it, so can the rest. If the other big players of the New Zealand dairy industry aren’t compelled to join this scheme, this would be a competitive advantage that would eventually put pressure on Fonterra at some future time to undo this initiative.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6141553/Free-milk-coming-back-to-primary-schools
Jenny I agree this is a great thing for Fonterra to be going ahead with, I’ve known about their plans for a little while and believe what they have in mind will be a real benefit to schools, children and the community in general.
But to suggest that the government legislate that they have to do it is really bizarre.
Its the only way to be sure.
Just a pity we’re not feeding children at primary school something that was designed for humans to consume rather than baby cows….
Perhaps we could get wet nurses ?
You certainly appear to need one.
So let’s legislate that all supermarkets provide free food to everyone.
Oh and let’s not forget all landlords to provide free accomodation.
Ah there, you see, I knew you’d come round. It’s hard to believe, but humanity hasn’t always exchanged money for food and shelter.
I’d prefer to legislate that employers pay workers above slave level wages.
Oh wait, we actually do that! And it works. Barely.
The bottom line for me here HS is that our sovereign government (not the convenience of the free market) needs to make a call on what is important and needs to happen for the welfare of our children.
Do you want me to send over some bales of straw for you as you must be running low.
Free makets have no interest in the welfare of society therefore they should not be allowed to set the fundamental frameworks of society.
When did they take away the previous hs?
You are equating minimum wage law with legislating that Fonterra must supply milk FOC to primary schools – explain how that is not s strawman.
I think you are still struggling with the events of the last few weeks.
The consideration of either makes tories froth at the mouth, for a start.
They both recognise that relying on the goodwill of capital does not ensure humane or even healthy living standards for much or the population.
They both operate under the premiss that government has a role in maintaining individual living standards.
They both involve legislating a (modest) cost on a few in order to improve the wellbeing of many.
They both identify social justice as an obligation of business, as well as “maximising profits”.
So you’d be in favour of smart cards for benficiaries to ensure that the benefit is not spent on items such as lotto tickets, cigarettes, alcohol etc – after all surely that’s an important way the government can have a role in maintaining individual living standards.
lol.
really? You’re equating “35% on all income above $30k” or “chuck a portion of your $multi-billion profits towards giving kids calcium” with “we will micromanage even the most miniscule detail of your life”?
Bit desperate, even for a zealot like you.
um what ?
For a start I think you’ll find that Fonterra doesn’t make a multi billion dollar profit.
Not sure what you are on about in relation to the 35% above 30k.
But feel free to continue your bizarre cold war/class rhetoric.
meh – fair enough on the multi-billion profit point, but it’s not exactly a small business, is it.
The point is that while minimum wage & legislating milk in schools at fonterra’s cost are not fundamentally dissimilar, wheras your attempt at comparing higher-level regulations that are administerable and workable (minimum wage, milk in schools, progressive taxation) with vetting each and every transaction a beneficiary tries to make was idiotic.
They are a large business, the largest after the government I expect.
I don’t see how you equate similarity in relation to government legislation for a minimum wage and posited government legislation that Fonterra supply free stock. For any government to legislate that a private company
In terms of the smart card for beneficiaries I was being facetious, anyway this will never even be trialled in NZ to see if it has positive effects on recipients and their children’s health and their buying behaviour – more’s the pity.
Not sure where you get the idea that this type of thing would by necessity vet each and every purchase a beneficiary tries to make. I think it would be more informative in the first instance to allow any and all purchasing on the smart card for the beneficiary within financial constraints and then have some budgeting advice available once the data comes back on where money is being spent.
So when did they replace the real hs?
“Budgeting advice”? If that’s all it’s for, why not just use the citizen’s own eftpos card?
Besides, it doesn’t “ensure” the benefit is only spent on whatever the case manager du jour regards as deserved.
But whether it’s someone defining a database of permitted products before the system is implemented, or just caseworkers going over the transaction logs as part of “budget advice”, my criticism still stands. And then there need to be audits and so on to ensure that people aren’t gaming the system (e.g. ringing up alcohol as “milk”). There’s a massive difference – and diminishing social returns – between the higher level regulation that easily integrates into the way things are currently done, versus spending a huge amount of resources on making sure absolutely no beneficiary has a single cent more than they are deemed to need.
Only a modern day urban dweller could sneer at the value of straw.
hs What are you on? Flights of fancy and hyperbole have to meet reality eventually. Pity that you can’t think rationally about using government resources from the people to distribute healthy and helpful benefits to the people. But you don’t care do you, you are practising for your Christmas skit “Higher national standards in grinchdom”.
The government pisses a very large portion of their income up against the proverbial wall.
Not content with that buffoons like Colonial Viper demand that the government legislate that private companies such as Fonterra must provide product FOC just in case in a year or two’s time they decide to no longer provide milk FOC into primary schools.
lowerstandard Fonterra is a govt legislated entity
Government legislation was required to allow Fonterra to be formed…. apart from that have you got some point you’re trying to make or are you just stinking up the interwebs.
Dairy farmers demand that the country provides them with water free of charge.
So fairs fair you right wing asshole
Gawd still screeching about right wing this and left wing then a bit of class war this class war that – seriously bud broaden your horizons and get out a bit more.
CV “Dairy farmers demand that the country provides them with water free of charge.”
Don’t forget the rivers and aquifers that they demand be available to dump their business’s crap and waste in. Which Nick Smith conveniently provides by pushing water quality control onto the regional councils which are majority controlled by farming interests. Oh, except where a regional council is not controlled by farming interests like Canterbury.
What a frikkin’ jip.
If ever there was something to get my own blood boiling it is this.
CV: “Dairy farmers demand that the country provides them with water free of charge.”
Plenty of water falling freely at the moment. But the country doesn’t provide it, regular water is far from free, it’s a major expense on many farms.
nature provided ecosystem services are part of the commons and aren’t free to commercial enterprises for the gain of just a few major shareholders.
I’d be happy to give farmers the portion of water which fell on their land from rain free of charge though, if that is what you are asking.
By the way I suspect you are talking about the cost of irrigation schemes not the cost of the water.
Hey HS this is not a game mate this is class war.
hs
Well I hope they don’t waste any of it on you. You obviously are not appreciative or in need of any help you receive from the government which should go along with a desire that other people also be helped. Probably you have no need for government help at all being so clever, wise and self-sufficient. You sound like an urban Bear Grylls.
And you sound like a retard.
Let me spell it out for you the government of the day or any day for that matter takes in a large amounts of revenue to spend on Health, Education, Welfare, Policing, Transport etc
This is all excellent and to be applauded as I don’t believe anyone apart from the deluded think we should not have these publicly provided services, however, if you have yet to notice that in many areas we continue to spend more and more yet have the same or indeed poorer statistics I would suggest you haven’t been looking.
As a small local government example we have had Auckland transport funding a group of street performers in the middle of Queen Street teaching people how to cross the road when the buzzer goes – I kid you not.
Add to that the multitudinous QANGOs and government departments who produce reports for Africa which consist of dribble, jibberish and an opposite opinion to the report that they had produced for a previous minister.
Oh and how about the government forums where everyone gets a trip to Wellington or overseas to scoff it up big on the taxpayer and pontif-cate from on high – it just goes on and on and on regardless of whether the red or blue team have the keys to the car.
If you want to go on about waste just look at private sector waste.
Frankly lets start with the $1.1B plus that the private sector lost us tax payers in Southern Canterbury Finance.
Now here comes the $100M gifted to investment bankers for selling off our prime strategic power assets.
Or the luxury dinner out the Marton meatworks management treated themselves to after locking out their workers, demanding that meatworkers take a 20% pay cut.
Frankly you are a small picture asshole.
And you are a deluded twat who believes the answer to all your perceived ills will be cured by a change from blue to red in Wellington.
Anyone who spends their days waiting for governments of any hue to sort their life out for them should jump off a cliff now.
Now we just need the food to go with the milk and we may be getting somewhere.
A rollout of meals in schools gives the parents a bit more money in their back pocket and makes sure all kids in education have the fuel to learn.
It’s not a full roll-out but the current charity food in school programs are looking at being able to extend further because of this move.
They were saying this morning on Nine-to-Noon that milk’s a big part of their cost, so could look at expanding into other things – maybe add fruit to the menu (which will certainly please Carol, below).
Oh a realize that, I’m just hopeful that we may follow this through to it’s full potential and have state run or funded meals in schools.
Would be interested in seeing what the costings would be for nationwide rollout, I figure it could be pretty popular as an across the board policy if people could be convinced to pay for it.
The cost including transport, storage, refrigeration etc of supplying the milk only to primary schools is in the order of $40 million per year.
I though it sounded a lot but have seen the various costings and they are real – unlike the assessors fees in CCH.
and the benefit?
Kids having a good feed of protein and calcium in the morning.
For Fonterra good PR and potentially a greater number of milk drinkers down the track.
I would expect some reduction in hospital admissions for e.g. dental caries, maybe reduced admissions in adulthood as well, greater attention at lessons (i.e. more complex food than sugar syrup), and improvements in overall health.
Pretty big benefit, there.
Fair point that could well be the case in the longer medium term – best place to monitor would probably be in parts of the Northland region where flouride usage is still low.
The cost of having children in poverty is a $ 6 billion a year problem good on Fonterra for being so brave !
I wonder what the cost of having children in poverty is in India ?
Probably not much more, as the children of the poor don’t have access to free healthcare. Kids are seen as expendable.
FIFY
Ant That sounds sensible. I wonder if anybody in education management has ever heard or thought about it?
I must admit, I also see it as a way to raise benefits by default and give a what is in effect a tax cut to lower paid NZers by chopping their food bill in half without scaring the horses too much.
Figure it can be sold to middle NZ the same way (putting money in their pockets for the mortgage etc), but will be more beneficial to those on the bottom end.
Hmmm… I guess it’s great for all those children who love milk. Milk used to cause me to throw up when I was young. Even the smell of all the open bottles in the classroom used to make my stomach heave a little…. so not very pleasant memories.
I would have preferred a piece of fruit, but, I had no alternative choice back in those days of free school milk. I just used to have to take a note from my mum to the teacher at the beginning of each year to say I couldn’t drink it. It was compulsory to have one of those little bottles of milk each school day.
Yeah I was quite allergic to milk when I was younger. Caused a number of issues that the GP wouldn’t recognise, but which all stopped each time I went off the stuff for a few weeks.
But in this case it can be taken home and its the thought that counts!
Well, it will be of benefit to many children or families.
But it is a bit of a cynical marketting move, aimed at getting young children into drinking milk for life, and improving Fonterra’s image.
So if this venture could be covered by the “sales and marketting budget”, why couldn’t the same logic have been applied to lowering the price of milk generally for Kiwis?
Um because the major factor in the price of milk is the duopoly pricing by progressive and foodstuffs.
Look mate, you’re a smart dude and all that, but you’re talking as if we’re all hostages to the freemarket and there is nothing to be done about it.
Its fairly simple if what you assert is true. Require all retailers in the country to sell milk at no more than its wholesale price plus 10%.
Done.
I think you’ll find that price fixing is contrary to the commerce act.
I think you’ll find that isn’t much of a problem.
So! How do supermarkets, building suppliers and oil companies get away with it. Not to mention company directors, accountants and lawyers.
Through flagrant breaches of the law. Duopolies go for walks in the park to sort things and agree to not step on each other and divvy up the market etc.
One example – PDL and Skope did it with refrigeration back long ago – they agreed one would take residential and one take commercial. This was in fact admitted by the CEO just last year and published in the Press. See how flagrant it can be?
Anywhere there is a duopoloy or similar this goes on. Back room deals are not the stuff of comic books and conspiracy theories. And imagine if you will for a moment what is going on with the Chch rebuild at the moment. It went on in the construction industry pre-earthquake and will now be steaming ahead at a great rate of knots.
You may also wish to think about the concrete and cement industries and its dominance by Fletchers and Holcim.
Mind you – Vipers suggestion that things get regulated to that extent is similarly not feasible imo. His suggestion that milk retailers be regulated to wholesale price plus 10% … sheesh, surely the holes in that simplistic approach are glaringly obvious.
The Soviet Union collapsed and everyone cried “socialism has failed”. The money system is collapsing and everyone is crying “capitalism has failed”. Everybody seems to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Both systems have favourable and less favourble features. What is needed is a continuing effort to sort the warts, not toss the whole lot out.
The Soviet Union was socialist for about three weeks after the revolution, before it was taken over by an authoritarian dictatorship.
A economically and environmentally sustainable society is incompatible with lightly regulated capitalism.
A socialist society with large monopolies and infrustructure under democratic control and capitalism limited to the level of corner dairies, tradespeople and sme’s has been shown to work fine. That was NZ in the 50’s and 60’s.
Giving 60% of GDP to the financial gambling industry does not work.
Niether does letting those who benefit most from society get away without contributing their fair share. The rest of us in one way or another has to fill the gap. Which is difficult when they have already run away with 90% of the wealth. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2011/11/kia-ora-one-of-no-liberal-memes-is-if.html
It is only small businesses and the trades that are worried about the law.
Big ones get away with it all the time.
The simpler the approach, the fewer the loop holes.
don’t forget plumbers and drainlayers and Structural engineers requiring a percentage of the buildings value!
Well that doesn’t stop the monopolies duopolies and cartels finding away around it.
England has cheaper New Zealand lamb than we do 1/2 our price when the Wharehopuse wanted to set up Grocery supermarkets in competition with the duopoly they were under mined by the duopoly and our toothless commerce commiseration.
No England does not have NZ lamb at 1/2 the NZ price, it’s actually around about the same price – which is still unacceptable IMO.
It jut so happens the English get paid shitloads more than we do, and how did they manage to ship it around the world and still have it cost the same price. Mysterious free global lamb freight.
Carol
Do you understand what is involved in running a business as opposed to running a charity?
Prism, as I understand it, milk in NZ is priced much higher than it needs to for the business to make a profit. And also, it looks to me that Fonterra is planning to provide milk to schools as much as a PR excercise as out of the charity of the CEO’s heart.
For the lactose intolerant children it would be nice if Fonterra proved a soy milk. This could also be available to children with asthma/eczema if milk is a trigger to these conditions.
Soy isn’t necessarily that good for children Rice milk might be better.
I know that soy milk is not recommended for children under age three.
Soy milk isn’t recommended as a replacement for breast milk.. but any decent nutritionist would tell you that cows milk isn’t either.
There was a talk on radionz in the weeekend on what is in food – the chemicals that affect us. Soy milk should be reserved for those who can’t use ordinary as apparently it stimulates the female hormones.
Eeeew. Near zero nutritional value.
Basically human breast milk sets the standard at 10/10, cows (and other mammalian) milk at 5/10, almost everything else might as well be Coke.
The Fruit in Schools scheme was originally set up for decile one and two schools as a part of the NZ Cancer strategy – to increase fibre, anti-oxidants and vitamins into kids diets.
It was to be rolled out into decile 3 and 4, but Ryall stopped that (and mysteriously many schools suddenly jumped a decile or two)
They need t operate the Finnish model – feed all kids a healthy lunch – the benefits, both educational, health related and social interaction, far outweigh the cost.
Go Finnish or we are finished eh!
I saw an item on TV a few months ago about a school feeding kids breakfast. The idea was great and I wouldn’t want to devalue it in any way.
But the teachers complained about the price. Milk, bread, butter, jam, weetabix – all expensive stuff and loaded with lactosy glutenous sugar problems. Big rush of hyperactive kids, then a big crash of grumpy moaning kids. Dunno if that helps teaching. I wondered why they didn’t take a leaf from our asian friend’s book and serve rice and vegetables. Then my wife suggested it was better kids ate not so good stuff than turn their noses up at healthy food. Still, you have to start somewhere.
uturn
Why not porridge made with oats (a little Protein) and milk with sultanas in for sweetening. Stays with you longer than that other hyper stuff.
Or even rice cooked with milk with cinnamon or nutmeg sprinkled on and raw sugar in a dispensing container.
Goodness there, with energy for a few hours.
I loved the free school milk. When in the senior classes I was an enthusiastic milk monitor because I got to drink not only my bottle, but any other leftover bottles. And it gave me an excuse to be out of the classroom for a little time each day.
Seconded
The charity of this very large corporation is to be applauded – but it should not be forgotten that the need for this the need for it represents a failure of government as well as some individual families. We should not rely on corporate charity as a replacement for living wages and in support for better parenting.
In the news report the good citizenship of Fonterra was implied by mentioning their promise to freeze the domestic price of milk until the end of this year. Does anyone know how much this has cost Fonterra (in terms of percentage of milk price – actual dollars are not likely to be available). At one stage there was a suggestion that the freeze actually held prices up at the time of a fall in international prices.
ED …you want a living wage and the employers say they cannot afford it … but is not the real problem the demands to spend that infest our society which make the living wages that people already get hard to live on? I used to have a wage and I lived on it but fortunately for me and my family we were not exposed to so much temptation to spend more than I earnt. When I learnt to live within my means credit was not as easy to get as it is now.
As a community we at one time decided that milk in schools was desirable, and it was paid for by the community. It reflected the hard times many families were then going through, and the donation of milk by Fonterra reflects the difficulties many families are now going through.
We know that the cost of petrol is linked to world-wide prices, but the margins taken by the various suppliers are closely monitored. The price of milk prices has similarly been linked to world markets, but we do not seem to have the same scrutiny of the way in which local prices move relative to those world prices.
Fonterra (conveniently for the National/ACT government) agreed to put a freeze on milk prices for the rest of this year. My question was level of resulting cost to Fonterra – if world prices declined it may have merely been a ‘feel good’ gesture tat actually resulted in an increase in profits for the company – and the ‘donation’ of milk now may ot be a significant cost.
Before we start to rely on ‘donations’ from corporations for basic foodstuffs, perhaps it would be a good idea to know a little bit more about the real costs of such generosity – and whatever the cost we cannot rely on such a donation on an ongoing basis.
Fair warning. The following is a minor rant.
So am I only one getting the heebie-jeebies?
Good corporate citizens fed by the corporation (milk), educated by the corporation (charter schools), instructed in basic safety by the corporation (road code), jailed by the corporation (private prisons) ….and soon (probably) to be dispensed welfare by the corporation among a number of other things.
At least the state often employed people who wanted to make a social contribution or at least feel that they were doing some good. And they did it for years, building up a wealth of knowledge in the process. But corporates moving into social areas do it by the numbers. Employees aren’t ‘needed’ insofar as everything is reduced to formulae that can be followed by ‘anyone, anywhere in the world’…low paid workers in India, Indonesia etc.
Anyway. Charity is no way to deal with want.
Neither is ‘equal opportunity’ to participate in an economic system that’s principle product is poverty. All that creates is a bullshit division between the ‘deserving poor’ and the ‘deserve to be poor’ while the economic paradigm that creates the mess in the first place is positioned aloof and beyond serious scrutiny (Queue David Shearer and his deafening silence on poverty as a product of our economic system….What did he say again? That the levels of poverty he has seen across the world aren’t ‘necessary’ in NZ. It was along those lines. Nothing about it being unacceptable. Just ‘unnecessary’. Which begs the question as to what level of poverty he would accept as ‘necessary’ in NZ. And why.)
Fair comment Bill, you cant help thinking about Fonterra that they do the charity bit as a loss leader, then once established it gets taxpayer funded. I would rather the buggers just paid fair taxes.
Ain’t a ‘loss leader’ per se. How long before it’s used as a bargaining chip by Fonterra seeking concessions from government? Y’know….”If you don’t give us ‘x’ then the milk disappears…and you know how ‘everyone’ loves us ‘good guys’ and the milk we are ‘giving away’! So feel free to be the ‘bad guys’ losing votes for not bowing to our ‘reasonable’ demands.”
Yeah so you legislate or regulate it so it never goes away.
Nah. Can’t see how you can compel a corporate to provide a social good. There is no way that Fonterra is doing this from any new found sense of social responsibility. One way or the other, we will pay. Better to have social provisions provided by the state and paid up front from taxes.
In that case, tax them adequately and require that they supply the state with the needed milk at a maximum discount.
But then they’d just pass on the cost to you and me. Y’know? Market rates and supply and demand and all that tosh?
Why not have the state offer a milk price for milk that smaller producers/farmers who have been squeezed out from the market by Fonterra would find appealing? A price for milk above that offered by Fonterra but below what Fonterra would prefer to on-sell for?
Well, one could always reconstitute a statutory dairy board to cater to smaller dairy farmers left out in the cold 😉
I never have a problem with corporates charging a bit more because the state can simply claw it back via a satisfactory tax system and redistribute it back to society.
No statist. But I have no problem with the first part of your comment.
My second paragraph only describes what social democracies do with capitalist economies. They tax private profits and wealth and redistribute it back to society, theough the provision of social welfare and social benefits.
It’s not a statist approach.
Never thought your second part was statist. Problem with simply taxing corporates (apart from the fact they control ‘the game’) is that they will compensate themselves through increasing prices…and going offshore where possible etc.
Indeed. Although I have no problem with large multinationals deciding to head off, leaving NZ companies to grow and take their place in the market.
I’d merely, simply ask that we took their place. See no point in any vertically divided exploitative entities. A multi-national or corporation viewing and treating me as a field nigger is no different to a NZ based company or the guy next door doing the same thing.
+1
It’s nice of Fonterra but it shows why charity isn’t the best method. It would be a lot better if meals were provided as a matter of course at every school. That way the children and our future wouldn’t be reliant upon charity that may be withdrawn.
If society thinks it necessary to compulsorily educate its young and to take them away from home to do so, then I’m afraid that society should pick up the tab for nourishing children while they are away from home.
Expecting parents to provide meals (e.g., lunch) for children who have been compulsorily removed reminds me of coalminers having to pay (the company store) for the oil in the lamps that they used to help them mine the coal.
There’s no such thing as a ‘free lunch’ so, if society wants institutionalised education as a legislated means to subsidise its economy, it has to accept the costs of doing that. It’s only fair.
(And that is only partly ‘tongue in cheek’).
David Shearer asked to be included on the government poverty committee (a Maori Party initiative). It’s hard to see a more appropriate inclusion amongst our MPs than Shearer, but Key has rejected the request.
I hope Shearer keeps up with this common sense non-partisan approach to politics, and I hope Key widens his inclusive party approach to all parties, utilising the best talent available in parliament.
Otherwise we will remain stuck in cross party poverty.
The issue of ‘poverty’ deserves more than partisan politicking.
Shearer scored a king hit on that and showed Key up for the nasty weasel he really is. Not a bad start actually. Eventually the MSM will notice these things.
You will be surprised that I agree completely, chipping away like this will slowly but surely impact on the public perception until there is a tipping point.
Key’s response certainly demonstrated his small mindedness.
Key has no intention of doing anything substantial about poverty. That would mean the wealthiest 5% paying 2% more taxes.
Dunne supporting Key shows a total lack of morality.
Pete, I know we disagree on a lot but I’m really with you on this one. Good on Shearer for asking and shame on Key for the rejection. It’s the most important issue facing this country at present and it needs to be resolved in a non-partisan way
I don’t think it was that much of a hit at all tbh.
Fairly easily turned to look like politicking by Labour if they complain about it too much.
Because it really is essense politicking.
Labour has to return it to a certain meaness from John Key. Which it is.
I just think the me-too thing to get hits is fairly risky, especially with something like poverty. Labour need to be leading on issues like this and leaving National in the dust not reacting.
Forcing the issue of a confidence and supply agreement or memorandum of understanding as a means to ensure “working constructively” and to get rid of any doubts of petty politicking will work well for Key if pushed.
There is issue after issue that could be viewed as being ‘beyond party politics’. And if all the parliamentary parties got together on them, then we’d merely be living in a more overt dictatorship than our current arrngements would have us perceive.
We are dictated to by the market. Our parliamentarians gave control of the reserve bank away to international financial interests. So now they (and by extention we) have no control over important economic matters. The present economic arrangements are now accepted as ‘natural’ or ‘god given’ by the main parties in parliament. This wasn’t always the case. But now it is, which is why we have the leader of Labour harking on about how certain levels of poverty are ‘unnecessary’ when he should be saying they (and any other given levels) are unacceptable. Ahh. But God said “Let there be capitalism.” And so there was capitalism.
Anybody got a copy of the first Labour Party constitution?
We are dictated to by the market.
Sort of, in some markets more than others. More duped.
We have the power to dictate to many markets. We feed them with our custom. We could choose not to.
And have no access to resources that (surely) rightfully belong to all of us. So, yeah. Assume the position of a Chinese peasant. No access to land that’s been appropriated. So no access to food that’s been produced. (You aware how many times a domestic population has experienced famine amid ‘food a-plenty’?) No access to health care. No access to schooling. And that’s before we start on the end products of material resources, such as….well, everything.
We’re in a bind on some things, but we choose to support many ‘value’-added markets that are totally unneccesary for us, many simply get sucked into consumerism.
There are only separate ‘markets’ where you are talking about discreet products or services. But all products and services are subject to market logics/rules. Ie, the particular economy we live in. So, you either bow to it (the rules and logics…become a wage slave or a slave master) to get access to anything the economy produces or distributes, or…expire.
You don’t want to buy an i-phone (assuming you’re ‘economically viable’ enough to make the choice)? Big deal. You want to buy ‘eco’ and ‘sustainable’ or consciensiously? Assuming you have the economic ‘viability’ to make the choice. Again. Big deal.
The overwhelming majority are on the margins and in need. (How many of the 7 billion of us are desperate for food or reticulated water/sewerage or even the most basic of goods?) The choices of the affluent ‘feel good’ consumers in the ‘west’ mean nothing in the scheme of things from a market perspective. Could say they simply offer new opportunities for market expansion.
How could we forget the “worm” in 2005 and how Mr Sensible benefitted?
It’s amazing how he refuses to appear to the sensible over asset sales.
The worm was 2002, and it was more the media attention that ensued that benefitted him.
I think he’s being quite sensible about part sales of assets.
It was a major National plank, their vote increased. It was Labour’s major campaign obsession and their vote dropped significantly. – the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti.
It was a major National plank, their vote increased.
Only at the expense of ACT… the total centre-right NACT vote decreased from 51.5% to 50.4%.
Another 2.2% went off to the Conservatives who are adamantly opposed to asset sales.
The Greens were also adamantly opposed to asset sales and they had their best ever result increasing their vote by almost 50%.
So basically a very weak argument there Pete.
On this basis it would be possible to make a statistical case against any policy, and no government would have a mandate to do anything.
We don’t have a statistical futility.
We have a representative democracy.
“On this basis it would be possible to make a statistical case against any policy, and no government would have a mandate to do anything.”
That is nothing to do with your point to which logix was responding.
You clearly have no answer to the points made against you re their “vote increasing” and the only thing you can do to save face is to go off topic. Pathetic.
It was you who started with the statistical argument; now you want to call it a futility when it’s been shown it doesn’t necessarily work the way you thought.
Maybe you would be on stronger grounds if instead of making appeals to essentially weak and spurious arguments about ‘mandates’… you were able to make a positive case for why you think UF should support National’s asset sales programs.
Especially in the light of Peter Dunne stating that “in principle UF was against asset sales”.
There’s another principle that the largest party and partner has the most weight in a coalition. I’m sure Labour would have claimed that with CGT if they had put togtether a coalition.
Peter Dunne and United Future made it clear before the election, including:
UnitedFuture campaigned as a moderating influence in government, not as a NO party. It’s quite possible that’s why Dunne was elected.
Right then Pete, it is impliedly agreed by your dropping of the original point and refusal to engage further on it that, contrary to your claim above, the electorate did not in fact increase its vote for parties supporting asset sales (“the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti”). The electorate in support dropped and the electorate in anti increased.
Not that that matters to a piece of malleable plasticine like Dunne – he has no scruples and just make up shit as he goes along to fit with whoever is in power.
So what moderating influence has UF put in place.
Examples please, of extreme things National was going to do, but Dunne has prevented.
Ha, yes good question mr and mrs b.
Over to you Pete…
The trouble with this discussion and I’m not sure where to interject is that it makes excellent sense to sell assets if the money is going into other assets with greater priority. There are people all around doing that at this moment, or have, or will in the future. This is the foolish Black and White stance of the left throughout the discussions. Peter Dunne I gather has gone part of the way in wanting it to be ‘law’ that the 51% remains in government hands, ignoring the potential for future governments to change the law. My position from way back on this forum was for any sales to be held by NZders and I cannot see why special shares with this limitation could not be created … they would sell for less than open shares but better that than selling the family silver overseas to the detriment of our and future generations. So the left can rant and rage and talk about majorities against the emotive “selling the family silver” which ignores the fact that Kiwis are doing that every day to their benefit, and loss, depending on their skill in the market place.
I prefer that there be no asset sales and funding for the projected ventures be found from taxation on those who can afford it. My stance in my first paragraph is a second less desirable option but at least the shares are held by Kiwis directly rather than indirectly as citizens through the government.
It makes no sense at all*. Selling existing assets won’t free up any resources at all and so selling them just makes us poorer as we’ll then have to divert some of our available resources to paying rent for our electricity. If something else needs to be done then we need to budget it from available resources.
* Admittedly, that applies to our entire socio-economic system.
So far it’s simply been well signposted coalition negotiations, no surprises. Otherwise it’s far too soon to tell. See what happens over the next two and a half years.
UF are in a powerful positione. National need either Maori Party support, or they need Dunne’s vote. That means a major potential to moderate.
This morning I proposed that the party has an online means of discussing and debating issues within the party to help establish party positions on future issues. He supports doing that.
That means UF members can be a part of decision making and can be in a position to influence the deciding vote.
That’s what’s being put in place to help moderate government.
A potential to moderate is not an example of an actual moderation. It’s just bullshit, is what it is.
Dunne’s been chosen by National as he has a proven track record as a lapdog.
Pete George has been chosen by Dunne as he has a proven track record as a lapdog.
Its very fitting.
Nope, all other parties on the left support a CGT as well. In this government only National and Act supposedly support selling state assets. UF said they didn’t – until after the election.
Which, of course, is what they won’t be doing when they sell our assets.
The mandate is determined by the number of votes in the house. National has fewer votes than before the election. They have a much weaker mandate.
Look Pete, you’re not even an elected member so stop acting like one and telling lies …. “It was a major National plank, their vote increased”
Their vote increased less than the population increase, therefore its vote went down.
Deception.
Way way way less than half of the voting population voted for a party promoting asset sales.
Bullshit.
Just over 1/3 of eligible voters went for National.
But given Peter Dunne’s duplicity here we can’t really expect Pete to be much more than a kowtowing apologist for UF. Heaven forbid he’s had long enough to grow a spine but its probably not going to happen at this late stage of life.
vto … this is a parliament not a referendum and National is supported for better or worse by more people than are agin it, or in the previous election … the majority has dropped becuase people gave up on ACT and United Future and put their votes elsewhere but they still have a majority. If NZFirst sit on the fence then it is safe to say that National have a considerably larger majority over the collective left than is shown by the number of seats they are ‘sure’ of.
I understand that jcuknz. My point was in response to one of Pete’s less than accurate assertions, this time concerning the amount of support in the electorate for selling state assets.
How muxch support do you think there is in the electorate for National’s asset proposals. All I’ve seen is a Herald online poll that showed a majority were ok with it, and the election result which is complex but certainly didn’t punish National.
I’m not talking about the black/white polls that didn’t address National’s plan.
Pete, my posts were in reply to your original “It was a major National plank, their vote increased. It was Labour’s major campaign obsession and their vote dropped significantly. – the electorate didn’t buy that level of anti.”
It has been pointed out in various posts by me and others around this mini-thread that in fact their vote did drop. And the anti did in fact increase.
The right’s overall vote dropped.
The proportion of the electorate that voted for a party proposing asset sales dropped. And the proportion of the electorate that voted for parties opposing asset sales increased.
Your base proposition was wrong. In evidence, see all those posts and linked stats etc. Simple and specific point.
Anti asset sales (grossly misrepresented) was Labour’s major campaign theme, especially in the last week, and their end result was dismal.
You can hardly claim that votes for Maori Party, Greens, NZ First and Mana were due to their policies or stances on asset sales. Partially perhaps, but that’s true of all parties and policies.
Greens did not have asset sales as a priority, they were very disciplined on repeating and promoting their three main policies which had nothing to do with asset sales.
And the way our democracy works this is all pointless argument, because National have the numbers that are needed.
Pete, slipping and sliding is just slipping and sliding. It was a very specific point you made and very specific replies that I and others made. You enjoy the contortionist approach clearly but it just weakens your parade of points as time goes on. I should know, I have contorted and twisted many a time myself.
PG to English translation: I’m not talking about anything that proves me wrong.
Well, try proving me wrong, show me anything the demonstrates the level of public opposition to National asset plan.
An electoral referendum run at the cost of just $9M would do that easily.
Asset Sales
Strongly favour 7.2%
Moderately favour 19.8%
No opinion 15.5%
Moderately against 22.1%
Strongly against 34.5%
Over a quarter of NZers are in favour of asset sales. Geeezus.
That doesn’t address mixed ownership partial sales as proposed by National. And even then only about a third are strongly against.
The poll was specifically about National’s proposal, Pete. And calling it asset sales is of course accurate. ‘Mixed ownership partial sales’ are just weasel words to cover up the truth.
Speaking of weasels, I note only 27% are in favour, which makes asset sales 25 times more popular than United Follicles.
‘Asset sales’ is not accurate, there’s a big difference selling something and selling part shares in something.
And there’s no indication on that poll link that it refers to National’s plan.
The Herald online poll of 20,0000 people asked if voters wanted asset sales, partial assert sales, or no asset sales.
44% no asset sales
50% partial asset sales
3% full asset sales
3% didn’t know.
You are comparing a random phone poll of a 1000 people with a self selected online poll of the most conservative newspaper in the country?
I have little respect for phone polls. But they are several orders of magnitude more accurate than any unrestricted online poll.
The poll was from August 2011. It was on Nationals plan. What is your problem – you can’t read dates? Or lookup the TV3 site?
Its from Digipoll in July this year. Who’s asset sales program do you think prompted it, if not National’s? You asked for some evidence at 7.02, Pete, and there it is. Stop dissembling and accept that National don’t have a mandate; never did, never will.
And bugger Auntie, while you’re at it. Online polls are worth even less than your Quisling quibbling.
So just to clarify your argument, Pete:
The polls which make even a vague attempt at accuracy and weighting were surveying people about the asset sales of 15-20 years ago, not the National policy in the headlines at the time
The Herald online poll (for which you supply no link) is a joke.
Its not the poll which is the joke here.
See here. This is exactly what I was talking about. No matter what evidence you put up PG will twist and turn and say that it doesn’t prove him wrong.
“I’ve seen is a Herald online poll that showed a majority were ok with it”
At that level of validity todays Stuff on-line poll is against it.
Question: Should the Government go ahead with partial asset sales? No=58.7%
ShonKey is enjoying his little post election sugar rush, indicated by that revealing lip curl. But he also knows this is as good as it gets and must be pining for Hawaii. [Deleted… a specific assertion that needs evidence. RL] in the new tory intake, the MP for Northland, ex copper Sabin, so there is likely to be opportunity for scandal and by-elections.
Agree, good tactic to make poverty cross party and to nail dunnycan for his usual duplicitousness on asset sales. Milk? well who wants to drink it really, but certainly good for some kids, fruit would be better. Free milk: benefits some children–good, let Dairy Corporate off the hook for price gouging–no so good.
Not going to name names here. I can provide back up by email. Politicians personal lives should not necessarily count unless they are contrary to publicy expressed views or subject to prosecution imo.
With Richard Worth we still don’t know. My general point is with the Nats slim majority in the house such matters assume more importance.
[Fair point TM. I’m concious that the law, and community sentiment, around internet media such as The Standard is shifting towards requiring an improved level of accountability. For better or worse the old Wild West days of the internet are fading. Part of me will miss them. But we are here to stay and adapt we must.
In this instance you made a specific assertion, potentially damaging and actionable (however unlikely), about a specific individual. If there was open domain evidence to back it I’d see no problem with repeating it… but until then I’d prefer to see The Standard take a precautionary approach. It’s a fine line, because at the same time I’m very loath to be seen shutting down legitimate discussion.
And in general I fully agree that politicians’ private lives are off limits unless there is gross hypocrisy or there is an element that potentially compromises their official role. Neither of those two conditions have been established….RL]
AND
Nat Vote
2011- 1,058,637
2008- 1,053,398
An increase of 5239. Rather minimal
Anyone earning less than $65K pa (that’s about 80% of New Zealanders) and voting National was voting purely against their own interests.
And if you consider the Nat+ACT vote (the only two parties unambiguously in favour of asset sales):
2011 – 1,082,526
2008 – 1,138,894
A decrease of 56,368… which is somewhat more than minimal.
Much of that would have gone to the Conservatives (59,236).
The Conservatives were also strictly against asset sales.
Interesting, innit? Socially liberal ACT bleeds their vote to socially conservative Conservatives.
Who is this “socially liberal ACT” that you mention?
Don Brash and his 7 joints of luurrve
I think I watched the most vacuuous news report I’ve ever seen last night. It was so pointless I forget the details, just that I was startled it was even on the news. The general outline went something like this:
“In NZ somewhere something almost happened today and we were just about to comment on it, saying something about how it would be a shame. Some of the people we interviewed declined to comment, as nothing had yet happened. Next up, we go to somebody talking about something that could happen at some time soon.”
I think it was one news, Simon Dallow reading. Reporting the news …before it happens.
Read in The Press this am that the University of Canterbury has given Ruth Richardson an honorary Doctorate for her work as Minister of Finance in the 1990’s.
Unbelievable and disgraceful that the creator of the Mother of all Budgets, who trashed huge numbers of poor NZers, is so rewarded. She began a decade of poverty, the remnants of which are still with us.
FFS there are entire economics departments in this country who need to be put out to work in the fields.
fuck no – the last thing we need is for economists to start associating with farmers.
You think they might corrupt the farmers? Or the other way around?
It would create a critical mass of “negative externalities”, set to a soundtrack of bitching about taxes and the weather.
+1 Rog Chapman
Time Magazine examines problems with mainstream media reporting
At last!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/expd/6422447095/sizes/l/in/photostream/
George Monbiot has published a very good article this week on the problem with MSM reporting in the UK. With some local adaptions it could be applied to the NZ or US media:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/12/britain-press-fighting-class-war
Monbiot begins:
And he draws an interesting distinction between the economic and political elite, the ways they can support or challenge each other.
And Monbiot identifies a general approach to challenge these elites:
And there’s a fully referenced version of the article on Monbiot’s website:
http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/12/unmasking-the-press/
Thank you very much for this!
Em, http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13122011/#comment-416712
I posted this TWO DAYS AGO!!!!
Thanks to you too Ianupnorth! 😛
I read it then and “shared” it on Facebook, completely awesome!
Ditto
Thanks for drawing attention to that Carol; Monbiot is like cool water in a desert.
Trans-Tasman announces Gerry Brownlee as pollie of the year……
FFS! – are these people serious?
Cheer up – they also think Peter Dunne is one of the best speakers in Parliament.
This and giving Ruth Richardson an honourary doctorate for being a Chicago School stooge. Unbelievable.
Yes, but they are dicks.
Although to be fair there are some sensible scores amongst the BS.
e.g. Tolley, Bennet, Norman, Turei
What is Trans-Tasman, and why are they so limited in their perception? Goff was a far better speaker in the House than Key – eg the attempted jump from the gallery & Key’s throat-slitting antics. Turei speaks more passionately and significantly than Norman. Many opposition MPs performed better in the House, and out of it, than National MPs, who need nodding cheerleaders behind them to give a semblance of good performances.
I don’t believe they gave any Labour MP higher than a 6.5. Russell Norman deservedly gets an 8, but I would’ve thought Cunliffe could’ve got 7.0-7.5.
I also don’t understand why they list incoming MPs and then say N/A next to them because they weren’t in the house. How about you actually rate the people that were in the house who left. Simon Power is an obviously missing cabinet member who deserved ranking.
Interesting stat :
After a year of static pay CEO incomes have made up for lost time, with pay out-stripping share values, while wage-earners are still losing money (inflation-adjusted). Top earners – the healthcare industry.
You’d think they’d be embarrassed, what with OWS, high unemployment and all going on.
They are the deserving wealthy, nothing to be embarrassed about there. If you’re lucky and patiently wait they might even give you drippings from their table.
But they’re more likely to kick you, complain that you hurt their foot and then have you charged with assault.
Hey rosy, this is the way of the world according to John Key and his philosophies. You know, if you can get away with it then go for it.
Also exemplified by ex-AB and blue stalwart David Kirk who recently opined re the RWC that “you only get out of this world what you can take”.
So there you have it. Don’t expect anything else while this type of thinking rules the roost.
The attitude of the one percent in one sentence :
“I have one thing to say to you,” she told the handlers, who asked if she supported working families in New York, “I have had one conversation with Bill Ruprecht [the CEO of Sotheby’s] about this, and I told him that if he accedes to any of your demands, I will resign immediately.”
You’d think they’d be embarrassed,
No that’s why they are paid so much… a complete inability to be embarrassed by anything.
Ordinary people have scruples, principles, empathy and a sense of shame when they do bad things. As a result they have trouble sleeping nights and … well that means they can’t hack it as a CEO.
No these Masters of the Universe are a very special breed indeed. That’s why they deserve so much more…
You are exactly right mr logix. Some too many moons ago when touching on this world that exact sentiment was expressed by none other than Sir Michael Fay, that great New Zealander, in describing the attributes required to work for Fay Richwhite, that great New Zealand business.
It was exactly that what you say.
This is the world of John Key’s experience to a tee.
Trotter is definitely going off the boil.
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2011/12/nationals-high-tide.html
Most rural National voters won’t panic at the thought of a blue-green coalition. They’ll trust National to keep the Greens firmly in their correct place.
Further, the seachange of environmental awareness sweeping society is also moving rural and provincial areas. A blue-green coalition would be an expected evolution, not a surprising one.
Last but not least – National voters are not going to know whether the NATs sign up with the Greens until *after* the next election. And both Key and Russel were clearly hand signalling this campaign that it could conceivably happen.
The electorate has been warmed up for the possibility and did not reject the idea.
The last paragraphs in that were the kicker…
That is where the parties of the left should be focusing for new votes.
“That is where the parties of the left should be focusing for new votes.”
Exactly.
With diminishing voter turnout across the Western world, simply trying to chase the votes of those who do vote in essence means moving further and further to the right, in economic terms.
Voting behaviour is inversely correlated with wealth (roughly).
Being ‘electable’ then becomes a matter of the extent to which a party represents the interests of a proportionately wealthier and wealthier sub-set of the population. In effect, the top 1%, 5%, 10% and 20% (in income and wealth terms) of the population are increasingly becoming a greater and greater proportion of those who vote.
Thursday 15 December 2011
Will Kathryn Ryan risk upsetting Richie McCaw?
This morning I learned that, after the 10 o’clock news, Radio New Zealand National host Kathryn Ryan will interview All Black captain Richie McCaw “about his very big year.”
I took the opportunity to remind her that she is a journalist, not a cheerleader, and sent her the following e-mail….
Please ask Richie McCaw to comment on this
9:25 AM
Dear Kathryn,
Could you please ask Richie McCaw to comment on the performance (or non-performance) of referee Andre Joubert in the World Cup final? He will be aware of the deep anger and resentment in France over the refusal of Mr. Joubert to penalize even the most flagrant offences by the All Blacks in the final. Many New Zealand fans share the disquiet and concern of the French fans, and feel that Mr. Joubert’s performance (or lack of performance) has seriously devalued the win in the eyes of the world.
Please put this to him and don’t let it be just another anodyne festival of congratulations.
Yours in sport,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point
P.S. In case you have not seen it, Kathryn, here is a clear breakdown of Joubert’s failure to do his job….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1XBqetaCfgo
—————————————————————————
Ms. Ryan’s producer replied with alacrity….
9:41 AM
Hi Morrissey,
Sorry but the interview was recorded a couple of days ago. I wasn’t part of it, so not sure if she raised this issue or not.
Best wishes,
Clare Sziranyi
Producer
—————————————————————————-
So it looks like we missed out by a couple of days.
And the question remains: who will be the first New Zealand reporter to do his or her job and start asking a few awkward questions?
If French have issues with McCaw’s dodgy play and the the ref is not paying attention they could always resort to their traditional means of protest – eye gouging or testicle wrenching.
Does Ritchie own a boat?
Har har Voice. Regardless of the real world cup indeed being played with a round ball I was not unhappy with the RWC final result.
The team with the best form in the tournament won, it was not the predicted 25 point plus drubbing, AB fans got put throught the wringer till the whistle and the slightly homo erotic grunting match that is close quarters rugby was on Hi res display for bemused viewers world wide.
The team with the best form in the tournament won,
But not the team that played better in the final.
it was not the predicted 25 point plus drubbing,
What halfwit predicted that? They were playing FRANCE, not Tonga.
Statistics guru Stefan Yelas tipped the All Blacks by 25 points as did hundreds of other internet and media sources not to mention talk back
Statistics guru Stefan Yelas tipped the All Blacks by 25 points
Stefan Yelas? On what basis did he make his brilliant prognostication? And did he pick Brazil to lose the 2002 World Cup final by 5 goals? It would have made as much sense.
… as did hundreds of other internet and media sources
Hundreds? I don’t think so. Could you back that up with a few examples? (Stefan Yelas is not credible, by the way.)
… not to mention talk back
So why did you mention the source of the most dire and ill-informed commentary in the whole of New Zealand? And their callers are almost as bad.
My local had a ‘pick the score’ comp, Morrisey, and I actually came second, picking a 5 pt margin. Gwyn, our resident Welshman picked one point. The vast majority of the pub had the AB’s caning France, presumably because we comfortably beat them in the earlier round.
FWIW, I got roundly abused for pointing out that McCaw should have been sent off for deliberately kneeing a French player in the back of the head in a maul. Thugby, huh!
My local had a ‘pick the score’ comp, Morrisey, and I actually came second, picking a 5 pt margin. Gwyn, our resident Welshman picked one point.
I hereby proffer maximum respect to you and Gwyn, my friend!
The vast majority of the pub had the AB’s caning France, presumably because we comfortably beat them in the earlier round.
I wonder if any of them had noticed that the French did not actually make more than a token effort in that match. In fact, it looked like they were trying to lose. The drunkards in the pub probably never factored that into their complicated and sophisticated reckonings.
If French have issues with McCaw’s dodgy play and the the ref is not paying attention they could always resort to their traditional means of protest – eye gouging or testicle wrenching.
That’s not a serious response. Nor is it funny.
Jeez Morrissey,
It was always going to be touch and go if the interview was going to another anodyne one with a celeb jock and an ignoramus on rugby in different corners.
On the question I too pondered the refing of the final….Gee it was great to see the ABs play up to what the ref would tolerate, the same way the Frogs did to us 4 years prior. Watched the game again, the overall impression was at half time NZ should have been out of sight, and the ref had let the Frogs away with too many offenses. In the second half the ABs got away with it….could not help thinking that as in Cardiff 4 years prior the losing team only had to drop a goal.
Complaints against McCaw….he pushes the boundaries the same way as George Smith did and Pocock does for the Ockers, and Burger does for the Boks. Good on them all.
It was always going to be touch and go if the interview was going to another anodyne one with a celeb jock and an ignoramus on rugby in different corners.
Is Kathryn Ryan an ignoramus on rugby? I think she knows just as much, and certainly talks more intelligently about the game than virtually any specialist rugby commentator.
Gee it was great to see the ABs play up to what the ref would tolerate,
The All Blacks consistently cheated, under the eyes of the referee. Possibly the most egregious instance was Jerome Kaino, off his feet, offside and throwing the ball forward from a ruck. And Joubert did not penalize him.
… the same way the Frogs did to us 4 years prior.
There is no serious comparison between the two games.
Watched the game again, the overall impression was at half time NZ should have been out of sight, and the ref had let the Frogs away with too many offenses.
You need to watch it again, this time when you are sober. What on earth gave you the feeling NZ “should have been out of sight”? Or were you just referring to their systematic cheating?
Complaints against McCaw…
The cheating was systematic and carried out by nearly every All Black forward. The complaints are not against the All Blacks but against the man who did not do his job—the (non-) referee, Craig Joubert.
Kathryn Ryan has a sporting background:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/presenters/kathryn-ryan
That explains such a lot! Before I started work in October, I used to listen to her programme, and do my best to ignore her on Fridays, when she would bore for her country about thugby or “grigger” (cricket) as so many NZ men pronounce it.. YAWN! 😀
I’ve always assumed she was a spinster, and although she’s younger than I am, she fits the pattern of the older unmarried woman who is a sports obsessive! I don’t know why, but it’s how some women are…
Bloody hell Morrissey, am I touching a raw nerve or what?
From my viewpoint, bearing many overlays of scars from sprigs, having been the most blatant cheat and offside flanker ever (that’s my claim, those unfortunates who played with and against me would confirm constant pushing the envelope) there is only one thing to say: “get real”.
Do whatever you can get away with, always. Only winners win, and most of the time they are cheating better than the others.
Do whatever you can get away with, always. Only winners win, and most of the time they are cheating better than the others.
My friend, I am not blaming the All Blacks for cheating; of course players will do anything if a referee (or a non-referee) lets them do it.
The problem in that final was not the All Blacks, the problem was the (non-) referee.
erm…the referee was Craig Joubert, not Andre Joubert.
erm…the referee was Craig Joubert, not Andre Joubert.
Thanks for that! I need to remind myself occasionally: Andre was the one who actually DID something on the field…
Yeah, smart move by Key allowing gangs, cults and commie Chinese corporations the
decision of what to teach and pay our taxes to them to.
And explains why ACT didn’t want to talk about their flawed charter schools themes.
We’re not the US, with a history of dealing with gangs, cults and Chinese communism,
we’re a small country easily swamped by money.
On the election though, I’m awestruck that every single National voter not only got
out and voted but turned their back on a tax cut!
Not only that, they also ignored the game changer of a capital gains tax!
And let’s not forget the GST off fresh food.
I was expecting some spliting, even if it was stay at home and not voting.
But for Labour voters (outside of S.Auckland) abstaining, now thats understandable
with the wall to wall Key will msm win win win.
Maybe it was because the MSM and Labour failed to cover the Labour platform…
…how much was that a Labour and how much was that MSM.
Monday there was a Housing crisis story in the news, and the old affordability stat
was brought up.
Six time mediain wage or something, but that’s not reality, many home owners
actually are foreigners who earn much more that the median overseas.
So to say housing is unaffordable is both true and false, yes its unaffordable for
medium Keywees, but its quite affordable, even rather cheaper than housing overseas.
Anyhow Key is working on this, his policies force even more to move overseas in
order to afford a kiwi home in the future, meaning housings may even rise further as
the proportion of medium Keywees drop.
But just go back, think about that, every National voter thought CGT was bad, enough
to a bean they got out and voted.
Nobody in tise suppose business party block thought redressing the investment bubble
was good for them.
WTF! There s clearly a block of NZ who are very happy selling down NZ to foreigners
and locking in primary production as the growth sector.
Why? Well let’s take a guess.
If they make money off (or aspire to) renting a second home out, if they are nicely
turning over their small businesses (or aspire to) without the stress of more taxes
(unlike their foriegn competitors) they can live with the poor skill employees and
having to pay lower wages.
Basically why change the game and have a world class economy when they are already
doing nicely thank you very much.
And is this every likely to change given that the world will need our food, milk,
meat…
So it wasn’t just the same old same old fireside chat about the economy needing more
investment that never got implemented, it was just we never wanted to become
anything more than a backwater.
Free-trade means we are not a back water though.
Is Morgan is just another prophet to be revered and then ignored?
Expect more downgrades as the world wakes up to the persist parasite on the NZ
economy, that the private debt Kiwi’s carry doesn’t just mean a higher risk premium,
but its assisted by a governmental tax system that allows for a quicker turnover of
risk which allows a high burden of debt to be held.
NZ capacity for debt is higher thanks to the weaken tax system, but as debt requires
collateral, with NZ consistently selling off its private collateral, NZ capacity to
take on debt and its actual ability to pay down debt are heading in opposite
directions.
This is hidden in the economy but is just as threatening as a bank over geared, the
fact our government will not take measures to strengthen the tax system, and the
bulk of tax parasites are in the majority (or crowd the media concourse to deliver
do nothing a second term), then we’re headin for a wall without brakes.
The wall being cheaper food! As oil inputs into farming become prohibitive, the
switch to lower energy inputs will mean that our ability to add value is crushed on
both supply and demand. So those who were pocketing the future NZ food production
dividend aren’t considering the loss of demand (Eu, US consumers with spare cash)
and the likely food avalance as the world goes on to producing mass food with cheap
energy inputs. i.e. if we lock into high fuel input dairying then wont have a
dividend to keep the bankers of today happy. Countries that create cheap fuel input
foods in bulk will have the capacity to lower the price of the high fuel input
foods, and thus out bid NZ.
So we get back to the crisis, our hollowed out tax system that affords us too little
investment in growing the economy and keeps a parasite class over paid alive
swallowing debt and eating up collateral.
All it takes is two National Mps to put Nation before party and revolt against the bling government of Key that can spin any turd but makes no core changes. Can we afford three more years on spin cycle?
We need a Labour leader who says to debt addicted middle Nz that rigging the tax system to favor the few only makes it harder to kick the habit.
You won’t get that with Labour, period. They aren’t a left wing party. They reckon they’re centre left, which is a bit like being a little bit pregnant or slightly dead. Centre left is Right, but at a slow speed. I’m pretty sure it is not possible to accomodate the middle classes in the manner they are accustomed and install a socialist perspective in NZ, but I’m happy to hear from someone who thinks they know how. Labour try and try but keep moving right because of it. Then they make a small adjustment to “ease poverty” or “improve healthcare”. Last election campaign offered an adjustment phase. It never lasts though.
Aero – can you please watch your formatting – it renders you comment almost unreadable.
Garth George the dinosaur
Allowing mankind to continue to dominate and procreate beyond the earths capabilities is a sure way to ensure our mutual destruction.
It’s a no brainer really… either the worlds population stabilizes at seven billion and we work towards reducing the problems we already face or we continue to reproduce until resources fail to sustain us…
Seven billion is not sustainable.
If we stop the slide at between two and three billion, I will be impressed.
I suspect you’re right Draco T Bastard. Mainly because capitalism has created such a huge disparity between the haves and have nots, which does not allow developing countries to progress without further environmental destruction.
Slightly oxymoronic?
‘Progress’ in the GDP/capitalist sense requires environmental destruction. Any modern economy is based on cities, roads, mineral use, power dams and coal stations. Fields cleared of native forests and cars, lots of cars.
I wasn’t extolling ‘progress’ in terms of the defunct capitalist idea of the word.
There are ways developed countries can help non-developed countries to grow without undertaking the same huge environmental destruction that gave rise to their “progress”. Although strictly speaking, no progress can be achieved without some form of environmental destruction, the damage can be greatly reduced… particularly with green technology.
Ensuring developing countries have access to green tech advancements so that they develop into a sustainable economy is the issue. Only through an egalitarian worldwide approach can we truly progress and hope to survive climate change.
Currently developed countries are promoting old unsustainable technology for themselves and developing countries because we’re trapped under the heel of free market capitalism. Their idea of progress almost always comes at the expense of others
http://steadystate.org/
Perpetual economic growth is neither possible nor desirable. Growth, especially in wealthy nations, is already causing more problems than it solves.
Recession isn’t sustainable or healthy either. The positive, sustainable alternative is a steady state economy.
One of the preconditions of a steady state economy is getting rid of our interest bearing debt based monetary system.
It just so happens that TPTB like this system and are going to keep it around as long as possible.
Seven billion is simply never going to happen!
Just to annoy the angry men who attack, I will say that I am pretty much in agreement with Garth George. It’s true, I am, I have to say so, and that he’s a good guy. He cares about people, and not just their physical jerks and satisfactions!
What world have you been living on? Because this one hit 7 billion last month.
That’s because you’re as stupid.
He’s an idiot who promotes stuff that is completely wrong which causes Bad Things and isn’t willing to learn that he’s wrong.
This, in association with my immediately preceding sentence, is why The road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.
You mean Vicky32 is being serious? I thought he/she was joking and undertaking a dim-witted attempt at sarcasm.
lolz Vicky32 is clearly living back in the late 70’s.
He he! Or perhaps even a throw back to the Mesozoic Era.
Hi there
Only just came on this exchange. As someone who read here for years before commenting, I have (possibly had) a lot of respect for your views and those of the Jackal, but have also had a similar respect for those of Vicky32. While I am not a supporter of Garth George, Vicky has a right to her views , so I’m am disappointed at the personal attacks on her.
I have respect for people who are reasonably well informed and/or willing to learn. Vicky32 does have some insightful ideas but when it comes to overpopulation and Garth George her mind is closed thus she loses any respect that she may have got from the few insightful ideas she has.
Thanks a bunch, DtB… I by contrast, usually respect your views – but obviously I can’t respect your snide abuse of me! I have a “few” insightful ideas, do I? How very generous of you! Garth George is an honest and kind person, although for reasons that don’t reflect well on Standardistas, he’s a hate figure here.
“Population control” is often a euphemism. Do you believe everyone has the right to life, or do you prioritise people like you, white, educated males (even if only in your secret heart?) The problem isn’t population growth, it’s the system by which we apportion the world’s wealth. Each one of us in New Zealand, consumes much more than any given 3rd world person. If you choose to be childless, fine, that’s up to you. If you don’t, then recognise your contribution to population growth. But you have no right to say that a woman in Africa, or PNG or Samoa or even Whangarei, should stop at 1 child, simply because we may (and no one is really sure) have hit 7 billion. Do me a favour. Look at Fred Pearce’s articles in New Scientist over the past few years – he’s been waxing testerical, because population growth is slowing, and has halted in the developed world. Yet, he and others are still deeply distressed because women in Malawi or the Sudan have 5 children (many of whom won’t survive to adulthood.)
Deuto, thank you! Much appreciated… 🙂
Thank you DTB for doing exactly as I predicted! 😀 I wondered which angry man it would be, and it seems it’s you first – gthen one by one, the others…Oh and Jackal, it’s she thank you very much! If I read your blog, and I do, then you should do me the courtesy of reading (not skimming) my posts…
Colonial Viper, the late 70s were hell on earth. Just saying.
I loathe and distrust the Greens. They’re all middle-class kiddies, and whether they prioritise gay marriage, abortion and euthanasia over real left issues, remains to be seen. One doesn’t have to have one’s head in the evil 1970s, to oppose carefree murder… as for gay marriage, why is this even an issue? Why do all gay people want to advertise their orientation? We straight people generally don’t go around announcing that we’re not gay.
Jackal, I thought you’d have been happy that George mentions your issue, alcohol! That’s what I mean by saying that he cares about people – which he does. That’s why he isn’t happy with euthanasia and wholesale abortion… Simple really!
Well it is full steam ahead with (partial) asset sales with Might River confirmed as the first of the blocks just a day after the swearing in of the new government:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6144005/Asset-sales-go-ahead-Mighty-River-first
and
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10773366
And on the media front – Guyon is off to TV3
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10773371
Part time work ‘good for mothers’ states the headline of the article taken from the telegraph group ltd in today’s herald. A neat little headline that conveys the impression that this is a simple issue with an obvious solution, get those lazy mothers working dammit, it’s good for them after all.
But is that really the conclusion or the main thrust of the study in the journal of family psychology that prompted the article?
Part time work for the mothers studied did help reduce the incidence of depression and also, or as a result, the mothers appeared more sensitive with their children and were more able or more inclined to provide ‘learning opportunities such as taking children on outings and providing lessons or membership of clubs’ – of course lessons and clubs are a great way to keep kids looked after while you are working too…
A crucial piece of information has not been included in the original telegraph article or has not been sought out by the Herald – namely the age of the children when the mothers went to work. Given all the debate in NZ about this issue it is exceedingly poor journalism to not provide some this context and to help make this information useful to the discussion here.
One of the most important conclusions of the study was the criticism of employers:
“employers tend to use part time work as a money saving strategy and to consider part time employees as both expendable and not worthy of investment through the provision of benefits, training, or career advancement. Since part time work seems to contribute to the strength and wellbeing of families it would be beneficial to employers [and to the employee] if they provide finge benefits, at least proportionally, to part time employees as well as offer them career ladders through training and promotion.”
The headline should perhaps have been ’employers hurt families by exploiting part time workers’…It is clear that part time work for mothers is not a miracle cure all, it can be helpful but these benefits should not come at the cost of being treated as a disposable commodity by employers – to do so limits the potential value of the work to both mother, baby and employer.
The highly emotive and factually unsupported ‘breeding for a business’ retoric here in NZ shifts all the responsibility and all of the blame onto the mothers. This study shows the inherent flaw in this politically expedient but morally reprehensible dog whistle. The fact that the herald trumpets the myopic and misleading ‘part time work good for mothers’ speaks volumes about it clear agenda – not to inform or enlighten but as an apologist for the ‘work will set you free’ (but dont expect us to help or reward you fairly) mentality of the National party and is big business cohorts.
See Monbiot’s article linked above for this kind of reporting on the less well off in the UK. Same kind of reporting.
Just received this email from a friend – I didn’t even know this was going on! News blackout?
Over 100 workers have been locked out from the CPM Rangitikei plant for 2 months by a vicious employer trying to starve them into accepting huge pay cuts and unacceptable changes to terms and conditions. Their union, the New Zealand Meatworkers Union, has requested the Employment Relations Authority to provide facilitation services.
To learn more and to send a message to ANZCO Foods urging the company to enter into facilitation and demanding an end to the lockout and a return to the bargaining table, click here.
Ron Oswald
General Secretary, IUF
International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers’ Associations (IUF)
8, rampe du Pont-Rouge
1213 Petit Lancy, Switzerland
Tel: +41 22 793 22 33
Fax: +41 22 793 22 38
website: http://www.iuf.org
Support locked-out CMP workers tomorrow
Workers locked out because won’t take 25% pay cut
[deleted]
http://tinyurl.com/757yz46
[lprent: I cut that back to what it should have been for both reading and legal. Next one that I have to do will get trashed. Next one I see that is copyright material that can cause us legal problems will result in a ban. ]
Please don’t copy and paste entire articles. Put the link and excerpt a small but relevant section.
Actually it’s the comment thread below the article that’s as equally chilling as the article.
Because there is every possibility that this is the ‘methane catastrophe’ that has been long feared. I know the deniers called it ‘scaremongering’… but here is a research vessel reporting exactly what was predicted. If this is confirmed, and there is little reason to think it won’t be, then all hell has probably just broken loose…slowly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis
Drill baby, drill…
news today.
kweewee says mighty river power first to go.
thank god kweewee is a nitwit and the next Labour government wil have to go to the trouble of reversing all their right wing nutbar policies.
how much will kweewee be worth then after the invisble hand of the market gives him and his cronies a big fat slap?
Legal liability for oil spills
Last week, Transport minister Steven Joyce said the cost of the oil cleanup from the Rena disaster hit $19.5 million… and he expects the cost, and the salvage operation, to continue for some months.
Over 350 tonnes of oil as well as other toxic chemicals spilled into the ocean from the grounded cargo ship Rena… in my opinion $19.5 million a vastly inaccurate figure concerning the true cost of the cleanup and salvage operation.
[…]
The National Government failed to increase legal liability under the Bunker Convention, and liability for the Rena disaster is capped at $12.1 million. That means the New Zealand taxpayer will pay for any costs over and above that comparatively tiny cap.
Based on the Institute for Maritime Studies costings for oil spills from ships… that’s potentially NZ$248 million above the liability cap. You can therefore see why Steven Joyce would want to minimize the cost, being that it was National’s decision to ignore any proper legislation, even when they were alerted to the issue on many occasions…
Has anyone read Garth George today ,He is sounding like a disciple of the Charter school followers. I’m also wondering just where he gets his extreem Right-wing views from . George’s dangerous ideas are just what we will be having if ACT/ National are allowed to bring in Charter Schools.
s
Idiot/Savant has answered your question: Churnalism from Garth George
I noted this morning that an iconic NZer passed away. Carmen was 75 years old and I can recall seeing her in Cuba Mall around 1970. Carmen will be known for being the keeper of secrets, being an entertainer, her political ambitions, and most of all for breaking down sexual stereo type thinking which liberated marginalised against groups.
Peter Dunne this evening on selling Mighty River Power and the two main issues – first, keeping the shares in NZ hands and second, keeping the 51% “control”. He waffles interminably with absolutely zero substance. We are supposed to rely on Dunne’s “I think …” etc. No facts. No legislation. No belts and braces. Just Dunne’s weak-arsed opinion and warming words. Tell me people – how far, in the world of commerce, do opinion and warming words go when there are no belts and braces??
Answer: nowhere. In fact, worse than that because if in commerce one goes into a deal with just opinion and warming words you get laughed at (out of sight) and go backwards. Fast.
Thanks Dunne, you are such a benefit to NZ.
The question is how the markets are going to perform?
Volatility in the markets is a given: fluctuations result in both buyers and sellers and one of the driving factors behind this transaction is imbalances in wealth. We know that there are vast sums of international capital sloshing around looking for a secure home and that a reckoning is coming.
My concern is will investers be subjected to a roller coaster ride of fluctuating share price that has more to do with a market that is in it’s death throes than it does with the inherent value of the asset?
Those best positioned to weather such a storm are those with very deep and very patient pockets – these are not qualities that the majority of ‘mum and dad’ investors possess – the result is a transfer of ownership, on terms which may not be anything at all like a lolly scramble.
Why on earth anyone would even consider ‘floating’ an asset on the share market at this time is beyond me. There is so much funny money out there/ structural problems in the global economy that only a fool would expose a tangible essential asset like power generation to the uncertainty of abstract valuation via the markets.
You would think that after 27 years in Parliament that Dunne may have learnt something about politics. The man is clueless as he can single handedly stop the sale of strategic assets and he is so gullible to trust Key.
Shame on you Dunne and I would say this to your face next time I am in Johnsonville.
National’s privatization propaganda
For Nick Smith and Tony Ryall to again claim Treasury has confirmed that assets will remain in New Zealand hands is complete and unadulterated bullshit!
Can’t confirm it and cannot find it but someone told me that the banksters are going to get a 100 mil for their part in selling Mighty River Power. Does anybody know about this and is it the true?
Likely to be more than that. Here’s the relevant questions for aural answers:
Thanks for that, that is utter disgusting. I can see all Key’s spiv mates fighting over themselves to make sure they are the line for the hand outs. Bloody arse holes.
Lazards Bank in Sydney is apparently getting 100 mil, funny that, why is an Aussie branch affiliate of Goldman Sachs being paid to sell NZers assets to NZers?